When did you reject EGW, IJ and 1844 (ex-sda, PSDA and ESDA's sda only NO C/TSDA )

[icedragon101]

I would like to know your personal story of your rejection of EGW, the investigative Judgement and 2300 days terminating in 1844. What was your Journey. No traditional or conservatives SDA'S Are welcome to comment or post. You can only view. Thank-you


how did it start.

what was the procces

what was the truning poing

what sealed the conclusion for you.

How long did it take.

How do you feel about it.

[tall73]

Just checking in since I am deciding on these myself.

[icedragon101]

hope to here you journey. You don't have to be out of the sda chruch. just not a TSDA or CSDA

[Eila]

I would like to know your personal story of your rejection of EGW, the investigative Judgement and 2300 days terminating in 1844. What was your Journey. No traditional or conservatives SDA'S Are welcome to comment or post. You can only view. Thank-you

My journey out of the SDA church did not really deal with those issues. I always found EGW boring and didn't understand why we would read her if we had the Bible. I grew up being taught that if EGW disagrees with the Bible to toss out EGW so I never really paid much attention to what she had to say. As I was leaving the SDA church I saw the ellenwhite.org site, but it didn't impact me greatly because EGW wasn't high in my book anyway. Also, I never realized that SDAs believed in an incomplete atonement at the cross until after I left the SDA church. Maybe I'm not a good example :) I was baptized at a young age after much begging. I was baptized into Christ. My young mind did not understand the complexities of the investigative judgment, but I did know I loved Jesus. That said I did reek of legalism for several years until I had a teacher in academy who taught me that we could have assurance of salvation.

I did sit down and try to prove the 2300 days from the history books. I wanted to see if all those dates were significant. I couldn't find one of them. I'm sure they are in history, but they were not these significant events that I had thought they were. When my views on the remnant status and the Sabbath toppled the SDA prophecy ideas went with them.

The issue that led to me leaving was the remnant status and the mission of the SDA church to convert Christians to SDAism. To get to that point was the work of the Holy Spirit. I had met and was baptized in the Holy Spirit and within a year I left the church completely. He walked me through leaving in baby-steps and gave me a nudge when I needed it. He opened my eyes and I saw things in the Word of God that I had never seen before. I left the church due to the remnant status, but I still called myself SDA until my views changed about the Sabbath. Those views changed about 3 months after leaving. My views on the state of the dead gradually changed over a couple years.


how did it start. My questionning of SDA doctrine began with something rather silly. I was a student missionary in another country and it was perfectly okay for people there to wear jewelry and it was not okay to wear make-up. It was the opposite in the US. That started me questioning many things.


what was the procces

On and off for many years I would question different issues like the Sabbath and the SDA's view on prophecy. I dealt with these issues on my own and after not finding answers to questions I would usually go back into cognitive dissonance. That process took about 7 years. One girl was very influential. I met a Christian woman who was on fire for God. She had something real and she was not SDA. Her witness was real. Mine was pitiful. I had thought I was witnessing when I told someone I went to church on Saturday.


what was the truning poing

The baptism of the Holy Spirit


what sealed the conclusion for you.

Realizing that my vision and the SDA vision did not match. My vision was to bring the Gospel to the lost. SDAs vision was to bring the 3 angels messages to Christians.


How long did it take. 8 years!


How do you feel about it.

No regrets whatsoever although I do miss potlucks :) It was the Holy Spirit who led me. At times I questioned what He was doing, but He knew what He was doing. I went to a Bible school shortly after I left the SDA church. It was quite humbling to go from knowing everything to knowing nothing. There will never be an end to learning.

[tall73]

I have not drawn many conclusions yet, but I have a lot of questions.

The first time I really remember having any questioning at all was when I was in high school and was reading through the SDA Bible Commentary on Daniel. Some of the interpretation of Daniel 11 especially seemed strained. I had no issues with the 70 weeks, 2300 days, etc. at the time though. So I just figured I needed to learn more about Dan. 11, put it on hold and didn't revisit it again for a while. I had one or two questions about the daily then too, but nothing big.

I don't really know at what point I came to the conclusion that Jesus was not literally in one compartment for 1800 years. I think probably somewhere in college. I viewed it then as two separate ministries. No big deal, still believed in the IJ, etc. Also in college we had a guy who pointed out the scapegoat making atonement, but I don't know as I really decided anything at that time. I filed it away.

I preached for several years on the IJ, tranfer of sin to the sanctuary, 70 weeks, 2300 days, etc. I realized doing an evangelistic series that we really didn't have all the dates on the 70 weeks for certain. I guess it didn't bother me too much, but I straight out presented it as three of the dates being less than certain, but probable.

After a number of years pastoring I noticed the context problem with Daniel 8 while reading.

At some point the conference gave out a book responding to the critics on the sanctuary and I knew I didn't want to read it because I suspected that if I did I might find problems.

Sure enough, there were problems. Some I had some dim perception of before. I knew for instance for a while, not sure when, that there were day of atonement references in Hebews. I reasoned that it was just the sacrifice and that nothing had yet actually happened with the day of atonement. I also was convinced Jesus went into the most holy.

Anyway while reading this book I started to realize just how many assumptions we were making. I knew about the debates on the terms before but it finally struck me that all of these terms that we debated HAD to go, without exception, our way, and that was unlikely in some cases.

At some point while debating in GT I started to have some questions on the Sabbath, primarily as a result of the formulaic approach of Col 2 listing the feasts as yearly, monthly , weekly. I studied out a lot of that and pretty much concluded that we were alright on the sabbath, there was a fair amount of evidence of early church observance, etc. That was encouraging. I also re-examined our relation to tradition. I started reading a lot of the early church fathers, discussing tradition in GT etc.

I think we rejected too much. Scripture must come first but Scripture does not contain all the information ever about the church. But after some time of re-studying my thoughts on that I realized that I definitely was a protestant for a reason and could not accept a number of apostolic church doctrines.

Then at some point I mentioned the context question in Dan. 8 to my wife. She didn't get it. By this point I had re-visited the question a couple times just for a brief stint. I had started reading the Daniel and Revelation Committee series that we had lying around already. But I was not in a hurry on it. I didn't feel yet that it was a big issue as I just assumed I was missing some facts.

Well eventually the wife saw the context problem while reading on her own. Kind of like a switch going off. She is not as laid back as me about these things and immediately began studying night and day for quite some time trying to figure it all out in a week. Well it certainly went more than a week.

I decided since she was studying it all out anyway and kept asking me questions I better start getting some answers so I started reading everything I could on it after work and just tried to make sense of things.

Then we had a brief conversation on the issue in the Adventist section that was helpful in some ways. Mainly Jon and DL were participating and I began to formulate some ways to reconcile with the traditional view. However, what started well did wind up well in that regard--well at leats for staying in the church.

Just the last month or so, mabye a bit more, I decided that I need to step this up. I am not able to resolve some things just by reading and needed to interact to test my views. That is why I started posting on this again in my Pastor's thread here in DST.

[icedragon101]

good post Tall73 seems honest to me

[icedragon101]

My journey out of the SDA church did not really deal with those issues. I always found EGW boring and didn't understand why we would read her if we had the Bible. I grew up being taught that if EGW disagrees with the Bible to toss out EGW so I never really paid much attention to what she had to say. As I was leaving the SDA church I saw the ellenwhite.org site, but it didn't impact me greatly because EGW wasn't high in my book anyway. Also, I never realized that SDAs believed in an incomplete atonement at the cross until after I left the SDA church. Maybe I'm not a good example :) I was baptized at a young age after much begging. I was baptized into Christ. My young mind did not understand the complexities of the investigative judgment, but I did know I loved Jesus. That said I did reek of legalism for several years until I had a teacher in academy who taught me that we could have assurance of salvation.

I did sit down and try to prove the 2300 days from the history books. I wanted to see if all those dates were significant. I couldn't find one of them. I'm sure they are in history, but they were not these significant events that I had thought they were. When my views on the remnant status and the Sabbath toppled the SDA prophecy ideas went with them.

The issue that led to me leaving was the remnant status and the mission of the SDA church to convert Christians to SDAism. To get to that point was the work of the Holy Spirit. I had met and was baptized in the Holy Spirit and within a year I left the church completely. He walked me through leaving in baby-steps and gave me a nudge when I needed it. He opened my eyes and I saw things in the Word of God that I had never seen before. I left the church due to the remnant status, but I still called myself SDA until my views changed about the Sabbath. Those views changed about 3 months after leaving. My views on the state of the dead gradually changed over a couple years.

My questionning of SDA doctrine began with something rather silly. I was a student missionary in another country and it was perfectly okay for people there to wear jewelry and it was not okay to wear make-up. It was the opposite in the US. That started me questioning many things.



On and off for many years I would question different issues like the Sabbath and the SDA's view on prophecy. I dealt with these issues on my own and after not finding answers to questions I would usually go back into cognitive dissonance. That process took about 7 years. One girl was very influential. I met a Christian woman who was on fire for God. She had something real and she was not SDA. Her witness was real. Mine was pitiful. I had thought I was witnessing when I told someone I went to church on Saturday.



The baptism of the Holy Spirit



Realizing that my vision and the SDA vision did not match. My vision was to bring the Gospel to the lost. SDAs vision was to bring the 3 angels messages to Christians.

8 years!



No regrets whatsoever although I do miss potlucks :) It was the Holy Spirit who led me. At times I questioned what He was doing, but He knew what He was doing. I went to a Bible school shortly after I left the SDA church. It was quite humbling to go from knowing everything to knowing nothing. There will never be an end to learning. thank-you very much

just one question what are your views on death and how did they change?

[Eila]

thank-you very much

just one question what are your views on death and how did they change?

In short....

I believe we are triune beings made in the image of God who is a Spirit. We have a body, soul, and spirit. Our bodies are simply our "earth clothes" or tent. When we die our body goes to the grave and our spirit goes to be with God. I do believe in consciousness after death. I believe my body is not who I am, but where I reside. I believe the spirit in a man can be dead, but when one is born again the spirit becomes alive. The spirit is the part of man that connects to God and it is where God actually resides in me.

My views changed when I studied and understood more about the spirit of a man and when I understood what was born again. I was confused and undecided about the issue for several years after I left the SDA church.

[freeindeed2]

My journey out of the SDA church did not really deal with those issues. I always found EGW boring and didn't understand why we would read her if we had the Bible. I grew up being taught that if EGW disagrees with the Bible to toss out EGW so I never really paid much attention to what she had to say. As I was leaving the SDA church I saw the ellenwhite.org site, but it didn't impact me greatly because EGW wasn't high in my book anyway. Also, I never realized that SDAs believed in an incomplete atonement at the cross until after I left the SDA church. Maybe I'm not a good example :) I was baptized at a young age after much begging. I was baptized into Christ. My young mind did not understand the complexities of the investigative judgment, but I did know I loved Jesus. That said I did reek of legalism for several years until I had a teacher in academy who taught me that we could have assurance of salvation.

I did sit down and try to prove the 2300 days from the history books. I wanted to see if all those dates were significant. I couldn't find one of them. I'm sure they are in history, but they were not these significant events that I had thought they were. When my views on the remnant status and the Sabbath toppled the SDA prophecy ideas went with them.

The issue that led to me leaving was the remnant status and the mission of the SDA church to convert Christians to SDAism. To get to that point was the work of the Holy Spirit. I had met and was baptized in the Holy Spirit and within a year I left the church completely. He walked me through leaving in baby-steps and gave me a nudge when I needed it. He opened my eyes and I saw things in the Word of God that I had never seen before. I left the church due to the remnant status, but I still called myself SDA until my views changed about the Sabbath. Those views changed about 3 months after leaving. My views on the state of the dead gradually changed over a couple years.

My questionning of SDA doctrine began with something rather silly. I was a student missionary in another country and it was perfectly okay for people there to wear jewelry and it was not okay to wear make-up. It was the opposite in the US. That started me questioning many things.



On and off for many years I would question different issues like the Sabbath and the SDA's view on prophecy. I dealt with these issues on my own and after not finding answers to questions I would usually go back into cognitive dissonance. That process took about 7 years. One girl was very influential. I met a Christian woman who was on fire for God. She had something real and she was not SDA. Her witness was real. Mine was pitiful. I had thought I was witnessing when I told someone I went to church on Saturday.



The baptism of the Holy Spirit



Realizing that my vision and the SDA vision did not match. My vision was to bring the Gospel to the lost. SDAs vision was to bring the 3 angels messages to Christians.

8 years!



No regrets whatsoever although I do miss potlucks :) It was the Holy Spirit who led me. At times I questioned what He was doing, but He knew what He was doing. I went to a Bible school shortly after I left the SDA church. It was quite humbling to go from knowing everything to knowing nothing. There will never be an end to learning.
Eila, I'm trying to remember. Didn't you and I have the same Bible teacher? Or am I confusing you with someone else? (Too many posts and PM's on multiple forums!) LOL.

[Eila]

Eila, I'm trying to remember. Didn't you and I have the same Bible teacher? Or am I confusing you with someone else? (Too many posts and PM's on multiple forums!) LOL.

Yes :) Junior year in academy - the one who taught me assurance of salvation.

[freeindeed2]

Yes :) Junior year in academy - the one who taught me assurance of salvation.
I thought so, but didn't want to assume. It is interesting to look back and see how God caused different pieces to come together at different times for his own purposes. He was one of many 'pieces' who directed us to Jesus instead of unique doctrines to the SDA church. How refreshing! That's why he was so loved by his students.

[SoldierOfTheKing]

I was baptized into the SDA church while I was in college, without giving adequate thought as to what I was really doing. I was ultimately baptized at the urging of the pastor rather than of my own initiative.
The thing was, is that I never really fit into that church. I never felt comfortable about the weight the church gave to EGW's writings, and some aspects of the "health message" (e.g. vegetarianism) struck me as silly. For years I tried to kid myself into the thinking that what made me uncomfortable about the SDA's where merely currents within the church, not intrinsic to the church itself. After all, my journey into the church started when I was handed a copy of the Great Contraversy by a complete stranger when I was 16, and the most important thing I learned from it was that I can't simply assume something to be true just because respected teachers teach it, but that everything needs to be confirmed by the Scriptures.

My exodus from the church was caused when I began attending a congregation that espoused Historical Adventism. It was known as the most conservative Adventist congregation in the Seattle area. It was the only congregation I had ever gone to where pastor would quote directly from the "SOP" as if it were Scripture. I was still attending when the pastor retired, but the elders were of the same mind. It came to dawn on the kind of internalized neuroticism which prevails in the church. I remember the second to last Sabbath service the wife of one of the elders talking about how the increased regection of EGW in the church fulfilled the prophecies of the future "shaking off". The last service I read a church bulletin insert about cooperating with the Holy Spirit to achieve sinless perfection. That was the last straw for me. It dawned on me that I simply did not belong in that church, and what made me uncomfortable in that congregation, was also present, more subtly even in the evangelical SDA congregations. I could not wait for the service to be over so that I could storm out, never to return again.

I had attended the SDA church for eight years, six years as a baptized member. I was in the unenviable position of breaking fellowship with a church that I had learned so much from. I went on a search for non-SDA Sabbath keeping churches in the area, which are few and far between. Church of God, Seventh Day was my first choice, but their closest congregation was over an hour away. There was a Seventh Day Baptist congregation about 45 minutes away, but that was still a considerable distance, and I was concerned that embracing the SDB's would be "throwing the baby out with the bathwater". The United Church of God had a congregation perhaps 30 minutes away, which I decided to take a chance on.

The sermon topic at my first Sabbath service there was "Life Changing Grace". It wasn't anything I didn't already know, but it was a message I had been starved of for years with the SDA's and a message I desperately needed to hear. Furthermore, the people at that church had a love for each other that I had never seen at any church anywhere. That is where I remain to this day. Whether I will ever become a member, I don't know, but I have never felt as home anywhere as I have at UCG. I can see plain as day that this is where God wants me right now.

Incidentally, I just made travel arrangements for my first Feast of Tabernacles today!

[ttreg]

Okay, I'm redoing this post. The last one stinked. I'm putting my extra long testimony on. I was originally addressed to a group of exChristians so I has to deal with my leaving of Christianity altogether. Not just the SDA church. It is going to have things that will most likely offend you if you're Christian. Oh well, it is my deconverstion testimony.

"Hello, since it has been around a year since I got out of Christianity, and to hopefully clear up any misunderstandings, I thought I might as well write a new, more accurate, anti-testimony. It might be long, I’ll attempt to condense things

I was raised in a Pentecostal home. We went to the Brownsville Assemblies of God church in Pensacola, Florida. Of which I am sure many of you have heard because of the revival that came from it in the 1990's and can imagine what I was taught from the church. We went there until I was around 10 or 11. We eventually just started going less and less until we stopped.

My mom, sister, and I (My dad didn’t go for he is nonreligious and couldn’t give a [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] bout it.) said we were Christians and all but didn’t really live up to it, though my mom would and is more then willing to defend herself and have great pride in her beliefs and such.

Of course, I didn’t understand much what was being said, but I was interested in it. I seemed to be in a nightmare at the time. I was afraid and scared over the weekend, when it was around time to go to church, and sometimes during the week because I thought I wasn’t able to be good and was going to be damned to hell. And often times I was very sad because I though there was something wrong with me because I wasn’t on the floor speaking tongues, shaking, etc.

So I grew up interested in my religion (and very dependent on it because I’ve used it as a crutch), but couldn’t understand much of it. I believed every word taught, no matter what, and was never told how to reason or why and never developed the power myself. I know you don’t expect a 9-year-old how to reason and to have great religious ideas, but I didn’t get mature enough to reason on my own until not too long ago. Which has caused a few problems.

When I was in 6th grade I started to grow an interest into other beliefs. Not interested in joining them but I thought it was interesting what other people thought and believed. My interested in my own religion soon grew more as well. I wanted to know more about the Bible, Christianity, etc. But, of course, I always got a Christian apologetic’s view of everything and believed it without thought.

Later on in 7th grade I was introduced to the Seventh-day Adventist church (SDA) (Which is a long story which I don’t think I will put here.) I started attending regularly in March of 2006 and was baptized in August of the same year. Still, no reason being used, I believed everything I was taught in the SDA Bible studies which led to the conversion. I was very adamant (I think that is the correct usage of the word. If not, I mean that I had a deep conviction) about my beliefs.

Yet, I also started to get an interest about "having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ" I had heard it at the Pentecostal church but never understood it. I was much older now and had the ability to understand it. The way the Pastor of the SDA church put it, and the things I read about it in SDA literature, made it understandable for me. I sincerely believed I could have a relationship with Jesus and wanted one badly. I tried to do devotionals and such but never heard a word from God or Jesus. I remember actually being in tears sometimes because I wanted a word from God like everyone promised me I could have. Once again, I thought something was wrong with me and I was unworthy. Like I said, I was VERY into my religion and used it as a crutch and the crutch was starting to fall down. This started to cripple my faith and lead to doubt which I talk about later on below.

I was naive, too, I knew about the "bad things" of the world like sex, drugs, etc. But I was never exposed to them nor had a single friend who was "bad" and into anything "sinful" like that, because I had just about always gone to Christian schools which shielded me. My mind was blew away in 8th grade, at one of the Christian schools I went to, when I became friends with a couple people who were "worldly" and it blew my mind away. These kids might be termed normal by everyone else but not by me. I never knew a single person like them. They also didn’t come from the best of homes. All of this was also happening when I was starting to question my faith. All of this threw me into a big depression. It lasted from around the end of January until the beginning of May. The "main thoughts" that were the cause of the depression was "Why would God allow such suffering to happen to them? Or to anyone else? Why wont he fix it? Why cant everything be good?" I was depressed during two periods of time. When I was and wasn’t Christian. When I deconverted the depression lasted and it basically turned into "Why cant there be a God to make everything good? Why cant he exist like I want him to?!?!?" etc.

I am going to now add a part of the story I usually leave out when I talk to people in real life cause I think it is too long and they’ll get confused and look at me strange. But it is a big part of the story and I think it needs to be in. I had this before I joined the SDA church and really got into my religion even more, but it got way worse. The worst I had it was in January. I had always been taught and believed that even one sin unconfessed could keep you out of heaven. And I thought I was ALWAYS sinning. For example, if I was sitting in school and had bad posture I thought I was sinning. Because my teachers have told us not to have bad posture and it is bad for you. I thought it was sin because I thought I was being disobedient to my teachers and hurting my body, which I though was sin. So, if for a second I thought I had bad posture I thought I was sinning and needed to confess ASAP. Which I tried to. It wasn’t just bad posture it was a whole bunch of things I thought I was doing wrong and therefore was sinning. I was constantly praying in my head for forgiveness which really messed me up. Like if I was talking to someone I’d mess up my words because I was trying to talk and pray in my head for forgiveness and couldnt do both at the same time. It made it very hard to concentrate on anything. It tormented me for so long.One day in January I said "Enough! I can’t do this!" And stopped. I said to myself "I am going to stop this for now. I cant do it for so long. I will confess of the sins later on when convicted but, I’m sorry, but I need to live!" (Strange, I know, but I still wasn’t able to reason, and it made sense to me)

I still believed and didn’t want to deconvert at the time so I became a non-practicing Christian. I became a non-practicing Christian about 2 weeks or so before the depression came. It led to the depression some, too. I still had my beliefs though.

Speed up a few months and you get to March 2007.

I hadn’t ever read anything against Christianity during those months because I still wanted to believe. But one day I thought hard about something I had been thinking about for a few weeks. Hypocrites. I knew I was one but then I noticed....all of the other church members were hypocrites, too, from what I had observed from them. And I started to think something like "Why are they hypocritical? I don’t expect absolute perfection, but why so much hypocrisy? Why am I such a damn hypocrite? Don’t they have Jesus? Didn’t I? Isn’t Jesus suppose to help us"? And then the thought started upon me, "Maybe Jesus isn’t there?...."

Which led to the way I got out. I am over that big depression I had a year ago and am fine most of the time. Though, I admit, it still seems Christianity still has some emotional hooks left in me which still hurt. After you’re addicted to a powerful drug like religion for so long it is hard to get completely off. I’m just thankful that I got off it when I did and didn’t end up in Christianity for 20+ years or so like many others have."

[Sophia7]

oh and what does ESDA mean? I know PSDA means Progressive,TSDA means Traditional,and CSDA means conservative but not the meaning of ESDA.

Evangelical SDA.

[AlbertaBoy]

Evangelical SDA.

It has ocurred to me while reading here that there are people who still love the doctrines of the Adventist Church; they have no problem with them; but they do not currently attend church because of the way they were treated, mistreated, or abused.

I have seen all kinds of initials here for various kinds of Adventists; is there a name and corresponding initial for such ones who have not abandoned the teachings, but who have stopped associating with the people?

[AlbertaBoy]

The "break" started in early February and ended around late april.
(Some may remember that I deconverted in November but that is another story. to make it short, i was non christian for 48 hours and that was it. it was for way different reasons then this)



I am presuming by your posts that I have read that you are currently considering yourself as a Christian? I am glad your "deconversion" only lasted 48 hours. Even that is too long to be without God - but, I wonder, are we really ever without Him?


Heb 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

[icedragon101]

Wanting to shore up my undersanding of Adventist history. In may of 06 I began to read Biograph's of SDA figures. I sensed there was a problem but I could not put my finger on it. after reading my 3 Biography i Began to be aware of the problem. As I dug I foung that Ellen White was the source of alot of Theological problmes. The Righteous by Faith problem of 1888 was caused by her in 1856. that was the beginning as I kept reading I began to realize that the denomination was lying to us about key figures, and events. I brefily mentioned this to a friend and he told me he was struggling with the same thing. As we shared I began to see the problmes with the 2300 days and the sabbath issuses. The claims of the SDA chruch cannot be sustain, remnant chruch, the sunday law, the seal of god and the mark of the beast. As of Nov 07 I am no longer an SDA

[AlbertaBoy]

Wanting to shore up my undersanding of Adventist history. In may of 06 I began to read Biograph's of SDA figures. I sensed there was a problem but I could not put my finger on it. after reading my 3 Biography i Began to be aware of the problem. As I dug I foung that Ellen White was the source of alot of Theological problmes. The Righteous by Faith problem of 1888 was caused by her in 1856. that was the beginning as I kept reading I began to realize that the denomination was lying to us about key figures, and events. I brefily mentioned this to a friend and he told me he was struggling with the same thing. As we shared I began to see the problmes with the 2300 days and the sabbath issuses. The claims of the SDA chruch cannot be sustain, remnant chruch, the sunday law, the seal of god and the mark of the beast. As of Nov 07 I am no longer an SDA

I remember a number of months ago; you really wanted to be a Moderator here. This post makes me ask why you would still be posting on an "Adventist" forum? Do you have a "burden" now to try to gain "converts" from the Adventist Church? I don't ask this in a critical sense; I am just trying to get a little background of what is happening here, and what kind of forum this really is? :liturgy:

[Sophia7]

I remember a number of months ago; you really wanted to be a Moderator here. This post makes me ask why you would still be posting on an "Adventist" forum? Do you have a "burden" now to try to gain "converts" from the Adventist Church? I don't ask this in a critical sense; I am just trying to get a little background of what is happening here, and what kind of forum this really is? :liturgy:

The SDA Discussion and Debate sub-forum is open to debate by everyone, so it's not unusual to find former Adventists there. Many former Adventists, especially those who have left recently, are still studying and figuring out what to believe on a lot of issues. I am myself, having just left the SDA Church about six months ago. Leaving Adventism isn't a simple process. For those of us who grew up in the SDA Church especially, it's a part of our identity that can't just be cast off overnight.

Also, many of the issues that we wrestle with in our studies are completely foreign to other Christians who have never been Adventists. That limits how much they can relate to our experiences. I personally find it helpful to discuss things with those who are familiar with the theological intricacies of SDA doctrine.

[icedragon101]

I remember a number of months ago; you really wanted to be a Moderator here. This post makes me ask why you would still be posting on an "Adventist" forum? Do you have a "burden" now to try to gain "converts" from the Adventist Church? I don't ask this in a critical sense; I am just trying to get a little background of what is happening here, and what kind of forum this really is? :liturgy:

AB

I don't know where the chip on your sholder came from but get it off. You are taking things personally. I still believe in
4 things
1. sabbath
2. state of the Dead
3. Advent
4. Historicist

i dropped my membership because i cannot fully support the denomination in All or most of it's aspects.

[AlbertaBoy]

Don't worry, nothings been taken "personally." I am just stating how this forum hit me.

[dagna30]

I never felt right in the way that I was brought into the church. I was told right away that I was not ready for baptism and that I would need to first go through these classes. That should have been my first clue but I was so eager to further my new relationship with God that I went ahead with it. My next shocker was learning about this prophet and 1844 just 24 hours before my baptism. I cant help but question why that didnt come up in the weeks that I was studying with them. It took me several years to make the connection between what I was taught and where it came from. That feels wrong to me. Next came the baptismal vows, dont get me started on those. I made a silent vow instead to study my Bible then study the church and its materials. The bottom line is that I read my Bible and things did not line up when I started studying the church doctrine. I went to several members of the church to get answers, and the very few responses that I got were not satisfying. In my last meeting I asked how we could support EGW when she endorsed false prophecies to begin with. The answer, "She wasnt a prophet then". I cant accept that! Ive recently made the decision to leave. I have quit going to church. Its been maybe three months now. Some members have been more kind than others. No one has asked for my reasons. My own family have been terrible, screaming at me that since I am leaving the church I must no longer love the Lord. Its been a rough road and I get the feeling this is just the beginning. So this is my story so far. I appreciate some of what I got from the church, but its time to move on and grow into something a little more biblically sound. Thanks for asking! :groupray:

[Sophia7]

I never felt right in the way that I was brought into the church. I was told right away that I was not ready for baptism and that I would need to first go through these classes. That should have been my first clue but I was so eager to further my new relationship with God that I went ahead with it. My next shocker was learning about this prophet and 1844 just 24 hours before my baptism. I cant help but question why that didnt come up in the weeks that I was studying with them. It took me several years to make the connection between what I was taught and where it came from. That feels wrong to me. Next came the baptismal vows, dont get me started on those. I made a silent vow instead to study my Bible then study the church and its materials. The bottom line is that I read my Bible and things did not line up when I started studying the church doctrine. I went to several members of the church to get answers, and the very few responses that I got were not satisfying. In my last meeting I asked how we could support EGW when she endorsed false prophecies to begin with. The answer, "She wasnt a prophet then". I cant accept that! Ive recently made the decision to leave. I have quit going to church. Its been maybe three months now. Some members have been more kind than others. No one has asked for my reasons. My own family have been terrible, screaming at me that since I am leaving the church I must no longer love the Lord. Its been a rough road and I get the feeling this is just the beginning. So this is my story so far. I appreciate some of what I got from the church, but its time to move on and grow into something a little more biblically sound. Thanks for asking! :groupray:

Hi, Dagna, and welcome to CF. I'm a former Adventist, as of about six months ago. You're welcome to come to the new Progressive/Moderate/Former Adventist Forum (http://christianforums.com/f569-progressive-seventh-day-adventists.html) and join in the discussions there.

[SonOfGodAlmighty]

i enjoyed the post that ive read so far...ive got some difficult "doctrinal" problems to work out..I was raised baptist..got out of church...started going to SDA revaltion seminars..BAM im back in the game..this is where my "journey" started..i attended the SDA church for a few months..soaking up everything i heard..from prophecies..to the atonement..Gods divorcement of Israel..the sabbath..Then i started praying that God would lead me into the true perfect doctrine he intended for us to follow...i know hes not the God of confusion so i had faith he would guide me..I didnt think to much of EGW, especially since they title her the "Greatest Prophet" i was skeptical and never really bought into it....About 2 months ago i left the SDA church and felt relieved..like a burden was off my shoulders....So i started to go to a baptist church with my family, i enjoyed it..i was above average in scripture knowledge for that particular church, so i was able to take some leadership rolls with teens... However i think that evangelicals are just as equally wrong as SDA. I dont believe in pre trib rapture..i believe in keeping the sabbath..for one because God instituted it before Sin, and his covenant with Israel..plus in Isaiah it says we will keep the sabbath in new jerusalem..up until about a week ago i thought that Isreal was still Gods chosen people because i thought Romans 11 clarified that, however an SDA deacon give me a book called "Isreal, the great delusion"..something like that..i am a chapter from being done with the book and their are some great arguments based on scripture that i couldnt refute..and i havnt seen an evangelical argument as thorough that points to israel still being his inheritance...im not partial to the SDA at all..however i feel some of their beliefs are more in line then other denominations...The deacon that give me the book is also starting to do in depth studies of the tabernacle..before to long the issue of atonement will be talked about and i hope to gain more insight.....sorry if this post wasnt as organized as you had hoped..i pray that we all come to the truth

[Sophia7]

i enjoyed the post that ive read so far...ive got some difficult "doctrinal" problems to work out..I was raised baptist..got out of church...started going to SDA revaltion seminars..BAM im back in the game..this is where my "journey" started..i attended the SDA church for a few months..soaking up everything i heard..from prophecies..to the atonement..Gods divorcement of Israel..the sabbath..Then i started praying that God would lead me into the true perfect doctrine he intended for us to follow...i know hes not the God of confusion so i had faith he would guide me..I didnt think to much of EGW, especially since they title her the "Greatest Prophet" i was skeptical and never really bought into it....About 2 months ago i left the SDA church and felt relieved..like a burden was off my shoulders....So i started to go to a baptist church with my family, i enjoyed it..i was above average in scripture knowledge for that particular church, so i was able to take some leadership rolls with teens... However i think that evangelicals are just as equally wrong as SDA. I dont believe in pre trib rapture..i believe in keeping the sabbath..for one because God instituted it before Sin, and his covenant with Israel..plus in Isaiah it says we will keep the sabbath in new jerusalem..up until about a week ago i thought that Isreal was still Gods chosen people because i thought Romans 11 clarified that, however an SDA deacon give me a book called "Isreal, the great delusion"..something like that..i am a chapter from being done with the book and their are some great arguments based on scripture that i couldnt refute..and i havnt seen an evangelical argument as thorough that points to israel still being his inheritance...im not partial to the SDA at all..however i feel some of their beliefs are more in line then other denominations...The deacon that give me the book is also starting to do in depth studies of the tabernacle..before to long the issue of atonement will be talked about and i hope to gain more insight.....sorry if this post wasnt as organized as you had hoped..i pray that we all come to the truth

Welcome! :) I'm still reexamining some Adventist beliefs to see if I can agree with them or not. I don't accept Ellen White as a prophet anymore, and I don't agree with the Adventist sanctuary teaching. I no longer believe that the Sabbath was a creation ordinance or that it is binding on Christians. I do still agree with the Adventist teaching that the wicked will be destroyed in the final judgment, not tortured forever in hell, but I'm kind of doubtful about the Adventist view of death. Like you, I have a few problems with the beliefs of some evangelical churches. I don't believe in a pre-trib rapture either.

[VictorC]

i enjoyed the post that ive read so far...ive got some difficult "doctrinal" problems to work out..I was raised baptist..got out of church...started going to SDA revaltion seminars..BAM im back in the game..this is where my "journey" started..i attended the SDA church for a few months..soaking up everything i heard..from prophecies..to the atonement..Gods divorcement of Israel..the sabbath..Then i started praying that God would lead me into the true perfect doctrine he intended for us to follow...i know hes not the God of confusion so i had faith he would guide me..I didnt think to much of EGW, especially since they title her the "Greatest Prophet" i was skeptical and never really bought into it....About 2 months ago i left the SDA church and felt relieved..like a burden was off my shoulders....
Shortly after I came to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ, I attended one of those SDA Revelation Seminars myself. Okay, part of it.
During the third evening of the week-long seminar, I heard the Spirit of God telling me to get up and get out. At that time, I didn't have a clue why I should do so.
That was 25 years ago.
I understand why now Father didn't want me being a part of the SDA church.

Suffice to say that Father knows how to lead His own, and this sounds like an integral part of your testimony, as well.
So i started to go to a baptist church with my family, i enjoyed it..i was above average in scripture knowledge for that particular church, so i was able to take some leadership rolls with teens... However i think that evangelicals are just as equally wrong as SDA.
The differences are likely to be differences in non-salvic things regarding eschatology.
I dont believe in pre trib rapture..
Agreed. I studied my way out of the pre-trib rapture by determining it to coincide with the resurrection on the Day of the LORD, the second advent of Messiah.
i believe in keeping the sabbath..for one because God instituted it before Sin
There was no sabbath ordinance before the Manna recorded in Exodus 16, when Israel came out of Egypt. The SDA explanation is that Genesis records a sabbath at creation, but looking at the texts will show that this isn't so. Genesis 2:2-3 shows that God rested on the seventh day of creation (and on that one day only) and no one else rested. Hebrews 4 expands on this singular rest and compares it to the one time Joshua led Israel into the promised land. God's one-time rest that He entered into is the cessation of our labors and entering into His rest for eternity. Sabbath days repeat weekly and annually; God's rest that we enter into by belief never comes to an end.
and his covenant with Israel..
The covenant that Hebrews 10:9 tells us was taken away to establish the second (new) covenant was at Sinai, and was the Mosaic covenant.

What was that covenant taken away?
The ten commandments.
Exodus 34:27-28
27: And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.
28: And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
Deuteronomy 4:12-13
12: And the LORD spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard the voice of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice.
13: And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

In essence, the ten commandments were the old testament, another word for covenant.
plus in Isaiah it says we will keep the sabbath in new jerusalem..
Check that quote from Isaiah 66:23, and see that the sabbath is simply a marking of the passage of time, just as the monthly new moons. There isn't an ordinance to keep a sabbath that has been done away with by redemption from the law mediated by Moses.
up until about a week ago i thought that Isreal was still Gods chosen people because i thought Romans 11 clarified that, however an SDA deacon give me a book called "Isreal, the great delusion"..something like that..i am a chapter from being done with the book and their are some great arguments based on scripture that i couldnt refute..and i havnt seen an evangelical argument as thorough that points to israel still being his inheritance...im not partial to the SDA at all..however i feel some of their beliefs are more in line then other denominations...
The SDA "prophet", Ellen White, published in 1851 that old Jerusalem would never be rebuilt.
That doesn't quite line up with the expectation Jesus had of Jerusalem literally returning to the Jews at a time undefined in His statement from Luke 21:24:
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
The deacon that give me the book is also starting to do in depth studies of the tabernacle..before to long the issue of atonement will be talked about and i hope to gain more insight.....
Be sure to ask that deacon why SDA fundamental belief #9 tells them that the atonement at Calvary was called a "perfect atonement", and therefore how come atonement can be perfect if there is a "second and final phase of atonement" that 1844 supposedly brings. Perfection needs nothing added to it, and the IJ you'll be introduced to came as an apology for 1844, a date in which nothing happened. That is what SDA Fundamental Belief #24 asserts, contradicting #9.

Unlike differences regarding the pre-trib rapture theory, atonement is a salvic doctrine. The SDA church denies an atonement that is complete.
sorry if this post wasnt as organized as you had hoped..i pray that we all come to the truth
Ellipses aren't good replacements for paragraphs, but I understood your overall post just fine ;)

As Sophia mentioned, please join us on the progressive Adventist forum under "conregations". And, welcome to the zoo!

Victor

[ttreg]

I am presuming by your posts that I have read that you are currently considering yourself as a Christian? I am glad your "deconversion" only lasted 48 hours. Even that is too long to be without God - but, I wonder, are we really ever without Him?


Huh? I left Christianity in November 2006 for 2 days for a stupid reason but I left it finally left over a year ago.

[PROPHECYKID]

What are the problems with the sanctuary message? Its quite plain and logical to me.

[Adventtruth]

Do you define or use the sanctuary model as taught by Adventist as your plumb line?

AT

[PROPHECYKID]

Do you define or use the sanctuary model as taught by Adventist as your plumb line?

AT

What do you mean by "plumb line"?

[Sophia7]

What are the problems with the sanctuary message? Its quite plain and logical to me.

We've discussed the problems with the sanctuary doctrine in lots of other threads.

[Adventtruth]

What do you mean by "plumb line"?

Do you understand the sanctuary message as taught by SDAism including the cleansing and judgment in 1844 as representing how a person is saved?

AT