Is this better?

[SaintGeorge]

A lot of you were talking about not wanting me to show the Orthodox faith icon until I became a Catechumen. Others said differently, some mentioned stages of conversion I didn't even know existed. So here's what I'm going to do.

I'm showing the faith icon, but putting in my custom title as "Eastern Orthodox: Larval Stage." I figured I'd do a pun on the whole contagious Christian thing, and have my "disease" progress as I get closer to Chrismation. (tongue in cheek)

[Rowan]

I haven't really been involved with all the hubbub about it but I think your way is clever :)

[icxn]

May you become a beautiful butterfly and roam aloft to the heights of mystical contemplation.

An Ant nimbly running about in the sunshine in search of food came
across a Chrysalis that was very near its time of change. The
Chrysalis moved its tail, and thus attracted the attention of the Ant,
who then saw for the first time that it was alive. "Poor, pitiable
animal!" cried the Ant disdainfully. "What a sad fate is yours!
While I can run hither and thither, at my pleasure, and, if I wish,
ascend the tallest tree, you lie imprisoned here in your shell, with
power only to move a joint or two of your scaly tail." The Chrysalis
heard all this, but did not try to make any reply. A few days after,
when the Ant passed that way again, nothing but the shell remained.
Wondering what had become of its contents, he felt himself suddenly
shaded and fanned by the gorgeous wings of a beautiful Butterfly.
"Behold in me," said the Butterfly, "your much-pitied friend! Boast
now of your powers to run and climb as long as you can get me to
listen." So saying, the Butterfly rose in the air, and, borne along
and aloft on the summer breeze, was soon lost to the sight of the
Ant forever. - Aesop Fables

[SaintGeorge]

I even made an avatar to go with it.

[Xpycoctomos]

I think we should encourage people to wait until they catechumens (meaning, under the direct and consistent spiritual care of an Orthodox priest that agrees that they will become Orthodox - even if a date is not set yet). However, we have no common expectation so I don't really think people can fault you for using it if indeed you have decided this is what you are going to do. We can't fault you simply becuase as of now we have no standard as to what exactly the icon means. That's why I would like to see a catechumen/inquirer icon and then the solid blue one just means yhou are already Chrismated.

At this point, I personally have no problem with you wearing it if this is where you feel you are.

John

[ClementofRome]

I think we should encourage people to wait until they catechumens (meaning, under the direct and consistent spiritual care of an Orthodox priest that agrees that they will become Orthodox - even if a date is not set yet). However, we have no common expectation so I don't really think people can fault you for using it if indeed you have decided this is what you are going to do. We can't fault you simply becuase as of now we have no standard as to what exactly the icon means. That's why I would like to see a catechumen/inquirer icon and then the solid blue one just means yhou are already Chrismated.

At this point, I personally have no problem with you wearing it if this is where you feel you are.

John

Dear John (yea, I know....it is not THAT kind of letter),

Would you think it improper of me, a catechumen in a holding pattern, to wear a three-bar cross around my neck, or place one on the wall of my office or in my home?

I am just curious as to how this would be perceived. Actually, I direct the question to John, but anyone is free to answer.

Forgive me.

Clem

[Xpycoctomos]

Dear John (yea, I know....it is not THAT kind of letter),

Would you think it improper of me, a catechumen in a holding pattern, to wear a three-bar cross around my neck, or place one on the wall of my office or in my home?

I am just curious as to how this would be perceived. Actually, I direct the question to John, but anyone is free to answer.

Forgive me.

Clem
No, in real life, not at all. In fact I would personally encourage it as long as you believed and wished to live what the cross represented. But the icons here are used a bit differently, as an identifier so people know where you are coming from. Right now we don't offer any good option to people in the catechumen/inquirer stage so that others can clearly see that it is their full intention to be Orthodox but they aren't quite... Orthodox yet. I do think this is important. Not so much to get mad but I think it would help people.

John

[Akathist]

No, in real life, not at all. In fact I would personally encourage it as long as you believed and wished to live what the cross represented. But the icons here are used a bit differently, as an identifier so people know where you are coming from. Right now we don't offer any good option to people in the catechumen/inquirer stage so that others can clearly see that it is their full intention to be Orthodox but they aren't quite... Orthodox yet. I do think this is important. Not so much to get mad but I think it would help people.

John

I agree with what you said John.

Further, we have a definition of who is an Eastern Orthodox on this website. I spent the last 30 minutes desperately trying to find it and couldn't .

I know it clarifies who is EO related specifically to the faith icon. From my memory it says something about one able to use the EO faith symbol if they are in Communion with the rest of the Eastern Orthodox Church.

To be in communion means to be able to receive the Eucharist.

Therefore, it is my opinion that the faith icon is for those who are able to receive the Eucharist in an EO parish.

This is important because of what John says. We have too many people who come to CF who are not EO and who choose that symbol and who say the wierdest things about what we believe. This can discourage someone who might be interested in the EO church from continued examination. We have had way too much of that over the years.

Someone with an EO faith symbol who is not fully EO is also not being fully truthful. They are not EO yet. I suggest they hide their faith symbol and put "EO inquirer" or "EO catechumen" as their subtitle under their name.

[Shubunkin]

A lot of you were talking about not wanting me to show the Orthodox faith icon until I became a Catechumen. Others said differently, some mentioned stages of conversion I didn't even know existed. So here's what I'm going to do.

I'm showing the faith icon, but putting in my custom title as "Eastern Orthodox: Larval Stage." I figured I'd do a pun on the whole contagious Christian thing, and have my "disease" progress as I get closer to Chrismation. (tongue in cheek)
Jeff, that is an excellent way of doing it!! Amusing too.... :)

[Matrona]

Would you think it improper of me, a catechumen in a holding pattern, to wear a three-bar cross around my neck, or place one on the wall of my office or in my home?

Speaking for myself, I would be happy to see you do that. :clap:

[_Shannon_]

Esran,

Why don't you not worry so much about a computer icon-- and just abide where you are at on your spiritual journey, which has been one with huge swings of change back and forth over very short periods of time?? Go slowly, focus on your relationship with Jesus, and try not to worry about labelling where you are in your relationship--just be there--wherever there is.....

[InnerPhyre]

Orthodoxy is not about an icon on a computer screen. Don't waste so much energy worrying about such futile external nonsense.




Oh and your avatar is fantastic.

[Philothei]

I agree that a faith icon should not be given to all who are not yet orthodox and inquierers should not use it. On the other hand I do not like to make a fuss over it. God brings the people who want to be orthodox, not us or this site. If we believe in God and our Church everything else does not matter. We should pray for all these good people that our Lord brings to us and their salvation. By the way I think your avatar is funny, although I do not like worms (yuck), it carries the message through...:)

God bless,
Philothei

[eoe]

Do you plan on ever entering a Roman Catholic parish again? Receiving the sacraments there?

[xristos.anesti]

I do not see who here has the right to decide who will put an "orthodox icon" next to their name.

If you feel that you should have it - go for it, if you feel that you shouldn't - same.

It is not the icon that makes us Orthodox or heterodox - it is what we have between God and us - and God knows that; and we know that - no Orthodox icon shall save us or no lack of it condemn us.

Do what you do when you do it - making sure it is for the glory of God and salvation of souls - remembering that no act, word or thought shall go without being judged in that day.

Orthodox Church is not a Country Club. All are welcome.

Even those uncouth people, peasants, vulgar worms, slaves to sin – like me.

Many years.

[Xpycoctomos]

Orthodoxy is not about an icon on a computer screen. Don't waste so much energy worrying about such futile external nonsense.




Oh and your avatar is fantastic.
regardless of if you and I hold the same opinion on how Geoff would be best advised, I think we all can agree with this in the grand scheme of things. Great post.

[Xpycoctomos]

I do not see who here has the right to decide who will put an "orthodox icon" next to their name.

If you feel that you should have it - go for it, if you feel that you shouldn't - same.

It is not the icon that makes us Orthodox or heterodox - it is what we have between God and us - and God knows that; and we know that - no Orthodox icon shall save us or no lack of it condemn us.

Agreed. It doesn't make us anything.

Do what you do when you do it - making sure it is for the glory of God and salvation of souls - remembering that no act, word or thought shall go without being judged in that day.

Orthodox Church is not a Country Club. All are welcome.

Even those uncouth people, peasants, vulgar worms, slaves to sin – like me.

Many years.

But see this iskn't really the issue at hand. The issue is, what does the icon mean here in CF. When a consistent, specific and generally understood meaning is not applied to any symbol then it's usefulness is threatened.

What does the Orthodox icon mean? All of those little icons up there mean something and it is nt about what it means to the user so much as what the user wants others to know about them. We knwo the two rings means that the person is married... not engaged, but married. We know that the kids there means how many sons and daughters they have, not how many they want to have. We know the number up there represents their age, not what age they like the best. Now, of course some can use these differently either to lie or just be funny (Hi annabel ;) and that's fine, becuase the fact is still that we have a "cultural" understood and exact meaning given to all of these little icons.

But we don't have this for the faith icon. I think this would be helped if we had a different catechumen/inquirer icon that perhaps is like the lighter blue one I have in my avatar... or anything else. It still allows them to say "hey, I'm serious about this, but no, I'm not Orthodox yet, and i pray that God's will be done and that one day I will be so".

I jsut think it offeres for clarity.

By the way, I just want to make it clear. This is not an overly IMPORTANT issue in my life. I have an opinion about it and so, I am expressing it. That does not mean that I somehow think that this is at all important to our personal spiritual lives.