Need clarity. Do you believe in the Holy Spirit

[Jony]

Hey,

I am just unsure and wanting to find out - do baptists believe in the holy spirit?

If so, do you believe he just doesn't take an active role anymore?

I am not trying to be rude, just learn.

Thanks for your help.

~Jony

[Erinwilcox]

Hello,

As a Baptist, I most certainly do believe in the Holy Spirit. He is taught in Scripture and is a part of the Holy Trinity. I believe that the Holy Spirit draws men to God and plays an active role in the salvation of men.

[edb19]

I agree with Erin 100%.

The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1 CORINTHIANS 2:14

From the London Baptist Confession
Chapter 2 - Of God and of the Holy Trinity
Paragraph 3
In this divine and infinite Being there are three subsistences, the Father, the Word or Son, and Holy Spirit, of one substance, power, and eternity, each having the whole divine essence, yet the essence undivided: the Father is of none, neither begotten nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father; the Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father and the Son; all infinite, without beginning, therefore but one God, who is not to be divided in nature and being, but distinguished by several peculiar relative properties and personal relations; which doctrine of the Trinity is the foundation of all our communion with God, and comfortable dependence on him.

"The work of the Spirit, then, is joined to the word of God. But a distinction is made, that we may know that the external word is of no avail by itself. unless animated by the power of the Spirit ...All power of action, then, resides in the Spirit himself." - John Calvin

[Salamon]

Hello,

As a Baptist, I most certainly do believe in the Holy Spirit. He is taught in Scripture and is a part of the Holy Trinity. I believe that the Holy Spirit draws men to God and plays an active role in the salvation of men.

I agree with Erin 100%.



Amen! Yes quite assuredly!! Check out these scriptures!!> Matthew 28:19, 2 Corinthians 13:14
The Holy Spirit is an active part of our daily lives as Christians! God bless, Chris
PS-Questions are always good! And welcome!

[JimfromOhio]

Yes... The Holy Spirit is God, part of Trinity.

[Matthan]

You have to remember that we, as true Christians, are baptized with the Holy Spirit (Matthew 3:11; Mark 1:8; Luke 3:16), Who enters inside us and dwells within us forever (remember where Paul tells us our bodies are God's temples? He means that God indwells in all such temples, or true Christian bodies). When that baptism occurs, which is sometime immediately at or after we develop a solid, child-like belief that Jesus is the Son of God and we repent of our sins, we receive God's grace and we are immediately imputed with justification before God (we are still sinners but, at our deaths, all of our sins will be forgiven by God's propitious nature due to Jesus' perfect sacrifice on the cross and His resurrection from the grave).

All of this is a free gift from God (Ephesians 2:8-9). We can do nothing by ourselves except the work of God, which is to believe in Jesus whom God has sent. (John 6:29)

Matthan

[jsimms615]

Hey,

I am just unsure and wanting to find out - do baptists believe in the holy spirit?

If so, do you believe he just doesn't take an active role anymore?

I am not trying to be rude, just learn.

Thanks for your help.

~Jony
Baptist both believe in the Holy Spirit and that he does take an active role today. He guides,convicts and teaches the believer. He also convicts the lost of their sin. The Holy Spirit is guide, counselor, comforter and teacher. He reminds us of what Jesus said.

[DeaconDean]

Hey,

I am just unsure and wanting to find out - do baptists believe in the holy spirit?

If so, do you believe he just doesn't take an active role anymore?

I am not trying to be rude, just learn.

Thanks for your help.

~Jony

Let me say that this Baptist believes absolutely that the Holy Spirit still works in the world today.

2000 years ago, man had God walking, talking, and teaching them. When Jesus left, He promised:

"I will not leave you comfortless:" -Jn. 14:18 (KJV)

In fact a few verses earlier, Jesus promised:

"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" -Jn. 14:16 (KJV)

And Jesus also promised:

"Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." -Jn. 14:17 (KJV)

And His ministry here on earth is to:

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged." -Jn. 16:7-11 (KJV)

And more specifically, to the redeemed, born again, saints, children of God, children of the King, He will:

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you." -Jn. 16:13-15 (KJV)

Yes I believe most definately in the active role the Holy Spirit plays in the lives of the bron again Christian today!

God Bless

Till all are one.

[TwistTim]

amen to what the others said... This Southern Baptist assuredly believes the Paraclete is the Holy Spirit, and Indwells believers... tongues are not part of the equation, as that was a gift given to some, but other gifts were also given, and were better... they do not deteremine if you have the Spirit or not.

HE comes into every true Believer when they are truly saved.

[RED that's ME]

Looks like you have your answer now. :)

[fireman1173005]

As a Baptist, I most certainly do believe in the Holy Spirit. He is taught in Scripture and is a part of the Holy Trinity. I believe that the Holy Spirit draws men to God and plays an active role in the salvation of men.

I agree. I also would like to add that the Southern Baptist believe that the Holy Spirit also convicts a person of sin. The following is from the Southern Baptist Faith & Message.

God the Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God, fully divine. He inspired holy men of old to write the Scriptures. Through illumination He enables men to understand truth. He exalts Christ. He convicts men of sin, of righteousness, and of judgment. He calls men to the Saviour, and effects regeneration. At the moment of regeneration He baptizes every believer into the Body of Christ. He cultivates Christian character, comforts believers, and bestows the spiritual gifts by which they serve God through His church. He seals the believer unto the day of final redemption. His presence in the Christian is the guarantee that God will bring the believer into the fullness of the stature of Christ. He enlightens and empowers the believer and the church in worship, evangelism, and service.
Genesis 1:2; Judges 14:6; Job 26:13; Psalms 51:11; 139:7ff.; Isaiah 61:1-3; Joel 2:28-32; Matthew 1:18; 3:16; 4:1; 12:28-32; 28:19; Mark 1:10,12; Luke 1:35; 4:1,18-19; 11:13; 12:12; 24:49; John 4:24; 14:16-17,26; 15:26; 16:7-14; Acts 1:8; 2:1-4,38; 4:31; 5:3; 6:3; 7:55; 8:17,39; 10:44; 13:2; 15:28; 16:6; 19:1-6; Romans 8:9-11,14-16,26-27; 1 Corinthians 2:10-14; 3:16; 12:3-11,13; Galatians 4:6; Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30; 5:18; 1 Thessalonians 5:19; 1 Timothy 3:16; 4:1; 2 Timothy 1:14; 3:16; Hebrews 9:8,14; 2 Peter 1:21; 1 John 4:13; 5:6-7; Revelation 1:10; 22:17.

Brian

[gloryseven]

I would like to say that Baptists are great, they love the Word and they study and show themselves approved. Good going!

[DeaconDean]

I want to quote Donald Grey Barnhouse speaking on "A Finished Work."

"And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us." -Rom. 5:5

"Yes, the Holy Spirit has been given to that select company who have turned from confidence and trust in themselves to put their faith and hope in the Savior...We who were dead in trespasses and sins; have been quickened by the Holy Spirit. We had been identified with Adam and the world; we are identified by the Spirit as part of the body of ChristOur bodies had been temples of idols; they became the dwelling place of the Lord Jesus Christ by His Spirit."
-Donald Grey Barnhouse
Romans, Volume II,
A Finished Work, p. 137

"Some have thought that God would or could remove His Spirit after He had once made us alive. Such an idea is never found in the scriptures. It is true in the great Psalm of repentance erring King David cried out:

"Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me." -Psa. 51:11 (KJV)

It is very unfortunate that this verse has been included in the liturgy of the church of England, for multitudes of people chant that prayer every Sunday, and believe that it is possible for God to take His Holy Spirit from those who have believed in Him. David lived in the Old Testament dispensation. The presence of God was in the Holy-of-holies in the tabernacle at Jerusalem. When David prayed: "Cast me not away from thy presence,;" he was saying "Do not exile me from Jerusalem." And when he prayed: "and take not thy holy spirit from me," he was praying that the special power which had been put upon him would not be removed. To the twelve disciples the Lord Jesus Christ said of the Holy Spirit:

"...he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." -Jn. 14:17 (KJV)

The prepositions are most revealing. He dwelt with the men of the Old Testament but He dwells within the men of grace."

-Ibid, The Indwelling Spirit, p. 138

"God states that His gifts and callings are without repentamce (11:29). This means that God is not an "Indian giver" - giving and taking back again. Salvation does not depend upon the whim of an individual Christian but upon the justifying work of God. The Holy Spirit is implanted once and for all; and when we are placed in Christ by the Holy Spirit, the blessed third person of the Godhead puts the seal of certainty upon us and shuts us into Christ."

-Ibid, Power for Service, p. 139-140

"And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption." Eph. 4:30 (KJV)

"For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again." -2 Cor. 5:14-15 (KJV)

This constraining love must draw us to live so as not to grieve the Holy Spirit, who has sealed us for the day of redemption. Learn this well: we are not only saved, we are also safe. Christ paid the price of our sins, and the Holy Spirit maintains us in our sure position as children of God: brought out of darkness, placed in the light of eternal life, and sealed; that is, shut in, so that we can never get out. Such love demands our love and yieldness."

-Ibid, Sealed, p. 140-141

"We who follow the word of God believe that any teaching or system that places the emphasis on what man can do is false... The presence of the Holy Spirit within the believer is the seal and guarentee of security...We read that God appeared to Noah under his name of God the Creator,..then God appeared unto Noah under His name Jehovah, the Redeemer,

"And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in." -Gen. 7:16 (KJV)

Thus when we entered into Christ, the Creator wrought within us the new birth; when we were safe in Christ, the Redeemer sgut us into Christ by placing upon us the seal of the Holy Spirit."

-Ibid, Safe and Secure, p. 141-142

And one word from myself out of God's Holy word:

"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory." -Eph. 1:13-14 (KJV)

How is all this possible, if, if the Holy Spirit is not active today in the world and in the believer?

God Bless

Till all are one.

[PrincetonGuy]

I want to quote Donald Grey Barnhouse speaking on "A Finished Work."

"And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us." -Rom. 5:5

"Yes, the Holy Spirit has been given to that select company who have turned from confidence and trust in themselves to put their faith and hope in the Savior...We who were dead in trespasses and sins; have been quickened by the Holy Spirit. We had been identified with Adam and the world; we are identified by the Spirit as part of the body of ChristOur bodies had been temples of idols; they became the dwelling place of the Lord Jesus Christ by His Spirit."
-Donald Grey Barnhouse
Romans, Volume II,
A Finished Work, p. 137

"Some have thought that God would or could remove His Spirit after He had once made us alive. Such an idea is never found in the scriptures. It is true in the great Psalm of repentance erring King David cried out:

"Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me." -Psa. 51:11 (KJV)

It is very unfortunate that this verse has been included in the liturgy of the church of England, for multitudes of people chant that prayer every Sunday, and believe that it is possible for God to take His Holy Spirit from those who have believed in Him. David lived in the Old Testament dispensation. The presence of God was in the Holy-of-holies in the tabernacle at Jerusalem. When David prayed: "Cast me not away from thy presence,;" he was saying "Do not exile me from Jerusalem." And when he prayed: "and take not thy holy spirit from me," he was praying that the special power which had been put upon him would not be removed. To the twelve disciples the Lord Jesus Christ said of the Holy Spirit:

"...he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." -Jn. 14:17 (KJV)

The prepositions are most revealing. He dwelt with the men of the Old Testament but He dwells within the men of grace."

-Ibid, The Indwelling Spirit, p. 138

"God states that His gifts and callings are without repentamce (11:29). This means that God is not an "Indian giver" - giving and taking back again. Salvation does not depend upon the whim of an individual Christian but upon the justifying work of God. The Holy Spirit is implanted once and for all; and when we are placed in Christ by the Holy Spirit, the blessed third person of the Godhead puts the seal of certainty upon us and shuts us into Christ."

-Ibid, Power for Service, p. 139-140

"And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption." Eph. 4:30 (KJV)

"For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again." -2 Cor. 5:14-15 (KJV)

This constraining love must draw us to live so as not to grieve the Holy Spirit, who has sealed us for the day of redemption. Learn this well: we are not only saved, we are also safe. Christ paid the price of our sins, and the Holy Spirit maintains us in our sure position as children of God: brought out of darkness, placed in the light of eternal life, and sealed; that is, shut in, so that we can never get out. Such love demands our love and yieldness."

-Ibid, Sealed, p. 140-141

"We who follow the word of God believe that any teaching or system that places the emphasis on what man can do is false... The presence of the Holy Spirit within the believer is the seal and guarentee of security...We read that God appeared to Noah under his name of God the Creator,..then God appeared unto Noah under His name Jehovah, the Redeemer,

"And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in." -Gen. 7:16 (KJV)

Thus when we entered into Christ, the Creator wrought within us the new birth; when we were safe in Christ, the Redeemer sgut us into Christ by placing upon us the seal of the Holy Spirit."

-Ibid, Safe and Secure, p. 141-142

And one word from myself out of God's Holy word:

"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory." -Eph. 1:13-14 (KJV)

How is all this possible, if, if the Holy Spirit is not active today in the world and in the believer?

God Bless


Till all are one.


The questions that Jony asked in the opening post were:

“I am just unsure and wanting to find out - do baptists believe in the holy spirit?”

“If so, do you believe he just doesn't take an active role anymore?”

Therefore I am curious what the theology of the pastor (for 33 years) of the Tenth Presbyterian Church in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, has to do with this thread? Yes, Donald Grey Barnhouse (1895-1960) was a Presbyterian, and not a Baptist!

[edb19]

The questions that Jony asked in the opening post were:

“I am just unsure and wanting to find out - do baptists believe in the holy spirit?”

“If so, do you believe he just doesn't take an active role anymore?”

Therefore I am curious what the theology the pastor (for 33 years) of the Tenth Presbyterian Church in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, has to do with this thread? Yes, Donald Grey Barnhouse (1895-1960) was a Presbyterian, and not a Baptist!

I can't speak for Dean, but will say that my (very Baptist) pastor regularly quotes James Montgomery Boice (pastor at 10th from 1968 until his death in 2000). He also recommends his books (of which I have several and hope to buy more). While Boice was a paedobaptist - he was also reformed and I, for one, learn a lot from him. Of course, if one isn't reformed they won't view him the same way.

That said - you're right that this thread was asking for the Baptist perspective.;):thumbsup:

[DeaconDean]

Donald Grey Barnhouse (1895-1960) was a Presbyterian, and not a Baptist!

God Bless fellow, did I say he was a Baptist??????????????

Just because this man is a Presbyterian does that mean we can't learn from him???????????????????????????????

My grand-father on my mother's side was a ruling elder in the Presbyterian church, and yet, I learned a lot from this Godly man.

I can't speak for Dean, but will say that my (very Baptist) pastor regularly quotes James Montgomery Boice (pastor at 10th from 1968 until his death in 2000).

I like this man, I had several of his commentaries when I was in seminary. Very usefull.

what the theology the pastor (for 33 years) of the Tenth Presbyterian Church in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, has to do with this thread?

Did you not see every quote had something to do with the workings of the Holy Spirit? Geez man.

God Bless

Till all are one.

[edb19]

I like this man, I had several of his commentaries when I was in seminary. Very usefull.


One of these days I intend to purchase Boice's commentary on Romans. :thumbsup:

[DeaconDean]

One of these days I intend to purchase Boice's commentary on Romans. :thumbsup:

Add to that list Donald Grey Barnhouse's commentary on Romans. I'm going through that and it has been absolutely wonderful. You can get Barnhouse's commentary on Christianbooks.com real cheap, $25 for a four volume set.

God Bless

Till all are one.

[LittleladyinChrist]

I believe in the Holy Spirt. I am a Fundamental Christian Baptist. But what I do not believe in/put faith in is the false spirits that are claiming to be the Holy Spirit. Hope that made sence.

[PrincetonGuy]

Donald Grey Barnhouse was a fantastic preacher and a superb illustrator, but he lacked the knowledge and skills for exegesis of the Greek text. Therefore, throughout his exposition of Romans he is dependent upon the exegesis of others. Consequently Barnhouse’s ten volume (current being sold new in four bound volumes) Exposition of Bible Doctrines Taking the Epistle to the Romans as a Point of Departure is never quoted in academic treatments of that epistle. Nonetheless, some of his illustrations are superb and the work is excellent for devotional reading so long as one can overlook the theological aberrations that abound.

I purchased this work in my early days of teaching the Epistle to the Romans and every time that I have taught that epistle I have used my own adaptation of Barnhouse’s exposition of the word ‘separated’ in Rom. 1:1 for it is one of the best illustrative expositions of that very important word in Rom. 1:1 that have read.

Nonetheless, Barnhouse was a Presbyterian through and through and his teachings regarding the Holy Spirit are those of a Presbyterian rather than those of a Baptist. Perhaps someone should begin a thread discussing what Presbyterians believe about the Holy Spirit. This particular thread is about what Baptists believe about the Holy Spirit—a subject that could not be comprehensively treated in less than 25,000 volumes.

[FreeinChrist]

I want to quote Donald Grey Barnhouse speaking on "A Finished Work."

"And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us." -Rom. 5:5

"Yes, the Holy Spirit has been given to that select company who have turned from confidence and trust in themselves to put their faith and hope in the Savior...We who were dead in trespasses and sins; have been quickened by the Holy Spirit. We had been identified with Adam and the world; we are identified by the Spirit as part of the body of ChristOur bodies had been temples of idols; they became the dwelling place of the Lord Jesus Christ by His Spirit."
-Donald Grey Barnhouse
Romans, Volume II,
A Finished Work, p. 137

"Some have thought that God would or could remove His Spirit after He had once made us alive. Such an idea is never found in the scriptures. It is true in the great Psalm of repentance erring King David cried out:

"Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me." -Psa. 51:11 (KJV)

It is very unfortunate that this verse has been included in the liturgy of the church of England, for multitudes of people chant that prayer every Sunday, and believe that it is possible for God to take His Holy Spirit from those who have believed in Him. David lived in the Old Testament dispensation. The presence of God was in the Holy-of-holies in the tabernacle at Jerusalem. When David prayed: "Cast me not away from thy presence,;" he was saying "Do not exile me from Jerusalem." And when he prayed: "and take not thy holy spirit from me," he was praying that the special power which had been put upon him would not be removed. To the twelve disciples the Lord Jesus Christ said of the Holy Spirit:

"...he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." -Jn. 14:17 (KJV)

The prepositions are most revealing. He dwelt with the men of the Old Testament but He dwells within the men of grace."

-Ibid, The Indwelling Spirit, p. 138

"God states that His gifts and callings are without repentamce (11:29). This means that God is not an "Indian giver" - giving and taking back again. Salvation does not depend upon the whim of an individual Christian but upon the justifying work of God. The Holy Spirit is implanted once and for all; and when we are placed in Christ by the Holy Spirit, the blessed third person of the Godhead puts the seal of certainty upon us and shuts us into Christ."

-Ibid, Power for Service, p. 139-140

"And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption." Eph. 4:30 (KJV)

"For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again." -2 Cor. 5:14-15 (KJV)

This constraining love must draw us to live so as not to grieve the Holy Spirit, who has sealed us for the day of redemption. Learn this well: we are not only saved, we are also safe. Christ paid the price of our sins, and the Holy Spirit maintains us in our sure position as children of God: brought out of darkness, placed in the light of eternal life, and sealed; that is, shut in, so that we can never get out. Such love demands our love and yieldness."

-Ibid, Sealed, p. 140-141

"We who follow the word of God believe that any teaching or system that places the emphasis on what man can do is false... The presence of the Holy Spirit within the believer is the seal and guarentee of security...We read that God appeared to Noah under his name of God the Creator,..then God appeared unto Noah under His name Jehovah, the Redeemer,

"And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in." -Gen. 7:16 (KJV)

Thus when we entered into Christ, the Creator wrought within us the new birth; when we were safe in Christ, the Redeemer sgut us into Christ by placing upon us the seal of the Holy Spirit."

-Ibid, Safe and Secure, p. 141-142

And one word from myself out of God's Holy word:

"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory." -Eph. 1:13-14 (KJV)

How is all this possible, if, if the Holy Spirit is not active today in the world and in the believer?

God Bless


Till all are one.


I - a BAPTIST - agree with those quotes. Thanks for sharing them! :thumbsup:

[DeaconDean]

I want apologize to all who have posted here. I am being faulted for quoting a Presbyterian about what he teaches about the Holy Spirit.

If this has offended anybody, I issue a public apology to all.

And having said that, since technically, this is a thread about what:

baptists believe in the holy spirit

I would appreciate no posting of scriptures to back your viewpoint.

The scriptures are not "Baptist" views on the Holy Spirit, they are God's and should not be posted because God is not a "Baptist," and Jesus, was not a "Baptist." The Apostle Paul was not a "Baptist." In fact, none of the writers of the New Testament are "Baptists."

So technically, it would improper, nay, it would be wrong, to include scriptures because the New Testament was written by these men and therefore because these men are not "Baptists," and rightfully, they can't be part of the discussion because they are not "Baptists."

Once again I say, since these men were "Christians" and not "Baptists," therefore, it would be technically incorrect for any body to post scriptures since these men of God are not "Baptists" and this is a thread on "Baptist" viewpoints. If we are going to be "dogmatic" about "Baptist" viewpoints, then lets make it "Baptist," and since Jesus and none of the writers of the Bible are "Baptist," they can not be included.

Now, having said that, I once again apologize to one and all for quoting a Presbyterian to support my position.

If this has offended any, then I apologize here, openly, in the presence of God and all who are present here reading this in this thread. I apologize.

God Bless

Till all are one.

[Hagios17]

lol DeaconDean...

Well i believe in the Holy Ghost. He is definately active still today, with all gifts, etc. I know some Baptists have a hard time with the Spirit because of the teaching that some of the gifts are inactive, but for certain believe the gifts are still active. If you don't acknowledge the spirit your life will definately be "dry"

[OptimisticSmile]

lol DeaconDean...

Well i believe in the Holy Ghost. He is definately active still today, with all gifts, etc. I know some Baptists have a hard time with the Spirit because of the teaching that some of the gifts are inactive, but for certain believe the gifts are still active. If you don't acknowledge the spirit your life will definately be "dry"
not necessarily. I believe some of the gifts have ceased as 1corinthians 13 mentions. and that has in no way hindered my walk. Paul talks about the better way which is faith hope and love. Those are things that all believers have and that is a means for us to confirm Gods word just as the apostolic gifts were given to confirm Gods word. To be a good witness we should focus more on being like christ and embracing the faith hope and love rather than focus on speaking in tongues etc.

[spiritwarrior37]

not necessarily. I believe some of the gifts have ceased as 1corinthians 13 mentions. and that has in no way hindered my walk. Paul talks about the better way which is faith hope and love. Those are things that all believers have and that is a means for us to confirm Gods word just as the apostolic gifts were given to confirm Gods word. To be a good witness we should focus more on being like christ and embracing the faith hope and love rather than focus on speaking in tongues etc.

The gifts of prophecy, knowledge and tounges have not yet ceased. They will not cease until that which is perfect returns.

[OptimisticSmile]

This is something I spoke on in my church recently. If you look at the Greek word Teleion used for "Perfect" you can better see what Paul's intent was for writing 1corinthians 13:8-12
8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
13And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.


All uses of the same Greek word Teleion, all based on root Teleios
1 Corinthians 13: 9-10
τελειον5046 A-ASN
9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

That = Subject, Perfect= adjective modifying subject

Translation: First Clause: But when that perfect thing is come, then that which is a part thing shall cease.

What does the pronoun “that” mean?
Answer: “That” is the prophecies (God’s word given supernaturally), Tongues (God’s word given in languages, a supernatural gift) and Knowledge (The getting of knowledge [God’s word] by prophesying, a supernatural gift.

When the complete [perfect] that is come
When the complete Tongues, Knowledge, Prophecy [word of God] is come

When did the complete Word of God come?
Answer: Revelation 22:18-19

Conclusion: When the perfect that [tongues, prophesy knowledge: The Word of God] is come, that that which is a part thing [tongues, prophesy, knowledge] will be done away with [cease].

============================================================================================
Colossians 1:26-28 “Teaching every man in wisdom, that we may present every man perfect”
τελειον5046 A-ASM
How do we teach every man in wisdom?
Answer: by the mystery made manifest to the saints (v16)
What makes every man perfect?
Answer: the mystery made manifest to the saints
What is the mystery?
Answer: Scripture
============================================================================================
Romans 12:2 “perfect will of God”
τελειον5046 A-NSN
How can we Know Gods perfect will?
Answer: Through the transformation of our minds
What transforms our minds?
Answer: Scripture
============================================================================================

Ephesians 4: 13-15 “perfect man unto the measure of stature of the fullness of Christ”
τελειον5046 A-ASM
What makes us grown men as opposed to children carried about by false doctrines and liars (v14?)
Answer: speaking the Truth in love.
What is truth?
Answer: Gods word (scripture) is truth (John 17:7)
====================================================================================
James 1:4 “perfect work”
τελειον5046 A-ASN
How will we be perfect and entire, wanting nothing?
Answer: by letting patience have her perfect work
What is her “perfect work?”
Answer: Wisdom which God “giveth to all men liberally”
How does he give us wisdom?
Answer: scripture
============================================================================================
James 1:17 “perfect Gift”
τελειον5046 A-NSN
What is the gift that comes from the Father, that is perfect or complete (he uses of his own will)?
Answer: The word of truth (scripture)



==============================================================================================
James 1:25 “perfect law of liberty”
τελειον5046 A-ASM
What is the law?
Answer: God’s word (scripture), Do not be just a hearer [of the word], but a doer [of the word
_________________________________________________________________________

Another passage on the cessation of these gifts
Ephesians 2:19-22
19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Prophets: declared word of God
Apostles: Confirmed God’s word via signs (Mark 16:20, Hebrews 2:4)

see also Revelation 14, Mathew 16:18

What does Hebrews 2:1-4 suggest about these gifts?

1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with diverse miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?


Church History on the cessation of these gifts
Chrysostom (345-407 AD)
On 1 Corinthians 12 he writes: “This entire passage is very obscure: but the obscurity is produced by our ignorance of the facts referred to and by their cessation , being such that they used to occur but no longer take place.” (Homilies On First Corinthians, Vol. XII)

Augustine (354-430 AD)
“In the earliest time, the Holy Spirit fell upon them that believed; and they spake with tongues which they had not learned, as the spirit gave them utterance. These were signs adapted to the time. For there behooved to be that betokening of the Holy Spirit in all tongues, to show that the Gospel of God was to run through all tongues over the whole earth. That thing was done for a sign and it passed away”. (Ten Homilies On The First Epistle Of John, Vol. VII)

Eusebius (263-339AD)
“A recent convert, Montanus by name, through his unquenchable desire for leadership, gave the adversary opportunity against him. And he became beside himself, and being suddenly in a sort of frenzy and ecstasy, he raved, and began to babble and utter strange things, prophesying in a way contrary to the custom of the church handed down by tradition from the beginning. Some of those who heard his spurious utterances at the time were indignant, and they rebuked him as one that was possessed. And he sturred up besides two women, and filled them with the false spirit, so that they talked wildly and unreasonably and strangely.” (Church History Vol. I)

My Conclusion on 1 Corinthians 13: 8-12 verse by verse
8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Verse 8-9: We recieve God’s word in parts through Prophecy, Tongues, and Knowledge

Verse 10: When we have the complete word of God, there will no longer be Prophecy, Tongues and word of Knowledge

Verse 11: When we reach maturity as the Body of Christ through the revelation of God’s word we will put away Prophecy, Tongues and word of Knowledge

Verse 12:
1. At the time this passage was written God’s Word was given through Prophecy, Tongues, and word of Knowledge. These gifts were subject to counterfeit and that is why there are clear guidelines for them. When we look at Gods word completely and directly without looking at it in part obscurely through Prophecy, Tongues and word of Knowledge then we will look upon God’s word directly (face to face)

2. Gods word was given through Prophecy, Tongues, and word of Knowledge. Once the complete word is given these things will cease. While we will have God’s complete word we do not understand everything about it because we have not experienced every event in it. When we meet God face to face then we will understand his word completely having gone through every prophesy in it.

The Application: “The Better Way”
1 Corinthians 12:28-31
28And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

1Corinthians 13:8-13
8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
13And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Why is faith , hope and love (charity) the better way. Because not all christians of the day were gifted with tongues, prophecy and word of Knowlege which were to eventually cease . While believers were to covet the best gifts they were also to embrace the better way of faith , hope and love. The better way is a manifestation in the life of all believers wheras the communication gifts and apostolic gifts were given to only a select group of chosen believers. Where the apostles confirmed the word via signs and wonders we are to confirm God’s word with our faith , hope , and love.

[Erinwilcox]

I'd just like to state that I agree with the Presbyterian quotes. If someone says something that we'd like to say but they convey it better, I see no reason why we can't let them say it for us. Just because the man was Presbyterian doesn't mean that we don't believe the same thing. . .and if a Baptist has something to say that a Presbie already said well, then why not just quote the Presbie and save time?

[PrincetonGuy]

This is something I spoke on in my church recently. If you look at the Greek word Teleion used for "Perfect" you can better see what Paul's intent was for writing 1corinthians 13:8-12



8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
13And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.


All uses of the same Greek word Teleion, all based on root Teleios
1 Corinthians 13: 9-10
τελειον5046 A-ASN
9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

That = Subject, Perfect= adjective modifying subject

Translation: First Clause: But when that perfect thing is come, then that which is a part thing shall cease.

What does the pronoun “that” mean?
Answer: “That” is the prophecies (God’s word given supernaturally), Tongues (God’s word given in languages, a supernatural gift) and Knowledge (The getting of knowledge [God’s word] by prophesying, a supernatural gift.

When the complete [perfect] that is come
When the complete Tongues, Knowledge, Prophecy [word of God] is come

When did the complete Word of God come?
Answer: Revelation 22:18-19

Conclusion: When the perfect that [tongues, prophesy knowledge: The Word of God] is come, that that which is a part thing [tongues, prophesy, knowledge] will be done away with [cease].

============================================================================================
Colossians 1:26-28 “Teaching every man in wisdom, that we may present every man perfect”
τελειον5046 A-ASM
How do we teach every man in wisdom?
Answer: by the mystery made manifest to the saints (v16)
What makes every man perfect?
Answer: the mystery made manifest to the saints
What is the mystery?
Answer: Scripture
============================================================================================
Romans 12:2 “perfect will of God”
τελειον5046 A-NSN
How can we Know Gods perfect will?
Answer: Through the transformation of our minds
What transforms our minds?
Answer: Scripture
============================================================================================

Ephesians 4: 13-15 “perfect man unto the measure of stature of the fullness of Christ”
τελειον5046 A-ASM
What makes us grown men as opposed to children carried about by false doctrines and liars (v14?)
Answer: speaking the Truth in love.
What is truth?
Answer: Gods word (scripture) is truth (John 17:7)
====================================================================================
James 1:4 “perfect work”
τελειον5046 A-ASN
How will we be perfect and entire, wanting nothing?
Answer: by letting patience have her perfect work
What is her “perfect work?”
Answer: Wisdom which God “giveth to all men liberally”
How does he give us wisdom?
Answer: scripture
============================================================================================
James 1:17 “perfect Gift”
τελειον5046 A-NSN
What is the gift that comes from the Father, that is perfect or complete (he uses of his own will)?
Answer: The word of truth (scripture)



==============================================================================================
James 1:25 “perfect law of liberty”
τελειον5046 A-ASM
What is the law?
Answer: God’s word (scripture), Do not be just a hearer [of the word], but a doer [of the word
_________________________________________________________________________

Another passage on the cessation of these gifts
Ephesians 2:19-22
19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Prophets: declared word of God
Apostles: Confirmed God’s word via signs (Mark 16:20, Hebrews 2:4)

see also Revelation 14, Mathew 16:18

What does Hebrews 2:1-4 suggest about these gifts?

1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with diverse miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?


Church History on the cessation of these gifts
Chrysostom (345-407 AD)
On 1 Corinthians 12 he writes: “This entire passage is very obscure: but the obscurity is produced by our ignorance of the facts referred to and by their cessation , being such that they used to occur but no longer take place.” (Homilies On First Corinthians, Vol. XII)

Augustine (354-430 AD)
“In the earliest time, the Holy Spirit fell upon them that believed; and they spake with tongues which they had not learned, as the spirit gave them utterance. These were signs adapted to the time. For there behooved to be that betokening of the Holy Spirit in all tongues, to show that the Gospel of God was to run through all tongues over the whole earth. That thing was done for a sign and it passed away”. (Ten Homilies On The First Epistle Of John, Vol. VII)

Eusebius (263-339AD)
“A recent convert, Montanus by name, through his unquenchable desire for leadership, gave the adversary opportunity against him. And he became beside himself, and being suddenly in a sort of frenzy and ecstasy, he raved, and began to babble and utter strange things, prophesying in a way contrary to the custom of the church handed down by tradition from the beginning. Some of those who heard his spurious utterances at the time were indignant, and they rebuked him as one that was possessed. And he sturred up besides two women, and filled them with the false spirit, so that they talked wildly and unreasonably and strangely.” (Church History Vol. I)

My Conclusion on 1 Corinthians 13: 8-12 verse by verse
8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Verse 8-9: We recieve God’s word in parts through Prophecy, Tongues, and Knowledge

Verse 10: When we have the complete word of God, there will no longer be Prophecy, Tongues and word of Knowledge

Verse 11: When we reach maturity as the Body of Christ through the revelation of God’s word we will put away Prophecy, Tongues and word of Knowledge

Verse 12:
1. At the time this passage was written God’s Word was given through Prophecy, Tongues, and word of Knowledge. These gifts were subject to counterfeit and that is why there are clear guidelines for them. When we look at Gods word completely and directly without looking at it in part obscurely through Prophecy, Tongues and word of Knowledge then we will look upon God’s word directly (face to face)

2. Gods word was given through Prophecy, Tongues, and word of Knowledge. Once the complete word is given these things will cease. While we will have God’s complete word we do not understand everything about it because we have not experienced every event in it. When we meet God face to face then we will understand his word completely having gone through every prophesy in it.

The Application: “The Better Way”
1 Corinthians 12:28-31
28And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

1Corinthians 13:8-13
8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
13And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Why is faith , hope and love (charity) the better way. Because not all christians of the day were gifted with tongues, prophecy and word of Knowlege which were to eventually cease . While believers were to covet the best gifts they were also to embrace the better way of faith , hope and love. The better way is a manifestation in the life of all believers wheras the communication gifts and apostolic gifts were given to only a select group of chosen believers. Where the apostles confirmed the word via signs and wonders we are to confirm God’s word with our faith , hope , and love.

The fact that the contents of this post are based upon lexical and grammatical errors rather than the Biblical truths has been conclusively and incontrovertibly proven in another thread in which this same material was posted. The interpretations given in this post are in direct conflict with the interpretations given throughout the entire history of the Church and they are in direct conflict with every academic Baptist commentary and every academic Baptist paper published on the Greek texts involved. To put this in simple English, what this man has posted here is irresponsible nonsense that does not reflect the belief of any Baptist who is educated in Greek lexicography and grammar, and it is an insult to the belief system of Baptists in general.

[OptimisticSmile]

ok then give me the correct interpretation verse by verse.

[Matthan]

I want apologize to all who have posted here. I am being faulted for quoting a Presbyterian about what he teaches about the Holy Spirit.

If this has offended anybody, I issue a public apology to all.

And having said that, since technically, this is a thread about what:



I would appreciate no posting of scriptures to back your viewpoint.

The scriptures are not "Baptist" views on the Holy Spirit, they are God's and should not be posted because God is not a "Baptist," and Jesus, was not a "Baptist." The Apostle Paul was not a "Baptist." In fact, none of the writers of the New Testament are "Baptists."

So technically, it would improper, nay, it would be wrong, to include scriptures because the New Testament was written by these men and therefore because these men are not "Baptists," and rightfully, they can't be part of the discussion because they are not "Baptists."

Once again I say, since these men were "Christians" and not "Baptists," therefore, it would be technically incorrect for any body to post scriptures since these men of God are not "Baptists" and this is a thread on "Baptist" viewpoints. If we are going to be "dogmatic" about "Baptist" viewpoints, then lets make it "Baptist," and since Jesus and none of the writers of the Bible are "Baptist," they can not be included.

Now, having said that, I once again apologize to one and all for quoting a Presbyterian to support my position.

If this has offended any, then I apologize here, openly, in the presence of God and all who are present here reading this in this thread. I apologize.

God Bless

Till all are one.
John the Baptist was a Baptist, and he is quoted in the Bible. Does that count?????

[LilBoo]

Yes i believe in the Holy Spirit 100%, and the trinity. Father, Son & Holy Spirit are one. Amen...

[rainbowpromises]

Hey,

I am just unsure and wanting to find out - do baptists believe in the holy spirit?

If so, do you believe he just doesn't take an active role anymore?

I am not trying to be rude, just learn.

Thanks for your help.

~Jony

Yes we do!
Active role? I would not be a believer today if it were not for the Holy Spirit. Missionaries would not be led to the mission field. Believers would be empty and without a comforter.
Certainly an active role in my life!

[DeaconDean]

John the Baptist was a Baptist, and he is quoted in the Bible. Does that count?????

^_^ Good one.^_^

God Bless

Till all are one.

[LittleladyinChrist]

The gifts of the spirit are the gifts of the spirit, we cant change that, nor would we want to. Even though I am a fundamental Baptist I see the gifts all around me used in a Biblical fashion, for instance, I believe my boss and I have gifts of discernment, it has been carried out many times, I have a friend who never stops giving and the bible speaks of gifts of giving, Ive seen administration, teaching, prophesy. All used in a biblical fashion. People have to know that have the spirits they see these days are false, we do not wrestle against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers. And if there is a spirit that is against biblical doctrine, sorry but this is a false spirit that leads people away from worshiping and glorifying the true God Jehovah. I was saved in the Charismatic movement/Toronto Airport ministry. I am eternally greatful for God saving me and meeting me, but I am equally greatful that he wanted to bring me into a deeper relationship with him rather then a shallow interpretation, not based on the word but on feelings and a attitude of what do i want/need. Its not all about us, its all about him. :)

[Hagios17]

The gifts of the spirit are the gifts of the spirit, we cant change that, nor would we want to. Even though I am a fundamental Baptist I see the gifts all around me used in a Biblical fashion, for instance, I believe my boss and I have gifts of discernment, it has been carried out many times, I have a friend who never stops giving and the bible speaks of gifts of giving, Ive seen administration, teaching, prophesy. All used in a biblical fashion. People have to know that have the spirits they see these days are false, we do not wrestle against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers. And if there is a spirit that is against biblical doctrine, sorry but this is a false spirit that leads people away from worshiping and glorifying the true God Jehovah. I was saved in the Charismatic movement/Toronto Airport ministry. I am eternally greatful for God saving me and meeting me, but I am equally greatful that he wanted to bring me into a deeper relationship with him rather then a shallow interpretation, not based on the word but on feelings and a attitude of what do i want/need. Its not all about us, its all about him.

An Amen should be in order here:scratch: ... Amen^_^

John 4:20-24 "Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

I couldn't agree with you more. We need the Spirit and the Word... or else its like a dry dry desert.

Just like my father, I had strong doubts about this "Spiritual" experience, and always had the strong idea that Spiritual and Emotional were the selfsame experiences and I was so put off by tongues and prophecy and that sort of stuff. Oh, and as I have grown in the knowledge power and wisdom of God... Spiritual is just so awesome. Weird and unpredictable things happen with Spiritual, but God is Spirit. There are eevn those who say prophecy has ceased, but if it has ceased, then why does it say in revelations that two prophets will come and prophesy? But in truth, I have found that anti-spirit christians are just affraid of the Spirit of God. We must fear God, yes, but not fear to be with him and grow in him.

Oh, so you are also a Fundi? :eek: So you are one of those Christians that stands for truth, and against the tide of ungodliness, shame on you;) ...:thumbsup:

Well, praising yeshua in Spirit and in truth

peace and grace unto you sister!

-Josh

[BereanTodd]

Obviously we believe in the Holy Spirit. Now many (most?) baptists are probably cessasionists which means that they view the miraculous gifts (tongues, healings, etc) to have ceased at the end of the apostolic age.

Personally I am not a cessasionist, I do believe the gifts still exist today, however I do not think that most of what goes on in the charismatic/pentacostal churches is legitimate. Tongues was always a known language, not a bunch of incoherant babble. Even if the babble seen in charismatic churches is biblical tongues, the vast majority of charismatic churches then fail to follow the Biblical guidelines for how to use those gifts.

I think that the gifts were "sign gifts", used to validate the message of the apostles/missionaries to unreached peoples, and that today those gifts are largely existant on the mission field amongst unreached peoples.

As for hacks like Benny Hinn, he is a crook, a liar and a false teacher.