Solution?

[skippys]

How about a new forum. Call it Kingdom or New Covenant Torah. This way some can still express their revelations without offending each other. This way also, there can be a resolution with honor and without prohibiting freedom of speech.

How do we get a new forum and does anyone else think this is a good idea?

[talmidim]

How about being able to share our revelations in this forum without some people getting offended?

[christianmomof3]

That is one reason that there are so many denominational groups in Christianity. People think their way is the only way and refuse to even fellowship with their fellow Chrisitans who have different points of view on things. I believe that we are all one in Christ Jesus. In Him we can fellowship and enjoy His life with one another.
When we are in Him, we should be able to have differing opinions and still be polite to one another.
:sigh:
I don't think making another forum is the answer.

[stone]

The proposals of new forums is made here:

new forums (http://www.christianforums.com/f395-suggest-new-forums.html)


***

I made a promise comeing onto staff to not discuss anything that is going on. I will keep that promise. It's annoying to see so much gossip and so many rumors going on, and unable to speak up and clear them up.

I'll just say this, if you take the Torah away from Messianic Judaism, your removeing judaism, and your leaveing yourself what mostly everyone here has chosen to move away from.

Lets keep this thread on a peaceful level folks.

[talmidim]

The proposals of new forums is made here:

new forums (http://www.christianforums.com/f395-suggest-new-forums.html)


***

I made a promise comeing onto staff to not discuss anything that is going on. I will keep that promise. It's annoying to see so much gossip and so many rumors going on, and unable to speak up and clear them up.

I'll just say this, if you take the Torah away from Messianic Judaism, your removeing judaism, and your leaveing yourself what mostly everyone here has chosen to move away from.

Lets keep this thread on a peaceful level folks.My Dear Brother Stone,

I defy you to show me where anyone has proposed taking Torah away from Messianic Judaism. That is simply not true.

[HadassahSukkot]

Why not us find a way to discuss our differences with Scripture, allowing G-d to have the Scriptures reveal itself in our walks and daily lives, and thresh out our theological upbringing and ideas and bringing clarity where we may be uncertain?

Why not instead of suggesting new ideas, we work with what we have, and find new ways to minister with each other to each other, even with our differences?

Imagine this, even some of us who are in leadership feel alienated from some of you, and from some of our own comrades-in-arms due to our halachic differences and theological differences, yet we get along, or agree to disagree...

Sometimes there is much more going on than what appears in the open areas of the forum.... and sometimes it takes being a ministering spirit of our own to find out these things.

I feel like the thing that is lacking most here is Communication amongst ourselves thereby us getting to not only know each other, but grow together and even rejoice in our differences.

I currently attend a shul (and have been for 4 years or more) that has a vast plethora of people of different theological upbringing and halachic walks, and ages, yet we all somehow mesh together and are a very tight-knit family.

I would love to see this place exactly (or as close to) my shul's example ... so it is a home away from home, with folks whose shoulders we can lean confidently on, and strive together in the fields to get the harvest sown, worked, harvested and put in the barn all together...

Those who work together, play together, pray together -- have a fufilling relationship together in the body.


I think what happens is that in times like these, we realise we are different parts of the body, and instead of rejoicing in our different functions and working together, we somehow schism off. I hate to see that.

I think Shaul said it eloquently:

1 Corinthians 12 & 13 [NLT]

12 The human body has many parts, but the many parts make up one whole body. So it is with the body of Christ. 13 Some of us are Jews, some are Gentiles,[e (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults2.php?passage1=1+Corinthians+12&book_id=53&version1=51&tp=16&c=12#fen-NLT-28607e)] some are slaves, and some are free. But we have all been baptized into one body by one Spirit, and we all share the same Spirit.[f (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults2.php?passage1=1+Corinthians+12&book_id=53&version1=51&tp=16&c=12#fen-NLT-28607f)] 14 Yes, the body has many different parts, not just one part. 15 If the foot says, “I am not a part of the body because I am not a hand,” that does not make it any less a part of the body. 16 And if the ear says, “I am not part of the body because I am not an eye,” would that make it any less a part of the body? 17 If the whole body were an eye, how would you hear? Or if your whole body were an ear, how would you smell anything?
18 But our bodies have many parts, and God has put each part just where he wants it. 19 How strange a body would be if it had only one part! 20 Yes, there are many parts, but only one body. 21 The eye can never say to the hand, “I don’t need you.” The head can’t say to the feet, “I don’t need you.”
22 In fact, some parts of the body that seem weakest and least important are actually the most necessary. 23 And the parts we regard as less honorable are those we clothe with the greatest care. So we carefully protect those parts that should not be seen, 24 while the more honorable parts do not require this special care. So God has put the body together such that extra honor and care are given to those parts that have less dignity. 25 This makes for harmony among the members, so that all the members care for each other. 26 If one part suffers, all the parts suffer with it, and if one part is honored, all the parts are glad.
27 All of you together are Christ’s body, and each of you is a part of it. 28 Here are some of the parts God has appointed for the church:
first are apostles,
second are prophets,
third are teachers,
then those who do miracles,
those who have the gift of healing,
those who can help others,
those who have the gift of leadership,
those who speak in unknown languages.
29 Are we all apostles? Are we all prophets? Are we all teachers? Do we all have the power to do miracles? 30 Do we all have the gift of healing? Do we all have the ability to speak in unknown languages? Do we all have the ability to interpret unknown languages? Of course not! 31 So you should earnestly desire the most helpful gifts.
But now let me show you a way of life that is best of all.


1 If I could speak all the languages of earth and of angels, but didn’t love others, I would only be a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I had the gift of prophecy, and if I understood all of God’s secret plans and possessed all knowledge, and if I had such faith that I could move mountains, but didn’t love others, I would be nothing. 3 If I gave everything I have to the poor and even sacrificed my body, I could boast about it;[a (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults2.php?passage1=1%20Corinthians13&book_id=53&version1=51&tp=16&c=13#fen-NLT-28628a)] but if I didn’t love others, I would have gained nothing.
4 Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud 5 or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged. 6 It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. 7 Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.
8 Prophecy and speaking in unknown languages[b (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults2.php?passage1=1%20Corinthians13&book_id=53&version1=51&tp=16&c=13#fen-NLT-28633b)] and special knowledge will become useless. But love will last forever! 9 Now our knowledge is partial and incomplete, and even the gift of prophecy reveals only part of the whole picture! 10 But when full understanding comes, these partial things will become useless.
11 When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child. But when I grew up, I put away childish things. 12 Now we see things imperfectly as in a cloudy mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity.[c (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults2.php?passage1=1%20Corinthians13&book_id=53&version1=51&tp=16&c=13#fen-NLT-28637c)] All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely.
13 Three things will last forever—faith, hope, and love—and the greatest of these is love.

[HadassahSukkot]

Probably more simply to the point, what I am trying to say is something on the same spin of the bumpersticker that I grew attached to (and still am attached to) during the disengagement:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/antsinmypants/st2.jpg
"A Jew does not expel another Jew"

We are called chaverim for a reason, and a destiny that we all share with each other... we can't get into schisms, because in schism, we alienate and expel or "divorce" as the term is also translated each other from the other one. :(

[SGM4HIM]

I believe there's enough room in the MJ forum for diversity. I'm sure many outsiders would love to see a split here..

I think no one has been in one accord until Honda introduced it in 1976 :D.
The Bible is full of examples of diversity of belief. Although feelings have been hurt here in MJ , it's definitely not as bad as the hot spots in other areas of CF!

Here's a definition in Wikipedia I found to be interesting:
Utopia (from Greek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_language): οὐ no, and τόπος, place, i.e. "no place" or "place that does not exist")

[Tishri1]

There are almost 20 forums I help encourage everyday and can I just say the ones with the most problems are the ones who have split into subforums.....its a gamble to do such a thing, a risky one at that:wave:

I would rather see us love on each other more and as HadassahSukkot said enjoy and celebrate our differences...we are not here by chance, lets see what it is ABBA is trying to teach us by bringing sooooo many different kinds of MJs together in this one place:groupray:

[Cheriann]

Why not us find a way to discuss our differences with Scripture, allowing G-d to have the Scriptures reveal itself in our walks and daily lives, and thresh out our theological upbringing and ideas and bringing clarity where we may be uncertain?

Why not instead of suggesting new ideas, we work with what we have, and find new ways to minister with each other to each other, even with our differences?

Imagine this, even some of us who are in leadership feel alienated from some of you, and from some of our own comrades-in-arms due to our halachic differences and theological differences, yet we get along, or agree to disagree...

Sometimes there is much more going on than what appears in the open areas of the forum.... and sometimes it takes being a ministering spirit of our own to find out these things.

I feel like the thing that is lacking most here is Communication amongst ourselves thereby us getting to not only know each other, but grow together and even rejoice in our differences.

I currently attend a shul (and have been for 4 years or more) that has a vast plethora of people of different theological upbringing and halachic walks, and ages, yet we all somehow mesh together and are a very tight-knit family.

I would love to see this place exactly (or as close to) my shul's example ... so it is a home away from home, with folks whose shoulders we can lean confidently on, and strive together in the fields to get the harvest sown, worked, harvested and put in the barn all together...

Those who work together, play together, pray together -- have a fufilling relationship together in the body.


I think what happens is that in times like these, we realise we are different parts of the body, and instead of rejoicing in our different functions and working together, we somehow schism off. I hate to see that.

I think Shaul said it eloquently:

1 Corinthians 12 & 13 [NLT]

12 The human body has many parts, but the many parts make up one whole body. So it is with the body of Christ. 13 Some of us are Jews, some are Gentiles,[e (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults2.php?passage1=1+Corinthians+12&book_id=53&version1=51&tp=16&c=12#fen-NLT-28607e)] some are slaves, and some are free. But we have all been baptized into one body by one Spirit, and we all share the same Spirit.[f (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults2.php?passage1=1+Corinthians+12&book_id=53&version1=51&tp=16&c=12#fen-NLT-28607f)] 14 Yes, the body has many different parts, not just one part. 15 If the foot says, “I am not a part of the body because I am not a hand,” that does not make it any less a part of the body. 16 And if the ear says, “I am not part of the body because I am not an eye,” would that make it any less a part of the body? 17 If the whole body were an eye, how would you hear? Or if your whole body were an ear, how would you smell anything?
18 But our bodies have many parts, and God has put each part just where he wants it. 19 How strange a body would be if it had only one part! 20 Yes, there are many parts, but only one body. 21 The eye can never say to the hand, “I don’t need you.” The head can’t say to the feet, “I don’t need you.”
22 In fact, some parts of the body that seem weakest and least important are actually the most necessary. 23 And the parts we regard as less honorable are those we clothe with the greatest care. So we carefully protect those parts that should not be seen, 24 while the more honorable parts do not require this special care. So God has put the body together such that extra honor and care are given to those parts that have less dignity. 25 This makes for harmony among the members, so that all the members care for each other. 26 If one part suffers, all the parts suffer with it, and if one part is honored, all the parts are glad.
27 All of you together are Christ’s body, and each of you is a part of it. 28 Here are some of the parts God has appointed for the church:
first are apostles,
second are prophets,
third are teachers,
then those who do miracles,
those who have the gift of healing,
those who can help others,
those who have the gift of leadership,
those who speak in unknown languages.
29 Are we all apostles? Are we all prophets? Are we all teachers? Do we all have the power to do miracles? 30 Do we all have the gift of healing? Do we all have the ability to speak in unknown languages? Do we all have the ability to interpret unknown languages? Of course not! 31 So you should earnestly desire the most helpful gifts.
But now let me show you a way of life that is best of all.


1 If I could speak all the languages of earth and of angels, but didn’t love others, I would only be a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I had the gift of prophecy, and if I understood all of God’s secret plans and possessed all knowledge, and if I had such faith that I could move mountains, but didn’t love others, I would be nothing. 3 If I gave everything I have to the poor and even sacrificed my body, I could boast about it;[a (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults2.php?passage1=1%20Corinthians13&book_id=53&version1=51&tp=16&c=13#fen-NLT-28628a)] but if I didn’t love others, I would have gained nothing.
4 Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud 5 or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged. 6 It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. 7 Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.
8 Prophecy and speaking in unknown languages[b (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults2.php?passage1=1%20Corinthians13&book_id=53&version1=51&tp=16&c=13#fen-NLT-28633b)] and special knowledge will become useless. But love will last forever! 9 Now our knowledge is partial and incomplete, and even the gift of prophecy reveals only part of the whole picture! 10 But when full understanding comes, these partial things will become useless.
11 When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child. But when I grew up, I put away childish things. 12 Now we see things imperfectly as in a cloudy mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity.[c (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults2.php?passage1=1%20Corinthians13&book_id=53&version1=51&tp=16&c=13#fen-NLT-28637c)] All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely.
13 Three things will last forever—faith, hope, and love—and the greatest of these is love.
Amen, Amen, Amen.:thumbsup:

[stone]

My Dear Brother Stone,

I defy you to show me where anyone has proposed taking Torah away from Messianic Judaism. That is simply not true.



no comment

[visionary]

When you look at the sanctuary and the multitude of priest positions and responsibilities, it is reflected in our relationship with Christ. Out in the outer court, you find many common priest with different tasks, from being the one who slaughters the lambs all day long and laying them on the altar, to those who was washing the flesh in the lavar all day long. There are those who take the lamb from the sinner and listen to the sinner confess His sin on the head of the lamb. There are those who offer prayer up over the offering to God. Are you starting to get the picture. These all happen in the outer court. These are all ministries we see today, and as you thought about each task, you can think of a demoniation that focusses on just that part.

Then you think about what God has in the Holy Temple and the duties inside. These provide the daily shewbread, keep the Manorah lite, and offer prayers before the altar of incense.

These are all family members who had the tasks down to their sons and their sons.

Now you are wondering what has this got to do with getting along. We are all members of a bigger body, all having different functions, understandings, and different roles to play in the grand scheme of things that only God can orchestrate. Yeshua is our High Priest and He will go into the Father in the Most Holy only once for the final atonement.

Those of us in the inner temple need to be before the altar of incense more often learning of the understanding and responsibilities of the work in the inner sanctuary. The seals of the scroll will be opened and we will...Rev 10:7 But when the seventh angel blows his trumpet, then God will accomplish his secret plan, as he announced to his servants, the prophets."

8 Then the voice that I had heard speaking from heaven spoke to me again, saying, "Go and take the open scroll which is in the hand of the angel standing on the sea and on the land." R71 9 I went to the angel and asked him to give me the little scroll. He said to me, "Take it and eat it; it will turn sour in your stomach, but in your mouth it will be sweet as honey." 10 I took the little scroll from his hand and ate it, and it tasted sweet as honey in my mouth. But after I swallowed it, it turned sour in my stomach. 11 Then I was told, "Once again you must proclaim God's message about many nations, races, languages, and kings."

If you think that there is no difference between that which goes on in the inner court and that which happens to the outer court think about this.. Rev 11:1
I was then given a stick that looked like a measuring-rod, and was told, "Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count those who are worshiping in the temple. Do we understand what is going on in the inner temple and are we spiritually there? This runing in circles over the same thing trying to force personal conviction rather than having an objective to understand more of the Word of God. We do need to understand more of the Word of God and just witness here what we have come to understand, so that others can see if it is so.

There are more important things to focus in on like how not to be part of those in the outer court.
Rev 11:2
But do not measure the outer courts, because they have been given to the heathen, who will trample on the Holy City for forty-two months.

[Shimshon]

no comment
ah but you already did....

It's annoying to see so much gossip and so many rumors going on, and unable to speak up and clear them up.

I'll just say this, if you take the Torah away from Messianic Judaism, your removeing judaism, and your leaveing yourself what mostly everyone here has chosen to move away from.This told me that you feel there is gossip, rumor and slander happening here in the forums, but your position prevents you from speaking about it?

And that it has to do with those people's here who as you say desire to 'take Torah away from Messianic Judaism'? You imply that they are going back to the egypt of Christianity by removing the Torah from Messianic Judaism. And that you have no ability to respond to them. Is this not what your comment was?

:confused:

[talmidim]

no commentBut my Dear Brother, you already made a comment. Now I am asking you to back it up with facts instead of innuendo.

in·nu·en·do (ĭn'yū-ĕn'dō) http://content.answers.com/main/content/img/pron.gif
n., pl. -does.
An indirect or subtle, usually derogatory implication in expression; an insinuation.

[stone]

as mod i cant speak of certain things, this is one

[stone]

ah but you already did....

This told me that you feel there is gossip, rumor and slander happening here in the forums, but your position prevents you from speaking about it?

And that it has to do with those people's here who as you say desire to 'take Torah away from Messianic Judaism'? You imply that they are going back to the egypt of Christianity by removing the Torah from Messianic Judaism. And that you have no ability to respond to them. Is this not what your comment was?

:confused:


what are you talking about?