What are your views on Israel?

[FrauWarrior]

I'm new here and asking this question because I've been to many Christian forums and Baptist forums and have gotten a lot of different answers so I'm curious as to what everyone here thinks.

[arunma]

If you're referring to the secular state of Israel, I don't view it as any fulfillment of Biblical prophecy. To me it's just another secular state, except that it happens to be in political control of the homeland of our Lord Jesus.

[edb19]

I'm with Arunma - I don't think national Israel has anything to do with Scriptural prophecy. As I understand Scripture - the new Israel refers to the church.

[arunma]

I'm with Arunma - I don't think national Israel has anything to do with Scriptural prophecy. As I understand Scripture - the new Israel refers to the church.

My thoughts exactly! All Jews and Gentiles who are baptized into Christ are children of Abraham, and thus members of the commonwealth of Israel.

[Project 86]

I don't see any Biblical evidence that the church is now Israel. Well known theologians such as John MacArthur and C.C. Rylie would agree. Of course that is what makes those guys dispensationalists and others are amillennialists or postmillennialists that say otherwise. Of course I'm still studying this topic but atleast it is all starting to now make sense to me. ;)

[Libre]

Let me make that one more who sees the church as Israel, the Bride, the New Jerusalem. Because someone will surely challenge this. So, it's off to a good start!

Libre

[arunma]

I don't see any Biblical evidence that the church is now Israel. Well known theologians such as John MacArthur and C.C. Rylie would agree. Of course that is what makes those guys dispensationalists and others are amillennialists or postmillennialists that say otherwise. Of course I'm still studying this topic but atleast it is all starting to now make sense to me. ;)


Yes, it's true that some well-respected theologians, including the ones you mentioned, would disagree with the Covenant Theology viewpoint. Here are just a few of the Scriptures that we take as statements that the church is the true Spiritual Israel:For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise. (Galatians 3:27-29)


For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God. (Romans 2:28-29)


But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. Then you will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but stand in awe. (Romans 11:17-20)


Remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. (Ephesians 2:12)

But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. (1 Peter 2:9)

There are of course many other passages of Scripture. But here are a few Scriptures which, as we interpret them, teach that the church, comprised of both Jews and Gentiles, is the true Israel.

[Project 86]

Yes, it's true that some well-respected theologians, including the ones you mentioned, would disagree with the Covenant Theology viewpoint. Here are just a few of the Scriptures that we take as statements that the church is the true Spiritual Israel:For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise. (Galatians 3:27-29)For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God. (Romans 2:28-29)But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. Then you will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but stand in awe. (Romans 11:17-20)Remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. (Ephesians 2:12)But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. (1 Peter 2:9)There are of course many other passages of Scripture. But here are a few Scriptures which, as we interpret them, teach that the church, comprised of both Jews and Gentiles, is the true Israel.

Thanks for your reply arunma. I always love a challenge, specially in areas I'm currently working on understanding. It just forces me to do my homework and to come to a greater understanding.

Galatians 3:27-29
All Galatians is saying here that all can be saved. It doesn't matter if you male or female. It doesn't matter if you are Jew or Gentile. That doesn't make the church Israel any more then this makes women and men the same. This is the same verse some people try to use to say that women can be head pastors. I believe it is the same poor hermenutic that uses this verse to say the Israel and the church are the same.

Romans 2:28-29
To put it simply this is just saying that not all Jews are saved Jews.

Romans 11:17-20
I find it odd you mention Romans 11 since I think it is one of the stronger supports for a dispensationist view in the New Testament. Earlier in Romans 11 we learn that God isn't going to break his covenant.

Romans 11:2a God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.

Ephesians 2:12
Not sure how this supports the idea that the church is now Israel.

1 Peter 2:9
I believe this to be the strongest verse for the covenant theology view. That being said I don't stand convinced. To quote John MacArthur:

2:9 a chosen generation. Peter uses OT concepts to emphasize the privileges of NT Christians (cf. Deut. 7:6–8). In strong contrast to the disobedient who are appointed by God to wrath (v. 8), Christians are chosen by God to salvation (cf. 1:2). a royal priesthood. The concept of a kingly priesthood is drawn from Ex. 19:6. Israel temporarily forfeited this privilege because of its apostasy and because its wicked leaders executed the Messiah. At the present time, the church is a royal priesthood united with the royal priest, Jesus Christ. A royal priesthood is not only a priesthood that belongs to and serves the king, but is also a priesthood which exercises rule. This will ultimately be fulfilled in Christ’s future kingdom (1 Cor. 6:1–4; Rev. 5:10; 20:6). a holy nation. Another allusion to Ex. 19:6 (cf. Lev. 19:2; 20:26; Deut. 7:6; Is. 62:12). Tragically, Israel temporarily forfeited the great privilege of being the unique people of God through unbelief. Until Israel’s future acceptance of its Messiah, God has replaced the nation with the church. See notes on Rom. 11:1,2,25–29 for Israel’s salvation. His own special people. This combines phraseology found in Ex. 19:5; Is. 43:21; Mal. 3:17. Cf. Titus 2:14. proclaim the praises. “Proclaim,” an unusual word found in no other place in the NT, means to tell forth, to tell something not otherwise known. “Praises” are excellencies, virtues, eminent qualities. darkness … light. Cf. Acts 26:18; Eph. 5:8; Col. 1:13.

[DeaconDean]

I have an absolutely simple answer, I stand behind them and support them 100%. Why?

"And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee:" -Gen. 12:3 (KJV)

God Bless

Till all are one.

[français]

i am catholic, but still... here's my views..

i think that israel has the right to exist, and i don't have a problem.however, i do think that they should let palestine become its own country, and leave the palestinains alone.

i often wear a "free Palestine" shirt.. because i support a free palestine!! but that doesn't mean i don't support israel.. because i do.. i just don't support what they're doing to the palestinians.

as to Biblical prophesies.. i think it fufulled them. but i don't have too much knowledge on that.

i' friends with lots of baptists, and baptists seem to be VERY conservative.. hence, most are staunch supporters of israel.

[BereanTodd]

My thoughts exactly! All Jews and Gentiles who are baptized into Christ are children of Abraham, and thus members of the commonwealth of Israel.

Abraham has more than one child, as did Isaac. Not all children of Abraham are of Israel. One must be born of Jacob to be of Israel.

Now, yes we are grafted onto the tree of Israel (Romans 11) and by that become partakers in the promises to them as a matter, but Paul is also clear in that passage that God has NOT totally cast off natural Israel, and that there will be a grafting back on of the natural branches.

As to modern national Israel, I think it is possible that it is a fulfillment of Biblical prophecy, but it is not nescasarily so. I do support Israel, as Deacon said, "I will bless them that bless you and curse them that curse you" has never been taken away.

[Salamon]

I'm with Arunma - I don't think national Israel has anything to do with Scriptural prophecy. As I understand Scripture - the new Israel refers to the church.

Yes I would agree also!! Here are some great sermons on the subject! If you care to listen to them, in my opinion at least he does a very good job of showing it Biblically! So enjoy, or dont!! But either way God bless Chris!
http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?sourceonly=true&currSection=sermonssource&keyword=gracechurch&subsetcat=series&subsetitem=The+Israel+of+God