Visiting a Synagogue and different churches!

[karen freeinchristman]

I'm so excited, this weekend is another residential on my course - this time we are experiencing lots of different traditions:
Church of God of Prophecy (evangelical Methodist) (http://manchesterhistory.net/LONGSIGHT/CHURCH/prophecy.html)
Manchester Reform Synagogue (http://www.mcr-reform.org.uk/)
Manchester Cathedral (C of E) (http://www.manchestercathedralonline.co.uk/index.html#)
St Mary's RC Church, Manchester (http://stmarymanchester.catholicweb.com/)
Divine Liturgy, Church of St Aidan, Levenshulme (http://www.orthodox.clara.net/) (Orthodox)

:clap:

[RobNJ]

I'm so excited, this weekend is another residential on my course - this time we are experiencing lots of different traditions:
Church of God of Prophecy (evangelical Methodist) (http://manchesterhistory.net/LONGSIGHT/CHURCH/prophecy.html)
Manchester Reform Synagogue (http://www.mcr-reform.org.uk/)
Manchester Cathedral (C of E) (http://www.manchestercathedralonline.co.uk/index.html#)
St Mary's RC Church, Manchester (http://stmarymanchester.catholicweb.com/)
Divine Liturgy, Church of St Aidan, Levenshulme (http://www.orthodox.clara.net/) (Orthodox)

:clap:

Are you going to attend services in ALL of those in one weekend? :scratch:

Either way, sounds interesting!:thumbsup:


BTW.. When you get to St. Aidan, say hello to Fr. Gregory , for me.

[gtsecc]

oooh, you're going to like St. Aidan's.

[brightmorningstar]

Sounds exciting. Its good to visit other churches

[longhair75]

friend Karen,

This is a great opportunity!

[norbie]

I also think this will be very informative for you.
Study it and enjoy it and tell us after your Thoughts, please.
Norbie

[RobNJ]

Well? , How as the whirlwind tour? :)

[karen freeinchristman]

Well? , How as the whirlwind tour? :)
Six completely different services in 36 hours... I'm still recovering!:swoon:

Actually, it was amazing. The first service wasn't 'evangelical Methodist' as I had posted - I thought it was that from their website, but it turned out that was the historical background to the church. It was actually a Pentacostal church. It was a congregation with an Afro-caribbean background. They were wonderful! It was 8:00 am Saturday morning, probably about 20 of them with about 20 of us (we are all white Anglicans!) (They were forewarned of our attendance!). Anyway, we all loved that service, it felt so genuine and warm.

Next was the Jewish Synagogue Shabbat service, which was a family service, and lots of kids took part. It was excellent. Their prayer book was so informative, and it had the English translation and Hebrew + transliteration in it, which helped. Some was in English, but a lot in Hebrew. Very family-like and relaxed, apart from when they process around with the Torah scrolls, which is a very solemn and holy event. We were able to stay afterwards for some food and drink and fellowship which was great.

Then the Choral Evensong at Manchester Cathedral - many of us didn't like that so much, especially after what we had been to already that day; we weren't really participants as virtually the whole thing was sung by the choir alone (they were a very good choir, but they didn't appear to us to be worshipping as they sang - as if they are in it for the singing experience only).

Finally, the RC Mass. This was a pretty good service, most of it being very familiar to us anyway. The priest did the entire thing, though, which was a bit monotonous (I like differing voices in a service). We couldn't partake of the Eucharist, of course, but that was OK in my view (some of my fellow ordinands were very affected by that, though). The thing that really upset me was the very last hymn, which in my view was a hymn of worship to Mary. I would have to find the lyrics to show to you. I know RC's vehemently deny worshipping Mary, but this hymn was over the top. Only a couple of us were able to sing it (not me).

The next day (Sunday) we had a Eucharist from the Methodist Worship Book (one of our tutors is a Methodist minister). Then we went to the English Orthodox church that I gave the link for, St. Aidan's. Sorry to disappoint Glen, but I didn't like it. I didn't dislike it either - I was actually rather neutral about it. I didn't like the superior attitude put across in their literature and even by the Priest when we sat down with him for a question time after the service. I'm not an icon fan and I think the iconostasis is a bit naff to be honest. I don't like the theology of the priest spending so much time during the service in the Sanctuary behind the iconostasis. I understand the symbolism, but I don't like it. There were chairs, but we stood for a lot of the time; i didn't mind that. Their choir is not that great, but it was OK. Only 5 people in it. The Liturgy itself was fine. I liked the way they give the Eucharist to babies, even. It was also very nice to receive the Antidoron with everyone - made us feel more included. I also like their emphasis on the Resurrection.

Anyway, I don't have enough time to cover the details of all these services very well, but it was a great experience to go to all of them, even if they were theologically challenging and disagreeable to me.

[gtsecc]

I also like their emphasis on the Resurrection.

Their emphasis is on the resurection because it is Easter. There should be particular emphasis on it for Anglicans and Roman Catholics also.

On the whole, the Orthodox emphasise the incarnation more than any other confession.

[Aymn27]

Karen..I would have liked the penecostal best as well!!!

RE Catholics worshipping Mary - I think MANY cross the line...even if they deny it...

[JasonV]

Karen,

It sounds as though you have a great weekend! I've been trying to do the same thing on my own (I've got open invites to a local oneness Pentecostal church and my local Kingdom Hall). As for the Orthodox, I still think they have one of the best liturgical services out there, but I can agree with the off putting attitude of "we alone are right".

Anyway, glad you got a lot out of it. I wish more people would visit other churches to get a real feel for things.

[Torah613]

Karen, I have my own beef with Orthodoxy as well, which I won't get into (again) here.

I would point out that the food and drink served after services at Shul is properly called an Oneg, which means "Joy of the Sabbath." Many Rabbi's have said that it is more important than the Almidah which is the adoration of G-d before the opened Ark.

Just a off-beat question, did they wear the Tallit at the Shul you went to? I know some reform congregations do and some don't. My local Shul is unaffiliated with a lot of older members so it tends to stay a little old-school at times.

I'm also very glad for you that the Siddur they used had English in it. It can be very offputing to not know whats going on at all, but many congregations are not used to gentile guests as that has been a pretty recent phenomenon.

Jo

[karen freeinchristman]

Karen, I have my own beef with Orthodoxy as well, which I won't get into (again) here.

I would point out that the food and drink served after services at Shul is properly called an Oneg, which means "Joy of the Sabbath." Many Rabbi's have said that it is more important than the Almidah which is the adoration of G-d before the opened Ark.

Just a off-beat question, did they wear the Tallit at the Shul you went to? I know some reform congregations do and some don't. My local Shul is unaffiliated with a lot of older members so it tends to stay a little old-school at times.

I'm also very glad for you that the Siddur they used had English in it. It can be very offputing to not know whats going on at all, but many congregations are not used to gentile guests as that has been a pretty recent phenomenon.

Jo
I'll let you know if they wore the Tallit when you tell me what it is!!! ^_^

I think the meal was called a Kiddush.

by the way, something in the Siddur we found so beautiful, so we copied it down, and here it is:

The Meaning of Liturgy


Liturgy defines the community that prays
Prayer is the offering of each individual

Liturgy affirms the values of the community
Prayer sets those values on our lips and on our hearts

Liturgy unites those who share a tradition
Prayer connects us to all who pray

Liturgy describes the boundaries of a community
Prayer locates us within creation as a whole

Liturgy offers a language of prayer
Prayer reaches out beyond language

Liturgy places us within a history
Prayer opens us to the future

Liturgy invites our emotions
Prayer refines our emotions

Liturgy begins in the world we know
Prayer suggests worlds to be explored

Liturgy provides a space in which to pray
Prayer tests the truth of what we pray

Liturgy seeks to bring God into the world
Prayer helps make room for God in our lives

Liturgy provides security, continuity and certainty
Prayer disturbs, challenges and confronts

Liturgy without prayer may become sterile
Prayer without liturgy may become selfish


Liturgy is an event, Prayer is a risk
Liturgy sets limits, Prayer offers space
Liturgy asserts, Prayer expresses hope
Liturgy is the motor, Prayer is the fuel
Liturgy is the vehicle, Prayer is the journey
Liturgy is the companion, Prayer is the destination

[TomUK]

When i was doing the PGCE we went up to Birmingham for a weekend of similar experiences. We went to a Sikh gurdwara, a mosque, a buddhist pagoda, a serbian orthodox church and a black pentecostal church. It was a fascinating but exhausting weekend!

Would love to know the Marian hymn you sung if you can find it.

[karen freeinchristman]

When i was doing the PGCE we went up to Birmingham for a weekend of similar experiences. We went to a Sikh gurdwara, a mosque, a buddhist pagoda, a serbian orthodox church and a black pentecostal church. It was a fascinating but exhausting weekend!

Would love to know the Marian hymn you sung if you can find it.
Next year we will be visiting a mosque during the module about other faiths.

I'll try to find that hymn.

[karen freeinchristman]

Would love to know the Marian hymn you sung if you can find it.
I think it might have been this one:

Hail, Queen of Heaven

Verse 1

Hail, Queen of heav'n, the ocean star.
Guide the wand'rer here below!
Thrown on life's surge we claim thy care.
Save us from peril and from woe.
Mother of Christ, Star of the sea,
Pray for the wanderer. Pray for me.
Verse 2
O gentle, chaste, and spotless Maid,
We sinners make our prayers thro' thee.
Remind thy Son that He has paid
The price of our iniquity.
Virgin most pure, Star of the sea,
Pray for the sinner. Oh, pray for me.
Verse 3 Sojourners in this vale of tears,
To thee, blest advocate, we cry.
Oh, pity our sorrows, calm our fears.
And soothe with hope our misery.
Refuge in grief, Star of the sea,
Pray for the mourner, Oh, pray for me.

[higgs2]

closed for staff review

[No Swansong]

I am re-opening this thread and would like to remind us all that CF rule 1.4 forbids debate on STR by non-Anglicans/Old Catholics. We do however welcome fellowship posts and questions. If there are any questions please contact any moderator.

[RobNJ]

I'll let you know if they wore the Tallit when you tell me what it is!!! ^_^


Karen It's the official name for a "prayer shawl"

[karen freeinchristman]

Karen It's the official name for a "prayer shawl"
Oh, yeah, they did wear those! I thought it was interesting how they would 'kiss' the scrolls by touching their Tallit to the scroll and then the Tallit to their lips.

Another thing someone pointed out to me recently was the similarity of the Jewish custom to have a light above the place where the scrolls are kept, and the Catholic custom of having a light above the reserved blessed Sacrament. The light as a sign of God's presence in those things.

[karen freeinchristman]

Happy Birthday, Rob! :)

[Torah613]

As Rob pointed out, the Tallit (plural Tallis) is the prayershawl worn by men (and in more modern shuls women) during prayer.

The custom you mentioned is because of the risk of profaning the Torah and of touching the name of G-d. Also this is why when it is read from the Bema (the altar looking thing in front of the Ark) the Rabbi uses a slender gold pointer to prevent him/her actually touching the name of G-d as their is much power in that name (also why it is never said).

Sounds like a very interesting and exciting weekend.

Jo