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reddogs
20th March 2007, 09:18 AM
The law pointed to salvation of man through Jesus Christ as God knew man could not keep the law even at creation, and so God sent His Son to come to earth, live as a man, and yet without sin, die on the cross and be resurrected to life to fulfill the laws requirement for sin. During this time on the earth Jesus gave us a number of guiding principles that show that these were His law, His precepts, His testimonies that were not to be forgotten.

John 10:30 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=50&chapter=10&verse=30&version=9&context=verse)
I and my Father are one.

One of the fundamental reasons that Christians do not live the Christian life successfully is that they do not know God and His Son who Jesus tells us they are one, His law, His precepts,or His testimonies very well and you cannot know God and His Son Jesus Christ unless you listen to His revelation of Himself in the OLD and the NEW Testament of the Bible.

Matthew 7:21 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=7&verse=21&version=9&context=verse)
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Can these aspects of God be known from through Creation? Yes, Romans 1:20 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=NKJV&passage=Romans+1%3A20) tells us "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse." So his law, his precepts,his testimonies were seen in everything he did and made. What can we see in what he did during creation, he created man in his own image with freewill, he created the Sabbath for man, he made know the consequences of sin when he put the tree of knowledge.

From this point forward it was clear in that within God's law, His precepts, His testimonies they contained the guiding principle that should be in our life, we should love the Lord our God with all are heart, mind, soul and strength and to love our neighbor as we love ourselves. Jesus repeated these In Mark 12:30-31 Christ was asked about the commandments and He summed up all God’s law into two simple statements: “Thou shalt Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul and with all thy strength...and...Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself - there is none other commandment greater than these.


Christians should value and live by the words which the Lord spoke here on earth. What did Jesus say about the Law of God and did He in fact, substantiate that God has a divine Law?

At the conclusion of His ministry Jesus declared to His very disciples, “I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.” (John 15:10). Jesus prefaced this statement of truth by instructing the disciples, “If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.”

Jesus declared that God does have a divine Law by which He governs all things. Jesus declared that God’s commandments are established on a “love” principle. Law-keeping may degenerate to legalism and a salvation-by-works kind of religion but this was not and is not God’s intention.

After Moses had rehearsed the Ten Commandments in the hearing of Israel (Deuteronomy 5) he then instructed them in the succeeding chapter, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength. And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children.” (Deut. 6:4-7).

God’s government has a divine Law and that Law governs His creation. His divine Law is founded on a love-principle. (Matthew 22:37-40). Legalism and mere formality in religion mean nothing to God anymore than merely mouthing the words “I love you” to your spouse in a mechanical way.

Jesus spoke of God’s commandments as “His” commandments because He took ownership of them. He practiced and showed us how to obey God’s commandments. Jesus did not come to establish His own set of rules and commandments but rather gave the example of honoring and obeying God’s already established divine commandments. He clearly stated, “Do not think that I have come to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.” (Matthew 5:17). Does the word “fulfill” mean “take away” or “abolish” or “set aside” or “nail to the cross?” Or does “fulfill” mean what our Lord had already stated, “I have kept My Father’s commandments?”

Jesus, Himself, answers this by saying in that same breath, “Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:19).
It would have been ludicrous of Jesus to first of all, leave for us the example of “keeping My Father’s commandments” and then turning right around and saying, “Oh, but you don’t need to keep those commandments, just keep Mine.” Will heaven be a divided government with some people honoring the “Father’s Commandments” and others honoring “Jesus’ Commandments?”

It was Lucifer who first rebelled against God’s government and was cast out of heaven for it. (Revelation 12:7-9; Isaiah 14:12-14). Would Jesus have come to likewise teach men to rebel against the Father’s commandments and instead keep His? When a questioner once approached Jesus and asked about eternal life, Jesus responded, “If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” The questioner asked which ones Jesus was referring to and Jesus without hesitation began to quote some of the Ten Commandments.

Was Jesus promulgating legalism and a salvation-by-works kind of religion? The context tells us that Jesus wanted to get at the “heart” of the matter with this questioner. The questioner stated that he had been obeying the commandments of God all his life. Jesus then challenges this young man to give up all his possessions in order to test whether this man’s commandment-keeping was from the heart or mere legalism. (Matthew 19:16-22).


Why are we to honor the Law as written in the Ten Commandments above all the other laws, precepts, or statutes given in Scripture? The reason is they are the clearest understanding of God and his love, and the greatest reason of all is that Jesus left for us such an example. The next reason is stated right there in the chapter where Moses rehearsed the Law of God to God’s people, “These words the Lord spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice, and He added no more.” (Deuteronomy 5:22).

Then Moses went on to say, “He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.” God, Himself, differentiated His divine Law of Ten Commandments from all other commandments, statutes, ordinances and laws. The reason for this is that His government is founded upon these Ten Commandments. They are eternal while all other ones were for a specific purpose and design. The law of ceremonies and sacrifices, for example, were given to foreshadow the coming “Lamb of God,” the Messiah. (Heb. 10:1).

Exodus 31:18 tells us that the Ten Commandments were “written with the finger of God” on “tablets of stone.” This is further emphasized with the words, “Now the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God.” (Exodus 32:16). When we read that Moses threw down the tablets of Ten Commandments, demonstrating that the people of God had rebelled against God’s government (Exodus 32:1-4, 19) we also read that God thought so much of the Ten Commandments that He replaced them Himself, “The Lord said to Moses, Cut two tablets of stone like the first ones, and I will write on these tablets the words that were on the first tablets which you broke.” (Exodus 34:1).

These are the only set of laws that God wrote with His very own finger. To sum up, the Ten Commandments hold a particular place for each Christian believer because: 1) God, Himself, wrote them 2) Jesus, Himself, honored them 3) they are God’s direct revelation of truth (Psalm 119:142) 4) Jesus taught, “whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:19).

So Gods love is revealed in his Law which Jesus reiterates and is what man needs to come to a understanding and accept if he wants a relationship with Him. His precepts are revealed in what he does with man, forgiving and preparing a plan of salvation through His Son. His testimonies are given to man directly from God, throught His prophets and through Jesus words, and the Holy Spirit as they come from the same source. You cannot know someone if you ignore the love they give you and show in everything they tell you and do for you..

Cribstyl
20th March 2007, 09:57 AM
The law pointed to salvation of man through Jesus Christ as God knew man could not keep the law even at creation, and so God sent His Son to come to earth, live as a man, and yet without sin, die on the cross and be resurrected to life to fulfill the laws requirement for sin. During this time on the earth Jesus gave us a number of guiding principles that show that these were His law, His precepts, His testimonies that were not to be forgotten.

John 10:30 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=50&chapter=10&verse=30&version=9&context=verse)
I and my Father are one.

One of the fundamental reasons that Christians do not live the Christian life successfully is that they do not know God and His Son who Jesus tells us they are one, His law, His precepts,or His testimonies very well and you cannot know God and His Son Jesus Christ unless you listen to His revelation of Himself in the OLD and the NEW Testament of the Bible.

Matthew 7:21 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=7&verse=21&version=9&context=verse)
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Can these aspects of God be known from through Creation? Yes, Romans 1:20 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=NKJV&passage=Romans+1%3A20) tells us "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse." So his law, his precepts,his testimonies were seen in everything he did and made. What can we see in what he did during creation, he created man in his own image with freewill, he created the Sabbath for man, he made know the consequences of sin when he put the tree of knowledge.

From this point forward it was clear in that within God's law, His precepts, His testimonies they contained the guiding principle that should be in our life, we should love the Lord our God with all are heart, mind, soul and strength and to love our neighbor as we love ourselves. Jesus repeated these In Mark 12:30-31 Christ was asked about the commandments and He summed up all God’s law into two simple statements: “Thou shalt Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul and with all thy strength...and...Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself - there is none other commandment greater than these.


Christians should value and live by the words which the Lord spoke here on earth. What did Jesus say about the Law of God and did He in fact, substantiate that God has a divine Law?
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Scraaaaatchhhh click, click, click:doh: ......Sheeze..What should we do with the bible, if people like you are allowed to say anything without a trail of traceable facts?

A. How does the law points to salvation? :doh: Bible text say that


Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;


It's fruitless to argue with you, since your pattern is to attack those who dont agree with you and your church's similar views and contradictions.

Shame on those who dont correct you.:mad:

Free and Eila will soon learn that you dont care what they have to say as long as you can shoot your "reasoning" out you will.
:sigh: So sad how they continue to try to patch up your errors one by one in all those threads you initiate.

The fact that they dont get to lead the discussions is because they're playing defense all the time. Then you'll bash them for not condemning sin.

Anyone should be able to look at how you isolate text to support your dialogs, rather than what the text is talking about.

CRIB

reddogs
20th March 2007, 10:20 AM
I know you want to throw away the parts of the Bible that dont fit what you want, but its all there....

The answer is the law is a divine definition of sin we shows us we are indeed sinners and need Jesus Christ as our Savior. Otherwise anyone could make up what is right or wrong which is what the Jews and the Papal church did when they allowed "traditions" of man to creep in.

1 John 3:4 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=69&chapter=3&verse=4&version=9&context=verse)
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

freeindeed2
20th March 2007, 11:00 AM
I know you want to throw away the parts of the Bible that dont fit what you want, but its all there....

The answer is the law is a divine definition of sin we shows us we are indeed sinners and need Jesus Christ as our Savior. Otherwise anyone could make up what is right or wrong which is what the Jews and the Papal church did when they allowed "traditions" of man to creep in.

1 John 3:4 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=69&chapter=3&verse=4&version=9&context=verse)
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Such a narrow view.

Please show me in the old covenant/10 commandments the command to not be angry with my brother.

Please show me in the old covenant/10 commandments the command to not even lust after a woman in my mind.

We are not without law. Your cherished verse actually says that sin is lawlessness. Jesus clearly laid out his law for us (read the sermon on the mount, Matt 5-7, and he has other commands he gave as well). He promised us the Holy Spirit, or God Himself to live in us to produce HIS fruit and do HIS good works.

You're running back to the old covenant to find justification, but all you'll find there is condemnation and death. But I'll give you this: you're very good at lifting up what condemns us instead of Jesus.

Eila
20th March 2007, 01:36 PM
From this point forward it was clear in that within God's law, His precepts, His testimonies they contained the guiding principle that should be in our life, we should love the Lord our God with all are heart, mind, soul and strength and to love our neighbor as we love ourselves. Jesus repeated these In Mark 12:30-31 Christ was asked about the commandments and He summed up all God’s law into two simple statements: “Thou shalt Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul and with all thy strength...and...Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself - there is none other commandment greater than these.


You do realize that these were not from the 10 commandments, but from the Book of the Law. Jesus Himself referred to the commandments as ones from the Book of the Law. Jesus didn't equate "commandments" with the 10 commandments. Please show me an instance were He separated the 10 commandments from the rest of the laws.

Lev 19 " You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD."

Deut 6:5 " And you shall love the Lord your God with all your [mind and] heart and with your entire being and with all your might."

The two greatest commands were not found in the 10 commandments - think about it. The two greatest commands were labeled that way by Jesus Himself.

Matthew 22 "40These two commandments sum up and upon them depend all the Law and the Prophets."

Those 2 commands are not a summary of the 10 commandments but the 10 commandments, the whole law of Moses, and all the writings of the prophets. Again we see no distinction between a supposed ceremonial law and the 10 commandments.

Cribstyl
20th March 2007, 01:42 PM
I know you want to throw away the parts of the Bible that dont fit what you want, but its all there....

The answer is the law is a divine definition of sin we shows us we are indeed sinners and need Jesus Christ as our Savior. Otherwise anyone could make up what is right or wrong which is what the Jews and the Papal church did when they allowed "traditions" of man to creep in.

1 John 3:4 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=69&chapter=3&verse=4&version=9&context=verse)
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Do you really know what I want?

What I want is for you to prove your statements in this thread with text, does that sound like I'm the one throwing away parts of the bible?
Your accusation is made to comoflage your false teachings, and so you wont be accountable for your statements.
You're the one giving lessons not me. I am trying to point to truth out of the error you effortlessly post.

I'd rather leave this thread than argue without text, so if you're not willing to post answers to questions about your statements then these exchanges are fruitless.

My only question to you so far is.....

Question : How does the law points to salvation?

Your answer:The answer is the law is a divine definition of sin we shows us we are indeed sinners and need Jesus Christ as our Savior. Otherwise anyone could make up what is right or wrong which is what the Jews and the Papal church did when they allowed "traditions" of man to creep in.

1 John 3:4 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=69&chapter=3&verse=4&version=9&context=verse)
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

:scratch: You re saying " Law is a definition of sin." .Is that your final answer?

You're not saying that "the law defines sin" which is a true understanding.


This bible text below shows us that "...the Law was added until the seed came in". This gives us both the start and stop time when the law pointed people toward salvation (righteousness by works of the law). So the answer is the Law did point to salvation, before the Jesus came.

Gal 3:19 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gal/Gal003.html#19) — Wherefore then (http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Gal/3/19.html#then_1) [serveth] the law? It was added (http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Gal/3/19.html#It_was_added_2) because of transgressions, till (http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Gal/3/19.html#till_3) the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained by (http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Gal/3/19.html#by_4) angels in (http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Gal/3/19.html#in_5) the hand of a mediator.

That's an appropriate text to apply to understand rather than comments and more comments or text that dont apply to the question asked.

I know how you would explain away that these text is talking about "the ceromonial laws." The fact is "transgression" are why it was added not only transgression of ceromonial laws but whatever defines sin.


CRIB

reddogs
20th March 2007, 01:59 PM
Jesus repeatedly refer to God and Himself as one or the same source and outlook, so when He speaks of the commandments it is the same as what God sets forth, they do not differ. The source is the same, it was the Jews who tried to add all kinds of "traditions" of the "elders" which Jesus rebuked them on.

I think studying the Old and the New is a expansive view which lets us see the divine nature and character of God and His Son Jesus Christ as they are one. It is seen in God's Law of love which Jesus Christ taught and made it clear that every commandment from God was based on this Law of love which in a nutshell is loving Him and sharing His love with our fellowman.


36Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Matthew 22:36-40 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=22&verse=40&version=9&context=verse)

Eila
20th March 2007, 02:19 PM
Jesus repeatedly refer to God and Himself as one or the same source and outlook, so when He speaks of the commandments it is the same as what God sets forth, they do not differ. The source is the same, it was the Jews who tried to add all kinds of "traditions" of the "elders" which Jesus rebuked them on.



Do you realize Jesus commanded people to follow what the teachers of the law instructed?

Are you saying that the tassels on clothing was a tradition?

reddogs
29th March 2007, 08:09 PM
I think you are overeaching with that or I am not comprehending??:confused:

Eila
29th March 2007, 08:47 PM
I think you are overeaching with that or I am not comprehending??:confused:

Was this a command from God or man?

Numbers 15 "37 Again the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 38 “Speak to the children of Israel: Tell them to make tassels on the corners of their garments throughout their generations, and to put a blue thread in the tassels of the corners."

reddogs
30th March 2007, 05:59 AM
Do you say that was for a specific purpose or do you say it was part of His eternal moral law meant to protect those He loves from sin.

Eila
30th March 2007, 10:24 AM
Do you say that was for a specific purpose or do you say it was part of His eternal moral law meant to protect those He loves from sin.

Aren't all God's laws for a purpose?

Numbers 15 says the purpose "39And it shall be to you a fringe or tassel that you may look upon and remember all the commandments of the Lord and do them, that you may not spy out and follow after [the desires of] your own heart and your own eyes, after which you used to follow and play the harlot [spiritually, if not physically],"

The purpose of the tassels was to protect from sin.

reddogs
30th March 2007, 10:36 AM
Maybe we can get Tall73 to explain the verse, as it just seems to be a helpful hint in remembering like the little clip man on Microsoft word... :)

Eila
30th March 2007, 10:48 AM
Maybe we can get Tall73 to explain the verse, as it just seems to be a helpful hint in remembering like the little clip man on Microsoft word... :)

What about the text needs explaining? I think it is pretty self-explanatory.

Do you believe that command was given by God? If not, why not? If so, they why do you not have tassels on your clothing?
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