How much should we emphasise the cross?

[TomUK]

This is sort of a two pronged thread really - let me explain...

You may have noticed that CF has got a new logo. It's a great looking logo and someone (not sure who) has clearly spent a huge ammount of time on it. However a few of us were a little suprised that we have a logo at a Christian site which doesn't include the either or a cross or a crucifix. What are your thoughts on this issue - should the a cross (or crucifix) be a part of our logo?

This also reminds of something i saw on the news i read on good friday about a baptist minister who asked parents not to bring their children to a good friday service as it might be too grisly for them.

Have we become too obsessed with gore and less focused on the Christ who was glorified through the resurrection? Are we emphasising trials and tribulations when we should be emphasing love and compassion?

[Andy Broadley]

First point forst Tom. I agree with you about the cross in the logo. It should be there.

Secondly, I don't think we over focus on the gore at all. Lets never forget what we did to the Son of God.

He did suffer, and it was gory. As someone once said, Christ was not crucified in a Catrhedral between two candles but the town rubbish tip between two thieves.

Thats why The passion of the Christ was so hard to watch for many Christians. And thats why as many Christians as possible SHOULD watch it.

[Andy Broadley]

Started a thread in OBOB on the issue of the cross in the logo.

All votes welcomed.

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=5177719

[higgs2]

I like the new logo. :) I think it's fine not to have a cross in the logo.

[ChaliceThunder]

I think in Eastertide we should look at the empty tomb and not the cross. (I realize there wouldn't be an empty tomb without the cross) But sometimes we get too focussed on atonement and sin, and forget that we have been released from sin and death FOR EVER and the mighty resurrection is a sign of this. Should we wallow in our own unworthiness, or should we let God have the last word on that? The word is LIFE!

In the new logo, the fish remind me of 2 things: it was a symbol of the People of the Way; and it also reminds me that Jesus' resurrection appearances sometimes include breakfast!

[DeoJuvante]

The cross is just one of many symbols of Christianity. I don't think it's essential. And I like the new logo; the one with the bloody nails was disgusting. I don't think that we need to dwell on the manner of Jesus' death.

[Tomoz]

As a slight aside, has anyone read John Stott's "The Cross of Christ"? The first chapter is an amazing exposition of the centrality of the Cross, to the early church and to Jesus' own sense of vocation.

I don't think it should be a competition between the cross and the resurrection - the two go together. However, Paul did say that, when he wanted to go to Corinthian church with a display of God's power, he went proclaiming Christ crucified. Now of course he would have been talking about the resurrection too. But I think the significance is that the Cross is such foolishness, such weakness and shame, that when we proclaim Christ crucified and through that proclamation people actually turn to God, it is God's power that is on display, not human wisdom or lofty words. That is why it always needs to be central in our preaching the gospel.
Of course, the victory of the resurrection can't be left behind either. Again, I think it isn't a competition.

[Simon_Templar]

It would be hard to over emphasize the cross... I trust that humanity could find a way if we tried hard enough.. but it would be difficult.

As for the gore, I think its important for people to understand the cost. I've personally argued with people who actually didn't beleive that Jesus paid much of a price at all. They thought he got off easy.

Further, for me, when I am confronted with the passion and the cross, that, more than anything else reminds me that my life is not my own. It always reminds me that I am not free to live as I choose. It reminds me of the end of Saving Private Ryan. When Tom Hanks is dying and he tells Ryan something to the effect of "Earn this".

I know that we can't earn salvation, and we can't make ourselves worthy of the sacrifice, but at the same time, our lives have been marked by that sacrifice. They can no longer be just any lives.. they must be something more.

[Aymn27]

I think it's fine....it has the fish...as long as they switch it around and make the cross one of the main symbols I've got no beef with it...

[AveMaria]

I'll admit, I was surprised to not see a crucifix or cross in the new logo.

[AngCath]

As far as the logo I'll say that it is very nice, but one of the first things I noticed was the lack of a cross, but that doesn't make it bad.
Concerning the cross in general, it seems that more Christians are trying to have Easter without going through Good Friday.

[karen freeinchristman]

As far as the logo I'll say that it is very nice, but one of the first things I noticed was the lack of a cross, but that doesn't make it bad.
Concerning the cross in general, it seems that more Christians are trying to have Easter without going through Good Friday.
That's an interesting point. I was thinking, in the last couple of weeks of Lent, how difficult it is for me to observe Lent for 40 days, when I am so full of the joy of the resurrection at all times. I mean, I know why we observe it, but it jars against my hopeful outlook. We are resurrection people now, in our very being. 'This is the day of the Lord'! This is me trying to have Easter without going through Lent!...

But the cross, and Good Friday, is something that is unavoidable (IMO) for the Christian life. Because not only is the cross the way of God's reconciliation and redemption for us, it is also an important signpost of what we must encounter in our own Christian journey. Obedience, self-sacrifice, etc. Unavoidable in the life of those seeking to follow Christ.

[brightmorningstar]

I agree with KarenfreeinChristman, in fact I think its crucially important at this time
Because not only is the cross the way of God's reconciliation and redemption for us, it is also an important signpost of what we must encounter in our own Christian journey. Obedience, self-sacrifice, etc. Unavoidable in the life of those seeking to follow Christ.

Jesus has made the way in the cross from death to life. The resurection is the evidence of the victory to that life and the hope of glory, but we have to start with the cross. I think if we miss the message of the cross we have missed the message!!

As to the logo... maybe the cross is better, but the fish can do.

[IowaLutheran]

As far as the logo I'll say that it is very nice, but one of the first things I noticed was the lack of a cross, but that doesn't make it bad.
Concerning the cross in general, it seems that more Christians are trying to have Easter without going through Good Friday.

You are correct. We had about 30 people at our Good Friday Service and over 10 times that many on Easter Sunday.

Its not just because I am a Lutheran that I focus on the cross (maybe you've heard of Luther's theology of the cross). In my seminary studies, the best answer to the problem of "why does God allow evil and pain to occur" is that God became human and suffered with us in order to have a relationship with us.

[DeoJuvante]

As far as the logo I'll say that it is very nice, but one of the first things I noticed was the lack of a cross, but that doesn't make it bad.
Concerning the cross in general, it seems that more Christians are trying to have Easter without going through Good Friday.
But it's Easter. There is a time for everything and now is the time for rejoicing.

[higgs2]

I don't think the cf logo has to embody every possible important theological point to be effective. so while I agree about the importance of the cross, I'm okay with not having one for the Easter logo. And I really like the way the fish personify the site motto of uniting Christians. :)

[higgs2]

And I very much admire the talent of whoever designed it :thumbsup:

[ChaliceThunder]

And I very much admire the talent of whoever designed it :thumbsup:
Ditto!

We are Easter people.

[AveMaria]

I'm still not comfortable with it - around here, the fish is has an association with a particular type of Christian. I realize that this is probably not the case everywhere, but it still makes me feel a bit on edge.

*shrug*

I'm sure it won't be up forever, so I guess I'll deal or just ignore it.

[higgs2]

I'm still not comfortable with it - around here, the fish is has an association with a particular type of Christian. I realize that this is probably not the case everywhere, but it still makes me feel a bit on edge.

*shrug*

I'm sure it won't be up forever, so I guess I'll deal or just ignore it.

Oh, yeah I know what you mean.

[ChaliceThunder]

I would challenge us all to be "fish christians." What could be more open and welcoming than experiencing breakfast on the beach with our Lord? Would not our hearts burn within us?

The symbols are ours for the claiming!

[higgs2]

I would challenge us all to be "fish christians." What could be more open and welcoming than experiencing breakfast on the beach with our Lord? Would not our hearts burn within us?

The symbols are ours for the claiming!

Wonderful post, great thoughts!

[DeoJuvante]

I'm still not comfortable with it - around here, the fish is has an association with a particular type of Christian. I realize that this is probably not the case everywhere, but it still makes me feel a bit on edge.

*shrug*

I'm sure it won't be up forever, so I guess I'll deal or just ignore it.
Really? What kind of Christian is that? It's not really a symbol I've seen very much hereabouts.

[Aymn27]

Really? What kind of Christian is that? It's not really a symbol I've seen very much hereabouts.
one like....well...me....;)

evangelical fundamentalists/biblical literalists mostly...

[DeoJuvante]

one like....well...me....;)

evangelical fundamentalists/biblical literalists mostly...
Oh, OK. Despite not being remotely like that I like the fish. :P

[pmcleanj]

Alas, it seems to me that the big fish is taking a bite out of the little fish.

Maybe that's because he's experiencing breakfast with our Lord.

Maybe the little fish is experiencing due chastisement for heterodoxy.

Maybe it's an example of survival of the fittest.

Maybe engineers push metaphores too far.
:P

[ChaliceThunder]

Alas, it seems to me that the big fish is taking a bite out of the little fish.


:P

OR...

Did the little fish grab the big fish by the lower jaw?

[erin74]

I don't give two hoots about symbols really, but I like that it's blue.

The cross is and should be central to our message. Nothing should threaten the centrality of the cross.

But that has nothing to do with a message board logo.

[Andy Broadley]

A poll running in OBOB revealed 92% support for a cross being incoporated within the cf logo.


The more people who support this, the better chance there is of having it returned to the logo. So please pop by and vote in my pole:)

[DeoJuvante]

A poll running in OBOB revealed 92% support for a cross being incoporated within the cf logo.


The more people who support this, the better chance there is of having it returned to the logo. So please pop by and vote in my pole:)

A self-selecting poll has no statistical value.

[Andy Broadley]

A self-selecting poll has no statistical value.

Not greatly worried about the purity or otherwise of the statistics, simply to be able to demonstrate to Erwin that a great many people want a cross in the logo.:)

[higgs2]

I appreciate the person who designed the lovely logo, and I am finding it nitpicky and disrespectful to that person and to the selection process to be criticizing our current logo, which , after all is a gift. If it is so important to have a cross then this issue should be taken up for the *next* logo, and not trying to change what we have been given. THat always is hurtful and usually causes hard feelings. It gets ugly. I am embarrassed that we have been given this gift of art and are acting so completely ungrateful. <hangs head in shame> :(

[Iosias]

I like the new logo. :) I think it's fine not to have a cross in the logo.

:thumbsup:

[Polycarp1]

A poll running in OBOB revealed 92% support for a cross being incoporated within the cf logo.


The more people who support this, the better chance there is of having it returned to the logo. So please pop by and vote in my pole:)
Not quite true, brother. As you note, and should be recognized, it does not provide a valid statistical cross-section of a "statistical univere" -- in this case, CF membership.

What it does provide is a valid sampling of those who feel strongly enough to incorporate themselves in the self-selected populace that choose to vote on it.

Sometimes, though not always, this is an important criterion. If only 10% of the public choose to vote on an issue, but of those 10%, it is 80%:20% in favor of the proposition voted on, it's an indication that, most likely,
of every 100 people, 90 are disinterested in the results and happy either way, 8 are strongly in favor, and 2 are opposed. Hence, accommodating the 8% for whom it is an issue worth making a fuss about will probably have 98% support.

[karen freeinchristman]

I think it's fine the way it is. :)

[DeoJuvante]

I think it's stupid to dislike the logo just because it doesn't have a cross in it. Aren't there more important things to worry about? Anyway, I like the logo.

[Ahazmat]

This is sort of a two pronged thread really - let me explain...

You may have noticed that CF has got a new logo. It's a great looking logo and someone (not sure who) has clearly spent a huge ammount of time on it. However a few of us were a little suprised that we have a logo at a Christian site which doesn't include the either or a cross or a crucifix. What are your thoughts on this issue - should the a cross (or crucifix) be a part of our logo?

This also reminds of something i saw on the news i read on good friday about a baptist minister who asked parents not to bring their children to a good friday service as it might be too grisly for them.

Have we become too obsessed with gore and less focused on the Christ who was glorified through the resurrection? Are we emphasising trials and tribulations when we should be emphasing love and compassion?
I rather like the idea of the opened tomb as a symbol. That is the point right? Jesus got up instead of being dead. That proves that he is not just another fake godman.