What does this mean?

[AmandaLynn1288]

I was reading my bible last night, and I came across this story. I don't understand it at all... I don't understand what Jesus is telling the lady, and how she showed great faith. If you have any ideas, please let me know!


Matthew 15:21-28
21 Then Jesus went out from there and departed to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 And behold, a woman of Canaan came from that region and cried out to Him, saying, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David! My daughter is severely demon-possessed.”
23 But He answered her not a word.
And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, “Send her away, for she cries out after us.”
24 But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
25 Then she came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, help me!”
26 But He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the little dogs.”
27 And she said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the little dogs eat the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.”
28 Then Jesus answered and said to her, “O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

[Artificial Intelligence]

She was a Gentile. The ministry to be open to the Gentiles had not yet come.

[whateveristrue]

Gentiles and Jews generally didn't associate with each other. Yet this woman believed that Jesus was indeed GOD, and that He had the power to heal her daughter.

[freyajem]

This was when Jesus realized that He had come to save Gentiles as well as Jews. The woman was a Gentile and He wasn't about to care for her daughter.

[Artificial Intelligence]

This was when Jesus realized that He had come to save Gentiles as well as Jews. The woman was a Gentile and He wasn't about to care for her daughter.Actually, He already knew His purpose and the extent of His ministry, but there was no Church yet to add Gentiles to. He came to the house of Israel, to be rejected and put to death, to resurrect on the third day and then build the Church consisting of Jews and Gentiles at that point. The accounts of the gospels are directed to the ministry of the Jews, that is to whom he had promised to come to (hence the remark about the crumbs and dogs). Once rejected, this opened up the ministry to be offered to the Gentiles as well as to the existing believing Jews and to those that would come later.

[freyajem]

Actually, He already knew His purpose and the extent of His ministry, but there was no Church yet to add Gentiles to. He came to the house of Israel, to be rejected and put to death, to resurrect on the third day and then build the Church consisting of Jews and Gentiles at that point. The accounts of the gospels are directed to the ministry of the Jews, that is to whom he had promised to come to (hence the remark about the crumbs and dogs). Once rejected, this opened up the ministry to be offered to the Gentiles as well as to the existing believing Jews and to those that would come later.

24 But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

These were the Jews were they not?

[Artificial Intelligence]

24 But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

These were the Jews were they not?

That is correct, He was sent to the house of Israel. After He was rejected, the gospel was then proclaimed to the Gentiles. So when He says “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the little dogs.” He is saying in effect that His ministry is not to the Gentiles [at that time]. The bread of the Children is the proclamation to Israel of his Coming and the dog is the Gentiles. But she believed in Him, how could He deny a response to such faith from even a Gentile? Though He was not there to proclaim to the Gentiles that the Messiah had come for the Jews, He still recognized the Gentiles and I’m sure looked forward to when the Church would be in such fruitful abundance from all peoples of the world. Wasn’t time yet though.

He knew this though, it was not really something He realized, He was/is a master of scripture and of written prophecy, after all He wrote it in the beginning ;) He is the author of the Law, prophecy and everything else contained there in. It all came from Him directly and men wrote it down over the eons.

[freyajem]

That is correct, He was sent to the house of Israel. After He was rejected, the gospel was then proclaimed to the Gentiles. So when He says “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the little dogs.” He is saying in effect that His ministry is not to the Gentiles [at that time]. The bread of the Children is the proclamation to Israel of his Coming and the dog is the Gentiles. But she believed in Him, how could He deny a response to such faith from even a Gentile? Though He was not there to proclaim to the Gentiles that the Messiah had come for the Jews, He still recognized the Gentiles and I’m sure looked forward to when the Church would be in such fruitful abundance from all peoples of the world. Wasn’t time yet though.

He knew this though, it was not really something He realized, He was/is a master of scripture and of written prophecy, after all He wrote it in the beginning ;) He is the author of the Law, prophecy and everything else contained there in. It all came from Him directly and men wrote it down over the eons.

So why did you tell me I was wrong"? Just a question.

[Artificial Intelligence]

So why did you tell me I was wrong"? Just a question.I didn’t disagree with it exactly, where did I say it was wrong? just the wording of it being ‘realized’ as if He had not known. It sort of suggests that his ministry started with the Gentiles at that moment, but that was yet to come and He knew it from the beginning. Though he healed her daughter, the message was not to her but to Israel alone, but she believed He could heal her and I presume she knew who He was yet while many of those that He came to didn’t. The rest I just elaborated on.

[traderdave]

I like the fact that she, being Canaanite, knew He was the Son of David. She had talked to someone to figure out what that meant, and had BELIEVED in Him. She also knew that He could heal her daughter. I also like that she was persistent with the Lord. She must have been confident that He would do something for her even though His initial comments didn't reveal that.

[freyajem]

I didn’t disagree with it exactly, where did I say it was wrong? just the wording of it being ‘realized’ as if He had not known. It sort of suggests that his ministry started with the Gentiles at that moment, but that was yet to come and He knew it from the beginning. Though he healed her daughter, the message was not to her but to Israel alone, but she believed He could heal her and I presume she knew who He was yet while many of those that He came to didn’t. The rest I just elaborated on.

Jesus was fully human and as such would not necessarily know exactly everything that was to happen until it did. My comment was correct.

[AmandaLynn1288]

Thanks you guys!! That makes so much more sense now! Ya'll are awesome!! God bless!! :)

[MaidforHim]

Jesus knew he had also come to save the gentiles, He's the Son of God and knows all things, but the time to reach out to them had not yet come.

Still you'll see gentiles coming to Him, with faith stronger than some of those that traveled with Him.

In my eyes this is one of the main points. Even though she did not know prophecy, or scripture she had a strong faith and many of those that did know prophecy and scripture were lacking that faith.

It was her blind faith that was so impressive and I think Jesus was using this as an example for His those with Him to see.

[mont974x4]

I beleive Christ, even in His humanity, knew all things because He is God and has always been God. However, He was still subject to plans of the Father.

Does my finite mind fully grasp how all that is possible? Nope, but I know God is soveriegn always and forever never changing holy, just, righteous and some things are to remain a mystery for now as they are not essential for me to fully grasp at this time. I beleive this to be an issue of faith.


Faith, which this woman showed despite not being a Jew and Christ showed grace and mercy to her just as He shows it to us...even tho we do not deserve it.


Praise Him and thank Him that He justifies us.


Thank God He is faithful to give us what He knows we need and not what we think we need.

[freyajem]

I beleive Christ, even in His humanity, knew all things because He is God and has always been God. However, He was still subject to plans of the Father.

Does my finite mind fully grasp how all that is possible? Nope, but I know God is soveriegn always and forever never changing holy, just, righteous and some things are to remain a mystery for now as they are not essential for me to fully grasp at this time. I beleive this to be an issue of faith.

I believe that Christ was fully man and fully God. I believe He was born a baby with the knowledge of a baby, as a fully man. Somewhere in the bible I remember reading that Mary had to encourage Him to do what He was born to do.

If He was fully man, then He could not know everything. If He knew everything, then He was not fully man. But I am positive that He was fully open to the fully God working in Him. He lived for 33 years before beginning(beginning)to fulfill His being fully God.

Sometimes, I think we are a little too quick to make Jesus fully knowing and acting God at birth. That would deny a child born fully human.


Faith, which this woman showed despite not being a Jew and Christ showed grace and mercy to her just as He shows it to us...even tho we do not deserve it.


Praise Him and thank Him that He justifies us.


Thank God He is faithful to give us what He knows we need and not what we think we need.

sorry but I couldn't move my reply

[mont974x4]

IMO, we need to accept that He was both fully God and fully man. To seperate them would weaken His divinity.

[freyajem]

IMO, we need to accept that He was both fully God and fully man. To seperate them would weaken His divinity.

I wasn't separating them at all. He was fully man and fully God. But He had to be born fully man in order to fulfill the prophecy of being fully man. Being fully God could be within Him without His fully human ability knowledge. He would have had a fully human childhool with all the things we have as a child.

It is you who do not understand fully man and fully God. You want to make it a mystery and it is not so.

[Artificial Intelligence]

Jesus was fully human and as such would not necessarily know exactly everything that was to happen until it did. My comment was correct.Sure He was fully human, that was His tent, but He is fully God as well. Even when He was a little child He knew all things of the scriptures, He was missing from his parents for three days while He dazzled the rabbi’s in the temple with His vast knowledge. So yes then, I guess we disagree on the point of realization, I see Him as retaining such knowledge upon His incarnation and fully knowing this throughout His life and into His ministry.


Edit in since another post went up:


It is you who do not understand fully man and fully God. You want to make it a mystery and it is not so.

*needs to think/type/post faster* heh
I tend to agree with mont on this as you see.

[mont974x4]

Faith Warrior, exactly.:thumbsup:


EDIT: I suspect we're all not as far off from eachothers understanding as it appears. LOL Probably just a matter of expressing it better.

[MaidforHim]

I wasn't separating them at all. He was fully man and fully God. But He had to be born fully man in order to fulfill the prophecy of being fully man. Being fully God could be within Him without His fully human ability knowledge. He would have had a fully human childhool with all the things we have as a child.

It is you who do not understand fully man and fully God. You want to make it a mystery and it is not so.

I've never heard a verse that suggested that Jesus' divine abilities were limited due to His flesh.

He was fully human and fully God all at the same time. His ways are not our ways and it's OK if that seems impossible to us.

He got hungry and tired like a man and yet could walk on water or calm a storm with a word.

He new Zacchaeus' name before met him. In John 1 He saw Nathaniel under the fig tree before they ever met and Nathaniel was amazed. He knew the woman at the well's sorted past and that she'd be at the well.

Jesus Christ had foreknowledge and was constantly telling his disciples what was "going to happen".

I have never seen any scripture that suggest Jesus did not know He was also going to save the gentiles.

[freyajem]

I've never heard a verse that suggested that Jesus' divine abilities were limited due to His flesh.

He was fully human and fully God all at the same time. His ways are not our ways and it's OK if that seems impossible to us.

He got hungry and tired like a man and yet could walk on water or calm a storm with a word.

He new Zacchaeus' name before met him. In John 1 He saw Nathaniel under the fig tree before they ever met and Nathaniel was amazed. He knew the woman at the well's sorted past and that she'd be at the well.

Jesus Christ had foreknowledge and was constantly telling his disciples what was "going to happen".

I have never seen any scripture that suggest Jesus did not know He was also going to save the gentiles.

If Jesus was fully God upon the cross then the pain meant nothing because fully God is spirit.

Jesus was/is fully many on earth, God is fully God in Heaven. Jesus, fully man, asked His father to take away from His this horrid happening if He could. All God together, but man on earth, God in Heaven , all God , all together, each doing what needed to be done.

I believe Jesus is fully God, fully man but certainly not the way you do.....fully God would feel no pain on the cross. God the man, fully man, was on the cross. And Jesus was born a fully male human baby and lived a fully male human life or it is all for naught.

[mont974x4]

Frey, I see what your saying, I disagree with you but that's ok, you're still my sister in Him...because He did the work on the cross. :amen:

[freyajem]

Frey, I see what your saying, I disagree with you but that's ok, you're still my sister in Him...because He did the work on the cross. :amen:

Hey Mont

Someday I may find some material to back me up. For now, all I can say is that if Jesus was fully God, with all the abilities and absolutely no limitations of God, then life was a piece of cake for God on earth and the passion would be a piece of cake too for someone with no limitations. I still think Jesus was/is fully man and fully God, just not the way you do. I'm working on it.:wave:

[MaidforHim]

If Jesus was fully God upon the cross then the pain meant nothing because fully God is spirit.

Jesus was/is fully many on earth, God is fully God in Heaven. Jesus, fully man, asked His father to take away from His this horrid happening if He could. All God together, but man on earth, God in Heaven , all God , all together, each doing what needed to be done.

I believe Jesus is fully God, fully man but certainly not the way you do.....fully God would feel no pain on the cross. God the man, fully man, was on the cross. And Jesus was born a fully male human baby and lived a fully male human life or it is all for naught.

I think your separating the two flesh from spirit when they were one. Yes, He was fully God in Spirit, but ALSO fully man at the same time. It was the flesh that felt the physical pain and no doubt the heart of God that felt the heart ache and sadness.

Why should we assume that because God is spirit He feels no pain? The Bible says He grieves, that is a form of pain. None of us know just how vast God is, but I know it is far greater than we can begin to understand.

Jesus was God in the Flesh, both, at the same time according to His word.

Why should we assume that God was not able to be in the Flesh - Jesus and in heaven at the same time? He is all powerful.

I don't understand how God can be Himself, Jesus and the Holy Spirit at the same time they are all one, but the word says that is how it is. No doubt there is far far more to God and is abilities than we have the capacity to understand.

Consider for a moment a Christophany. Jesus, in the flesh appearing on earth before His birth in the old testament and after His birth, death and resurrection. He was flesh, ate with them, touched them, walked and talked with them, and yet appeared and disappeared in an instant and accended.

I think we could chase thise topic around in circles for days, but I think the Bible makes it clear that Jesus knew exactly why He was here, who He was here to save and that He had a knowledge of things past present and future.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. :)

[mont974x4]

I know He suffered the same temptations etc because we DO have a High Priest who can sympathise with us.

(both passages from YLT)

Heb 2:1 Because of this it behoveth us more abundantly to take heed to the things heard, lest we may glide aside,
Heb 2:2 for if the word being spoken through messengers did become stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience did receive a just recompense,
Heb 2:3 how shall we escape, having neglected so great salvation? which a beginning receiving--to be spoken through the Lord--by those having heard was confirmed to us,
Heb 2:4 God also bearing joint-witness both with signs and wonders, and manifold powers, and distributions of the Holy Spirit, according to His will.
Heb 2:5 For not to messengers did He subject the coming world, concerning which we speak,
Heb 2:6 and one in a certain place did testify fully, saying, `What is man, that Thou art mindful of him, or a son of man, that Thou dost look after him?
Heb 2:7 Thou didst make him some little less than messengers, with glory and honour Thou didst crown him, and didst set him over the works of Thy hands,
Heb 2:8 all things Thou didst put in subjection under his feet,' for in the subjecting to him the all things, nothing did He leave to him unsubjected, and now not yet do we see the all things subjected to him,
Heb 2:9 and him who was made some little less than messengers we see--Jesus--because of the suffering of the death, with glory and honour having been crowned, that by the grace of God for every one he might taste of death.
Heb 2:10 For it was becoming to Him, because of whom are the all things, and through whom are the all things, many sons to glory bringing, the author of their salvation through sufferings to make perfect,
Heb 2:11 for both he who is sanctifying and those sanctified are all of one, for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
Heb 2:12 saying, `I will declare Thy name to my brethren, in the midst of an assembly I will sing praise to Thee;' and again, `I will be trusting on Him;'
Heb 2:13 and again, `Behold I and the children that God did give to me.'
Heb 2:14 Seeing, then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, he himself also in like manner did take part of the same, that through death he might destroy him having the power of death--that is, the devil--
Heb 2:15 and might deliver those, whoever, with fear of death, throughout all their life, were subjects of bondage,
Heb 2:16 for, doubtless, of messengers it doth not lay hold, but of seed of Abraham it layeth hold,
Heb 2:17 wherefore it did behove him in all things to be made like to the brethren, that he might become a kind and stedfast chief-priest in the things with God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people,
Heb 2:18 for in that he suffered, himself being tempted, he is able to help those who are tempted.

This doesn't mean He didn't have the knowledge. I think the statements of Christ suggest that He did have the knowledge but submitted to the will of the Father and suffered the shame of the cross

Heb 12:1 Therefore, we also having so great a cloud of witnesses set around us, every weight having put off, and the closely besetting sin, through endurance may we run the contest that is set before us,
Heb 12:2 looking to the author and perfecter of faith--Jesus, who, over-against the joy set before him--did endure a cross, shame having despised, on the right hand also of the throne of God did sit down;
Heb 12:3 for consider again him who endured such gainsaying from the sinners to himself, that ye may not be wearied in your souls--being faint.



:hug: Blessings, my sister, and thanks for a good thought provoking discussion about His precious and Holy Word and our glorious Lord. :thumbsup: Good stuff.

[mont974x4]

I think your separating the two flesh from spirit when they were one. Yes, He was fully God in Spirit, but ALSO fully man at the same time. It was the flesh that felt the physical pain and no doubt the heart of God that felt the heart ache and sadness.

Why should we assume that because God is spirit He feels no pain? The Bible says He grieves, that is a form of pain. None of us know just how vast God is, but I know it is far greater than we can begin to understand.

Jesus was God in the Flesh, both, at the same time according to His word.

Why should we assume that God was not able to be in the Flesh - Jesus and in heaven at the same time? He is all powerful.

I don't understand how God can be Himself, Jesus and the Holy Spirit at the same time, but the word says he is. Now doubt there is far far more to God and is abilities than we have the capacity to understand.

Consider for a moment a Christophany. Jesus, in the flesh appearing on earth before His birth in the old testament and afte His death and resurrection. He was flesh, ate with them, touched them, walked and talked with them, and yet appeared and disappeared in an instant and accended.

I think we could chase thise topic around in circles for days, but I think the Bible makes it clear that Jesus knew exactly why He was here, who He was here to save and that He had a knowledge of things past present and future.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. :)
That gives me an idea that goes along with our sympathetic High Priest ideal....We too suffer in the flesh but when we submit and humble ourselves and move in the Spirit things work out for the better.

That's not the intended picture and I may have worded that poorly but I think ya'll get the idea and i find it rather encouraging.

[freyajem]

I know He suffered the same temptations etc because we DO have a High Priest who can sympathise with us.

(both passages from YLT)

Heb 2:1 Because of this it behoveth us more abundantly to take heed to the things heard, lest we may glide aside,
Heb 2:2 for if the word being spoken through messengers did become stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience did receive a just recompense,
Heb 2:3 how shall we escape, having neglected so great salvation? which a beginning receiving--to be spoken through the Lord--by those having heard was confirmed to us,
Heb 2:4 God also bearing joint-witness both with signs and wonders, and manifold powers, and distributions of the Holy Spirit, according to His will.
Heb 2:5 For not to messengers did He subject the coming world, concerning which we speak,
Heb 2:6 and one in a certain place did testify fully, saying, `What is man, that Thou art mindful of him, or a son of man, that Thou dost look after him?
Heb 2:7 Thou didst make him some little less than messengers, with glory and honour Thou didst crown him, and didst set him over the works of Thy hands,
Heb 2:8 all things Thou didst put in subjection under his feet,' for in the subjecting to him the all things, nothing did He leave to him unsubjected, and now not yet do we see the all things subjected to him,
Heb 2:9 and him who was made some little less than messengers we see--Jesus--because of the suffering of the death, with glory and honour having been crowned, that by the grace of God for every one he might taste of death.
Heb 2:10 For it was becoming to Him, because of whom are the all things, and through whom are the all things, many sons to glory bringing, the author of their salvation through sufferings to make perfect,
Heb 2:11 for both he who is sanctifying and those sanctified are all of one, for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
Heb 2:12 saying, `I will declare Thy name to my brethren, in the midst of an assembly I will sing praise to Thee;' and again, `I will be trusting on Him;'
Heb 2:13 and again, `Behold I and the children that God did give to me.'
Heb 2:14 Seeing, then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, he himself also in like manner did take part of the same, that through death he might destroy him having the power of death--that is, the devil--
Heb 2:15 and might deliver those, whoever, with fear of death, throughout all their life, were subjects of bondage,
Heb 2:16 for, doubtless, of messengers it doth not lay hold, but of seed of Abraham it layeth hold,
Heb 2:17 wherefore it did behove him in all things to be made like to the brethren, that he might become a kind and stedfast chief-priest in the things with God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people,
Heb 2:18 for in that he suffered, himself being tempted, he is able to help those who are tempted.

This doesn't mean He didn't have the knowledge. I think the statements of Christ suggest that He did have the knowledge but submitted to the will of the Father and suffered the shame of the cross

Heb 12:1 Therefore, we also having so great a cloud of witnesses set around us, every weight having put off, and the closely besetting sin, through endurance may we run the contest that is set before us,
Heb 12:2 looking to the author and perfecter of faith--Jesus, who, over-against the joy set before him--did endure a cross, shame having despised, on the right hand also of the throne of God did sit down;
Heb 12:3 for consider again him who endured such gainsaying from the sinners to himself, that ye may not be wearied in your souls--being faint.



:hug: Blessings, my sister, and thanks for a good thought provoking discussion about His precious and Holy Word and our glorious Lord. :thumbsup: Good stuff.

You know, being as every tiny thing not of God is of great sin, and God can be nailed to the cross and feel blood and the pain of flesh blood injury, I think I will just leave your Christian world. You are all too saintly for me. I am just a human being trying to survive, trying to get from day to day, let alone a cigarette is sin and a woman today must obey her master husband and to boot she must be silent. You people turn love of God into something that I do not recognize,.

[mont974x4]

No need to run off. No one has claimed perfection on our part...only He has that rightful claim.


BTW, I smoke and have tattoos. :D Please don't stone me.

I also eat pork and drink coffee and, dare I say it..I enjoy marital sex. :help:




:doh: <---I do that more than a couple times a day since I am still a work in progress, but our Father promised to finish the work in all of us.

[freyajem]

No need to run off. No one has claimed perfection on our part...only He has that rightful claim.


BTW, I smoke and have tattoos. :D Please don't stone me.

I also eat pork and drink coffee and, dare I say it..I enjoy marital sex. :help:




:doh: <---I do that more than a couple times a day since I am still a work in progress, but our Father promised to finish the work in all of us.

LOL....enjoying marital sex is good, it is the extramarital stuff that is murder^_^

I will stay around, visit, but I don't think I will post much anymore. I am just a down to earth, problem infested human being, full of sin and God loves me anyway.....I feel His presence, His love, knowing that I am trying so hard to be all he created me for and failing. This place makes me cry,that everything is sin- even breathing must be sinful for some reason like there is dirt in the air and I am corrupting Gods house.

gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!

[mont974x4]

Heck, I just came back after a 4 month break. lol

[Floatingaxe]

Heck, I just came back after a 4 month break. lol


Do you feel welcome? ^_^ ^_^ ^_^

[AmandaLynn1288]

Freyajem... don't leave!! We need you! I am a very simple Christian myself, still in the process of learning. I need people like you to help me understand and to help me to take the things that I am learning about God and us them in my everyday life!! I know how you feel... I get really intimidated by some people of this site, but I just try to learn what I can from them and then let it go. I really hope you stay!!

[Artificial Intelligence]

Someday I may find some material to back me up. Actually He did retain all His power and full Godhood. Jesus only did what the Father instructed; limitations were set, but it was Jesus that had the power to resurrect. The Father resurrected Jesus, the Holy Spirit Resurrected Jesus and the Son resurrected Jesus. Romans 8:11, Romans 6:4, John 2:19. If He had no power, how could He resurrect Himself? Not only that but resurrect Lazarus as well? Only God has power over life and death, and Jesus was not only fully God but He retained all His Godhead powers upon His incarnation into 100% man. He was not 50% or 0% God but 100% God and He was also 100% man or the sacrifice would be worthless. He lost no attributes, he did not become not God to inhabit the tent of a man then return to being God once again.

So no, you wont find what you are saying in the bible, it is contrary to what the bible teaches about God the Son. Today He is still 100% man and 100% God, he bares the marks of the cross to this day and shall into eternity. The resurrected body is His to dwell in for all eternity, He will never shed that nor shall we ever shed our bodies. The same body any born again Christian has today, they will have forever, but refurbished as what the resurrection to eternal life does, the same resurrection that Jesus raised Himself with into eternal life; with the same body He incarnated into over 2000 years ago now.

I’m not sure how tobacco fits into this discussion, how do you dismiss this because someone thinks (and not supported by the bible) that tobacco is some sort of sin? So because some claim tobacco is sin, one of the essential cornerstones of the Christian faith is easily dismissed? It is one of the point’s of the Nicene creed, I agree with this creed, it in effect divides the saved from the unsaved. I presented this creed to a Mormon a few months ago, he rejected it after I explained it to him (he claimed at first that he did but they all “claim“ things they don‘t really believe), this is because Mormons are not saved and won’t inherit the Kingdom of God; they are still in their sins. The litany test is the bible, if you cant support a view from it, especially something dealing with essential doctrine, it’s time to reevaluate such a position with what the bible really says, anything else is folly.

Sorry to hear you have taken offense to some Christians here at CF, I hope you spend time with your Church Pastor going over these essential doctrines of Christianity.

[whateveristrue]

Being 'fully God' would mean He would have the ability to make himself 'fully human'. So there you go... He is 'fully GOD'.

[freyajem]

Heck, I just came back after a 4 month break. lol

Mont, you are a solid rock for God. You make me feel like I am worth something.:hug:

[lily101]

The woman from Canaan didn't grow up with 'Serving the living God' as religion. She was a gentile, a non-jew.

She had only heard of the wonders Jesus had performed and she still believed He could save her daughter.
Jesus wanted to know how deep does this non-believers faith run. We see her faith in the answer she gave...even the little dogs eat the crumbs wich fall from the masters table:
She knew she wasn't traditionaly a follower of God but she had faith. She believed that God even shows mercy to the lowest of his creation a dog at His table.
At this stage she identified with the dog, she didn't expect Jesus to treat her like one of His sheep. But she still believed. She had faith that He will even help her a gentile (a dog).

All the odds was against her.
# She wasn't a Jew (not part of god's chosen people)
# She was a woman
# Woman wasn't allowed to speek to men in public
# Jews didn't associate with gentiles
# Woman where seen as 2nd-rate people

BUT JESUS HAD SEEN HER FAITH!
She did't look at the odds against her she just Believed!!!

[mont974x4]

LOL Welcome? I don't know if we should feel "welcome" anywhere being that we're aliens just passin through until called home.

A rock? Thanks! I am fully convinced that those who have been forgiven much have much expected of them...and man, did God forgive MUCH in my case. He is my strength and my Rock and in my weakness HIs strength is shown.

[MaidforHim]

LOL Welcome? I don't know if we should feel "welcome" anywhere being that we're aliens just passin through until called home.

A rock? Thanks! I am fully convinced that those who have been forgiven much have much expected of them...and man, did God forgive MUCH in my case. He is my strength and my Rock and in my weakness HIs strength is shown.

:hug: Welcome back Mont!!! :hug:

There, now I don't know about you, but I feel better! ^_^

I've taken a few breif breaks myself. Glad your back!

[mont974x4]

:hug: Thanks!

[MaidforHim]

You know, being as every tiny thing not of God is of great sin, and God can be nailed to the cross and feel blood and the pain of flesh blood injury, I think I will just leave your Christian world. You are all too saintly for me. I am just a human being trying to survive, trying to get from day to day, let alone a cigarette is sin and a woman today must obey her master husband and to boot she must be silent. You people turn love of God into something that I do not recognize,.

I hope you dont' go freyajem!

I'm not sure why you'd think any of us "saintly" ? I know I sure don't fit into that catagory. None are without sin or struggles and we all face temptation.

Uhm... and being silent is not a skill I posess. :o Sorry.

Submitting to my husband I do, but then he loves me like Christ loves the church which was addressed in one of the next verses in that chapter. So submitting is not only easy, it's a pleasure because he loves he so much he treats me like a princess. (I find it very easy to submit to being spoiled - I confess!!!^_^ )

We all fall short and I don't know why you'd think anyone here thinks otherwise, but I'm pretty sure you and everyone here have a lot more in common than you're guessing ;)

I think it's OK when we disagree here on CF, even if we never see eye to eye on something because at the very least it should get us into the word! You know what I mean?

When I look at scripture through someone elses eyes sometimes I think... Really? looked it up and find out wow that's true, what a blessing! I've then learned something new and been blessed by it!!!

And other times I've thought hmmm... I don't think so and gone off to study it further and been able to share scripture that might help someone else.

We all need to base our beliefs on scripture, not just on feelings or emotions because those human attributes can decieve us. Being able to debate things here in the forum has often helped me solidify some of my beliefs because sometimes I will know one scripture that addresses a particular subject, but someone else will share 3 more that address the same thing and I hadn't realized it or had forgotten them. That's a huge blessing in my eyes.

So really not seeing something eye to eye with someone can be very helpful in some ways, unless it gets disrespectful and yes there are those here who can be disrespectufl or rude, but there are far more nice people I think.

So from one flawed flesh and bone person to another I hope you don't leave just because we don't agree on something. We all love the Lord and that's a great thing to have in common.:thumbsup:

:hug:

[freyajem]

I probably won't go Maid

From what I can remember, I follow the bible not just from feelings. Sometimes words in the bible don't make sense to me and I don't follow blindly. For you to obey your husband is a joy, is good. For me, married 36 year was no joy, no good. I would only obey a man such as yours. You are fortunate. Many women are not so fortunate.

In my experience, anyone who advocates being a certain way, with great thrust, great energy, great force....asserting that everyone should be that way......that person should be that way. You are telling me that people are saying these things,forcefully, with great gusto, expecting people to not commit such sins, sins that they are committing. That doesn't seem right to me. Like I quit smoking 3 years ago and I wouldn't dream of telling anyone that it is a sin. I did it for close to 40 years, having started at age 17 without a thought of the harm to my body alone.

For me, a sin is something you plan, you think about it, plan it, know it's wrong, a sin, do it regardless of God, and afterwards you are glad you did it, have no remorse, do not repent or tell God you are sorry and you keep on doing it. That, to me, is sin.....willful sin. And to my knowledge, I have never done that in my life. To be sure, I have gone against God but not that way and I have always repented, been sorry.

That is why I respond the way I do. I guess because sin for me is something different than sin for most of you here.

Anyway, thank you for your kind response and I will stay and see if I can share.

[mont974x4]

We don't have a choice. I am to love my wife even if she doesn't respect me and she is to respect me even if I don't love her.

However, when my wife was respecting me despite the way I was it made me want to love her and learn more about how to love her the way I am supposed to.


As to sin, I beleive their is a diference between a slip up and living a sinful lifestyle. Thankfully, we have a High Priest that allows us to come to the throne in godly sorrow and true repentance...whether it is an intentional sin or not.

I am reminded of this from watching my sons. No one taught my 3 year old how to lie he just started doing it. Before I explained the facts of the matter to him he didn't understand what a lie is but you could tell by the look on his face that he knew he was wrong. We are born sinners and in need of His saving grace....even when we don't realize it.

That is all part of the "Good News"...despite our being born into sin, and my continued imperfection, He loves us and He came to forgive us and to save us and to grow us into the men and women He intends us to be.

[MelissaShae]

For me, a sin is something you plan, you think about it, plan it, know it's wrong, a sin, do it regardless of God, and afterwards you are glad you did it, have no remorse, do not repent or tell God you are sorry and you keep on doing it. That, to me, is sin.....willful sin. And to my knowledge, I have never done that in my life. To be sure, I have gone against God but not that way and I have always repented, been sorry.

I agree with you :thumbsup:

We all sin, nobody is free from sinning here on Earth. Jesus was the only one without sin. I do find that many people are quick to point out other people's sins instead of looking at their own. I am a smoker as well and while some may think it is a sin, I see it as a struggle. Life is a struggle. We are only here visiting until we are called home by Jesus.

:hug:

[freyajem]

We don't have a choice. I am to love my wife even if she doesn't respect me and she is to respect me even if I don't love her.

.

That is definitely a weird statement. We always have choices.

[mont974x4]

Well, we do have choice..obey or not obey. However, since we love Him we want to obey Him..which is why I said we don't have a choice. This doesn't mean we don't fail or we don't have to constantly choose whether or to walk in the flesh or walk in the Spirit.


Romans chapters 6-8 come to mind.

[freyajem]

Well, we do have choice..obey or not obey. However, since we love Him we want to obey Him..which is why I said we don't have a choice. This doesn't mean we don't fail or we don't have to constantly choose whether or to walk in the flesh or walk in the Spirit.


Romans chapters 6-8 come to mind.

Mont

Tell that to a woman who is being abused by her husband. Does she have no choice but to stay in that relationship?

You are talking from a good relationship and there are not too many of them.

[Honibee]

Responding to OP~
The woman's faith accepted Jesus' coming first for the Jews, but also knew she was blessed from the 'overflow'.

[mont974x4]

frey, keeping in mind no marriage is perfect because they are made of imperfect people these commands are not conditional. I am not told to love my wife IF she respects or reveres me..and she is not told to respect me IF I love her the way I am supposed to.


Eph 5:22 The wives! to your own husbands subject yourselves, as to the Lord,
Eph 5:23 because the husband is head of the wife, as also the Christ is head of the assembly, and he is saviour of the body,
Eph 5:24 but even as the assembly is subject to Christ, so also are the wives to their own husbands in everything.
Eph 5:25 The husbands! love your own wives, as also the Christ did love the assembly, and did give himself for it,
Eph 5:26 that he might sanctify it, having cleansed it with the bathing of the water in the saying,
Eph 5:27 that he might present it to himself the assembly in glory, not having spot or wrinkle, or any of such things, but that it may be holy and unblemished;
Eph 5:28 so ought the husbands to love their own wives as their own bodies: he who is loving his own wife--himself he doth love;
Eph 5:29 for no one ever his own flesh did hate, but doth nourish and cherish it, as also the Lord--the assembly,
Eph 5:30 because members we are of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones;
Eph 5:31 `for this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined to his wife, and they shall be--the two--for one flesh;'
Eph 5:32 this secret is great, and I speak in regard to Christ and to the assembly;
Eph 5:33 but ye also, every one in particular--let each his own wife so love as himself, and the wife--that she may reverence the husband.


I have not found abuse directly commented on in the Bible, however, many people view the passage below concerning the abandonment to be applicable to the abuse situation because it abuse speaks of emotional abandonment. I don't know many people who would demand a woman stay with an abusive husband but we are never commanded to divorce..only that it is allowed in two cases....

1. sexual immorality
2. the unbelieving spouse leave a believing spouse


1 Cor 7

[bluemarkus]

she showed great faith because she did not care about public opinion. her need was so great, and she was so shure that jesus could indeed heal her daughter, that she acted like a fool... and was rewarded.

[Floatingaxe]

That is definitely a weird statement. We always have choices.


Yeah!

If my husband was not worthy of respect, I couldn't respect him! God is not calling us to that. He would be in need of correction, and I would see to it that he got it. THEN respect could be restored. Out of LOVE for him I would do this.

[mont974x4]

OK, ladies, does that mean I can withhold my love until my bride respects me?

Sorry, it doesn't work that way according to Scripture.

Interesting husbands are told to love their wives and wives are told to respect husbands...without conditions.

[freyajem]

Yeah!

If my husband was not worthy of respect, I couldn't respect him! God is not calling us to that. He would be in need of correction, and I would see to it that he got it. THEN respect could be restored. Out of LOVE for him I would do this.

I don't understand this statment. Out of LOVE for him you would do what?

[freyajem]

OK, ladies, does that mean I can withhold my love until my bride respects me?

Sorry, it doesn't work that way according to Scripture.

Interesting husbands are told to love their wives and wives are told to respect husbands...without conditions.

Are you saying that two people who are hurting each other have to stay in a hurtful, abusive marriage. Keeping in mind that what I am talking about here is that there is no love and no love can be found or made no matter how much one loves God. Loving God does not a marriage make. Two human beings in love does a marriage make.

Loving God does not make another person have to love you and be good to you. Nor does loving God help you to be happy with your partner beating on you.

[Floatingaxe]

OK, ladies, does that mean I can withhold my love until my bride respects me?

Sorry, it doesn't work that way according to Scripture.

Interesting husbands are told to love their wives and wives are told to respect husbands...without conditions.

Not really. The instruction was to BELIEVING MARRIAGES. In a Christian marriage, the man must love the wife. First. Then the right response for wives is to respect and give honour. Easy Peasy.

[mont974x4]

I am saying that my wife not respecting me does not excuse me from God's command to love her the way I am supposed to and my lack of love for her does not excuse her from respecting me.

The Bible tells us to do those things regardless of how the other person acts. We obey Him because we love Him if we actively choose to disobey Him what does that say about our love for Him?

Does that mean a woman has to stay in the house with an abusive man? I don't think so but we must be very careful how we act in such situations.

IMO, the Bible is clear on what is expected of us and I have provided such verses in earlier posts. Thankfully He gives us what we need to accomplish it because left to our own devices a husband will never love the way he is supposed to and a wife will never respect the way she is supposed to.

[mont974x4]

I disagree. I think the passage clearly says the wife is to see to it she repsects her husband..I can not force her to any more than she can force me to love her. These commands are NOT conditional.

A beleiver married to an unbeleiver is still supposed to obey the Word. It is up to the unbeleiver to leave or not.

[andross77]

I probably won't go Maid

From what I can remember, I follow the bible not just from feelings. Sometimes words in the bible don't make sense to me and I don't follow blindly. For you to obey your husband is a joy, is good. For me, married 36 year was no joy, no good. I would only obey a man such as yours. You are fortunate. Many women are not so fortunate.

In my experience, anyone who advocates being a certain way, with great thrust, great energy, great force....asserting that everyone should be that way......that person should be that way. You are telling me that people are saying these things,forcefully, with great gusto, expecting people to not commit such sins, sins that they are committing. That doesn't seem right to me. Like I quit smoking 3 years ago and I wouldn't dream of telling anyone that it is a sin. I did it for close to 40 years, having started at age 17 without a thought of the harm to my body alone.

For me, a sin is something you plan, you think about it, plan it, know it's wrong, a sin, do it regardless of God, and afterwards you are glad you did it, have no remorse, do not repent or tell God you are sorry and you keep on doing it. That, to me, is sin.....willful sin. And to my knowledge, I have never done that in my life. To be sure, I have gone against God but not that way and I have always repented, been sorry.

That is why I respond the way I do. I guess because sin for me is something different than sin for most of you here.

Anyway, thank you for your kind response and I will stay and see if I can share.

Interesting back and forth conversation here. I would not have interjected into it if it weren't for this post. Frey, your idea of sin is wrong and unbiblical. Romans 3:23 tells us, "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". Not just some. Not just people that willfully and pre-plan evil things are sinners. All of us. You. Me. The President. The Pope. The VT shooter. Everyone.

There are different kinds of sin (omission or commission, etc), different temporary consequences of sin (none, lose money, shame, death, etc), but in some way, we all sin.

Your statements are partially right though. It's those people that do not recognize themselves as sinners, that live a sinful lifestyle, find pleasure in it and never repent of it, that will be a goat on Judgement day, condemned to eternity in hell.

Not sure why you are caught up on smoking. Smoking is never said to be a sin in Scripture. BUT since Scripture tells us that our "body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within us...You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body" (1 Cor. 6:19-20) we understand that sucking in 43 known cancer-causing compounds (carcinogenics) just to have a "feeling" or "look cool" or "relieve stress" or "occupy our time" or "relax" or "for enjoyment" is sinful b/c it goes against Scripture.

But so is overeating (gluttony). This i do all the time and it's a wonder i'm not 300 lbs yet. BUT "Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!" (Rom. 7:25). He (Jesus) HAS lived the perfect life, DID die on the Cross, WAS Resurrected on the 3rd day and our sins ARE washed away! That is the Good News! That is the focus of the Gospel message.

But even though "we are saved by grace through faith and not by works so that no man may boast" (Eph. 2:8-9) we must not neglect to call out sin for what it is. Or think we are not sinners. "If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." (1 John 1:10)

When we are born, we are sinful. While we live, we are sinful. When we die, we die sinners. There is only one solution to our problem: Jesus who is the Christ. :amen: :amen:
</IMG></IMG>

[freyajem]

Interesting back and forth conversation here. I would not have interjected into it if it weren't for this post. Frey, your idea of sin is wrong and unbiblical. Romans 3:23 tells us, "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". Not just some. Not just people that willfully and pre-plan evil things are sinners. All of us. You. Me. The President. The Pope. The VT shooter. Everyone.

Thank you for that bit of information that I am wrong. I trust that you would be as forgiving if I said you were wrong. But I don't go around telling people that they are wrong anyway.

I am right. You can be whatever you want.

[Floatingaxe]

Thank you for that bit of information that I am wrong. I trust that you would be as forgiving if I said you were wrong. But I don't go around telling people that they are wrong anyway.

I am right. You can be whatever you want.


Actually, willful sin without remorse will separate you from God as equally as unpremeditated sin that you have not repented of because you had no idea it was sinful. To say you have never done this in your whole life must be an untruth, for what is it you were saved from? Before Christ we all sin--repeatedly--until we come to Christ with Godly sorrow and repent.


All thoughts and deed that go against God and His Word constitute sin. Categorizing it is wrong.

[freyajem]

When we are born, we are sinful. While we live, we are sinful. When we die, we die sinners. There is only one solution to our problem: Jesus who is the Christ. :amen: :amen:
</IMG></IMG>

Imagine.....a little baby commits a sin by being born.

Quoting scripture to prove people are wrong and living sinful lives is about the worst sin I can think of.

I will agree that babies are born with that godawful thing call original sin but the baby has never commit a sin. So silly this stuff is.

[Floatingaxe]

Actually, willful sin without remorse will separate you from God as equally as unpremeditated sin that you have not repented of because you had no idea it was sinful. To say you have never done this in your whole life must be an untruth, for what is it you were saved from? Before Christ we all sin--repeatedly--until we come to Christ with Godly sorrow and repent.


All thoughts and deed that go against God and His Word constitute sin. Categorizing it is wrong.

Imagine.....a little baby commits a sin by being born.

Quoting scripture to prove people are wrong and living sinful lives is about the worst sin I can think of.

I will agree that babies are born with that godawful thing call original sin but the baby has never commit a sin. So silly this stuff is.


Psalm 51:5 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=23&chapter=51&verse=5&version=51&context=verse)
For I was born a sinner—yes, from the moment my mother conceived me.

Psalm 58:3 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=23&chapter=58&verse=3&version=51&context=verse)
These wicked people are born sinners;even from birth they have lied and gone their own way.


Children are born sinners. You don't have to teach a child to lie, hit or steal..they do it naturally!

[freyajem]

Actually, willful sin without remorse will separate you from God as equally as unpremeditated sin that you have not repented of because you had no idea it was sinful. To say you have never done this in your whole life must be an untruth, for what is it you were saved from? Before Christ we all sin--repeatedly--until we come to Christ with Godly sorrow and repent.


All thoughts and deed that go against God and His Word constitute sin. Categorizing it is wrong.

I did not say that I didn't sin. I said that I did not willfully knowing that something was a sin, against God, and I did it regardless and did not repent. I have never done that to my knowledge.

And as far as I am concerned, if I do not know something is a sin then I cannot do it as a sin. This God of yours is truly a beast to punish people for something that they do not even know they have done. That makes no sense to me at all. About as much sense as a baby has sinned.

[freyajem]

Oh, I have just realized that I am in non denominational. Last time I stayed here I got a beautiful long black scar on my Control Panel that will last for a full year. That is what I got for disagreeing with you guys.

So I am outa here right now.

And I suspect all the other things are non denominational as well.

So I will say goodbye cuz I suspect when someone rats on me this time, I will be banned.

[mont974x4]

Imagine.....a little baby commits a sin by being born.

Quoting scripture to prove people are wrong and living sinful lives is about the worst sin I can think of.

I will agree that babies are born with that godawful thing call original sin but the baby has never commit a sin. So silly this stuff is.

This makes me sad, Scripture gives us our standard so that we can (as we are supposed to) discern right from wrong, what is and what is not sin. We are supposed to hold eachother accountable and encourage righteous living based on what God has told us in His Word.

As I said in the thread about sex, I am not trying to spoil anyones fun or beat anyone down but rather encourage my brothers and sisters to make wise decisions to leave sin behind just as I have brothers and sisters encouraging me to do the same.

Lastly, sin is never silly and we tread dangerous ground to take it lightly or to justify for sake of not making waves.

[freyajem]

This makes me sad, Scripture gives us our standard so that we can (as we are supposed to) discern right from wrong, what is and what is not sin. We are supposed to hold eachother accountable and encourage righteous living based on what God has told us in His Word.

As I said in the thread about sex, I am not trying to spoil anyones fun or beat anyone down but rather encourage my brothers and sisters to make wise decisions to leave sin behind just as I have brothers and sisters encouraging me to do the same.

Lastly, sin is never silly and we tread dangerous ground to take it lightly or to justify for sake of not making waves.

Mont

How is one supposed to discern what is sin and what is not sin when all that is ever talked about here is sin. All I hear about is sin. What is to discern. All that is ever quoted is sin, everything is sin, even a baby is sin. There is so much sin in this Christian forum and so little good, if any, spoken of that I don't know how anybody gets through a day. I get through the day by knowing that I am good and God loves me. And that is all I have but the enormous weight of nothing but sin in here threatens to take that away from me. I am a sinner and God hates sin so He must hate me but I guess all of you are okay saints. But in here, all there is is sin and everything is sin, even refusing to be abused by a man is a sin, all is sin, nothing but sin and God hates sin so how is one to get through the day. I know you all sin the same as I do but the way you talk is like you are saints.

True, it is not silly. It is sad. It is sad that everything is sin.

[mont974x4]

No one has said that a woman has to stand there and be abused. She has to respect her husband. We all are in submission to someone and that authority comes from God. We must be careful how we handle those situations. I am reminded of Paul reminding the people that he was a Roman citizen and he had rights that they had violated. However, even then he was respectful.


I hope you are seeing more than just sin in these threads. I hope you have seen the hope from the passages that people have shared as well.

It is all part of the whole Gospel, who we are without Him, who He is and what He has done for us, and who we are in Him...all because we have Him and because of His work on the cross.

And yes, God is righteous and just and that means discipline for us..because He disciplines those He loves...and it means punishment for those who reject Him.

[freyajem]

No one has said that a woman has to stand there and be abused. She has to respect her husband. We all are in submission to someone and that authority comes from God. We must be careful how we handle those situations. I am reminded of Paul reminding the people that he was a Roman citizen and he had rights that they had violated. However, even then he was respectful.


I hope you are seeing more than just sin in these threads. I hope you have seen the hope from the passages that people have shared as well.

It is all part of the whole Gospel, who we are without Him, who He is and what He has done for us, and who we are in Him...all because we have Him and because of His work on the cross.

And yes, God is righteous and just and that means discipline for us..because He disciplines those He loves...and it means punishment for those who reject Him.

just overload

guess I am simply not as holy as you guys.

I love God more than anything, I give myself to God totally, He leads, I follow as best I can and He asks no more than that of me. I do not live in the bible where a baby is born sinning. I live in God where a baby is born innocent and learns to love or hate, sin or not.

I have seen from being here that I cannot live the way you do, always quoting what to me are the horrors of the bible....if your hand sins, cut it off...no we don't. If you eye sins, pluck it out, no we don't. An eye for an eye and a toothe for a tooth, no we don't, or at least I don't. If I were to quote the bible, I would never quote the things you people do. I have grown in love with God, not in fear of God and all the sins that you would have take me other than Heaven.

What is on our minds is what we are and if all that is on our mind is sin and all that is sin and more sin, then that is what we will be.

You thrive on constant quotes and reminders and thought of what is sin. I don't. That doesn't make you right and me wrong. That makes us different. And if I voice what is good for me here, I am told I am the unholiest of unholies and that is not true.

[Floatingaxe]

just overload

guess I am simply not as holy as you guys.

I love God more than anything, I give myself to God totally, He leads, I follow as best I can and He asks no more than that of me. I do not live in the bible where a baby is born sinning. I live in God where a baby is born innocent and learns to love or hate, sin or not.

I have seen from being here that I cannot live the way you do, always quoting what to me are the horrors of the bible....if your hand sins, cut it off...no we don't. If you eye sins, pluck it out, no we don't. An eye for an eye and a toothe for a tooth, no we don't, or at least I don't. If I were to quote the bible, I would never quote the things you people do. I have grown in love with God, not in fear of God and all the sins that you would have take me other than Heaven.

What is on our minds is what we are and if all that is on our mind is sin and all that is sin and more sin, then that is what we will be.

You thrive on constant quotes and reminders and thought of what is sin. I don't. That doesn't make you right and me wrong. That makes us different. And if I voice what is good for me here, I am told I am the unholiest of unholies and that is not true.


Calm down, freya. No one is focusing on sin, and least of all on your holiness.

[andross77]

Mont

How is one supposed to discern what is sin and what is not sin when all that is ever talked about here is sin. All I hear about is sin. What is to discern. All that is ever quoted is sin, everything is sin, even a baby is sin. There is so much sin in this Christian forum and so little good, if any, spoken of that I don't know how anybody gets through a day. I get through the day by knowing that I am good and God loves me. And that is all I have but the enormous weight of nothing but sin in here threatens to take that away from me. I am a sinner and God hates sin so He must hate me but I guess all of you are okay saints. But in here, all there is is sin and everything is sin, even refusing to be abused by a man is a sin, all is sin, nothing but sin and God hates sin so how is one to get through the day. I know you all sin the same as I do but the way you talk is like you are saints.

True, it is not silly. It is sad. It is sad that everything is sin.

Frey, i'm sorry that you are offended. That is not my goal. But when people hear what they do not WANT to hear, they can get offended. It's how things are. Should we stop saying what is truth b/c it's offensive?

I bolded your most erroneous statement. You are NOT good. That is one of the MAIN parts of the Gospel Message. Jesus came to save sinners. Do you remember the verse that says, "our hearts are desperately wicked, all the time" ? Do you remember the verse where Jesus says, "I came to save the sick, not the healthy" ?

As Christians we shouldn't just talk about sin 100% of the time. I completely agree with you there. But we must have a correct view of sin. A correct view of sin is that it is ANYTHING that goes against the Will of God. A correct view of sin is that we are ALL SINNERS and cannot do anything to save ourselves. A correct view of sin is that it will ultimately lead to death in EVERYONE'S LIFE unless covered by the blood of Jesus.

I am just trying to correct you b/c i can see the devil is leading you away by telling you that you are a good person and that babies don't sin (this is problematic b/c then you can believe the heresy that living a perfect life IS a possibility; hence no need for Christ. This is false. We are supposed to seek perfection ["be perfect as my heavenly Father is perfect"], but know that we will never attain it on this earth)

Hopefully you aren't offended so much as to run away from the truth we are telling you to go find people that will tell you what you want to hear. There is nothing good that will come from that.

You are a sister in Christ to me as long as you love Christ and believe his word. :hug:
</IMG>

[newheart]

Frey, i'm sorry that you are offended. That is not my goal. But when people hear what they do not WANT to hear, they can get offended. It's how things are. Should we stop saying what is truth b/c it's offensive?

I bolded your most erroneous statement. You are NOT good. That is one of the MAIN parts of the Gospel Message. Jesus came to save sinners. Do you remember the verse that says, "our hearts are desperately wicked, all the time" ? Do you remember the verse where Jesus says, "I came to save the sick, not the healthy" ?

As Christians we shouldn't just talk about sin 100% of the time. I completely agree with you there. But we must have a correct view of sin. A correct view of sin is that it is ANYTHING that goes against the Will of God. A correct view of sin is that we are ALL SINNERS and cannot do anything to save ourselves. A correct view of sin is that it will ultimately lead to death in EVERYONE'S LIFE unless covered by the blood of Jesus.

I am just trying to correct you b/c i can see the devil is leading you away by telling you that you are a good person and that babies don't sin (this is problematic b/c then you can believe the heresy that living a perfect life IS a possibility; hence no need for Christ. This is false. We are supposed to seek perfection ["be perfect as my heavenly Father is perfect"], but know that we will never attain it on this earth)

Hopefully you aren't offended so much as to run away from the truth we are telling you to go find people that will tell you what you want to hear. There is nothing good that will come from that.

You are a sister in Christ to me as long as you love Christ and believe his word. :hug:
</IMG>

Now I can't get back in here as myself, as freya, but I was determined to get back here to tell you that God doesn't make mistakes. He created good people who decided to sin and do sin but they are good people, good people who sin. Now is you want to be a bad person, you go right ahead and be a bad person regardlesss of what God created you good. But don't you ever dare to tell me that I am not a good person ever again. And when you tell people that, you are saying God made a mistake and created sinners right from the start.

I consider your attitude to feel free to call me bad a sin in itself. And believe me, no one in this forum will ever call me bad again because I will not be here. And you should not be either. It is is sin to call people bad. Go tell God He created bad people, that all His people are bad. That His creation is for not.

And you dare suggest that I will look for someone to tell me what I want to hear. I have never had that and don't look for it. It is some kind of corruption in your mind.

[mont974x4]

There is no good in us except that which comes from Him.

God did not make a mistake in creating sinful humans, sin entered the world through Adam and we all share in that.



I beleieve recognizing the fact that we are all born sinners and hopeless and helpless to save ourselves is our being poor in spirit, having godly sorrow, coming to Him in repentence, submitting to Him and growing in Him.

Mat 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Mat 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Mat 5:6 Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Mat 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Mat 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called sons of God.
Mat 5:10 Blessed are they that have been persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye when men shall reproach you, and persecute you, and say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets that were before you.
No where in Scripture does it say it is a sin to call someone bad, in fact, we are to spread the Gospel and coming to terms with the fact that we are ALL bad is a huge part of it. After salvation we are too encourage each other to live rightly and that means, in love, helping eachother recognize our weaknesses and our faults...showing them in the Word what is right and wrong, bearing each others burdens, iron sharpening iron, edifying the saints (bulding eachother up) by chiseling away the rough edges, praying together and for each other, studying the Word together, holding eachother accountable sharing in the struggles and the joys.

[Floatingaxe]

Psalm 14:13...
They have all turned aside,
They have together become corrupt;
There is none who does good,
No, not one.

Jesus, in Matthew 19:17...
So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

Romans 3:12...
They have all turned aside;They have together become unprofitable;There is none who does good, no, not one."



Even God Himself sees there is no one good! What would be the point of Jesus coming and shedding His righteous blood if any of us were good?

[newheart]

Psalm 14:13...
They have all turned aside,
They have together become corrupt;
There is none who does good,
No, not one.

Jesus, in Matthew 19:17...
So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

Romans 3:12...
They have all turned aside;They have together become unprofitable;There is none who does good, no, not one."



Even God Himself sees there is no one good! What would be the point of Jesus coming and shedding His righteous blood if any of us were good?

Some people follow God by living inside the bible. And that is okay.

Some people follow God by living inside of God. And that is okay.

What is not okay is one telling the other that they are bad and wrong.

Jesus died on the cross to save the good people He created because He didn't want the alternative. I am allowed that belief if I so choose. And you are allowed your belief and I have never told you you were wrong or bad or good, whatever you want to be. I said what I thought and you wish to crucify me for doing so.

Go for it. This is a short pass that I have.

[mont974x4]

Is God and His Word seperate?

[newheart]

Is God and His Word seperate?

He Lives!!!!!!!!!!

[Floatingaxe]

Some people follow God by living inside the bible. And that is okay.

Some people follow God by living inside of God. And that is okay.

What is not okay is one telling the other that they are bad and wrong.

Jesus died on the cross to save the good people He created because He didn't want the alternative. I am allowed that belief if I so choose. And you are allowed your belief and I have never told you you were wrong or bad or good, whatever you want to be. I said what I thought and you wish to crucify me for doing so.

Go for it. This is a short pass that I have.


Stop editing God's words to suit your own sensibilities. Either He's right and you are wrong, or you are the right-thinking one and God is just plain wrong.

No one is "crucifying" anyone! (silly language, btw) And no one has the luxury of picking and choosing what to believe in the Word of God. That is why Jesus talks about the Body being in unity. Disunity is caused by disobedience and deliberate misinterpretation of the Word of God.

The Truth of God's Word is not a smorgasbord! You take what He dishes out.

[newheart]

Stop editing God's words to suit your own sensibilities. Either He's right and you are wrong, or you are the right-thinking one and God is just plain wrong.

No one is "crucifying" anyone! (silly language, btw) And no one has the luxury of picking and choosing what to believe in the Word of God. That is why Jesus talks about the Body being in unity. Disunity is caused by disobedience and deliberate misinterpretation of the Word of God.

The Truth of God's Word is not a smorgasbord! You take what He dishes out.

Everybody has the luxury of reading and interpreting and finding some things to be sensible and some things not. Everyone has the right to their belief. You have the right to yours and I do say you are wrong. I just want you to stop saying that I am wrong because I am not wrong, not any more than you are wrong.

I don't pick and choose. Or look for someone to tell me that I am right or to hear what I want to hear. I follow where God leads me and if it happen to be different than you, that has to be okay. My experiences have brought me where I am and God carried me for a period of time and I follow Him and He does not call be bad. I know I sin, we all sin but a person does not have to be bad to sin. Good people sin. My belief. You don't have to believe it. I don't have to believe you. I don't say you are wrong. Please give me the same consideration and this will be over.

[Floatingaxe]

Everybody has the luxury of reading and interpreting and finding some things to be sensible and some things not. Everyone has the right to their belief. You have the right to yours and I do say you are wrong. I just want you to stop saying that I am wrong because I am not wrong, not any more than you are wrong.

I don't pick and choose. Or look for someone to tell me that I am right or to hear what I want to hear. I follow where God leads me and if it happen to be different than you, that has to be okay. My experiences have brought me where I am and God carried me for a period of time and I follow Him and He does not call be bad. I know I sin, we all sin but a person does not have to be bad to sin. Good people sin. My belief. You don't have to believe it. I don't have to believe you. I don't say you are wrong. Please give me the same consideration and this will be over.


God NEVER leads one person one way and another person another. He says no one is good. Believe it! Where you are in error is in your reluctance to believe something that isn't palatable to your sensibilities.

Everyone sins! Because we are bad! It is only because the blood of Jesus covering us that God looks at us and sees the righteousness of His Son, and calls us acceptable and righteous.

[mont974x4]

God and His Word can not be seperated. We learn from His living and powerful Word who He is and what is expected of us.


God is not the author of confusion so if we read His Word and pray for His leading He will lead us to His TRUTH and away from our truth.

[newheart]

God and His Word can not be seperated. We learn from His living and powerful Word who He is and what is expected of us.


God is not the author of confusion so if we read His Word and pray for His leading He will lead us to His TRUTH and away from our truth.

Maybe God and His Word cannot be separated but different people with different experiences can and do approach God and His Word in a different way, different path. Same word just people with different experiences.

It is wrong for me to be here. I was going to put this in a PM but I will bear it here. My prayers, my approach to God with God is just to be able to get out of bed in the morning, just to for once not wishing to be dead, just to get from one moment to next for often a full hour or day is more than I can handle. That is how messed up my life is and God carries me and my thoughts come from there.

My beliefs cannot come from the bible that tells me that I am worse than I already am. The only thing that keeps me going is the knowledge that I was not born this way but twisted this way by human beings, with God's knowledge but He does not interfere.

Every time you attack me that I am wrong, your increase your power and take mine. This has been my life always, but no longer for this is my only way to fight back, not a very good way but better than the nothing I have been able to do all my life.

You are strong....the bible is your life. I had everything taken from me and God is my life. If you can place all(total)your belief on the bible only, I can place all(total)my belief on God only for He created the bible, the bible did create Him. When I need a truth, I go to God for He loves me, calls me good and takes care of me. The bible hates me, or is it people who see only sin in the bible hate me and want to destroy me and what I believe in.

One does not have to be bad to sin.

God calls me good. Who are you to argue?

He lifted me from the bottom of the hole that human beings put me in. He stayed close to me through years of agony, He tended me, He answered instantly when I cried out.

Who are you to say I cannot put all my faith, belief in God. It was God, not the bible, who carried me.

[mont974x4]

Maybe God and His Word cannot be separated but different people with different experiences can and do approach God and His Word in a different way, different path. Same word just people with different experiences.

It is wrong for me to be here. I was going to put this in a PM but I will bear it here. My prayers, my approach to God with God is just to be able to get out of bed in the morning, just to for once not wishing to be dead, just to get from one moment to next for often a full hour or day is more than I can handle. That is how messed up my life is and God carries me and my thoughts come from there.

My beliefs cannot come from the bible that tells me that I am worse than I already am. The only thing that keeps me going is the knowledge that I was not born this way but twisted this way by human beings, with God's knowledge but He does not interfere.

Every time you attack me that I am wrong, your increase your power and take mine. This has been my life always, but no longer for this is my only way to fight back, not a very good way but better than the nothing I have been able to do all my life.

You are strong....the bible is your life. I had everything taken from me and God is my life. If you can place all(total)your belief on the bible only, I can place all(total)my belief on God only for He created the bible, the bible did create Him. When I need a truth, I go to God for He loves me, calls me good and takes care of me. The bible hates me, or is it people who see only sin in the bible hate me and want to destroy me and what I believe in.

One does not have to be bad to sin.

God calls me good. Who are you to argue?

He lifted me from the bottom of the hole that human beings put me in. He stayed close to me through years of agony, He tended me, He answered instantly when I cried out.

Who are you to say I cannot put all my faith, belief in God. It was God, not the bible, who carried me.
My dear sister, I know exactly what it is like to be carried by Him. A good day for me, physically, is one where I just have the pain, fatigue, and stiffness a normal person gets with the flu...a bad day is when I can't pick my feet up off the floor with out great pain, even my hair hurts and my entire body screams in agony no matter what position I am in.

Add that physical torment to the depression that can come with it and I am in a bad way.


I find my strength and endurance in Him and His Word. On my bad days I spend extra time reading the Bible and in prayer.


None of this is one person against another. None of it is our power over yours. It is an encouragment for all of us to seek Him and His will in His Word and in prayer to become the mena nd women we are supposed to be, the people He desires us to be.

It's all about Him and His standards and His will and His glory and honor and power.

[andross77]

Maybe God and His Word cannot be separated but different people with different experiences can and do approach God and His Word in a different way, different path. Same word just people with different experiences.

It is wrong for me to be here. I was going to put this in a PM but I will bear it here. My prayers, my approach to God with God is just to be able to get out of bed in the morning, just to for once not wishing to be dead, just to get from one moment to next for often a full hour or day is more than I can handle. That is how messed up my life is and God carries me and my thoughts come from there.

My beliefs cannot come from the bible that tells me that I am worse than I already am. The only thing that keeps me going is the knowledge that I was not born this way but twisted this way by human beings, with God's knowledge but He does not interfere.

Every time you attack me that I am wrong, your increase your power and take mine. This has been my life always, but no longer for this is my only way to fight back, not a very good way but better than the nothing I have been able to do all my life.

You are strong....the bible is your life. I had everything taken from me and God is my life. If you can place all(total)your belief on the bible only, I can place all(total)my belief on God only for He created the bible, the bible did create Him. When I need a truth, I go to God for He loves me, calls me good and takes care of me. The bible hates me, or is it people who see only sin in the bible hate me and want to destroy me and what I believe in.

One does not have to be bad to sin.

God calls me good. Who are you to argue?

He lifted me from the bottom of the hole that human beings put me in. He stayed close to me through years of agony, He tended me, He answered instantly when I cried out.

Who are you to say I cannot put all my faith, belief in God. It was God, not the bible, who carried me.

Hi again newheart, glad you didn't leave us in the middle of a discussion. You are not understanding me or your are purposefully misquoting me, i'm not sure which. OBVIOUSLY, God created humans as GOOD. It says this in the first few chapters of Genesis. That doesn't take a theologian to understand. EVERYTHING God created was GOOD, even Satan (Satan was a created angel who was originally good). When God created us good, he also created us with free will, so that we could choose good or evil, to obey or disobey, to eat the fruit or to abstain. Obviously the first humans, Adam and Eve, chose to disobey and the bible tells us that sin entered into ALL OF US from their disobedience (Rom. 5:12).

Here is the key: since sin entered into the world through Adam and Eve, we are ALL NOW SINNERS. Our hearts are desperately wicked all the time. You are no longer the good, perfect creation that God made BECAUSE sin has entered you and twisted/marred you. It has happened to ALL OF US.

This could simple be an argument over semantics, and if so, i apologize b/c there is no point in debating this long on a theological topic when it's due to simple semantics. But i don't want you to fall for Satan's trap that you are a GOOD PERSON. When someone called Jesus good, what did he say? In Mark 10:18 or Luke 18:19 he says, "Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone." Partly he did this to accept this divine praise in a secretive way and partly he said this to remind us we are all twisted by sin.

Lastly, please stop trying to say that some of us put our faith in the Bible in contrast to you putting your faith in God. Every Christian puts his faith ONLY IN CHRIST, otherwise he is not a Christian. But we know from 2 Tim. 3:16 that "All Scripture is God-breathed...." which means it is LITERALLY the very words of God to us. Since this is the case and we know that God cannot lie (Num. 23:19), we can trust the words in the 66 books of the Old Testament and New Testament to instruct us infallibly how to live. So when you "hear something from God" or you make a decision about something, it MUST line up with Scripture. If it doesn't, you are making a sinful decision or being led astray by an evil spirit (or both).

Am i making sense? I know this is long winded but you seem to be Mature in your Love for God but a baby in your faith theologically. You are mature in the more important half, but we must be mature in both in order to live the full lives God intended.

Blessings.

[newheart]

Hi again newheart, glad you didn't leave us in the middle of a discussion. You are not understanding me or your are purposefully misquoting me, i'm not sure which. OBVIOUSLY, God created humans as GOOD. It says this in the first few chapters of Genesis. That doesn't take a theologian to understand. EVERYTHING God created was GOOD, even Satan (Satan was a created angel who was originally good). When God created us good, he also created us with free will, so that we could choose good or evil, to obey or disobey, to eat the fruit or to abstain. Obviously the first humans, Adam and Eve, chose to disobey and the bible tells us that sin entered into ALL OF US from their disobedience (Rom. 5:12).

Here is the key: since sin entered into the world through Adam and Eve, we are ALL NOW SINNERS. Our hearts are desperately wicked all the time. You are no longer the good, perfect creation that God made BECAUSE sin has entered you and twisted/marred you. It has happened to ALL OF US.

This could simple be an argument over semantics, and if so, i apologize b/c there is no point in debating this long on a theological topic when it's due to simple semantics. But i don't want you to fall for Satan's trap that you are a GOOD PERSON. When someone called Jesus good, what did he say? In Mark 10:18 or Luke 18:19 he says, "Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone." Partly he did this to accept this divine praise in a secretive way and partly he said this to remind us we are all twisted by sin.

Lastly, please stop trying to say that some of us put our faith in the Bible in contrast to you putting your faith in God. Every Christian puts his faith ONLY IN CHRIST, otherwise he is not a Christian. But we know from 2 Tim. 3:16 that "All Scripture is God-breathed...." which means it is LITERALLY the very words of God to us. Since this is the case, we can trust the words in the 66 books of the Old Testament and New Testament to instruct us infallibly how to live. So when you "hear something from God" or you make a decision about something, it MUST line up with Scripture. If it doesn't, you are making a sinful decision or being led astray by an evil spirit (or both).

Am i making sense? I know this is long winded but you seem to be Mature in your Love for God but a baby in your faith theologically. You are mature in the more important half, but we must be mature in both in order to live the full lives God intended.

Blessings.

I will just say one more thing. You did it again. You just said once again that I am not good. That is the last time I will ever see that. I commit sin but I am still the good person that God created and always will be. If you wish to live with satan in you that is fine, but I personally invited God into my soul and there is only room for Him so He swept satan away. I still sin because of this body but I am a good person who sins like everybody else in the world.

The difference between you and me is that I am comfortable with who I am and have no need to pressure people into my belief. Your belief must be rather unstable to have you need so desperately to make everybody to believe as you do.

I will not be back because you will not be crushing your terms on me again. You keep them. I don't want them.

[andross77]

I will just say one more thing. You did it again. You just said once again that I am not good. That is the last time I will ever see that. I commit sin but I am still the good person that God created and always will be. If you wish to live with satan in you that is fine, but I personally invited God into my soul and there is only room for Him so He swept satan away. I still sin because of this body but I am a good person who sins like everybody else in the world.

The difference between you and me is that I am comfortable with who I am and have no need to pressure people into my belief. Your belief must be rather unstable to have you need so desperately to make everybody to believe as you do.

I will not be back because you will not be crushing your terms on me again. You keep them. I don't want them.

Ok, well i've done my part. I've told you God's truth (not mine) which is plainly laid out in Scripture. But you did not want to hear it. You are like those described in 2 Timothy 4:3 that "will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions,".

Even though as i reflect on these posts, i'm pretty sure this is just a stupid argument over words and not actual meaning. We both believe we are sinners, but you think you are STILL a good person even after being marred by sin and i contend that it is sin that scars you and MAKES you bad.

I hope you read more Scripture and allow the Holy Spirit to teach you rather than just "listening to the Spirit" and disregarding God's Word.

[MelissaShae]

I will just say one more thing. You did it again. You just said once again that I am not good. That is the last time I will ever see that. I commit sin but I am still the good person that God created and always will be. If you wish to live with satan in you that is fine, but I personally invited God into my soul and there is only room for Him so He swept satan away. I still sin because of this body but I am a good person who sins like everybody else in the world.

The difference between you and me is that I am comfortable with who I am and have no need to pressure people into my belief. Your belief must be rather unstable to have you need so desperately to make everybody to believe as you do.

I will not be back because you will not be crushing your terms on me again. You keep them. I don't want them.

Oh please don't leave. If you would like someone to talk to that will not judge you and point out your sins then you can PM me and I woul d be happy to talk to you or just listen.

I see a lot people so quick to point out other peopls sins and flaws and while they are pointing that finger they should realize that 3 more are pointing at them.

Jesus said that we are to lead people to God, not point out every sin they make, how is that helping someone.

[MelissaShae]

Ok, well i've done my part. I've told you God's truth (not mine) which is plainly laid out in Scripture. But you did not want to hear it. You are like those described in 2 Timothy 4:3 that "will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions,".

Even though as i reflect on these posts, i'm pretty sure this is just a stupid argument over words and not actual meaning. We both believe we are sinners, but you think you are STILL a good person even after being marred by sin and i contend that it is sin that scars you and MAKES you bad.

I hope you read more Scripture and allow the Holy Spirit to teach you rather than just "listening to the Spirit" and disregarding God's Word.

Wow what a judgemental comment. I wasn't aware that it was our job to label others as bad.

[andross77]

Oh please don't leave. If you would like someone to talk to that will not judge you and point out your sins then you can PM me and I woul d be happy to talk to you or just listen.

I see a lot people so quick to point out other peopls sins and flaws and while they are pointing that finger they should realize that 3 more are pointing at them.

Jesus said that we are to lead people to God, not point out every sin they make, how is that helping someone.

I'm not sure if you read this thread at all Melissa, but we weren't not pointing out newheart's/fey's sin. We were telling here that b/c she is a sinner, she is no longer a good person as layed out in Scripture. She disagrees with us and thinks she is still a good person and there is where the discussion is.

This topic was not about pointing out her sin and it would not be profitable for anyone. But incorrect theology can lead to sinful living and so it's good to "nip it in the bud" before it becomes "full grown". That is all.

[andross77]

Wow what a judgemental comment. I wasn't aware that it was our job to label others as bad.

Melissa, do you even know what a judgemental comment is? It is when i make my OWN judgement on a matter. This is not what i did here. I backed up my statements with Scripture showing you and others that it is God who said these things first and i agree with him.

If anyone is being judgemental here it is God and then we know that he is the Perfect Judge so we should be fine with it. Please don't label me "judgemental" when you don't understand it and are misusing the term.

[Floatingaxe]

I will just say one more thing. You did it again. You just said once again that I am not good. That is the last time I will ever see that. I commit sin but I am still the good person that God created and always will be. If you wish to live with satan in you that is fine, but I personally invited God into my soul and there is only room for Him so He swept satan away. I still sin because of this body but I am a good person who sins like everybody else in the world.

The difference between you and me is that I am comfortable with who I am and have no need to pressure people into my belief. Your belief must be rather unstable to have you need so desperately to make everybody to believe as you do.

I will not be back because you will not be crushing your terms on me again. You keep them. I don't want them.


No one is good, my dear, but in Christ, we are made perfect! God looks at us as perfect because of Jesus. Understand that? Jesus is the restorer of our original Edenic goodness, which we will have once again when He returns in all His glory. Until then we struggle, we sin, we repent, we are forgiven,etc etc etc.

Stop accusing us of being God-haters and you also stop denigrating the Word of God. Then we shall get along.

[newheart]

No one is good, my dear, but in Christ, we are made perfect! God looks at us as perfect because of Jesus. Understand that? Jesus is the restorer of our original Edenic goodness, which we will have once again when He returns in all His glory. Until then we struggle, we sin, we repent, we are forgiven,etc etc etc.

Stop accusing us of being God-haters and you also stop denigrating the Word of God. Then we shall get along.

I did not accuse you of being God haters and I was not denigrating the Word of God. You refuse to get along with me because you seem to think it impossible that anyone but your belief could be right or even okay and you were valiant warriors for God against me. Congratulations.

[Floatingaxe]

God is my life. If you can place all(total)your belief on the bible only, I can place all(total)my belief on God only for He created the bible, the bible did create Him. When I need a truth, I go to God for He loves me, calls me good and takes care of me. The bible hates me, or is it people who see only sin in the bible hate me and want to destroy me and what I believe in.

One does not have to be bad to sin.

God calls me good. Who are you to argue?

He lifted me from the bottom of the hole that human beings put me in. He stayed close to me through years of agony, He tended me, He answered instantly when I cried out.

Who are you to say I cannot put all my faith, belief in God. It was God, not the bible, who carried me.


My comment was in answer to your statements above...

You seem to think that we don't know God like you do, and that we follow after the Bible only.

I will speak for myself. I also love God, for He is all in all, and He has saved me from Hellfire and set me on a Rock! Amen?

The Bible is His Word for my life. You cannot divorce God from His Word.

We don't hate you and want to tear you down. We were just correcting your belief that people are good. Don't take that so seriously that it does a number on your mind! Your self-worth comes from knowing God and what He thinks of you. If you know Jesus Christ as Saviour and Lord, then God looks upon you as His precious child! He never condemns with harshness. If you feel condemned, then I apologize. Condemnation comes from Satan. I was not condemning you, but rather correcting your mistaken idea that is not backed up in Scripture.

Please stick around and be a part of things. I am sure you have much to add to this messageboard.

[newheart]

My comment was in answer to your statements above...

You seem to think that we don't know God like you do, and that we follow after the Bible only.

I will speak for myself. I also love God, for He is all in all, and He has saved me from Hellfire and set me on a Rock! Amen?

The Bible is His Word for my life. You cannot divorce God from His Word.

We don't hate you and want to tear you down. We were just correcting your belief that people are good. Don't take that so seriously that it does a number on your mind! Your self-worth comes from knowing God and what He thinks of you. If you know Jesus Christ as Saviour and Lord, then God looks upon you as His precious child! He never condemns with harshness. If you feel condemned, then I apologize. Condemnation comes from Satan. I was not condemning you, but rather correcting your mistaken idea that is not backed up in Scripture.

Please stick around and be a part of things. I am sure you have much to add to this messageboard.

Our basic beliefs are the same and I don't want to argue. We approach the same God in each our own way. And I will defend my right to my belief. And as long as you tell me I am wrong, that I am going against God, going against what you deem to be the right belief, I will defend my right to my to my belief as right. Now if you want to fight me down till I beg for mercy and tell you that you are right and I am wrong, you are going to wait a long time.

I don't want to be in here. I want to get out of here but I will not go as long as you insist that I have to believe that I am bad as you believe, I don't have to believe that and I won't. And unless you leave it alone, I fight for my right to believe as I choose and I am right, but I do not and will not say you are wrong. I just want to leave it alone but you refuse....you seem to have to be right and I am wrong. Not so.

Just don't post that I am not good, don't insist that I am wrong in what I believe(what I believe makes no difference to you) and I won't come back. It is as simple as that. No one is defeated, no one is wrong, quite simple if you can handle it.

[Floatingaxe]

Our basic beliefs are the same and I don't want to argue. We approach the same God in each our own way. And I will defend my right to my belief. And as long as you tell me I am wrong, that I am going against God, going against what you deem to be the right belief, I will defend my right to my to my belief as right. Now if you want to fight me down till I beg for mercy and tell you that you are right and I am wrong, you are going to wait a long time.

I don't want to be in here. I want to get out of here but I will not go as long as you insist that I have to believe that I am bad as you believe, I don't have to believe that and I won't. And unless you leave it alone, I fight for my right to believe as I choose and I am right, but I do not and will not say you are wrong. I just want to leave it alone but refuse....you seem to have to be right and I am wrong. Not so.

Just don't post that I am not good, that I am wrong in what I believe and I won't come back. It is as simple as that. No one is defeated, no one is wrong, quite simple if you can handle it.


Did you actually read what I wrote??? :scratch:

[Tildyd]

Did you actually read what I wrote??? :scratch:
I actually did. That was awesome.

[newheart]

Did you actually read what I wrote??? :scratch:

Yes I did and you told me that I divorce God from His Word and I told you that I will not leave until you leave it alone. I do not divorce God from His Word. I divorce you from me because you will not leave it alone. You have to have the last word on what is the right way to believe God and His Word.

All my life I laid down for people to walk on me because I don't have the flowery speech to put people in their place and keep them there.

All I ask is that you stop telling me that I believe the wrong things. I do not ask that you say or think or anything that I am right. Just stop trying to get in the last word, your belief, that I am wrong. I don't believe exactly as you but I am not wrong.

Just say goodbye. It'll work.

[Floatingaxe]

Yes I did and you told me that I divorce God from His Word and I told you that I will not leave until you leave it alone. I do not divorce God from His Word. I divorce you from me because you will not leave it alone. You have to have the last word on what is the right way to believe God and His Word.

All my life I laid down for people to walk on me because I don't have the flowery speech to put people in their place and keep them there.

All I ask is that you stop telling me that I believe the wrong things. I do not ask that you say or think or anything that I am right. Just stop trying to get in the last word, your belief, that I am wrong. I don't believe exactly as you but I am not wrong.

Just say goodbye. It'll work.


Wow! Don't bring your angst with your past in here, tranferred onto us. We are not your enemy. The healing power of Jesus Christ is available for you.

Blessings!

[mont974x4]

(ASV)
Luk 18:18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luk 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, even God.
Luk 18:20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor thy father and mother.
Luk 18:21 And he said, All these things have I observed from my youth up.
Luk 18:22 And when Jesus heard it, he said unto him, One thing thou lackest yet: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
Luk 18:23 But when he heard these things, he became exceeding sorrowful; for he was very rich.
Luk 18:24 And Jesus seeing him said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
Luk 18:25 For it is easier for a camel to enter in through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Luk 18:26 And they that heard it said, Then who can be saved?
Luk 18:27 But he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.
Luk 18:28 And Peter said, Lo, we have left our own, and followed thee.
Luk 18:29 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or wife, or brethren, or parents, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake,
Luk 18:30 who shall not receive manifold more in this time, and in the world to come eternal life.


We can not save ourselves and our standard of "good" isn't His. IS there good in us? Can we do good? Yes, but only in Him and through and because of Him. There is no good apart from Him.

Hell is going to be filled with "good" people for God is holy and just and righteous.

[newheart]

We can not save ourselves and our standard of "good" isn't His. IS there good in us? Can we do good? Yes, but only in Him and through and because of Him. There is no good apart from Him.

Hell is going to be filled with "good" people for God is holy and just and righteous.


Hi Mont

I agree that we cannot save ourselves and that it is God who saves us. He has saved me more than once.

He created me good and I am good and I sin and the sin does not make me bad. The sin is bad, sins, but I am good. And just for you, you may have the last word....You have said it, said that I am going to hell. I hope I don't meet you there.

[mont974x4]

NO, you are not going to hell if you're His child and I surely hope to see you in paradise.


We don't have to have all the answers or always be right we just have to be His and He saves us once and for all...even tho life gets really crappy at times, it doesn;t mean He needs to save us all over again only that we have another opportunity to see Him work in our lives and show us His love.

[Floatingaxe]

It's through Jesus Christ we are saved. God sees us through the blood of Jesus, and views us as righteous!:clap:

Our own goodness is as filthy rags to God.

Isaiah 64:6 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=64&verse=6&version=51&context=verse)
We are all infected and impure with sin.When we display our righteous deeds,they are nothing but filthy rags.


I am not meaning to belabour this, but I will say this and be done with it.

Blessings! :)

[newheart]

It's through Jesus Christ we are saved. God sees us through the blood of Jesus, and views us as righteous!:clap:

Our own goodness is as filthy rags to God.

we display our righteous deeds,they are nothing but filthy rags.


I am not meaning to belabour this, but I will say this and be done with it.

Blessings! :)


You should be ashamed of yourself Axe.

Trying to lay blessings on thinking you are the winner with your filthy rags. People are not filthy rags. God created good people who sin and the sins are bad but the people are good.

You couldn't leave it alone could you. You just had to come back and raise the flag like you are a winner. You are such a loser.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

[Floatingaxe]

You should be ashamed of yourself Axe.

Trying to lay blessings on thinking you are the winner with your filthy rags. People are not filthy rags. God created good people who sin and the sins are bad but the people are good.

You couldn't leave it alone could you. You just had to come back and raise the flag like you are a winner. You are such a loser.

You should be ashamed of yourself.


Excuse me, but you didn't quite get my post quoted correctly...

I am sorry you think I am a loser. God tells me every day I am not. I am a winner for Jesus! He loves me, and blesses me, and uses me to bless others.


Do you ever read your Bible?