Catholic and curious

[DonnaB]

Hi all! I have been Catholic since I was 17 (1/2 of my life now, lol). Lately I have been feeling pulled to Orthodoxy--mostly by the fact that your faith seems to accept mysteries more readily than the Catholic faith (which seems to want to explain everything). I am also reading more about the schism and starting to wonder if I am on the wrong "side". )When I became Catholic, the first belief I accepted was the it is the one true faith, from which other faiths sprung, so of course I needed to be Catholic. ) Now I am wondering about the Orthodox faith, if I believe it is the true chruch I will have no choice but to convert.

The closest Orthodox church is 45minutes away, though, so I can't see myself investigating it much at this time. :( I am curious about how often you attend church and receive communion. Is the conversion process formalized like RICA or is it more individualized?

I have lots of questions, but I'll leave it there for now.

[Asinner]

Hi all! I have been Catholic since I was 17 (1/2 of my life now, lol). Lately I have been feeling pulled to Orthodoxy--mostly by the fact that your faith seems to accept mysteries more readily than the Catholic faith (which seems to want to explain everything). I am also reading more about the schism and starting to wonder if I am on the wrong "side". )When I became Catholic, the first belief I accepted was the it is the one true faith, from which other faiths sprung, so of course I needed to be Catholic. ) Now I am wondering about the Orthodox faith, if I believe it is the true chruch I will have no choice but to convert.

The closest Orthodox church is 45minutes away, though, so I can't see myself investigating it much at this time. :( I am curious about how often you attend church and receive communion. Is the conversion process formalized like RICA or is it more individualized?

I have lots of questions, but I'll leave it there for now.

Blessings and Peace to you. :hug:

We drove 1 hour and 15 minutes to our parish for a little over a year, so 45 minutes sounds wonderful!:thumbsup: Trust me, it is worth it.

Love,
Christina

[Michael the Iconographer]

Welcome to TAW! Feel free to ask us any questions you might have!

[Forest]

Lately I have been feeling pulled to Orthodoxy--mostly by the fact that your faith seems to accept mysteries more readily than the Catholic faith (which seems to want to explain everything)

This was one of the first things I noticed too.

[Philothei]

Welcome to TAW :) In the EO church conversion is individualized. We are formal in a sense but also informal as well. Sorry if it sounds confusing but we do not treat everyone with the same "medicine" since we believe that each person is an individual born in the image and likeness of God it is special. So although we believe the same our priests would instruct each person differently. I also know we do not have so many churches as RC has but you will find a way to attend i am sure. Taking communion once in three weeks at least is kind of a requiremnt but like I already stated it depends on your spiritual father or guide.

Again welcome, and pray that God direct you in your journey.

God bless,
Philothei

[kamikat]

Welcome to TAW, Donna! There are many here in TAW that have come to Orthodoxy from the Roman Catholic church, myself included. Feel free to ask questions and get to know us. I think 45 minutes is probably the average commute around here. I typically drive about 35 minutes on a Sunday. We are encouraged to attend church and receive communion every week and other holy days. While we don't classify missing Divine Liturgy as a mortal sin (we don't do mortal and venial classification), it is expected. The conversion process is individualized and it depends on the parish. Some parishes have formal classes, some just have the convert meet with the priest on a regular basis. The best thing to do would be to call the priest at the local parish and speak with him.

[Michael the Iconographer]

Kamikat is right. I drive about 30 minutes to go to Divine Liturgy and did the same when I lived in Ohio. Feel free to take a read of the conversion stories thread. You will find that many of us converted from Catholicism, as Kaimkat and others have pointed out.

[DonnaB]

Thank you all for your help!

Are children accepted in your churches? (I hope this isn't a dumb question, it just sounds even more solemn than Catholic Mass, I wasn't sure if the toddlers were sent to another place!) Are there any good basic sources of information?

[GenkiGirl]

Hey DonnaB, welcome to TAW!

One of the first things I noticed when I attended an Orthodox church for the first time was that not only are children accepted, they are cherished in the worship. In our church children are always involved in the services, meaning they are present from the very youngest of age; there is no "children's church" or "cry room" for them to be shuffled off to so as not to disturb the adults. Instead, kids are crawling all over the floor, helping moms and dads light candles, kissing icons, singing in the choir, and even working as alter boys (the 3 year olds are so cute!). I found it difficult at first to know whose kids belonged to what parents because the church as a whole looks after the kids, picking them up when they're fussy and keeping them from knocking over candle stands, and bringing them up for communion and such. Everytime I bring my daughter to church (she's just a couple months old) someone asks to hold her, and it's the same with all the other kids too.

I talked to my priest about this when I was first learning about Orthodoxy and he explained that the Orthodox mindset is that children should always be present and active in the services as much as they are able, and that is how they "become Orthodox" themselves, by experiencing it firsthand, not by being shuffled off to a Sunday school room to be taught about Orthodoxy. I thought that was pretty cool.

[Anhelyna]

Toddlers are very very welcome I can assure you . I speak for ECs here as well . Remember our wee ones receive Communion at Baptism - and may receive thereafter - so they get used to coming to Church for Services - and there's plenty for them to do - kissing Icons etc :)

[eoe]

Lately I have been feeling pulled to Orthodoxy--mostly by the fact that your faith seems to accept mysteries more readily than the Catholic faith (which seems to want to explain everything).This was one of the things that drew me towards Orthodoxy as well. No clumsy explanations and no fear of simply saying "We don't know"
Now I am wondering about the Orthodox faith, if I believe it is the true chruch I will have no choice but to convert.It is simply a matter of time then. Glory to Jesus Christ that he draws another near to him.

The closest Orthodox church is 45minutes away, though, so I can't see myself investigating it much at this time. :( I am curious about how often you attend church and receive communion.I don't know what area you are in but here in Atlanta it is a very normal thing to have a 45min-1hour commute to work. How much more important is going to Church than going to work?

Sorry - no sympathy on this one. There are people that drive 2+ hours to get to church. Have a schismatic church around the corner is no reason to avoid going to the real thing that is farther away.

Is the conversion process formalized like RICA or is it more individualized? It is very much individual. We are all broken in different ways and have different levels of knowledge and misconception so a personal approach in this case is appropriate.

I have lots of questions, but I'll leave it there for now.I look forward to hearing them. Feel free to let loose on the litany =D

May God guide you.

[DonnaB]

I don't know what area you are in but here in Atlanta it is a very normal thing to have a 45min-1hour commute to work. How much more important is going to Church than going to work?

Sorry - no sympathy on this one. There are people that drive 2+ hours to get to church. Have a schismatic church around the corner is no reason to avoid going to the real thing that is farther away.



I did not mean to sound like I am complaining, but it seems like people took it that way. There is more to our situation that I was not going to get into but now I feel like I have to.

DH is not Catholic and only attends chruch (with me) sporadically. In addition, he now has a job that requires him to work on the weekends. I take our (2 yr old)daughter to Mass with me. It is difficult to travel distances with her, even an hour or so because of her metabolic disorder. She has to eat very frequently because her body cannot metabolize fats and must depend on the sugar in her bloodstream to keep going. It will be a little easier when she is older, but right now, when she is awake she needs to eat every couple of hours. It is difficult to get her to eat in the car, so we need to stop. The Orthodox church near us is in a pretty dangerous city, and between here and there there are not many places to stop off. From what I've heard, Orthodox services (or do you call them Masses?) are 1-1.5 hours long, add in 1.5 hours of driving, plus allowing for traffic, this would be a minimum of a 3.5 hour trip. Again, not impossible, but very difficult if DD has a night of resisting food (like last night). (There are Sundays when it is a major feat to get DD to eat enough so I can get to Mass at our country church 5 miles away.)

I was basically asking the question because I was wondering if your faith requires weekly attendance. I was also wondering because, in the case of the conversion process, I rarely have an evening or afternoon to do anything without my daughter. My husband works a full-time job and runs a business so he is gone about 90 hours a week. I do not choose faith based on convience, but I thought it was a reasonable question to ask so that I can think about the commitment involved.

I'm sorry to go on, but frankly, the idea that I was complaining about a drive is offensive to me, You do not know anything about me or my situation, I did not go into the detail like I did above precisely because I did NOT want to come across as a whiner. I am feeling drawn to the Orthodox church for some reason, and these posts won't stop me from inquiring further, but at this point I can't help but wonder if the pull to inquire further is only to solidify my Catholic faith.

[Shubunkin]

I did not mean to sound like I am complaining, but it seems like people took it that way. There is more to our situation that I was not going to get into but now I feel like I have to.

DH is not Catholic and only attends chruch (with me) sporadically. In addition, he now has a job that requires him to work on the weekends. I take our (2 yr old)daughter to Mass with me. It is difficult to travel distances with her, even an hour or so because of her metabolic disorder. She has to eat very frequently because her body cannot metabolize fats and must depend on the sugar in her bloodstream to keep going. It will be a little easier when she is older, but right now, when she is awake she needs to eat every couple of hours. It is difficult to get her to eat in the car, so we need to stop. The Orthodox church near us is in a pretty dangerous city, and between here and there there are not many places to stop off. From what I've heard, Orthodox services (or do you call them Masses?) are 1-1.5 hours long, add in 1.5 hours of driving, plus allowing for traffic, this would be a minimum of a 3.5 hour trip. Again, not impossible, but very difficult if DD has a night of resisting food (like last night). (There are Sundays when it is a major feat to get DD to eat enough so I can get to Mass at our country church 5 miles away.)

I was basically asking the question because I was wondering if your faith requires weekly attendance. I was also wondering because, in the case of the conversion process, I rarely have an evening or afternoon to do anything without my daughter. My husband works a full-time job and runs a business so he is gone about 90 hours a week. I do not choose faith based on convience, but I thought it was a reasonable question to ask so that I can think about the commitment involved.

I'm sorry to go on, but frankly, the idea that I was complaining about a drive is offensive to me, You do not know anything about me or my situation, I did not go into the detail like I did above precisely because I did NOT want to come across as a whiner. I am feeling drawn to the Orthodox church for some reason, and these posts won't stop me from inquiring further, but at this point I can't help but wonder if the pull to inquire further is only to solidify my Catholic faith.
Sorry to hear about your daughter. Our Matins or Orthros service is about an hour, and the Divine Liturgy (we do not call them Mass), is about two hours. It varies from each parish, so I'm told. We serve things to eat after Divine Liturgy and fellowship with each other, so the food is right there.

Hope that answers some questions. :)

[MariaRegina]

Trust in God.

Sometimes there are parish missions that are in your neighorhood. Ask and maybe you will be surprised.

[MariaRegina]

I forgot to add:

The Orthodox Church is a Holy Church where many unsung miracles take place.

When I was a catechumen especially, I would smell the sweet heavenly odor of a bouquet of flowers in the dead of winter when no flowers were around.

Often, when I am praying, I experience the sweet odor of sanctity when I invoke the Holy Saints and pray to the Theotokos. It is apparent to me that Our Lord loves to draw people to Him through the Theotokos, His Mother.

She is our Protectress and our help in times of need. Pray to her and be assured that I will also pray to her for you and your child.

Please try to go to the Parakleisis service this August in honor of the Theotokos. From August 1 to August 15, we have powerful prayers to the Theotokos. They are prayers for healing. Parakleisis means supplication.

[kamikat]

It is not unusual to see little ones snacking during the Liturgy. If your daughter has a medical condition, it would be perfectly ok for her to munch on cheerios or whatever. As for the time for your self, if you talk to the local priest, I'm sure he will figure out a way to do it. My husband is not a Christian and never goes to church with me. He also works 60-80hrs per week and travels for work. Father was great about working around my schedule. Also, you might be able to meet with the priest in a Sunday school room, so your child could play with toys while you talked with the priest. You'll never know unless you call the priest.
I'm sorry if we came across harshly, don't let what we say hinder your inquirery.

[eoe]

I was basically asking the question because I was wondering if your faith requires weekly attendance.No it is not. In fact there are special reader's services (http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/horologion.htm) (see the typica) that you can read in your own home when you are unable to attend. You will want to get to the Liturgy as often as possible though.

As far as your little one goes - you will be very happy to learn that during that 1.5 hour service people come in and out all the time and it is no big deal at all for you to step outside for a while to give her something to sustain her. People go in and out all the time and it is a non-event.

Forgive me if I offended you but you have to understand that it is quite common for people to use a 30-45 minute drive as an excuse not to visit an Orthodox Church. Given the wording of your OP that is what it sounded like.

So... For the record. You do not *have to* attend each and every Sunday but you will likely want to. When you do attend - you will have ample opportunity to tend to your child as she requires. You will find that the Orthodox Church is intensely child friendly and that we bend over backwards to help in any way possible.

A bit of advice - when you do visit for the first time - make sure you come early so that you have an opportunity to scope out the area. Often in our churches one area will be especially kid friendly and may include liturgical coloring books and crayons and provide for an easy exit to the crying room.

[xristos.anesti]

DonnaB,

not many here have Pastoral Education nor rights of the office (I am certainly not one of the ones who do); we are laity who like to write on the Internet Forum sharing what we know - and sometimes what we do not.

Sister, I would suggest for you to call the priest and have a chat with him - it is his job to think of the best way and I am sure he will.


Many years.

[NyssaTheHobbit]

Our parish members are so scattered around the surrounding counties that many of them only attend on certain days. For example, many will only attend the Sunday services (we alternate Sundays and Saturdays because the priest has another parish). The nearest Orthodox churches to mine are 45 min - 1 hour drives, so when the priest is on vacation and we have no services, I stay at home. Going that far away would be impossible, when hubby has his own church and my son is a 3-year-old Dennis the Menace.

[_Shannon_]

No it is not. In fact there are special reader's services (http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/horologion.htm) (see the typica) that you can read in your own home when you are unable to attend. You will want to get to the Liturgy as often as possible though.

As far as your little one goes - you will be very happy to learn that during that 1.5 hour service people come in and out all the time and it is no big deal at all for you to step outside for a while to give her something to sustain her. People go in and out all the time and it is a non-event.

Forgive me if I offended you but you have to understand that it is quite common for people to use a 30-45 minute drive as an excuse not to visit an Orthodox Church. Given the wording of your OP that is what it sounded like.

So... For the record. You do not *have to* attend each and every Sunday but you will likely want to. When you do attend - you will have ample opportunity to tend to your child as she requires. You will find that the Orthodox Church is intensely child friendly and that we bend over backwards to help in any way possible.

A bit of advice - when you do visit for the first time - make sure you come early so that you have an opportunity to scope out the area. Often in our churches one area will be especially kid friendly and may include liturgical coloring books and crayons and provide for an easy exit to the crying room.
Also you can talk to the priest about these things, if you are able to talk to him before attending Divine Liturgy. I felt so, so comfortable being there with my youngest son. The priest's wife came and found me (she heard a baby crying and thought it might be mine) in the middle of the service so she could show me where the nursery was. Other people helped me know when to move as the priest processed around with incense (I was in the very back). People came in and out with their kids-no one gave them 'the look'---it was great!

I was telling my husband that one of the very intriguing things about it was the juxtaposition of the very traditional, the seriousness of the liturgy--and the very relaxed atmosphere in regards to postures and actions (some people are crossing themselves in one way others in another way- some at some times others at other times-some people stand through the entire liturgy-some are unable to do so and so sit down- people are coming and going).

[Mary of Bethany]

Yes - isn't it interesting how the Divine Liturgy is so beautiful and so reverent, yet at the same time it isn't "stuffy" or stiffly formal. It's very much "people friendly". :)

[EmperorConstantine]

Divine Liturgy has the right amount of order to it without being dictatorship-esque, yet not free-for-all to the point of mosh pit.

[_Shannon_]

Yes - isn't it interesting how the Divine Liturgy is so beautiful and so reverent, yet at the same time it isn't "stuffy" or stiffly formal. It's very much "people friendly". :)
My eyes are welling with tears as I write- it's just how I imagine people coming to hear Jesus preach during His time before the crucifixion...

[HisKid1973]

My eyes are welling with tears as I write- it's just how I imagine people coming to hear Jesus preach during His time before the crucifixion...


Him/her who Christ sets free is free indeed

[DonnaB]

Wo. Just wow. I am amazed by the descriptions of how children are accepted :) I am so excited to go now! I've always liked that the Catholic Church keeps children in the church rather than shuffle them off to a "jr. church". However, I often get "the look" from other church members when DD acts like a two year old (which she is). She is generally pretty quiet, but if I bring a juice sippy for her to drink (partly because of her disorder, partly because it keeps her busy) I get looks, if her book falls on the pew I get looks, etc.

At Christmas Mass she did great until she saw our priest at the end of the aisle. She was soooo excited to see him and took off running to him :blush: , laughing and waving widly. (This does not happen often, it was a momentary lapse on my part) You should have seen the looks that day!

I'll never understand how a faith (and I love being Catholic, please don't get me wrong) that encourages us to bear children and choose life, can be so condemning toward children in church.

[Ioan cel Nou]

Wo. Just wow. I am amazed by the descriptions of how children are accepted :) I am so excited to go now! I've always liked that the Catholic Church keeps children in the church rather than shuffle them off to a "jr. church". However, I often get "the look" from other church members when DD acts like a two year old (which she is). She is generally pretty quiet, but if I bring a juice sippy for her to drink (partly because of her disorder, partly because it keeps her busy) I get looks, if her book falls on the pew I get looks, etc.

The atitude towards children is one of the biggest and best differences between Orthodoxy and the church I was raised in, though I'm ex-Protestant myself. It really is wonderful. My children actually like to go to the Liturgy, something I couldn't have imagined back when I was a Protestant.


At Christmas Mass she did great until she saw our priest at the end of the aisle. She was soooo excited to see him and took off running to him :blush: , laughing and waving widly. (This does not happen often, it was a momentary lapse on my part) You should have seen the looks that day!

I've possibly said it before, but one day my son (I think he was about 3 at the time) followed Father around the church with a stuffed giraffe. As Father censed the people, he immitated him swinging the giraffe by the head like a censor. I was mortified and I was expecting disapproving looks that time, but all I saw were amused smiles and afterwards it seemed that I was the only person bothered by it. Everyone else was just happy to see the enthusiasm to participate in one so young.


I'll never understand how a faith (and I love being Catholic, please don't get me wrong) that encourages us to bear children and choose life, can be so condemning toward children in church.
I can't comment on Roman Catholicism as I've never been one, but I do generally find that westerners, when it comes to church, often reflect the old attitude of 'a child should be seen but not heard' which is sad. Give me a pew-free Orthodox church any day, where the children can wander a little, light candles, venerate icons, even cense people with soft toys! It might get a little noisier, but at least they are where they should be, in Church worshipping God, Who I'm quite sure must understand and forgive any little distractions.

James

[EmperorConstantine]

I can't comment on Roman Catholicism as I've never been one, but I do generally find that westerners, when it comes to church, often reflect the old attitude of 'a child should be seen but not heard' which is sad. Give me a pew-free Orthodox church any day, where the children can wander a little, light candles, venerate icons, even cense people with soft toys! It might get a little noisier, but at least they are where they should be, in Church worshipping God, Who I'm quite sure must understand and forgive any little distractions.

James
Don't forget: if you're male you can play with fire! ;):D

[xristos.anesti]

Then little children were brought to Him that He might put His hands on them and pray, but the disciples rebuked them. But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven.” (Mt. 19)

[xristos.anesti]

Triple post

[xristos.anesti]

as above

[Anhelyna]

But why worry about 3 posts ? :D

We do everything in threes :D :D

[xristos.anesti]

^_^

Thats the wisdom behind my moves.

^_^

[WarriorAngel]

Wo. Just wow. I am amazed by the descriptions of how children are accepted :) I am so excited to go now! I've always liked that the Catholic Church keeps children in the church rather than shuffle them off to a "jr. church". However, I often get "the look" from other church members when DD acts like a two year old (which she is). She is generally pretty quiet, but if I bring a juice sippy for her to drink (partly because of her disorder, partly because it keeps her busy) I get looks, if her book falls on the pew I get looks, etc.

At Christmas Mass she did great until she saw our priest at the end of the aisle. She was soooo excited to see him and took off running to him :blush: , laughing and waving widly. (This does not happen often, it was a momentary lapse on my part) You should have seen the looks that day!

I'll never understand how a faith (and I love being Catholic, please don't get me wrong) that encourages us to bear children and choose life, can be so condemning toward children in church.

I never get looks. I have gotten chuckles for my kids behavior.

Only one CC has ever made me feel like an interloper.
Eh, I didnt mind. I wasn't there to impress anyone. SO be it.

I have gone to the cry room many times in my life though. ^_^ ;)

[_Shannon_]

I never get looks. I have gotten chuckles for my kids behavior.

Only one CC has ever made me feel like an interloper.
Eh, I didnt mind. I wasn't there to impress anyone. SO be it.

I have gone to the cry room many times in my life though. ^_^ ;) For me the experience of DL was unlike any I have ever had in all my years of daily MAss attendance at a whole bunch of different parishes---even those where the congregation was child friendly. It was a completely different experience...one I don't really have any other way to describe than my previous posts in this thread.

[kamikat]

Rose, I totally agree! The openness toward children is one of the things that kept me coming back. Did you get a chance to sit up front? Once I was able to witness Father administering the Eucharist to the little ones, I KNEW that I had to become Orthodox. My biggest regret is not converting when they were still young enough to not put up a fight. I don't know when, or if, they'll ever join the Church.

[Mary of Bethany]

My eyes are welling with tears as I write- it's just how I imagine people coming to hear Jesus preach during His time before the crucifixion...

I belong to a parish with no pews, which is especially good for children, I think. It gives them a lot of freedom.

But the other good thing that your statement reminded me of is, once when I was at the cathedral in Dallas and Archbishop DMITRI began the homily, he beckoned for everyone to move close, to gather around him and listen, and I too was reminded of Jesus preaching on the hillsides with the crowd gathering around him. It was a wonderful moment!

And in my parish, when Father begins the homily, we do the same thing. I love it.

Mary