Orthodoxy - Chock Full Of Converts?

[AJB4]

The Orthodox church is chock-full of converts from many different circles, correct? I'm just wondering, is it one of the fastest-growing Christian churches?

[Knowledge3]

The holy orthodox church is soon to have one new member. :) :priest:

[Dust and Ashes]

I've read recently that it's the fastest growing Church in America. I can't say how accurate that is but I've seen quite a few people drift in inquiring and end up Orthodox.

[Greg the byzantine]

Only on the internet. Granted there are many converts,the church is just not teaming with them. It also depends where you are. Here in NYC I still haven't met many, except for the few men and women who converted upon (and a few after, who fell in love with Orthodoxy) marrying their spouses.

[Dust and Ashes]

It depends on the parish. I've only been to 3 Orthodox Churches, not counting our mission and 2 of them were 90% converts. The only cradle Orthodox at our mission can be seen sprawled in my lap below. :D

[Knowledge3]

Cool picture! :) lol

[Jacob4707]

I have read that even though in many places there are many converts, the church is losing cradle Orthodox faster than it is gaining converts, so its net numbers are actually declining.

[Dust and Ashes]

I don't doubt it, KATH. So many are poorly catechized, if at all, and when they encounter "easy believism" they don't see the errors because they haven't been taught how. I remember encountering a fellow here on CF who was baptized OO as an infant by his grandfather who was an archbishop, yet he knew almost nothing about Orthodox beliefs and practices.

[Lotar]

It's really hard to tell whether we are growing or shrinking. The Antiochians are experiencing some growth, while the OCA and Greeks are experiencing some loss. I think a lot of it also depends on what region you are in.

Here in the Inland Empire (So Cali) we are experiencing a good amount of growth, but we certainly aren't going to have a major presence any time soon. I think this year we will have as much growth from births as converts (actually a wonderful side effect of our priests stand against contraception).

[EmperorConstantine]

At the church I attend (south Tacoma area) we have a few cradles and a few converts. We are mostly converts, but the cradles keep the rest of us in line! :D

However, I've been told that in Seattle, there are more cradles coming from Russia in a few places than there are converts.

It all depends really.

[SeraphimSarov]

I dunno about anywhere else, but at the parish I attend, people born into Orthodoxy are in the very slim minority. A lot of us are converts from Roman Catholicism, and there are also quite a few converts from evangelical backgrounds. That includes my priest, if I'm not mistaken.

[Asinner]

I believe that many are seeking the Ancient Faith. Like Gallatin's title, there are many who are thirsting for God in a land of shallow wells.

Love,
Christina

[SeraphimSarov]

What a great way to put it!

[choirfiend]

Uh, Dust---I dont think it's toooooooo likely that he was baptised by his grandfather. Maybe a grand uncle?

[Dust and Ashes]

Uh, Dust---I dont think it's toooooooo likely that he was baptised by his grandfather. Maybe a grand uncle?

I'm pretty sure he said grandfather but it could have been something else. Maybe his grandfather was a widower for many years? Upon thinking more about it, he was Armenian but I'm not sure that would make any difference.

[Philothei]

I believe there is growth in converts but as others said there are also lots of craddles that are leaving.... so it is about the same. There are new communities forming while the big Cathedrals are experiencing a decline, due to population shifts. Demographics play a definite role in all of this. It is really hard to tell. We are not excatly a faith that one can find out about right away. We are not that accecible or available to the average american person out there. We are so small that in the rural areas we are non-existant...

God bless,
Philothei

[Theophorus]

One indicator might be that denominations now see Orthodoxy as a threat and are encouraging their apologists to become more familiar with Orthodox theology.

[buzuxi02]

I'm here in New York and dont really see any cradles converting to other churches.

Most of the Greeks arrived in this region after WW2 thru the 1970's. Up until the mid-1970's there was only one greek Orthodox Church (St Pauls Cathedral which i posted a few photos of in another thread) Now there are atleast 7, of which four are enormous (in Nassau County.) Growth is sparked by intermarriage.

[Philothei]

I'm here in New York and dont really see any cradles converting to other churches.

Most of the Greeks arrived in this region after WW2 thru the 1970's. Up until the mid-1970's there was only one greek Orthodox Church (St Pauls Cathedral which i posted a few photos of in another thread) Now there are atleast 7, of which four are enormous (in Nassau County.) Growth is sparked by intermarriage.
New York and the surrouding areas are different, also Chicago, you do not really see it as often becuase of the recent immigration from Greece. In other cities of North East we see a decline though, as well as in the midwest. And craddles converting to other faiths is not seen for the first generation Greek Americans or "anyjuristiction" Americans but for their children. After the third generation craddles follow other faiths if their parents have not been consistantly encouraging them to attend the E.O Church, and this happens across all jusristictions. I have known of cases of fourth generations but it is rare to find a sixth or seventh generations E.O. I believe that does not happen, to the extent that takes place in the E. O, in other denominations such as RC and Protestanism. Maybe it happens and I am just not aware of it though....


God bless,
Philothei

[OrthoCanuck]

As my priest once said: "I'd rather have a few devoted Orthodox converts than a thousand lukewarm ones."

It is about quality...not quantity.

Our parish went from 0 to 85 in four years (if you get the OCA bi-monthy magazine, there is an article about our church in the Jan/Feb issue). Our parish is growing well, but I cannot speak for Orthodoxy in general in Canada. And our parish is at least >50% converts (including our priest and deacon).


Peace.

[Mary of Bethany]

The Diocese of the South is a hotbed of conversersions, so I probably have a skewed outlook. It just seems very positive from where I stand. :clap:

Mary

[Shubunkin]

We have an Antiochian mission, and most of us are converts. We have about two cradle Orthodox adults, and the rest were born a few months ago. :) Like three and four months olds. With more on the way....our parish is growing rapidly in this way.

After talking with some of the converts of our parish, it seems like the well documented shenanigans of the various denominations has a definite impact on inquirers here. Reading the Bible and then what the denominations do according to political correctness may be a boon to ours. :D

[Shubunkin]

Amendment to that thought: I think we also have a two year old and a three year old that are also cradle too, because the mission has been here for five years, and that family has been members here since those two were born. ^_^

[Mary of Bethany]

Yeah, we have bunches of little "cradles" running around our parish. :thumbsup:

Our parish has grown from 40-50 at DL 2 years ago to over 120 or so now. A mix of cradles and converts.

Mary

[Philothei]

That is all great news y'all! Praise be to God.

God bless,
Philothei :)

[kamikat]

I think our parish is about 50/50.

[nestoj]

Didn’t wanted to interfere since we are to far away from you guys – but it’s definitely getting better here where I am, although rise is slow. Anyhow, people who are coming to church are 95% cradle Orthodox, it’s just that after baptism, mainly, they had no contact with a church till they grew up enough to started asking. I live in 350000 citizens city and we have about 500 catholics, 1000 muslims and about 2000 of all other denominations (including atheists) – rest are, at least nominal, Orthodox. Muslim and catholic population is approximately same in last two decades. In 15 years of their increased activity other denominations (JW, Protestant denominations…) accumulated a body of 800-1000 members. Number of atheists drastically dropped (I don’t have exact numbers on this, but I guess neither do monitoring organizations). Number of active Orthodox Church laity believers is roughly 6000-7000 including children. I know this is not much, but I was told that in the 1990. there was no more then 200 people during Liturgy in all churches of my city. Rest of the Orthodox (nominal ones) are still pretty distant from active church life, but they do see Orthodoxy as essential part of them, and they consider offer to change their religion as “not acceptable” (we actually had couple incidents when JW activists who shared printed material on the streets had to escape from people they ware trying to hand the booklets to, so now nobody, except OC, tries to inform others this way). Situation in northern parts is a bit worst, but there also OC is regaining her flock faster then others are succeeding to draw them to something else, and even there it’s because these parts have more national minorities that are of west and central European origin – mainly traditionally catholic.

Anyway, I’m a objectively optimistic about future, so I expect that, unless communists take over again or we are stomped in the ground by muslims, wounds will be healed.

nestoj
God helps

[Philothei]

That is very good Nestoj! Considering what Serbia has gone through since Communism this is a recovery...

Atheism is high in all of Europe. Greece was voted the most Christian country of all Europe in the ninties. But we still have our share of atheism among our faithful too. We got our C.E.Os (Christmas and Easter Only) faithful that make up for a big percendage of our laity. CEOs are everywhere in all churches it is the ill of our times, unfortunately.

But I believe that with time all Eastern European countries would get back into th E.O. church slowly.

God bless,
Philothei

[Lotar]

The whole thing in the US is confusing. Some people say that we are the fastest growing in the country, and others say that we are actually declining.


IMO, the long term solution to creating a strong Orthodox presence in this country can be more effectively produced by increasing our birth rate, through an emphasis on the Church's traditional view on contraception.

The point being, gaining converts is an excellent thing, but the long term mission will not be helped if there are not enough children to form peer groups and to choose spouses from. When this happens, children are more likely to stray and never return.

[DonVA]

The whole thing in the US is confusing. Some people say that we are the fastest growing in the country, and others say that we are actually declining.


IMO, the long term solution to creating a strong Orthodox presence in this country can be more effectively produced by increasing our birth rate, through an emphasis on the Church's traditional view on contraception.

The point being, gaining converts is an excellent thing, but the long term mission will not be helped if there are not enough children to form peer groups and to choose spouses from. When this happens, children are more likely to stray and never return.
Lotar makes a great point here. Seeing lots of children in our parish gives us hope that our church--and our community--will continue to grow.

[EmperorConstantine]

The whole thing in the US is confusing. Some people say that we are the fastest growing in the country, and others say that we are actually declining.


IMO, the long term solution to creating a strong Orthodox presence in this country can be more effectively produced by increasing our birth rate, through an emphasis on the Church's traditional view on contraception.

The point being, gaining converts is an excellent thing, but the long term mission will not be helped if there are not enough children to form peer groups and to choose spouses from. When this happens, children are more likely to stray and never return.
Well, we have a generation or two of converts. Hopefully these generations will raise their kids in the faith and their kids and their kids etc etc.

[Lotar]

Well, we have a generation or two of converts. Hopefully these generations will raise their kids in the faith and their kids and their kids etc etc.
What does that have to do with it? Cradles raise their children up in the Church as well.

The point is that if we followed the Church's teachings concerning childbearing and contraception, we would have a birth rate high enough to double our numbers every decade or so. Not only that, but our children will have Orthodox friends their age and Orthodox to choose their spouses from. This is important for maintaining the Faith from generation to generation without losing our children to assimilation into the general culture. This is especially important for us since we are so thinly spread across the country.

About half of our parish is under the age of 18, yet we still only have about 5-7 births a year. If we had the average 1.8 anglo birth rate, our children would be lucky to have one other child their age.