Sin and Eternal Life

[reddogs]

The New Testament teaches that Jesus Christ died for our sins so that we may inherit eternal life through Him.

For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures. 1 Corinthians 15:3

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. John 3:15

The scriptures Paul is referring to when he said that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures is the Old Testament, which predicted that Jesus would die for the sins of mankind. Isaiah spells out the affliction and suffering that the Messiah would have to go through to atone for our sins:

He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. Isaiah 53:3-6

So lets indentify the reason for God sending His Son Jesus, it was sin in the Garden of Eden. The Bible says that man fell when sin occured in the Garden of Eden so even at creation God's law defined sin, so God showed Adam what was sin and how out of love he would save man from sin.


Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 1 John 3:4


Sin is the transgression of the law of God. Moreover, sin carries a penalty, and that penalty is death, but in Christ the penalty is paid and we can have eternal life.

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23

Sin separates us from God and being separated from God means being separated from the source of life because God is the author and maintainer of life.

But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear. Isaiah 59:2

Since all mankind has transgressed the law of God, all mankind is in need of salvation.

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23

If salvation is a gift, then it follows that salvation is by grace and that my own works cannot save me.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God. Ephesians 2:8

And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. Romans 11:6

So we are saved by the grace of God through faith in the Son of God. Does this free us from obedience to God’s law or discard God's law?

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Romans 3:31

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? Romans 6:14-16

Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Romans 7:12

So sin (the transgression of God’s law) leads to death (eternal death) and grace leads to life (eternal life). But grace does not remove the obligation to keep God’s law, but rather establishes the law. The law cannot save me, but it can warn me by telling me what sin is.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. Romans 3:20

It is by grace that we are saved, delivered from sin, justified, restored and sanctified. Grace sets right the relationship with God, but the law tells us what sin is so that we may avoid it by the grace of God. A true conversion will fill the heart with gratitude and the restored person will once again want to live in harmony with the law of God. Jesus said:

If ye love me, keep my commandments. John 14:15

If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love. John 15:10

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 1 John 5:3


Now lets look at the story of Mary Magdalene when she was caught in adultery and brought before Jesus. She stood before Him condemned to death by the law.

And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? John 8: 3-5

The Law could not save her, but Jesus could. Not one of the accusers was without sin and all fell short of the glory of God. Having convicted them of their own sinfulness, they left one by one and left the trembling, guilty, repentant Mary behind. Jesus turned to her and said:

When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. John 8:10-11

The condemned sinner was forgiven and placed under grace: “Neither do I condemn thee,” but then she was obligated to henceforth keep the law “go, and sin no more.” To be saved by grace does therefore not relieve anyone from the duty of obedience to God’s law. Grace takes away the condemnation of the law, but it does not do away with the law.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:1

[Eila]

The New Testament teaches that Jesus Christ died for our sins so that we may inherit eternal life through Him.

For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures. 1 Corinthians 15:3

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. John 3:15

The scriptures Paul is referring to when he said that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures is the Old Testament, which predicted that Jesus would die for the sins of mankind. Isaiah spells out the affliction and suffering that the Messiah would have to go through to atone for our sins:

He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. Isaiah 53:3-6

So lets indentify the reason for God sending His Son Jesus, it was sin in the Garden of Eden. The Bible says that man fell when sin occured in the Garden of Eden so even at creation God's law defined sin, so God showed Adam what was sin and how out of love he would save man from sin.


Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 1 John 3:4


Sin is the transgression of the law of God. Moreover, sin carries a penalty, and that penalty is death, but in Christ the penalty is paid and we can have eternal life.

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23

Sin separates us from God and being separated from God means being separated from the source of life because God is the author and maintainer of life.

But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear. Isaiah 59:2

Since all mankind has transgressed the law of God, all mankind is in need of salvation.

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23

If salvation is a gift, then it follows that salvation is by grace and that my own works cannot save me.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God. Ephesians 2:8

And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. Romans 11:6

So we are saved by the grace of God through faith in the Son of God. Does this free us from obedience to God’s law or discard God's law?

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Romans 3:31

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? Romans 6:14-16

Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Romans 7:12

So sin (the transgression of God’s law) leads to death (eternal death) and grace leads to life (eternal life). But grace does not remove the obligation to keep God’s law, but rather establishes the law. The law cannot save me, but it can warn me by telling me what sin is.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. Romans 3:20

It is by grace that we are saved, delivered from sin, justified, restored and sanctified. Grace sets right the relationship with God, but the law tells us what sin is so that we may avoid it by the grace of God. A true conversion will fill the heart with gratitude and the restored person will once again want to live in harmony with the law of God. Jesus said:

If ye love me, keep my commandments. John 14:15

If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love. John 15:10

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 1 John 5:3


Now lets look at the story of Mary Magdalene when she was caught in adultery and brought before Jesus. She stood before Him condemned to death by the law.

And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? John 8: 3-5

The Law could not save her, but Jesus could. Not one of the accusers was without sin and all fell short of the glory of God. Having convicted them of their own sinfulness, they left one by one and left the trembling, guilty, repentant Mary behind. Jesus turned to her and said:

When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. John 8:10-11

The condemned sinner was forgiven and placed under grace: “Neither do I condemn thee,” but then she was obligated to henceforth keep the law “go, and sin no more.” To be saved by grace does therefore not relieve anyone from the duty of obedience to God’s law. Grace takes away the condemnation of the law, but it does not do away with the law.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:1


Grace is unmerited favor.
Grace is unmerited favor.

Galatians 5 "18But if you are guided (led) by the [Holy] Spirit, you are not subject to the Law."

Galatians 6 "4But far be it from me to glory [in anything or anyone] except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah) through Whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world!
15For neither is circumcision [now] of any importance, nor uncircumcision, but [only] a new creation [the result of a new birth and a new nature in Christ Jesus, the Messiah]."

Romans 4 "16Therefore, [inheriting] the promise is the outcome of faith and depends [entirely] on faith, in order that it might be given as an act of grace (unmerited favor), to make it stable and valid and guaranteed to all his descendants--not only to the devotees and adherents of the Law, but also to those who share the faith of Abraham, who is [thus] the father of us all."

[reddogs]

It seems we are getting there, "depends [entirely] on faith, in order that it might be given as an act of grace", is exactly what I said before. We cannot judge ourselves as without sin or iniquity, it has to be by faith that we accept grace and let the Holy Spirit do its work. If we then however, like Adam lose our faith in God and turn away from the truth as given to us in the complete word of God and go back into sin as the Law shows us, and ignore the Holy Spirit, we can actually reject the Holy Spirit and be lost. So make sure it is the true Spirit you are following as it must be in agreement with and its testimony from the same source as God and His Son Jesus Christ.

Matthew 12:32 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=12&verse=32&version=31&context=verse)
Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Mark 3:29 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=48&chapter=3&verse=29&version=31&context=verse)
But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."

Revelation 12:17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=73&chapter=12&verse=17&version=9&context=verse)
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

[Eila]

It seems we are getting there, "depends [entirely] on faith, in order that it might be given as an act of grace", is exactly what I said before. We cannot judge ourselves as without sin or iniquity, it has to be by faith that we accept grace and let the Holy Spirit do its work.

It is not that we judge ourselves, the that the Word of God says that we are without sin.

Romans 8:10 " But if Christ lives in you, [then although] your [natural] body is dead by reason of sin and guilt, the spirit is alive because of [the] righteousness [that He imputes to you]."

1 Corinthians 1:30 "30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— 31 that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the LORD.”

Romans 5 "17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)"

Ephesians 4 "23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness."

Philippians 3 " And that I may [actually] be found and known as in Him, not having any [self-achieved] righteousness that can be called my own, based on my obedience to the Law's demands (ritualistic uprightness and supposed right standing with God thus acquired), but possessing that [genuine righteousness] which comes through faith in Christ (the Anointed One), the [truly] right standing with God, which comes from God by [saving] faith."

2 Corinthians 5 "21For our sake He made Christ [virtually] to be sin Who knew no sin, so that in and through Him we might become [[endued with, viewed as being in, and examples of] the righteousness of God [what we ought to be, approved and acceptable and in right relationship with Him, by His goodness]."


If we then however, like Adam lose our faith in God and turn away from the truth as given to us in the complete word of God and go back into sin as the Law shows us, and ignore the Holy Spirit, we can actually reject the Holy Spirit and be lost.

If we no longer believe in Jesus as our Savior then we are lost. We aren't lost because we sin, but because we no longer accept Jesus as our Savior. Sinning does not change our status as a child of God. Divorcing our parent and refusing to have anything to do with them does.

You are not sinning if you don't keep the old covenant laws. You sin if you don't keep the new covenant laws.

Remember the definition that says sin is the transgression of the law if found in 1 John where we also find our commandments in the new covenant:

1 John 3 " 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment."

[Jon0388g]

If we no longer believe in Jesus as our Savior then we are lost. We aren't lost because we sin, but because we no longer accept Jesus as our Savior. Sinning does not change our status as a child of God. Divorcing our parent and refusing to have anything to do with them does.

I don't think its as simple as that. 1 John 3:6 says "No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him." One sin here = not knowing Christ. This is why we must die daily to sin, repenting and confessing, growing in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Saviour. And I believe the more we confess and repent, the less we will sin.

"No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him, and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." 1 John 3:9

You are not sinning if you don't keep the old covenant laws. You sin if you don't keep the new covenant laws.

So, I could kill you right now, and not be sinning? The Law of Christ is the Spiritual Ten Commandments.

[freeindeed2]

I don't think its as simple as that. 1 John 3:6 says "No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him." One sin here = not knowing Christ. This is why we must die daily to sin, repenting and confessing, growing in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Saviour. And I believe the more we confess and repent, the less we will sin.

"No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him, and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." 1 John 3:9

So, I could kill you right now, and not be sinning? The Law of Christ is the Spiritual Ten Commandments.
LOL!:thumbsup: Yeah, good one! You're joking right? How in the world would God living in us, controlling our minds, lead us to murder each other? Think man! It says he CANNOT sin! If your narrow definition of sin is only the 10 commandments, you still don't measure up, because you break them. Ever lusted after a woman? Ever been angry at someone? Those don't break the 10, but they're sin! Think! Get out of the old covenant/10 commandments/ministration of death!

[Jon0388g]

LOL!:thumbsup: Yeah, good one! You're joking right? How in the world would God living in us, controlling our minds, lead us to murder each other? Think man! It says he CANNOT sin! If your narrow definition of sin is only the 10 commandments, you still don't measure up, because you break them. Ever lusted after a woman? Ever been angry at someone? Those don't break the 10, but they're sin! Think! Get out of the old covenant/10 commandments/ministration of death!

I quote a Biblical text. And you point the finger at me, with four pointing back at yourself.

Read your Bible, instead of inspecting my sinful life. Even Eila does not agree with your philosophy of zero-free will. I find it tiresome discussing anything with you because of this huge error in your beliefs.

Jon

[freeindeed2]

I quote a Biblical text. And you point the finger at me, with four pointing back at yourself.

Read your Bible, instead of inspecting my sinful life. Even Eila does not agree with your philosophy of zero-free will. I find it tiresome discussing anything with you because of this huge error in your beliefs.

Jon
I didn't point a finger at you. I simply pointed out that sin is MUCH MORE than the elementary 'schoolmaster' 10 commandments. It goes to the core of our nature! I'm not pointing at you, I'm pointing to Jesus and HIS righteousness, because neither you NOR me has any.

I read my Bible every day and I'm not a 'fruit inspector' like most SDA's are. I've never denied 'free-will', I've only said that man's 'free-will' is infected with his/her 'sin nature'. I don't know if Eila agrees or disagrees with me, but I do know that the core of who we are is sinful and not in line with God. Conversion is a supernatural work of the Holy Spirit in us, not some work we perform on our own.

If relying on Jesus for my salvation is a 'huge error in my beliefs' then so be it. I'd rather be with Jesus than the 'save yourself' retorhic I've heard from SDA's in this discussion here. The HUGE error you refer to is that 'you can save yourself, or that you play a part in saving yourself'. I find that tiresome sometimes too, but it's a false teaching and I will stand against it every time.

God bless.

[reddogs]

I feel it is a continuous struggle against sin as long we are exposed to evil and it's resulting sin........... I agree with your thinking in line with "and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness." which in my opinion puts you back to the sinless state of Adam before sin. But, then again Adam still fell.


1 John 1:8 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=69&chapter=1&verse=8&version=31&context=verse)
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

Romans 3:20 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=3&verse=20&version=31&context=verse)
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

[freeindeed2]

I feel it is a continuous struggle against sin as long we are exposed to evil and it's resulting sin........... I agree with your thinking in line with "and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness." which in my opinion puts you back to the sinless state of Adam before sin. But, then again Adam still fell.


1 John 1:8 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=69&chapter=1&verse=8&version=31&context=verse)
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

Romans 3:20 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=3&verse=20&version=31&context=verse)
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
Don't stop the verses short!

Romans 3
21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,[i (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=3&version=31#fen-NIV-28002i)] through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

[reddogs]

I think that we all seem to be going down the same road, we just have to agree were sin comes in and does its damage to those under grace, in my opinion it comes in at the same place it came with Adam at his sinless state before the fall.

[reddogs]

Yes, still as long as the devil comes to temp us into sin we can still fall, just as Jesus was tempted, the devil also comes for us.........

[freeindeed2]

Yes, still as long as the devil comes to temp us into sin we can still fall, just as Jesus was tempted, the devil also comes for us.........
Those who trust Jesus for their eternal life are guaranteed the promises of God by HIM living in us. It's all about Jesus, not Satan and his temptations. Jesus is the truth you're looking for!

[Eila]

I don't think its as simple as that. 1 John 3:6 says "No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him." One sin here = not knowing Christ.
This is why we must die daily to sin, repenting and confessing, growing in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Saviour. And I believe the more we confess and repent, the less we will sin.

"No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him, and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." 1 John 3:9


I'm going to try and explain my perspective here. Let me know if you don't understand what I am saying.
1 John 3:
"5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him."

In Him there is no sin. When we come to Jesus we reside in Him and He resides in us. When we abide in Him we do not sin because in Him there is no sin.

"7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."

When you have been born of God you are sinless. We cannot sin because it is Jesus' perfection in us. Your spirit is perfect. Your spirit cannot fall into sin.

Your actions, however, may not reflect that perfection that is inside. The change in actions is maturity. Babes in Christ will likely be doing actions that do not reflect the righteousness they have in Christ. As they grow in Christ their actions become more Christ-like.



So, I could kill you right now, and not be sinning? The Law of Christ is the Spiritual Ten Commandments.

Jon, don't be silly :D 1 John 3 says what the commandments are for the new covenant "21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us."

If you agape love me you won't kill me. You wouldn't even think of killing me.

BTW, did you have a good birthday?

[reddogs]

Yes, Jimmy Swaggart said the same thing......and yet he still sinned and showed he never believed any of it.......

Man can say or do many things, but only God can see what is in the heart........

[Eila]

I don't know if Eila agrees or disagrees with me, but I do know that the core of who we are is sinful and not in line with God. Conversion is a supernatural work of the Holy Spirit in us, not some work we perform on our own.


I don't think we agree on things exactly, but it is pretty close ;) I would much rather go to a church that teaches what you say than a church that teaches a works-based theology.

Recreation of our spirit is a work of God. Sin does not negate the recreation. We were made with His sinlessness and cannot fall into sin like Adam. Yet, I do believe man can give back the gift of salvation and walk away from God forever. This giving back is not sinning, but an willful decision to die to Christ. I am still studying the issue of twice lost, lost forever so I'm not sure about that yet.

[freeindeed2]

I don't think we agree on things exactly, but it is pretty close ;) I would much rather go to a church that teaches what you say than a church that teaches a works-based theology.
I bet we're a lot closer than what you think. There are certain things I won't say, just because I know the context of how they would be taken. I do believe we have a choice, but I believe to 'choose' God is the RESULT of the influence of the Holy Spirit working in us. I believe we have a so-called 'free-will', but I believe it's rooted in our sinful nature, so it seeks it's own way and not the way of God. God 'wins' us ove through the work of his Spirit in us, even our conscience. If left to our own 'free-will' eternal death would be a certainty.

Recreation of our spirit is a work of God. Sin does not negate the recreation. We were made with His sinlessness and cannot fall into sin like Adam.
I agree completely!

Yet, I do believe man can give back the gift of salvation and walk away from God forever. This giving back is not sinning, but an willful decision to die to Christ.
I suppose, theoretically, that COULD be true, although, I'm not sure how that plays out with the Holy Spirit living in us and having already 'made' us a 'new creation'. It would be like a butterfly going back to being a caterpillar. I don't even know if that has ever happend. I believe God is true to his promises, in spite of our weakly sinful human flesh. In other words, he can save us in spite of ourselves.

I'm not sure how a 'truly saved' person with the Holy Spirit of God living in them as a guarantee of the promises of God can then find themselves lost...

I am still studying the issue of twice lost, lost forever so I'm not sure about that yet.
Thankfully, we don't have to know it all...we just have to be known by Jesus.

[Eila]

Thankfully, we don't have to know it all...we just have to be known by Jesus.

Yes :amen: We don't have to know it all. What freedom there is in that!!

[Jon0388g]

I'm going to try and explain my perspective here. Let me know if you don't understand what I am saying.
1 John 3:
"5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him."

In Him there is no sin. When we come to Jesus we reside in Him and He resides in us. When we abide in Him we do not sin because in Him there is no sin.

Agreed.


"7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."

When you have been born of God you are sinless. We cannot sin because it is Jesus' perfection in us. Your spirit is perfect. Your spirit cannot fall into sin.

Wait wait! Do you mean after we have accepted Christ we can never sin again, or that our Spirit cannot be practicing sin?


Your actions, however, may not reflect that perfection that is inside. The change in actions is maturity. Babes in Christ will likely be doing actions that do not reflect the righteousness they have in Christ. As they grow in Christ their actions become more Christ-like.

But you've already established that whoever is in Christ does not, and cannot sin. Babes/Adults in Christ do not sin. I agree with almost all you have said so far, its just that we're back in this territory where it seems you believe sin does not lose your salvation.

"My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous" 1 John 2:1

Nowhere in Scripture is there a tolerance for sin: of the heathen, babes, or mature in Christ. Hebrews tells us that if we go on sinning consciously after receiving knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for our sin. And our sin cannot be overlooked if they are not repented of.



Jon, don't be silly :D 1 John 3 says what the commandments are for the new covenant "21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us."

If you agape love me you won't kill me. You wouldn't even think of killing me.


What was silly? I think it was a legitimate question! :cool:

The Ten Commandments are in no way conflicting with the Law of Christ. The main difference between the two Covenants is that one was required to be binded externally by the Israelites themselves, whereas in the New, God Himself binds it to our hearts and to our minds. The Ten Words do not cease to exist. They are still very much part of the New Covenant. John saw flashes of lightning and thunder when the Ark of the Covenant was revealed in Heaven, as the final phase of judgment. Significant? Methinks, yes!

We have never been saved by works either in the Old or New, agreed? So, what's the beef with the Ten Words? The Fourth? Hmm......

Jon

PS:


BTW, did you have a good birthday?

Had a great one, thanks! Getting a PS3 hehe!;)

[freeindeed2]

So, what's the beef with the Ten Words? The Fourth? Hmm......
The beef is that the covenant made with Israel was NO LESS THAN the 10 commandments and we are no longer under the old covenant! It's not just about the 4th, as SDA's think. It's about Jesus. The new covenant is NOT the old covenant.

[Eila]

Wait wait! Do you mean after we have accepted Christ we can never sin again, or that our Spirit cannot be practicing sin?

Our spirit is perfect because it has been recreated in Christ Jesus. Our actions are not perfect. We may sin in our actions but it doesn't impact our perfect spirit, That perfectness is based on Jesus' perfection and not mine.


But you've already established that whoever is in Christ does not, and cannot sin. Babes/Adults in Christ do not sin. I agree with almost all you have said so far, its just that we're back in this territory where it seems you believe sin does not lose your salvation.

"My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous" 1 John 2:1


Yes those in Christ can sin in their actions. But that sin is not counted against them. I like the verse you quoted. If anyone does sin we have an Advocate - Jesus Christ the righteous. Jesus' blood settles the issue every time. It is His perfection that the Father sees, not my sins.

When I say a Christian does not sin I am not referring to the acts of sin, but to the imputation of sin. In verse 9 it says "9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."

Born again children of God cannot have sin counted against them because it is His seed that is in us. We have been made new with a perfect spirit perfected in Christ.

Verse 5-6 says "5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him". I

n Him there is no sin.
In Him is where I reside.
In Him there is only righteousness.
If I am sinning it is because I have never seen Him or known Him - I am not saved - I have never been saved.

Wait, don't Christians still sin? Yes they do. But Christians who are in Him have an Advocate! Jesus is my Substitute. His righteousness is all the Father sees. Praise God!


Nowhere in Scripture is there a tolerance for sin: of the heathen, babes, or mature in Christ. Hebrews tells us that if we go on sinning consciously after receiving knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for our sin. And our sin cannot be overlooked if they are not repented of.

Hebrews 10:26 "26For if we go on deliberately and willingly sinning after once acquiring the knowledge of the Truth, there is no longer any sacrifice left to atone for [our] sins [no further offering to which to look forward]."

If you take this text to mean what you are saying then there is no hope for anyone. All sin by a Christian is willfull and intentional. Sinners sin without thinking about it. Christians have to go against the leading of the Spirit and against their new nature to sin. This text says that there is NO MORE sacrifice for sin. Confessing and repenting when there is no more sacrifice for sin will do nothing.

I think what Matthew Henry says in his commentary relates my position about this verse "The sin here mentioned is a total and final falling away, when men, with a full and fixed will and resolution, despise and reject Christ, the only Saviour; despise and resist the Spirit, the only Sanctifier; and despise and renounce the gospel, the only way of salvation, and the words of eternal life"



What was silly? I think it was a legitimate question! :cool:


Love supercedes the 10 commandments.


The Ten Commandments are in no way conflicting with the Law of Christ. The main difference between the two Covenants is that one was required to be binded externally by the Israelites themselves, whereas in the New, God Himself binds it to our hearts and to our minds. The Ten Words do not cease to exist. They are still very much part of the New Covenant. John saw flashes of lightning and thunder when the Ark of the Covenant was revealed in Heaven, as the final phase of judgment. Significant? Methinks, yes!

No, no, no the main difference between the 2 covenants is that one is based on works and the other is based on His work.

Jesus didn't come to just make the 10 commandments change places. He did so much more!! The Gentiles before Christ had the law on their hearts. Romans 2 "14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel."





We have never been saved by works either in the Old or New, agreed? So, what's the beef with the Ten Words? The Fourth? Hmm......

So, what's the beef with the commandments listed in 1 John, hmm?




Had a great one, thanks! Getting a PS3 hehe!;)

It took me a little while to figure out what PS3 was, but I've got it now. Glad you got what you wanted :)

[reddogs]

There is a problem with "cannot fall into sin like Adam", that is not correct as even Jesus could have fallen into sin, so if we say we cannot fall that is the fallacy of "once saved always saved" which we have already agreed is not truth. Now if we say by faith as the bible teaches:

Righteousness Through Faith

21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,[i (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%203%20;&version=31;#fen-NIV-28002i)] through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. Romans 3:21-28


Romans 1:17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=1&verse=17&version=9&context=verse)
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.


Galatians 2:16 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=55&chapter=2&verse=16&version=9&context=verse)
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

[Eila]

There is a problem with "cannot fall into sin like Adam", that is not correct as even Jesus could have fallen into sin, so if we say we cannot fall that is the fallacy of "once saved always saved" which we have already agreed is not truth. Now if we say by faith as the bible teaches:

But you see Jesus didn't sin and we have His righteousness. We cannot fall into sin and have sin count against us because we have His righteousness. There is no sin against Jesus. He stands before the Father on my behalf. He is our righteousness.

1 Corinthians 1 "28God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, 29so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. 30He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, whom God made our wisdom and our righteousness and sanctification and redemption. 31Therefore, as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.""

[reddogs]

By faith we have His righteousness, but we can fall into sin as Jesus was tempted and could have fallen, just as we are tempted and can fall. That has not been taken away, the devil is still here and anyone that says we cannot sin is not correct as the Bible clearly says not to yield to sin as we can be tempted and can fall.

Romans 6:13 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=6&verse=13&version=9&context=verse)
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

The belief that you can not fall into sin once you believe or fall back into sin is really the false belief of "once saved always saved" which is a variation of saved by (your own) works, as its adherents feel that they have worked and gotten salvation so they now have divine pardon for any sin they do instead of repenting from them and letting God work within them. Many "righteous christians" who believed this false belief and said the same thing that "they could never fall back into sin", fell into sexual or other vices and types of sin, then they tried to say that it "wasnt sin', that they weren't "bound by the law" so the adultery was OK, even as they divorced their spouse.

This is the same type of lie the serpent used on Eve, that she could do what she wanted and it wasnt sin. I had a friend that was very beautiful and she told me that she got 'hit on and more proposals to sin' from 'married christians' in church than when she was out on South Beach in Miami, so dont try and tell me that christians can't fall into sin.

[Eila]

By faith we have His righteousness, but we can fall into sin as Jesus was tempted and could have fallen, just as we are tempted and can fall. That has not been taken away, the devil is still here and anyone that says we cannot sin is not correct as the Bible clearly says not to yield to sin as we can be tempted and can fall.

We can be tempted and sin, but when we are in Christ it is all based on His righteousness, not our own.


Romans 6:13 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=6&verse=13&version=9&context=verse)
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Yes, we should not sin. We should yield ourselves to God.

Romans 6 says "
10For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. 11So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.

12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal bodies, to make you obey their passions. 13Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. 14For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace."

We are not under the power and dominion of sin anymore. We are to yield ourself to God's ways and not sin. We died and now have our life in Him.

"15What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, 18and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. "

We are free from sin!!! Praise God!! Does that mean we should sin, by no means. We are free from the power of sin so we can now live for Him.


The belief that you can not fall into sin once you believe or fall back into sin is really the false belief of "once saved always saved" which is a variation of saved by (your own) works, as its adherents feel that they have worked and gotten salvation so they now have divine pardon for any sin they do instead of repenting from them and letting God work within them.

I don't see how you say OSAS is salvation by works. Most adherents are far from that idea.


Many "righteous christians" who believed this false belief and said the same thing that "they could never fall back into sin", fell into sexual or other vices and types of sin, then they tried to say that it "wasnt sin', that they weren't "bound by the law" so the adultery was OK, even as they divorced their spouse.

This is the same type of lie the serpent used on Eve, that she could do what she wanted and it wasnt sin. I had a friend that was very beautiful and she told me that she got 'hit on and more proposals to sin' from 'married christians' in church than when she was out on South Beach in Miami, so dont try and tell me that christians can't fall into sin.

Christians can sin, but that sin does not count against them. As 1 John 2 says "MY LITTLE children, I write you these things so that you may not violate God's law and sin. But if anyone should sin, we have an Advocate (One Who will intercede for us) with the Father--[it is] Jesus Christ [the all] righteous [upright, just, Who conforms to the Father's will in every purpose, thought, and action]."

He took my place and when I sin Christ Advocates for me because His blood already took care of it. When I come to Christ my spirit is born again. It is recreated with His perfection.

Maturity is the process of that perfection being reflected in my actions. Yes, Christians sin, but we are not like Adam. Adam fell into sin. We have already been perfected with His perfection and cannot fall into sin because He didn't fall into sin.

[reddogs]

You are saying something a bit different now that "Christians can sin, but that sin does not count against them..", yes that is true, but that is if they turn it over to Christ and His grace. Most sinners (and a lot of christians) dont do that and continue into sin till it takes them over, or if christians, they completely fall back into sin and lose their way.

Now for the other part "when we are in Christ it is all based on His righteousness, not our own." Many christians 'claim' they are "In Christ" when in fact they are not as they as still under the "power and dominion of sin" and are just saying they are "In Christ" so they can continue in sin. I've seen it many times, and like sleaker said, it is a "cheap grace" and telling them its imposible to sin or 'it doesnt count' gives them cover.

What I have seen is that a lot of 'christians' will try to find any excuse to allow them to enjoy and fall into sin with 'gusto' as long as no one finds out. Then when the subsequent divorce or other results of sin happens they deny it was wrong or deny that the bible identifies their "specific" sin or other manipulation so they never admit to any sin.

So saying that you "cannot sin", or that even for those who continue in sin or love sin that their "sins are automatically forgiven" means that those who give lip service or even the Devil would fall under this catagory.

That is why the law defines and allows us to identify sin, it allows for the sinner to recognize it and confess it and turn it over to Christ and His grace. If not, you are living in sin, you are not yielding ourself to God's ways, you have fallen back into sin and are under the power and dominion of sin.

[Eila]

You are saying something totally different now that "Christians can sin, but that sin does not count against them..", yes that is true, but that is if they turn it over to Christ and His grace. Most sinners (and a lot of christians) dont do that and continue into sin till it takes them over, or if christians, they completely fall back into sin and lose their way.


No, I'm not saying something different. Christians sin. That sin has already been taken care of.

It does not count against them because of what Jesus did, not because we ask forgiveness and confess. Sinners are not Christians. Christians are not sinners. We are not simply forgiven. We are perfected. Sin does not count against us because Jesus' blood paid the price for us once for all.


Now for the other part "when we are in Christ it is all based on His righteousness, not our own." Many chistians 'claim' they are "In Christ" when in fact they are not as they as still under the "power and dominion of sin" and are just saying they are "In Christ" so they can continue in sin. I've seen it many time, and like sleaker said, it is a "cheap grace" and telling them its imposible to sin or 'it doesnt count' gives them cover.

You are judging the Bible according to the experiences of people. The Bible says He is our Righteousness. The Bible says we are in Christ. I don't know what Christians you associate with, but I don't know of any that do as you suggest. I don't know of any that just say they are "in Christ" so they can sin. On the contrary I have seen so much more sin when around those who believe they must obtain their own righteousness. But I cannot base my theology on experiences, but on what the Bible actually says.


I could take that beautiful girl to any church that preaches that you "can't fall into sin" and I guarrantee a good portion of the "married christians" would be interested or want to have a adulterous tryst or other sexual sin without so much as batting a eyelash.

What??? Where do you get this information? Such an accusation is very silly. If you take that girl to a church that is Christian in culture only then I would agree with you. You will not find that in a church that teaches that we have His righteousness and that He now lives in us guiding us. I challenge you, come bring that girl to my church. It is even discouraged for a married person to be alone in public or private with someone of the opposite gender for the sake of appearances.


What I have seen is that most 'christians' will try to find any excuse to allow them to enjoy and fall into sin with 'gusto' as long as no one finds out. Then when the subsequent divorce or other results of sin happens they deny it was wrong or deny that the bible identifies their "specific" sin or other manipulation so they never admit to any sin.

Christians don't enjoy sin. They have tremendous conviction because they have God living inside of them. Who are all these Christians you are talking about?


So saying that you "cannot sin", or that even for those who continue in sin or love sin that their "sins are automatically forgiven" means that even the Devil would fall under this catagory.

Jesus didn't die for the devil or the angels. Hell was made for the devil and the angels, not man. Man will go there only because he has not accepted Jesus. You must stand before God in Jesus' righteousness or your own. Christ came to destroy the works of the devil, not to restore the devil. The devil is defeated.


That is why the law identifies sin, it allows for the sinner to recognize it and confess it and turn it over to Christ and His grace. If not, you are living in sin, you are not yielding ourself to God's ways, you have fallen back into sin and are under the power and dominion of sin.

If someone is continuing in sin I've found it is usually because:

1. They are not listening to the leading of the Holy Spirit
2. They are in a church that teaches works or the law.
3. They were never saved and filled with the Spirit.

[reddogs]

See thats the confusions that sets in if you do away with the divine standard, you allow "Sinners that are not Christians" to pretent they are "christians" since there is no way to diferentiate, as you have discarded the basics of what shows you sin and you negate at even looking if they "bear fruit". Any sinner can give lip service and then declare themselves 'saved and incapbable of sin' and they dont have to be changed or turn from sin.........


What you say here:

"If someone is continuing in sin I've found it is usually because:

1. They are not listening to the leading of the Holy Spirit
2. They are in a church that teaches works or the law.
3. They were never saved and filled with the Spirit."

..is exactly my point, we only hear or see the outside, only God and His Son Jesus Christ see the heart and truly juge that a christian has " God living inside of them", and trust me there are a lot of "cheap grace" christians under the power and dominion of sin and pretending when they see you and fooling you......

Matthew 23:28 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=23&verse=28&version=31&context=verse)
In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

[Eila]

..is exactly my point, only God and His Son Jesus Christ can say for sure that a christian has "have God living inside of them"

Yes, I agree we cannot judge their heart. Only God knows their heart.


, and trust me there are a lot of "cheap grace" christians under the power and dominion of sin and pretending when they see you and fooling you......


Because there are some Christians who don't understand who God made them to be doesn't mean that the Bible ceases to be true. He is our Righteousness. We cannot base our theology on our experiences or other's experiences, but on what the Bible says.


Matthew 23:28 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=23&verse=28&version=31&context=verse)
In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

Yes, these people were not born again. No one was. They were keepers of the law, yet full of sin because that was their nature. I'm not sure what your point was regarding this text though. Weren't you saying that the outside or the works of Christians were not righteous? If you reverse this text it would say on the outside you appear as unrighteous, but on the inside you are full of righteousness.

[reddogs]

You are trying to 'decide' who is righteous by 'looking on the outside' or from what they tell you and then declare them "christians" and say 'they cannot sin', and that is a divine judgement not for man to say. That is why we live by and our salvation is by FAITH, for if we decide who has "God living inside of them" then WE are doing salavation by ourselves, WE decide who is going to be 'saved', better to leave that to the One who knows all.

By this logic you could declare child molester a "christian" and then have that person say he is without sin and cannot sin even as he continues in sinning.....

[Eila]

You are trying to 'decide' who is righteous by 'looking on the outside'


:scratch: Not sure where you get that from. Who am I judging by looking on the outside? I keep talking about the righteousness on the inside.

or from what they tell you and then declare them "christians" and say 'they cannot sin', and that is a divine judgement not for man to say.

Do you believe what the Bible says is God's will or the truth? I don't declare them righteous, God does. All who come to Jesus and receive Him as their Savior are saved according to the Bible. The Bible is the Word of God. The Word of God declares what is true.


That is why we live by and our salvation is by FAITH, for if we decide who has "God living inside of them" then WE are doing salavation by ourselves, WE decide who is going to be 'saved', better to leave that to the One who knows all.

Do you believe in Bible is God's Word to us? Do you believe that what it says we can rely on? I didn't make this up. This is God's Word that says we are saved. The One Who knows all is the One who is behind the Bible.


Hebrews 11 says " NOW FAITH is the assurance (the confirmation, the title deed) of the things [we] hope for, being the proof of things [we] do not see and the conviction of their reality [faith perceiving as real fact what is not revealed to the senses]."

Faith is assurance.

1 John 4 says we can have assurance that we are saved:

"17In this [union and communion with Him] love is brought to completion and attains perfection with us, that we may have confidence for the day of judgment [with assurance and boldness to face Him], because as He is, so are we in this world."

[reddogs]

The plane ticket is like faith, it is that assurance that you have a ride on that plane. But until you get aboard and fly away, you can "change your mind" or have someone "convince you" not to go. I am not saying you will, but that is why it is "salvation by faith"......

[Eila]

The plane ticket is like faith, it is that assurance that you have a ride on that plane. But until you get aboard and fly away, you can "change your mind" or have someone "convince you" not to go. I am not saying you will, but that is why it is "salvation by faith"......

You mention "salvation by faith". What is this faith in? Do you have faith that God will make the right decision about your destination or that you are saved right now? You have assurance that you will be saved if you are on board the plane or is your assurance that you will be on the plane?

Romans 8 says "23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. "

If you are waiting to see yourself sitting on the plane to believe you are saved then it is not faith. Faith is believing in things you cannot see.

[reddogs]

Faith in Jesus Christ and his righteousness, not self.

Romans 3:22 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=3&verse=22&version=9&context=verse)
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 1:17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=1&verse=17&version=9&context=verse)
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Romans 4:13 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=4&verse=13&version=9&context=verse)
For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith

Philippians 3:9 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=57&chapter=3&verse=9&version=9&context=verse)
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

[Eila]

Faith in Jesus Christ, not self

How is believing you are saved right now believing in yourself?