Old Covenent in effect? [Archive]

JDIBe

27th March 2007, 09:01 PM

The following is a post from the Instrumental Music thread. I will answer below. This is an issue that sprang from the IM thread that I feel warrants discussion.

David also offered animal sacrifices. He also had many wives. If it was right for David, why not modern Christians?

There is nothing to prevent men keeping the old covenant and thus being accepted under that promise of God , it is just that men find it impossible to keep to a set of rules on how to be good like that... the old covenant is old only because the new covenant will work for 144,000 in this earth whereas the old covenant was kept only by Jesus, only one....

Thus by all means try to follow Jesus under the old covenant if you think you can do better than Israel... and there is nothing in scripture that forbids you offering animal sacrifices, it is simply that God is sick of the insincerity and indifference by which Israel turned it into mere ritual without any penitence behind what they did...

As for taking many wives, there are countries where one can do that and God has never forbidden it in any way ... it is simply that there really are too many people in the earth for the crude unloving ways we live, so it is not a good idea for men to have huge families in many countries, so laws have been made....

So in fact [I find] your argument holds no force in scripture, with God...

What you call 'early christians' are NOT the disciples of Jesus, and the churches were already falling away [apostasy] into false beliefs by the time of those you call 'early christians' as can be demonstrated by the DIVISION from the one truth oof God in scripture and from each other [God's truth is one truth, UNDIVIDED, and Jesus promised ALL truth to his ACTUAL followers, not to sinners who call themselves 'christian' ,but ONLY to saints ...

because the 'early christians were already a long way from what Jesus taught

When one READS the new covenant [Hebrews 8:3-13], instead of listening to what sinners say that it says, then one will see that it is with the House of Judah [the 'Jews'] AND with the lost paganised House of Israel who today live as GENTILES amongst the gentiles.... then one might begin to understand God's actual covenant instead of just listening to sinners ... we should read the scripture not the lips of sinners in smocks...there is a BIG difference and they cannot cover it up any longer [after almost two millenia of trying!!]

JDIBe

27th March 2007, 09:09 PM

...read the scripture....

Ok, let's read some Scripture together...

Eph 2:11-16

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that once ye, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called Circumcision, in the flesh, made by hands;
12 that ye were at that time separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye that once were far off are made nigh in the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who made both one, and brake down the middle wall of partition,
15 having abolished in the flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; that he might create in himself of the two one new man, so making peace;
16 and might reconcile them both in one body unto God through the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

There is nothing to prevent men keeping the old covenant and thus being accepted under that promise of God ,

Yes there is....

it is just that men find it impossible to keep to a set of rules on how to be good like that...

Exactly! The Old Law has no power to save. It can only condemn. As you say only one Person has ever kept the Old Law perfectly, and that one Person didn't need saving. If you are banking on the Old Covenent, you are fighting a battle you will lose.

the old covenant is old only because the new covenant will work for 144,000

....or so.....

in this earth whereas the old covenant was kept only by Jesus, only one....

Thus by all means try to follow Jesus under the old covenant if you think you can do better than Israel... and there is nothing in scripture that forbids you offering animal sacrifices, it is simply that God is sick of the insincerity and indifference by which Israel turned it into mere ritual without any penitence behind what they did...

Offer as many animals as you wish, but it still does you no good...

Hebrews 10:1-12

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of the good things to come, not the very image of the things, can never with the same sacrifices year by year, which they offer continually, make perfect them that draw nigh.
2 Else would they not have ceased to be offered? because the worshippers, having been once cleansed, would have had no more consciousness of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance made of sins year by year.
4 For it is impossible that the blood of bulls and goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, But a body didst thou prepare for me;
6 In whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hadst no pleasure:
7 Then said I, Lo, I am come (In the roll of the book it is written of me) To do thy will, O God.
8 Saying above, Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein (the which are offered according to the law),
9 then hath he said, Lo, I am come to do thy will. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By which will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest indeed standeth day by day ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, the which can never take away sins:
12 but he, when he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

When one READS the new covenant [Hebrews 8:3-13], instead of listening to what sinners say that it says, then one will see that it is with the House of Judah [the 'Jews'] AND with the lost paganised House of Israel who today live as GENTILES amongst the gentiles.... then one might begin to understand God's actual covenant instead of just listening to sinners ... we should read the scripture not the lips of sinners in smocks...there is a BIG difference and they cannot cover it up any longer [after almost two millenia of trying!!]

Hebrews 8:8-13

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, That I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers In the day that I took them by the hand to lead them forth out of the land of Egypt; For they continued not in my covenant, And I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel After those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, And on their heart also will I write them: And I will be to them a God, And they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his fellow-citizen, And every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: For all shall know me, From the least to the greatest of them.
12 For I will be merciful to their iniquities, And their sins will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant he hath made the first old. But that which is becoming old and waxeth aged is nigh unto vanishing away.

So what is this "New Covenant made with both the house of Israel (not just some) and Judah"? The same Covenant made with the Gentiles, (you and me) for as Paul says in Gal. 3:24-29...

Gal 3:24 So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a tutor.
26 For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ did put on Christ.
28 There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither bond nor free, there can be no male and female; for ye all are one man in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye are Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, heirs according to promise.

Friend, I understand your disdain and suspicion with people in fancy robes telling you what one must do to be right with God. I even somewhat share in your suspicion to a certain extent. But the truth is there in the Bible. The Old has passed away. The New has come. But don't take my word for it. Read, study, and decide for yourself. But please do so with an open mind and heart. That is the thrust of myself and all our friends here in the Restoration Movement. You live in a wonderful time when God has revealed the fullness of His Plan to all. Why would you ever want to go back?