Why is the Sabbath important to God?

[reddogs]

All the other commandments we can pretend to follow, but the Sabbath stands out, it is a sign, the standard of God. Where he draws his battle line, the true believers put on the armor and choose God, the decieved put on the "traditions" of men and the false doctrines of the evil one who raises his banner of Baal's day of worship , and pagan sun worship.

The Sabbath cannot be hidden under a bushel, you can hide your idols, swear against God out of hearing of others and love other gods such as sex, money, fame... and no one would know. But like Daniel praying at his window for all to see the Sabbath is a clear display of our love for God when we worship him.

So the battle lines are forming, the banner is raised, whose side will you be on. Dont be decieved....

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times, some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons. 1 Timothy 4:1 NKJV


And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:" Revelation 14:9-10 The Bible clearly says that those who worship the beast, and its very clear what that entails, will be lost.


Here is a excellent description of the Biblical Sabbath by Ángel Manuel Rodríguez:
"The Adventist view of the Sabbath commandment as designating the seventh day as a day of rest required by God for fellowship and communion with Him is based on the facts that according to the Bible it originated during creation week. It was observed by Jesus and the apostles and there is no evidence in the biblical text to support the claim that the commandment was transferred from the seventh day to the first day of the week.


A.Gen 2:1-3 and the Sabbath
According to the biblical creation narrative the Sabbath originated at the end of creation week as an expression of the divine will (Gen 2:1-3). It is common among Protestants to argue that Gen 2:1-3 does not contain a commandment addressed to humans but that it simply describes what God did on the seventh day. The argument is that the Sabbath as a commandment was given to the Israelites through the covenant; it is a Jewish law. Here we agree with Dies Domini: "If the first page of the Book of Genesis presents God's 'work' as an example for man, the same is true of God's 'rest.'"[3] That conclusion can be supported on several different grounds.
1.Humans as the Image of God and the Sabbath
The creation narrative describes humans as unique intelligent creatures within a world brought into existence by God. That singularity is located in the fact that they were created in the image of God (1:27). They were to reflect the actions of God, the character of God and to represent Him within the rest of creation. The idea that God rested from His works ascribes to God a human need in order to demonstrate to humans how He planned to supply it for them.[4] The anthropomorphic language clearly points to God's concern for humans who do not only need to work but also to separate a particular time to enjoy deep personal communion with the Creator. The divine action-God's rest-reveals His willingness to join humans in fellowship during the seventh day. It is the Creator, not the creature, who determines the time of rest.
Adventist theologian Hans K. LaRondelle stated, "Without the divine communion and fellowship on the seventh day, without man's entering into God's rest on that day, the whole creation would be cut off from its Maker and necessarily have to find its purpose and sense in itself. Then God's rest indeed would rather be the cryptic indication of God's return to the aseity (the absolute self-existence) of the inner glory of His being and existence, leaving man and the world to themselves." He adds, "God's rest then means His ceasing the work of creation in order to be free for the fellowship with man, the object of his love, for the rejoicing and celebration of His completed work together with his son on earth, the imago Dei, his festive partner."[5]
2.God Blessed the Sabbath
In the creation narrative God is described as blessing the seventh day. That probably means, as suggested by the use of the same verb in Exod 20:11, that "through it he [God] mediates the divine blessing to the person who keeps it."[6] The blessing itself is undefined and that has led some to conclude that what defines it is the next verb in the sentence, God "sanctified it."[7] That is to say, the blessing is to be understood in terms of holiness in the sense of separation and election.[8] But the combination of the two verbs found in the text is unique in the Old Testament and unless there are very compelling reasons to consider them to be synonyms it is better to keep them apart as expressing two different actions.[9] If the verb "to bless" (brk) expresses the basic idea of bestowing benefits upon something or someone,[10] then when God blessed the Sabbath He bestowed it with benefits that would be enjoyed by those who will keep it. A day that is not blessed is a day deprived of positive content for human beings (Jer 20:14).[11] The blessing pronounced by God on the seventh day was not for the benefit of God but for those who where present with Him, enjoying communion and fellowship with him, within the fraction of time called seventh day.
3.God Declared Holy the Seventh Day
The declaration of the seventh day as holy time is intriguing. The Bible contains rituals for the sanctification of persons, things and places but there is no ritual prescribed for the sanctification of the Sabbath. Only the creation story informs us that its holiness is the result of a divine declaration. Throughout the rest of the Old Testament the holiness of that day is presupposed. For the Old Testament writers as well as for the people of God the creation Sabbath was the same as the seventh day Sabbath mentioned in the commandment. Humans did not declare that day holy but they were responsible to keep it holy, to preserve its holiness, by obeying the commandment. That particular day participates in a unique way of the holiness of God because He rested on it and endowed it with holiness.
The holiness of the Sabbath is not described in the text as a provisional status that was to wear out at the end of the day. There is no de-sanctification ritual for the seventh day declared holy by God during creation week. By sanctifying it God placed it permanently apart for a particular religious use. Since according to the creation narrative Adam and Eve had been created on the sixth day, they experienced the holiness of the seventh day with God. When the Creator made the seventh day holy by separating it from the six workdays He "provided a gift for the whole of mankind for all time. The person who keeps the seventh-day Sabbath holy follows the Exemplar's archetypal pattern (Gen. 2:3) and meets with Him on that day of rest."[12] It is important to emphasize that "the seventh day is the very first thing to be hallowed in Scripture, to acquire that special status that properly belongs to God alone. In this way Genesis emphasizes the sacredness of the Sabbath. Coupled with the threefold reference to God resting from all his work on that day, these verses give the clearest of hints of how man created in the divine image should conduct himself on the seventh day."[13] ..."

http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/books/rest_restlessness/

http://www.adventistbiblicalresearch...tholic2002.htm (http://www.adventistbiblicalresearch.org/documents/sabbath-catholic2002.htm)

[Eila]

All the other commandments we can pretend to follow, but the Sabbath stands out, it is a sign, the standard of God. Where he draws his battle line, the true believers put on the armor and choose God, the decieved put on the "traditions" of men and the false doctrines of the evil one who raises his banner of Baal's day of worship , and pagan sun worship.

The Sabbath cannot be hidden under a bushel, you can hide your idols, swear against God out of hearing of others and love other gods such as sex, money, fame... and no one would know. But like Daniel praying at his window for all to see the Sabbath is a clear display of our love for God when we worship him.

The Sabbath was a sign of the old covenant, not the new covenant. I know many people who pretend to follow the Sabbath. They may do all the Sabbathy things that their tradition tells them to do, but the doing is not from the heart but from obligation or tradition. Keeping the Sabbath does not reveal anything about the state of the heart. The Pharasees and teachers of the law kept the Sabbath, yet what did Jesus say about them?

What significance is there to the Holy Spirit coming on a Sunday? Acts 2. The church was started on what you call a pagan day. Do you quench all thoughts or worship of God on Sunday?

[Jon0388g]

The Sabbath was a sign of the old covenant, not the new covenant. I know many people who pretend to follow the Sabbath. They may do all the Sabbathy things that their tradition tells them to do, but the doing is not from the heart but from obligation or tradition. Keeping the Sabbath does not reveal anything about the state of the heart. The Pharasees and teachers of the law kept the Sabbath, yet what did Jesus say about them?

What significance is there to the Holy Spirit coming on a Sunday? Acts 2. The church was started on what you call a pagan day. Do you quench all thoughts or worship of God on Sunday?

That's just the same as a Pentecostal/Baptist whoever stressing the importance of Jesus' resurrection on a Sunday. Of course, these are significant events, however they are not Biblically recognised as designated commands. The Sabbath is.

Also, it was Papal Rome who played a major part in changing times and laws, just as Daniel prophecied. Who you choose to obey is your choice.

Jon

[Jimlarmore]

If the Sabbath had been fulfilled and became unecessary to observe after Christ death, burial and resurrection there would have been books written about it in the new testament. However, we see Paul and all of the other apostles faithfully observing it all the way to the end of the Bible.

Not one of the ten commandments were fulfilled by the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, not one.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

[freeindeed2]

Not one of the ten commandments were fulfilled by the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, not one.
If that were true then not one 'jot or tittle' has disappeared from the WHOLE law (not just the basic 10), and those who wish to be under the law must keep it all perfectly in order to satisy it's requirements. (Of course, those under the law will be condemned!)

[Eila]

Shadow

Slavery in EgyptReality

Slavery to sinShadow

Death of first born in Egypt. In order to enter freedom a death needed to occur.Reality

Death of the Son of God. In order to enter into freedom His death needed to occur.Shadow

Crossing the Red Sea into freedomReality

Resurrection - the resurrection took place on the anniversary of the crossing of the Red Sea into freedom.Shadow

50 days after the crossing of the Red Sea God entered into a covenant with the Israelites and gave them the 10 words of the covenant. The Israelites were to obey all the laws.Reality

50 days after the resurrection of Jesus the Holy Spirit descended on believers in a powerful way and people were able to enter into the covenant between God the Father and the Son of Man through belief in Jesus. Believers are to obey the leading of the indwelling Holy Spirit.Shadow

3000 people died for worshiping the golden calf. The terms of the old covenant brought death.Reality

3000 people became born again (Acts 2:41). The terms of the new covenant brought life.Shadow


Sabbath rest from laborsReality


Resting in Christ's complete work
Praise God for the reality - Christ:clap: :clap:

[reddogs]

Here is a good explanation why the Sabbath is important to God on the day He set forth:

...If the Bible says we are to keep the Sabbath then why wouldn't you want to do it? Are we as christians trying to figure out how much we can get away with and still be right in God's eyes. I don't consider the Sabbath a 'little thing' but isn't it the 'little things' that we do that really show our love to someone, including God. Absolutely!

As for the argument that I can rest any day or why not everyday. It's a cheap argument in the sense that God does not require this of us...plain and simple. The other six days are to work, earn a living. There may be chores we have to do...work on the car, paint the house, spending other time with the wife and kids doing things not appropriate on the Sabbath...maybe some games in the backyard, etc... But the Sabbath is the 7th day and God wants us to rest from our labors and everyday cares of the world so we can have guaranteed time for God and our families. The Sabbath isn't for just 'resting' - meaning lying around and doing nothing. Anyone who does that every Sabbath is in a slump and needs to pray about it.

Also we should find time on the other six days to devote to God, pray and study his word, but because we tend to work long hours we don't have much time as we would like. But the Sabbath we should have no excuse, God gives us a gift of the whole day to pray and study and read God's word in abundance, and give glory and praise God in song and fellowship....

[djconklin]

Excellant work reddogs!

[Eila]

Here is a good explanation why the Sabbath is important to God on the day He set forth:

...If the Bible says we are to keep the Sabbath then why wouldn't you want to do it?


If the Bible says you are to wear tassels on your clothing why wouldn't you want to do it?

[djconklin]

That had ceremonial significance and is not applicable to the Church today.

[Eila]

That had ceremonial significance and is not applicable to the Church today.

The tassels were significant in that it helped the COI to remember the commandments

Numbers 15 "38 “Speak to the children of Israel: Tell them to make tassels on the corners of their garments throughout their generations, and to put a blue thread in the tassels of the corners. 39 And you shall have the tassel, that you may look upon it and remember all the commandments of the LORD and do them, and that you may not follow the harlotry to which your own heart and your own eyes are inclined,"

You say the commandments are still applicable, but the reminder was not?

How can the reminder be ceremonial, but the Sabbath not?

What part of the "reminder of commandments" was fulfilled in Christ so it is not applicable to us today?

[reddogs]

I think I can remember the Commandments without 'tassels'........:wave:

Why do you try to evade the truth of Gods basis of His eternal moral law, it is His love, so that we love God and it lead us to eternal life......

25And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. 28And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. Luke 10:25-28

Mark 12:29-30 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=48&chapter=12&verse=30&version=9&context=verse)
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

John 14:15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=50&chapter=14&verse=15&version=9&context=verse)
If ye love me, keep my commandments.
John 14:14-16 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=50&chapter=14&verse=14&end_verse=16&version=9&context=context) (in Context) John 14 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=50&chapter=14&version=9&context=chapter) (Whole Chapter)
John 14:21 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=50&chapter=14&verse=21&version=9&context=verse)
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
John 14:31 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=50&chapter=14&verse=31&version=9&context=verse)
But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.
John 14:30-31 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=50&chapter=14&verse=30&end_verse=31&version=9&context=context) (in Context) John 14 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=50&chapter=14&version=9&context=chapter) (Whole Chapter)
John 15:10 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=50&chapter=15&verse=10&version=9&context=verse)
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

[Eila]

I think I can remember the Commandments without 'tassels'........:wave:

What would you say to someone who said "I think I can not kill someone without the commandments"?

So how do you decide that it is not longer applicable to you? It deals directly with the commandments.

[reddogs]

Without a indicator of Gods will, like the commandments to direct us to love, to love God and your fellowman, man ends up with Soddom and Gommorah and you would be in their killing, raping, and other things that we shall not mention........

Love is God wants to share with us and we with Him.....

[Eila]

Without a indicator of Gods will, like the commandments to direct us to love, to love God and your fellowman, man ends up with Soddom and Gommorah and you would be in their killing, raping, and other things that we shall not mention........

So you are saying you can do away with the tassels because you can remember the commands without them? But you cannot do away with the commandments because you cannot keep them unless you have them?

What is the rationale for being able to do away with part of God's instructions? God specifically told Moses to tell the people to wear tassels.

What part of a reminder of the commandments was fulfilled at the cross so it is not applicable to us today? Or can we decide which parts of the law we still need today?

[reddogs]

You do not have to do anything except to Love God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: eternal life comes from this. You are straining at a gnat (tassels), and swallowing a camel (rejecting what directs you to loving God).

[Eila]

You do not have to do anything except to Love God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: eternal life comes from this. You are straining at a gnat (tassels), and swallowing a camel (rejecting what directs you to loving God).

So the tassels were unimportant? How do you decide what commands from God are unimportant?

What part of the reminder of commandments was fulfilled? How do you know that you are not to wear tassels anymore?

I am not commanded to love God. Under the old covenant love toward God was commanded. Now we love Him because He first loved us. His love has been shed abroad in our hearts. My love for God is not the result of a command, but simply because of His love for me. I am His child, not a servant.

[reddogs]

Love God first with all your heart, from this all other things come to you including the Holy Spirit which leads you to a understanding of Gods truth.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=53&chapter=2&verse=14&version=9&context=verse)
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Mark 12:33 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=48&chapter=12&verse=33&version=9&context=verse)
And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and tolove his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.

Luke 11:42 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=11&verse=42&version=9&context=verse)
But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

John 8:42 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=50&chapter=8&verse=42&version=9&context=verse)
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

John 14:15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=50&chapter=14&verse=15&version=9&context=verse)
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

[Eila]

Love God first with all your heart, from this all other things come to you including the Holy Spirit which leads you to a understanding of Gods truth.

I am assuming you would say that you love God and are led by the Holy Spirit and you are given an understanding of God's truth. With that in mind can you explain how you can disregard the command to wear tassels as a reminder of the commandments?

You say the commandments are still applicable, but the reminder is not?

How can the reminder be ceremonial, but the Sabbath not?

What part of the "reminder of commandments" was fulfilled in Christ so it is not applicable to us today?

Would you say there is a problem with people remembering to keep God's commandments? How does that relate to the reminder God gave in the tassels?

[reddogs]

Sister, I going to say this with all the love I can, but you have spiritually blindness. Gods Law is to love God and your fellow man, the ceremonial law was to point to the commandments and Jesus who fullfilled them. But Gods moral law is eternal, nothing does away with that....

[ricker]

Sister, I going to say this with all the love I can, but you have spiritually blindness. Gods Law is to love God and your fellow man, the ceremonial law was to point to the commandments and Jesus who fullfilled them. But Gods moral law is eternal, nothing does away with that....

Hi Reddogs! Can you point us to all the bible verses in the new testament, or even the old, mentioning "eternal moral law"? I don't want vague implications or coincidenses here. If there is such a thing I would like to see it in the Bible, and what exactly it is. Thanks in advance. God bless! Ricker

[reddogs]

When you take out parts of the Bible you dont like, evil is not averted. Either God and His Son tell the same Law of Love as given orally to Adam at creation and which was written clearly in the Commandments, and declared by Jesus for us to follow or they are not one as scripture tells us.......

John 10:30 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=50&chapter=10&verse=30&version=9&context=verse)
I and my Father are one.

[ricker]

When you take out parts of the Bible you dont like, evil is not averted. Either God and His Son tell the same Law of Love as given orally to Adam at creation and which was written clearly in the Commandments, and declared by Jesus for us to follow or they are not one as scripture tells us.......

John 10:30 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=50&chapter=10&verse=30&version=9&context=verse)
I and my Father are one.

So you can't come up with any. The Bible says the law was introduced 430 years after Abraham and only untill Jesus came.
7What I mean is this: "The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.
19What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come."

Do we know what law Paul was talking about? Sure. In the next chapter he says:
" 21Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise.
24These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children....
28Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29At that time the son born in the ordinary way persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. 30But what does the Scripture say? "Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son."[c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=55&chapter=4&version=31#fen-NIV-29146c)] 31Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman."

Reddogs, get rid of the slave woman standing for mt. siani and its old covenant (the ten), and live in Christian liberty guided by the Holy Spirit shown to us in the new covenant Jesus gave us! God bless! Ricker

[reddogs]

So you say we could kill until the Law showed up, you are wrong my friend. It is what defines sin and God gave Adam a understanding of His Law and this was passed on to Abraham, Noah, Moses, David, Paul, to you.....

Now whether you choose to accept or reject what defines sin is up to you............

Mark 7:9 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=48&chapter=7&verse=9&version=9&context=verse)
And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

I could quote you all the verses in the Bible, but would it give you eternal life, no. But if you love Him and follow what Jesus Christ says if you love Him, it will lead to eternal life.

John 14:15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=50&chapter=14&verse=15&version=9&context=verse)
If ye love me, keep my commandments.


18And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
19And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
20Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother. 21And he said, All these have I kept from my youth 22Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

He did not love God or his fellowman enough to give them the trinkets of his wealth.......

[Eila]

Sister, I going to say this with all the love I can, but you have spiritually blindness. Gods Law is to love God and your fellow man, the ceremonial law was to point to the commandments and Jesus who fullfilled them. But Gods moral law is eternal, nothing does away with that....

How does what you call the ceremonial law point to the ten commandments? What is your definition of "ceremonial law"? Were the tassels part of the ceremonial law, and if so how is wearing tassels a ceremony?

Numbers 15 "37 Again the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 38 “Speak to the children of Israel: Tell them to make tassels on the corners of their garments throughout their generations, and to put a blue thread in the tassels of the corners. 39 And you shall have the tassel, that you may look upon it and remember all the commandments of the LORD and do them, and that you may not follow the harlotry to which your own heart and your own eyes are inclined, 40 and that you may remember and do all My commandments, and be holy for your God. 41 I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: I am the LORD your God.”

How did Jesus fulfill the command to remember the commandments?

Can you show me Biblically how you are not required to wear tassels anymore?

[ricker]

I'm trying to be patient here.

So you say we could kill until the Law showed up, you are wrong my friend. It is what defines sin and God gave Adam a understanding of His Law and this was passed on to Abraham, Noah, Moses, David, Paul, to you.....

Now whether you choose to accept or reject what defines sin is up to you............

"19What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come."
I guess you can argue with Paul if you want to. There was obviously sin before Siani, and obviously the ten and other laws were added. To say it was the same laws added than was before makes no sense at all.

(http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=48&chapter=7&verse=9&version=9&context=verse)Mark 7:9 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=48&chapter=7&verse=9&version=9&context=verse)
And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
(http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=48&chapter=7&verse=9&version=9&context=verse)
"5So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus,... 8You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men."
Jesus was talking to the Pharisees and the teachers of the law. He didn't have much good to say about the teachers of the law anywhere in the gospels.


(http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=50&chapter=14&verse=15&version=9&context=verse)John 14:15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=50&chapter=14&verse=15&version=9&context=verse)
If ye love me, keep my commandments
(http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=50&chapter=14&verse=15&version=9&context=verse).

How does first John define Christ's commandments? "
21Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22and receive from him anything we ask, because we obey his commands and do what pleases him. 23And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

I gotta run. God bless you as we search for Gods truth! Ricker

[reddogs]

Patience wont help you if you fight against God, His Love from which His Laws, Commandments, Precepts come from is eternal. To Love God and your fellow man is the eternal mordal law, that is why Jesus asked the lawyer to get that answer, a understanding which comes which comes with a relationship with Him.

Now lets start, God because of His Love for man gave a understanding of sin and His will to Adam which included the Sabbath. When His Son Jesus Christ came He repeated the same understanding and said to keep following that knowledge as it led to eternal life. You must first Love God with all your might, and heart as it will lead to us to want eternal life with Him who is Jesus Christ and ask for the grace to cover your sins and the Holy Spirit to indwell so it can transform you from your carnal fallen nature.......

I dont think any true believer would find a reason to reject what the scripture plainly puts before us....

[ricker]

Patience wont help you if you fight against God, His Love from which His Laws, Commandments, Precepts come from is eternal.
Not all God's Laws, Commandments, and Precepts are eternal. How about the tassel thing among many others?


To Love God and your fellow man is the eternal mordal law, that is why Jesus asked the lawyer to get that answer, a understanding which comes which comes with a relationship with Him.

That exchange showed keeping the law couldn't save him.

Now lets start, God because of His Love for man gave a understanding of sin and His will to Adam which included the Sabbath.
This is not Biblical. The Bible says plainly the Sabbath was given only to the Israelites.
Exodus 31 says the Sabbath was a sign given to the Israelites:"

12 Then the LORD said to Moses, 13 "Say to the Israelites, 'You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the LORD, who makes you holy."
14 " 'Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it must be put to death;

Dueteronomy 5 says the covenant (the ten) wasn't given earlier:
"2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 It was not with our fathers that the LORD made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today. 4 The LORD spoke to you face to face out of the fire on the mountain."

Nehemiah 9 clearly says when the Sabbath was made known to Israel:"13 "You came down on Mount Sinai; you spoke to them from heaven. You gave them regulations and laws that are just and right, and decrees and commands that are good. 14 You made known to them your holy Sabbath and gave them commands, decrees and laws through your servant Moses."
I have provided texts saying the Sabbath was given at Sinai as a sign to the Israelites and that it wasn't given previously. These are not out of context and are quite plain. If you can find any scripture refuting this by saying the Sabbath was given as a law or command before Moses, lets see them.

Wishful thinking to try to make the Bible agree with Ellen White won't change the Word of God.


When His Son Jesus Christ came He repeated the same understanding and said to keep following that knowledge as it led to eternal life. You must first Love God with all your might, and heart as it will lead to us to want eternal life with Him who is Jesus Christ and ask for the grace to cover your sins and the Holy Spirit to indwell so it can transform you from your carnal fallen nature.......

I dont think any true believer would find a reason to reject what the scripture plainly puts before us

Amen! God bless! Ricker

[Cribstyl]

Not all God's Laws, Commandments, and Precepts are eternal. How about the tassel thing among many others?


That exchange showed keeping the law couldn't save him.


This is not Biblical. The Bible says plainly the Sabbath was given only to the Israelites.
Exodus 31 says the Sabbath was a sign given to the Israelites:"

12 Then the LORD said to Moses, 13 "Say to the Israelites, 'You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the LORD, who makes you holy."
14 " 'Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it must be put to death;

Dueteronomy 5 says the covenant (the ten) wasn't given earlier:
"2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 It was not with our fathers that the LORD made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today. 4 The LORD spoke to you face to face out of the fire on the mountain."

Nehemiah 9 clearly says when the Sabbath was made known to Israel:"13 "You came down on Mount Sinai; you spoke to them from heaven. You gave them regulations and laws that are just and right, and decrees and commands that are good. 14 You made known to them your holy Sabbath and gave them commands, decrees and laws through your servant Moses."
I have provided texts saying the Sabbath was given at Sinai as a sign to the Israelites and that it wasn't given previously. These are not out of context and are quite plain. If you can find any scripture refuting this by saying the Sabbath was given as a law or command before Moses, lets see them.

Wishful thinking to try to make the Bible agree with Ellen White won't change the Word of God.


Amen! God bless! Ricker

:thumbsup:You're right Ricker "It is written" Those texts speak for themselves vs what people "reason" in error about where the bible is silent.

keep up the fight
CRIB

[reddogs]

God made a covenant or understanding of His will with those that chose to follow His will, as Adam told and gave understanding to the others but when he died then it as usual with man began to fade from memory or be distorted. But Abraham, Enoch, Noah, etc.. knew about it or how could they believe and follow....

Now I, with the most beautiful words, rational or logic or even verses cannot convince you of any of this as you have hardened your hearts against it, but the Holy Spirit can, as it comes from the same source and gives us comprehension of Gods love and His will, so you must study and pray for understanding on this.

But it all hangs on Gods love and that is where you must start

[Eila]

God made a covenant or understanding of His will with those that chose to follow His will, as Adam told and gave understanding to the others but when he died then it as usual with man began to fade from memory or be distorted. But Abraham, Enoch, Noah, etc.. knew about it or how could they believe and follow....


Do God's commands last forever? If so, please explain why you don't wear tassels. If not, then please explain why you don't wear the reminder of the commandments.

Do you think God in His love gave the Israelites the command to wear tassels?

[reddogs]

We follow Gods Law of love, Love God and love your fellow man as Jesus Christ made clear....

....but why should I tell you when you can read it in scripture, study and find what it says on eternal life and how it relates to why we should Love God and our fellow man.

I've got a bit of work so I will leave you for now...

[Eila]

We follow Gods Law of love, Love God and love your fellow man as Jesus Christ made clear....

....but why should I tell you when you can read it in scripture, study and find what it says on eternal life and how it relates to why we should Love God and our fellow man.

I've got a bit of work so I will leave you for now...


Yes I do think you should answer the questions. You said

...If the Bible says we are to keep the Sabbath then why wouldn't you want to do it? Are we as christians trying to figure out how much we can get away with and still be right in God's eyes. I don't consider the Sabbath a 'little thing' but isn't it the 'little things' that we do that really show our love to someone, including God. Absolutely!

The Bible also says to wear tassels, but the only reason you can give me as to why you don't wear the tassels is because you can remember the commandments without them. But the tassels are a command from God and found in the Bible. Are you trying to figure out how much you can get away with and still be right in God's eyes? Is any command from God a little thing? So you condemn non-Sabbatarians as trying to figure out how much they can get away with, but in the same time you condemn yourself because you are (by your explanation) dismissing the command to wear tassels. So what is the rational for no longer wearing tassels? Where does the Bible say you are not to wear tassels anymore? By the rational you gave you could also dismiss the command to not kill because you don't need that command in order to not kill someone.

[Cribstyl]

The sabbath was important because the people that God promised to raise up a seed, were given to idolatry. They worshipped other Gods. They had many idols after God set them free from Egypt with an outstretched hand.
God did many miracles among them but were stiffneck people according to God.
The sabbath was given to prove if they would follow God's commands or not.
There is nothing moral about the sabbath no matter what arguments are made.

The sabbath commandment was given to prove that they worshipped the Creator of heaven and earth.

Resting on the seventh day was a sign given to prove that their God is the creator of Heaven and earth.

If in the bible, it says that sabbath is a sign, why overlook that fact.:scratch:

If in the bible, it does not say anywhere that the sabbath is a moral law. Why raise that argument from silence. :scratch:

[ricker]

God made a covenant or understanding of His will with those that chose to follow His will, as Adam told and gave understanding to the others but when he died then it as usual with man began to fade from memory or be distorted. But Abraham, Enoch, Noah, etc.. knew about it or how could they believe and follow....

God had a covenant with Abraham that was different from the Mosaic one. Could you quote scripture to support your hypothesis?

Now I, with the most beautiful words, ratinal or logic or even verses cannot convince you of any of this as you have hardened your hearts against it, but the Holy Spirit can, as it comes from the same source and gives us comprehension of Gods love and His will, so you must study and pray for understanding on this.

I appreciate your concern for me, but again I will quote the Bible and you can take it for what it plainly says.
2 Cor 3:"14But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.


But it all hangs on Gods love and that is where you must start

Amen! God bless! Ricker

[reddogs]

The sabbath was important because the people that God promised to raise up a seed, were given to idolatry. They worshipped other Gods. They had many idols after God set them free from Egypt with an outstretched hand.
God did many miracles among them but were stiffneck people according to God.
The sabbath was given to prove if they would follow God's commands or not.
There is nothing moral about the sabbath no matter what arguments are made.

The sabbath commandment was given to prove that they worshipped the Creator of heaven and earth.

Resting on the seventh day was a sign given to prove that their God is the creator of Heaven and earth.

If in the bible, it says that sabbath is a sign, why overlook that fact.:scratch:

If in the bible, it does not say anywhere that the sabbath is a moral law. Why raise that argument from silence. :scratch:


Ah, my friend you have raised a question on the great gift of the Sabbath which makes perfect sense and I struggled with also. I will answer with my opinion as I need further study to give a more complete answer.

So, why would the Sabbath be part of the moral law and allow us to see and keep from sin, I feel it is because if we do not have a way to worship the Creator we easily can be turned to worship another that is not the Creator such as Isreal was turned to worship Baal, which is a sin. So worshiping another god, or making idols, or any of the other commandments are the practical application to define what seperates us from God as well as show us what is the practicall application of loving God and loving our fellowman.

I think this would be a good question for Tall73 as why the Sabbath is put in as a Commandment, I think is a bit more deep than the little surface I have scratched.......

[Cribstyl]

Ah, my friend you have raised a question on the great gift of the Sabbath which makes perfect sense and I struggled with also. I will answer with my opinion as I need further study to give a more complete answer.

So, why would the Sabbath be part of the moral law and allow us to see and keep from sin, I feel it is because if we do not have a way to worship the Creator we easily can be turned to worship another that is not the Creator such as Isreal was turned to worship Baal, which is a sin. So worshiping another god, or making idols, or any of the other commandments are the practical application to define what seperates us from God as well as show us what is the practicall application of loving God and loving our fellowman.

I think this would be a good question for Tall73 as why the Sabbath is put in as a Commandment I think is a bit more deep than the little surface I have scratched.......

Appreciate the honesty and effort.

What seems clear in text and in according to the Jewish concensus is, sabbath is a commandment given to COI because, their creator, the one true God, rested in the seventh day.

The Jews claim that God gave them 2 reasons to REMEMBER to keep the sabbath. The second reason is that they were slave in Egypt. The first is because God rested on the seventh. They dont use Ex20:8-11 as a gateway to a Genesis sabbath. They use to remember that God rested on the seventh day.
If sabbath was so moral or important from creation The Noahide Laws say nothing about it.

An additional fact to consider is that, the sign of the sabbath was given to make them seperate from other nation's, so how could they be different if other cultures knew about the moral sabbath?

The issue we have between us is that, you dont present text with your commentary that we find in contradiction with God's word.

Friend I have learn that the sabbath is a good thing. Paul settled the argument about worship days. It's between a man and His God and no man should judge.
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it].

CRIB

[yeshuaslavejeff]

re op title:
...............
................
..................
simple, really. start reading in genesis, read right through, joyfully, hopefully and willing to know and obey the truth no matter what......
.....(it is a surprise in store for you, whoever seeks the truth - a great surprise that no man can tell you ! )

....and Dad's Promise is that He Himself will Breathe Life into your soul :
Truth, Whole, Complete..... Healing and Wellness and Union with Him.....

no man can find Him, nor any part of Him -- no man has even sought Him -- on their own [it is written].

so don't expect man to explain God's thoughts or purposes.

why did God set the Sabbath as a sign for those who trust Him ?
why did God set the Sabbath for eternity ?

His Word tells it simply; man messes it up.

[reddogs]

Well let me go back to the story of the fence (Law) and the goats (sinners), the fence is to keep them (point them to the one that loves him) near the safety of the owner so they may live (eternal life) and away from death (eternal death)....

Jesus used parables to explain things plainly so the people could understand, and I was struck as I worked on my fence this morning, by how the fence was like Gods law, and I thought I would share it. I have many animals but none have given me more grief than my goats. When I first got them, they were a few weeks old and I put up a fence to keep them safe from the various panthers, bears, bobcats and other wildlife that share the woods with us. The fence was more of a marker for the goats as they soon learned to go under it and wander out in the woods were dangers lurked. They got out and indulged in all their little goat desires and ate lantana and other things which wasnt good for them, then at night they would come home through the front gate and lay on the warm hood of my car or the top, causing me great grief. Then I lost some of them from bloating from what they ate and to wildlife, so I did everything I could to save them from the real dangers in the woods. I put a second fence around them so they were in sight of the house so I could go get them if they got out. I sank the bottom of the fence deeper and cemented it at the base, but they jumped over it. I made the fence higher, so they stood on top of stumps or logs so they could get over it. I told my wife we would have to get rid of the goats because they would not stay withing the fence, and getting out where the panthers, bobcats and other dangers in the woods took their toll, so she said to let her try.

She went and sat with them and gave them alfalfa hay to clear out their tummys of the bad stuff they had picked up. She talked to them and rubbed their bellies when they were sick and gave them charcoal for the bloating. Soon the goats stopped jumping the fence and waited for my wife in their pen, and let her hold them and clean their fur or between their horns as that is the one place they cant reach. Now they listen for her voice and come running when she calls and sit with her and listen to her little goat stories she tells them.

Something happened that changed the goats, I couldnt put my finger on it but on one thing I was clear, the fence didnt save them from the dangers. Did it help, yes as far as it delineated the cleared land of the farm and their little goat pen where it was safe. But somehow the goats changed in their little goat desires and behaviour and they no longer wanted to jump the fence and leave the farm, but instead to stay within the safety of the fence and share their happiness with someone who loves them......:groupray:


I feel that the fence (Law) including the Sabbath point us to the intimate relationship (love) of the owner (Creator) with his goats (I named and know each and everyone of them to the point I can tell their voices apart, and they are all loved), and the owner goes out and tries to find all the goats that have gotten outside the fence so they can be with him and share his love for them and with each other.

Now the owner sees that the wild animals (sin) is killing the goats so he decides to move them to his new farm where there are no wild animals so they can live in peace and harmony and never face death, but he can only take those he finds. He looks high and low, calling those that know his voice and love him, but when the day of moving comes, only the ones in the pen inside the fence will be taken and those in the woods outside the fence will be left.

[reddogs]

Gods Law of love which is eternal defines the transgression or sin.

1 John 3:4 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=69&chapter=3&verse=4&version=9&context=verse)
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

As I asked you before if you could edify us as to what transgression or sin the tassel defines, maybe go over it with Tall73 as he is a good christian and honest reader of scripture, and if there is a sin there, he will find it and bring it for the edification of the believers.

I am slowly learning to love God and others as I gain the understanding of what Jesus has set forth, so I am always open and willing to listen to those who love the Lord and teach of His truth....

Your brother in Christ
Red

[Cribstyl]

re op title:
...............
................
..................
simple, really. start reading in genesis, read right through, joyfully, hopefully and willing to know and obey the truth no matter what......
.....(it is a surprise in store for you, whoever seeks the truth - a great surprise that no man can tell you ! )

....and Dad's Promise is that He Himself will Breathe Life into your soul :
Truth, Whole, Complete..... Healing and Wellness and Union with Him.....

no man can find Him, nor any part of Him -- no man has even sought Him -- on their own [it is written].

so don't expect man to explain God's thoughts or purposes.

why did God set the Sabbath as a sign for those who trust Him ?
why did God set the Sabbath for eternity ?

His Word tells it simply; man messes it up.

Thank you, and welcome.....Do you mind given answers to some questions we seek answers for?
We dont put the burden on your answers, but you sure can help our discussion by sharing how the Jewish nations see God's sabbath commandments.

Shalom
CRIB

[Cribstyl]

Gods Law of love which is eternal defines the transgression or sin.

1 John 3:4 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=69&chapter=3&verse=4&version=9&context=verse)
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

As I asked you before if you could edify us as to what transgression or sin the tassel defines, maybe go over it with Tall73 as he is a good christian and honest reader of scripture, and if there is a sin there, he will find it and bring it for the edification of the believers.

I am slowly learning to love God and others as I gain the understanding of what Jesus has set forth, so I am always open and willing to listen to those who love the Lord and teach of His truth....

Your brother in Christ
Red

:scratch: Red, who are you addressing?

[reddogs]

Oops,

Sorry, was running late to work........I was addressing this post:

Yes I do think you should answer the questions. You said


The Bible also says to wear tassels, but the only reason you can give me as to why you don't wear the tassels is because you can remember the commandments without them. But the tassels are a command from God and found in the Bible. Are you trying to figure out how much you can get away with and still be right in God's eyes? Is any command from God a little thing? So you condemn non-Sabbatarians as trying to figure out how much they can get away with, but in the same time you condemn yourself because you are (by your explanation) dismissing the command to wear tassels. So what is the rational for no longer wearing tassels? Where does the Bible say you are not to wear tassels anymore? By the rational you gave you could also dismiss the command to not kill because you don't need that command in order to not kill someone.

[Eila]

Gods Law of love which is eternal defines the transgression or sin.

1 John 3:4 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=69&chapter=3&verse=4&version=9&context=verse)
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

The tassels were a command from God. Numbers 15 says "37 Again the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 38 “Speak to the children of Israel: Tell them to make tassels on the corners of their garments throughout their generations, and to put a blue thread in the tassels of the corners. 39 And you shall have the tassel, that you may look upon it and remember all the commandments of the LORD and do them, and that you may not follow the harlotry to which your own heart and your own eyes are inclined, 40 and that you may remember and do all My commandments, and be holy for your God. 41 I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: I am the LORD your God.”"



As I asked you before if you could edify us as to what transgression or sin the tassel defines, maybe go over it with Tall73 as he is a good christian and honest reader of scripture, and if there is a sin there, he will find it and bring it for the edification of the believers.

I'm sorry I don't remember you ever asking me to tell you what sin the tassel defines. God commanded the people to wear tassels. Wouldn't not following a command of God be a sin? If God said to wear a purple hat then not wearing a purple hat would be a sin. I have no problem with the tassel issue, but I am trying to understand how you can rationalize not wearing tassels when they are a reminder of the commandments of God. Where does the Bible say you are not to wear tassels anymore? Can you pick and choose which commands are applicable?

You were the one who said that non-Sabbatarians are trying to get away with not following the commands of God. I have showed you a command of God and you have not shown me from the Bible any reason to stop keeping that command. Are you saying that you cannot show from the Bible that you are not to wear tassels anymore?

[reddogs]

That is why he defines the Law in the 10 Commandments which makes it clear what His eternal standards are, the mosaic laws were for them to point them to and look for the Messiah. That is why I asked if you could go over this with Tall73 as it is area I have to defer to more knowlegable scholars.

[Eila]

That is why he defines the Law in the 10 Commandments which makes it clear what His eternal standards are, the mosaic laws were for them to point them to and look for the Messiah. That is why I asked if you could go over this with Tall73 as it is area I have to defer to more knowlegable scholars.

I am asking you because you are the one who said that non-Sabbatarians are trying to get away with not following the commands of God. Tall73 didn't say that. I am trying to understand your rational for obeying some of the commands and not others.

So you are saying that sin is only violating the 10 commandments? Do you believe it is it a sin for you to eat ham? Is it a sin to not tithe?

Do you realize these commands are in what you call the Mosaic law?

Leviticus 19 "17 ‘You shall not hate your brother in your heart. You shall surely rebuke your neighbor, and not bear sin because of him. 18 You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD."

Is this command no longer applicable?

Deut 6 "5 You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength. "

Why do you say some parts of what you call the Mosaic law are applicable and some are not? And why would a reminder of the commandments not be applicable?

[reddogs]

IMHO I dont think you are searching for truth from your questions. I have never heard of this issue from any theologian, church, or pastor so I am refering you to more learned scholar to go over so you can bring us a better understanding so everyone can be blessed and evil be averted.

As you can see the Lord "The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them" and "and bid them", this is not even close to being a commandment or Gods Law.

Numbers 15

Supplementary Offerings

1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'After you enter the land I am giving you as a home 3 and you present to the LORD offerings made by fire, from the herd or the flock, as an aroma pleasing to the LORD -whether burnt offerings or sacrifices, for special vows or freewill offerings or festival offerings- 4 then the one who brings his offering shall present to the LORD a grain offering of a tenth of an ephah [a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%2015%20;&version=31;#fen-NIV-4158a)] of fine flour mixed with a quarter of a hin [b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%2015%20;&version=31;#fen-NIV-4158b)] of oil. 5 With each lamb for the burnt offering or the sacrifice, prepare a quarter of a hin of wine as a drink offering.

6 " 'With a ram prepare a grain offering of two-tenths of an ephah [c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%2015%20;&version=31;#fen-NIV-4160c)] of fine flour mixed with a third of a hin [d (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%2015%20;&version=31;#fen-NIV-4160d)] of oil, 7 and a third of a hin of wine as a drink offering. Offer it as an aroma pleasing to the LORD.
8 " 'When you prepare a young bull as a burnt offering or sacrifice, for a special vow or a fellowship offering [e (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%2015%20;&version=31;#fen-NIV-4162e)] to the LORD, 9 bring with the bull a grain offering of three-tenths of an ephah [f (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%2015%20;&version=31;#fen-NIV-4163f)] of fine flour mixed with half a hin [g (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%2015%20;&version=31;#fen-NIV-4163g)] of oil. 10 Also bring half a hin of wine as a drink offering. It will be an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the LORD. 11 Each bull or ram, each lamb or young goat, is to be prepared in this manner. 12 Do this for each one, for as many as you prepare.
13 " 'Everyone who is native-born must do these things in this way when he brings an offering made by fire as an aroma pleasing to the LORD. 14 For the generations to come, whenever an alien or anyone else living among you presents an offering made by fire as an aroma pleasing to the LORD, he must do exactly as you do. 15 The community is to have the same rules for you and for the alien living among you; this is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. You and the alien shall be the same before the LORD : 16 The same laws and regulations will apply both to you and to the alien living among you.' "
17 The LORD said to Moses, 18 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'When you enter the land to which I am taking you 19 and you eat the food of the land, present a portion as an offering to the LORD. 20 Present a cake from the first of your ground meal and present it as an offering from the threshing floor. 21 Throughout the generations to come you are to give this offering to the LORD from the first of your ground meal. Offerings for Unintentional Sins

22 " 'Now if you unintentionally fail to keep any of these commands the LORD gave Moses- 23 any of the LORD's commands to you through him, from the day the LORD gave them and continuing through the generations to come- 24 and if this is done unintentionally without the community being aware of it, then the whole community is to offer a young bull for a burnt offering as an aroma pleasing to the LORD, along with its prescribed grain offering and drink offering, and a male goat for a sin offering. 25 The priest is to make atonement for the whole Israelite community, and they will be forgiven, for it was not intentional and they have brought to the LORD for their wrong an offering made by fire and a sin offering. 26 The whole Israelite community and the aliens living among them will be forgiven, because all the people were involved in the unintentional wrong.

27 " 'But if just one person sins unintentionally, he must bring a year-old female goat for a sin offering. 28 The priest is to make atonement before the LORD for the one who erred by sinning unintentionally, and when atonement has been made for him, he will be forgiven. 29 One and the same law applies to everyone who sins unintentionally, whether he is a native-born Israelite or an alien.
30 " 'But anyone who sins defiantly, whether native-born or alien, blasphemes the LORD, and that person must be cut off from his people. 31 Because he has despised the LORD's word and broken his commands, that person must surely be cut off; his guilt remains on him.' " The Sabbath-Breaker Put to Death

32 While the Israelites were in the desert, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. 33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, 34 and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. 35 Then the LORD said to Moses, "The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp." 36 So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the LORD commanded Moses.
Tassels on Garments

37 The LORD said to Moses, 38 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'Throughout the generations to come you are to make tassels on the corners of your garments, with a blue cord on each tassel. 39 You will have these tassels to look at and so you will remember all the commands of the LORD, that you may obey them and not prostitute yourselves by going after the lusts of your own hearts and eyes. 40 Then you will remember to obey all my commands and will be consecrated to your God. 41 I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt to be your God. I am the LORD your God.' "


Numbers 15 (KJV)


1And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land of your habitations, which I give unto you,
3And will make an offering by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, or a sacrifice in performing a vow, or in a freewill offering, or in your solemn feasts, to make a sweet savour unto the LORD, of the herd or of the flock:
4Then shall he that offereth his offering unto the LORD bring a meat offering of a tenth deal of flour mingled with the fourth part of an hin of oil.
5And the fourth part of an hin of wine for a drink offering shalt thou prepare with the burnt offering or sacrifice, for one lamb.
6Or for a ram, thou shalt prepare for a meat offering two tenth deals of flour mingled with the third part of an hin of oil.
7And for a drink offering thou shalt offer the third part of an hin of wine, for a sweet savour unto the LORD.
8And when thou preparest a bullock for a burnt offering, or for a sacrifice in performing a vow, or peace offerings unto the LORD:
9Then shall he bring with a bullock a meat offering of three tenth deals of flour mingled with half an hin of oil.
10And thou shalt bring for a drink offering half an hin of wine, for an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD.
11Thus shall it be done for one bullock, or for one ram, or for a lamb, or a kid.
12According to the number that ye shall prepare, so shall ye do to every one according to their number.
13All that are born of the country shall do these things after this manner, in offering an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD.
14And if a stranger sojourn with you, or whosoever be among you in your generations, and will offer an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD; as ye do, so he shall do.
15One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth with you, an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD.
16One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.
17And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
18Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye come into the land whither I bring you,
19Then it shall be, that, when ye eat of the bread of the land, ye shall offer up an heave offering unto the LORD.
20Ye shall offer up a cake of the first of your dough for an heave offering: as ye do the heave offering of the threshingfloor, so shall ye heave it.
21Of the first of your dough ye shall give unto the LORD an heave offering in your generations.
22And if ye have erred, and not observed all these commandments, which the LORD hath spoken unto Moses,
23Even all that the LORD hath commanded you by the hand of Moses, from the day that the LORD commanded Moses, and henceforward among your generations;
24Then it shall be, if ought be committed by ignorance without the knowledge of the congregation, that all the congregation shall offer one young bullock for a burnt offering, for a sweet savour unto the LORD, with his meat offering, and his drink offering, according to the manner, and one kid of the goats for a sin offering.
25And the priest shall make an atonement for all the congregation of the children of Israel, and it shall be forgiven them; for it is ignorance: and they shall bring their offering, a sacrifice made by fire unto the LORD, and their sin offering before the LORD, for their ignorance:
26And it shall be forgiven all the congregation of the children of Israel, and the stranger that sojourneth among them; seeing all the people were in ignorance.
27And if any soul sin through ignorance, then he shall bring a she goat of the first year for a sin offering.
28And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.
29Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.
30But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
31Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.
32And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
33And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
34And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
35And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
36And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.
37And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
38Speak unto the children of Israel, and bid them that they make them fringes in the borders of their garments throughout their generations, and that they put upon the fringe of the borders a ribband of blue:
39And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them ; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring:
40That ye may remember, and do all my commandments, and be holy unto your God. 41I am the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: I am the LORD your God.

[Eila]

IMHO I dont think you are searching for truth from your questions. I have never heard of this issue from any theologian, church, or pastor so I am refering you to more learned scholar to go over so you can bring us a better understanding so everyone can be blessed and evil be averted.

Why would it be evil to ask you some pointed questions? I have a full understanding why I don't wear tassels. You said

...If the Bible says we are to keep the Sabbath then why wouldn't you want to do it? Are we as christians trying to figure out how much we can get away with and still be right in God's eyes. I don't consider the Sabbath a 'little thing' but isn't it the 'little things' that we do that really show our love to someone, including God. Absolutely!

In response I have asked you if the Bible says we are to wear tassels why wouldn't you want to do it. If you can make that statement to non-Sabbatarians you should be able to respond to people questionning your ideas.


As you can see the Lord "The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them" and "and bid them", this is not even close to being a commandment or Gods Law.

The Hebrew word amar is translated as command at least 30 times in the OT. You are saying that wearing tassels was optional? How do you determine which commands are optional or not?

Here is an example of the Hebrew word amar being translated as command. The translated amar is bolded:

Nehemiah 13
"9 Then I commanded them to cleanse the rooms; and I brought back into them the articles of the house of God, with the grain offering and the frankincense.
10 I also realized that the portions for the Levites had not been given them; for each of the Levites and the singers who did the work had gone back to his field. 11 So I contended with the rulers, and said, “Why is the house of God forsaken?” And I gathered them together and set them in their place. 12 Then all Judah brought the tithe of the grain and the new wine and the oil to the storehouse. 13 And I appointed as treasurers over the storehouse Shelemiah the priest and Zadok the scribe, and of the Levites, Pedaiah; and next to them was Hanan the son of Zaccur, the son of Mattaniah; for they were considered faithful, and their task was to distribute to their brethren.
14 Remember me, O my God, concerning this, and do not wipe out my good deeds that I have done for the house of my God, and for its services!
15 In those days I saw people in Judah treading wine presses on the Sabbath, and bringing in sheaves, and loading donkeys with wine, grapes, figs, and all kinds of burdens, which they brought into Jerusalem on the Sabbath day. And I warned them about the day on which they were selling provisions. 16 Men of Tyre dwelt there also, who brought in fish and all kinds of goods, and sold them on the Sabbath to the children of Judah, and in Jerusalem.
17 Then I contended with the nobles of Judah, and said to them, “What evil thing is this that you do, by which you profane the Sabbath day? 18 Did not your fathers do thus, and did not our God bring all this disaster on us and on this city? Yet you bring added wrath on Israel by profaning the Sabbath.”
19 So it was, at the gates of Jerusalem, as it began to be dark before the Sabbath, that I commanded the gates to be shut, and charged that they must not be opened till after the Sabbath. Then I posted some of my servants at the gates, so that no burdens would be brought in on the Sabbath day. 20 Now the merchants and sellers of all kinds of wares lodged outside Jerusalem once or twice.21 Then I warned them, and said to them, “Why do you spend the night around the wall? If you do so again, I will lay hands on you!” From that time on they came no more on the Sabbath. 22 And I commanded the Levites that they should cleanse themselves, and that they should go and guard the gates, to sanctify the Sabbath day.
Remember me, O my God, concerning this also, and spare me according to the greatness of Your mercy! "

[reddogs]

When you try to start a controversy over tassles, you are not being led by the Holy Spirit, it is another.


23Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
24Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. 25Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Matthew23:23-25

[ricker]

When you try to start a controversy over tassles, you are not being led by the Holy Spirit, it is another.


23Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
24Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. 25Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Matthew23:23-25
Come on Reddogs! All Eila did was quote a command from the old covenant and ask you if you kept it. You have been quoting commands from the old covenant and saying we should keep them. Is it to much to expect an answer from you? She has a valid question, it has much to do with the current validity of the law. She is just quoting scripture! If you can't answer, maybe you should do some soul-searching and some Bible searching instead of attacking her and dismissing the Bible verses. (sorry, Eila, I know you can fight your own battles, but this is getting ridicules.). God bless! Ricker

[Eila]

When you try to start a controversy over tassles, you are not being led by the Holy Spirit, it is another.


23Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
24Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. 25Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Matthew23:23-25

What controversy? You hold to the validity of certain commands in the old covenant. How do you know what commands you should keep? How do you know what commands are optional?

The tassels are a reminder of the commandments. If you are not able to answer the question that is fine. But please refrain from condemning those who do not believe they are under the old covenant.

If you cannot explain Biblically why you do not need to keep certain commands in the old covenant why should I listen to you when you say I should keep some of the commands in the old covenant?

So again I ask, what is the Biblical rational for choosing certain items in the old covenant and rejecting others? And if you believe the 10 commandments remain why would a reminder of commandments not remain?

[reddogs]

Lets just say it is much ado over a non-issue and I am dissappointed that she made so much about it. But this has happened before with her and thus my comments. I thought we were at a place were we wouldnt place such blatant uneeded "snipe hunts" in each others paths, and seek the truth as fellow believers, not trip each other with bad intent......

[Eila]

Lets just say it is much ado over a non-issue and I am dissappointed that she made so much about it. But this has happened before with her and thus my comments. I thought we were at a place were we wouldnt place such blatant uneeded "snipe hunts" in each others paths, and seek the truth as fellow believers......

I am questioning the validity of the old covenant law. You say part of it stands and part of it does not, but you cannot explain why part of it does fall. You are the one who brought up the issue that non-Sabbatarians are trying to see how much they can get away with when you are not even keeping the whole law.

It is a very important issue. Galatians 3 says "10For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them." 11Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for "The righteous shall live by faith." 12But the law is not of faith, rather "The one who does them shall live by them.""

[reddogs]

There are always thing written to help us in our Christian life that are specific reason or purpose verses what is clearly a Commandment which God sets forth or derives from them, here is Paul making a clear definition between his counsel and the Law:

4The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
5Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency. 6But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment. 1 Corinthians 7:4-6

[Eila]

There are always thing written to help us in our Christian life that are specific reason or purpose verses what is clearly a Commandment which God sets forth or derives from them, here is Paul making a clear definition between his counsel and the Law:

4The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
5Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency. 6But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment. 1 Corinthians 7:4-6

Yes, I understand the distinction made here.

However the tassels command came directly from God.

Numbers 15 "
37And the Lord said to Moses,
38Speak to the Israelites and bid them make fringes or tassels on the corners in the borders of their garments throughout their generations, and put upon the fringe of the borders or upon the tassel of each corner a cord of blue."

How do you distinguish between commands you should keep and commands you do not need to keep?

[yeshuaslavejeff]

man shall not live by bread alone, but by a steady stream of words from God's mouth.....

see, it is not a list of commands nor instructions that if you keep them you'll be okay (although Jesus said if you break them you are not His)

so few people know Yahweh, yet so many claim to, that's why there are so many questions and so much confusion...

once you are in union with Yahweh by immersion in Yahshua, the questions are simply satisfied, no more strife, no more disobedience.