Uniting all Christians as one body?

[Jim47]

I origionaly posted this thread in the conservative sub-forum. I am now moving it to the main forum so everyone can give me their thoughts.


I thought that might get your attention ;)

As you may have guessed I don't believe in ecumenicism, at least as it is commonly thought of. I will witness to anyone and hope that The Lord always gives me the courage to do so, but my question is how do you all view this sites mission statement?

Also, have I ever given anyone the impression that I believe in ecumenicism. Please remember that I do have to allow both conservatives and liberals their rights under forum policy to post their beliefs, but does anyone see me guilty of true ecumenicism?

Thanks for yoiur replies :)

[DaRev]

I thought that might get your attention ;)

As you may have guessed I don't believe in ecumenicism, at least as it is commonly thought of. I will witness to anyone and hope that The Lord always gives me the courage to do so, but my question is how do you all view this sites mission statement?

It is something that will not happen this side of the Parousia. We cannot force a unity where no unity exists.

[porterross]

Also, have I ever given anyone the impression that I believe in ecumenicism.

Well, your little title thingy says you're part of the Ecumenical Team, so you tell us.

[Jim47]

Well, your little title thingy says you're part of the Ecumenical Team, so you tell us.



Yes, I'm aware of that and wished it were a different title, but thats not my point. How do you see me? And how do see the mission statement of this site? Do you agree with it or not?

[The Princess Bride]

You lost me at the "ecu-something-something" (I cant even pronounce it!:P )

How do you see me? And how do see the mission statement of this site? Do you agree with it or not?
I dont know if you care about my opinion or not, but I am going to answer! :P ;)

I see you as I would any other brother or sister in Christ.

Denominations are merely titles placed by man to identify a "set belief" or "principle" to which one abides in the Church.

But we are all ONE in spirit and spiritual body, regardless!

I believe the mission statement of CF is very plaudable, however, I do think it has some ground to cover yet. :)

[Studeclunker]

Yeah, what she said. Princess that is...

How could we all be one church when the Lutheran Church isn't even one church. You think our main forum gets wild and wooly, try the general forum.

There are two times when the church will become one body. Revelations says that the Anti-christ's lutennant will do so under his powers. The other is when the Lord himself returns. I'll wait for the second.

In the meantime, I'll go along with a limited ecumanism. Lutherans have many virtues, like doctrine, theology, and liturgy. Still, I don't think we are perfect. There is much that may not be right with us, that another denomination just may have right.
I may not agree with another denomination, I still respect them. Especially the people who hold true to what they consider biblically based truth. The ones who trouble me are those that start playing games with the veracity of the bible. Like ELCA and some of our own leaders in LCMS.

[C.F.W. Walther]

Yes, I'm aware of that and wished it were a different title, but thats not my point. How do you see me? And how do see the mission statement of this site? Do you agree with it or not?What is the mission statement of this site and what is your idea of ecumenism?

[Jim47]

What is the mission statement of this site and what is your idea of ecumenism?


The mission statement of this site is the title of this thread. When I accepted to be on staff I didn't even know the true meaning if ecumenism. Yeah, I struggle with big words. I still don't know what Theoliga means. I do of course now know the meaning of ecumenical, but again I am interested in knowing if I am guilty of appearing to be in line with this ecumenical movement, or by being on staff of a site that has that as its mission goal does that imply that I subscribe it?

My only reason for taking a Mod's job was to put a conservative in Mod position over the Lutheran forum and nothing else. This still remains my primary purpose, but I have had some counciling with my Pastor and we are trying to determine if I should remain as I am or leave staff.

As you probably know I can't even joing in prayer with you LCMS members, even though I call you all my friends. It would give me great pleasure to have you all join the WELS. At some point I would like to discuss the problems within the LCMS as I am concerned as to the road she is taking. I am quite certain that all of you here are very conservative and confessional, but my mian point is to find answers as to the OP. I'm not afraid of the truth, as I already told my Pastor I will resign if he feels I am in error. My alleginace is to my Lord and Savior and I accept nothing that isn't written in scripture. I don't even subscribe to the idea that Mary is forever a virgin. We discussed that a couple of years back and it can't be proven one way or the other, but what is important is that it really doesn't matter. It has no bearing on our salvation.

What is your verdict please? :)

[porterross]

For my part, I do not see your position and activity here as being ecumenical. The fact that member-posters are necessary to moderate is accepted by most and rightly so.
Having a conservative, fair minded manner and confessional perspective as yours is beneficial to all here and we should be more appreciative of your willingness to serve in the capacity you do so well. I have noticed that you do not take part in most of the debates, but if your pastor has problem with you assisting others or being in a supervisory position here, what's next? Will you have to leave CF completely?
I can tell you that my pastor is not a fan of forums, but he's never advised me to not take part. I think he trusts my ability to discern for myself what is and isn't beneficial. Eat the fish and spit out the bones, as he likes to say. Besides, if we are never in contact with those who are unaware of the truth, how are we to share it with them to be an enlightenment?

The simple answer is, no. You are not guilty of ecumenism and the site itself surely offers that option, but the fact that we are able to remain in areas specific to our denomination so that we can avoid contact with those who reject our doctrine, makes it a matter of choice, not inherent.

The LCMS will resolve its issues soon enough and those of us who are truly conservative and confessional will not give in to liberal attitudes. I can assure you!

[Jim47]

For my part, I do not see your position and activity here as being ecumenical. The fact that member-posters are necessary to moderate is accepted by most and rightly so.
Having a conservative, fair minded manner and confessional perspective as yours is beneficial to all here and we should be more appreciative of your willingness to serve in the capacity you do so well. I have noticed that you do not take part in most of the debates, but if your pastor has problem with you assisting others or being in a supervisory position here, what's next? Will you have to leave CF completely?
I can tell you that my pastor is not a fan of forums, but he's never advised me to not take part. I think he trusts my ability to discern for myself what is and isn't beneficial. Eat the fish and spit out the bones, as he likes to say. Besides, if we are never in contact with those who are unaware of the truth, how are we to share it with them to be an enlightenment?

The simple answer is, no. You are not guilty of ecumenism and the site itself surely offers that option, but the fact that we are able to remain in areas specific to our denomination so that we can avoid contact with those who reject our doctrine, makes it a matter of choice, not inherent.

The LCMS will resolve its issues soon enough and those of us who are truly conservative and confessional will not give in to liberal attitudes. I can assure you!


I thank you very much for your reply. :) I would answer in reply to what you said but I truely want others to offer what they have to say.


I too haope that the LCMS pulls itself back together. To have another strong conservative and confessional voice with all united would be a real blessing.

I ask again, please everyone offer their thoughts, thi is very important to me to have all your opinions. :)

[DaRev]

I thank you very much for your reply. :) I would answer in reply to what you said but I truely want others to offer what they have to say.


I too haope that the LCMS pulls itself back together. To have another strong conservative and confessional voice with all united would be a real blessing.

I ask again, please everyone offer their thoughts, thi is very important to me to have all your opinions. :)

I wish the WELS and ELS would enter dialogue with the LCMS. Invitations have been made and the WELS/ELS refuse to even talk... let alone pray.

I truly wish the LCMS would completely sever its relationship with the ELCA.

[Jim47]

I wish the WELS and ELS would enter dialogue with the LCMS. Invitations have been made and the WELS/ELS refuse to even talk... let alone pray.

I truly wish the LCMS would completely sever its relationship with the ELCA.



I do believe that your remaining relationship with the ELCA is the big thing, however there are other things, but I would like to withold that conversation until I have the OP questions answered. Can you please offer your thoughts as I would really appreciate to hear from both you and Filo. Please don't hold back your true thoughts and feelings. :)

[C.F.W. Walther]

Jim don't worry about what other people say. You believe what you believe as long as you're CHristian. If you would like the whole Christian Church to be together then that's your concern........not theirs.

[LilLamb219]

The unity that this site (more specifically what ERWIN the owner) speaks of is not ecumenical in the nature that would violate your beliefs. Erwin knows that we will never be "unified" by our beliefs until we die or Christ returns, whichever comes first.

The unity here on this board is one that consists of brothers and sisters in Christ who just come together and ...well, type. :)

[Jim47]

The unity that this site (more specifically what ERWIN the owner) speaks of is not ecumenical in the nature that would violate your beliefs. Erwin knows that we will never be "unified" by our beliefs until we die or Christ returns, whichever comes first.

The unity here on this board is one that consists of brothers and sisters in Christ who just come together and ...well, type. :)



Thanks for that explaination, but I would like to ask how you derived to that conclusion. I'm sorry I am a big pest about this but it weighs heavy on my mind, that is whats left of it :eek:

[Edial]

...

As you may have guessed I don't believe in ecumenicism, at least as it is commonly thought of. I will witness to anyone and hope that The Lord always gives me the courage to do so, but my question is how do you all view this sites mission statement?

Also, have I ever given anyone the impression that I believe in ecumenicism. Please remember that I do have to allow both conservatives and liberals their rights under forum policy to post their beliefs, but does anyone see me guilty of true ecumenicism?

Thanks for yoiur replies :)
Jim, you are anything BUT an Ecumenist.

You stress to anyone that would care to listen (and to some that do not :)) is that you are WELS and cannot commune outside of it.

That is not Ecumenism at any stretch of imagination.

You moderate.

Ecumenism in a context of the CF is like ... let's not fight like heathens while diagreeing on theology.

True ecumenists try finding theological agreements where there are differences.

Jim, with your WELS "thickheadedness" :) you are a Separatist who happens not to scream. :)

Thanks, :)
Ed

[Jim47]

Jim, you are anything BUT an Ecumenist.

You stress to anyone that would care to listen (and to some that do not :)) is that you are WELS and cannot commune outside of it.

That is not Ecumenism at any stretch of imagination.

You moderate.

Ecumenism in a context of the CF is like ... let's not fight like heathens while diagreeing on theology.

True ecumenists try finding theological agreements where there are differences.

Jim, with your WELS "thickheadedness" :) you are a Separatist who happens not to scream. :)

Thanks, :)
Ed


Thanks Ed, I much appreciate your thoughts. I am however still wanting more people to respond. ;)

[DaRev]

As you may have guessed I don't believe in ecumenicism, at least as it is commonly thought of. I will witness to anyone and hope that The Lord always gives me the courage to do so, but my question is how do you all view this sites mission statement?

Also, have I ever given anyone the impression that I believe in ecumenicism. Please remember that I do have to allow both conservatives and liberals their rights under forum policy to post their beliefs, but does anyone see me guilty of true ecumenicism?

Thanks for yoiur replies :)

Your presence on the staff here in no way makes you an ecumenist or a Unionist or a Syncretist...

As a moderator you have a unique opportunity to proclaim the gospel truth. I often refer to the words of St. Francis, "Preach the Gospel, and when necessary, use words."

You have, by your moderator acts, demonstrated the truth of the Gospel.

[Jim47]

Your presence on the staff here in no way makes you an ecumenist or a Unionist or a Syncretist...

As a moderator you have a unique opportunity to proclaim the gospel truth. I often refer to the words of St. Francis, "Preach the Gospel, and when necessary, use words."

You have, by your moderator acts, demonstrated the truth of the Gospel.


Thanks Rev. Much appreciated. :)


I would also like to invite our liberal members to give me their thaughts. :)

[Edial]

Your presence on the staff here in no way makes you an ecumenist or a Unionist or a Syncretist...

As a moderator you have a unique opportunity to proclaim the gospel truth. I often refer to the words of St. Francis, "Preach the Gospel, and when necessary, use words."

You have, by your moderator acts, demonstrated the truth of the Gospel.
DaRev, if you and I agree concerning Jim - he's gotta be an "ecumenist".

:)

[seajoy]

Thanks Rev. Much appreciated. :)


I would also like to invite our liberal members to give me their thaughts. :)
Well Jim...I'm not a liberal :) , as you well know, but here are my thoughts.

I feel God led me to CF at a time when I needed friends. It's been a tremendously stressful, and troubling 12 months for me. I came here in July, and one of the first questions I asked was..."Anybody from the WELS out there?" I was told by a guy named Radidio ;) , that yes, indeed there was a fellow named Jim from the WELS, and that I could trust that this whole place was filled with people that would become my second family.

I cry as I type these words, because I don't know where I'd be without the new friends that God has placed in my life. I am able to talk of my problems here in TCL, and have folks of like minds that speak of Christ's love, as taught in Scripture, tell me "It will be alright seajoy."

You, Jim, are one of those souls. You lead with a gentle, but firm hand...teaching God's Truth along the way. I understand where you are coming from with your concerns (which I hope I didn't cause when perhaps I've complained about something some liberal said), but please know that God has used you to help many of us here, and you are not ecumenical.
You would not compromise God's Word, I know you too well.

Thank you, dear brother, for all you do. And thanks to the rest of my friends here also.
seajoy :hug:

[ctay]

All your doing as moderator is keeping things from getting out of hand. All I can say is if your having trouble with it and don't think you should be doing it, don't, follow your heart.

[BigNorsk]

Well Jim, here's what I would say.

First the motto. I don't like it. It is Jesus, the Lord himself who unites us into one body. It seems just a wee bit sacriligious to claim that for the site. (wee used in honor of St. Patrick's day)

Now I know the WELS and really all branches of Waltherism are really strict on unionism and syncretism. I think in your situation the thing you have to ask is whether this web site is the church or a religious service.

I imagine that can get to be a bit difficult with the WELS and their position that even to pray with someone not in full communion is unionism, but you don't have to participate in prayer on the site, nor for that matter with any other form of worship.

So I can't see where it's unionism or syncretism to participate. Despite whatever the site may claim to want to be or claim it is, it is a place where really everyone can come and discuss things.

I would think if you cannot participate here, you couldn't go to a restaurant with people who weren't WELS and discuss anything either.

I just don't think it fits.

Now I would say if the site ever starts to conduct worship services, I'm probably gone, and I suspect you would too.

Marv

[Jim47]

seajoy

Well Jim...I'm not a liberal :) ,

Gee! You had me fooled ;)






I feel God led me to CF at a time when I needed friends. It's been a tremendously stressful, and troubling 12 months for me. I came here in July, and one of the first questions I asked was..."Anybody from the WELS out there?" I was told by a guy named Radidio ;) , that yes, indeed there was a fellow named Jim from the WELS, and that I could trust that this whole place was filled with people that would become my second family.

I cry as I type these words, because I don't know where I'd be without the new friends that God has placed in my life. I am able to talk of my problems here in TCL, and have folks of like minds that speak of Christ's love, as taught in Scripture, tell me "It will be alright seajoy."

You, Jim, are one of those souls. You lead with a gentle, but firm hand...teaching God's Truth along the way. I understand where you are coming from with your concerns (which I hope I didn't cause when perhaps I've complained about something some liberal said), but please know that God has used you to help many of us here, and you are not ecumenical.
You would not compromise God's Word, I know you too well.

Thank you, dear brother, for all you do. And thanks to the rest of my friends here also.
seajoy :hug:



I really appreciate that SeaJoy

You are a special friend to me too. I also appreciate your encouragement. I am also glad to hear that you don't think I would ever compromise God's Word. I know Satan works over time on all of us.

[Jim47]

Well Jim, here's what I would say.

First the motto. I don't like it. It is Jesus, the Lord himself who unites us into one body. It seems just a wee bit sacriligious to claim that for the site. (wee used in honor of St. Patrick's day)

Now I know the WELS and really all branches of Waltherism are really strict on unionism and syncretism. I think in your situation the thing you have to ask is whether this web site is the church or a religious service.

I imagine that can get to be a bit difficult with the WELS and their position that even to pray with someone not in full communion is unionism, but you don't have to participate in prayer on the site, nor for that matter with any other form of worship.

So I can't see where it's unionism or syncretism to participate. Despite whatever the site may claim to want to be or claim it is, it is a place where really everyone can come and discuss things.

I would think if you cannot participate here, you couldn't go to a restaurant with people who weren't WELS and discuss anything either.

I just don't think it fits.

Now I would say if the site ever starts to conduct worship services, I'm probably gone, and I suspect you would too.

Marv


I know lots of folks think of this as church which is really sad. They have no idea how far removed they are from real worship.

I can also assure you that I will race you to the door if they ever try to hold a religious service here. :)

[LilLamb219]

This site does not claim to be a church or a substitute for a church....no matter how confused some people are.

People who even use "fellowship" on this site use it very different from one another.

[Studeclunker]

Worship service here in the forum? Oi, vay! That sounds like a Schulerism (as in Robert Schuler of Garden Grove, CA). You know, he sends out the elements of communion through the mail? You can participate in communion whilst watching the service on TV! Of course, ol' Bobby doesn't think it's much more than grape juice and cookies...:doh: :sigh:


Jim, you and I have disagreed sharply from time to time. You are definately not an ecuminist. Ask your pastor when he wants you to dress in black and drive a horse and buggy? Even WELS isn't Amish or Mennonite. I have a few issues with your church, separatisim isn't one of them. If your pastor is promoting this, it's his personal problem. Yes, I looked closely at WELS and what your branch believes. The pastor at the Garden Grove church probably got very weary with my constant questions. The poor fellow was probably very glad that I went to Redeemer in Huntington Beach. Nevertheless, if LCMS continues down the road it's currently taking, I'll probably end up at a WELS church. :sigh: No offense, I just find a lot of the restrictions... um, restricting, suffocating, whatever...:sorry:

[Jim47]

Worship service here in the forum? Oi, vay! That sounds like a Schulerism (as in Robert Schuler of Garden Grove, CA). You know, he sends out the elements of communion through the mail? You can participate in communion whilst watching the service on TV! Of course, ol' Bobby doesn't think it's much more than grape juice and cookies...:doh: :sigh:


Jim, you and I have disagreed sharply from time to time. You are definately not an ecuminist. Ask your pastor when he wants you to dress in black and drive a horse and buggy? Even WELS isn't Amish or Mennonite. I have a few issues with your church, separatisim isn't one of them. If your pastor is promoting this, it's his personal problem. Yes, I looked closely at WELS and what your branch believes. The pastor at the Garden Grove church probably got very weary with my constant questions. The poor fellow was probably very glad that I went to Redeemer in Huntington Beach. Nevertheless, if LCMS continues down the road it's currently taking, I'll probably end up at a WELS church. :sigh: No offense, I just find a lot of the restrictions... um, restricting, suffocating, whatever...:sorry:



Hmm, I don't remember any sharp disagreements, at least heated ones :)

I actually think a lot of you and agree with you most of the time.

I don't have adequate time to respond right now and I really don't want to say a lot as what I am looking for is yet more responces :)

May I suggest to everyone that they read the book on fellowship from Northwestern Publising House named Church Fellowship by John Brug. It pretty clearly gives the reason for all our practices and scriture references to support.

[C.F.W. Walther]

Well Jim I guess I read the OP wrong. Thought you were for ecumenism. My mistake. In my response though I was still supporting you in whatever your endevor.

You are a good example of what a Christian should be and what a Lutheran should be. As I've said before if we don't want to adhere to the teachings of our synods then we should go someplace else. I see that in you and it's great that you stand up for your principles and synod.

We have our forums to express what we believe and that would be just like us living under a regime that we don't believe in but we are still good witnesses for our faith. No matter what CF advocates we can be true witnesses for Christ.

[ricg]

I don't think there's anything wrong with ecumenicism, so long as it is properly understood. Christians should be in dialogue seeking unity, which is how I interpret the mission, and I think it is recognized as such at the macro-level by the existence of the distinct, denominational boards. Problems arise when priority goes to feel-good togetherism based on compromising some truth or truths in God's Word, but we cannot, on the other hand, just say, "We have the truth. If you're interested, let us know."

This issue I've never been completely comfortable with myself, is that our TC board tosses together what are, in fact, distinct denominations that are separated for a reason. That we appear together here and with repect to our icons, is a bit of a papering over of the facts, in my opinion. It were better there were separate boards for Lutheran denominations, but we've had that debate. You've got the WELS logo out, so that helps, but there may be a few folks out there who don't know what that is, so it gets to the argument of whether your presence here sends out a false message that Lutheran differences don't matter much, at least not to you. In fairness, that consideration might need to be balanced with the opportunity, as others have pointed out, to witness to the truth or make the term Lutheran appear more like what you think it should mean voicing your opinion. I've toyed with the idea of putting a disclaimer in my signature.

My thoughts,

Ricg

[DaSeminarian]

The way I look at it is this. If God had wanted us to be united on earth he would work it out so that it happens, but I believe that the only time that we will be united in one body will be in heaven. Those who take Holy Communion together are in one body, but since we all do not have the same understanding about Holy Communion we can not be in unity with one another completely.

It is not up to us as humans to force God's hand in uniting all of us.

[Flipper]

I origionaly posted this thread in the conservative sub-forum. I am now moving it to the main forum so everyone can give me their thoughts.


I thought that might get your attention ;)

As you may have guessed I don't believe in ecumenicism, at least as it is commonly thought of. I will witness to anyone and hope that The Lord always gives me the courage to do so, but my question is how do you all view this sites mission statement?

Also, have I ever given anyone the impression that I believe in ecumenicism. Please remember that I do have to allow both conservatives and liberals their rights under forum policy to post their beliefs, but does anyone see me guilty of true ecumenicism?

Thanks for yoiur replies :)

I always thought you provided a fantastic example of what it means to be WELS. I have NEVER seen you compromise your beliefs. I don't post so much, but I do read a lot. I may not agree with everything you say, but you have certainly earned my respect - and a rethinking or two of what my views are on some thinigs - that can't be a bad thing, right?

As far as your position as moderator, I always thought you to be fair, and you do a good job.

For this board to work, there should be a healthy mix of liberal, moderate and conservative moderators, if anything, to keep each other in check. This board can be a great place to witness, but it's ludicrous to think it would be a substitute for worship.

I do have some confusion with the term ecumenicism. Personally, I've prayerfully decided to never again take communion in a church that is not my denomination, unless that church has a similar understanding of what we are taking. I also would never baptise my child in another church that's not my denomination because other churches do not view baptism in the same way. In those instances, and I'm sure others, we, as Lutherans (or in my case, the LCMS), should not be ecumenical.

However, I never understood the idea of not being allowed to pray with someone who is not of your denomination. Regardless of our interpretations of the Bible, most all mainstream denominations believe in the same God, and the same Jesus - I have yet to see proof that God hears our prayers any differently than those of other Christian denominations. Further, prayer, IMHO, can be our most powerful witness to others. I can see where it would be dangerous to pray with a wiccan, or even pray the specific Hail Mary prayer, for example, but I also can't see why I can't pray with my Baptist or my Catholic friend if the prayer is in Jesus' name.

Technically, this would mean we can't say Grace at the dinner table if there's a Baptist and/or a Methodist at the same table? I fail to see the logic, but I'm willing to listen and give it some thought if someone can come up with a better explanation than what I've had on this.

[Edial]

I always thought you provided a fantastic example of what it means to be WELS. I have NEVER seen you compromise your beliefs. I don't post so much, but I do read a lot. I may not agree with everything you say, but you have certainly earned my respect - and a rethinking or two of what my views are on some thinigs - that can't be a bad thing, right?

As far as your position as moderator, I always thought you to be fair, and you do a good job.

For this board to work, there should be a healthy mix of liberal, moderate and conservative moderators, if anything, to keep each other in check. This board can be a great place to witness, but it's ludicrous to think it would be a substitute for worship.

I do have some confusion with the term ecumenicism. Personally, I've prayerfully decided to never again take communion in a church that is not my denomination, unless that church has a similar understanding of what we are taking. I also would never baptise my child in another church that's not my denomination because other churches do not view baptism in the same way. In those instances, and I'm sure others, we, as Lutherans (or in my case, the LCMS), should not be ecumenical.

However, I never understood the idea of not being allowed to pray with someone who is not of your denomination. Regardless of our interpretations of the Bible, most all mainstream denominations believe in the same God, and the same Jesus - I have yet to see proof that God hears our prayers any differently than those of other Christian denominations. Further, prayer, IMHO, can be our most powerful witness to others. I can see where it would be dangerous to pray with a wiccan, or even pray the specific Hail Mary prayer, for example, but I also can't see why I can't pray with my Baptist or my Catholic friend if the prayer is in Jesus' name.

Technically, this would mean we can't say Grace at the dinner table if there's a Baptist and/or a Methodist at the same table? I fail to see the logic, but I'm willing to listen and give it some thought if someone can come up with a better explanation than what I've had on this.
I think your explanation makes a lot of sense. :)

Thanks,
Ed

[Protoevangel]

Jim,

I have never seen you take any action that I would consider ecumenist.

I have seen you enforce the rules in a fair, equitable manner. Would your pastor have a problem with you being in a governmental role? One where you had to enforce secular laws; where you took your role seriously, and enforced those laws as fairly as you could? I don't see your role here any differently than that.

I have always looked up to you, both in your role as mod, and you as a person.

[Jim47]

I thank you all for your responces. As much as I would like to address each post I really hope to still get some more replies so I don't want to stifle conversation. Keep'em coming please ;)

[LilLamb219]

What more are you looking for, Jim? More input from other people who haven't written yet, or more elaborate discussion on what was already said...by people who may or may not have posted already?

[Jim47]

What more are you looking for, Jim? More input from other people who haven't written yet, or more elaborate discussion on what was already said...by people who may or may not have posted already?



I do hope to hear from more people but I also want you all to discuss this as much as you are willing, including opposing opinions. I moved this thread here so all would fell free to discuss. If however you'va all posted your thoughts thats all I can ask for. If some folks don't want to respond thats fine too, its all voluntary :)

I really appreciate each and every comment.

[Flipper]

I hope this doesn't come out too weird, and since you did say we could elaborate further...

Any time I see the letters WELS, the back of my mind goes "that's the church that doesn't let women vote on ANYTHING." I'm sorry - I can't help it.

However, I've found every single male WELS member** here not only nice, but they have such a command of scripture, and the distinction between law and gospel, that I can't help but learn from them. Further, the male WELS members can convey a point that is difficult for a moderate like me to accept, without berating, demeaning, or generally knocking down one's core faith, and still get their point across. You are one of the most gentle and caring souls I've ever met.

If all the male members of the nearest WELS church to me were like you and Reich------- (can't spell tonight, and I wish he would come back), I might even consider joining, even though I could never vote on the color of the carpeting. I could even make myself stomach 100% traditional music, because it really is who you are fellowshipping with that counts. Only problem is that I probably wouldn't be able to get my husband to join - too conservative for him. Oh well.

Jim - It bothers me that your pastor might be telling you that you shouldn't be here. Please tell your pastor that it's pretty unaminous here (from what I've seen) that you are way too good of a witness to leave the moderator post you have.










**I can say the same for the female WELS members as I was saying for the male, but I was trying to make a point here.

[seajoy]

**I can say the same for the female WELS members as I was saying for the male, but I was trying to make a point here.
Hey, thanks Flip! :hug:

[BigChrisfilm]

I origionaly posted this thread in the conservative sub-forum. I am now moving it to the main forum so everyone can give me their thoughts.


I thought that might get your attention ;)

As you may have guessed I don't believe in ecumenicism, at least as it is commonly thought of. I will witness to anyone and hope that The Lord always gives me the courage to do so, but my question is how do you all view this sites mission statement?

Also, have I ever given anyone the impression that I believe in ecumenicism. Please remember that I do have to allow both conservatives and liberals their rights under forum policy to post their beliefs, but does anyone see me guilty of true ecumenicism?

Thanks for yoiur replies :)
I believe this sites mission statement is to bring about the reigen of the Anti-Christ. Too extreme? Well, it doesn't matter, because that's what they want to do. Even if they don't know that's what they are doing.

[seajoy]

I believe this sites mission statement is to bring about the reigen of the Anti-Christ. Too extreme? Well, it doesn't matter, because that's what they want to do. Even if they don't know that's what they are doing.
How many more responses do you want, Jim? :)

[porterross]

I believe this sites mission statement is to bring about the reigen of the Anti-Christ. Too extreme? Well, it doesn't matter, because that's what they want to do. Even if they don't know that's what they are doing.


Okie Dokie then.

[Jim47]

All good comments. Thanks :)

I really think continuing this discussion is good for everyone. If anything we all need to take close look at how we value God's Word and be careful to never sacrifice His truthes just to give artificial comfort to somenone. I'm hoing that Administrators will become aware of our discussion as well. :preach:

[LilLamb219]

Artificial comfort? I think it's pretty genuine :)

[DaRev]

The thing that tweaks my nose is that CF has thrown all non-Roman Catholic and non-Orthodox groups under the umbrella "Protestant." There is a great chasm of differences between the Lutheran (and even within the "Lutherans"), Anglican Communion, Reformed, and Evangelical camps to be thrown under one umbrella. If CF wishes to do that, then why not put Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox into one group as well?


There.:preach: I feel better now.

[The Princess Bride]

The thing that tweaks my nose is that CF has thrown all non-Roman Catholic and non-Orthodox groups under the umbrella "Protestant." There is a great chasm of differences between the Lutheran (and even within the "Lutherans"), Anglican Communion, Reformed, and Evangelical camps to be thrown under one umbrella. If CF wishes to do that, then why not put Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox into one group as well?


There.:preach: I feel better now.
True that! :D

[Melethiel]

The thing that tweaks my nose is that CF has thrown all non-Roman Catholic and non-Orthodox groups under the umbrella "Protestant." There is a great chasm of differences between the Lutheran (and even within the "Lutherans"), Anglican Communion, Reformed, and Evangelical camps to be thrown under one umbrella. If CF wishes to do that, then why not put Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox into one group as well?


There.:preach: I feel better now.
This discussion has been going around and around and around in the Support forums since the announcement...I don't like it either. The Anglicans also aren't too happy.

[Flipper]

All good comments. Thanks :)

I really think continuing this discussion is good for everyone. If anything we all need to take close look at how we value God's Word and be careful to never sacrifice His truths just to give artificial comfort to someone. I'm hoping that Administrators will become aware of our discussion as well. :preach:

Nothing I said was artificial.

[Jim47]

Nothing I said was artificial.



:) Yes, I already knew that Flipper. I also appreciated your reply.

[QuiltAngel]

When I first found CF, I was looking for a place where Christians could fellowship and discuss theology as well as life, in a way that those of us who have never studied in a seminary could understand. I joined, but then did not post too much for many different reasons. I have since become more active. I have tried some of the other areas here at CF but always come home to TCL. Hey, I am most comfortable here and have also felt judged and such in other areas.

Sites that are this big are going to have things that one objects to. Sometimes parts of the mission statements may not be what we would have them. Names of positions are not what we would name them.

Being a mod is not an easy thing to do. If you feel that you are compromising what you believe with being a mod, then you may want to step down. You should not have to compromise your beliefs. Take a look at the job description and the expectations of you, whether this is something you can be a part of and pray about it. You will probably have to consider the position many times as things change on forums. Yet, we do need mods at different points of the spectrum.

[contriteheart]

Hi Jim,

Well, seeing as I'm a Methodist, I'm not sure you'll want to hear from me, but I do believe that in my time hanging out at TCL, we did get know one another a bit, eh? And seeing as you did not limit your question to Lutherans, I'm going to be so bold as to reply.

It is apparent to me that you value the Bible greatly. Why ask your pastor or people here what you should do when I believe that the Bible itself can give you the answer?

Obviously the Bible does not address the topic of internet moderating. However, there are principles about how to deal with debatable matters. This verse, for instance, I think might apply:

"I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died. Therefore do not let what is for you a good thing be spoken of as evil; for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. For he who in this way serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. So then we pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another. Do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are clean, but they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense. It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles. The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin." (Romans 14:14-23, NASB95)

So what I get from this is that if your conscience is bothered by this, then for you, it is sin (but not necessarily for others who do not have the same issues of conscience about this debatable matter). It doesn't really matter whether it is sin for your pastor or for anyone else on this board, if you believe it is wrong, for you it is.

Also, if you feel that this would scandalize other Christians who know about your activities here, you would not be walking according to love.

If you, on the other hand, have a clear conscience about moderating, and you believe that to do so would be walking according to love, then you should do so with peace.

Either way, I think the only one who knows what you should do (apart from the Lord) is you.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating moral relativism in any way. There are many, many things that are clearly wrong because God says they are. I just think this is one of those debatable matters in which this principle applies.

With love and appreciation for you - my brother in Christ,
Grace

[Jim47]

Hi Grace :wave:

Before I reply, I would like to ask you a question. I see lots of folks holding the "Repent" sign, what is it we are supposed to repent of? :)

I hope you know that you are always welcome here, and of course I am haapy to have you post in my thread. In fact I am more concerned how others which are not Lutherans see this as I already knew how my friends here would re-act, just as they have by supporting me. :) I thank you all for that.

I hope I haven't given the impression that my Pastor is forcing me to resign, as that is not true. Again what this is all about is people's perceptions. If I were to make someone stumble in their faith because they see me as a devout Lutheran joining with hetrodox believers and saying that I no longer value God's teachings as truth then I have sinned against God and those people whom I have damaged.

That in a nutshell is what this is all about. It has nothing to do with me personaly. My faith and strength remain firm in the Lord and I trust in Him to keep me for that great day when He returns.

Erwin did recently explain in a staff thread that he doesn't expect evceryone here to share the same beliefs nor does he necessarily want them to. So I'm not sure where this leaves me. I do however trust my Pastor to help me figure it out.

Again I thank everyone for their replies. If anyone else wants to reply thats fine, but I can't ask you all to keep hashing this over. You've all voiced your thoughts and for that I am thankful. :)

[contriteheart]

Thanks, Jim.

The repent sign is a reminder for myself. It's not for anyone else. :) As for why others hold them, I have no idea.

-Grace

[DaSeminarian]

Hi Jim,

Well, seeing as I'm a Methodist, I'm not sure you'll want to hear from me, but I do believe that in my time hanging out at TCL, we did get know one another a bit, eh? And seeing as you did not limit your question to Lutherans, I'm going to be so bold as to reply.

It is apparent to me that you value the Bible greatly. Why ask your pastor or people here what you should do when I believe that the Bible itself can give you the answer?

I think that Jim is wise to seek the counsel of others more learned than he for the answer especially if he is not quite sure what the scriptures are telling him.

Obviously the Bible does not address the topic of internet moderating. However, there are principles about how to deal with debatable matters. This verse, for instance, I think might apply:

"I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died. Therefore do not let what is for you a good thing be spoken of as evil; for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. For he who in this way serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. So then we pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another. Do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are clean, but they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense. It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles. The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin." (Romans 14:14-23, NASB95)

So what I get from this is that if your conscience is bothered by this, then for you, it is sin (but not necessarily for others who do not have the same issues of conscience about this debatable matter). It doesn't really matter whether it is sin for your pastor or for anyone else on this board, if you believe it is wrong, for you it is.

Not necessarily. Sin isn't just about the conscience being bothered. Your conscience can be bothered by something that is not sin. Sin is breaking God's commandments. What this is about is not causing your brother in Christ to stumble if he is weak in his faith.

Also, if you feel that this would scandalize other Christians who know about your activities here, you would not be walking according to love.

See even you think so, but it is not about what you said first.

If you, on the other hand, have a clear conscience about moderating, and you believe that to do so would be walking according to love, then you should do so with peace.

Either way, I think the only one who knows what you should do (apart from the Lord) is you.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating moral relativism in any way. There are many, many things that are clearly wrong because God says they are. I just think this is one of those debatable matters in which this principle applies.

With love and appreciation for you - my brother in Christ,
Grace

Grace,

God gives us different vocations. For Jim, moderating is a vocation he has accepted to do. I think he does a great job with it and he has been by far the best moderator I have ever seen on TCL or any other forum on CF.

But it is an awesome responsibility and when one has this kind of responsibility it can be burdensome. I wouldn't want this job on the internet, but I do want to be a Pastor and have thus entered a seminary in the past year to begin studies. That vocation is something that I think Jim, though he has respect for the office has not ever indicated that he was interested.

I don't think he should question his ability to moderate on this forum as from what I have seen he is more than apt.

Scott

[C.F.W. Walther]

Jim I'm not going to go on and on about this but one thing I would personally remember is that we witness to all people through our actions and beliefs and that we can't hide our light under a bushel. To me this forum is a witnessing agent even though I havn't done a very good job of it lately, I still think that for any Christian that uses this forum is witnessing.

We don't live in a buble here the same way we don't live in a bubble in real life. If I would see anyone in distress or dying in real life I would pray for them, and even with them, to ask them if they know Chirst as there savior or ask them to ask God to forgive their sins or even heal them.

We don't have to practice unionism here only witness to other people that are errant, sick or lost. If that means praying for them or witnessing to them then that is precious to God.

Sometimes there is a differance between praying for them than praying with them.