ROCOR and MP enter full communion

[Lotar]

No one posted it yet, so I thought I'd bring it up first. Tomorrow the long standing split will finally be ended.

[JustinHesychast]

I need to research more into this - I know of hardly a thing regarding the matter. But surely this is a good thing, yes? Glory to God!

[Knowledge3]

:clap: Unity. Unity. Unity in the body of Christ

[Michael the Iconographer]

Glory be to God!

[ufonium2]

Is there a webcast of this? I've looked, but can't find anything.

[Oblio]

Glory to God.

Who's Next ?

[Lotar]

The restoration of full communion between the two parts of the Russian Orthodox Church scheduled for 17 May
May 15: His Eminence Metropolitan Laurus, primate of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia (ROCOR), arrived in Moscow with clergymen, the combined ROCOR choir and pilgrims from the USA. Later that day His Eminence met with His Holiness Patriarch Alexy II of Moscow and All Russia.
May 16: On the Leavetaking of Pascha, His Eminence Metropolitan Laurus prays during Divine Liturgy in Danilov Monastery, then visits Donskoy Monastery, where he prays at the relics of Saint Tikhon, Patriarch and Confessor of All Russia; and views the holy items of the monastery and cemetery. During the solemn evening vigil, His Eminence prays at Sretensky Monastery, and the combined choir under Peter A. Fekula attends Bolshoy Voznesensky Cathedral, where Patriarch Alexy officiates.
May 17: On the feast day of the Ascension of the Lord, the ceremony of the signing of the Act of Canonical Communion will take place in Christ the Savior Cathedral followed by the first joint divine service celebrated by the hierarchs and clergymen of the Russian Church Abroad and of the Moscow Patriarchate.
The greeting of the First Hierarch of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia will take place at 9:15 at Christ the Savior Cathedral.
The arrival of His Holiness Patriarch Alexy II of Moscow and All Russia is scheduled to take place at 9:30. During the greeting of His Holiness, the festal prayers will be sung by the choir of the Holy Trinity-St Sergius Lavra and the choir of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia. Then His Holiness will read the prayer for the unity of the Church. The decrees of the Synod of Bishops of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia and of the Holy Synod of the Moscow Patriarchate on the confirmation of the Act of Canonical Communion will be read, followed by the reading of the Act itself. The Primate of the Moscow Patriarchate and the President of the Synod of the Russian Church Abroad will then sign the Act; following this, Many Years will be sung. After the signing of the Act, His Holiness, in concelebration with Metropolitan Laurus and the other bishops will conduct Divine Liturgy. Upon the conclusion of Liturgy, His Holiness will read a prayer of gratitude, after which the Primates of the two parts of the Russian Orthodox Church will exchange greetings.
This will be followed by the opening of an exhibition on the life of the Russian Orthodox Church inside and outside of Russia in the 20th and 21st centuries, the Holy New Martyrs and the dialog process which led to ecclesiastical unity.
At 6 pm that evening there will be a press conference in Danilovsky Hotel given by His Eminence Archbishop Mark of Berlin and Germany and His Eminence Archbishop Hilarion of Sydney, Australia and New Zealand.
May 18: Part of the official delegation, headed by His Eminence Archbishop Kyrill of San Francisco and Western America, and including the clergymen-pilgrims from different dioceses of ROCOR as well as pilgrims from the USA, will travel to Holy Trinity-St Sergius Lavra and the Orthodox Icon center "Sofrino."
May 19: His Holiness Patriarch Alexy will concelebrate with His Eminence Metropolitan Laurus, the bishops and clergymen of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia and of the Moscow Patriarchate at the great consecration of the Church of the Holy New Martyrs and Confessors of Russia in Butovo Field, followed by Divine Liturgy. His Holiness and His Eminence both participated in the consecration of the foundation of this church in May of 2004, during the first official visit by Metropolitan Laurus to Russia.
May 20: On the 7th Sunday of Pascha, His Holiness and His Eminence, the bishops and priests of the Russian Church Abroad will celebrate Divine Liturgy in Uspensky Cathedral in Moscow's Kremlin.
Participating in the Moscow part of the schedule will be the following bishops, clergymen and guests of His Eminence Metropolitan Laurus:
Bishops
+Mark, Archbishop of Berlin and Germany
+Hilarion, Archbishop of Sydney, Australia and New Zealand
+Kyrill , Archbishop of San Francisco and Western America
+Evtikhii, Bishop of Ishim and Siberia
+Michael , Bishop of Geneva and Western Europe
+Peter, Bishop of Cleveland, Administrator of the Diocese of Chicago and Mid-America
Members of the Commission on talks with the Moscow Patriarchate
Archimandrite Luke (Murianka), Deputy Dean of Holy Trinity Seminary, Jordanville
Mitred Protopriest Alexander Lebedeff, Rector of Holy Transfiguration Cathedral in Los Angeles, Secretary of the Commission
Protopriest Nikolai Artemoff, Senior Priest of the Cathedral of the Holy New Martyrs and Confessors of Russia, Secretary of the Diocese of Berlin and Germany
Members of the Pre-Council Committee for the IV All-Diaspora Council
Protopriest Victor Potapov, Rector of St John the Baptist Cathedral, Washington DC.
Protopriest Peter Perekrestov, Senior Priest of the Cathedral of the Mother of God "Joy of All Who Sorrow" in San Francisco, Secretary of the Diocese of San Francisco and Western America
Priest Serafim Gan, Rector of St Seraphim Church, Sea Cliff, NY, Personal Secretary of the First Hierarch
Protopriest Peter Holodny, Treasurer of the Synod of Bishops
The First Hierarch's attendants
Protodeacon Victor Lochmatov
Deacon Eugene Kallaur
Deacon Nicholas Olhovsky
Subdeacon George Shatiloff
George Selinsky
Pavel Vladimirovich Lisitsin
Clerical pilgrims, representing various dioceses of the Russian Church Abroad
Mitred Protopriest Alexander Fedorovsky (Diocese of Eastern America and New York)
Mitred Protopriest George Larin (Diocese of Eastern America and New York)
Protopriest John Shaw (Diocese of Chicago and Mid-America)
Protopriest Michael Protopopov (Diocese of Sydney, Australia and New Zealand)
Protopriest Michael Goudkov (Diocese of Geneva and Western Europe)
Protopriest Alexei Kotar (Diocese of San Francisco and Western America)
Protopriest Yaroslav Belikov (Diocese of San Francisco and Western America)
Protopriest Vladimir Boikov (Diocese of Sydney, Australia and New Zealand)
Hieromonk Roman (Krassovsky) (Holy Trinity Monastery, Jordanville)
Hieromonk Nicholas (Perekrestov) (Russian Ecclesiastical Mission in Jerusalem )
Priest Victor Boldewskul (representing the Rector of Epiphany Church in Boston, Mitred Protopriest Roman Lukianov)
Priest John Whiteford (Diocese of Chicago and Mid-America)
Priest Andre Sikojeff (Diocese of Berlin and Germany)
Archdeacon Eugene Burbelo (Synodal Cathedral of Our Lady of the Sign, NY)
Abbess Elizabeth (St Mary Magdalene Convent, Gethsemane)
Abbess Moisseia (Ascension of the Lord Convent, Mount of Olives)
May 21: His Eminence Metropolitan Laurus will perform all-night vigil along with Archbishop German of Kursk and Schema-Metropolitan Yuvenaly in Znamensky Cathedral in Kursk.
May 22: On the Translation of the Relics of St Nicholas the Wonderworker, His Eminence will participate in the Divine Liturgy in Kursk-Root Hermitage.
May 23-28: His Eminence will perform a pilgrimage to the holy sites of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate, which will conclude with a celebration of Divine Liturgy at Holy Trinity Cathedral in Pochaev Lavra, built and consecrated by His Eminence Metropolitan Anthony (Khrapovitsky) of blessed memory. His Eminence will be accompanied on his trip to Kursk and Ukraine by Fr Serafim, Protodeacon Victor, Deacon Eugene, Deacon Nicholas, Subdeacon George, Pavel Vladimirovich Lisitsin and George Selinsky.

[Komnenos]

Glory to god!!!

[Rowan]

:clap:

[Dust and Ashes]

Glory to God!

[Matrona]

Thank God.

I just wish all the hatred, mistrust, and bitterness could be rectified so easily, though.

[RobNJ]

Glory To God!

[EmperorConstantine]

Glory to God!

:clap:

[authiodionitist]

Sorry for not posting this earlier:

LIVE WEBCAST
http://www.corbina.tv/transmission/
click on the РТР Планета (http://corbina.tv/players/tv.php?channel=tv13) channel.

Right now they're at the beginning of the prayers in hope of the consecreation....

[Oblio]

I've asked this before, but now that reunion is imminent, what will happen to the Old Believers that joined the ROCOR ?

[Khaleas]

I've asked this before, but now that reunion is imminent, what will happen to the Old Believers that joined the ROCOR ?
Economia. All in all right now very little will change other than concelebration and communion.
Example, me going to confession with my spiritual father won't count the next weekend when I attend the local ROCOR church. So if I want to partake at the ROCOR church I will have to have two priests who I go to confession with. It's rather annoying but I don't want two spiritual fathers and I'll just deal even if it means partaking less frequently. Of course I can always trot over to the Greek church...

[Sothron]

This is great news. It was a tragedy that the split happened in the first place and now things are where they should be. Glory to God!

[Matrona]

Economia. All in all right now very little will change other than concelebration and communion.

Is it true that some ROCOR bishops aren't going to permit concelebration? I've been asking but nobody is giving me a straight answer. And I know some people in ROCOR are choosing to go into schism rather than accept the intercommunion.

Example, me going to confession with my spiritual father won't count the next weekend when I attend the local ROCOR church. So if I want to partake at the ROCOR church I will have to have two priests who I go to confession with. It's rather annoying but I don't want two spiritual fathers and I'll just deal even if it means partaking less frequently. Of course I can always trot over to the Greek church...

Ugh!

I had been thinking about going to the ROCOR church at some point now that we're in communion, but this, and the thing about concelebration above, make me kind of skittish. Why should a ROCOR priest's confession be any more special or holy than going to an Antiochian or OCA priest?

[Xpycoctomos]

Thank God.

I just wish all the hatred, mistrust, and bitterness could be rectified so easily, though.
It 2will be over time. on the lay level there is a lot more trust and a lot less bitterness than on the clerical level. These priests will soon have 1) a change of heart or 2) realistically, they will leave this earth in a generation. Honestyly, on the lay level, most MP and ROCOR want this desperately, at least in the diaspora. I would be curious about how this is going in Russia.

I am elated... absolutely elated that we are finally one. That tomorrow, if I wanted, I could go to any ROCOR Church and, assuming the priest considers me as having prepared properly, partake at the Church. The politics is messed up and todays reunion will not fix all of that iun a snap, but I hope as Orthodox we can learn from this that politics is never a good reason to separate or keep separated. It's down right stupidity. The Holy Spirit was truly at work in the hearts of the men on both sides. Praise God!

John

[EmperorConstantine]

Example, me going to confession with my spiritual father won't count the next weekend when I attend the local ROCOR church. So if I want to partake at the ROCOR church I will have to have two priests who I go to confession with. It's rather annoying but I don't want two spiritual fathers and I'll just deal even if it means partaking less frequently. Of course I can always trot over to the Greek church...
Why two priests?

I'm a little confused on this one.:scratch:

[Matrona]

I am elated... absolutely elated that we are finally one. That tomorrow, if I wanted, I could go to any ROCOR Church and, assuming the priest considers me as having prepared properly, partake at the Church. The politics is messed up and todays reunion will not fix all of that iun a snap, but I hope as Orthodox we can learn from this that politics is never a good reason to separate or keep separated. It's down right stupidity. The Holy Spirit was truly at work in the hearts of the men on both sides. Praise God!

Most of my elation is 'yay, they're saying stuff about my church on national news'. http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070517/wl_afp/russiareligionorthodox

Personally, I won't be able to bring myself to believe in the reunification until I see the local OCA and ROCOR priests hug and then concelebrate liturgy, partaking from the same chalice.

[Xpycoctomos]

I've asked this before, but now that reunion is imminent, what will happen to the Old Believers that joined the ROCOR ?
im·mi·nent /ˈɪmhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngəhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngnənt/
1.likely to occur at any moment; impending: Her death is imminent. 2.projecting or leaning forward; overhanging.


I don't mean to be a stickler, but being that this has already taken place (9.30 Russian time), it's no longer imminent but a present reality :):):) Just wanted to point ou thtat happy and perhaps unbelievable fact!!!!!

Glory to God!

[Oblio]

LOL, I was 'afraid' that might be the case, I am happy to have been corrected :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Xpycoctomos]

Is it true that some ROCOR bishops aren't going to permit concelebration? I've been asking but nobody is giving me a straight answer. And I know some people in ROCOR are choosing to go into schism rather than accept the intercommunion.

I'm sorry, didn't see the question earlier. Where did you read they wouldn't be. I mean, i am sure there are some that won't out of pride or perhaps just because they are not comfortable concelbrating with priests from other jurisdictions (pragmatically, the two are still different jurisdictions becuase the differences still exist). It's can be very stressful to serve with another priest who follows different small t traditions. So while concelebrating is great for morale it isn't necessary (although I agree with what I think is your sentiment, that concelebrations are important). Surely there are those priests that refuse because of less dignified reasons of pride suborness, but I don't think they are the rule.

I had been thinking about going to the ROCOR church at some point now that we're in communion, but this, and the thing about concelebration above, make me kind of skittish.
I certainly discourage you from going to one. However, realize that many of them may not allow you to come to communion unless you have done confession with them. This is not because you are Antiochian. If you were a visitor from another ROCOR parish they would do the same. The thing is that they believe that you should never go to communion without going to confession first and they know that most churches don't ask this of you. Other ROCOR priests will just ask you when you're last confession was and if you say yesterday they will just take your word for it and assume you have prepared yourself correctly.

So, please keep this in mind if they deny you communion and just talk to the priest ahead of time. Most of them are very nice people (sorry, I'm not trying to patronize, I'm not sure how much personal experience you've had with the ROCOR) although there are always exceptions. Maybe ask your priest first how you should go about this. He may already know the ROCOR priest and what he's like.

NOW, if you ask ROCOR (and MP) priests about their OPINION of the reunion, all will have strong opinions on it (either for or against), but most will accept it, I think, as the will of the holy spirit. There are a lot of things I have a hard time justifying in the Church (liek the Coptic/Orthodox separation)... but I accept it as the will of the Holy Spirit and obey it. Equally, most all will obey the reunification if not whole-heartedly rejoice in it. Of course, there are those who won't accept it. And they will eventually warm up to it... or go schismatic, but what does this have to do with ROCOR? Nothing. ROCOR is part of the MP and nothing else.

Why should a ROCOR priest's confession be any more special or holy than going to an Antiochian or OCA priest?

It isn't. I think Khaela just likes that priest a lot.

This really is a lot more accepted on the Lay level (which is most important for a good beginning) than is being reported. And priests, while perhaps skeptical, are happy with the move forward.

I hope that helped calm some fears. I also hope you didn't take my post as a lecture. While I do not know all that goes on, if you are friends with an MP priest, it is easy to be "in" on what's really going on beacuse the MP is SUCH a small world in the US. There are no well-kept secrets in this world. lol God bless and continue to rejoice in this happy moment!

John

[Xpycoctomos]

This is great news. It was a tragedy that the split happened in the first place and now things are where they should be. Glory to God!
yeha, I don't think healing could have furthered without this.

[RobNJ]

I hope that helped calm some fears. I also hope you didn't take my post as a lecture. While I do not know all that goes on, if you are friends with an MP priest, it is easy to be "in" on what's really going on beacuse the MP is SUCH a small world in the US. There are no well-kept secrets in this world. lol God bless and continue to rejoice in this happy moment!

John

And while I've yet to visit, I've actually got this "little" MP place closer than I've been able to find a ROCOR
http://www.3saints.com/

[Xpycoctomos]

And while I've yet to visit, I've actually got this "little" MP place closer than I've been able to find a ROCOR
http://www.3saints.com/
Whoa, they a have a place you can go and type in names of people you wish them to pray for at the next liturgy. That is so great!

[RobNJ]

Whoa, they a have a place you can go and type in names of people you wish them to pray for at the next liturgy. That is so great!


Look at the MP3 links.... you'll get a "404 error message" in Russian!

[Xpycoctomos]

Look at the MP3 links.... you'll get a "404 error message" in Russian!
lol.. and it's a Church in the US! lol that's so... MP of them.

[ufonium2]

We attend a Bulgarian parish pretty often, and it's their policy that everyone who is going to commune will go to confession either the night before or the morning of communion. We respect that as their tradition, as does our home priest, and so we confess to the Bulgarian priest when we visit. It's not an unheard-of practice even outside of ROCOR, and it's not necessarily indicative of a bad relationship with other parishes or clergy.

[Xpycoctomos]

We attend a Bulgarian parish pretty often, and it's their policy that everyone who is going to commune will go to confession either the night before or the morning of communion. We respect that as their tradition, as does our home priest, and so we confess to the Bulgarian priest when we visit. It's not an unheard-of practice even outside of ROCOR, and it's not necessarily indicative of a bad relationship with other parishes or clergy.
Exactly... actually, this is what our priests strongly recommends of all of us. But he knows that some people are from different traditions and does want to create a stumbling block for them. But, he says that if they wish to commune, they must go at the very least once a month. I practice the every week confession when I am able and I have only found blessings from it. But even if I disagreed on some level, I would obey it anyhow. That priest will one day have to answer for how he administered the eucharist and other sacraments so we need to respect their wishes (if they are in line with the Church) becuase this is also about THEIR salvation.

[Khaleas]

CF apparently ate my reply. Basically the ROCOR priest here requires confession before each communion while my MP priest requires it once a month although I tend to go about twice a month if I'm in the area a lot. I prefer to go to the spiritual father that I have an established relationship with for confession and not have two spiritual fathers even if it means partaking a bit more seldom. If I want to partake, I can putter over to the Greeks or so. I'm hoping that when Father visits here he can work something out with the ROCOR priest down here.
I have heard of one bishop who is going into schism (cannot remember the name) but it's been known for a long time that he wouldn't be joining in the unification so it wasn't anything new. And who knows, things could have changed since November when we had talks at our church about the re-establishment of communion.

[Michael the Iconographer]

God bless the Hierarchs of the 2 churches for coming this far in healing the wounds. It will take time and some careful work on both sides to completely heal the wounds caused by 80 years of division, but this is a great step in that direction!

[Michael the Iconographer]

Back to the OP, I personally have no issue with going to confession before liturgy and attending a ROCOR parish. The ROCOR parish I attended a few times was quite lovely, and the parishioners there were very friendly and open to my visiting with them. The priest was a model of Christian love and while their church was small and very modest, it had a very Orthodox and inviting feel to it and I am glad I was given the opportunity to pray with them when I was able to.

[Nickolai]

I've asked this before, but now that reunion is imminent, what will happen to the Old Believers that joined the ROCOR ?

Nothing will happen to them. They'll pretty much just stay the way they are. The Church of the Nativity (Old Rite) is the only Old Believer parush in the ROCOR, and I know for a fact that all of the clergy of that Church (except for maybe Bishop Daniel) support the union becuase I asked them myself.

The Moscow Patriarchate already has a bunch of Old Believer parishes under them, so this doesn't present a problem.

[Michael the Iconographer]

Nothing will happen to them. They'll pretty much just stay the way they are. The Church of the Nativity (Old Rite) is the only Old Believer parush in the ROCOR, and I know for a fact that all of the clergy of that Church (except for maybe Bishop Daniel) support the union becuase I asked them myself.

The Moscow Patriarchate already has a bunch of Old Believer parishes under them, so this doesn't present a problem.
So the status of the priestless Old Believers will not change?

[Nickolai]

So the status of the priestless Old Believers will not change?

Well the priestless ones are a different matter altogether. But Oblio asked about the ones under ROCOR, who are priested.

[Matrona]

We attend a Bulgarian parish pretty often, and it's their policy that everyone who is going to commune will go to confession either the night before or the morning of communion. We respect that as their tradition, as does our home priest, and so we confess to the Bulgarian priest when we visit. It's not an unheard-of practice even outside of ROCOR, and it's not necessarily indicative of a bad relationship with other parishes or clergy.

It's not that I would have something against following their pre-communion guidelines, I'd just have a problem if they didn't think going to a non-ROCOR priest for that confession was good enough. I'm glad that's not the case. But I have a hang-up about going to regular confession to more than one priest, which is why I'd prefer to go to my own.

[Michael the Iconographer]

Well the priestless ones are a different matter altogether. But Oblio asked about the ones under ROCOR, who are priested.
Right, I didn't know if Moscow was going to make an attempt to reach out to the priestless Old Believers as well?

[Michael the Iconographer]

We attend a Bulgarian parish pretty often, and it's their policy that everyone who is going to commune will go to confession either the night before or the morning of communion. We respect that as their tradition, as does our home priest, and so we confess to the Bulgarian priest when we visit. It's not an unheard-of practice even outside of ROCOR, and it's not necessarily indicative of a bad relationship with other parishes or clergy.
When I did confess to the ROCOR priest he was always very quick to make sure that what he was telling me did not contradict what my spiritual father told me. The way I look at it, a good confession can never hurt you. Thus if they want me to confess to receive, then so be it.

[Matrona]

I think she is just expressing concerns. She was getting the feeling that perhaps ROCOR really wasn't on board with this totally. No one wants to go to a Church where they feel they are going to be shut down simply due to their jurisdiction.

Yeah, I am a mama-bear for the Antiochians. :D There's nothing I hate more than Antioch-bashing, except maybe priest-bashing. I just wanted to make sure it had nothing to do with that.

[Nickolai]

Right, I didn't know if Moscow was going to make an attempt to reach out to the priestless Old Believers as well?

I know that they've been talking about it. KIRILL of Smolenk in particular. They already have a bunch of Old Rite communities in the MP (One of them is right down the street from Christ the Savior Cathedral in Moscow). But to reach out to the priestless ones as a whole is very hard. Sometimes they are just too stubborn. I know one in Pittsburgh (who you probably know as well Michael) who is just hard to deal with sometimes.

[Michael the Iconographer]

I will state this clearly, for everyone to read. I am an Orthodox Christian. Notice, I did not put a tag on it such as OCA, Antiochian, Greek, Ukranian, etc. Nor do I ever plan to do so. I rejoice to see the wounds in the Church healing and am apalled when new wounds are created, such as adding a 5th canonical bishop to a city when there are plenty of other good places to put a bishop for your jurisdiction. God bless the bishops of the MP and ROCOR for what they have done.

[Michael the Iconographer]

I know that they've been talking about it. KIRILL of Smolenk in particular. They already have a bunch of Old Rite communities in the MP (One of them is right down the street from Christ the Savior Cathedral in Moscow). But to reach out to the priestless ones as a whole is very hard. Sometimes they are just too stubborn. I know one in Pittsburgh (who you probably know as well Michael) who is just hard to deal with sometimes.

Yeah, I know all about that schism and it was formed out of stubborness, and a refusal to change. I guess the most we can do is hope the Church does what it can to reach out to them and be as charitable to them as possible in our dealings with them and pray God has mercy upon them.

[Nickolai]

Yeah, I know all about that schism and it was formed out of stubborness, and a refusal to change. I guess the most we can do is hope the Church does what it can to reach out to them and be as charitable to them as possible in our dealings with them and pray God has mercy upon them.

Well the Old Believer schism had a lot more to it than just the stubbornness of the Old Believers. Both sides are to blame for what happened, and Nikon was very un-pastoral in what he did.

But that's probably a good topic for another thread.

[Matrona]

Well the Old Believer schism had a lot more to it than just the stubbornness of the Old Believers. Both sides are to blame for what happened, and Nikon was very un-pastoral in what he did.

But that's probably a good topic for another thread.

Didn't the same Synod that upheld the Nikonian reforms also condemn Nikon himself for his brutality in enforcing them?

IIRC they deposed him and shipped him off to a monastery.

[Nickolai]

Didn't the same Synod that upheld the Nikonian reforms also condemn Nikon himself for his brutality in enforcing them?

IIRC they deposed him and shipped him off to a monastery.

You are correct. He enforced them with violence. But aside from this, Nikon was told by several other patriarchates that it wasn't even necessary to do the reform in the first place. Nothing in the Old Rite was heretical or even wrong, he just wanted to line up with the Greeks for political reasons if I remember correctly. The Old Believers weren't wrong to object, but they were wrong to go into schism over it.

[Michael the Iconographer]

Well the Old Believer schism had a lot more to it than just the stubbornness of the Old Believers. Both sides are to blame for what happened, and Nikon was very un-pastoral in what he did.

But that's probably a good topic for another thread.
Yes, you are right. Nikhon handled the whole situation completely wrong.

[Tsarina]

No one posted it yet, so I thought I'd bring it up first. Tomorrow the long standing split will finally be ended.

I watched the joint service online until 5am in the morning.

The service they had together was truly amazing. ROCOR and MP took communion together and thousands of people attended the service.

How wonderful. Glory to God. :crosseo:

[Xpycoctomos]

It's not that I would have something against following their pre-communion guidelines, I'd just have a problem if they didn't think going to a non-ROCOR priest for that confession was good enough. I'm glad that's not the case. But I have a hang-up about going to regular confession to more than one priest, which is why I'd prefer to go to my own.
yeah, from what I've learned the IDEAL is to stick primarily with one priest for confession (to build a relationship). It's like going to a doctor. IT's good to have one family doctor that you go to so he can more easily recongnize problems that arise due to past illnesses, etc.

However, just like you, I'm certainly not judging anyone who does otherwise, especially if they have the approval of their Spiritual Father. I know my priest doesn't mind if I go to other priests for confession, but I would feel wierd going to another regularly.

John

[EmperorConstantine]

Didn't the same Synod that upheld the Nikonian reforms also condemn Nikon himself for his brutality in enforcing them?

IIRC they deposed him and shipped him off to a monastery.
That's Orthodox justice right there! :D

[Michael the Iconographer]

You are correct. He enforced them with violence. But aside from this, Nikon was told by several other patriarchates that it wasn't even necessary to do the reform in the first place. Nothing in the Old Rite was heretical or even wrong, he just wanted to line up with the Greeks for political reasons if I remember correctly. The Old Believers weren't wrong to object, but they were wrong to go into schism over it.
In a way, Nikhon was very much like Peter the Great in that he didn't like the way Russians did things and wanted to be more like the Greeks (or in Peter the Great's case, the Germans.)

[Matrona]

yeah, from what I've learned the IDEAL is to stick primarily with one priest for confession (to build a relationship). It's like going to a doctor. IT's good to have one family doctor that you go to so he can more easily recongnize problems that arise due to past illnesses, etc.

That's right, and that's why I stick to one priest. (And also to keep my sins under as few hats as possible. :D )

However, just like you, I'm certainly not judging anyone who does otherwise, especially if they have the approval of their Spiritual Father. I know my priest doesn't mind if I go to other priests for confession, but I would feel wierd going to another regularly.

Yeah, and I didn't want to come across like I was judging ROCOR for tending towards stricter pre-communion requirements (I'm happy about that, actually), it's just that it sounded like they weren't cool with confessions done by non-ROCOR Orthodox priests, and that wouldn't have been cool with me. Fortunately, everything seems to be groovy. ;)

[RobNJ]

TV new coverage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb9WD7BCFn4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_CRMbwnitc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zF4CwTLqvs

:thumbsup: