Rapture and the End Times

[AFinChrist]

End Times visions;

I saw our family watching the news on TV. I thought it odd since we have a large home but this picture seemed as if we were living in a small place or an apartment. Whatever they said, caused me great alarm that I got on my knees to pray. My husband was not with us. There was a knock on the door. A man with a military rifle, helmet and uniform herded us out. We were ordered into the back of the truck. As the truck drove away we vanished.
My husband was walking on the street when the same kind of truck pulled over and picked him up.

There will be killing of Christians and nonChristians, martial law to stop all disobedience to the "system".

My children were around the age of late 20's and 30.
That doesn't leave us much time...

After the visions...I couldn't imagine going through such things without knowing the Lord intimately. Life seems so benign here in the country, where I live. Yet, Revelation is unfolding. We are living in the end times.
The Lord is calling His children to have them wake up from their apathy and sleep.

[flyingsum0]

Ugh your dream has been my reality...bout 5:45 in morning, my buddy show up at the door in Army PT sweats trying to kill me by running me around in cirlces on a track and doing sit-ups. I really hate sit ups...

The end is coming Sis, I dunno when, but Im glad I will have you and the rest of the Brothers and Sisters here on the CF forums to share the journey to Heaven with...

God Bless!

[AFinChrist]

oh man Sumo...I usually get woken up at 3am by the Lord with a song in my head. I'd hate to think I'd have to get up to exercise. That really is torture.

Are you sure he's your buddy?

[flyingsum0]

Yup :)

[mont974x4]

Sumo, iron sharpens iron and our friends are here to painfully shave off the rough edges. I do miss my early morning PT runs from my Army days. My favorite was in 1994 in Alabama..late Spring. It was just warm ennough to be comfortable and the morning mist was rising off a pond I ran past as the critters were coming out for their morning drinks.


AF, I do believe we're getting close and far too many beleivers don't take it seriously. I pray we all get grounded firmly in the Word so as not to be decieved and that we all learn to rely on Him for all our needs for His strength. He is our rock and our salvation.

[warrrior4him007]

i hear you my sister is 17 and she is joining the us army reserves i dont no if that is good or bad but im scared for her and im scared for my family mom rasied us cathlic been haveing some weird visions too

[flyingsum0]

Sumo, iron sharpens iron and our friends are here to painfully shave off the rough edges. I do miss my early morning PT runs from my Army days. My favorite was in 1994 in Alabama..late Spring. It was just warm ennough to be comfortable and the morning mist was rising off a pond I ran past as the critters were coming out for their morning drinks.


:)

[serephim02]

Sumo you aint alone...I hate situps and pushups too!:D
I have been ready for the rapture for about 3 months...just waitin for God! I wish it would happen soon because it just seems the world is getting worse and worse with the anti christian agenda and what not. but I love the world anyway:thumbsup: I am glad I will be with my family an all yall....Sumo that story you told made me picture you running around like the benny hill show with the fast music and all that lol

[Artificial Intelligence]

Sounds more interesting than the last dream I had (from a nap today). I was on a forum and we were having a heated argument about gif animations… it was weird, I woke up nearly in terrror lol too much time in forums and working on graphics editors I guess.

Anyway, yeah that stuff happens. Like 15 years ago I had one where the place I lived got nuked. I was driving/walking/moving down the road to my house and it all went to a dark/bright negative as the bombs went off at distance. There was a white fence surrounding my neighbors house that was in my view as it all began. The thing was that they didn’t have such a fence, but I could not shake the dream. A few years later… that fence was built and is still standing at my neighbors house.

[Ben12]

I hate pushups and sit ups too; but I was also an awesome runner; was a paratrooper for three years.

I do not believe in rapture for a couple reasons.

First: God's will be done on this earth as it is in heaven.

Second: The rapture is nothing but an escapism doctrine; God wants overcomers not escapist.

Third: It wasn't until the early or mid 1800's that there was any significant group of believers around the world that looked for a "rapture" of the Church prior to a seven-year tribulation period. The "rapture" teaching was NOT taught by the early Church, it was NOT taught by the Church of the first centuries, it was NOT taught by the Reformers, IT WAS NOT TAUGHT BY ANYONE (except a couple Roman Catholic theologians) UNTIL ABOUT THE YEAR 1830!

Emmanuel Lacunza, also a Jesuit priest, built on Ribera's teachings, and spent much of his life writing a book titled "The Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty." Lacunza, however, wrote under the assumed name of "Rabbi Ben Ezra," supposedly a learned Jew who had accepted Christ as his Saviour. With Jesuit cunning he thus conspired to get his book a hearing in the Protestant world - they would not even permit it in their homes coming from a Jesuit pen - but as the earnest work of a "converted Jew" they would consume it with avid interest! Within the pages of this elaborate forgery Lacunza taught the novel notion that Jesus returns not once, but twice, and at the "first stage" of His return He "raptures" His Church so they can escape the reign of the "future Antichrist." His book was first published in Spanish in the year 1812 and soon found its way onto the shelves of the library of the Archbishop of Canterbury in London, England.

In 1828 his open-air meetings in Scotland drew crowds of 10,000 people. His Church in London seated one thousand people and was packed week after week with a congregation drawn from the most brilliant and influencial circles of society. There were some among them who by prophetic declaration announced that the Lord was coming soon, and this idea became prominent in their prophetic utterances and teachings. Out of those prophetic declarations some began to study the scriptures in the light of a physical, literal coming of the Lord. Up until that time the coming of the Lord was understood as a coming of the Lord TO His people, and IN His saints, and there was no sense of His fleshly coming. Irving discovered Lacunza's book and was deeply shaken by it, in fact, fell in love with it, translated it into English, and it was published in London in 1827. And at this very time Irving heard what he believed to be a Voice from heaven commanding him to preach the Secret Rapture of the Saints. Then Irving began to hold Bible Conferences throughout Scotland, emphasizing the coming of Jesus to rapture His Church.
About this same time there began the emergence of a new movement which came to be known as the "Plymouth Brethren." The Brethren movement had its beginning in Dublin in 1825 when a small group of earnest men, dissatisfied with the spiritually lethargic condition that prevailed in the Protestant Church in Ireland, met for prayer and fellowship. Soon others joined the fellowship and associated groups sprang up in various places. Though the movement had its beginning at Dublin ' , it was Plymouth, England that became the center of their vast literature outreach, thus the name !'Plymouth Brethren" became attached.
The Secret Rapture teaching was introduced into the United States and Canada in the 1860's and 1870's, though there is some indication that it may have been taught as early as the 1840's. Darby himself visited the United States six times. The "new" teaching was spreading. A Congregationalist preacher by the name of C. I. Scofield came under the influence of Darby and the Plymouth Brethren. Scofield became a strong promoter of the teaching that had been promulgated by Darby, whom he considered "the most profound Bible student of modern times." He incorporated this teaching into his SCOFIELD REFERENCE BIBLE. The Scofield Reference Bible was destined to have a tremendous impact upon the beliefs of many, when, three million copies were published in the first 50 years! Through this Bible Scofield shrewdly carried the teaching of the Secret Rapture into the very heart of Evangelicalism.

[mont974x4]

I for one, did not enjoy running at Ft Bragg. Ardennes was just too boring. LOL

[flyingsum0]

PT in Germay was cool...stateside it just seems longer. Runs during deployments are the worst though...nothing to look foward to when you get done with the run.

Rapture is like rap music. Some people listen to it some people dont, but those that speak it are usually very loud and outspoken...

[mont974x4]

Germany was cool...especially running near a bakery. LOL


You're right, PT during deployment was a bit off. LOL But for me it was only because it was hard to find time and I was assigned to the task force staff so I was very busy and left to do it on my own when I could.

[flyingsum0]

OOo well being a Medic for a Cav Regiment means that you never get bored...just really sore and annoyed having to put then back together piece by piece :)

[hannahfievel]

End Times visions;

I saw our family watching the news on TV. I thought it odd since we have a large home but this picture seemed as if we were living in a small place or an apartment. Whatever they said, caused me great alarm that I got on my knees to pray. My husband was not with us. There was a knock on the door. A man with a military rifle, helmet and uniform herded us out. We were ordered into the back of the truck. As the truck drove away we vanished.
My husband was walking on the street when the same kind of truck pulled over and picked him up.

There will be killing of Christians and nonChristians, martial law to stop all disobedience to the "system".

My children were around the age of late 20's and 30.
That doesn't leave us much time...

After the visions...I couldn't imagine going through such things without knowing the Lord intimately. Life seems so benign here in the country, where I live. Yet, Revelation is unfolding. We are living in the end times.
The Lord is calling His children to have them wake up from their apathy and sleep.

Okie Dokie,

I know the Lord must have wanted this subject discussed! I was sitting here playing...when I had one of those light bulb moments. I thought...hmmm, wonder what others "here" think about there being a rapture or not...and this was the very next post I saw! :) Our Lord is good, amen! :prayer:

Okay, I have a long long sermony post about why I do believe in a rapture. But, for the meantime...I have to ask this...HAS ANYONE HERE BROUGHT UP THE SUBJECT OF A JEWISH WEDDING? As the symbolism in the matter of the jewish engagement to "Wedding Feast" of the Bride and Groom, is outstanding! :clap:

I will go and search out the jewish wedding ceremony for those "who may not know"...praying this will not offend anyone. I am just a Completed Jew..and still learning, but I think this may show "why" Jesus compared what will come...with what already was in place. I'll be back with the info! your sis, hannah :wave:

[mont974x4]

I was never bored.

oh-58 helicopter mechanice
aircraft pneudraulics tech
bradley crew
mlrs repair
track/wheeled vehicle repair (helped that section)
chaplain assistant/personal security (volunteer..Kosovo Campaign)
paratrooper

Jay
82nd ABN/1 ID
9 1/2 years until medically retired.

I do miss it but God can use me in or out of the military just the same.

Bless you and all our troops
Jay

[flyingsum0]

I was always intrested in CHaplain's Assistants...but do you need to go to seminary school to beomce one?

[Ben12]

I for one, did not enjoy running at Ft Bragg. Ardennes was just too boring. LOL
I was in 4th PSYOPS (Airborne) Airborne Illustrator (Retired)

[hannahfievel]

Hello,

I searched and searched for what I thought was one of the best descriptions of the jewish engagement and the wedding...Hope this adds to this conversation, amen! :prayer:

BTW, so sorry this is kinda long, but worth the read...Praise the Lord!

Jewish Marriage Customs--The Jewish Bridegroom Seeks His Bride
In Bible days, when a young Jewish man chose his bride-to-be, he traveled from his father's house to her home to discuss betrothal--the first major step in establishing the marriage covenant. There he negotiated with her father the purchase price he would pay (called in the Hebrew tongue the mohar) to make her his own.

Once the bridegroom paid that price, the marriage covenant was established; and the young man and woman were regarded as promised to one another-husband and wife. From that moment the bride was declared "sanctified," or set apart exclusively for her bridegroom. As a symbol of this established covenant relationship, the groom and the bride would drink from a cup of wine over which a betrothal benediction had been prayed.

After establishing the marriage covenant, the bridegroom would leave the bride's home and return to his father's house, where he remained, separated from his bride for a period of days, weeks, and months. Before he left her, however, the bridegroom made his bride this special promise: "Let not your heart be troubled . . . I go to prepare a place for you . . . and . . . I will come again."

During their time apart, the groom built a bridal chamber in his father's house, preparing for their coming marriage day. Also during this time, the bride prepared her wedding dress, gathered her trousseau, and made herself ready to be the wife in married life with her beloved groom when he returned. All through this waiting time, the bride wore a veil as a symbol of her consecration to her groom alone. She would not be seen or known by strangers.

When all was ready, the groom, with his best man and groomsmen, would lead a nighttime torchlight procession to the bride's home, where he would receive his bride and take her to be with him. Though the bride expected her bridegroom to come at any time, she did not know the exact day or hour when he would appear. His only warning of arrival was a shout--alerting the bride that it was time at last to come out to meet and greet her groom.

Then the groom, with his bride and the entire wedding party, returned back to his father's house, where they found that the father had prepared a great marriage feast for all his wedding guests. Soon after arrival, the bridegroom and bride were escorted by wedding party members to the bridal chamber (Hebrew: huppah). The bridegroom and bride went together into the bridal chamber to enter into their first physical union, consummating their covenanted marriage. The best man waited outside the chamber, listening for the groom's prearranged signal.

When the marriage was consummated, the groom signaled the best man (John 3:29), who told the good news to the wedding guests; and all rejoiced and feasted in a seven-day marriage celebration. During that celebration, the bride remained hidden in the bridal chamber. When the seven days were completed, the groom brought his bride out of the bridal chamber (with her veil removed) so that all could see her.


Christ and His Bride: The Heavenly Bridegroom Seeks His Bride

What do these Jewish marriage customs mean to you and me today? Why recall or study them at all? Because they give us an exciting "wedding portrait" of our blessed Saviour and His Bride-the Church! No less than ten major statements in New Testament Scripture refer to Jesus Christ the Son of God as the "Bridegroom," and to the Church as His "Bride." It is the most magnificent and beautiful love story anywhere in the pages of prophecy. And we who belong to the Saviour, who are the "Bride of Christ," eagerly and expectantly await the return of the Bridegroom.

To begin with, let us establish that Jesus Himself is the Bridegroom. In Matthew 9:15 (see also Mark 2:19-20, Luke 5:34-35) our Lord makes it abundantly clear that He is the Bridegroom: "And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast."

Again, in John 3:29, John the Baptist refers to "the bride" and "the bridegroom." Then, just hours before His Cross, in John 14:1-3, Jesus made that great and precious promise of the Heavenly Bridegroom to His Bride. His promise is the "blessed hope" of the Church. The Bible makes it abundantly clear also that the Bride of Christ is the Church. Ephesians 5:23 speaks of the marriage relationship as a picture of Christ and His Church. Notice: ". . . the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body."

The Bride of Christ is that vast body of believers who in these last 2,000 years have received Jesus Christ as their personal Saviour and Lord. Consider another passage from Paul's pen, where he told the Corinthian believers: ". . . I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ" (2 Cor. 11:2).

So, who is the "Bride of Christ"? Obviously, Church-age believers belonging to Christ are His Bride. Now, read John 14:1-3 again, and remember what Jesus said in that powerful promise passage. Jesus chose the Church to be His Bride. Just as the Jewish bridegroom left his father's house to seek his bride, so Jesus left His Father's house in Heaven and came to earth 2,000 years ago to select His Bride.


Other Contrasts

The Jewish groom paid a price to purchase his bride, and Jesus paid a price to purchase His Bride. The price He paid was His own life. He said, ". . . I lay down my life for the sheep" (John 10:15). Also read Matthew 20:28 and 1 Peter 1:18-19. Once the marriage covenant was established, the Jewish bride was set apart exclusively for her groom. Likewise, the Church has been sanctified, or set apart exclusively, for Christ (Eph. 5:25-27; 1 Cor. 1:2, 6:11; Heb. 10:10, 13:12).

Another interesting contrast is this: The cup of wine at the Jewish wedding was symbolic of the marriage covenant by which the Jewish groom obtained his bride. And the cup of communion that we drink is symbolic of the New Covenant through which Christ has obtained the Church (1 Cor. 11:25).

Just as the Jewish groom returned to his father's house after the marriage covenant had been established, so Jesus left the earth and returned to His Father's house in Heaven after He had established the New Covenant and rose from the dead (John 6:62, 20:17).

Just as the Jewish groom and bride were separated for a time, Christ has been separated from the Church for over 1,900 years. The Church is now living in that period of separation.

Just as the Jewish groom spent time preparing living accommodations for his bride in his father's house, Jesus has been preparing living accommodations for us in His Father's house in Heaven (John 14:2). As the Jewish groom came to take his bride to live with him at the end of the period of separation, so Christ will come to take the Church to live with Him at the end of this Church Age (John 14:3).

Just as the coming for the Jewish bride began by a torchlight procession of the groom and groomsmen from the groom's father's house to the home of the bride, so the taking of the Church will be accomplished by a procession of Christ and an angelic host from the Father's house in Heaven to the earth (1 Thess. 4:16).

Just as the Jewish bride did not know the exact time of the groom's coming, the Church does not know the exact time of Christ's coming. In the same way that the Jewish groom's arrival was preceded by a shout, so Christ's arrival to take the Church will be preceded by a shout (1 Thess. 4:16).

Just as the Jewish wedding party found wedding guests assembled in the groom's father's house when they arrived, so Messiah and the Church will find the souls of Old Testament saints assembled in Heaven when they arrive. These friends of the bridegroom will serve as the wedding guests. Just as the Jewish groom and bride entered into physical union after they arrived at the groom's father's house (thereby consummating the marriage that had been covenanted earlier), Jesus and the Church will experience a great spiritual union after their arrival at the Father's house in Heaven.

Just as the Jewish bride remained hidden in the bridal chamber for a period of seven days after arrival at the groom's father's house, the Church will remain hidden for a period of seven years (the Tribulation) after arrival at the Father's house in Heaven. While the seven-year Tribulation Period is taking place on earth, the Church will be in Heaven--totally hidden from the sight of those on the earth.

Just as the Jewish groom brought his bride out of the bridal chamber at the conclusion of the seven days so that all could see who the bride was, so Christ will bring the Church out of Heaven at the end of the seven-year Tribulation Period, so that all can see the identity of the true Church (Col. 3:4).

Praying this reveals HIS truth, amen! :prayer: Love to all, hannah :wave:

[mont974x4]

I was always intrested in CHaplain's Assistants...but do you need to go to seminary school to beomce one?


Nope, no seminary required for the assistant position. Their school is at Jackson. However, they needed a volunteer for the Kosovo Campaign and that's how I got to go and serve in that capacity.

Jay

[mont974x4]

I was in 4th PSYOPS (Airborne) Airborne Illustrator (Retired)

I was with D AMC 82nd Aviation Brigade working at Simmons when stationed at Bragg...94-95. I was on orders to go back in 01 but was medically barred from re-enlistment due to back issues (my si joints and spine are fusing from a form of arthritis).

[flyingsum0]

My favorite station was Frt Iriwn Ca. 1/11 Cav as Op4 for NTC

[mont974x4]

Germany and all that beer.....back in the day. LOL

[Ben12]

I was with D AMC 82nd Aviation Brigade working at Simmons when stationed at Bragg...94-95. I was on orders to go back in 01 but was medically barred from re-enlistment due to back issues (my si joints and spine are fusing from a form of arthritis).
I was 36 years old when I went to jump school; oldest person in that class. I was at Bragg from late 1986-89 time frame. I did 29 jumps to include 5 jumps for my German Jump wings; great years. We use to run six miles a day at least three times a week and I usually ran it five or six times a week. We did not run Ardennes; instead an area near Yadkin road known as sand hill, (It was all trails and pine trees)

My last assignment was Hohenfels Germany where I was a platoon sergeant for Combat Documentation (The VIPERS? Visual information Personnel)

I also was assigned at:

194th Armored Brigade Ft Knox KY
227th Maintenance, Yongsan Korea
HQ Ft Sill Ok, TASC
TAPC, (Hoffman Building) Alexandria VA
Hohenfels Germany


Did four years Navy which I try to forget.

[Ben12]

My favorite station was Frt Iriwn Ca. 1/11 Cav as Op4 for NTC
I was at Hohenfels Germany (Ft Irwin of Germany) from 1992-95. Did three rotations at Irwin.

[mont974x4]

:groupray: ahh the fellowship of comrades in arms both in the physical and spiritual services. :wave:


I went to vilesk for my train up for kosovo but my usual training area was Graf. I suported a field artillery battalian and 2 engineer bats in Bamberg. I was 20 for jumpschool in 94 (airline lost my luggage and I did the first 3 days in boots and wranglers :D ) and straight to Bragg. My first jump with division was supposed to be into Haiti...we refer to that as Operation Just Kidding. lol

I did train with the German army one weekend but that was as a groundpounder.

Dad's a Marine. I pretty well covered the states and a good chunk of the world in our travels.

[walshclan]

Hello,

I searched and searched for what I thought was one of the best descriptions of the jewish engagement and the wedding...Hope this adds to this conversation, amen! :prayer:

BTW, so sorry this is kinda long, but worth the read...Praise the Lord!

Jewish Marriage Customs--The Jewish Bridegroom Seeks His Bride
In Bible days, ...


This is so cool...I am going to use it at my next bible study. I think everyone will find it very interesting.

Thank you so much Hannah

In Him,

Connie

[JeffTheLearner]

I went to MEPS!

Then the army recruiter was weirded out as to why I changed my mind, so he called me to see if we could go somewhere and talk about it.

Then I went to Benigians!:thumbsup:

...I never joined ...man I'm cool!:cool:

[aspirine]

End Times visions;

I saw our family watching the news on TV. I thought it odd since we have a large home but this picture seemed as if we were living in a small place or an apartment. Whatever they said, caused me great alarm that I got on my knees to pray. My husband was not with us. There was a knock on the door. A man with a military rifle, helmet and uniform herded us out. We were ordered into the back of the truck. As the truck drove away we vanished.
My husband was walking on the street when the same kind of truck pulled over and picked him up.

There will be killing of Christians and nonChristians, martial law to stop all disobedience to the "system".

My children were around the age of late 20's and 30.
That doesn't leave us much time...

After the visions...I couldn't imagine going through such things without knowing the Lord intimately. Life seems so benign here in the country, where I live. Yet, Revelation is unfolding. We are living in the end times.
The Lord is calling His children to have them wake up from their apathy and sleep.
In my last prophetic like dream I was saving a baby. In todays paper
a baby was saved from death by strange means at that time.

Anyway, Will it make any difference to you if the Rapture does not occure.

[TransformedByGrace]

I went to MEPS!

Then the army recruiter was weirded out as to why I changed my mind, so he called me to see if we could go somewhere and talk about it.

Then I went to Benigians!:thumbsup:

...I never joined ...man I'm cool!:cool:
I did the same thing. Except my recruiter pressured me to join against my better judgement, so I signed and then applied for seperation when I got home. It was approved and now I'm joining the Coast Guard instead.

[Tkjjc89]

Hmm, military or rapture? What is the discussion?

[mont974x4]

:D Sorry about the thread hijacking. Apparently we decided for fun fellowship as opposed to getting into another heated discussion on (what many would consider) as controversial topic that is discussed rather frequently.

[AFinChrist]

Visions are typically given by the Lord. Just as you wouldn't have any control over your dream...you get what you get. I brought it here to share.

This answers the question of whether the rapture is important or not. If God felt it was important to give me this vision, then yes. If its important to Him, then its important to me.

[opljar]

hannahfievel
Hello,

I searched and searched for what I thought was one of the best descriptions of the jewish engagement and the wedding...Hope this adds to this conversation, amen! :prayer:

Jewish Marriage Customs--The Jewish Bridegroom Seeks His Bride

------

walshclan
This is so cool...I am going to use it at my next bible study. I think everyone will find it very interesting.

Thank you so much Hannah

In Him,
Connie

----------

i agree... thanks Hannah for finding this and taking the time to post it.
great information!

†

[prophecystudent]

[quote=Ben12;34562466]
I do not believe in rapture for a couple reasons.

First: God's will be done on this earth as it is in heaven.

God's will will be done on earth, and this has nothing to do with the Rapture.

Second: The rapture is nothing but an escapism doctrine; God wants overcomers not escapist.

I suggest you get into a deeper study of the scriptures. There are dozens of passages that refer to the Rapture.

Third: It wasn't until the early or mid 1800's that there was any significant group of believers around the world that looked for a "rapture" of the Church prior to a seven-year tribulation period. The "rapture" teaching was NOT taught by the early Church, it was NOT taught by the Church of the first centuries, it was NOT taught by the Reformers, IT WAS NOT TAUGHT BY ANYONE (except a couple Roman Catholic theologians) UNTIL ABOUT THE YEAR 1830!

I am sorry to have to tell you this, but you are quite wrong on this.



Rev 4:1-2 (New International Version)
1. After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this."
2. 2At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it.

It is widely believed that John, the remaining apostle, and a member of the universal Church, that his elevation to heaven (in the scripture above) is a picture of the Rapture of the Church. This “invitation” came from Christ Himself as He is the One who “first spoke” to John “like a trumpet”. (1:10)

John 14:2-3 (New International Version)
2. In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you.
3. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
This scripture is Christ’s promise to the disciples that He would return to take believers to be with Him in His Father’s mansion of many rooms.
The logical sequence of events in these passages of revelation (Chap 4) shows that the “church” will not be present for the tribulation period. Note that chapters 4 and 5 present a picture of heaven while chapters 6 through 18 present a picture of the tribulation itself.
The church is not mentioned at all in the rest of Revelation indicates that it (the church) is not present on earth during that period.
Rev 3:10
Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth.
Christ also promises in Rev 3:10 (above) that believers would not experience the “hour of trial” or the tribulation. There are 16 references to the church in the first three chapters of Revelation, and not one after chapter 3.
The extensive use of Old Testament language and symbols in chapters 4-18 of Revelation indicates Israel, not the Church, This is understandable since the Church Age is the time of the Gentiles, whereas the Tribulation is the time of Jacob’s trouble or the 70th week of Daniel, determined by God for His dealings with Israel.
1 Thes. 4:13-18
13. Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope.
14. We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.
15. According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
16. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
18. Therefore encourage each other with these words.
For years the argument has continued as to the origin of “the Rapture”. The argument against the Pre-Tribulation belief is that it was invented by John Darby in the last century (1828). Not true!
Reverend Morgan Edwards saw the “Rapture” back in 1742.
Grant Jeffery, a current prophecy scholar, He discovered a statement in an apocalyptic sermon from the fourth century. The document was written by Ephrem (or Pseudo Ephrem) who was a Syrian of the fourth century. Admittedly, there is some disagreement as to the actual date of the document with the two dates in question being 306-373, or 565-627. In either case, the writing clearly expresses the belief in a pre-tribulation Rapture of the Church.
It is important to note, however, that Ephrem was not the originator of this view. It was seen by Victorinus , Bishop of Petau, as early as AD 270.
Many other writers have also expressed this same belief, many of them prior to Darby.
This is not meant to be a exhaustive study of the concept of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture. Rather, a very short summary of information for the benefit of those who may be confused or interested in the subject.
Most of the information herein was gleaned from Tim LaHaye’s book, Revelation Unveiled.
There is one other argument against the “rapture” occurring at all. That being the position that since “rapture” does not appear in the Bible, it cannot be real. As one writer put it, “Well, the word Bible does not appear, either, but I am holding one!”

I reiterate, please do some deeper study of the bible itself. And, unless you are very proficient in the original Greek I suggest you use supporting documentation from accredited scholars.

Fred

[FreeinChrist]

I hate pushups and sit ups too; but I was also an awesome runner; was a paratrooper for three years.

I do not believe in rapture for a couple reasons.

First: God's will be done on this earth as it is in heaven.

Second: The rapture is nothing but an escapism doctrine; God wants overcomers not escapist.


You failed to support your first point. As to your second - soory, but it is not escapist theology. I know many who are suffering for their Lord in foreing countries today who are pretrib. We don't beleive that we will be free of tribulation and persecution in this life...but we do expect to be spared the wrath of God.

Third: It wasn't until the early or mid 1800's that there was any significant group of believers around the world that looked for a "rapture" of the Church prior to a seven-year tribulation period. The "rapture" teaching was NOT taught by the early Church, it was NOT taught by the Church of the first centuries, it was NOT taught by the Reformers, IT WAS NOT TAUGHT BY ANYONE (except a couple Roman Catholic theologians) UNTIL ABOUT THE YEAR 1830!

Not exactly true. Victorinus wrote the first commentary about Revelation and saw the church removed before the trumpet and vial judgments. Unforutunately, his work was later altered by a follower of Augustine, and now reflects mostly amil. However, they forgot to alter some key things.


Emmanuel Lacunza, also a Jesuit priest, built on Ribera's teachings, and spent much of his life writing a book titled "The Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty." Lacunza, however, wrote under the assumed name of "Rabbi Ben Ezra," supposedly a learned Jew who had accepted Christ as his Saviour. With Jesuit cunning he thus conspired to get his book a hearing in the Protestant world - they would not even permit it in their homes coming from a Jesuit pen - but as the earnest work of a "converted Jew" they would consume it with avid interest! Within the pages of this elaborate forgery Lacunza taught the novel notion that Jesus returns not once, but twice, and at the "first stage" of His return He "raptures" His Church so they can escape the reign of the "future Antichrist." His book was first published in Spanish in the year 1812 and soon found its way onto the shelves of the library of the Archbishop of Canterbury in London, England.

In 1828 his open-air meetings in Scotland drew crowds of 10,000 people. His Church in London seated one thousand people and was packed week after week with a congregation drawn from the most brilliant and influencial circles of society. There were some among them who by prophetic declaration announced that the Lord was coming soon, and this idea became prominent in their prophetic utterances and teachings. Out of those prophetic declarations some began to study the scriptures in the light of a physical, literal coming of the Lord. Up until that time the coming of the Lord was understood as a coming of the Lord TO His people, and IN His saints, and there was no sense of His fleshly coming. Irving discovered Lacunza's book and was deeply shaken by it, in fact, fell in love with it, translated it into English, and it was published in London in 1827. And at this very time Irving heard what he believed to be a Voice from heaven commanding him to preach the Secret Rapture of the Saints. Then Irving began to hold Bible Conferences throughout Scotland, emphasizing the coming of Jesus to rapture His Church.
About this same time there began the emergence of a new movement which came to be known as the "Plymouth Brethren." The Brethren movement had its beginning in Dublin in 1825 when a small group of earnest men, dissatisfied with the spiritually lethargic condition that prevailed in the ProtestantChurch in Ireland, met for prayer and fellowship. Soon others joined the fellowship and associated groups sprang up in various places. Though the movement had its beginning at Dublin ' , it was Plymouth, England that became the center of their vast literature outreach, thus the name !'Plymouth Brethren" became attached.
The Secret Rapture teaching was introduced into the United States and Canada in the 1860's and 1870's, though there is some indication that it may have been taught as early as the 1840's. Darby himself visited the United States six times. The "new" teaching was spreading. A Congregationalist preacher by the name of C. I. Scofield came under the influence of Darby and the Plymouth Brethren. Scofield became a strong promoter of the teaching that had been promulgated by Darby, whom he considered "the most profound Bible student of modern times." He incorporated this teaching into his SCOFIELD REFERENCE BIBLE. The Scofield Reference Bible was destined to have a tremendous impact upon the beliefs of many, when, three million copies were published in the first 50 years! Through this Bible Scofield shrewdly carried the teaching of the Secret Rapture into the very heart of Evangelicalism.


You should include source of your copy and paste information (or misinformatin in this case).

[AFinChrist]

I can only say, I followed a denomination that believed in the post trib., then I went to a denomination that followed pretrib. Each had their own list of scriptures they believed in.
I decided to allow the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to me. Following man got too confusing.

Sad to say, some will go through the tribulation til the end. I believe, that there will be a point (most likely not where most pretriber's like to have it) where (as the previous poster stated) that saves us from the wrath of God.

Until then...I plan to live with bringing Heaven on Earth and doing the commission. If you see the vision; we were working in the mission field til the very end.

[aspirine]

I can only say, I followed a denomination that believed in the post trib., then I went to a denomination that followed pretrib. Each had their own list of scriptures they believed in.
I decided to allow the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to me. Following man got too confusing.

Sad to say, some will go through the tribulation til the end. I believe, that there will be a point (most likely not where most pretriber's like to have it) where (as the previous poster stated) that saves us from the wrath of God.

Until then...I plan to live with bringing Heaven on Earth and doing the commission. If you see the vision; we were working in the mission field til the very end.
What if it already happened during the time of the destruction of the second temple? What is the Jewish prophet was addressing things that would happen to Jews? Certainly the events around Megiddo could be constructed to fit a tribulation scenario. It was trouble like they had never seen before or have seen again. The 1930s and 40s are considered another example by some.

[hannahfievel]

This is so cool...I am going to use it at my next bible study. I think everyone will find it very interesting.

Thank you so much Hannah

In Him,

Connie

Hello Connie,

I'm sooo glad this whole ceremony interested anyone! I did think this was discussion about the "rapture", so I am just happy someone saw the marriage ceremony and saw how a "rapture" may occur. Hope this helped you out in your bible study. Sincerely, hannah :wave: