Homosexuality/Abortion/Hot topic of the week

[colormebeautiful]

Hey all,

I've been in the Christian Philosophy & Ethics forum a lot, especially in the Abortion and Homosexuality forums. At first I was very interested in these issues, but now I find I grow tired and weary of the constant debate and argument.

I believe there is a reason there is very little in way of Scripture on these subjects. Not so we can argue amongst ourselves for days and weeks and years - but because these subjects are not the biggest cause of Christ. When we have people who are broken and hurting, out of a job, victims of abuse, going through a divorce, struggling with alcoholism... when we have so many people in the streets of the cities who have no place to live and no food to eat, why are we not out there feeding Jesus' sheep? Why are we sitting around debating ethics of homosexuality and abortion, things that do not affect 90% of us, when we should be considering how best to serve our King and live the life he has called us?

I am guily of it too. But that does not mean we cannot change. Repent. It does not just mean ask for forgiveness, but also turn away from your old life and seek the new.

[prophecystudent]

While I agree with your basic premise that we could be better spending our time doing other than debating about homosexuality and/or abortion, I cannot find it in my heart/spirit to just ignore those two topics.

The bible is clear about it. Both are sins. I refuse to argue the points other than to say the following.

Homosexuality is a sin. (I refuse to address the incredible health problems it causes). God said we are to love the sinner but hate the sin. That fits both cases of abortion and homosexuality.

End of "discussion". There is no need to try to argue with someone who is simply looking for justification for their conduct. State the biblical position and move on. We do not have to, nor should we, condone either behavior, but we don't have to waste valuable time "debating" them with someone who does not want to have a legitimate discussion.

While I was still working I had two homosexual women working for me. They knew that I knew their "preference" and my position on it. I simply told them (when they asked) that I considered it to be wrong, that the bible says it is a sin. However, the bible also says that we are to hate the sin, but love the sinner.

That ended the issue in both cases. We worked very well together, with tons of mutual respect, etc etc etc.

Fred

[Artificial Intelligence]

Well how about alcoholism or drug use, to many in the Church this is not an issue. What about prostitution or practicing witchcraft? something we probably don’t see all that much in the Church either. As we continue on, we whittle away anything that is sin and let it go, and in the end we say ”accept Jesus!” and they ask “why?” we say “…just because!”? Jesus came to save everyone/anyone, I don’t think He intended to skip anyone, that’s why some in the Church are raised up to witness specifically to them. Is their witness any less than others?

As for how much it is referenced in scripture, that does not matter, even if mentioned once it still holds true. If the scriptures went into depth saying over and over again the same things, would they be inclined to repent of it any more? People would have a hard time just reading the many thousands upon thousands of pages if everything was in such depth, yet many have a tuff time just reading and believing what has already been written.

[JeffTheLearner]

I couldnt have said it any better myself Mr. Faith Warrior!!!

All Ide add is, God is the Avenger, there sins will catch up with them.

Jer 2:19 "Your own wickedness will correct you, And your apostasies will reprove you; Know therefore and see that it is evil and bitter For you to forsake the LORD your God, And the dread of Me is not in you," declares the Lord GOD of hosts."

Anyways, standing on the Truth is are job. If its sin we are to say so. But to judge, that is not are job.
I still look upon women with lust ...thats adutery.
I lie to my boss when I dont want to go to work.
...My point is, to be gay is sin. But I sin too.
If the gay person is seeking God and confesses his sin, He will forgive.
The problem is many gays are trying to say that they are not sinning, which is a lie.
How are they to be forgiven if they dont confess?

[white dove]

Hey all,

I've been in the Christian Philosophy & Ethics forum a lot, especially in the Abortion and Homosexuality forums. At first I was very interested in these issues, but now I find I grow tired and weary of the constant debate and argument.

I believe there is a reason there is very little in way of Scripture on these subjects. Not so we can argue amongst ourselves for days and weeks and years - but because these subjects are not the biggest cause of Christ. When we have people who are broken and hurting, out of a job, victims of abuse, going through a divorce, struggling with alcoholism... when we have so many people in the streets of the cities who have no place to live and no food to eat, why are we not out there feeding Jesus' sheep? Why are we sitting around debating ethics of homosexuality and abortion, things that do not affect 90% of us, when we should be considering how best to serve our King and live the life he has called us?

I am guily of it too. But that does not mean we cannot change. Repent. It does not just mean ask for forgiveness, but also turn away from your old life and seek the new.

First off, let me just say that I admire your boldness to approach these topics which persistantly get brought up here, but which threads just as persistantly get closed down. I will be impressed if this lasts the night.

That being said, how does homosexuality affect as all? Or rather, how does homosexual marriage affect us all? We define (or redefine) what it means to be married or what family really is...that can have a huge impact on everybody. There exists no such thing as the "typical" family anymore...but that is for another thread at another time.

Abortion, how does it affect us? It is still legal, so it is still a viable choice for women. Choice is huge; it has the power and potential to affect multitudes.

Whether or not we believe it is a sin, not a sin, kind of a sin but maybe not in all cases....whatever. It would be erroneous to think that such things cannot create any impact for them, whether directly or indirectly.


That being said, I totally agree with the hot topic button and how it is so consistantly used in politics. You have a flavor of the month, something that will sway voters one way or another and you'll get legislation for it, you'll have 10 million people talking about it before anything ever gets done. But, sometimes the hot topics will bring to light something that really needs attention. Grant it, many issues need attention, but how does one take precedence over another?

[arielette]

How to put theses issues in perspective? Brings to mind when Jesus was having his feet anointed with perfume and he responded to complaints it was too expensive and the money should go to the poor:

"The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me." (Matthew 26:11)

Perhaps the main issue should be the people in our own lives, on our front steps. It could be that person became trapped in sin, in order to try to fill a hole in their heart. We could show them where to find the love to heal it. Each person and situation is different.

Saying that, the reason why these issues are so important, i.m.o., is because we are being forced to accept a "gay" lifestyle or abortion when it is against our Christian beliefs. How to take a stand and love the "sinner" is not easy. Especially since we all are sinners. There are many people who Paul says will not inherit:

"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." (I Corinthians 6 9-11)

It's a serious issue that we as Christians should not stay passive and silent about.

[Jessica Lauren]

I truthfully think people need to focus more on their OWN sins and correcting those than judging others. Just my opinion.

[blessedpeace]

why is it when God's word is spoken by a believer against sin, the believer is accused of judging? why is that?

homosexuality is a sin. PERIOD! God says it is and i have just repeated what He says about it. now, where in that sentence have i judged anyone?

reject God's word if you must, but stop accusing people of judging when they are telling you what God explicitly says about sin.

God is the ultimate judge and he says homosexuality is a sin. debate it with HIM if you dare.

[Nadiine]

why is it when God's word is spoken by a believer against sin, the believer is accused of judging? why is that?

homosexuality is a sin. PERIOD! God says it is and i have just repeated what He says about it. now, where in that sentence have i judged anyone?

reject God's word if you must, but stop accusing people of judging when they are telling you what God explicitly says about sin.

God is the ultimate judge and he says homosexuality is a sin. debate it with HIM if you dare.
Oh they won't be debating once they're face to face with their Creator... no one will debate a thing.

I think the issue is simple - the Bible foretells what becomes of humanity as time goes on:

2 Tim 4:
2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths (fables).

This is the age of Joel Osteen - it's not ok to tell people the stark truth... you can only feed people positive FLUFF that builds them up & praises them...
Truth has fallen by the wayside. And why is that?

PEOPLE WANT IT THIS WAY. This problem goes clear back to the OT. Here's what the people were saying when God sent the prophets to warn them of impending judgment & bring them TRUTH:

Is. 30:9-11
For this is a rebellious people, false sons,
Sons who refuse to listen
To the instruction of the LORD;
Who say to the seers, "You must not see visions";
And to the prophets, "You must not prophesy to us what is right,
Speak to us pleasant words,
Prophesy illusions.
"Get out of the way, turn aside from the path,
Let us hear no more about the Holy One of Israel."

People are refusing God's truth and correction - when that happens, all that's left IS judgment from God becuz they're rebelling and won't turn anymore.
They don't want TRUTH becuz they prefer sin; even those professing Christ's own name! God help us.

I don't advocate continual judgment & rebuke to people as if it's a hobby we take on (that's a wrong spirit)... but we're to provide that when the situations call for it.
We should not only be worried about our own sins, but ALSO for the sins of others we care about; namely those who claim the Holy name of God Almighty, and continue in sin while promoting it.

TRUE LOVE CARES about more than self.

[Nadiine]

I truthfully think people need to focus more on their OWN sins and correcting those than judging others. Just my opinion.
WE WOULD ..... if only people would agree with the Bible on what Sin actually is!
Since people REDEFINE God's laws as per their own preferences & desires, others are left to point them out instead.

If we ALL accepted scripture as it teaches about what sin PLAINLY is... this wouldn't be necessary. This is why God had to send prophets to rebuke and warn the people of their spiritual condition (repeatedly)... it was a constant pattern.

There's nothing new under the sun; same issues (of sin)(presented in different situations & scenarios), new era.

[andross77]

Oh they won't be debating once they're face to face with their Creator... no one will debate a thing.

I think the issue is simple - the Bible foretells what becomes of humanity as time goes on:

2 Tim 4:
2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.


3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths (fables).


This is the age of Joel Osteen - it's not ok to tell people the stark truth... you can only feed people positive FLUFF that builds them up & praises them...
Truth has fallen by the wayside. And why is that?

PEOPLE WANT IT THIS WAY. This problem goes clear back to the OT. Here's what the people were saying when God sent the prophets to warn them of impending judgment & bring them TRUTH:

Is. 30:9-11
For this is a rebellious people, false sons,
Sons who refuse to listen
To the instruction of the LORD;
Who say to the seers, "You must not see visions";
And to the prophets, "You must not prophesy to us what is right,
Speak to us pleasant words,
Prophesy illusions.
"Get out of the way, turn aside from the path,
Let us hear no more about the Holy One of Israel."

People are refusing God's truth and correction - when that happens, all that's left IS judgment from God becuz they're rebelling and won't turn anymore.
They don't want TRUTH becuz they prefer sin; even those professing Christ's own name! God help us.

I don't advocate continual judgment & rebuke to people as if it's a hobby we take on (that's a wrong spirit)... but we're to provide that when the situations call for it.
We should not only be worried about our own sins, but ALSO for the sins of others we care about; namely those who claim the Holy name of God Almighty, and continue in sin while promoting it.

TRUE LOVE CARES about more than self.

well said :thumbsup:

[Jessica Lauren]

WE WOULD ..... if only people would agree with the Bible on what Sin actually is!
Since people REDEFINE God's laws as per their own preferences & desires, others are left to point them out instead.

Everyone interprets the Bible in their own way. If it were so clear cut, people wouldn't debate about it.


If we ALL accepted scripture as it teaches about what sin PLAINLY is... this wouldn't be necessary. This is why God had to send prophets to rebuke and warn the people of their spiritual condition (repeatedly)... it was a constant pattern.

Everyone also has to realize other people have free-will as well, so they should not be forced to believe like you. It is your life and God will judge you based on YOUR life, not if someone else had a gay marriage.

[spiritfilledjm]

There is currently a billboard on my corner saying "David loved Johnathan more than women" II Samuel 1:26 (may be wrong on the verse) anyways it was put up by the Indianapolis metropolitan church saying that, that scripture is proof that David was a bisexual and that Ruth loved Naomi like Adam loved Eve as proof that Ruth was a bisexual as well. They also believe that the word Eunuch meant that the Ethiopian in Acts 8:26-29 was gay when Strong's Concordanance says that he was a castrated male sex slave. Strong spent 30 years in his research, I'll take his defenition on this.

[MaidforHim]

I think your right a great many Christians could and should be doing more for Jesus.

However, there are also a great many servants for Christ out there too, some even risking their lives to spread the gospel. Not all Christians are sitting on their rearends, thank the Lord.:thumbsup:

I personally think that there is quite a bit mentioned on homosexuality in the Bible and that God's view on the subject is quite clear. Abortion is also addressed by what the Bible has to say about killing an unborn child or murder in general.

God's view on these things in the Bible is so plain and so clear to me. I think it used to be so plain and so clear that expanding on it further would have seemed redundant to the reader.

I think the only reason these things seem like arguable points to some people is that the tendancy for our society to turn away from God and towards evil is so great that the lines between good and evil appear horribly blurred.

We reason and reason and reason, using only our fleshly human wisdom and try to make God's word fit into what we think is right during any given generation.

It isn't until people, realize that God's word is perfection and authored by Him that they start to see the the world and all it's high minded ideas on these issues are false.

We as Christians discuss these things because they are relevent to the situations we face in life, when voting, when witnessing, when a seeking friend or coworker asks about our faith, when someone who's had an abortion reaches out for comfort and asks "Was I wrong and can God ever forgive me?"

Shareing God's perfect word and His offer of forgiveness, eternal life and His awesome love is relevent to all of us, especially those who've been decieved and fallen due to societies false ideals of what is right and wrong.

At least that's how I see it.:wave:

[andross77]

There is currently a billboard on my corner saying "David loved Johnathan more than women" II Samuel 1:26 (may be wrong on the verse) anyways it was put up by the Indianapolis metropolitan church saying that, that scripture is proof that David was a bisexual and that Ruth loved Naomi like Adam loved Eve as proof that Ruth was a bisexual as well. They also believe that the word Eunuch meant that the Ethiopian in Acts 8:26-29 was gay when Strong's Concordanance says that he was a castrated male sex slave. Strong spent 30 years in his research, I'll take his defenition on this.

That's weak "proof". Also, that would make Ruth incestual. Please tell me what 1 Corinthians 6:9 says and then tell me how it doesn't mean what it plainly says (those who practice homosexuality will not enter the Kingdom of God). The act of Homosexuality is a sin, just as Abortion is Murder. The Bible says it, I believe it ( i don't try and justify my actions by making Scripture say something it doesn't ).

[JeffTheLearner]

Their is One Truth, One Way, One Life. And the different ways and belief of others that are contrary to the Word. Are different ways.

The scripture is VERY clear, that their is One understanding, when it comes to understanding scripture. And if their is many...
...according to scripture, only ONE of them is right.

But just as I have seen, more conflicts in understanding has nothing to do with (different truths) in the Bible. But its peoples compromising of the Truth. And facts of scripture people DON’T want to live by.

As for you spiritfilledjm, why do you WANT to believe David was bisexual, and Ruth too?
Do you despise Gods Word?
Is His gift, HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN not good enough for you?
Please look at Gods Word, and seek it. Please don’t compromise scripture for whatever reason you are. If I go to heaven I want to see you their, a sister enjoying the goodness of God with me.

spiritfilledjm: (It would have been nice if you gave me a clue about this before I tried to reach out, you had me going there :sorry: )

V
V
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[spiritfilledjm]

That's weak "proof". Also, that would make Ruth incestual. Please tell me what 1 Corinthians 6:9 says and then tell me how it doesn't mean what it plainly says (those who practice homosexuality will not enter the Kingdom of God). The act of Homosexuality is a sin, just as Abortion is Murder. The Bible says it, I believe it ( i don't try and justify my actions by making Scripture say something it doesn't ).
I agree 100% with that. I just hate having to see the darn thing whenever I'm pulling out of my neighborhood to head to church every morning.