Define Predestination

[Seeker of the Truth]

Can DeaconDean, Menno, or Ron please define Predestination?

Please, don't tell me to read my Bible, look in a dictionary, or pray about it because I have.

Thanks,

CJ

[IronWill]

Can DeaconDean, Menno, or Ron please define Predestination?

Please, don't tell me to read my Bible, look in a dictionary, or pray about it because I have and it still contradicts this whole idea that God chose specific people to believe Him and others He would punish for the fun of it.

Thanks,

CJ
It seems that you are:
A) Actually asking about double-predestinarianism.
B) Creating a straw-man belief that no Calvinist or Predestinationist actually believes(eg, God punishes people for the fun of it).

As such, your question is currently unanswerable. Can you rephrase it?

[JimfromOhio]

I like the way John MacArthur said:
What is taught in the Bible, is that we are chosen for salvation. Nowhere in the Scripture does it say that God chooses people to be damned--no place--it does not say that.

Ephesians 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

[PETE_]

The word predestinate (Gk. prooridzo) means “to mark out beforehand” (Eph. 1:5, 11; Rom. 8:29; Acts 4:28; 1 Cor. 2:7).[/URL]
[URL="http://www.christianforums.com/t5021338-define-predestination.html#_ftnref1"] (http://www.christianforums.com/t5021338-define-predestination.html#_ftn1)

[Seeker of the Truth]

It seems that you are:
A) Actually asking about double-predestinarianism.
B) Creating a straw-man belief that no Calvinist or Predestinationist actually believes(eg, God punishes people for the fun of it).

As such, your question is currently unanswerable. Can you rephrase it?

I don't have a question. I simply asked for a straight up definition of predestination.

[IronWill]

I don't have a question. I simply asked for a straight up definition of predestination.
No, you asked about double-predestiniarism.

First you stated you wanted to know about "predestination."

Then, you stated this: this whole idea that God chose specific people to believe Him and others He would punish for the fun of it.

The above is a caricature of Predestination, and is actually double-predestinarianism. It's not predestination.

[Seeker of the Truth]

No, you asked about double-predestiniarism.

First you stated you wanted to know about "predestination."

Then, you stated this: this whole idea that God chose specific people to believe Him and others He would punish for the fun of it.

The above is a caricature of Predestination, and is actually double-predestinarianism. It's not predestination.
Well, that's just confusing isn't it?

I'll edit it.

Thanks.

[mlqurgw]

Can DeaconDean, Menno, or Ron please define Predestination?

Please, don't tell me to read my Bible, look in a dictionary, or pray about it because I have.

Thanks,

CJ I thought you were done with me. :confused: Glad to know you aren't.
I believe I gave you the Biblical definition before but will be happy to do so again.
There are actually two ways it is viewed theologically: The theology of predestination which encompasses the whole of God's ordained purpose and providence and the simple Biblical use of the word. In every instance it is used in the Scriptures it refers to people rather than things. I prefer to use it in the Biblical sense instead of the theological sense. I consider it more conducive to understanding truth to study God's forordination of all things and His providence as separate but connected truths from God's predestination of people. While they all are tied together, to a great extent, they are different doctrines that need to be distinguished.

Simply put, God's predestination of people is His sovereign, electing love of some in Christ to everlasting glory and His leaving all others to their will. He did create those who perish in unbelief and does not desire to save them but they only get what we all deserve. The caricature of God creating people just to damn them is both unbiblical and untrue in the doctrines known as Calvinism. While it may be held among some of the fringe of Calvinists it certainly isn't a common belief among them. Nor is it a logical conclusion of the Biblical doctrines concerning God's electing love. Yes it is a doctrine of love.
I hope this gives you some help. It only becomes a complicated issue when man begins to exalt his will under the guise of it being free.
I have been and am still more than willing to give you all the assistance I can in understanding these truths but I will no longer argue with you about them. My purpose isn't to make you a Calvinist but only to help you at least understand what it is we believe. As long as you continue to ask in a manner that exhibits a willingness to at least consider what is said I will do my best to answer your questions.

[DeaconDean]

Can DeaconDean, Menno, or Ron please define Predestination?

Please, don't tell me to read my Bible, look in a dictionary, or pray about it because I have.

Thanks,

CJ

No offense, but right at this time, if I say what I believe "predestination" is after extensive study, somebody will take issue with it. So rather than get into another argument, I will just say,

God's predestination of people is His sovereign, electing love of some in Christ to everlasting glory and His leaving all others to their will. He did create those who perish in unbelief and does not desire to save them but they only get what we all deserve. The caricature of God creating people just to damn them is both unbiblical and untrue in the doctrines known as Calvinism. While it may be held among some of the fringe of Calvinists it certainly isn't a common belief among them. Nor is it a logical conclusion of the Biblical doctrines concerning God's electing love. Yes it is a doctrine of love.

^ See Ron's definition.^

God Bless

Till all are one.

[MrJim]

Can DeaconDean, Menno, or Ron please define Predestination?

Please, don't tell me to read my Bible, look in a dictionary, or pray about it because I have.

Thanks,

CJ

Dude, I'm just done arguing this particular thing here. It is obvious to me that Calvinists worship a different God for the two positions cannot be reconciled. There is much mystery in the predestination issue, but I do not believe it is as rational and cut-and-dried as the Calvinist position

I used to be Reformed Baptist/hardcore Calvinist and am not anymore. I'm at a Baptist church but wear the anabaptist icon-if ya want to chat about it post a thread over there and we can see what we can get into.

[Seeker of the Truth]

Thank you all whom posted.

My intentions of asking this question wasn't to argue, I'm tired of arguing and not getting anywhere. I wanted to know, for sure, what your beliefs on the subject of predestination as we all seem to have different interpretations.

There is no need to post in this thread any longer,

Thanks.