"Preach Christ crucified unto them which are called"

[Hagios17]

"But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God." 1 Corinthians 1:23-24

[MrJim]

Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

[MrJim]

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

[Seeker of the Truth]

Amen, Menno.

[Hagios17]

0--0

[Hagios17]

I'm not sure what you mean menno, and have no idea why you are saying amen spsucj. Do you know what he is saying or even what I was saying.

[Hagios17]

Honestly, I don't see why there has to be confusion about this verse. It implies we preach to all men, but I just thought it interesting that it says that we preach to the called of God.

Why is it that whenever the Word speaks about God's adopted/called/elected children that....

Aaah, of course. The spirit of this world.

We need lots of maturing, indeed.

[MrJim]

John 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

[MrJim]

1Tim2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

[MrJim]

Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

[Hagios17]

You may think I was encouraging predestination, but I was actually encouraging preaching christ crucified, it only occured to me lately that what I titled implied election.

But I don't see why you should have such a problem with election.

And as for the verses you pose, don't compare Biblical jargon to modern understanding. Context will define all men. Saying "all men" or "whosoever" of whosoever is all humanity is still an uncontextual assumption. If you gonna state a case, rather show me what all men refers to. Isolation... its like scab over eyes.

[MrJim]

You may think I was encouraging predestination, but I was actually encouraging preaching christ crucified, it only occured to me lately that what I titled implied election.

But I don't see why you should have such a problem with election.

And as for the verses you pose, don't compare Biblical jargon to modern understanding. Context will define all men. Saying "all men" or "whosoever" of whosoever is all humanity is still an uncontextual assumption. If you gonna state a case, rather show me what all men refers to. Isolation... its like scab over eyes.

I was converted from the mennonites to hardcore calvinism when you were still in diapers little brother. I lived it for a decade before moving on...there is much to this mystery we don't understand...like that last post from Acts 13:48 I posted...

Know that the life of Christianity really isn't bound up in theology. It's a fun sport, acting like we're "defending the faith" and all, but when you get down to it we're just counting angels dancing on pinheads. Unless our faith is working the streets, workplaces, families, the hearts of people, it's just dead, don't care how "perfect" or "pretty" or "spiritual" it might be. It's just dead...I think James said that.

Something else James said:

James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain. 27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Micah 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

Again real faith is shown more by doing and less by "talk" and theology.

But the most haunting passage of scripture for me continues to be Matt 25:31-46 with the judgement of the separation of sheep and goats.

There are people that are saying "but Lord" and yet the Lord didn't know them. And the judgement is shown by their actions, not by their theology or denomination. And that's my biggest fear for calvinists-that some are thinking that judgement means nothing because "I'm elect" so all is cool...

Anyhow, just some thoughts for ya Hagios. When you're young and full of p*ss and vinegar life is something to grab by the tail and tear into--I was there hoss. And yet as I look at the past there have been plenty of times where I knew I was absolutely right, and it turned out to be something different and I was wrong--and I ain't just talking about issues of understanding God-it spills into all areas of life. Yup, I could be completely wrong in my understanding of scripture..as I said earlier, there is much mystery to this faith we hold, and yet it seems a lot of mystery gets sucked out and replaced with dogma until God becomes some kind of an empty statue or a tired computer program.

Know that calvinists and arminians don't have to be enemies. We do both agree that the gospel message is the same-"Repent, for the Kingdom of God is at hand". You will say that the elect will eventually hear and repent and I'll say all are saveable and those that respond to the message will repent. So on the face of things we can agree that much. And while there is a tendency, calvinism doesn't teach antinomianism-so there is a call to act on faith. And while there is a tendency, arminianism doesn't teach legalism-just a call to depend upon the grace of God for our salvation. Unfortunately it tends to just be a game of oneupsumanship--who can come up with the better arguement, instead of focusing more on the lost and enjoying the fellowship of believers and learning from each other. One of the great things I've learned from my time as a calvinist is understanding the nature of sin and the holiness of God...it has always stuck to me.

yikes...went a little long here--Peace to ya!

[Everlasting]

I often wonder if people understand who Jesus was.

The Spirit of Jesus is any person in the world today.

Any Executive or any Person who believes they are on top of the world. In a twinkling of an eye; anyone could
become without.

Criminals were hung on the cross next to Jesus.

By this: blessing and forgiving of their sins with his death, and resurrection.

Did that make Jesus any less than what he was?


Bless:
to consecrate or sanctify by a religious rite; make or pronounce holy.

Since they died on the crosses next to Jesus, A death without the word of God

Did this not cast yet another mockery toward Jesus.

How then would they be saved without a pronouncement? It is done.

The Spirit of Jesus is any person, who one might have been slighted by another; for no reason in their life.
Have you ever done this to another person? then there is no reason not to believe. Jesus existed;
and he too suffered persecution.

If you find that you can believe there was a Jesus, then we go further to admit there is a God, and that he is in control of everything.

Through a slight of hand, you may have ministered
a soul to God, thereby making that soul innocent, and putting your own motives into question.

Looking at the concept of : Conspiracy and Jesus

People conspired to put Jesus to death.
The people who wanted his death, did not believe he was the son of God.

The slight of hand: is Jesus being crucified.
His soul was again made innocent of this world.
When he arose; the motives by which his death was required; were brought into question.

Many people began to believe after his resurrection.
His death glorified God's word; more than any of his
betrayers wanted to admonish.

God's word is the word of peace.


Isa 27:6 He shall cause them that come of Jacob to take root: Israel shall blossom and bud,
and fill the face of the world with fruit.


Everlasting
Bible Inspired Author
New Inspirational/Spiritual Science Fiction Novel
Moon Over Key Biscayne
booksandmore.4t.com


:groupray:
May God Continue to Bless your Lives

[BereanTodd]

Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

This verse is out of step with the rest of what you have been posting. This verse says that those who were ordained believed. Not the other way around. The predestined beleived. That is what that verse teaches. It is one of the clear calvinistic verses my friend.

[MrJim]

This verse is out of step with the rest of what you have been posting. This verse says that those who were ordained believed. Not the other way around. The predestined beleived. That is what that verse teaches. It is one of the clear calvinistic verses my friend.

Yeah I know, I was just checking to see if anyone was paying attention:P

You'll note it's referenced in my earlier post...

[MrJim]

Other cool preaching verses:

1Tim 4:11 These things command and teach. 12 Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity. 13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine. 14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery. 15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all. 16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

[MrJim]

I always thought of this as a preaching verse but wouldn't have to be:

James 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

[JPPT1974]

Remember we can't save ourselves but
Only God through Jesus Christ can save us

[Hagios17]

You may think I was encouraging predestination, but I was actually encouraging preaching christ crucified, it only occured to me lately that what I titled implied election.

But I don't see why you should have such a problem with election.

And as for the verses you pose, don't compare Biblical jargon to modern understanding. Context will define all men. Saying "all men" or "whosoever" of whosoever is all humanity is still an uncontextual assumption. If you gonna state a case, rather show me what all men refers to. Isolation... its like scab over eyes.

Yo meanno;)

I was converted from the Mennonites to hardcore calvinism when you were still in diapers little brother. I lived it for a decade before moving on...there is much to this mystery we don't understand...like that last post from Acts 13:48 I posted...

Mennonite? Wow.

I’m not a Calvinist.

The mystery is indeed a mystery. For we see in part, and prophesy in part. It seams so vague, yet it is only truly a mystery of foolishness to those who are blind and dumb, but to those who see and are called of God, it is the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

“Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.” 1 Corinthians 1:25

“like that last post from Acts 13:48 I posted...” – you have no argument here as I have said: “don't compare Biblical jargon to modern understanding.” i.e. “whosoever” is meaningless when you isolate it. Your argument is thus inferior, and I say this not in disrespect to your authority old man:P. Isolation, better yet, the logical fallacy of equivocation, yes… that’s it, is the worst forms of argument, plus it is extremely deceptive. And is the foundational base of ecumenism.

*Equivocation: denoting that a word/phrase means the same thing no matter the context it is functioning in. = isolation tactics

The reason why some say deriving your belief system from verses is dangerous is because verses are “divisions” of understanding and truth. Thus if you derive your understanding from broken scripture, you will of course have a broken system. (i.e. assuming John 3:16 apart from chapter 1,2 and 3…) So in effect its not so much the case that people are diligently studying the bible and ending up with broken truth, but rather that they esteem some other external idea and principle. And because of their traditions they make the Word of God of none effect. Isolation tactics are deadly.

Know that the life of Christianity really isn't bound up in theology. It's a fun sport, acting like we're "defending the faith" and all, but when you get down to it we're just counting angels dancing on pinheads. Unless our faith is working the streets, workplaces, families, the hearts of people, it's just dead, don't care how "perfect" or "pretty" or "spiritual" it might be. It's just dead...I think James said that.

Can I see the scripture. Honestly I don’t know what “angels dancing on pinheads” and the rest is as posed to mean. No disrespect homes, but could you clear up what you mean a little, it kinda sounds like Chinese:P

Something else James said:

James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain. 27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Micah 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

Again real faith is shown more by doing and less by "talk" and theology.

Faith is the fruit of the Holy Spirit. This true faith that you are talking about is in fact the “religious faith”.

There was this one missionary who went out to Africa, and he wanted to save the world, and he tied his hardest to be modest and loving and caring and apt to teach and meek and all and all things spiritual. And I think he even cried during the sermon he preached, but it wasn’t enough. (All this was like plastic silicon. It was false. A false religion he had produced and a false reality.) Till one day he just gave in and went to the Lord. Then the love started flowing out.

So, no. I don’t think true faith comes from action (verbum), as is taught in Romanism. True faith is a fruit of the Spirit:

Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

But the most haunting passage of scripture for me continues to be Matt 25:31-46 with the judgement of the separation of sheep and goats.

Matthew 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
There are people that are saying "but Lord" and yet the Lord didn't know them. And the judgement is shown by their actions, not by their theology or denomination. And that's my biggest fear for calvinists-that some are thinking that judgement means nothing because "I'm elect" so all is cool...

Those whom we acted justly toward, so-called, is not all humanity. These are the ecclesia this passage is talking about, and that is why God says:

Matthew 25:35-36 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

… “in Christ”

Those who are joined to Christ are one spirit.

God prepared for us a Kingdom from the foundations of the world, because we are his, because we are together in spirit. One spirit. -- That’s what I am seeing in the passage. Have any new ideas about the passage?

Anyhow, just some thoughts for ya Hagios. When you're young and full of p*ss and vinegar life is something to grab by the tail and tear into--I was there hoss. And yet as I look at the past there have been plenty of times where I knew I was absolutely right, and it turned out to be something different and I was wrong--and I ain't just talking about issues of understanding God-it spills into all areas of life. Yup, I could be completely wrong in my understanding of scripture..as I said earlier, there is much mystery to this faith we hold, and yet it seems a lot of mystery gets sucked out and replaced with dogma until God becomes some kind of an empty statue or a tired computer program.

Even though you are trying to pose an attack on Calvinism, shame for Calvin. I couldn’t agree more with what you are saying here. Though you may think I am a religious zealot blinded by some strange mystic from the first century or maybe even the devil himself, I think it is more that I am like a franklin trying to eat seeds through a straw, when there is a infinite accumulation of mono-, di- and polysaccharides deposited in me already. That which I want to do I don’t do, and that which I do do, I don’t want to do:sigh:

Know that calvinists and arminians don't have to be enemies. We do both agree that the gospel message is the same-"Repent, for the Kingdom of God is at hand". You will say that the elect will eventually hear and repent and I'll say all are saveable and those that respond to the message will repent. So on the face of things we can agree that much. And while there is a tendency, calvinism doesn't teach antinomianism-so there is a call to act on faith. And while there is a tendency, arminianism doesn't teach legalism-just a call to depend upon the grace of God for our salvation. Unfortunately it tends to just be a game of oneupsumanship--who can come up with the better arguement, instead of focusing more on the lost and enjoying the fellowship of believers and learning from each other. One of the great things I've learned from my time as a calvinist is understanding the nature of sin and the holiness of God...it has always stuck to me.

I’m not familiar with the theology of Antinomianism, but I know what legalism is all about, and an oneupsumanship, lol… ummm, okay.

But what I can say is truth is not relative in self-proclaiming Christian circles so we don’t go around uniting Calvinism and Arminianism* and teaching that Predestination and Roman Catholic free will are reconcilable, but we do go around doing this because of ignorant brethren who have been infected with syncretistic, existential and Hegelian philosophy. If theologies differ, they differ. If someone has a prophecy or dream and it differs from the Bible, it is not “a” truth. But as for Calvinists loving Arminians, amen. I think they should do more of that brother. Love your enemy. But I don’t believe those who go around preaching works, free-will and self-saving and self-seeking are altogether enemies. Some of them are brothers and sister in Christ, just a little mixed up. But we love and pray for our enemies.





yikes...went a little long here--Peace to ya!

No problem. Peace to ya too brother:)

[JimfromOhio]

Menno, I was in an Anabaptist church for 20 some years and through this Anabaptist church, I have learned more about Reformed theology. There are many Anabaptists who are calvinists and holds Reformed theology. Just like Baptists, Anabaptists also are divided on doctrine of salvation doctrines.

[MrJim]

Menno, I was in an Anabaptist church for 20 some years and through this Anabaptist church, I have learned more about Reformed theology. There are many Anabaptists who are calvinists and holds Reformed theology. Just like Baptists, Anabaptists also are divided on doctrine of salvation doctrines.

Yeah the anabaptist church is in some disarray and has been for a long time, that's for sure. The historical position was not a reformed one at all. Baptizing infants? Eternal security? At some point one stops being anabaptist when they hold to these teachings.

But then again, what's it matter? We are on this free-for-all self interpretation of scripture-picking and choosing what we like "cafeteria-style" (like Catholics speak about among themselves), deciding what is acceptable or what is literal or figurative or culturally bound or whatever...whee!

[Hagios17]

Yo menno, sorry for calling you old man and homes and stuff, dont know what I was thinking. You are me elder, so I do apologise. So I'll understand if you don't respond to my post. Not all of it was said in disrespect though. I did the post at different times, so I was kinda in a stupid mood when I was saying homes and old man:sorry:

Anyways..

Be blessed in Yeshua

Peace and grace; the blood alone... Jesus saves alone

-Josh

[MrJim]

Yo menno, sorry for calling you old man and homes and stuff, dont know what I was thinking. You are me elder, so I do apologise. So I'll understand if you don't respond to my post. Not all of it was said in disrespect though. I did the post at different times, so I was kinda in a stupid mood when I was saying homes and old man:sorry:

Anyways..

Be blessed in Yeshua

Peace and grace; the blood alone... Jesus saves alone

-Josh

Well that's real nice of ya little brother...I don't mind being called an old man by a guy 20 years younger, 'cause I pick on the elderly guys at another forum I frequent that are 20 years older. One of my goals is to be an old man...one of those old guys you see at McDonald's at 6:00 am with a clutch of other old guys sitting around drinkin' coffee and watchin' everyone else go to work:thumbsup: