Should Gay Marriage be legalized? (2)

[thenewageriseth]

This thread was split automatically after 1000 replies and this thread has been automatically created.
The old thread automatically closed is here: "Should Gay Marriage be legalized?" (http://www.christianforums.com/t4850301)

[flyingsum0]

THATS RIGHT!!!

First poster gets to bust a move!!!

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e231/flyingsumo/dance.gif

[MaidforHim]

THATS RIGHT!!!

First poster gets to bust a move!!!

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e231/flyingsumo/dance.gif

Wish I could move like that. I got rythm, but two left feet! What's up with that? :scratch:

^_^

[MarkEvan]

But anyway, Pauls rightness or otherwise aside... I'd still like to see someone come up with an explanation for why God should have a problem with homosexuality in the first place. He made us this way, after all.

May I ask a question?

You are saying that God does not have a problem with homosexuality....if that is the case why did he change His mind, He is the same yesterday today and forever, and in the OT He clearly said that it was an abomination?

Mark :)

[MarkEvan]

THATS RIGHT!!!

First poster gets to bust a move!!!

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e231/flyingsumo/dance.gif



Aaaahhhh.......dancing spiderman....get it away from me.......help.......:sorry: :sigh: .

[JesusFreak78]

.

[EnemyPartyII]

May I ask a question?

You are saying that God does not have a problem with homosexuality....if that is the case why did he change His mind, He is the same yesterday today and forever, and in the OT He clearly said that it was an abomination?

Mark :)
If God doesn't "change his mind"... explain the differences between the Old and New covenant, the destruction of Nineveh, and the sacrifice of Isaac

[Nurbz]

Something I'd like to point out:

in another thread, the notion of women being submissive and not being placed in positions of authority has been shouted down as antiquated because times have changed

1 Timothy 2:11-12: "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.".

So christians seem to be picking and choosing which things they get all huffy about. I'm positive you won't find many women who won't try to rationalize a passage like that, because the majority disagree with it.

in the end, if we're going to pay more attention to every law more than people, we're no better than the pharicies

[flyingsum0]

Something I'd like to point out:

in another thread, the notion of women being submissive and not being placed in positions of authority has been shouted down as antiquated because times have changed



So christians seem to be picking and choosing which things they get all huffy about. I'm positive you won't find many women who won't try to rationalize a passage like that, because the majority disagree with it.

in the end, if we're going to pay more attention to every law more than people, we're no better than the pharicies

Great point Bro

[MarkEvan]

If God doesn't "change his mind"... explain the differences between the Old and New covenant, the destruction of Nineveh, and the sacrifice of Isaac

Hi EnemypartyII,
First we both know that allthough God asked for the sacrifice of Isaac from Abraham He did not allow him to go through with it but rather provided the sacrifice Himself, Abraham was being tested by God, that God may see how obediant he was, God still tests us today, the means of the test in some cases have not changed either, God can require you or I to give up somone we love.
As to the destruction of Nineveh, I believe that God still judges people in this way, nations even, this IMO is what has been happening to Israel they are disobediant to God, they did not recognise the time of their visitation from God and so are under judgement untill they repent and say "blessed is he who comes in the name of the LORD." It was Gods judgement that caused Jerusalem to be completely destroyed by the Romans. It is not hard to believe that natural diasters are the judgement of God.

But God does not change, He is the same "yesterday today and forever," therefore why did He view homosexuality as an abomination before Him in the OT, and not in the new?

Mark :)

[MarkEvan]

in the end, if we're going to pay more attention to every law more than people, we're no better than the pharicies


True, but you misunderstand, the obediance of these laws (the ones that are laid out for us to folow in the NT and those that are carried over from the OT, enable us to truely love people. God said in Leviticus 19 vs 16-18 that we are not to hate our brother in our heart, how.......by telling them that their sin is wrong before God, by reproving them. Now if we were to listen to the majority they would have us not talk of the sin in their lives, yet to do this God calls it hate. Now you choose is it better to obey man....or God? But this obviously goes two ways you and I have to be open to the rebuke and reprove of others.

Mark :)

[Nurbz]

God said in Leviticus 19 vs 16-18 that we are not to hate our brother in our heart, how.......by telling them that their sin is wrong before God, by reproving them.
But using the government to do it wasn't in the bible. Its not Government's role to enforce theocratic law.

Folks keep forgeting that gays are already having sex, refusing equal tax breaks for monogamous couples doesn't change anything, what people are wanting to do is make homosexuality illegal.

[lily101]

May I ask a question?

You are saying that God does not have a problem with homosexuality....if that is the case why did he change His mind, He is the same yesterday today and forever, and in the OT He clearly said that it was an abomination?

Mark :)
Thank you!

God stays the same! The sins from the time of Adam, Abraham, David and the Apostiles is still sin in Gods eyes today.

This doesn't mean God doesn't show mercy or that he loves his children less.

But if he shows you in His word that homosexuality is a sin (what He does) and you still choose to ractice it, how much mercy do you expect God to show you? Or are you going to test God's patience towards an disobiedient child in sin?

Being in sin if it's telling a lie or homosexuality or murder, builds a wall between you and God. You build it because you choose sin above God. Once the wall is too big between you and God....you wont have any relationship with God. Sin seperates you from God.

It is our choice to sin or not to sin.
It is our choice to tell a lie.
It is our choice to steal.
It is our choice to be homosexual.
BECAUSE IT's OUR CHOICE IT DOESn't MEAN IT's THE RIGTH CHOICE!!!!

We need to be righteous in Gods eyes and not the eyes of the world.

[MarkEvan]

But using the government to do it wasn't in the bible. Its not Government's role to enforce theocratic law.

Folks keep forgeting that gays are already having sex, refusing equal tax breaks for monogamous couples doesn't change anything, what people are wanting to do is make homosexuality illegal.


Ahh.....my appologies, I thought you were saying that we as christians shouldn`t do this.
But I agree with what you say, what the government does is up to them, yes I will pray that they will make the right choices, but I believe it a waste of time to make them enforce christian views. I will stick to doing my part where I can, telling people of the sin they are in and that they must repent. It`s like the situation with Paul and slavery, he doesn`t say that people should set up rallys trying to abolish it, but rather that they should get on with their lives.

Mark :)

[EnemyPartyII]

Thank you!

God stays the same! The sins from the time of Adam, Abraham, David and the Apostiles is still sin in Gods eyes today.

This doesn't mean God doesn't show mercy or that he loves his children less.

But if he shows you in His word that homosexuality is a sin (what He does) and you still choose to ractice it, how much mercy do you expect God to show you? Or are you going to test God's patience towards an disobiedient child in sin?

Being in sin if it's telling a lie or homosexuality or murder, builds a wall between you and God. You build it because you choose sin above God. Once the wall is too big between you and God....you wont have any relationship with God. Sin seperates you from God.

It is our choice to sin or not to sin.
It is our choice to tell a lie.
It is our choice to steal.
It is our choice to be homosexual.
BECAUSE IT's OUR CHOICE IT DOESn't MEAN IT's THE RIGTH CHOICE!!!!

We need to be righteous in Gods eyes and not the eyes of the world.
Again... if God doesn't change his mind, explain the difference between the New and Old covenant, explain the destruction of Nineveh, and the killing of Isaac by Abraham

[MelissaShae]

Thank you!

God stays the same! The sins from the time of Adam, Abraham, David and the Apostiles is still sin in Gods eyes today.

This doesn't mean God doesn't show mercy or that he loves his children less.

But if he shows you in His word that homosexuality is a sin (what He does) and you still choose to ractice it, how much mercy do you expect God to show you? Or are you going to test God's patience towards an disobiedient child in sin?

Being in sin if it's telling a lie or homosexuality or murder, builds a wall between you and God. You build it because you choose sin above God. Once the wall is too big between you and God....you wont have any relationship with God. Sin seperates you from God.

It is our choice to sin or not to sin.
It is our choice to tell a lie.
It is our choice to steal.
It is our choice to be homosexual.
BECAUSE IT's OUR CHOICE IT DOESn't MEAN IT's THE RIGTH CHOICE!!!!

We need to be righteous in Gods eyes and not the eyes of the world.


:amen: :thumbsup:

[MarkEvan]

Again... if God doesn't change his mind, explain the difference between the New and Old covenant, explain the destruction of Nineveh, and the killing of Isaac by Abraham

I answered this question, if you do not accept it may I ask why?

Hi EnemypartyII,
First we both know that allthough God asked for the sacrifice of Isaac from Abraham He did not allow him to go through with it but rather provided the sacrifice Himself, Abraham was being tested by God, that God may see how obediant he was, God still tests us today, the means of the test in some cases have not changed either, God can require you or I to give up somone we love.
As to the destruction of Nineveh, I believe that God still judges people in this way, nations even, this IMO is what has been happening to Israel they are disobediant to God, they did not recognise the time of their visitation from God and so are under judgement untill they repent and say "blessed is he who comes in the name of the LORD." It was Gods judgement that caused Jerusalem to be completely destroyed by the Romans. It is not hard to believe that natural diasters are the judgement of God.

But God does not change, He is the same "yesterday today and forever," therefore why did He view homosexuality as an abomination before Him in the OT, and not in the new?

Mark :)

[JeffTheLearner]

You either, despise Gods Word and disobey it, and try to bring in every worldly philosophy you can, and try to mingle it with sound doctrine. Which brings condemnation upon you more swiftly then your sexual problems.
Or you become born of God by The Word and live by it.

If your gay, so what! I’m a liar, adulterer at heart, a coveter, and a hypocrite. But why change the WORD to fit your own way of living and instead being RENEWED IN TRUTH, which able to SAVE your soul?
Your desire to alter scripture to fit your lifestyle helps you in no way, except for people who would agree with you because they too despise Gods Word.

The agreement of the despisers of the Word,
-verses-
True salvation.
....your choice should be clear.:thumbsup:

[MelissaShae]

You either, despise Gods Word and disobey it, and try to bring in every worldly philosophy you can, and try to mingle it with sound doctrine. Which brings condemnation upon you more swiftly then your sexual problems.
Or you become born of God by The Word and live by it.

If your gay, so what! I’m a liar, adulterer at heart, a coveter, and a hypocrite. But why change the WORD to fit your own way of living and instead being RENEWED IN TRUTH, which able to SAVE your soul?
Your desire to alter scripture to fit your lifestyle helps you in no way, except for people who would agree with you because they too despise Gods Word.

The agreement of the despisers of the Word,
-verses-
True salvation.
....your choice should be clear.:thumbsup:


:amen:

Because it is easier for some to just dismiss God's word than admit and face their mistakes.

[EnemyPartyII]

:amen:

Because it is easier for some to just dismiss God's word than admit and face their mistakes.
What is such a mistake about being a homosexual? PARTICULARLY a homosexual who wants to get married?

[carlos123]

So christians seem to be picking and choosing which things they get all huffy about.


Yes, many Christians do. Pick and choose I mean.

There are also many who don't.

In the end, each of us will have to give an account to God for our own conduct.

Carlos

[MelissaShae]

What is such a mistake about being a homosexual? PARTICULARLY a homosexual who wants to get married?

I personally and faithfully think that being a homosexual is a sin.

I do not hate homosexuals because they are still my brothers and sisters but I don't like their sin. I think that they do deserve to have tax breaks as married people and should be able to be added to their partners insurance benefits, I just think marriage is a holy union that is between a man and woman.

[*Starlight*]

Wow, new thread... well, I still think that homosexual marriage should be legalized, because it's something good, just like heterosexual marriage. :)

[JesusFreak78]

Wow, new thread... well, I still think that homosexual marriage should be legalized, because it's something good, just like heterosexual marriage. :)

How can homosexual marriage be good when God says it's an abomination?

[*Starlight*]

How can homosexual marriage be good when God says it's an abomination?
How can you be sure that God says it's an abomination?

[JesusFreak78]

Because it's written in the bible and the bible is God's word.

[*Starlight*]

the bible is God's word.

This isn't a fact, just a belief.

Do you know any reasons why homosexuality wouldn't be good?

[holo]

It should be legal for the same reasons that wiccanism is legal.

[joffausy]

Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

ROMANS 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.

The Lord has stated need anyone say anymore!!:bow:

[JeffTheLearner]

Yea, I have a friend. I believe in him, but I never listen to him.
Nor do I do him any favors.
Nope, instead... I do everything he hates.
Then to top off all that...
I find some of his best buddys, and then I convince them that my friend is an idot, and wrong. Then they become my friends, some of them end up hating my friend, some of them just do what I do. Ingnore him, and tell everyone that hes wrong.
But if anyone ever questions us, we say that we are his friend, and we believe in him.

[JesusFreak78]

This isn't a fact, just a belief.

Do you know any reasons why homosexuality wouldn't be good?

For me God's word is more fact than anything else in this world. God's word is the truth, life and the way. Everything that goes against the word of God is evil.

[holo]

For me God's word is more fact than anything else in this world. God's word is the truth, life and the way. Everything that goes against the word of God is evil.Sure, but church and state should be as separate as possible. For example, being a muslim, a wiccan or a jew is perfectly legal, though it is serious sin in God's eyes. But that doesn't mean we think it should be illegal.

Let people marry who they want. The church doesn't have to approve of it.

[njcl]

homosexuality,unnatural and abhorant to both GOD'S son and most human beings,not homophobic,love the person hate the sin

[JeffTheLearner]

(Forgive the parables, but some here think that “advocating” free speech, means “restricting” the free speech of others.):P

Anyways, I don’t even know why I’m bothering with this… but I guess I care.
But common sense tells me, even from a (non-biblical) standpoint.
That if a bunch of people came into my country, and they saying that they are allies, but they do not fear our leader, they don’t listen to him. He tells them not to break his laws and not only do they break them, but they encourage others to break the laws. They say they are friends, yet when any citizen of the land tries to tell them to obey the laws of the land. They tell them,
“Oh, that law was made 20 years ago, that’s old. Things have changed. This is how things are now. But even if we are wrong. We are going to do what we want anyway, and show complete disregard for your laws, and leader.”

I don’t know why anyone would consider them allies. It would be obvious that they are in complete opposition, and despise our leader, and laws.

But setting aside things about who we should care to listen to, and focusing on the main question of this post:

Should homosexuality be legalized?

No it should not, and I’ll tell you why. Even from a (non biblical) standpoint, once again.
First of all stealing is illegal, yet I hear silly philosophies such as, “people have free will, blogh… blogh… blogh… and people steal” …saying this in a sense to justify the LEAGLIZATION of homosexuality, which is a dumb point I might add.
So by this I should come to the conclusion that because people steal, we should LEGALIZE it? And because people murder, do drugs, and drive around drunk we should LEGALIZE those too?
So, need I add more?
Ok, so we have established that this is a not a well thought out point. Which tells you much about the deprived mind.
But lets ask are self...
why is robbery illegal?

Well first of all its bad for the economy, for businesses, cities, towns, and citizens of the whole country, no one could make an honest dollar without being robbed. Also no one would want to do any business with that country, and the citizens within it. That would knock out all imports and exports. Imports for cheaper goods which make things even harder on those left out there, trying to make an honest buck. Also the elimination of exports would confine business within that country, which would limit jobs and business opportunities, knocking out the whole shipping, and trucking industry. This making things even more harder on those looking for work. Also those who have jobs, which are in high demand, would be treated like crud by their employer because they can.

So from all this we could come to the conclusion, that robbery is illegal because its bad for the economy, business, and workers. So this law was made to PRESERVE THE ECONOMY, and ENCOURAGE ECONIMIC GROWTH!

So what laws would be appropriate to PRESERVE AND ENCOURAGE population growth?

Well first off it would be appropriate to "encourage" marriage between a male and female. Also it would prophet the country to "discourage" divorce, and sexual deviance.
With exception to the latter thing (in some cases), these are in place now! You want a divorce? …it will cost you. You want to marry, …you can on every corner, also in most states you don’t even have to. If you just live with someone for longer than a year they count you as married. This is not done by accident.

So why would a country want to encourage marriage between a man and woman only?
First of all it is the most timeless and oldest way to increase a nations population.
Second of all, it is a union most likely to raise up healthy, hard working, responsible, moral, and better educated future population to REPLACE, and INCREASE workers, defending armies, and territories, causing economic growth and a more hopeful future.

Why would a nation need population growth?
Well I kind of answered that just above this, but ignorance is such a contagious dieses further explanation cant ever hurt.

1) Armies protect and defend the nation.
2) Workers sustain the armies, build up the economy, and develop territories.
3) Workers increase luxuries, art, media, and education.
4) Army growth is a great deterrent to any nation of invading hopefuls.

As for marriage being the most likely institution to raise up more healthy, hard working, responsible, moral, and a better educated population.

I would ask. Would you rather entrust the future of the nation to anything less?

I would enthusiastically say with great zeal, NO!
(Also influencing the next generation after them, to produce with thier proper mate. That helps too!)

So what is the argument for the other side?
“We want to do it, so it should be legal!” or
“People do it, so we should allow it!”

Their whole argument is nothing more then that, they blabber and blabber, and continue to blabber, yet their argument in all translations is just saying the same thing over, and over again,
“we want to do it, so it should be legal”,
...which is a dumb reason to legalize anything this important, for both the Nation, and society!

~FIN

Your friendly fellow Nation dweller;
-JeffTheLearner




P.S. I want to thank God for giving me the "ability" to explain how people richly flourish when they follow His truth, and ways, without referencing to His Word. The thing I would rather do, but people who say they follow him, yet despise His Word, and wont listen to it. So I have to resort to other ways.:cry: :sigh: :help:

[JesusFreak78]

Sure, but church and state should be as separate as possible. For example, being a muslim, a wiccan or a jew is perfectly legal, though it is serious sin in God's eyes. But that doesn't mean we think it should be illegal.

Let people marry who they want. The church doesn't have to approve of it.

We are discussing homosexuality and not everything else. And just in case you want to know I'm a big no to Islam and wiccan too. I'm for Jews since they are God's choicen people. God tells us to bless Israel (Jews), not to go against them.

I'm a big no to everything that's not from God.

[holo]

We are discussing homosexuality and not everything else. And just in case you want to know I'm a big no to Islam and wiccan too. I'm for Jews since they are God's choicen people. God tells us to bless Israel (Jews), not to go against them.

I'm a big no to everything that's not from God.
Sure, but do you think it should be illegal to be wiccan, for example? Or to get divorced?

The point is, if same-sex marriage should be illegal because it's a sin, then every other sin should be illegal too. We can't just pick and choose. Or can we?

[JesusFreak78]

Sure, but do you think it should be illegal to be wiccan, for example? Or to get divorced?

The point is, if same-sex marriage should be illegal because it's a sin, then every other sin should be illegal too. We can't just pick and choose. Or can we?

Yes, I think wiccan should be illegal.

[holo]

Yes, I think wiccan should be illegal.OK, at least you're consistent :)

Do you think everything the bible mentions as sin should be illegal?

[JesusFreak78]

OK, at least you're consistent :)

Do you think everything the bible mentions as sin should be illegal?

Well, some of the sins are related to lust and you can't make that illegal since it would be impossible to control and know for sure what other people's thoughts and lust are, but what you can control by a law I think it should be illegal.

A law is to protect people and to make sure people have the rights they are entitled to get. (well, that's at least the point with it) The bible is written for people's to live a rightful life and the bible have been used to form many laws so I don't see a problem continue doing it.

[holo]

The problem is that not everybody even believes in the bible, much less acknowledges it as an authority on secular law-making. You can't have democracy AND base all the laws on the bible. And you certainly can't have freedom of speech or faith.

A law should NEVER be based on the bible or the koran or any other religious book. Europe used to mix up church and state pretty badly, and the results were horrible. And the same thing is happening in a lot of muslim countries. It has never worked, as far as I can see.

[pdfiddler]

"Europe used to mix up church and state pretty badly,and the results were horrible"

Oh yes,The democracy of the US and others has worked so much better!:yum:

Or country is a work of art.

[holo]

Yes, it has worked better, as far as I can see. With a secular state, it's not so easy to hide behind the bible or the koran etc. to justify segregation and oppression.

In fact, if I'm not mistaken, the U.S. was to a large degree created by men and women who had to flee from the unhealthy mixup of church and state in Europe.

[JesusFreak78]

The problem is that not everybody even believes in the bible, much less acknowledges it as an authority on secular law-making. You can't have democracy AND base all the laws on the bible. And you certainly can't have freedom of speech or faith.

A law should NEVER be based on the bible or the koran or any other religious book. Europe used to mix up church and state pretty badly, and the results were horrible. And the same thing is happening in a lot of muslim countries. It has never worked, as far as I can see.

It's not about democracy or your and mine opinion or will. It's all about God and His will. We should obey His will and command no matter what it is without question what the world thinks about it. If God says homosexuality is an abomination, then we as Christians should say no to it no matter what we may think about it, what the world may think about it and try to think up an excuse for why it should be legal, good or compare it with other things.

Let a no be no and a yes be yes. God says NO to homosexuality and so should we. No point in discussion something that is so clear. For me, if you question this you question God.

[andross77]

just to put my opinion into this thread....

I think that Gay Marriage should NOT be legalized b/c homosexuality is a sin and an abomination before God. The way i know this, is because the Bible clearly states it and i believe it. The Bible tells me that someone who practices homosexuality will NOT enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Since i want as many people as possible to join me and Jesus and others in heaven, and the only alternative is eternity in Hell (separation from God, all that is Love and Good), I don't want the State to legalize one such thing that WILL send a person to Hell.

[holo]

It's not about democracy or your and mine opinion or will. It's all about God and His will. We should obey His will and command no matter what it is without question what the world thinks about it. If God says homosexuality is an abomination, then we as Christians should say no to it no matter what we may think about it, what the world may think about it and try to think up an excuse for why it should be legal, good or compare it with other things.

Let a no be no and a yes be yes. God says NO to homosexuality and so should we. No point in discussion something that is so clear. For me, if you question this you question God.
But then you should fight to outlaw EVERYthing that is sin. Like divorce, worshiping different Gods, being atheist, and so forth.

You could do that, but not in a democracy.

But then again, you can say no to worshiping false gods, for example, without demanding that everybody else does.

[holo]

just to put my opinion into this thread....

I think that Gay Marriage should NOT be legalized b/c homosexuality is a sin and an abomination before God. The way i know this, is because the Bible clearly states it and i believe it. The Bible tells me that someone who practices homosexuality will NOT enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Since i want as many people as possible to join me and Jesus and others in heaven, and the only alternative is eternity in Hell (separation from God, all that is Love and Good), I don't want the State to legalize one such thing that WILL send a person to Hell.Well, not being allowed to marry won't bring anyone to heaven either...

[addie]

hey everyone. i've just been reading through this and wanted to say a little something.

Sin is sin in God's eyes it does NOT matter if it is homesexuality, lying, stealing, hating, etc. Its sin and no matter what if you do any type of sin you are going to hell.

[aspirine]

Sure as doing so will help to bring the system down, and if you want to bring it all down every little bit helps.

[JeffTheLearner]

...yea, that just proves my point all the more. (My last post)

You kill all the disinformation, you slap down their silly arguments, and you show the error of their thinking.
Do they care to make a LOGICAL point? Because they fail to make a BIBLICAL ONE.
But...
Nope, they just ignore you.
They dont care about truth or practical reason.

...the funny thing is that these are the people on here giveing advice!

[andross77]

Well, not being allowed to marry won't bring anyone to heaven either...

that's obvious. but if we allow them to marry, hence APPROVING the act of homosexuality that is strictly condemned and said to disallow someone from entering God's Kingdom, THEN we are basically saying, "Here's your ticket to Hell. Have a nice ride."

BUT, if we don't approve Gay Marriage, we are standing up for what's right, being a GOOD advocate for Christ, and upholding his Holy commands.

Any other insights holo?

[flyingsum0]

that's obvious. but if we allow them to marry, hence APPROVING the act of homosexuality that is strictly condemned and said to disallow someone from entering God's Kingdom, THEN we are basically saying, "Here's your ticket to Hell. Have a nice ride."

BUT, if we don't approve Gay Marriage, we are standing up for what's right, being a GOOD advocate for Christ, and upholding his Holy commands.

Any other insights holo?

Just to save time bro, I think 3 or 4 people have used this argument now...just go to the original thread all teh reponses are there already:

http://www.christianforums.com/t4850301-should-gay-marriage-be-legalized.html

[andross77]

Just to save time bro, I think 3 or 4 people have used this argument now...just go to the original thread all teh reponses are there already:

http://www.christianforums.com/t4850301-should-gay-marriage-be-legalized.html

thanks sumo but i don't feel like reading the first 1000 responses, just wanted to add my opinion to this gargantuan thread. i'm sure it's all the standard pro-gay responses denying Scripture to justify sin. Then the standard rebuttals of this is what Scripture says, why are you twisting it.

it just goes round and round and round and will continue to do so till Christ comes back, everyone is silent, he points to his word that we have had access to this whole time, and then some people will rejoice b/c they have been vindicated and freed from this life of sin and others will weep and gnash their teeth b/c they denied the truth throughout their lives.

Just trying to do my part and stand up for Christ and his word. I'll respond a few times and then realize that it's an "intanetz forumz" and you don't accomplish much of anything by arguing with people :D
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[chapel247]

can anyone help me? I'd like to know if there's a place on this site that deals with widows or widowers?

[chapel247]

Hi Everyone! Is there a place on this site that deals with widows or widowers?

[pgp_protector]

Hi Everyone! Is there a place on this site that deals with widows or widowers?
Give me a few seconds to give you the link

EDIT:
There you are
http://www.christianforums.com/f572-widow-widowers.html

[holo]

that's obvious. but if we allow them to marry, hence APPROVING the act of homosexuality that is strictly condemned and said to disallow someone from entering God's Kingdom, THEN we are basically saying, "Here's your ticket to Hell. Have a nice ride."

BUT, if we don't approve Gay Marriage, we are standing up for what's right, being a GOOD advocate for Christ, and upholding his Holy commands.

Any other insights holo?When you grant someone the right to be muslim, do you then approve of islam?

[rosiecotton]

thanks sumo but i don't feel like reading the first 1000 responses, just wanted to add my opinion to this gargantuan thread. i'm sure it's all the standard pro-gay responses denying Scripture to justify sin. Then the standard rebuttals of this is what Scripture says, why are you twisting it.

it just goes round and round and round and will continue to do so till Christ comes back, everyone is silent, he points to his word that we have had access to this whole time, and then some people will rejoice b/c they have been vindicated and freed from this life of sin and others will weep and gnash their teeth b/c they denied the truth throughout their lives.

Just trying to do my part and stand up for Christ and his word. I'll respond a few times and then realize that it's an "intanetz forumz" and you don't accomplish much of anything by arguing with people :D
</IMG>

But if you would actually READ what they have said, you would see that most of those who are saying gay marriage should be legal, aren't saying it isn't sin. They are merely saying you can't make laws based on the Bible, simply because we as Christians believe in the Bible.
I'm not going to explain it over and over again, because it's already been done.

[andross77]

But if you would actually READ what they have said, you would see that most of those who are saying gay marriage should be legal, aren't saying it isn't sin. They are merely saying you can't make laws based on the Bible, simply because we as Christians believe in the Bible.
I'm not going to explain it over and over again, because it's already been done.

This makes no sense. Do you think heaven is going to be made up of man-made rules not based on the bible? No. God is going to be the ruling authority and his word is going to be law. Shouldn't we try to make it that way here on earth as much as possible? If you are a Christian the answer should be Yes.

There is no more complete a picture of what life actually is than Scripture. There is no better moral guideline than Scripture. There is no better book on how to view and use your finances than Scripture. There is no better book on how to have a successful marriage than Scripture. etc, etc, etc etc. How far do i have to go?

I would say, "OF COURSE you make laws based on the Bible". Otherwise what are you making laws based on? Man's understanding! And Scripture speaks repeatedly against using man as the measure of all things and that he who trusts in his own strength will perish. Am i missing some secret part of Scripture that says we should make up our Laws based on what makes most people happy or what makes "most sense" in our minds???

[andross77]

When you grant someone the right to be muslim, do you then approve of islam?

I don't know what you are saying here but a Christian should never "WANT" or "GRANT" or "DESIRE" or "WISH" or "LEAVE" someone as Muslim. Since a Christian understands that a Muslim, just like an atheist or a humanist or a Satanist or anyone other than a follower of Christ is going to hell, why would a Christian EVER "grant someone the right to be muslim"?

And don't say just b/c i live in America and there are American Muslims and i haven't gone around and told every single one of them, "I don't grant you the right to practice your religion" that i am in essence granting them the right to be muslim. That is not the case. Whenever i talk to a muslim, and it's appropriate in the conversation, I speak about my faith and Christ and try to steer them away from the evil religion that Islam is.


So your question does not need to be answered b/c it's a situation that would never come up if you were a true Christian. Please rephrase or use a different example to make your point that Homosexual marriage should be legal.

[holo]

This makes no sense. Do you think heaven is going to be made up of man-made rules not based on the bible? No. God is going to be the ruling authority and his word is going to be law. Shouldn't we try to make it that way here on earth as much as possible? If you are a Christian the answer should be Yes.

There is no more complete a picture of what life actually is than Scripture. There is no better moral guideline than Scripture. There is no better book on how to view and use your finances than Scripture. There is no better book on how to have a successful marriage than Scripture. etc, etc, etc etc. How far do i have to go?

I would say, "OF COURSE you make laws based on the Bible". Otherwise what are you making laws based on? Man's understanding! And Scripture speaks repeatedly against using man as the measure of all things and that he who trusts in his own strength will perish. Am i missing some secret part of Scripture that says we should make up our Laws based on what makes most people happy or what makes "most sense" in our minds???Well, I don't see the bible saying that you should make laws at all. And you won't see neither Jesus nor the disciples fighting to make or change laws. If you want to base all the laws on the bible you can't have democracy.

Laws against theft, for example, aren't based on the bible, but on a common moral ideal that stealing is wrong.

[holo]

I don't know what you are saying here but a Christian should never "WANT" or "GRANT" or "DESIRE" or "WISH" or "LEAVE" someone as Muslim. Since a Christian understands that a Muslim, just like an atheist or a humanist or a Satanist or anyone other than a follower of Christ is going to hell, why would a Christian EVER "grant someone the right to be muslim"?

And don't say just b/c i live in America and there are American Muslims and i haven't gone around and told every single one of them, "I don't grant you the right to practice your religion" that i am in essence granting them the right to be muslim. That is not the case. Whenever i talk to a muslim, and it's appropriate in the conversation, I speak about my faith and Christ and try to steer them away from the evil religion that Islam is.


So your question does not need to be answered b/c it's a situation that would never come up if you were a true Christian. Please rephrase or use a different example to make your point that Homosexual marriage should be legal.The question is, do you think it should be legal to be atheist or muslim? Or should there be a law against it?

[holo]

This makes no sense. Do you think heaven is going to be made up of man-made rules not based on the bible? No. God is going to be the ruling authority and his word is going to be law. Shouldn't we try to make it that way here on earth as much as possible? If you are a Christian the answer should be Yes.Will Earth be more like heaven by deciding that a man shouldn't be allowed to marry another man? :scratch:

And do you think there will be, say, tax or traffic laws in heaven? If not, then why have them here?

A democracy on Earth isn't supposed to resemble heaven. Rather, the kingdom of God is IN us and around us. We are in the world, but not of it. And our task is to further the kingdom, not to meddle with legislation. Not that it's wrong to fight for good laws - we should - but that won't bring anyone to Christ.

[andross77]

Well, I don't see the bible saying that you should make laws at all. And you won't see neither Jesus nor the disciples fighting to make or change laws. If you want to base all the laws on the bible you can't have democracy.

Laws against theft, for example, aren't based on the bible, but on a common moral ideal that stealing is wrong.

The laws that Jesus and his disciples followed (yes, they followed laws) are based on the moral convictions God puts in every single person and on the truth of Creation. Jesus would not have/does not condone Gay Marriage b/c it is a union of sin, very simply.

I would argue that laws against theft ARE based on the bible since it is God's word and God's word tells us the mind of God and it is part of the mind of God that "Thou shalt not steal".

[andross77]

The question is, do you think it should be legal to be atheist or muslim? Or should there be a law against it?

That is not the question and what you pose is a trap. We have freedom in Christ and that's what we offer to other people. If they want to stay in bondage to sin, satan, and their worldy flesh, that is their choice that God in his perfect Sovereignty gives them.

[andross77]

Will Earth be more like heaven by deciding that a man shouldn't be allowed to marry another man? :scratch:

And do you think there will be, say, tax or traffic laws in heaven? If not, then why have them here?

A democracy on Earth isn't supposed to resemble heaven. Rather, the kingdom of God is IN us and around us. We are in the world, but not of it. And our task is to further the kingdom, not to meddle with legislation. Not that it's wrong to fight for good laws - we should - but that won't bring anyone to Christ.

Yes, to your first question. We know that those who practice homosexuality will not be in God's kingdom. So if keep men from marrying by law, i.e. approving of the sinful act, we do make earth a small bit more like heaven.

I agree with you that a democracy on earth doesn't resemble heaven. In heaven it will be a theocracy and everything will be perfect in every way.

i can agree with you that our main job is not to meddle with legislation. But if we vote FOR gay marriage or killing of innocent babies we are not bringing people closer to Christ but rather adding to their confusion and lostness. We have been appointed to be Christ's representatives on Earth. So we must talk, think and act like him. I fail at this daily b/c i am a sinner. But that is my goal, not friendship with the world.

[holo]

The laws that Jesus and his disciples followed (yes, they followed laws) are based on the moral convictions God puts in every single person and on the truth of Creation. Jesus would not have/does not condone Gay Marriage b/c it is a union of sin, very simply.Maybe, but Christ always changed (and still changes) people from the inside out. Of course he lived according to a higher standard, but you can't legislate that standard. You must be born again.

I would argue that laws against theft ARE based on the bible since it is God's word and God's word tells us the mind of God and it is part of the mind of God that "Thou shalt not steal".They could just as easily be based on the koran. I think most cultures that ever existed has some sort of law against theft.

[holo]

That is not the question and what you pose is a trap. We have freedom in Christ and that's what we offer to other people. If they want to stay in bondage to sin, satan, and their worldy flesh, that is their choice that God in his perfect Sovereignty gives them.The thing is, if something should be illegal because the bible labels it as sin, then everything that is sin according to the bible, should be illegal. How can we pick and choose which sins to condemn with the bible? It condemns ALL sin.

But yes, we're supposed to offer freedom in Christ. I doubt legislation is a good method for that though.

[holo]

Yes, to your first question. We know that those who practice homosexuality will not be in God's kingdom. So if keep men from marrying by law, i.e. approving of the sinful act, we do make earth a small bit more like heaven.For who? They'll still go to hell, but at least they weren't allowed to marry each other...

What scares me is that I suspect most christians oppose same-sex marriage, not for the sake of any homosexuals, but for the sake of their own sense of morality being offended.

i can agree with you that our main job is not to meddle with legislation. But if we vote FOR gay marriage or killing of innocent babies we are not bringing people closer to Christ but rather adding to their confusion and lostness.There's a huge difference between same-sex marriage and abortion. Abortion has obvious victims (unless you believe the fetus/child isn't a human being).
There may be good arguments against same-sex marriage, but the bible isn't one of them.

We have been appointed to be Christ's representatives on Earth. So we must talk, think and act like him. I fail at this daily b/c i am a sinner. But that is my goal, not friendship with the world.Christians are more known for their morality than for resembling Christ. There's no excuse for that, and it's the christians' own fault.

[andross77]

Maybe, but Christ always changed (and still changes) people from the inside out. Of course he lived according to a higher standard, but you can't legislate that standard. You must be born again.

They could just as easily be based on the koran. I think most cultures that ever existed has some sort of law against theft.

i agree with your first paragraph, but i heartily disagree with your 2nd.

You only make that statement based on the viewpoint that we did not actually see the bible or koran form so we can't really know which is from God and which is from man. If you believe that, or want to argue from that viewpoint, i have no business with you. That is a whole other issue that a Christian has to address with a pagan in an apologetic defense.

As a Christian you SHOULD be coming from the stance that Scripture is the ONLY word of God and that the Koran is man-made and one of the MANY tricks of the devil to keep people from putting their faith in Christ. Since this is the case, we know that any other religion that says theft is wrong is only copying what Scripture tells us and regurgitating what the Father has planted inside of us. Any religion or culture that says stealing (or adultery or homosexuality or a host of other things) is OK, is following their father, the devil, who is the father of lies.

[andross77]

The main point is, from a Christian perspective, why would a Christian ever condone something that is sinful? Two men being brothers is not a sin. Two men who are very close friends (like David and Jonathan) is not a sin. But two men that have sex with each other is an ABOMINATION before the Lord and a sin. The purpose of Gay Marriage is not just to have equal rights as Marriage but as a place for monogamous sexual relations (just like Marriage).

If a Christian says they support Gay Marriage they are NOT just saying, "I support you as a fellow human being and i know you struggle with many sins, one of them being homosexuality, just as i struggle with many sins. I want you to be treated equally b/c God loves us all the same." I WOULD SAY THAT.

By approving Gay Marriage you are saying, "i have nothing wrong with the act of homosexuality and i don't believe what God's word says. I know better than God and think that if two people care for each other they can have sex with each no matter if it's F-F or M-M.

That is what's wrong and why this question should not even be asked in Christian circles. This should be a "debate" or discussion between a Christian and an unbeliever.

[holo]

i agree with your first paragraph, but i heartily disagree with your 2nd.

You only make that statement based on the viewpoint that we did not actually see the bible or koran form so we can't really know which is from God and which is from man. If you believe that, or want to argue from that viewpoint, i have no business with you. That is a whole other issue that a Christian has to address with a pagan in an apologetic defense.

As a Christian you SHOULD be coming from the stance that Scripture is the ONLY word of God and that the Koran is man-made and one of the MANY tricks of the devil to keep people from putting their faith in Christ. Since this is the case, we know that any other religion that says theft is wrong is only copying what Scripture tells us and regurgitating what the Father has planted inside of us. Any religion or culture that says stealing (or adultery or homosexuality or a host of other things) is OK, is following their father, the devil, who is the father of lies.The point isn't whether or not the bible is the word of God and so forth, but whether laws should be based on it or not. I say that it shouldn't, and in a democracy, it CAN'T.

The bible isn't a law book and shouldn't be used as such. And in every case when a government has tried to rule based on the bible, the results have been about as horrible as when they're ruling by the koran. It's misuse of the bible to do such a thing.

[holo]

The main point is, from a Christian perspective, why would a Christian ever condone something that is sinful?I don't condone atheism, but I condone the right to be atheist, of course.

If a Christian says they support Gay Marriage they are NOT just saying, "I support you as a fellow human being and i know you struggle with many sins, one of them being homosexuality, just as i struggle with many sins. I want you to be treated equally b/c God loves us all the same." I WOULD SAY THAT.I don't "support" "gay marriage" - I support the right for adults to marry another adult of their choice.

[andross77]

I don't condone atheism, but I condone the right to be atheist, of course.

I don't "support" "gay marriage" - I support the right for adults to marry another adult of their choice.

Ok, from your last 2 posts i can see we fundamentally disagree on the role of Scripture in people's lives. I guess we can agree to disagree. Good talking with you and i wish you well. You are a good arguer (sp? word, even? hehe) but i have no more energy for a topic that is so simply wrong in my mind.

Peace.

[aspirine]

hey everyone. i've just been reading through this and wanted to say a little something.

Sin is sin in God's eyes it does NOT matter if it is homesexuality, lying, stealing, hating, etc. Its sin and no matter what if you do any type of sin you are going to hell.
Perfectionism is a Pauline Heresy not found in the OT. In fact God has a history of choosing people with flaws to be his prophets and leaders.

[aspirine]

This topic should be posted in Christians Only Section > Theology > Christian

Philosophy & Ethics > Debates on Homosexuality
not here.

[Controverse]

I honestly believe that while I do not agree with homosexuality and wish it to be abolished/illegalized, sadly in this world that will not happen.

As taking up any action to forcefully quell the rights of homosexuals to be homosexuals will only hurt Christianity in the long run by causing non-believers to think very negatively of us as a whole, I think that homosexuals should be allowed to engage in a civil union by law.

But remember that as much as homosexuals like to brag about their "marriage", they can keep fooling themselves and what they don't realize is that a civil union is not exactly the same as a real marriage. A civil union is really just a worldly bond between two people of any gender mix, but a marriage is a real, acceptable bond between a man and a woman.

If they wanna get "married", that's fine and it's their decision. That is why it should be made legal. You wouldn't think of outlawing fornication, so why two gays getting married?

[flyingsum0]

I honestly believe that while I do not agree with homosexuality and wish it to be abolished/illegalized, sadly in this world that will not happen.

As taking up any action to forcefully quell the rights of homosexuals to be homosexuals will only hurt Christianity in the long run by causing non-believers to think very negatively of us as a whole, I think that homosexuals should be allowed to engage in a civil union by law.

But remember that as much as homosexuals like to brag about their "marriage", they can keep fooling themselves and what they don't realize is that a civil union is not exactly the same as a real marriage. A civil union is really just a worldly bond between two people of any gender mix, but a marriage is a real, acceptable bond between a man and a woman.

If they wanna get "married", that's fine and it's their decision. That is why it should be made legal. You wouldn't think of outlawing fornication, so why two gays getting married?

So you think homosexuality should be illegal but gay marriage should be legal? Intresting concept...I think...

[TheLivingWater]

Yes !
Legalize gay marriage !
The love betwean man and man and woman and woman is just the same !

Also legalize Pedofil love !
And maby Rapists love ? They love theyr victims right ? no ?

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :cry:

[Lightcreated]

Who care's what other's would think, a true christian should never care what the world think's of them.
The only thing that a child of God should be worried about is pleasing God.

[JeffTheLearner]

First I posted this... and they said nothing.
(post 34)
---------------------------------------------------------
(Forgive the parables, but some here think that “advocating” free speech, means “restricting” the free speech of others.):P

Anyways, I don’t even know why I’m bothering with this… but I guess I care.
But common sense tells me, even from a (non-biblical) standpoint.
That if a bunch of people came into my country, and they saying that they are allies, but they do not fear our leader, they don’t listen to him. He tells them not to break his laws and not only do they break them, but they encourage others to break the laws. They say they are friends, yet when any citizen of the land tries to tell them to obey the laws of the land. They tell them,
“Oh, that law was made 20 years ago, that’s old. Things have changed. This is how things are now. But even if we are wrong. We are going to do what we want anyway, and show complete disregard for your laws, and leader.”

I don’t know why anyone would consider them allies. It would be obvious that they are in complete opposition, and despise our leader, and laws.

But setting aside things about who we should care to listen to, and focusing on the main question of this post:

Should homosexuality be legalized?

No it should not, and I’ll tell you why. Even from a (non biblical) standpoint, once again.
First of all stealing is illegal, yet I hear silly philosophies such as, “people have free will, blogh… blogh… blogh… and people steal” …saying this in a sense to justify the LEAGLIZATION of homosexuality, which is a dumb point I might add.
So by this I should come to the conclusion that because people steal, we should LEGALIZE it? And because people murder, do drugs, and drive around drunk we should LEGALIZE those too?
So, need I add more?
Ok, so we have established that this is a not a well thought out point. Which tells you much about the deprived mind.
But lets ask are self...
why is robbery illegal?

Well first of all its bad for the economy, for businesses, cities, towns, and citizens of the whole country, no one could make an honest dollar without being robbed. Also no one would want to do any business with that country, and the citizens within it. That would knock out all imports and exports. Imports for cheaper goods which make things even harder on those left out there, trying to make an honest buck. Also the elimination of exports would confine business within that country, which would limit jobs and business opportunities, knocking out the whole shipping, and trucking industry. This making things even more harder on those looking for work. Also those who have jobs, which are in high demand, would be treated like crud by their employer because they can.

So from all this we could come to the conclusion, that robbery is illegal because its bad for the economy, business, and workers. So this law was made to PRESERVE THE ECONOMY, and ENCOURAGE ECONIMIC GROWTH!

So what laws would be appropriate to PRESERVE AND ENCOURAGE population growth?

Well first off it would be appropriate to "encourage" marriage between a male and female. Also it would prophet the country to "discourage" divorce, and sexual deviance.
With exception to the latter thing (in some cases), these are in place now! You want a divorce? …it will cost you. You want to marry, …you can on every corner, also in most states you don’t even have to. If you just live with someone for longer than a year they count you as married. This is not done by accident.

So why would a country want to encourage marriage between a man and woman only?
First of all it is the most timeless and oldest way to increase a nations population.
Second of all, it is a union most likely to raise up healthy, hard working, responsible, moral, and better educated future population to REPLACE, and INCREASE workers, defending armies, and territories, causing economic growth and a more hopeful future.

Why would a nation need population growth?
Well I kind of answered that just above this, but ignorance is such a contagious dieses further explanation cant ever hurt.

1) Armies protect and defend the nation.
2) Workers sustain the armies, build up the economy, and develop territories.
3) Workers increase luxuries, art, media, and education.
4) Army growth is a great deterrent to any nation of invading hopefuls.

As for marriage being the most likely institution to raise up more healthy, hard working, responsible, moral, and a better educated population.

I would ask. Would you rather entrust the future of the nation to anything less?

I would enthusiastically say with great zeal, NO!
(Also influencing the next generation after them, to produce with thier proper mate. That helps too!)

So what is the argument for the other side?
“We want to do it, so it should be legal!” or
“People do it, so we should allow it!”

Their whole argument is nothing more then that, they blabber and blabber, and continue to blabber, yet their argument in all translations is just saying the same thing over, and over again,
“we want to do it, so it should be legal”,
...which is a dumb reason to legalize anything this important, for both the Nation, and society!

~FIN

Your friendly fellow Nation dweller;
-JeffTheLearner




P.S. I want to thank God for giving me the "ability" to explain how people richly flourish when they follow His truth, and ways, without referencing to His Word. The thing I would rather do, but people who say they follow him, yet despise His Word, and wont listen to it. So I have to resort to other ways.:cry: :sigh: :help:
-----------------------------------------------------

Then I said this in my next post:
(post 49)
----------------------------------------------------------

...yea, that just proves my point all the more. (My last post)

You kill all the disinformation, you slap down their silly arguments, and you show the error of their thinking.
Do they care to make a LOGICAL point? Because they fail to make a BIBLICAL ONE.
But...
Nope, they just ignore you.
They dont care about truth or practical reason.

...the funny thing is that these are the people on here giveing advice!
-----------------------------------------------------------

And still nothing....

A wolf will most likly go for the weekest of the flock.

.........LOL!:sigh:

[MezzaMorta]

Of course it should. There is absolutely no reason to deny rights to an individual because of their sexual orientation.

Like I said in another thread

The bible never says force your beliefs on anyone. I apply my religious beliefs to my life, that is all I can do. It is pointless for me to expect others to have the same ideals as me. I keep my religion to myself, if someone is a homosexual that is their life, they are free to do with it what they want. being a homosexual does not stop them from being a good person or livening a happy life. I am 100% for gay rights, there is no reason our government should deny them any of the rights afforded to heterosexuals.

I work with many homosexuals, one of whom is my boss and he and his partner recently both got married and adopted a baby. Not only is his marriage one of the most truly loving relationships i have witnessed in my life, but I could not think of two people more deserving and capable of raising a child.

[SMoss]

It's not about democracy or your and mine opinion or will. It's all about God and His will. We should obey His will and command no matter what it is without question what the world thinks about it. If God says homosexuality is an abomination, then we as Christians should say no to it no matter what we may think about it, what the world may think about it and try to think up an excuse for why it should be legal, good or compare it with other things.

Let a no be no and a yes be yes. God says NO to homosexuality and so should we. No point in discussion something that is so clear. For me, if you question this you question God.

I don't mean to sound forward, but this, frankly, frightens me a bit. The whole point of a secular, democratic government is to allow all of its citizens the right to live as they see fit. Yes, that will inevitably lead to boatloads of sin, but such mistakes are the choices of people, and people must choose whether they wish to follow God or not. You can't legislate morality or else people will rebel against it; rather, a change must occur within a person's heart.

I don't like homosexuality. That's not to say that I have a problem with homosexuals - I don't. "Hate the sin, love the sinner" has already been posted many times in this thread, but it's true. After all, aren't we all sinners? What makes one sin worse than another? Homosexuality may be an abomination, but doesn't God had hypocrisy and lies too? Yer we all fall to those all too often. And in this case - and I recognize this is a point of contention for many Christians - I don't think being a homosexual is something that the vast majority of gay people can be blamed for. It's an abomination, but not an abomination that they chose. To me, it seems obvious that most gay people are born gay. That doesn't make it right; after all, we're all born sinful. Sin has simply manifested itself, unfortunately, in an unnatural predisposition towards members of their own sex - and I do mean "unnatural" in the most biological of terms, since homosexuality goes against the natural order of creating offspring. We don't have a problem with accepting that some people have genetic predispositions towards violence, do we? I don't really see a difference.

In any event, it's not our place to "outlaw" sin, as if that could ever be accomplished. It didn't work in the Middle Ages, back when every European nation was "Christian" (at least nominally) and the Catholic Church had a stranglehold on religion, it won't work now, and it won't work in the future. In fact, the only time that sin will ever stop is when Jesus returns. Until then, it's not our job to set up some sort of authoritarian theocracy that harasses nonbelievers, and which probably would be rife with corruption anyway. Our job is to be loving and understanding, but also to speak our minds without shoving it down people's throats and thus accidentally keeping people away from the Truth. And personally, I find the best form of government for such a life to be a secular democracy, because it allows everyone to make their own decisions. God gave us free will. Let people use it. Some will use it right and some will use it wrong, but we can't force people to do something that they don't want to. Likewise, they can't force us to do something we don't want to.

Sorry for rambling. I guess, if I had to sum this all up, I would just say that gay marriage shouldn't be outlawed if only because every person has to make their own choice.

[JeffTheLearner]

MezzaMortaOf course it should. There is absolutely no reason to deny rights to an individual because of their sexual orientation.

Like I said in another thread

The bible never says force your beliefs on anyone. I apply my religious beliefs to my life, that is all I can do. It is pointless for me to expect others to have the same ideals as me. I keep my religion to myself, if someone is a homosexual that is their life, they are free to do with it what they want. being a homosexual does not stop them from being a good person or livening a happy life. I am 100% for gay rights, there is no reason our government should deny them any of the rights afforded to heterosexuals.

I work with many homosexuals, one of whom is my boss and he and his partner recently both got married and adopted a baby. Not only is his marriage one of the most truly loving relationships i have witnessed in my life, but I could not think of two people more deserving and capable of raising a child.


So by your statement again you say "people do it, so it should be legal."
Which as I said is a dumb reason to legalize anything.

But as for your cute story on the two gay men who adopted a child.
First of all I will ask you, did they make that child?

But lets use are brain for a moment,
Hummm…. How many children would these two men have if they both took wives instead?
Would they both at least have two children between the both of them?
Most likely!
So first of all they have contributed -2 children to the population of the future thriving nation in which they dwell.
But lets think some more.
Hummm… So, the wives they would have married… What happened to them?
Well seeing the population growth of women exceeds that of men. (if you don't believe this, the result still remains the same.)
Hummm… Are they now going about town causing instability in other marriages?
Maybe! If so they are disrupting the stability of the healthy up bringing of children within other marriages.
But that conclusion may be a little hard to prove so lets go with a more applicable conclusion.
Those two women would increase the competition among other women toward single men.
So what does competition compel others to do?
Well, in business situations competition compels businesses to do what others wont do.
So lets think about this with our common sense….
Would competition among women increase morality and civility, or decrease morality and civility?
…well given the knowledge that men will indeed go for one who is more easy, and more willing to do what they want.
I would say that it will most likely decrease morality, and civility.

So what is to happen to a child as a result of a union such as this?
Well, most likely it ends in divorce. Standards are lowered, and competition is high. Thus why should it not affect marriage? History has shown this to be true, and our current times have shown this to be true.
So again I ask, what will happen to a child as a result of a union such as this?
Well mostly all children from divorced families end up high school drop outs, on drugs, or a large part of the contributing factors in increased crime rates.
But don't get me wrong, I do believe in successes stories. But unfortunately they mostly end up accumulating around low wage jobs.

Anyways as for the child brought up by these two men, what is going to be his preference?
…well, I'm not going to say other men but, it would be a much easier task for that child to come to that same conclusion, and fall into that same behavior.
But lets just think about the mindset of a child raised by two gay men.
Hummm…. Could this child convince others that gay behaviors are acceptable to his friends?
Well… yea!
So his confused friends could also use him as further testimony to indulge in such ways that are unproductive according to nature. Thus contributing to a way of thinking which is unproductive to a more mainstream.

Anyways,
In this part I will mention the Bible, (though I would say according to your disregard of Truth in the bible, you wouldn't care what it does and says anyway, but aside from that)…
Will the mainstreaming of this error increase respect for Gods Living Word, or decrease it?
Well, seeing that the behavior is in opposition to Gods Word, I would say, it would most likely decrease it. (which, when it comes to people practicing SELF GOVERNMENT through Gods Word in fear of God contributes to a more civil and moral nation.)
So to you all out there compromising the Word of God to allow your personal views to get in the way of the Truth for the lousy acceptance of mainstream culture, I would say that you are both helping to distort Gods Word, and helping to convince people in all falseness that the Word of God is obsolete.

Anyways, to legalize gay marriage would be a dumb solution for any thriving nation.
And to do it just to appease a minority populous is even dumber.

When people stand on an issue they need to quit using their brains to fart out dumb points.
Quit being so one-dimensional!
The behavior of homosexuality does affect YOU, it does affect YOUR CHILDREN, and it does affect the stability of YOUR NATION!

As for your Church,
Your Church now shows less respect for Gods Word. People feel less impassioned about supporting their Church. Your Churches are also slowly but surly being watered down to this mille mouthed, gobbily [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth], that isn't worth the dollar tossed in its offering bucket.
(This is a perfect brewing ground for false religion, churches of traditions only, and churches that have complete disregard for Gods Word.)

~FIN.:thumbsup:

[IamRedeemed]

amen. :-)

My reply was to statement below

{{{{{{Hi EnemypartyII,
First we both know that allthough God asked for the sacrifice of Isaac from Abraham He did not allow him to go through with it but rather provided the sacrifice Himself, Abraham was being tested by God, that God may see how obediant he was, God still tests us today, the means of the test in some cases have not changed either, God can require you or I to give up somone we love.
As to the destruction of Nineveh, I believe that God still judges people in this way, nations even, this IMO is what has been happening to Israel they are disobediant to God, they did not recognise the time of their visitation from God and so are under judgement untill they repent and say "blessed is he who comes in the name of the LORD." It was Gods judgement that caused Jerusalem to be completely destroyed by the Romans. It is not hard to believe that natural diasters are the judgement of God.

But God does not change, He is the same "yesterday today and forever," therefore why did He view homosexuality as an abomination before Him in the OT, and not in the new?

Mark}}}

[MezzaMorta]

So by your statement again you say "people do it, so it should be legal."
Which as I said is a dumb reason to legalize anything.

No, by my statement I said that an individual should not be denied their rights because of their sexual orientation, just like race or gender.

A homosexual couple living in a long term relationship that wish to get married should not be denied that right. If there is any reason you can think of we should deny homosexuals rights I would love to hear it.

But as for your cute story on the two gay men who adopted a child.
First of all I will ask you, did they make that child?

Nope, they adopted it from China.


But lets use are brain for a moment,
Hummm…. How many children would these two men have if they both took wives instead?

I'm sure plenty, but they don't need to. There are millions of innocent children that need a loveing home. Children that have no parents, who were abonded by theirs or who have been taken from their parents because they were abusive to them.

They gave a child who other wise would of had no one and given it a loving home. Are you suggesting that is a bad thing?

So first of all they have contributed -2 children to the population of the future thriving nation in which they dwell.

There are hundreds of parentless children in America alone, they don't need to bring any child in to this world. They can provide a loveing home to a child who otherwise wouldn't have it.

Hummm… So, the wives they would have married… What happened to them?

They don't exist, they are gay. That means they wouldn't be marrying any women.

But that conclusion may be a little hard to prove so lets go with a more applicable conclusion.
Those two women would increase the competition among other women toward single men.
So what does competition compel others to do?
Well, in business situations competition compels businesses to do what others wont do.
So lets think about this with our common sense….
Would competition among women increase morality and civility, or decrease morality and civility?
…well given the knowledge that men will indeed go for one who is more easy, and more willing to do what they want.
I would say that it will most likely decrease morality, and civility.

So what everyone should be provided a number at birth that pre-arranges our spouse when we come of age?

Are you joking? Sounds like you advocate some Orwellian state which complaetly eliminate our personal freedom for the "good of the state".

So what is to happen to a child as a result of a union such as this?

She will grow up with two parents who love her and each other. She will have alot better life than she would have as a Chinese orphan.

Well mostly all children from divorced families end up high school drop outs, on drugs, or a large part of the contributing factors in increased crime rates.

Where do you get this nonsence?

Anyways as for the child brought up by these two men, what is going to be his preference?

Her preference will be what ever she is genetically inclined to.

Anyways, to legalize gay marriage would be a dumb solution for any thriving nation.
And to do it just to appease a minority populous is even dumber.

JeffTheLearner if he lived in the 1920's: "Anyways, to legalize interracial marriage would be a dumb solution for any thriving nation.
And to do it just to appease a minority populous is even dumber."

As for your Church,
Your Church now shows less respect for Gods Word. People feel less impassioned about supporting their Church. Your Churches are also slowly but surly being watered down to this mille mouthed, gobbily [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth], that isn't worth the dollar tossed in its offering bucket.

Because such hatred is exactly what Jesus preached about.....

[JeffTheLearner]

Well… ummmm… I'm sure your buddies from CodePink would always be glad to come here and agree with all your responses. But anyone with two brain cells left in their head would understand that all my statements were completely over your head.
…given your responses, LOL… should I retype them in Russian? Greek? Maybe you don't understand English or something. …LOL!

Anyways… So your point is still "People do it, so it should be legal."
You can toss in all the alternative names for homosexuality you want between that statement. Like sexual diversity, homosexual, transgender, or whatever.
Your still saying the same thing!
Maybe your head is like an old radio. If you slap it a couple of times it might start working properly.

Anyways you have attacked me personally by calling me a "HATER".
Which I'm not, I just said that it should not be legal and I gave you a list of reasons why.

Also you said if I was in the 1920's Id be "raciest". First of all I'm not, and you insult me.
Second of all you insulted all of the people on here of different nationalities who cant change the color of their skin, equating them with the folly of those who make bad choices. You should be ashamed of yourself!

Sorry to be grotesque, but if someone was behaving in a strange sexual behavior toward an animal, and if I said it was wrong, would you say I'm racist?
Or, lets say that we found out how to communicate with animals, and they could consent to such behavior. …and I said it was still wrong. Would you still say I'm "out dated" and give me this silly spill about sexual diversity, and then to top it all off call me racist again?
LOL… You guys toss that word around all the time. All you do is insult others. You know what is wrong, yet you are too scared to stand on Truth. So I understand the coward ness of compromising it and agreeing with the "If it feels good, DO IT!" crowd.

But a side from that, all those children you are talking about that (MUST BE ADOPTED)!
Are you saying a married couple cant adopt them?
Also, someone is taking care of all those children.
They are somewhere being put up for adoption.
Its not like people are holding the kids until they are 4 years old, and then putting them before a firing squad.
From your statement we should get the gist as if all the gay people in the world have been moved with compassion to adopt children.
Yea, I see all over the news.
Millions of gay people are adopting orphans!
A mass exodus of homosexuals converts from childless to child rearing!
I saw it on Fairytale News the other day.
No, no… never mind, the Cookie Monster told me it. …LOL!

You know what?
I don't care what you say.
The Bible tells me not to give such people a voice.
Those who are confused will read my post and see why its bad for a nation.
Those are the people who I'm writing to.
Your trying to convert Christians toward your way of thinking.
Your house is built on the sand. They will see your day.

P.S. In my last post what is up with the [wash my mouth] [wash my mouth] thing?
Is "gobbly [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]" a bad word in Latin or French or something? I thought it was just a term for blabbering, or speaking vanity. …LOL!
Also .F.Y.I, I was the only of two or three white kid’s in an all-Hawaiian school… LOL! I know how bad racism is from experiencing it. I want no part in it. Speaking out about bad behavior, and the nationality of someone are two differnt things. As for the "out dated" thing.. I'm only 28 years old ...LOL!

[bluemarkus]

No It Should Never Be Legalized !!!

[MezzaMorta]

I'm sure your buddies from CodePink would always be glad to come here and agree with all your responses.

Well I do not know who that is, but it does not matter. I do not formulate my opinions based on who agrees with them, so if "Codepink" agrees with them... thats great i am glade we see eye to eye on the issue but it is not a motivateing factor in my decision.

But anyone with two brain cells left in their head would understand that all my statements were completely over your head.

I was a bit confused at some of your statements, but I garentee it was not due to it begin "over" my head, more so that i simply did not believe that any person would ever hold such illogical views.

should I retype them in Russian? Greek? Maybe you don't understand English or something. …LOL!

If you want to reply in Italian, Arabic or French i am fluent in all, but I am fluent in English as well so I say we stick with it for your sake.

Anyways… So your point is still "People do it, so it should be legal."
You can toss in all the alternative names for homosexuality you want between that statement. Like sexual diversity, homosexual, transgender, or whatever.
Your still saying the same thing!
Maybe your head is like an old radio. If you slap it a couple of times it might start working properly.

If what a individual does, dose not imped of violate the rights of any other individual there is no reason why that activity should be illegal.

Two men getting married is not violating or harming any other individuals rights.

Anyways you have attacked me personally by calling me a "HATER".

You seem to have alot of unfounded anamosity towards homosexuals.

As well as your blantent insult of Pope John Paul II in your signature can be characterized as nothing more than hateful.

Which I'm not, I just said that it should not be legal and I gave you a list of reasons why.

Of which non were rational, founded or even comprehensible.


Sorry to be grotesque, but if someone was behaving in a strange sexual behavior toward and animal, and if I said it was wrong, would you say I'm racist?

How do you equate beaistality to two consenting adults?

But a side from that, all those children you are talking about that (MUST BE ADOPTED)!
Are you saying a married couple cant adopt them?

Do you read what you write, it makes no sense. Anyone can adopt them if they are approved. But that has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.

You know what?
I don't care what you say.
The Bible tells me not to give such people a voice.

not like we are all created equal or anything....

Those who are confused will read my post and see why its bad for a nation.

Bad for a nation? Are you suggesting that the good of a nation is more important than an individuals rights?

Stalin, Hitler and a long list of other dictators would be proud of you.

[JeffTheLearner]

MezzaMorta:
"Stalin, Hitler and a long list of other dictators would be proud of you."

LOL... Its common among evil dictators to list the names of other evil dictators and equate them with the people they hate. This is what they do before they convince the whole nation to steal their property, and kill them.

...Its ironic!

[MezzaMorta]

MezzaMorta:
"Stalin, Hitler and a long list of other dictators would be proud of you."

LOL... Its common among evil dictators to list the names of other evil dictators and equate them with the people they hate. This is what they do before they convince the whole nation to steal their property, and kill them.

...Its ironic!

What is scary is that you, like Stalin and others who have led the way for some of the greatest crimes on this earth share the fundamental principle that the "greater good" superceeds the rights of individuals.

It seems pretty evident that either you have no intention, or no capability to carry on a debate on this issue based on reason and logic.

You seem to fail to comprehend and apply the fundamental nature of being both a Christian and an American, both founded on the rights of everyone, not just a select few.

[JeffTheLearner]

First of all you know nothing about History. I think you burned up all those brain cells learning all those languages.

First of all Hitler was a Catholic and a New Age Occultist who was rumored to participate in homosexual activities.
Anyways He Killed Jewish people and the Christians who defended them.

As for Stalin, He was an Atheist who also was rumored to practice homosexuality.
He also killed many Jewish people, and Christians, MILLIONS!. He even tore down many churches, and converted some into museums commemorating communism.

But with your socialist views which are apparent, I’m sure Stalin would more likely be calling you “comrade”.

But aside from the name calling, and sucker punches you spew out from your blind sided rhetoric, even quoting me out of context to make your points. How can I argue with you?
How can anyone make any logical point with anyone who has a mind set like yours?
*****(TRUTH = HATE)*****:scratch:

The Catholics also killed many Christians for more than a thousand years calling them “heretics“. They too thought it proper to eliminate those who wanted “SOLA SCRIPTURA!”

As for today… You got Moslems in Sudan killing all the Christians exterminating them like bugs!
You know why?
Most Bible believing Christians speak the Truth of the Word and get in trouble for it, but they don’t pick up guns and go around killing people. Nope, they don’t fight back, and we get slaughtered. And we should, even in death we forgive. Christians have always been an easy target for violence. We speak Truth, The Living Word, and get killed for it. It is indeed an honor. And most who are zealous for Gods Word are willing to receive it.

P.S. As for your later comment about my “sig”, its not hateful. Those are true pictures, of true events. Any reader of the Word should be shocked that anyone under the banner of Christian, Would be kissing the Koran, getting anointed by a pagan priestess, greeting the leader of buddhism, and standing among other religious leaders like a pawn.
If a Moslem leader was caught kissing the bible like that, especially for all the cameras. That leader, and his family would be killed.
We point fingers, we don’t go around chasing people with machetes…LOL! :eek:

[MezzaMorta]

But with your socialist views which are apparent, I’m sure Stalin would more likely be calling you “comrade”.

I’m a Socialist?
I am espousing the rights of the Individual, you are saying that the rights of the collective are more important than the individual.
If anyone here is leaning towards socialism it is you and your view that “the rights of the many outweigh the rights of the few”
You got Moslems in Sudan killing all the Christians exterminating them like bugs!
You know why?
Because the oil rich provinces in the west wanted to separate, the northern government did not want to lose the resources so they denied it and a civil war has ensued.


You have still yet to manage to complete a comprehendible or logical reason as to why homosexuals should be denied equal rights to heterosexuals which is the topic of this thread.

[4EverBlessed]

As a Christian I can not support any laws that go against the Word of God. Yes, we all have free will, and not everyone believes in Jesus and we all have the right to do what we will, but we also have the right not to support anything that supports satan's agenda.

Bottom line is to ask yourself what should you be fighting for? What God loves or what God hates?

[MezzaMorta]

As a Christian I can not support any laws that go against the Word of God.

Which nation do you live in?

[*Starlight*]

As a Christian I can not support any laws that go against the Word of God. Yes, we all have free will, and not everyone believes in Jesus and we all have the right to do what we will, but we also have the right not to support anything that supports satan's agenda.

Bottom line is to ask yourself what should you be fighting for? What God loves or what God hates?
I don't believe that God hates love, so I totally support equal rights for homosexual and heterosexual couples.

[4EverBlessed]

I don't believe that God hates love, so I totally support equal rights for homosexual and heterosexual couples.
Of course God doesn't hate love, God is love. But He clearly does hate a homosexual lifestyle.

[4EverBlessed]

Which nation do you live in?
I am a U.S. citizen.

[MezzaMorta]

I am a U.S. citizen.

So I assume you pay taxes to the US Government?

[4EverBlessed]

So I assume you pay taxes to the US Government?
Um, what's your point?

[*Starlight*]

Of course God doesn't hate love, God is love. But He clearly does hate a homosexual lifestyle.
Homosexuality is a sexual orientation, not a lifestyle. And I don't believe God hates homosexual relationships.

[4EverBlessed]

Homosexuality is a sexual orientation, not a lifestyle. And I don't believe God hates homosexual relationships.
It is absolutely a lifestyle if you "practice" it. Just as a heterosexual relationship would be sin if 2 people who weren't married were engaging in sexual activity.

[MezzaMorta]

Um, what's your point?

You claim "As a Christian I can not support any laws that go against the Word of God."

Yet you support the US government, not only is it a secular nation but it is one that has many laws (abortion for one) that go against the word of God.

[4EverBlessed]

You claim "As a Christian I can not support any laws that go against the Word of God."

Yet you support the US government, not only is it a secular nation but it is one that has many laws (abortion for one) that go against the word of God.
I doubt that there is one government in the world that doesn't have something on the books that go against the Word of God. In a democracy we have the right to vote for or against something. That does not mean that the laws will line up the way we like. And for the record, I didn't vote to legalize abortion.

And for the record, paying taxes is really not a choice.

[*Starlight*]

It is absolutely a lifestyle if you "practice" it. Just as a heterosexual relationship would be sin if 2 people who weren't married were engaging in sexual activity.
Well, I don't see things in such a black and white way, so I don't agree... I believe that love is good, so a relationship based on love is also good... that includes both homosexual and heterosexual relationships :)

[TheLivingWater]

Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust toward one another; males with males working out shamefulness, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was fitting for their error.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not think fit to have God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do the things not right,
Rom 1:29 being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; being full of envy, murder, quarrels, deceit, evil habits, becoming whisperers,
Rom 1:30 backbiters, haters of God, insolent, proud, braggarts, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 undiscerning, perfidious, without natural affection, unforgiving, unmerciful;
Rom 1:32 who, knowing the righteous order of God, that those practicing such things are worthy of death, not only do them, but have pleasure in those practicing them.

:wave:

[Controverse]

So you think homosexuality should be illegal but gay marriage should be legal? Intresting concept...I think...

NO! I would think someone such as you could read?!

I'm saying that civil unions should be legalized. Homosexuality shouldn't be made illegal, because it impedes on the individual's right to sin. We were given a choice, and they've made their's. Let them pursue the lifestyle they want.

So by this I should come to the conclusion that because people steal, we should LEGALIZE it? And because people murder, do drugs, and drive around drunk we should LEGALIZE those too?

No, because robbery and murder affects people who are unwilling to be affected by such things. Homosexuals should be allowed their right to be homosexuals because it is consenting between the two partners. It is not hurting anyone, but robbery and murder do hurt people.

Yes !
Legalize gay marriage !
The love betwean man and man and woman and woman is just the same !

Also legalize Pedofil love !
And maby Rapists love ? They love theyr victims right ? no ?

Do NOT compare those things to homosexuality! For reasons I have stated just above, paedophilia and rape are not to be legalized because they obviously lack consent and thus impede on a "partaker's" free will to decide.

I should make it clear to all of you that I do not condone homosexuality, but I DO condone the right to practice it. I also condone the right of a person to use God's name in vain, love another of the same gender, think lustfully toward any person, and any other sin that does not directly affect a person who is unwilling to partake of the sin or the consequence.

[JeffTheLearner]

MezzaMorta Quote:
Originally Posted by 4EverBlessed
Um, what's your point?
You claim "As a Christian I can not support any laws that go against the Word of God."
Yet you support the US government, not only is it a secular nation but it is one that has many laws (abortion for one) that go against the word of God.

Yea, I live in a nation where the leaders of this country congregate in a place called Washington D.C. (District of Columbia) where ancient idols of Roman Gods could be found all over the place.
Latin translation of Columbia meaning:
(District of The Bird of Venus)
The symbols of the nation are a big green statue of a Harlot known as Diana with a torch a book of arrows, and a seven pointed Diadem on its head noting the seven hills. The capitol building has a statue of Athena, which is most likely a form of Diana readied for battle.
Also an eagle that in many national depictions looks more like a phoenix.
The eye of Nimrod is on the back of are dollar bills, which is only the symbols of the three idols of Babylon put together, Nimrod before, Semerimis the crescent moon, and Nimrod reborn symbolizing the sun after.
Yea… I know what you are talking about. The senate of Rome wore white togas with the red stripes to indicate their seniority and status. Stars also over blue representing Roman power base over the waters of the people. Which are flag speaks plainly about, this being something many Christians solute to.
The Union of the nation at its beginnings were taken over long ago by the Kings of the west who are spoken of in the bible as those who plot to come up against our God, and our Savior.

You have still yet to manage to complete a comprehendible or logical reason as to why homosexuals should be denied equal rights to heterosexuals which is the topic of this thread.

You keep speaking about individual rights, and you say majority rule is socialism.
Look at the Socialist Party USA web site:
http://sp-usa.org/principles.html
(Shocking Stuff!)
...birds of a feather flock together...LOL!!!

First of all you forget MY RIGHTS, and MY LIVELIHOOD!
I have the right to speak out against the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman.
Second of all the government allowing Homosexual marriage gives Homosexuals (who are people that CHOOSE that lifestyle) to be allotted government recognized (MINORITY STATUS).
Its like giving kleptomaniacs (MINORITY STATUS)!
This will affect my right to (FREEDOM OF RELIGION), because the Words in the Bible speaking out against this behavior would be considered HATE SPEECH AGAINST A MINORITY. The same thing happened in Canada, and it’s a clear set up. It is an attack to shut up Christians.
This will affect my ability to raise my kids according to the Bible.
This will affect the Churches.
And it will affect the Civility and Morality of the Nation.

Anyways in a Democracy the rule is MAJORITY RULE!
In a REPUBLIC, which is what form of Government the Americas truly lives under. Is that the MAJORITY elects someone who REPRESENTS their views. Then those REPRESINITIVES go in the House and Senate and vote according to their constituents under regulation of LAW.
Which is something that they haven’t been doing for years …LOL!

As to your points, which you think that proved my previous statements wrong.
I say your gloating over something you haven’t accomplished.
Population growth… Moral collapse within… Cause and effect…
Being able to repeat your flawed arguments over, and over again still does not mean your right.
I sill say all your arguments can be summed up in, “People do it, so it should be legal”.
Which I repeat, is a stupid reason to legalize anything.

I’m sure many out there with annoying bosses at work would love to indulge in this philosophy of error. “People shoot people, so it should be legal.” …LOL!

[holo]

You can't compare same-sex marriage to shooting people, of course. You would at least have to point to some sort of victim of the "crime".

You don't have to approve of anything. You're allowed to say anything is an abomination according to your faith.

[JeffTheLearner]

The victim is the Bible, and my Freedom of Religion!

The victim is Morality, and Civility!

The victim is Standards, and Truth!

The victim is National Stability, and My Family!

The victim is my Freedom of Speach!

...and the deprived mind, has already become victim!

[holo]

The victim is the Bible, and my Freedom of Religion!Does your religion demand that people who don't follow it, are denied to marry freely?

The victim is Morality, and Civility!The "victim" is YOUR sense of morality on behalf of others, yes. Likewise, your right to eat pork victimises the morality of jews and muslims. But surely their right to abstain from it doesn't negate your right to eat it.

The victim is StandardsYes, and the standards also had to suffer when your country abolished segregation. The old standard had to go.

, and Truth!?

The victim is National Stability, and My Family!What the...? How does national stability and your family suffer from people being allowed to marry one of the same sex?

The victim is my Freedom of Speach!How so? You're allowed to say that you think it's wrong and perverted.

...and the deprived mind, has already become victim!Yes, according to our faith, a lot of things are harmful. To be atheist, for example. But that doesn't mean it should be illegal, of course.

[4EverBlessed]

Well, I don't see things in such a black and white way, so I don't agree... I believe that love is good, so a relationship based on love is also good... that includes both homosexual and heterosexual relationships :)
Love is good because love is God. Where God is not, neither can love be. Yes, two people of the same sex can love each other, but when that "love" shifts to the eros kind, then God is not present in it, so therefore can it really be love? God does not abide in our sin. We are all called to love one another, we are not called to lust after or have sex with just anyone because we "feel" it's right.

[JeffTheLearner]

You know what?
You spin doctors can say whatever repetitious false rhetoric you can.
The truth is that the facts are on my side:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55254
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54420
This Guy list a number of current attacks:
http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/fischer/070207

..and you Holo I noticed your from Norway... heres something a little close to home, even thought I hear much about Christians jailed in Norway, but I cant find any articles on it:
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/1868
..and for those who can afford to fight back:
http://www.covenantnews.com/newswire/archives/016528.html

You think that granting MINORITY STATUS to homosexuals does not affect the civil rights of others. The evidence says otherwise, and I don’t think you guys give a lick.

The legalization of Homosexuality will FIRST grant them MINORITY STATUS!
It would allow them to file law suits against Christians who they deem threatening to them, and any lawyer would take that case because the federal government recognizes them an a MINORITY!
This will also affect ANY conservative political group, especially when they could GAG most of its base in endless long dragged out court cases.
I don’t think any of you are ignorant of these facts, I just don’t think you dont care.

All the Minority Laws are already in place (which I agree with).
All the fedearal government needs to do is "recognise" homosexuals as a Minority.
And the legalization of marrage between homosexuals will do that.

Aside from that and on to Biblical issues…..

You guys keep saying “God is Love!”, “God is Love!”
…AND I DO NOT DISAGREE WITH YOU ONE BIT!!!

If my buddy was smoking crack, I would consider it an act of love to tell my buddy, “Hey bud, QUIT SMOKING CRACK!” I would see it as a greater act of love to take his crack pipe and chuck it out the window, even being a “Good Samaritan” and helping him off his addiction, or his reckless way of thinking.

But by your people’s philosophy, you would rather allow him to smoke crack not saying anything about it, as a matter of fact you would probably think your being too “judgmental” if you did …LOL! You would probably think it would help him by assisting him in unloading all his neighbors’ goods out of his house, or maybe not calling the police after he smashed the window out of your car to get your stereo.

Anyways you are right about "God is love!"
...but your points about His love are a little half cocked!

(...also why dont you return the "LOVE" of God by listening to Him some time.)

"Son of man, I have appointed you a watchman to the house of Israel; whenever you hear a word from My mouth, warn them from Me. When I say to the wicked, 'You will surely die,' and YOU DO NOT WARN HIM OR SPEAK OUT TO WARN THE WICKED FROM HIS WICKED WAY THAT HE MY LIVE, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, BUT HIS BLOOD I WILL REQUIRE AT YOUR HAND. Yet if you have warned the wicked and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered yourself." (Eze 3:17-19)



P.S. I wasn’t even going to respond to your post anymore. You guys just think your right and you don’t care about common sense, the rights of others, and current happenstance. Its pointless!
It’s like walking into a gay brothel and yelling out “QUIT HAVING SEX!” their just going to look at me and laugh. But for the sake of others, and seeing the comments of others who I know are confused on this issue.
For their sake I do it!

[holo]

Dude, what does accusations and trials against "hate speech" - regardless of the outcome - have to do with people being allowed to marry one of the same sex? If they get that right, it has no bearing on YOUR rights. You're still allowed ot have your opinions, and voice them, but there are limits, of course. Laws against hate speech are there for a reason. If you disagree with those laws, don't blame it on homosexuals.

And you can't compare same-sex marriage with crack addiciton and crime. It's just simply not the same thing by any stretch of the imagination. You're allowed to warn people against their sin, just like a muslim is.

But you may be right in that there's not much point in discussing this - you can't argue with someone who doesn't see the difference between stealing and marriage.

The problem here is that your personal morality is offended - people are threatening to behave in a way you find offensive, though it doesn't actually hurt anyone, least of all you.

[UNCHURCHED]

Mmrriage is a religious sacrement instituted by God that should be held in line with the scripture. God clearly stated that marriage is to be between 1 man and 1 woman. This maariage is a prophecy of Jesus Second comming. This marriage ministers to all thise witnessing it as to the Union of Jesus and all the believers being united and caught up in the clouds together.

Therefore, Unless one follows Gods clear cut guidlines, one cannot marry. Now if the Gay community wishes to have a civil union, thats another thing, Strictly secular, outsides the bounds of Gods law.

[MezzaMorta]

You keep speaking about individual rights, and you say majority rule is socialism.
Look at the Socialist Party USA web site:

I never said majority rule is socialism, I said the "good" of the majority being more important then rights of the individual is the tagline behind every dictator in history.

Exactly what you are supporting when you claim that allowing homosexuals to marry will be "bad for the nation", thus we should not allow it.