"REVELATION UNVEILED"..It will shake your world..

[GregKerr]

The Fifth Book of Jesus, Revelation, is closure. It was given to the Apostle John by Jesus, through an Angel. This Book was the last book written (about sixty-five years after Jesus ascended into heaven) and agrees perfectly with the first four books of Jesus(Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) and is the old testament in a capsule. Jesus once again states His foundational truths...To be Born Again--Rev.12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her OFFSPRING, who keep the COMMANDMENTS OF GOD and have the testimony of Jesus Christ...To be a Saint --Rev.14:12 Here is the patience of the Saints, here are THOSE WHO KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD and the faith of Jesus...To enter into Heaven--Rev. 22:14 Blessed are THOSE WHO KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the CITY. Jesus always taught these foundational truths, which for the most part are not being taught today. It seems many of the books between the Gospels and Revelation are being used incorrectly to destroy this Covenant. (Ten Commandments are in Exodus 20)

[TheCosmicGospel]

So unless you keep the commandments, you are not going to enter into heaven?

I thought Jesus saved us by the word of the cross? He came to save sinners who couldn't keep the commandments? And if we can keep the commandments, we don't need Jesus.

We need to improve upon His work? Hmmmm.

Look at Eph. 2:13-16

Isn't Revelation all about the Lamb who was slain who now begins His reign?

The commandments of God are His precepts, divine plan, culmination of th work of the Son whereby those in faith in Christ are saved. These are not the 10 Commandments of Ex. 20.

I suggest a word study of "commandments" and you will begin to see this.

Those who were far off were brought near, not by keeping the 10 Commandments better, but by the blood of the Lamb who was slain.

Peace,
Cos

[Artificial Intelligence]

Told by an angel? Mmm John was caught-up in the spirit to witness these things. I believe he was literally taken to the future scenes and wrote down what he saw. Someone like Joseph Smith, now he was told by an angel (concerning Mormonism) though that angel that told him those things, if there was one, was undoubtedly a fallen angel.

As for the commandments, which ones? The 10 commandments, the two greatest commandments which generally quantify the 10, or the new commandment? If your Church does not teach the whole bible, then time to look for a Church that does because there are quite a few that replace the gospel with psychology and feel good sermons to boost attendance.

[GregKerr]

So unless you keep the commandments, you are not going to enter into heaven?

I thought Jesus saved us by the word of the cross? He came to save sinners who couldn't keep the commandments? And if we can keep the commandments, we don't need Jesus.

We need to improve upon His work? Hmmmm.

Look at Eph. 2:13-16

Isn't Revelation all about the Lamb who was slain who now begins His reign?

The commandments of God are His precepts, divine plan, culmination of th work of the Son whereby those in faith in Christ are saved. These are not the 10 Commandments of Ex. 20.

I suggest a word study of "commandments" and you will begin to see this.

Those who were far off were brought near, not by keeping the 10 Commandments better, but by the blood of the Lamb who was slain.

Peace,
Cos
Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple. REVELATION 11:19 NKJV THIS IS THE ORIGINAL ARK, MOSES WAS TOLD BY GOD TO MAKE A COPY OF THE ONE IN HEAVEN.....YES WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE TEN COMMANDMENTS

[pdfiddler]

If the fulfillment of the 10 Cmmandments has not been rote in you,you aint a going no where no how.

[aspirine]

God does make it clear that if you are with Him you are to keep His commandments throughout all of the Torah and the books of the prophets and the stories about the Hebrews. Jesus said if you love me and the father keep the commandments - I think i remember that as being in mark or matt.


I guess it gets down to are you going to believe the letters of a man who never met jesus in the flesh or all of the other prophets of God, including the ones who channeled Gods word directly, you know guys like Ezekiel.

[The Lord is my banner]

I can't keep the commandments. What shall I do?
Can YOU keep them all?

Do you fall at one only? Then you cannot, by your own claim, enter heaven.
Heaven could be very empty unless you are wrong.

I am already seated in heaven with Christ, hallelujah! HE did this FOR me.

Romans 3:10 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=3&verse=10&version=31&context=verse)
As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one


Romans 3:20 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=3&verse=20&version=31&context=verse)
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

Romans 5:19 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=5&verse=19&version=31&context=verse)
For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Jesus cleansed me of my sin, He alone saves me for that Day, He alone is my righteousness.

[The Lord is my banner]

God's GRACE to you will certainly shake your world if you can grasp it. Wow, glorious!

[arielette]

So far this is my understanding of faith and the law. The means of redemption for the fall was present in the understanding of men of God since the beginning of time. As the story of the human race unfolded, Moses was given the commandments, which were legally binding, but all men fell short of keeping it. Only Christ could and he fulfilled the law, in that we no longer are required to do sacrifice for sin. Christ explained to us that the law could be summed up, as love the Lord God with all your heart and all your soul and love your neighbor as yourself.

We are justified now through faith, not works, though the gift of the Holy Spirit, given to us on the day of Pentecost. Even before that, men of God always were justified by faith. Paul writes a great deal about the circumcision of the heart and not the flesh, because some were obsessed with being seen to keep the law. Jesus himself while he was with men in the flesh, pointed out the hypocrisies of these law keepers, who if you scratched their surface, were evil and sinful.

I believe the meaning of the law is probably deeper than most people understand. Most are revolted by some aspect of it such as stoning for certain transgressions and secretly edit it in their own mind to fit a modern time line. Saying that, It has also made clear to us in God's Word, that the law by being fulfilled, is not null and void. It's not over, we are just the living evidence of it's completion.

Romans 3 23-31

23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—

26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith.



28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.



29Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too,


30since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.


31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

[GregKerr]

God does make it clear that if you are with Him you are to keep His commandments throughout all of the Torah and the books of the prophets and the stories about the Hebrews. Jesus said if you love me and the father keep the commandments - I think i remember that as being in mark or matt.


I guess it gets down to are you going to believe the letters of a man who never met jesus in the flesh or all of the other prophets of God, including the ones who channeled Gods word directly, you know guys like Ezekiel.
You are on your way into truth...actually the 10 commandments are referred to around 30 times by Jesus in the four gospels and Revelation.....

[GregKerr]

I can't keep the commandments. What shall I do?
Can YOU keep them all?

Do you fall at one only? Then you cannot, by your own claim, enter heaven.
Heaven could be very empty unless you are wrong.

I am already seated in heaven with Christ, hallelujah! HE did this FOR me.

Romans 3:10 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=3&verse=10&version=31&context=verse)
As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one


Romans 3:20 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=3&verse=20&version=31&context=verse)
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

Romans 5:19 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=5&verse=19&version=31&context=verse)
For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Jesus cleansed me of my sin, He alone saves me for that Day, He alone is my righteousness.
Let me give you an understanding... the Covenant of the Ten Commandments is like a foundation stone, a person who agrees in their heart to keep this covenant stands upon this rock which is Christ. It is true that we are all sinners and that no one can perfectly keep this covenant. Now for those in Covenant with God who sin, can repent...repentance is I am sorry I did it, I won't do it again, at which point God says I am forgiven and I am back in covenant where I want to be. Here is the problem for the person who does not keep the covenant, in other words there are one or more commandments that they do not keep as a way of life. There is no repentance....they can't say I'm sorry I broke it I won't break it again, they dont keep that commandment as a way of life, they can't repent.....Remember the difference between the old covenant and the new covenant is blood of animals verses the blood of Jesus, commandments were written on stone verses the commandments written in your heart.....(another basic principle for you and all who truly want to know God and His teachings....you can never take a teaching of Paul to overide a teaching of Christ...lets face it He never met Jesus, lived in the same local at the same time and was not chosen by Jesus to be an apostle nor even a disciple) "we are bound by the teachings of Christ"

[The Lord is my banner]

Jesus is the foundation stone I need. The commandments certainly outline the way God wants us to live, I’m not saying we should not, but I am saying that you mislead people by telling them their obedience to it causes God to accept them or to bless them and so on.

I agree we live in an attitude of desiring to please Him and of repenting - ie. Changing our way of thinking to line up with His – renewing our minds to truth.

When we sin, we do not lose touch with God until we repent, otherwise we’d be in trouble. He doesn’t break His covenant with us and then renew it after we repent. It is constant because it never depended on me.

As for Paul, he was indeed a chosen apostle of Christ, and he did meet the Lord Jesus in person, albeit after the ascension of the Lord.

Christ’s teaching of the Law took place before His cross, and applied to those under the Old Covenant in place at that time. We live in the New Covenant.

Jesus kept the entire Law for me because He knows I am unable to do anything even close to it.

[aspirine]

I can't keep the commandments. What shall I do?
Can YOU keep them all?

Do you fall at one only? Then you cannot, by your own claim, enter heaven.
Heaven could be very empty unless you are wrong.

I am already seated in heaven with Christ, hallelujah! HE did this FOR me.

Romans 3:10 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=3&verse=10&version=31&context=verse)
As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one


Romans 3:20 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=3&verse=20&version=31&context=verse)
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

Romans 5:19 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=5&verse=19&version=31&context=verse)
For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Jesus cleansed me of my sin, He alone saves me for that Day, He alone is my righteousness.
Can you show me anywhere in the writings of the Prophets of God where they said God demanded perfectionism? Can you show me anywhere in the writings of the Prophets of God where God says He will not forgive the truly repentent individual? Perfectionism is not promoted by any of the prophets but is a Paulist selling point. Paul was not that good of a Torah student.

GregKerr, nice post, however nonanimal sacrifices were also acceptable for sin offerings, and they were symbolic anyway. The offerings are of no effect if the heart is not changed. Also I am not sure that the sacrifices were for individual sins against God or if they were for group sins and sins against Mosaic and Priestly law. Maybe some one knows about this?

[TheCosmicGospel]

What were the 10 commandments? They were the expression of God's will for us how to live. But the ultimate expression of God's will came in Jesus Christ and how we are saved in Him.

"I came not to do My will but the will of My Father."

"This is My beloved Son in Whom I am well pleased."

I keep the 10 Commandments by belieivng in Him who was sent to keep them perfectly for me. This is the only option for someone who is a sinner like me.

"Where sin abounds, grace abounds all the more."

"It is finished." We cannot add anything to what Jesus has done for us to bring us into the Kingdom.

Jesus is the "Lamb that was slain" throughout the Book of Revelation. His being slain and His rising to life again is why I believe I shall one day sit before Him on His throne. This is God's ultimate will.

Peace,
Cos

[GregKerr]

Jesus is the foundation stone I need. The commandments certainly outline the way God wants us to live, I’m not saying we should not, but I am saying that you mislead people by telling them their obedience to it causes God to accept them or to bless them and so on.

I agree we live in an attitude of desiring to please Him and of repenting - ie. Changing our way of thinking to line up with His – renewing our minds to truth.

When we sin, we do not lose touch with God until we repent, otherwise we’d be in trouble. He doesn’t break His covenant with us and then renew it after we repent. It is constant because it never depended on me.

As for Paul, he was indeed a chosen apostle of Christ, and he did meet the Lord Jesus in person, albeit after the ascension of the Lord.

Christ’s teaching of the Law took place before His cross, and applied to those under the Old Covenant in place at that time. We live in the New Covenant.

Jesus kept the entire Law for me because He knows I am unable to do anything even close to it.
Paul was not one of the twelve apostles and there are only twelve apostles of The Lamb. The qualifications for being an apostle are stated in the beginning of the book of Acts where Judas was to be replaced. To even be considered to be an apostle you had to have been with Jesus from the time He was Baptised by John the Baptist until Jesus ascended into Heaven. Mathias is Apostle number twelve not Paul, Paul never met Him.
Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. Rev. 21:14 REMEMBER the original ark is in heaven Rev. 11:19 The difference between the old covenant and the new are...old... blood of animal, commandments written on tablets of stone...new...blood of Christ, commandments written on our hearts....(SAME COMMANDMENTS)

[The Lord is my banner]

Paul repeatedly refers to himself as an apostle, AND states he met the risen Christ.

[GregKerr]

Paul repeatedly refers to himself as an apostle, AND states he met the risen Christ.
Some things are hard to receive....Paul did not qualify to be an apostle of the Lamb, nor was he chosen by Jesus to be an apostle or even a disciple. He lived at the same time and in the same local. Let me give you an understanding.... when the Master got through teaching there was nothing left to say....in the new testament the apostles of Jesus have almost nothing to say because they could not improve or add to what the Master taught them being with him for three and a half years, His entire ministry, for the rest of their lives they repeated what they were taught by Jesus who covered it all. If there was something we needed to know and Jesus didn't cover it perhaps He was not who He claimed to be and we should look for another. But He did cover it all. Paul, never having met Jesus had a lot to say, he wrote two-thirds of the new testament and had a lot more to say than Jesus.....you be the judge

[The Lord is my banner]

I have received and understood a LOT on the forums over the past 3 years, but I do NOT receive from people who come along with an attitude of "I know best and you know nothing". You are really annoying you know? I might possibly learn sopmething from you if you didn't try to boss folks around and make out you know it all.

[arielette]

Romans 1

Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God—

[GregKerr]

I have received and understood a LOT on the forums over the past 3 years, but I do NOT receive from people who come along with an attitude of "I know best and you know nothing". You are really annoying you know? I might possibly learn sopmething from you if you didn't try to boss folks around and make out you know it all.
I don't know it all by a long shot...If I have come across as having an attitude I don't mean to. The statements I make on this forum and others are basic understandings that I have been teaching for many years. Forgive me if it sounds like I don't care, I do care and that is why apart from my full time teaching and healing ministry I try to bring truth to believers like yourself, whom I will probably will never meet, so that you may be used on a higher and higher level by God. Sometimes I just have enough time to give believers facts without elaborating on them.....your friend Greg Kerr

[The Lord is my banner]

I'm sorry Gregg. I'll butt out of your threads, we disagree but I am wrong to make an issue of it. I've been not quite myself this week.
Peace to you brother.

[MarkEvan]

Some things are hard to receive....Paul did not qualify to be an apostle of the Lamb, nor was he chosen by Jesus to be an apostle or even a disciple. He lived at the same time and in the same local. Let me give you an understanding.... when the Master got through teaching there was nothing left to say....in the new testament the apostles of Jesus have almost nothing to say because they could not improve or add to what the Master taught them being with him for three and a half years, His entire ministry, for the rest of their lives they repeated what they were taught by Jesus who covered it all. If there was something we needed to know and Jesus didn't cover it perhaps He was not who He claimed to be and we should look for another. But He did cover it all. Paul, never having met Jesus had a lot to say, he wrote two-thirds of the new testament and had a lot more to say than Jesus.....you be the judge



I am intruiged, why do you not accept at least some of the teachings of Paul?


Paul, never having met Jesus had a lot to say, he wrote two-thirds of the new testament and had a lot more to say than Jesus.....you be the judge


Peter (someone who did know Christ in the flesh) knew of Paul and had this to say of him;

2 Peter 3 vs 15+

"And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paulalso wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand (notice he doesn`t say wrong), which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction."

Paul was an Apostle the same as the twelve,

Acts 9 vs 15+

"But the LORD said to him, "go,for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name befor the gentiles and and kings of the children of Israel. For I will shoe=w him how much he will suffer for my name.""

God himself said Paul was chosen by Him. Bear that in mind when you disreguard what he teaches.

Mark

[Jeremiah8]

Gregkerr, if you are truly born again (i'm not questioning your salvation!) then you will have the 10 commandments written on your heart (amongst others) and you do realise we are under a new covenant right ?!!

[Jeremiah8]

Paul was not one of the twelve apostles and there are only twelve apostles of The Lamb. The qualifications for being an apostle are stated in the beginning of the book of Acts where Judas was to be replaced. To even be considered to be an apostle you had to have been with Jesus from the time He was Baptised by John the Baptist until Jesus ascended into Heaven. Mathias is Apostle number twelve not Paul, Paul never met Him.
Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. Rev. 21:14 REMEMBER the original ark is in heaven Rev. 11:19 The difference between the old covenant and the new are...old... blood of animal, commandments written on tablets of stone...new...blood of Christ, commandments written on our hearts....(SAME COMMANDMENTS)

Wow, something tells me your opinion on Paul is just an excuse not to agree with some of his more challenging teachings! Tell me, where do you get your opinion (as that is all it is) on the qualifications needed to become an apostle ?!

To be an apostle you have to have met Jesus, "the road to Damascus" ring a bell ?!! God is soon to release many apostles upon the earth, be careful you don't find yourself kicking against the goads !!

[Tavita]

It seems many of the books between the Gospels and Revelation are being used incorrectly to destroy this Covenant. (Ten Commandments are in Exodus 20)

You say they're being used incorrectly. What do you mean by that statement? Do you believe they're true and we're interpreting them wrongly or that they shouldn't be in the NT? Some Hebrew Roots advocates have been teaching that Paul's epistles shouldn't be in the NT.. are you into the Hebrew Roots movement?


Gregkerr, if you are truly born again (i'm not questioning your salvation!) then you will have the 10 commandments written on your heart (amongst others) and you do realise we are under a new covenant right ?!!

This is true. Gregkerr, do you not remember that God said because man could not keep His commandments he would make a new covenant and write His commandments on the heart?


Jer 31:31 "Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,
Jer 31:32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them," declares the LORD.
Jer 31:33 "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

If we're walking closely with the Lord then HE will live out is life within us and cause us to walk in His ways.It's a matter of looking unto Jesus, and walking in the Spirit. When we are loving God and loving our neighbor then we are fulfilling the Law, as Jesus taught in the Beatitudes. It comes down to love, and that was the whole point of the Law anyway.

[GregKerr]

Wow, something tells me your opinion on Paul is just an excuse not to agree with some of his more challenging teachings! Tell me, where do you get your opinion (as that is all it is) on the qualifications needed to become an apostle ?!

To be an apostle you have to have met Jesus, "the road to Damascus" ring a bell ?!! God is soon to release many apostles upon the earth, be careful you don't find yourself kicking against the goads !!
20 "For it is written in the book of Psalms: 'Let his dwelling place be desolate, And let no one live in it'; and, 'Let another take his office.'
21 "Therefore, of these men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
22 "beginning from the baptism of John to that day when He was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection."
23 And they proposed two: Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
24 And they prayed and said, "You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two You have chosen
25 "to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place."
26 And they cast their lots, and the lot fell on Matthias. And he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
Acts 1:20-26 (NKJV)

[DArceri]

I don't know it all by a long shot...If I have come across as having an attitude I don't mean to. The statements I make on this forum and others are basic understandings that I have been teaching for many years.

Who are you? Is your authority above Paul of the bible? Did not James, Peter, John and all the Apostles, with the help of the Holy Spirit, have meetings to discuss all issues brought forth.

[MarkEvan]

1In the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen (who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch) and Saul. 2While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, "Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them." 3So after they had fasted and prayed, they placed their hands on them and sent them off.
4The two of them, sent on their way by the Holy Spirit, went down to Seleucia and sailed from there to Cyprus. 5When they arrived at Salamis, they proclaimed the word of God in the Jewish synagogues. John was with them as their helper.




"And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paulalso wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand (notice he doesn`t say wrong), which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction."





"But the LORD said to him, "go,for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name befor the gentiles and and kings of the children of Israel. For I will shoe=w him how much he will suffer for my name.""




Hello Greg maybe you missed my post earlier, but I included the verses in this one so that you could tell us how you view them, and why you believe Paul to be wrong?

also do not for get that Paul was taught by personal revelation from Christ.

Mark :)

[GregKerr]

I am intruiged, why do you not accept at least some of the teachings of Paul?



Peter (someone who did know Christ in the flesh) knew of Paul and had this to say of him;

2 Peter 3 vs 15+

"And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paulalso wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand (notice he doesn`t say wrong), which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction."

Paul was an Apostle the same as the twelve,

Acts 9 vs 15+

"But the LORD said to him, "go,for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name befor the gentiles and and kings of the children of Israel. For I will shoe=w him how much he will suffer for my name.""

God himself said Paul was chosen by Him. Bear that in mind when you disreguard what he teaches.

Mark
I was born and raised a Roman Catholic, I went to Christian brothers boys schools and was a follower of Mary (thats all they ever taught about) no spiritual power, I could see no God there. I left Rome and became a protestant, Baptist, Assembly of God, etc. I became a follower of Paul (thats all they ever taught about) no spiritual power, I could see no God there, then I became a follower of the Christ of the scriptures according to His teachings(four Gospels And Revelation) Spiritual Power, anointing ......

[MarkEvan]

I was born and raised a Roman Catholic, I went to Christian brothers boys schools and was a follower of Mary (thats all they ever taught about) no spiritual power, I could see no God there. I left Rome and became a protestant, Baptist, Assembly of God, etc. I became a follower of Paul (thats all they ever taught about) no spiritual power, I could see no God there, then I became a follower of the Christ of the scriptures according to His teachings(four Gospels And Revelation) Spiritual Power, anointing ......


Thats good, Paul also says that men should not follow him but that they should follow Christ. Indeed as was if we are followers of any man other than Christ then there is no power no Spirit within, but IMO that does not mean that we disreguard all that other people (Paul, the writer to the Hebrews, Jude) say. They too were led by the Spirit and IMO teach exactly the same truths as Jesus their Lord.

Perhapse if you believe that there is somewhere where the teaching differs compared to that given by Jesus, you could show me.

Mark :)

[Tkjjc89]

Hi all :)

Since the word Apostle comes from
apostolos {ap-os'-tol-os}

1) a delegate, messenger, one sent forth with orders
a) specifically applied to the twelve apostles of Christ
b) in a broader sense applied to other eminent Christian teachers
1) of Barnabas
2) of Timothy and Silvanus

Trying to get to this level, while here on earth, would be the greatest gift bestowed upon a mortal man. We all have the inheritance freely given by Christ Jesus, to enjoy heaven for eternity. But only a few on earth ever get to the rank these men did.

Paul shows us in 1st Cor 9:1-2
1 Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord? 2 If to others I am not an apostle, at least I am to you; for you are the SEAL of my apostleship in the Lord.

This doesn't mean that the 12 Disciples (students) turned loose to give the message of Jesus(Apostles) to the world weren't in no way lifted up higher in rewards in heaven. I believe Rev makes this clear they are. No different than the 12 men who made up the 12 tribes of Israel. But rewards are given to those who go above and beyond the call of Christ. Who lay their lives down, and follow whole heartedly the teachings of the Way.

[GregKerr]

Wow, something tells me your opinion on Paul is just an excuse not to agree with some of his more challenging teachings! Tell me, where do you get your opinion (as that is all it is) on the qualifications needed to become an apostle ?!

To be an apostle you have to have met Jesus, "the road to Damascus" ring a bell ?!! God is soon to release many apostles upon the earth, be careful you don't find yourself kicking against the goads !!
Jeremiah8 In 1987 Jesus appeared to me twice and I have never called myself an apostle of the Lamb.....and the greatest mistake believers make is to believe what is taught worldwide from the teachings of Paul (I didn't say Paul taught it) saved by grace not obedience to the teachings of Christ....

[GregKerr]

I'm sorry Gregg. I'll butt out of your threads, we disagree but I am wrong to make an issue of it. I've been not quite myself this week.
Peace to you brother.
Always stand up for what you believe, search out truth, hold on only to what is solid as a rock, discard everything else....

[MarkEvan]

Jeremiah8 In 1987 Jesus appeared to me twice and I have never called myself an apostle of the Lamb.....and the greatest mistake believers make is to believe what is taught worldwide from the teachings of Paul (I didn't say Paul taught it) saved by grace not obedience to the teachings of Christ....



Gregg have you read what Paul teaches? Ephesians 2 vs 8, "for we are saved by grace through faith.....and this not of works lest any man may boast," as to obeying the teachings of Christ, if we do not obey them then we never loved Him in the first place.

Mark :)

[GregKerr]

Gregg have you read what Paul teaches? Ephesians 2 vs 8, "for we are saved by grace through faith.....and this not of works lest any man may boast," as to obeying the teachings of Christ, if we do not obey them then we never loved Him in the first place.

Mark :)
MarkEvan I am not a follower of Paul...I am a follower of Jesus who was the Christ...

[The Lord is my banner]

MarkEvan I am not a follower of Paul...I am a follower of Jesus who was the Christ...

And one major reason you came to know Him is because the New testament was written, and Paul wrote a pretty large portion of that. Throw out Paul's writings and you lose one heck of a lot of information on being a follower of Christ.

(Ooops, I came back after all! :wave: )

[JohnDB]

And one major reason you came to know Him is because the New testament was written, and Paul wrote a pretty large portion of that. Throw out Paul's writings and you lose one heck of a lot of information on being a follower of Christ.

(Ooops, I came back after all! :wave: )
yep, addicting isn't it...**snicker snicker**

[LJSGM]

I can't keep the commandments. What shall I do?
Can YOU keep them all?

Do you fall at one only? Then you cannot, by your own claim, enter heaven.
Heaven could be very empty unless you are wrong.

I am already seated in heaven with Christ, hallelujah! HE did this FOR me.

Romans 3:10 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=3&verse=10&version=31&context=verse)
As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one


Romans 3:20 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=3&verse=20&version=31&context=verse)
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

Romans 5:19 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=5&verse=19&version=31&context=verse)
For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Jesus cleansed me of my sin, He alone saves me for that Day, He alone is my righteousness.

No one is declared righteous by "knowing/seeing/observing" the law, but are righteous by "keeping" the law

Romans 2:13

13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

Matthew 23:25-27


25"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

How do we make the inside of our cup clean? By becoming born again, recieving the Holy Spirit, a new spirit, a righteousness from God, by faith in Jesus, and the outside will also be clean.

Matthew 5:20

20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven
Romans 6:18

18You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.


1 John 2:29


29If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone who does what is right has been born of him

John 3:7

7Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.

[MarkEvan]

MarkEvan I am not a follower of Paul...I am a follower of Jesus who was the Christ...


Neither am I a follower of Paul in the sense that you mean it, I am a follower of Christ.......but that does not mean that I disreguard what Paul teaches because it doesnt go with what I want to believe Jesus said, besides Jesus teaches "repent and believe the gospel for the kingdom of God is at hand," is this not the grace that Paul takes of, we are not saved by our works or obediance to the teachings of Christ, we are saved because at some point in our lives God showed us that we were living in sin contrary to the will of God and He gave us the ability to choose Him, it`s when we choose Him that he sends us His Spirit and we are born again.



I am intruiged, why do you not accept at least some of the teachings of Paul?



Peter (someone who did know Christ in the flesh) knew of Paul and had this to say of him;

2 Peter 3 vs 15+

"And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paulalso wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand (notice he doesn`t say wrong), which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction."

Paul was an Apostle the same as the twelve,

Acts 9 vs 15+

"But the LORD said to him, "go,for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name befor the gentiles and and kings of the children of Israel. For I will shoe=w him how much he will suffer for my name.""

God himself said Paul was chosen by Him. Bear that in mind when you disreguard what he teaches.

Mark



But you never adressessed the scriptures I quoted where peoiple other than Paul, peopel who were with the Christ, people who had discernment by the Spirit and knew the teachings of Christ, where these people recomended Pauls teachings!!!!!!!!

Do you accept what these people say.....just not when they recomend Paul?


Mark :)