Archangel Gabriel and Islam

[AJB4]

Lately I've been thinking. Of course I don't believe in Islam as far as religion goes, but I've been wondering: Did Archangel Gabriel truly appear to Muhammad.

If he did, then obviously, he would be accursed (ie. Galatians 1:8 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=55&chapter=1&verse=8&version=9&context=verse)), and obviously, Islam, though a revelation from Archangel Gabriel, wouldn't have been a revelation from God. I'm just wondering, Is Archangel Gabriel accursed?!

Something definitely happened to Muhammad that night it did, whether it was truly a sign from God, a lie from Archangel Gabriel, or Muhammad had just partied too hard.

[Photios]

Well, given the Biblical appearances of St Gabriel, that episode with Mohammed seems quite out of character. I can't see that actually being Gabriel, but an enemy disguised as an "angel of light" certainly makes sense in the circumstances. On the other hand, Mohammed is said to have had many ecstatic visions under the circumstances of an epileptic seizure. Given the epileptics I've known, that one doesn't seem likely, since they never seem to remember anything that happened anywhere near the time, and needed sleep too much to dictate anything. As far as I'm concerned, Mohammed either had something else strangely wrong with him, or was receiving visions from the adversary.

[Orthosdoxa]

As far as I'm concerned, Mohammed either had something else strangely wrong with him, or was receiving visions from the adversary.

Yup.

There's some pretty sick stuff in the Koran.

I think the demons were involved.

[Shubunkin]

That is an interesting take on it.... I hadn't thought about it until now. I just thought it was his own wicked imaginations, and the partying too much idea sounds likely too. However, considering how successful the religion has become, perhaps there was something more involved than just that.

[Tsarina]

I think the devil came in the form of Archangel Gabriel.

[EmperorConstantine]

I have heard that Muhammad did suffer from hallucinations and other similar stuff. When you take this fact and add the fact that the demons do sometimes take the forms of those we love, I think the solution is quite obvious. :)

[zhilan]

The first time after the revelations began when Muhammad returned to his wife he told her, "My god, I'm either going insane or becoming a poet, and I don't know which is worse."

I actually learned that in my Islamic studies class. I always thought it was funny.

[Knowledge3]

I've studied Islam and saw a documentary on it.

The results are tragic from hatred and violence.

My friend and former Lutheran pastor told me that the Muslims worship a false god.

Pretty bold if you ask me.

[EmperorConstantine]

My friend and former Lutheran pastor told me that the Muslims worship a false god.

Pretty bold if you ask me.
Bold as well as accurate.

[buzuxi02]

Most likely Muhammed made up the whole thing. He wanted to make an alliance with the jewish tribes ( for advancing his merchant business) so he tried to pass himself off as a jewish prophet, when he couldnt convince them , he decided to turn to Mecca and pray towards mecca, no longer towards Jerusalem.

Most of Muhammeds knowledge probably came from the Monastery of St Katherine's of the Sinai. He may have studied there and picked up some knowledge. To this day the Sinai Monastery have a manifesto with muhammed's signature saying for his followers to never attack the monastery. In fact during the height of arab-muslim expansion, the monastery was the only place legally allowed for a muslim to convert to christianity.

This manifesto is recognized as authentic by the bedouin muslims of the sinai desert and consider St George as their patronsaint.

[MichaelArchangelos]

Islam is an evil, disgusting religion, founded by a narcissistic, psychopathic, self-proclaimed "prophet". Nobody ever saw the "revelations" of "Gabriel" except him.

It is not possible for Mohammed's visions to have come from God. Our Lord said "By their fruits ye shall know them", and the fruits of Islam are pretty bad - killings, forced conversions, suicide bombers, etc. And some of his "revelations" are a little too convenient (e.g. he lusted after his adopted son's wife, and he then got a "revelation" that he should make his son divorce her and marry her)

To truly see the barbaric results of Islam, go to www.faithfreedom.org

[AJB4]

Islam is an evil, disgusting religion, founded by a narcissistic, psychopathic, self-proclaimed "prophet". Nobody ever saw the "revelations" of "Gabriel" except him.

It is not possible for Mohammed's visions to have come from God. Our Lord said "By their fruits ye shall know them", and the fruits of Islam are pretty bad - killings, forced conversions, suicide bombers, etc. And some of his "revelations" are a little too convenient (e.g. he lusted after his adopted son's wife, and he then got a "revelation" that he should make his son divorce her and marry her)

To truly see the barbaric results of Islam, go to www.faithfreedom.org
One could say exactly the same thing about Christianity. Thousands of differing denominations for a start.
Oh, and don't think that there are heaps and heaps of Christian extremists also. For every Muslim extremist there would be a Christian extremist equally as bad. The only difference is that Muslim extremists get more press.

[repentant]

Most likely Muhammed made up the whole thing. He wanted to make an alliance with the jewish tribes ( for advancing his merchant business) so he tried to pass himself off as a jewish prophet, when he couldnt convince them , he decided to turn to Mecca and pray towards mecca, no longer towards Jerusalem.

Most of Muhammeds knowledge probably came from the Monastery of St Katherine's of the Sinai. He may have studied there and picked up some knowledge. To this day the Sinai Monastery have a manifesto with muhammed's signature saying for his followers to never attack the monastery. In fact during the height of arab-muslim expansion, the monastery was the only place legally allowed for a muslim to convert to christianity.

This manifesto is recognized as authentic by the bedouin muslims of the sinai desert and consider St George as their patronsaint.

I guess that explains the Mosque there..

[xristos.anesti]

We can not show the humble nature of our faith by attacking other faiths.

The question of truth is the question of corresponding points in subjective - without empirical - so lets not go attacking other blind faith based on what we - the blind - can see, for the same arguments used to prove can be used to disprove.

Islam is the faith of more than 1/6th of the population of this planet - faith that has kept people going for 1400 years and more, the faith that did not have a problem co-existing with other faiths in One God - something not particularly present in other faiths in One God - including one that is represented on these forums - especially the one represented on these forums.

Islam is not an evil religion - no idea defining hope in better tomorrow is ever evil - it is the sickness of this race of ours that makes good ideas evil -

Islam has shown respect towards Christ long before we have shown respect towards Islam -

Every action has an appropriate reaction - if you start a war in the name of the cross - you will, in return, have a war in the name of a crescent moon.

None is innocent and none good.

I do not agree with Islam - therefore I am not a moslem - but should I attack the simple faith of millions of poor that got bombed by the rich just because the rich are Christians and accuse them for reacting in murderous way when being murdered.

I believe that Orthodox should not attack other faiths - ever, even when it is hard not to, even when we think that we have a right to do so - for how can a blind one attack other blinds for being blind? Or how can an evil one attack evil for being evil?

Humility brothers, humility.

Maranatha.
ICXC
NIKA

[AJB4]

We can not show the humble nature of our faith by attacking other faiths.

The question of truth is the question of corresponding points in subjective - without empirical - so lets not go attacking other blind faith based on what we - the blind - can see, for the same arguments used to prove can be used to disprove.

Islam is the faith of more than 1/6th of the population of this planet - faith that has kept people going for 1400 years and more, the faith that did not have a problem co-existing with other faiths in One God - something not particularly present in other faiths in One God - including one that is represented on these forums - especially the one represented on these forums.

Islam is not an evil religion - no idea defining hope in better tomorrow is ever evil - it is the sickness of this race of ours that makes good ideas evil -

Islam has shown respect towards Christ long before we have shown respect towards Islam -

Every action has an appropriate reaction - if you start a war in the name of the cross - you will, in return, have a war in the name of a crescent moon.

None is innocent and none good.

I do not agree with Islam - therefore I am not a moslem - but should I attack the simple faith of millions of poor that got bombed by the rich just because the rich are Christians and accuse them for reacting in murderous way when being murdered.

I believe that Orthodox should not attack other faiths - ever, even when it is hard not to, even when we think that we have a right to do so - for how can a blind one attack other blinds for being blind? Or how can an evil one attack evil for being evil?

Humility brothers, humility.

Maranatha.
ICXC
NIKA
:amen:

[Photios]

There is good in all religions. I do not mean this in a universalist sense. What I mean is that, since we are Created in the Divine Image, nothing that is totally false will be followed by any person. Were there no good in a religion, no one would follow it. It is possible to learn good things from any religion, whether it be Islam, paganism, Taoism, Confucianism, Buddhism, etc. Often, at least for me, it's actually easier because such things are often expressed in a more simplistic fashion and easier to understand. I can't recall the exact quote, but St Basil the Great once enjoined us to learn the wisdom of others but avoid falling into the same errors. I approach anything non-EO in that manner.

[ufonium2]

[quote=xristos.anesti;33115211]
Islam is the faith of more than 1/6th of the population of this planet - faith that has kept people going for 1400 years and more, the faith that did not have a problem co-existing with other faiths in One God - something not particularly present in other faiths in One God - including one that is represented on these forums - especially the one represented on these forums.

You're saying that Islam has never had a problem co-existing with other faiths?


Islam has shown respect towards Christ long before we have shown respect towards Islam - Their "Christ" has almost nothing to do with ours. They rewrote the story and made Him a prophet, which he absolutely was not, and to make His resurrection a slight-of-hand trick. Is that respect?


I do not agree with Islam - therefore I am not a moslem - but should I attack the simple faith of millions of poor that got bombed by the rich just because the rich are Christians and accuse them for reacting in murderous way when being murdered.This is condescending toward Muslims, and makes no sense. How is Islam a "simple faith." They've got tons of books, a bunch of branches, their own theologians, feasts and fasts, etc., just like Christianity or Judaism. So what's "simple" about Islam?

And what does rich and poor have to do with anything? Is someone automatically in the right because they are poor? Can the poor do no wrong, and the rich no right? I find it incredible that you think it absurd to side with someone just because they are Christian, but yet you will cite someone's poverty as a reason to side with them. Besides, the Middle East is hardly poor. Saudi Arabia has so much spare change that they're building gold-roofed mosques in Tennessee. If they choose not to give their money to other Arab societies, but rather to use it to spread their ideologies to the US and UK, who is to blame?



I believe that Orthodox should not attack other faiths - ever, even when it is hard not to, even when we think that we have a right to do so - for how can a blind one attack other blinds for being blind? Or how can an evil one attack evil for being evil?
I am evil, and deeply flawed. But my faith, Orthodox Christianity, is not. Christianity is right, and good. And Orthodoxy is perfect Christianity. We as people are far from perfect and far from good, but we as Orthodox can say that our faith is perfect and good. And we can also say that other faiths are wrong.

[Matrona]

We can not show the humble nature of our faith by attacking other faiths.

The question of truth is the question of corresponding points in subjective - without empirical - so lets not go attacking other blind faith based on what we - the blind - can see, for the same arguments used to prove can be used to disprove.

Islam is the faith of more than 1/6th of the population of this planet - faith that has kept people going for 1400 years and more, the faith that did not have a problem co-existing with other faiths in One God - something not particularly present in other faiths in One God - including one that is represented on these forums - especially the one represented on these forums.

Islam is not an evil religion - no idea defining hope in better tomorrow is ever evil - it is the sickness of this race of ours that makes good ideas evil -

Islam has shown respect towards Christ long before we have shown respect towards Islam -

Every action has an appropriate reaction - if you start a war in the name of the cross - you will, in return, have a war in the name of a crescent moon.

None is innocent and none good.

I do not agree with Islam - therefore I am not a moslem - but should I attack the simple faith of millions of poor that got bombed by the rich just because the rich are Christians and accuse them for reacting in murderous way when being murdered.

I believe that Orthodox should not attack other faiths - ever, even when it is hard not to, even when we think that we have a right to do so - for how can a blind one attack other blinds for being blind? Or how can an evil one attack evil for being evil?

Humility brothers, humility.

Maranatha.
ICXC
NIKA

AMEN, AMEN, AMEN!

Thank you, xristos anesti. :clap: I get weary of Orthodox who say cruel things about Muslims and about me for not regarding them as "evil".

[stivvy]

Some of the statements here seem to confirm my belief that when the scripture speaks of the AntiChrist coming into the world and attains followers and power on the platform of peace, that it speaks of Islam.

Many follow it and are peaceful practicers and the media and it's leaders calls it the religion of peace. But we can sit back and observe that, in general, and on a larger view of it's practice since it's creation, that it is anything but peaceful.

Just MHO!:wave:

[stivvy]

One could say exactly the same thing about Christianity. Thousands of differing denominations for a start.
Oh, and don't think that there are heaps and heaps of Christian extremists also. For every Muslim extremist there would be a Christian extremist equally as bad. The only difference is that Muslim extremists get more press.

Three points.

1.) There are no Major Christian leaders (especially catholic and orthodox) that call doe holy wars and death to entire nations and get humans to blow themselves up for a faith killing anyone in their path.

2.) I have never seen a christian fly airplanes into buildings to kill thousands upon thousands of innocent humans.

3.) There is not mass efforts in the christian organizations setting up funding for training and educating, and hiding and abetting killers in the name of God.

If they have issue with politics and economics then deal with it across a table. Otherwise we have to fight back for our own survival. Do you think that if we don't respond that there would be no other attacks even wider spread and more intense? It is due to our response that we haven't had new major incodents on my homeland and averted elsewhere. IMHO.

[repentant]

Well said ufonium..

[Photios]

Many follow it and are peaceful practicers and the media and it's leaders calls it the religion of peace. But we can sit back and observe that, in general, and on a larger view of it's practice since it's creation, that it is anything but peaceful.

Just MHO!:wave:

Oh, it is a "religion of peace." The problem enters when it is realized that it is peace under Islam, not just peace in a general sense. I believe wholeheartedly in freedom of religion, but that concept simply cannot really exist in Islam. Even the Koranic "tolerance" of Christianity and Judaism still lowers Jews and Christians to some sort of second class people.

[Orthocat]

Mohommed suffered from hallucinations and received no spiritual guidance - much like Jim Jones on his heroin.
It's interesting that around this time St Simeon the Stylite was learning.
If only Mohammed had sought spiritual counsel we may have a different world.

[Dust and Ashes]

Oh, it is a "religion of peace." The problem enters when it is realized that it is peace under Islam, not just peace in a general sense. I believe wholeheartedly in freedom of religion, but that concept simply cannot really exist in Islam. Even the Koranic "tolerance" of Christianity and Judaism still lowers Jews and Christians to some sort of second class people.

I got a small taste of that mindset recently when I joined a muslim board to try and learn a bit about it. Everyone was so nice and accepting as long as you understand you can't post anything that "calls to a religion other than Islam" or be critical of Islam in any way. It seems that must be what it's like to be a Christian in a muslim society, you are free to be a Christian, just not overtly.

[Orthosdoxa]

There are 30 large scale conflicts on our planet right now.

Muslims are involved in 25 of them.

Many places that used to be primarily Orthodox, are now Muslim. And not bc the Muslims sweet-talked them either. I invite you learn about what happened to St. Raphael of Brooklyn's mother and their village when she was pg w/ him.

http://thereligionofpeace.com/ chronicles the continuous violence committed by Muslims.

Father Moses Berry said it best: "There is no such thing as a good Muslim. There are good people who happen to be Muslims, but Islam does not make anybody good."

They are lost and in need of the Gospel. but to deny the threat some of them pose to Western society is ignorant and foolish. Having taken some silly college course on religion does not mean you're more educated about Islam than anyone else who has read history and keeps up w/ the news, either. Read little green footballs (http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/) and Debbie Schlussel (http://www.debbieschlussel.com/)as well as TROP (http://thereligionofpeace.com/) for compiling of little-noticed news stories (you don't even have to read their commentary if you don't like it - just read the news), such as the recent Gallup poll stating that of the 1.2 billion Muslims on this planet, 84 million thought 9/11 was good and right, and another 840 million would not have stopped it.

Muhamed was a pervert and a murderer, and his followers continue w/ it today. To wit:

"A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate. If he penetrates and the child is harmed then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl, however would not count as one of his four permanent wives".

--the Ayatollah Khomeini

[EmperorConstantine]

If two things could happen in the Middle East, it could change the entire region as we know it.

1) lifting of the Sharia law. This would allow Muslims to convert much easily and allow Christians to live with a little more peace.

2) massive funding of Orthodox missionaries to the Middle East after step 1 has happened.


Or just send millions and millions of Greeks to Constantinople and attempt to reclaim the city.

[Dust and Ashes]

Or just send millions and millions of Greeks to Constantinople and attempt to reclaim the city.

Didn't an Orthodox Saint prophesy that Russia would take Constantinople from the Turks and give it back to the Greeks?

[MariaRegina]

I had someone sign my high school yearbook:

I will be your friend until Russia gets Hungary and fries Turkey in Greece.

[MichaelArchangelos]

The Koran actually tells Muslims to kill the "unbelievers". While there have been Christian fanatics who kill people, the Bible does not tell Christians to go out and slaughter those not of the faith and forcibly convert them.

"Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful," (Quran 9:5).

"And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers, (Quran 2:191).

The Koran also says that keeping slaves is permissible. Men are allowed to have sexual relations with slaves.

"O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those (slaves) whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee" (Quran 33:50)

How can a religion whose holy book calls for the killing of unbelievers and permits slavery be good?

[Dust and Ashes]

How can a religion whose holy book calls for the killing of unbelievers and permits slavery be good?

Stop!!



Dhimmi time! *que Hammer music*

Oh, but what about <insert OT quote where God told the Israelites to kill people>?

[EricTheRed]

haha!

[Hoankan]

I'm not going to say too much here but point out a few things.

Last Tuesday I had a discussion with a Muslem friend. We compaired notes on our faith (i.e. he told me about Islam's view of Christ) and it jogged something in my memory. The stuff he was quoting from was based on heretical texts.

As for the parlor trick, he seemed genuenly shocked about the story after the resurrection and many other 1st and 2nd century things I related to him (praise be to God who in during the time as a catachumen, I was guided to the helpful information for this discussion!).

I personally don't think returning the hatred that the extremists show to us is of any worth. The wisdom and truth is there, not just in the gospels but also in the tradition and history of the Church. They just need to know it.

[Dust and Ashes]

I personally don't think returning the hatred that the extremists show to us is of any worth. The wisdom and truth is there, not just in the gospels but also in the tradition and history of the Church. They just need to know it.

I agree completely. Great post. :thumbsup:

[Hoankan]

One other thing that just popped into my head is that Islam follows their form of Sola Scriptura without paying attention to their history. This can lead to the wide variety of interpretations that I've seen from very kind and caring to fundimental

[MichaelArchangelos]

It's wrong to hate Muslims, that is true. We must love all people the way Christ told us to.

But to love their false religion, and to say that it is true, is completely wrong. Error has no rights. While there may be some truth in Islam, Satan knows that if Islam was all lies, then no-one would follow it. A piece of candy containing 95% sugar and 5% cyanide will taste sweet, but that won't stop the cyanide from killing you.

There is a difference between loving Islam and loving Muslims. Imagine that there was a chemistry professor who taught that water was made up of hydrogen and carbon. Should you hate the professor and be nasty to him? No, you should respect him and show him the love that Christ instructed us to give to all mankind. But should you respect his false theory? No. It is totally wrong, and error has no rights.

[Orthosdoxa]

It's wrong to hate Muslims, that is true. We must love all people the way Christ told us to.

But to love their false religion... is completely wrong. Error has no rights.

:thumbsup:

While there may be some truth in Islam

There is no truth in Islam that Muhamed didn't lift from Orthodox Christianity.

There is a difference between loving Islam and loving Muslims.

Exactly. It's too bad that some folks have to label others as 'bigots' simply bc we're willing to call a belief system what it is.

I personally don't think returning the hatred that the extremists show to us is of any worth. The wisdom and truth is there, not just in the gospels but also in the tradition and history of the Church. They just need to know it.

Totally agree. But we must be careful not to confuse telling the Truth about some Islamic behaviors and beliefs with 'hatred'. Countries under shariah law practice honor rapes, honor killings, and frequently speak of wanting to wipe out America and Israel. Reporting on these hateful things is not BEING hateful. Nor is it saying 'ALL Muslims do this'. I should be able to say 'such and such is evil' w/o having to qualify it each and every time that, YES, Mrs. ThoughtPolicewoman ma'amsir, I KNOW that not every Muslim on earth engages in such and such evil practice.

[Matrona]

Wow. In 600 years, we've gone from "...a day will soon come when we shall be able to understand each other..." ...to this. :doh:

Pray for us, St. Gregory Palamas.

[Orthosdoxa]

Such self-righteous tripe is useless.

Nothing is being misunderstood.

Islam is a false religion.

Some Muslims are violent.

Pointing out truths, even negative ones, is not the same as misunderstanding.

[The Prokeimenon!]

In case anybody was wondering what Mohammad looked like, here's a picture:

http://prophetmohammed.co.uk/imagessite/danishcartoons/dane5.gif

Rdr Moses

[EricTheRed]

Ahhh...I love threads on Islam

[Dust and Ashes]

Ahhh...I love threads on Islam

Indeed. Here's some popcorn, hand me a beer.

[EricTheRed]

http://img.epinions.com/images/opti/8b/39/fddkBeersBy_NameShiner_Bock-resized200.gif
Shiner Boch for you! I think ill take some gummies instead of popcorn.

[The Prokeimenon!]

Ahhh...I love threads on Islam
I enjoy watching the dhimmis poop themselves with rage in response to one-liners and cartoons. Good times!

Rdr Moses

[Dust and Ashes]

Gummies and beer...why does that not surprise me?...

[EricTheRed]

The beer is for you. I shall stick with Dr. Pepper.

[Dust and Ashes]

Dhimmi poop corn and I don't care...dhimmi poop corn and I don't care...

Ok, Eric, what did you put in that Shiner?

[EricTheRed]

I didnt put anything! You are just a light weight!

[Dust and Ashes]

I didnt put anything! You are just a light weight!

Indeed.

I got the "fool" part down pat, I just need to work on the "for Christ" part. A lot. :sigh:

[gloryseven]

lol nice picture of Mohammed..'grin'

[EricTheRed]

Indeed.

I got the "fool" part down pat, I just need to work on the "for Christ" part. A lot. :sigh:
Don't we all :(

[Matrona]

Well, for what it's worth, my bowel control hasn't been perturbed by anything in this thread, mostly because none of it was surprising in the least. Sadly.

[Orthosdoxa]

Dhimmi poop corn and I don't care...dhimmi poop corn and I don't care...


ROFLOL!!!! That's the funniest thing I've read all day!

[EricTheRed]

http://img.shopping.com/cctool/PrdImg/images/pr/177X150/00/01/ec/6b/22/32271138.JPG

Just in case

[Dust and Ashes]

Continence is a virtue best left...undisgust...I mean undiscussed...I mean...oh, I don't know what I mean. Nevermind.

[Dust and Ashes]

Oh, and FTR, nothing I've written is directed at anyone, I'm just letting my idiocy spill out all over this thread because it's not like anything good is going to come of it anyway so I might as well dump it where it won't matter.

[EricTheRed]

Good idea. I tried keeping mine in the corner. Wow that can stink up a room.

[Orthosdoxa]

It's sad.

What's happening in the world is what's sad, not that people are honest enough to discuss it, rather than censuring themselves in order to appear politically correct and enlightened.

Why don't you save your sadness for the dozen or so women who are victims of honor killing every month, under sharia law? Or for the survivors of 9/11 victims, who suffer every day? Or for the hundreds of thousands of southern Sudan Christians, who face a terrible fate at the hands of the mujajideen - the men are killed and the women and children taken as slaves? (which has been going on for almost 25 years) Or all the people whose family members have been beheaded in Iraq, who have to know their loved ones' last memory was having their head slowly sawed off? Or the little reported torture of that Hispanic American solider who was kidnapped last summer, whose genitals were sawed off and shoved in his mouth while he was still alive? Or what is happening to Ethiopian Christians at the hands of Islamists, even as we speak? Or the incredibly high rape rate in Saudi Arabia, where any woman who dares to report it is jailed as an adulterer, bc she almost certainly lacks the 4 male witnesses required to corroborate her story? Or the constant "Death to America" (http://michellemalkin.com/archives/004448.htm) (and Europe) marches that happen all over the world? Or that the Ayatollah teaches that sex with INFANTS is okay? Or a recent secular report stating that Bangladeshi women live almost unbearable lives under sharia law, being treated as chattle from birth to death, that many are abused horribly by their husbands and their Islamic law condones this, and the high suicide rates of some Bangladeshi villages for that reason? Self-immolation - these women are setting themselves on fire bc they want to be SURE they die?

More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined.

Islamic terrorists murder more people every day than the Ku Klux Klan has in the last 50 years.

More civilians were killed by Muslim extremists in two hours on September 11th than in the 36 years of sectarian conflict in Northern Ireland.

19 Muslim hijackers killed more innocents in two hours on September 11th than the number of American criminals executed in the last 65 years.

Oh, but you're right - none of THESE things are sad - just our willingness to discuss them and condemn them is sad.

Think about this - certain people refuse to condemn the above acts, but will condemn others for speaking about them. Sharia winds are blowing, folks.

I have no problem with the average Muslim who's just living his life and not bothering anyone else. I pity him, for having been deceived into worshipping a false god.

I DO have a problem with Islam as an instituation, for people who take it to its logical conclusion end up doing the kinds of things mentioned above.

Doug "Ibrahim" Hooper, director of CAIR, has publically stated that he hopes someday America will be under sharia law. Perhaps then you'll be happy.

[xristos.anesti]

One part of me wants to unleash and argue.
The other wants to do what is right.

So, today I will do what's right -

many years - God bless.

[Orthosdoxa]

I'm glad you feel that's right, XA.

Believe it or not, I didn't want an argument. I just don't like people trying to censor me for speaking out against a belief system. That's the main reason I come out so strongly - there's a lot of pushback here on even being able to report on things happening in the world in regard to that religion, whether you editorialize on the event or not.

There are plenty of belief systems who espouse outrageous beliefs and actions. Radical feminism, for one. Gang philosophy (yes, there is such a thing). Satanism. Islam, particularly the Wahhabi sect. ANYBODY trapped in ANY of these systems deserves pity and prayer. But I find it disgusting that on "C"F, there are those who don't even want to let you speak out against the system itself - though I've only noticed it happening with Islam, not with other systems that are criticized. Someone can point me to a thread if I'm wrong.

[repentant]

Didn't an Orthodox Saint prophesy that Russia would take Constantinople from the Turks and give it back to the Greeks?

I heard that. That they would take back Agia Sofia...don't know who said it though..

Either way, the Liturgy that was started and never finished must end before the second coming...

[Theophorus]

When at a muslim restaurant, what type of wine would you order for this?
http://images.worldofstock.com/slides/PFO2900.jpg

I'm thinking Boone's Farm strawberry hill.

[repentant]

It's wrong to hate Muslims, that is true. We must love all people the way Christ told us to.

But to love their false religion, and to say that it is true, is completely wrong. Error has no rights. While there may be some truth in Islam, Satan knows that if Islam was all lies, then no-one would follow it. A piece of candy containing 95% sugar and 5% cyanide will taste sweet, but that won't stop the cyanide from killing you.

There is a difference between loving Islam and loving Muslims. Imagine that there was a chemistry professor who taught that water was made up of hydrogen and carbon. Should you hate the professor and be nasty to him? No, you should respect him and show him the love that Christ instructed us to give to all mankind. But should you respect his false theory? No. It is totally wrong, and error has no rights.

I love Muslims, but I hate Islam..

Actually, I am quite fond of some Muslim, or should I say Arabic things..food, music, etc. But that can be reflected from my Greek culture, since we share alot of things..

[Dust and Ashes]

Md 20/20

[repentant]

When at a muslim restaurant, what type of wine would you order for this?
http://images.worldofstock.com/slides/PFO2900.jpg

I'm thinking Boone's Farm strawberry hill.

For the woman, or for the food?

Now there is no need to mock Arabic food, it is pretty good.

[Theophorus]

Md 20/20

Only if it's served in a brown paper bag. I'm a stickler for tradition.

[MichaelArchangelos]

When at a muslim restaurant, what type of wine would you order for this?


The Koran calls wine "Satan's handiwork" and Muslims are forbidden to drink it, yet the Islamic paradise contains rivers of wine. How did Satan's handiwork end up in paradise?!

[Orthosdoxa]

Either way, the Liturgy that was started and never finished must end before the second coming...

Is that part of a prophecy or something? Tres cool.

[Orthosdoxa]

Despite my 4th grade type desire to make fun of his name, this is actually an interesting article. Now if we could just get about 100 million more like him to do this exact same thing, maybe there can be peace.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/03/23/60minutes/main2602308.shtml

[repentant]

Is that part of a prophecy or something? Tres cool.

Yes. A Liturgy was going on when the Turks came in, and it was never finished. According to the Prophecy, it will finish before the second coming.

Kai o stratiotis xupna (the soldier awakens).. according to the legend, a Turk soldier who came in was turned to stone, and is still there. He will awake before the end too. Not sure if it corresponds to the Liturgy finishing, or something else. But that was part of it that I read. I wish I remembered more...

[repentant]

You know, it's hard to be dark and have a beard these days...why of all things that they through out from Christianity, did they have to keep beards??

[OrthoCanuck]

The Koran calls wine "Satan's handiwork" and Muslims are forbidden to drink it, yet the Islamic paradise contains rivers of wine. How did Satan's handiwork end up in paradise?!


Having read the Qur'an I cannot remember where wine is called "Satan's handiwork." Can you provide a quote?


(EDIT: Never mind, I found it: Surah 5:90. Nice catch Michael! However, I'm sure there is some exegesis that explains it away...every faith can bend words to avoid contradictions)


Just curious.


As an ex-Muslim, I must say I find this thread...interesting.....


Peace.