The Military as a Christian's career option: Need advice!

[eNathan]

Hello guys (and gals) :wave:

I'm an 18 year old Christian, finishing up my sienor year in high school. My parents never encouraged college as an option (in fact, it was rather looked down on), but I somehow managed to deduce that education was a good thing and decided that I want to pursue it (as a background, I'm a software engineer / hacker / web designer). The Vice Principle of my school saw tons of potential in me, and encouraged me to look into the US Marine Corps as a career option. At first I didn't take it seriously (basiclly, the "military" is looked down upon in my family). Though I looked into it a bit further, and scored very well on the ASVAB, thus being eligible to get into Data Systems for my MOS. :D

Anyway, my problem is that I cannot make sense of my faith in God, what my family wants of me (or doesn't want, for that matter), what society wants, and what I want for myself. My parents DON'T want me to join the Marines (they see it as a very dark place, and its all about killing; moreover they fear it will turn me into a bad person). Moreover, I don't know if serving in the military is okay in God's sight. Although I won't be in infantry -- the Military is still an entity used to fight wars. Last night I prayed very extensively for the Lord to guide me in this decision, and I had a rather interesting dream (for those of you who don't believe in dreams being divine, ignore this part). In the dream I asked God if I should join the Marines, and a physic appeared in front of me and said "Go for it!" Then she vanished; in the dream, me and my father were in accordance that it was God speaking to us. I woke up afterwards. :scratch:

Anyway, I didn't mean to ramble on or anything. I'm just looking for some advice, because I'm confused in such a situation as this >_>

Thanks in advanced and God bless! :yum:

[OldChurchGuy]

Hello guys (and gals) :wave:

I'm an 18 year old Christian, finishing up my sienor year in high school. My parents never encouraged college as an option (in fact, it was rather looked down on), but I somehow managed to deduce that education was a good thing and decided that I want to pursue it (as a background, I'm a software engineer / hacker / web designer). The Vice Principle of my school saw tons of potential in me, and encouraged me to look into the US Marine Corps as a career option. At first I didn't take it seriously (basiclly, the "military" is looked down upon in my family). Though I looked into it a bit further, and scored very well on the ASVAB, thus being eligible to get into Data Systems for my MOS. :D

Anyway, my problem is that I cannot make sense of my faith in God, what my family wants of me (or doesn't want, for that matter), what society wants, and what I want for myself. My parents DON'T want me to join the Marines (they see it as a very dark place, and its all about killing; moreover they fear it will turn me into a bad person). Moreover, I don't know if serving in the military is okay in God's sight. Although I won't be in infantry -- the Military is still an entity used to fight wars. Last night I prayed very extensively for the Lord to guide me in this decision, and I had a rather interesting dream (for those of you who don't believe in dreams being divine, ignore this part). In the dream I asked God if I should join the Marines, and a physic appeared in front of me and said "Go for it!" Then she vanished; in the dream, me and my father were in accordance that it was God speaking to us. I woke up afterwards. :scratch:

Anyway, I didn't mean to ramble on or anything. I'm just looking for some advice, because I'm confused in such a situation as this >_>

Thanks in advanced and God bless! :yum:

Wow, tough question. On the one hand, there is the non-violence aspect of the NT yet many Christians have been able to justify war through the centuries.

Is there a military base near by? If so, perhaps you could talk with a Chaplain? Are there any veterans you can talk with in your church?

Why the Marines compared to the Air Force, Navy, Army, or Coast Guard?

Sorry I don't have that rock solid 100% correct answer for you. But this is something you must decide for yourself. All I can do is offer some possible avenues to explore as you form your decision.

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy

[Artificial Intelligence]

Hah no it’s not a problem at all for a Christian to join the US Marines, get any MOS you want there.
If you are not so certain about infantry or what not, maybe you have a heart to get a Chaplin MOS there. If I was to join today, that’s the first thing I’d look into at least. That doesn’t mean you would need to stop working on computers, but what ever choice it would be good life experience.

[traderdave]

Congratulations on scoring well on your test. It's great to have attractive options to ponder. It's going to boil down to your personal convictions, but I see the military as a necessary & just career, the same way I see a police officer. It is honorable and brave to voluntarily defend the United States. And I don't believe our armed forces are sent out to commit murder. They defend our interests around the world when they are threatened by another military aggressor. If there was murder in your heart, then I'd say there might be a personal conflict with the heart of God, but hear from Him on it. I would have no problem whatsoever with my kids joining the military, except for my own fear of possibly losing them. I like oldchurchguy's advice to talk to a military chaplain. He would probably give you a perspective that you couldn't get elsewhere. Keep us posted on how things go.

[flyingsum0]

Regardless of your MOS the military is a lifestyle Brother. If you think of it as a job it will cloud your decision making process.

While militray careers span 20-30 years you cant think of it like that, the day you swear in, process and ship off to Basic form the MEPS station, you are no longer a civilian. Many guys, esecially me, never realized the ramifications of that.

With that lifestyle comes decisions that you normally wouldnt be called to make as a civilian and some of them are very difficult from a moral and spiritual stand point. But let it be known, that Jesus is with our troops.

Jesus Loves Soldiers, esspecially NCO's and some of the Offficers *Cough* *Cough* :D JK lol

Three facts as to how I know this:

1. I found Jesus in while in the Amry
2. I found my wife while in the Army
3. I found myself while in the Army

All the riches in the World dont equate to those three "gems" above. Never forget that no matter what you do in the Marines, no matter where you deploy, no matter what decision you make, no matter what mistakes you may make and no matter what "gems" you may find...Jesus will ALWAYS be by your side.

God Bless you Bother and you Brother!

P.S. Forget the Marines become an Army Calvalry Scout WE LEAD THE WAY :D AIRBORNE!!!

lol playing again Marines rock!

[eNathan]

Wow, tough question. On the one hand, there is the non-violence aspect of the NT yet many Christians have been able to justify war through the centuries.

Is there a military base near by? If so, perhaps you could talk with a Chaplain? Are there any veterans you can talk with in your church?

Why the Marines compared to the Air Force, Navy, Army, or Coast Guard?

Ah, I didn't even know what a Chaplain was until now :D I might look into that. I suppose I'm choosing the Marines because it was the first branch that tried to recruit me, and it's the only branch that *gaurentees* my MOS. I know, not good reasons hehe.

Congratulations on scoring well on your test. It's great to have attractive options to ponder. It's going to boil down to your personal convictions

Agreed, one's personal convictions is what every decision comes down to.

Regardless of your MOS the military is a lifestyle Brother. If you think of it as a job it will cloud your decision making process.

While militray careers span 20-30 years you cant think of it like that, the day you swear in, process and ship off to Basic form the MEPS station, you are no longer a civilian. Many guys, esecially me, never realized the ramifications of that.

With that lifestyle comes decisions that you normally wouldnt be called to make as a civilian and some of them are very difficult from a moral and spiritual stand point. But let it be known, that Jesus is with our troops.

Jesus Loves Soldiers, esspecially NCO's and some of the Offficers *Cough* *Cough* :D JK lol

Three facts as to how I know this:

1. I found Jesus in while in the Amry
2. I found my wife while in the Army
3. I found myself while in the Army

All the riches in the World dont equate to those three "gems" above. Never forget that no matter what you do in the Marines, no matter where you deploy, no matter what decision you make, no matter what mistakes you may make and no matter what "gems" you may find...Jesus will ALWAYS be by your side.

God Bless you Bother and you Brother!

P.S. Forget the Marines become an Army Calvalry Scout WE LEAD THE WAY :D AIRBORNE!!!

lol playing again Marines rock!

Yea, I suppose you're right. It is much more of a lifestyle than a career -- and imo -- it's a bit scary knowing that there is *no way out* once you sign that paper or get sworn in. In a way, you're giving your life to the government heh. Though, I would only go in for 4 years -- I'd just use it as a good "jump start" in life. Btw, I'm glad to hear you found Jesus while in the Army. I think Jesus needs more Christians in the military to help reach out. Especially these soldiers in Iraq -- as I can't imagine going through a war without Jesus by my side.
By the way, what do you all think of my dream? :confused:

[Utah Knight]

Personally i searved time in the military but i decided to leave it after due to what i see happening in the world look at Matthew 24 i would suggest searving enouph time for your education thats it because when the time comes no Christins would want anything to do with the government

[flyingsum0]

By the way, what do you all think of my dream? :confused:

In my opinion that was your heart convincing your mind of what to do...

I mainly dream about food so thats my heart convincing my mouth of what to do...

In either situation, if its in your heart, do it...

[prophecystudent]

I spent some 12 years in the army, virtually all of them in combat units.

I was very fortunate in that I never actually ended up in combat. Having said that, I was prepared to go if, and when, they called my name to go to Viet Nam.

I was a believer long before I went in the army and found no conflict with serving in the military and being a believer. I think Christ respects and understands that such things are necessary.

I, too, found my wife while in the service. Still can only attribute that to God. I was 17 when I enlisted and my two wishes (choices) were to go to Germany (from North Idaho) and drive a tank. Got to Germany as promised, didn't get to be a tank driver and that was a blessing.

The army will guarantee your MOS just like the marines, so don't let that issue sway your decision.

Military is a lifestyle and a big change for the enlistee/trainee, no question. If you have never be a very "disciplined" individual you will have some surprises coming.

I would not worry about God, or Christ, looking down on your choice to go into the military. It is an honorable profession, even if you don't stay for the full 20 years for the pension.

Checking with the chaplain is a good idea. I would point out that you cannot enlist to become a chaplain. They are all "officers" and I believe you have to have a degree in theology to qualify.

The army did have chaplain's assistants, tho. You might check into that.

Good luck in any event and God bless.

Fred

[smalltree]

Hi, brother!

Please consider the advice from apostle Paul which says to avoid slavery if possible.

When we look objectively at the rules of the military, enlistment boils down to a voluntary slavery. A soldier is a slave in many ways because: if push comes to shove, you have agreed to do any job, anywhere, for however long they want you. You have agreed to shoot whoever, whenever, and whereever. [And, they may, it seems, even tell you to obey the UN and to fight for causes for which you may, someday, disagree.]

I think it is in Romans. Paul says to seek freedom from slavery - if possible. He says, if you are a slave already, do not worry about it. But it is good to retain one's liberty because: when you are free you can stay with your wife and children; when you are free you can read your Bible and pray when you are burdened down; when you are free, you can speak whatever truth in love which you may feel led to speak.

In the military, there is not really freedom of speech. If the command says you must not speak out against an injustice, then you are desitined for jail if you speak out. If you "witness" when they say it is bad for morale, then you are a trouble-maker.

Please consider those "downside" factors.

But wherever we find ourselves, there is always a chance to walk with Him if we offer ourselves as a living sacrifice... since He bought us.

smalltree

[flyingsum0]

Firstly Welcome to the forums smalltree...its always great to see new faces around here :)

These days most careers can be boiled down to voluntary slavery in one way or another...

In one man's opinion, taking orders and being shipped here and there around the world is slavery... but to another sitting in an office in front of a computer all day is slavery with a different job title...its all a matter of persepctive.

God calls upon each of us to follow different paths in life, each persons path is different, the importnat part is that we're listening when he calls upon us.

God Bless

[jhsmo]

It is ok to serve in todays military as a Christian. I remember a forum I went to back in 2001 on Camp Lejeune about being a Christian and in the Marine Corps at the same time. You have to differentiate betweenprotecting your country and just killing. One of the fastest things you can get caught up in the military is a non-christian lifestyle. This will come at you faster than you will realize. Find a church that fits your doctrine offbase. One thing I did is I found a college campus (70 miles away) that had a christian organization that fit me to give me people to hang out with on the weekends. Talk to the campus minister about joining and their worship time. This might help you just get away from the parties on the weekends. Hang out during the week with your fellow Marines ( if that is what you choose). You dont have to do the bad stuff they will see you as a Christian and that can be your mission field. You can also do free college classes while you are in to maybe work towards your degree ( you just have to buy the book) , just talk to your unit first. Most commanders and units want their Marines to go to college. Get into the GI Bill when you get to boot camp. if you have any questions I can help you on that if you need any. So go into the military if you want to, its good training.

[Nurbz]

What new testement versus support military service? just curious because I can't see christ with an m4 carbine :D

I'm not going to rag on someone for making their own decision for their own reasons, but Christianity is not a warrior cult, and I'm worried about.. mm.. lets say more politicly involved Christians making it look as such.

[jhsmo]

Nurbz, Are you saying it is wrong to serve your country? I love our troops but these are different times then what the Bible days were. we can all still be Christians but there are some people in this world who are not that we have to protect ourselves from. We just all pray that we can see that Jesus is the way but untill we still have to protect our country.

[Artificial Intelligence]

but Christianity is not a warrior cultActually you hit it right on the nose... sort of, Christianity IS a warrior cult...

[Nurbz]

Nurbz, Are you saying it is wrong to serve your country? I love our troops but these are different times then what the Bible days were. we can all still be Christians but there are some people in this world who are not that we have to protect ourselves from. We just all pray that we can see that Jesus is the way but untill we still have to protect our country.
I'm talking about the book of Matthew, chapter 5:

38"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'[g (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=matthew+5&passage2=&passage3=&passage4=&passage5=&version1=31&version2=0&version3=0&version4=0&version5=0&Submit.x=0&Submit.y=0#fen-NIV-23273g)] 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
AND


44But I say to you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them who despitefully use you, and persecute you;45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.


so is it wrong to serve your country? no, but as a christian, you're not following the words of Christ or his example. Don't let corrupt, power hungry politicians dictate your beliefs, dear brother, the mixing of religion and poltics have split and perverted our faith.

Remember Matthew 26:52 after Jesus held back the sword that cuf off the high priest's ear

"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.
Actually you hit it right on the nose... sort of, Christianity IS a warrior cult...
Nope, its not, see the above.

[macrohard]

Well its something to consider, and of course think through.

Your 18, so if you decide to go into the service of the military, its your choice. Your parents may not agree with that decision and are probably more afraid about losing you in a conflict. Truth is, its not always safe to walk down our own streets in this country being a civilian.

The military has its good points and its bad points, but that is true with about every profession you might consider taking up.

Just pray about it, God will lead you where you are suppose to go....

[Artificial Intelligence]

Nope, its not, see the above.Then why is God the “Lord of Hosts”? …better translated the Lord of Armies.

As for “cult” it is a word for someone that follows a person, accepts them as like a god or great spiritual leader. In this case Jesus who is God is the Lord of Armies. So yes, Christianity is in fact a Warrior Cult.

What you refer to is bogus; to claim that joining the military is wrong. Maybe you should think it through before you start a long debate.

[Nurbz]

Then why is God the “Lord of Hosts”? …better translated the Lord of Armies.

As for “cult” it is a word for someone that follows a person, accepts them as like a god or great spiritual leader. In this case Jesus who is God is the Lord of Armies. So yes, Christianity is in fact a Warrior Cult.

What you refer to is bogus; to claim that joining the military is wrong. Maybe you should think it through before you start a long debate.
I said it wouldn't be following christ's word or example, in case you had trouble reading my reply, and gave quotes, which are direct and without need of any sort of interpretation. If he goes that way I won't think any less of him, but he asked, and I gave my two cens

[jhsmo]

Nurbz do you live in peaceful community?

[Nurbz]

Yup, and I'm aware of the sacrifice made, before you start getting into "Anti-military, anti-American, terrorist loving whatever" party retorts. If he decides to go with military service then I won't think any different of him, but he asked and I gave my 2-cents

All you care about is that I disagreed with the statement the military is a particularly Christian path, and I get pounced and have words put in my mouth that I think military service is wrong. You disregard anything else I have to say, even Christ's own words in order to make me out as some sort of America hating nut.

This is the danger of mixing politics with religion, and the warrior cult I'm discussing is the belief that might, power, and willingness to use deadly force is honorable , and meekness, kindness, charity, and patience is considered a weakness.

[flyingsum0]

This is the danger of mixing politics with religion, and the warrior cult I'm discussing is the belief that might, power, and willingness to use deadly force is honorable , and meekness, kindness, charity, and patience is considered a weakness.


Personally as a soldier I consider meekness, kindness, charity, and patience some of my greatest strengths... might, power, and willingness to use deadly force are more like unfortunate consequences...

[Artificial Intelligence]

All you care about is that I disagreed with the statement the military is a particularly Christian path, and I get pounced and have words put in my mouth that I think military service is wrong.


Pounce? You probably haven’t seen me "pounce" yet, at least not here and I have no plans to "pounce" here.

Yes, "wrong" as in =
as a christian, you're not following the words of Christ or his example.
soooo... I'm not sure why you are blowing up or on the verge of blowing up, I really have hardly replied to what you said (if at all with what I can say) and currently have less of a motivation to discuss the issue, now.

[Nurbz]

Pounce? You probably haven’t seen me "pounce" yet, at least not here and I have no plans to "pounce" here.

Yes, "wrong" as in =

soooo... I'm not sure why you are blowing up or on the verge of blowing up, I really have hardly replied to what you said (if at all with what I can say) and currently have less of a motivation to discuss the issue, now.
LOL no, not on the verge of blowing up, more annoyed than anything. I post a verse while saying I don't see Jesus holding an assault rifle, and I get replies like I'm suddenly anti-military

[Artificial Intelligence]

I don't see Jesus holding an assault rifleHis sword is more efficient for Him.

[Nurbz]

His sword is more efficient for Him.
he never held a sword or used violence

[Artificial Intelligence]

he never held a sword or used violence
Read Revelation, he does there.
Also his apostles did in fact carry swords and He approved. Jesus was the lamb for the slaughter for His Earthly ministry (which is over), but the Apostles were not lambs for the slaughter, nor am I.

[Nurbz]

Read Revelation, he does there.
Also his apostles did in fact carry swords and He approved. Jesus was the lamb for the slaughter for His Earthly ministry (which is over), but the Apostles were not lambs for the slaughter, nor am I.
but their use would violate the verses I posted, see what I'm trying to get at?

[Artificial Intelligence]

but their use would violate the verses I posted, see what I'm trying to get at?
...and they used them, ears just don't fall off for no reason. Jesus also told them to buy swords, swords are for defense and nothing else. The translation is correct, just misimplied.

[Nurbz]

...and they used them, ears just don't fall off for no reason. Jesus also told them to buy swords, swords are for defense and nothing else. The translation is correct, just misimplied.
and he said those who draw the sword die by the sword

[Artificial Intelligence]

and he said those who draw the sword die by the swordMatthew 26:52 But Jesus said to him, “Put your sword in its place, for all (they*) who take the sword will (then*) perish by the sword. 53 Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels? 54 How then could the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must happen thus?”

Emp added (*)
Yes, they would have died too at that very moment (then), but Jesus was the sacrificial Lamb, not them.

Luke 22:36 Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. 37 For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: ‘And He was numbered with the transgressors.’ For the things concerning Me have an end.”

No contradiction, as I said, simply misimplied, but people take it as total passivism which is never implied. You should always to keep the context in mind, this includes the situation that surrounded the words and actions of the moment. Context is paramount for interpreting the meaning of what is being communicated.



Turn the other cheek simply means do not trade insult for insult, it is nothing to do with physical self-defense. In Israel then, as it still is today, to slap someone is a very big insult, saying f-u is not the worst of insults, slapping someone on the cheek is, there. Jesus said turn the other cheek, if someone slaps you say with their right hand to your left cheek and you turn or offer the other cheek, you move out of the target for a repeated slap causing the person to themselves shift position to strike again. In effect, He is saying, don’t make yourself a target and don‘t simply insult them back. It has nothing to do with a real assault, only insults.

[Nurbz]

And "do not resist an Evil man?" or his instructions against "Eye for an eye"? which means responding with violence to violence or initiating it to begin with

I'm talking about following christ's example and his words, he did not use any sort of violence against anyone when provoked and didn't speak of using it as far as I remember, especially when he spoke about the meek and the peacemakers.

I guess I'm a little over protective of the faith, I'm very skeptical of religious leaders because of so much hypocrisy and corruption, especially when they say God spoke to them or doing something in his name, its almost always brought bad results in the past by the misled and I don't want it to happen again. I can understand about self defence, but initiating it is something I don't think I could be flexible on.

[Artificial Intelligence]

I guess I'm a little over protective of the faith, I'm very skeptical of religious leaders because of so much hypocrisy and corruption, especially when they say God spoke to them or doing something in his name, its almost always brought bad results in the past by the misled and I don't want it to happen again. I can understand about self defence, but initiating it is something I don't think I could be flexible on.So it wasn’t the Christian thing to do to fight against Hitler? When Japan hit us we should have offered San Diego? The many lives sacrificed to save those that were in danger of loosing theirs, not a virtue? Sorry, but going form one end of the spectrum to the opposite end is not sound. If my neighbors life is in danger and I am there to save them and maybe loose mine in the process, you may not think this is a Christian thing to do but it is out of love, no greater love. God bless the US military!
Peace out. [V]

[eNathan]

hahaha I sure enjoyed reading the debate you all got going there :P I can see where everyone is coming from tbo. In the OT, God dealt with other sinful nations through the death of thousands of people. Though, Nubz does have a point that the things have changed in the NT. However, the nessecity for self defense has not changed accordingly. I believe there are two ways to comprimise on the two sides of this debate (argument hehe). The first would be that one must dicern things on a personal-basis and a "lives-at-risk" basis. You shouldn't return evil for evil (you steal from me I steal from you, etc), but if there are evil people in the world -- the situation changes. The United States taking down Hitler's empire thus is not "returning evil for evil", but "saving millions of lives at the cost of sacrificing fewer lives." Is that not a just thing to do? The second would be a famous scripture that I quote often:
James 4:17Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.This scripture leads me to believe that even *if* Christians should not be in the military -- it is not necessarily "evil" perse for someone who doesn't know any better to do so (I'm not saying that is what I believe -- it's merely a theory).

To be honest, I think it just boils down to what God is leading somebody to do. I'm going to pray and seek for God to show me what to do concerning this :P Thanks for your input and support everyone! :tutu:

[Nurbz]

So it wasn’t the Christian thing to do to fight against Hitler? When Japan hit us we should have offered San Diego? The many lives sacrificed to save those that were in danger of loosing theirs, not a virtue? Sorry, but going form one end of the spectrum to the opposite end is not sound. If my neighbors life is in danger and I am there to save them and maybe loose mine in the process, you may not think this is a Christian thing to do but it is out of love, no greater love. God bless the US military!
Peace out. [V]
The US wasn't involved until Japan attacked, then it became a war of self preservation. And you're putting words in my mouth again, I never said anything was 'wrong' just that some things don't seem in line with Christ's words.

[JTLauder]

eNation,

This thread has already spun into a heated argument on this issue, and since I'm not the most qualified person to speak on this matter, I'm not going to touch on it.

I am not going to advocate the military nor saying that I oppose it. I leave that decision to you. Instead, I offer my very limited knowledge advice that if you do seriously consider pursuing the military as a career option, check out all the branches of the military before making a decision.

The Marines probably has the highest profile because of the honor and discipline they command. They command respect just by the uniform alone. But it is first and foremost a combat force. Every Marine's first skill is to be a rifleman. If this is not your goal, this may not be the best option for you.

The Army supplements the fighting but is also responsible for a lot of infrastructure.

If you're interested in computer science, the Air Force and Navy are more technically focused. You might find better learning opportunities for different skills there.

Second, talk to others who are or were in the military and get their insight on the matter. Don't completely trust recruiters because they will put whatever positive spin they can to get you to sign up.

[BrotherOfJesusChrist]

Some soldiers were questioning him, saying, "And what about us, what shall we do?" And he said to them, "Do not take money from anyone by force, or accuse anyone falsely, and be content with your wages." – Luke 3:14

Nurbz I don’t believe you understand Matthew 5 correctly (and I have no interest in explaining them to you, because your posts seem too similar to those on non-Christian forums.) The intention of the military of Christian countries is not to senselessly blunder, kill, and destroy, but it is very honourable. I suggest, like others, you talk with a military chaplain eNathan.

[jhsmo]

eNathan, I was in the Marine Corps, my Bro in law is in the Navy and I have some good friends in the Army. If you need any help or advice feel free to pm me or just ask me any question that you may have in this forum. I dont go to sleep until like 2am so I am usually on the net so any late night advice i can give I will. If you are looking for a skill that will help you in the civilian world then try the military but make sure it fits you. JTLauder was right about the Marines first job is to be a rifleman. There are some jobs that say they are not combat related but you may get assigned to a combay unit. Each branch of service has their own pros and cons and that is something you will have to research. Make sure that the military is right fit for you and it is only 4-5 years deoending on your contract. It has great benefits and just serving your country will make you prouder. If you decide to not make a career out of it you will still have the GI Bill to help you go to college and pursue a career of your choice. Again as I said before, if you do decide to go in, make sure you go to school IT IS FREE TUITION!!!!!!! So just make sure you do ask some guys that were in or are now in and see what they think. You have to remember that this nation is at war so that is something that you have to think about is getting deployed for 6-12 months at a time. Good Luck

[Artificial Intelligence]

The US wasn't involved until Japan attacked, then it became a war of self preservation. And you're putting words in my mouth again, I never said anything was 'wrong' just that some things don't seem in line with Christ's words.Where did I say “wrong” in that post you just responded to? I didn’t say wrong because I realized I was hitting a brick wall there. You don’t seem to think that saying “ as a christian, you're not following the words of Christ or his example.” is synonymous to saying “wrong” i.e. not following the words of Christ or his example… or, doing it another way than what one was instructed to do, that is not “wrong”?

So instead of saying “wrong” I said “not the Christian thing to do” and you somehow interpreted that as “wrong” and said I repeated “wrong” again. But of course there is no other thing to call it by your definition, so by that statement you unwittingly verified my point; that you think it’s wrong. Maybe if you can admit that to yourself; then maybe you can go back to the scriptures you posted in support of the position you presented and realize they were “wrong” as in not in the context to even vaguely support such a position you adopted there.

[DRL]

I was brought up in a church that said do not join the miilitary unless you are drafted. My son was raised in this church also, but I was not really strict about it. When he was reading for himself he loved history and the military. About the age of 12 he asked me why the church taught the way it did. He also wanted to know why God gave him the interests he had, to be in the military. I am sure God put the answer in my mouth because I told him, I do not know. Talk to God about it. So he did and now he is an Air Force Officer. Neither of us belongs to that church any more. So young man, talk to God about it and talk often to Him. I do no know the answer for you. I just know what God did for my son.
God be with you as you live for Him.
DRL aka Diana

[marke]

Hello guys (and gals) :wave:

I'm an 18 year old Christian, finishing up my sienor year in high school. My parents never encouraged college as an option (in fact, it was rather looked down on), but I somehow managed to deduce that education was a good thing and decided that I want to pursue it (as a background, I'm a software engineer / hacker / web designer). The Vice Principle of my school saw tons of potential in me, and encouraged me to look into the US Marine Corps as a career option. At first I didn't take it seriously (basiclly, the "military" is looked down upon in my family). Though I looked into it a bit further, and scored very well on the ASVAB, thus being eligible to get into Data Systems for my MOS. :D

Anyway, my problem is that I cannot make sense of my faith in God, what my family wants of me (or doesn't want, for that matter), what society wants, and what I want for myself. My parents DON'T want me to join the Marines (they see it as a very dark place, and its all about killing; moreover they fear it will turn me into a bad person). Moreover, I don't know if serving in the military is okay in God's sight. Although I won't be in infantry -- the Military is still an entity used to fight wars. Last night I prayed very extensively for the Lord to guide me in this decision, and I had a rather interesting dream (for those of you who don't believe in dreams being divine, ignore this part). In the dream I asked God if I should join the Marines, and a physic appeared in front of me and said "Go for it!" Then she vanished; in the dream, me and my father were in accordance that it was God speaking to us. I woke up afterwards. :scratch:

Anyway, I didn't mean to ramble on or anything. I'm just looking for some advice, because I'm confused in such a situation as this >_>

Thanks in advanced and God bless! :yum:
Why are you confused?

Jesus never gave His followers permission to kill. What is there to be confused about? Read the New Testament of Jesus Christ. You won't find a single example that allows you to harm another human. Don't be confused. Many are called, but few are chosen. If everything Jesus stands for is against harming another person, why in the world would you think you have permission to enter a profession that causes you to stand against the person you profess is your Lord?

Why don't you be a porn star instead? If you are going to ignore His teachings, it would be a heck of a lot more fun than killing people. Don't you think?

I suspect the hypocrites will scream at the suggestion, but you know them by their actions. They think nothing of defending the unwanted and unborn, but think nothing of defending the Bush Administration which is the master abortionist of the wanted children. Why is it OK with them to encourage killing of the wanted children and fight tooth and nail against stopping an unwanted pregnancy. I thought God was in control, not Jerry Falwell.

Yes, God's separating the wheat from the chaff. You can see whom is who by watching actions, not blindly following words and ignoring facts. Birds of a feather flock together. Notice how all of "W" flock are under investigation? Christians wouldn't be in this situation according to the New Testament. These are NOT actions of followers of Jesus.

This is where free choice comes in. Do you follow the teaching of the New Testament or your VP and friends? Hard choice, but only if you want to be among the lost instead of the living.

God Bless.




God bless

[TheLivingWater]

Yes !

Grab a Gun and follow the instructions :

Exo 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.

Good luck

[mont974x4]

There is a diference between murder which is covered in the Ten Commandments and dispensing justice and war.

[TheLivingWater]

There is a diference between murder which is covered in the Ten Commandments and dispensing justice and war.

Exo 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.

Hmm maby i must buy glasses :)
It seams i can see only 10% of what's writen in this commandment from God allmighty.

[flyingsum0]

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e231/flyingsumo/catgun15ni.gif

[TheLivingWater]

This cat must be a true Believer according to mont974x4 !

I can see the " dispensing justice " in her eyes :D :D

[mont974x4]

TheLivingWater,

It's all about context. The Ten Commandments are written to us as individuals. I don't think any of us would advocate murder. However, we do see God calling nations to war in the OT we also see the death penalty as just. If we take the broad definition of kill in Tho Shalt not kill then God Himself called people to sin and we know He didn't do that....and God Himself would be in sin. I KNOW none of us would accept that as truth.

As for the NT, I beleive Romans 13 covers that. The government exists to dispense justice and protect the people and that means war and capital punishment. I know many people believe Christians should not engage in serving in those ways but there is nothing in Scripture that tells us not to. If a person feels stringly against it, then by all means live according to your personal conviction on that issue, however, I beleive you would be wrong to say that others who do serve in such ways are wrong to do so.

[TheLivingWater]

TheLivingWater,

It's all about context. The Ten Commandments are written to us as individuals. I don't think any of us would advocate murder. However, we do see God calling nations to war in the OT we also see the death penalty as just. If we take the broad definition of kill in Tho Shalt not kill then God Himself called people to sin and we know He didn't do that....and God Himself would be in sin. I KNOW none of us would accept that as truth.

As for the NT, I beleive Romans 13 covers that. The government exists to dispense justice and protect the people and that means war and capital punishment. I know many people believe Christians should not engage in serving in those ways but there is nothing in Scripture that tells us not to. If a person feels stringly against it, then by all means live according to your personal conviction on that issue, however, I beleive you would be wrong to say that others who do serve in such ways are wrong to do so.

I don't get it :) you guys write the correct things yet you do not see them yourself.

"God calling nations to war in the OT"

If you belive that ANYONE on this planet has the right to judge who is to Live and who is to Die then you are no different then the terrorists who do exacly that !

Change your mind brother !

[mont974x4]

What were God's instructions to the Isrealites going into the Promised Land? What about David, Gideon, and other OT men who fought wars?

Also, if you read past the Ten COmmandments you will see that judgment and punsihment is just and at times that includes capital punishment.

I wish it weren't necessary but it is...for now.

[bluemarkus]

enathan...

i can see nothing bad in being a follower of jesus christ and serving in the military. some of the most devoted christians in the first centuries were roman soldiers.

there´s both dorks and gentlemen in any unit of any western army (us, australia, europe).

you will learn good lessons for your life there, about other people, about institutions, it´ll be a good experience for your later career.

just be careful, being 18, just barely outta school, don´t sign the big contract over 10 years, the time in there can be really long if you eventually get together with the wrong crowd.

how could a christian nation exist without a christian military ?

many people who are too lazy to fight (and die) for their high living standard, harm people through their talk every other day.

just a few thoughts...

glück ab !

Markus

http://www.bw-online-shop.com/shop/images/artikel/ba403.jpg

[TheLivingWater]

Yes :) serv Jesus by killing people !
Ordered by some person above !
Yes makes sens :)

I order you to kill Iraqys because they are EVIL !

Lol !

[bluemarkus]

false peace is even more abominable than fighting for justice.

it seems in the world that we live in people take everything for granted now.

i know many guys from my military time , although they would not dare to call themselves christians, who have a lot more guts and integrity than most of the cowards that i met in so many churches in the last 3 years.

remember: the fearful and the unbelieving, they will not enter the kingdom of heaven. (book of revelations)

[TheLivingWater]

Fighting for God has nothing to do with Fighting for MR BUSH belives OR MR BINLADENS !
Good luck !

[Lightbearer3]

I would hate to kill anyone, but to defend my country, my family, my freedom....I would, or be killed myself.

When I see the vets from previous wars in their uniforms at Walmart or in a parade my eyes always fill with tears of graditude, oft I will approach them and thank them personally for their sacrifice and courage in time of war. They are men of honor...they did what they were commanded to do.

If we had no defense, no people willing to fight even to the death, our country would not stand very long in the bountiful freedoms we so enjoy.

[Lightbearer3]

Let it be that it is the direction of the Lord and not based on a dream where a fortune teller appears to you. The word of the Lord is always confirmed...there should also be an inner wittness to your spirit that this is God's will for you.

[Tkjjc89]

This is actually a topic on another forum, i'll save myself the time to retype my thought on this. Hopefully, I save a life, by someone not killing another.

I know what Jesus had to say on the subject.
Is this so hard to understand? WOW!
Ok, I'll type this out, and I'll try and make it clear, ok? :hug:

Matthew 5:38
"you have heard it said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH'. 39 But I say to YOU, donot resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him as well."

Now, when someone wants something from you, even to take your life, and wants you to either SUBMIT, or RUN, or FIGHT,,,,OUR Master says STAND TALL, STAND FIRM, and TURN THE OTHER CHEEK. WHY? Because of LOVE! Sounds to me like Jesus would take a beating and even die for what HE believed in. Wait, HE DID!
HE EVEN HAD LEGIONS OF ANGELS AT HIS DISPOSAL. Make our weapons look petty, don't you think?
Doesn't sound weak to me, but I guess it does to you all?


Matthew 5:43
"You have heard it said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.' 44 But I say to you, love your enemies and PRAY for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be SONS OF YOUR FATHER who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on evil and good, and sends rain on righteous and unrighteous. 46 For if you love those that love YOU, what reward do YOU have?

Sounds to me like God wants to be God, and wants His creation to just LOVE everyone and PRAY for those who want to do us harm. I really don't know why it is so hard to understand.

If you kill someone, even if they are the enemy, you have totally destroyed ANY hope of them getting into heaven if THEY aren't saved. This is how I read this.

Even if it means not defending that which I hold dearest, I will not take a life. This life is but a breath anyway, but I am not going to risk eternity for it either. Peace to ALL! :groupray:

[Tkjjc89]

Pretty much sums it up, but let me see if alittle more clarification on this word "kill" is in order, for those interested.

This word "kill" in the Commandment is no different than the word "murder" in Greek text and what Christ taught

ratsach {raw-tsakh'}
1) to murder, slay, kill
a) (Qal) to murder, slay
1) premeditated
2) accidental
3) as avenger
4) slayer (intentional) (participle)=a willing participate
b) (Niphal) to be slain
c) (Piel)
1) to murder, assassinate
2) murderer, assassin (participle)(subst)
d) (Pual) to be killed


Nowhere in this definition, do I see that it is ok for a soldier to kill anyone, much less anyone else for that matter. Even a simple car accident that kills someone, or any other accident that kills, is a cause for repentance. But premeditation, is just that. You thought about it, joined in it, and then subject yourself to it. If you did this after you became a Christian, then how would Christ forgive this? Repentance is the turning around and walking away from sin. Why would you walk in it. Knowingly?

But if a gun is shoved in your hand and you are "forced to kill", you are still the one pulling the trigger, right? Don't pull it)

3 of the Beatitudes included those which pertain to this topic.
Peacemakers, those who have been persecuted for righteousness(those walking True to the Divine Law), and people who insult you for Jesus's sake.

And the very first thing He does, after declaring His ministry, is deal with "murder", starting with the concept, which is anger. Matt 5:21

I pray I help save a life by typing this, and someone does not pull that trigger.:prayer:

[mont974x4]

NO where in Scripture are we told to NOT be a soldier. No where are we told a soldiers capacity or way he serves is limited.


There is a HUGE diference between me facing an individual enemy, say the neighbor who cusses me out and calls me a Bible thumper and carries on all the time trying to start afight and me serving as a soldier in the Army. As a soldier I have seen war and I am thankful I did not have to shoot anyone. However, I swore an oath and that is a serious thing. If I did have to shoot it would be because of necessity not because of a personal afront to myself.


Rom 13:1 Let every soul to the higher authorities be subject, for there is no authority except from God, and the authorities existing are appointed by God,
Rom 13:2 so that he who is setting himself against the authority, against God's ordinance hath resisted; and those resisting, to themselves shall receive judgment.
Rom 13:3 For those ruling are not a terror to the good works, but to the evil; and dost thou wish not to be afraid of the authority? that which is good be doing, and thou shalt have praise from it,
Rom 13:4 for of God it is a ministrant to thee for good; and if that which is evil thou mayest do, be fearing, for not in vain doth it bear the sword; for of God it is a ministrant, an avenger for wrath to him who is doing that which is evil.
Rom 13:5 Wherefore it is necessary to be subject, not only because of the wrath, but also because of the conscience,
Rom 13:6 for because of this also pay ye tribute; for servants of God they are, on this very thing attending continually;



Honestly, I am no longer angry at muslims. I am very well aware of the very real danger they represent but as Avi Lipkin says, "love them, pray for them, but never turn your back on them."

[Tkjjc89]

However, I swore an oath and that is a serious thing.Sure is, read Matt 5:35-37. Jesus didn't seem to like oaths. At least the way I read it. Kinda makes sense, as if you make an oath, you might just have to fullfill them. Good or bad.

2Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

endure hardness=kakopatheo {kak-op-ath-eh'-o}
1) to suffer (endure) evils (hardships, troubles)
2) to be afflicted

I pray you soldiers in the government do not have to kill anyone.

Jesus, I ask that you keep them safe, and bring them home. I ask that your word be manifested to the peoples of the middle east, and bring your witnesses down now to show the Jewish and Muslim people about your everlasting grace and love for us, your creation. I eargerly await your return and look forward to spending eternity with you. I would die for my beliefs, as you know my heart, and I gladly give this life to you. Thank you, and in your precious name, Amen

[bluemarkus]

ok, TKJJC89

i think if you are really serious, then it is time for you to leave your country, and live in a christian commune of another more peaceful country, because you are living in the nation in need of the biggest defense budget worldwide, to protect its interests against the other nations. can this be the lords will ? does it make a difference if you pull the trigger in baghdad or just work at lockheed martin to pay for your kids school fees ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States#Military

can it be christian to live in such a country ?

thoughts over thoughts...

Markus

[TheLivingWater]

NO where in Scripture are we told to NOT be a soldier. No where are we told a soldiers capacity or way he serves is limited.


There is a HUGE diference between me facing an individual enemy, say the neighbor who cusses me out and calls me a Bible thumper and carries on all the time trying to start afight and me serving as a soldier in the Army. As a soldier I have seen war and I am thankful I did not have to shoot anyone. However, I swore an oath and that is a serious thing. If I did have to shoot it would be because of necessity not because of a personal afront to myself.


Rom 13:1 Let every soul to the higher authorities be subject, for there is no authority except from God, and the authorities existing are appointed by God,
Rom 13:2 so that he who is setting himself against the authority, against God's ordinance hath resisted; and those resisting, to themselves shall receive judgment.
Rom 13:3 For those ruling are not a terror to the good works, but to the evil; and dost thou wish not to be afraid of the authority? that which is good be doing, and thou shalt have praise from it,
Rom 13:4 for of God it is a ministrant to thee for good; and if that which is evil thou mayest do, be fearing, for not in vain doth it bear the sword; for of God it is a ministrant, an avenger for wrath to him who is doing that which is evil.
Rom 13:5 Wherefore it is necessary to be subject, not only because of the wrath, but also because of the conscience,
Rom 13:6 for because of this also pay ye tribute; for servants of God they are, on this very thing attending continually;



Honestly, I am no longer angry at muslims. I am very well aware of the very real danger they represent but as Avi Lipkin says, "love them, pray for them, but never turn your back on them."


It's like ???? No where in the scripture are we told to NOT be rapeists ?
Should we be rapeists then ?

hmmm o-o do you know the will of God ?

[Tkjjc89]

ok, TKJJC89

i think if you are really serious, then it is time for you to leave your country, and live in a christian commune of another more peaceful country, because you are living in the nation in need of the biggest defense budget worldwide, to protect its interests against the other nations. can this be the lords will ? does it make a difference if you pull the trigger in baghdad or just work at lockheed martin to pay for your kids school fees ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States#Military

can it be christian to live in such a country ?

thoughts over thoughts...

Markus

I know that I live in the world's main superpower. Trust me, I struggle with this all the time. We don't fight anyone to protect 250 million Americans interest. We fight to protect those who own 98% of the wealth, their interest. Right now it is oil, tomorrow it could be water.
We get attacked on 9-11, and then instead of finding the man and bringing him to justice, we murder 400,000 people, in a different country, that we already had locked down. Doesn't seem to make sense, as wars usually don't. We use those things that hurt the worst in our country as a rallying cry to do that which our leaders expect us to do. It is their agenda, not ours. Kinda like a mouse in a maze.
But to be Christian is to be Christian. Jesus lived under occupation from Rome, as well as the Apostles. I don't see them killing anyone.

I love this country, as it is my inheritance, and my home. It doesn't mean I have to like it though, and what it currently stands for.

[bluemarkus]

that´s a good answer, iron sharpens iron i´d say :)

[dledinger]

Thou shalt not kill.

Does that mean I cannot fend off a murderer who enters my home and attempts to kill me or my family?

If not, then what about defensive military operations?

What about a minor offenseive in support of a large defensive?

LOL.

To the original poster...ask God through prayer.

FWIW, there's a bunch of Christian men and women in our armed forces.

[dledinger]

Hah no it’s not a problem at all for a Christian to join the US Marines, get any MOS you want there.
If you are not so certain about infantry or what not, maybe you have a heart to get a Chaplin MOS there.

The Marines Corps does not have Chaplians, Chaplian's Assisstants, or Religous Planners.

The Chaplians assigned to the Fleet Marine Forces are Navy Officers, and the RP's are Navy Enlisted.

[Tkjjc89]

Thou shalt not kill.

Does that mean I cannot fend off a murderer who enters my home and attempts to kill me or my family?

If not, then what about defensive military operations?

What about a minor offenseive in support of a large defensive?

LOL.

To the original poster...ask God through prayer.

FWIW, there's a bunch of Christian men and women in our armed forces.


You write the commandment, at the top, then laugh when your mind cannot grasp the implications of what it is you wrote. God said, "don't kill"?? Well, can I if..., well can I if... , what about this..., what about that...??

The answer to all of your questions, is yes. I believe you have the right of defense. It is called the Word of God. If that isn't enough, sorry. For Jesus, it was. For his Apostles, it was. For thousands throughout history, it was. If you "feel" more secure in your life, which is but a vapor on this earth, then you do that which is right with you and God. My God says "thou shalt not kill". PERIOD! He says "turn the other cheek".

Jesus never said anything to us, in the NT, and the NC, about the right to kill. He emphasised when talking about killing, you have heard it said, but I say to you even deeper....

But it takes ears to hear, and eyes to see.

[dledinger]

Hang on now....if that's how you interpreted my post, then you interpreted wrong, as your post does not reflect my opinions, nor my intent. Granted, I may have been vague as I do tend to be, but you filled in the blanks with suspiscion and doubt. You do not know me well enough to even begin to surmise my intent...

Please consider....

I laugh not at what I don't understand, but at how we humans try to read into everything.

My questions were not asked to be answered, rather pondered.

My answer to the original poster's question was simple....ask God.

[dledinger]

I have one more thing to contribute....

Thomas W. Bennett and Desmond Doss both served in the military, as non-combatants under consciensious objector status.

Another thing they both have in common is that they were both awarded the Medal Of Honor.

I do beleive it is possible to serve both God, and your Country.

The Marines have a saying..."God, Country, Corps"

It's in that order for a reason.

[Tkjjc89]

Hang on now....if that's how you interpreted my post, then you interpreted wrong, as your post does not reflect my opinions, nor my intent. Granted, I may have been vague as I do tend to be, but you filled in the blanks with suspiscion and doubt. You do not know me well enough to even begin to surmise my intent...

Please consider....

I laugh not at what I don't understand, but at how we humans try to read into everything.

My questions were not asked to be answered, rather pondered.

My answer to the original poster's question was simple....ask God.

Forgive me,
Sorry to be so blunt like that. No, I donot know your intentions, only what I read. Yes, we humans always to put into that which we don't understand, this I know, trust me. This is why, the Word is the ultimate source. The Spirit of Truth will be your guide. :clap:

[Tkjjc89]

I have one more thing to contribute....

Thomas W. Bennett and Desmond Doss both served in the military, as non-combatants under consciensious objector status.

Another thing they both have in common is that they were both awarded the Medal Of Honor.

I do beleive it is possible to serve both God, and your Country.

The Marines have a saying..."God, Country, Corps"

It's in that order for a reason.

I personally don't believe you can serve 2 masters, but that what I read and believe. If a person serves God, there is no need for serving country, and definately no need for armed troops. Not to take anything away form those 2 men, but what would have happened if they just said, No,No.

Our kingdom is not of this earth. I have been born again, not of this world, but in the new one awaiting me.

[dledinger]

No big deal here. I'm guilty of "forum sniping" as well...short posts, that leave a lot to the imagination...LOL.

[AmericanSoldier91]

TKjjc89 i want to ask you a question. If you were alive during the times of WW2 would you stand ideal while nazi germany takes over europe. Do you think Jesus would want you to stand ideal while millions of jews are slaughtered by the nazi's. I think not. Some times you have to kill some people to save others. Sometimes you have to pick up a gun to fight fore what you belive in. In war its eaither kill or be killed. The people you are killing are heartless people who kill civilian without remorse. Now killing civilians is wrong. Let me put it another way. Say you come face to face with a terrorist in Iraq. And you shoot him. By killing him you are saving lives. Now you are probley thinking how is it by taking someones life you are saving lives. If you dont kill that terrorist he/she will kill innocent civilians in the future. By killing terrorist you are preventing the deaths of innocent civilians. I hate to say it but if i had a choice of using a bible or a gun when confronting a terrorist i would choose a gun. These people do not want to be saved. They are killing innocent people in the name of God. There religion is twisted. They belive by sprading faith by the sword. God said " thou shall not murder". Murdering is different then killing for a justified cause. I want you to ponder this question. Would God want you to stand ideal while innocent civilians are being butchard and freedom and liberty is being attacked? I think not.

[tturt]

agree with you Americansoldier91