What is the "purpose" of church?

[BereanTodd]

Piggybacking on the thread which focusses on the PDL book by Rick Warren, I wanted to get others thoughts on why and what we come to church for. What is our "Purpose" since Mr. Warren so greatly wants us to discover that?

Well, if we go to the book of Acts we would find the believers coming together for fellowship and teaching together, AS believers. In fact Paul strongly chastised both the Corinthian church, and the audience of Hebrews for not being able to deal with, or not dealing with the deeper things. They were still on elementary issues and that was seen as bad.

In the Bible, in the NT church, in Acts, the people WENT out evangelizing. We are sent OUT into the world. Evangelising has nothing to do with making an unbeliever feel like he enjoys the Sunday service, and in fact if he does, then something is probably wrong. We are told that the Gospel is a stumbling block, and an affront to the world.

Now I'm not talking about music - I love Praise and Worship music. But the general forms of preaching and services have been altered to try and make lost people comfortable in church, sermons have been dumbed down, the whole Gospel doesn't get preached anylonger.

It's a sad day. I long for the church to be the church, and stop trying to befriend the world.

[Phileoeklogos]

Our purpose;
1Pe 2:9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

[Thomas35]

Piggybacking on the thread which focusses on the PDL book by Rick Warren, I wanted to get others thoughts on why and what we come to church for. What is our "Purpose" since Mr. Warren so greatly wants us to discover that?

Well, if we go to the book of Acts we would find the believers coming together for fellowship and teaching together, AS believers. In fact Paul strongly chastised both the Corinthian church, and the audience of Hebrews for not being able to deal with, or not dealing with the deeper things. They were still on elementary issues and that was seen as bad.

In the Bible, in the NT church, in Acts, the people WENT out evangelizing. We are sent OUT into the world. Evangelising has nothing to do with making an unbeliever feel like he enjoys the Sunday service, and in fact if he does, then something is probably wrong. We are told that the Gospel is a stumbling block, and an affront to the world.

Now I'm not talking about music - I love Praise and Worship music. But the general forms of preaching and services have been altered to try and make lost people comfortable in church, sermons have been dumbed down, the whole Gospel doesn't get preached anylonger.

It's a sad day. I long for the church to be the church, and stop trying to befriend the world.
You are so right on this thread. The church is to be a place where we come together and build each other up and learn how to reach people outside the church. The last thing Jesus told Christians to do was tell the world.
People in my old church will say they don't know what to say to people. You tell people what Jesus has done for you, and what you have because of His sacrifice.
I've heard numbers that only about 2% to 10% of so called Christians witness to people. In John 15 its says if we do not produce fruit we will be cut off and thrown in the lake of fire.
Your right people don't want to hear the truth in church they want their ears tickled.

God Bless

[Iosias]

The primary role of the Church is to worship God

[Seeker of the Truth]

For those of you who are saying that we must go out and evangelize, what's the point?

If everybody's faith is predestined, why should we go out into the world and share our faith?

Sorry for the off-topic post, but I believe one of you have posted in the predestination thread on behalf of absolute predestination.

[edb19]

1. As God is the head of the church, the focus of our worship (which is, as Todd said a lot more than music) is God. Our worship is to glorify and praise Him and Him alone

2. The goal of the church is the equipping of the saints and for edification of the body of Christ.

3. Administration of the sacraments (baptism & the Lord's Table)

[Iosias]

For those of you who are saying that we must go out and evangelize, what's the point?

If everybody's faith is predestined, why should we go out into the world and share our faith?

Sorry for the off-topic post, but I believe one of you have posted in the predestination thread on behalf of absolute predestination.

As someone who is mislabelled a Hyper-Calvinist might I suggest that Romans 10 contains the answer ;)

[BereanTodd]

For those of you who are saying that we must go out and evangelize, what's the point?

The point is that the seeker sensitive churches make the job of the Sunday morning to be evangelism and outreach to the lost. That is not the Biblical model.

If everybody's faith is predestined, why should we go out into the world and share our faith?

Sorry for the off-topic post, but I believe one of you have posted in the predestination thread on behalf of absolute predestination.

That is completely and totally off-topic but I will answer once, anything else please open a new thread. Real simple - God did not only predestine the ends (i.e. those who would be saved), but also the means. He has chosen to use the foolishness of our preaching and evangelising as the tool by which to call out His elect.

Could He magically appear to everyone as He did to Paul? Sure. But He has not chosen to do so. The famous CH Spurgeon once said when asked the same thing (and this is a loose quote) "If God made all of the elect with a yellow stripe down their backs then we could go around pulling out shirt tails and only preaching to them; but he hasn't, so instead we preach to all creation as we are commanded to, and the Spirit uses those means to call out His elect."

[Seeker of the Truth]

As someone who is mislabelled a Hyper-Calvinist might I suggest that Romans 10 contains the answer ;)

Great! However, the point I'm trying to show goes unmarked.

Romans 10:11-14

"For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be put to shame. For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek: for the same [Lord] is Lord of all, and is rich unto all that call upon him: for, Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? "

Anybody can be saved...


The point is that the seeker sensitive churches make the job of the Sunday morning to be evangelism and outreach to the lost. That is not the Biblical model.



That is completely and totally off-topic but I will answer once, anything else please open a new thread. Real simple - God did not only predestine the ends (i.e. those who would be saved), but also the means. He has chosen to use the foolishness of our preaching and evangelising as the tool by which to call out His elect.

Could He magically appear to everyone as He did to Paul? Sure. But He has not chosen to do so. The famous CH Spurgeon once said when asked the same thing (and this is a loose quote) "If God made all of the elect with a yellow stripe down their backs then we could go around pulling out shirt tails and only preaching to them; but he hasn't, so instead we preach to all creation as we are commanded to, and the Spirit uses those means to call out His elect."

Hmm, the great Spurgeon or God's Word?

I understand what you are saying, but you're missing my point. God did not choose to save only the ones He (supposedly) gave faith to. He chose to save the ones that have the faith by their own free will.

Also, I will not start another pointless thread over predestination. If you believe in absolute predestination, I want to start seeing you apply it to every belief you think you have because you obviously aren't here.

[Efrain]

Church- Latin: ecclesia from Greek: ek-kalein, to call out of. It is for God to call together his people and the Church belongs to him. The Church draws life from the word and the Body of Christ so becomes Christ's Body. The world was created for the sake of the Church. The Church is to fulfill the mission of the Holy Spirit.

[mlqurgw]

The purpose of the church is, according to 1Tim. 3:15-16, to preserve, promote and proclaim the truth of God in Christ. We are not the source of truth nor the foundation of the truth, God is the source and Christ is the foundation.
Our purpose is to proclaim truth to the generation in which we live.
We have another purpose that is just as important, though not actually separate but is part of the first. The proclamation of the glory of God in Christ. We are to proclaim to all men and women the glorious Gospel of Christ. Though we do help the poor we are not a welfare agency. Though we proclaim the whole council of God we are not a counseling center. Though we may affect politics we are not a political organization. We are a called out assembly who worships God and serves the generation we live in by proclaiming His truth.

[mlqurgw]

For those of you who are saying that we must go out and evangelize, what's the point?

If everybody's faith is predestined, why should we go out into the world and share our faith?

Sorry for the off-topic post, but I believe one of you have posted in the predestination thread on behalf of absolute predestination. You once again show your complete and obstinate lack of understanding of that which you oppose. Repeating the same straw man doesn't make it true. You have had it shown to you numerous times in numerous threads that your conclusions are wrong but perniciously seek to hijack another to promote your straw man. Give it a break. I know my patience is wearing thin and suspect it is true of others as well.

[Seeker of the Truth]

You once again show your complete and obstinate lack of understanding of that which you oppose. Repeating the same straw man doesn't make it true. You have had it shown to you numerous times in numerous threads that your conclusions are wrong but perniciously seek to hijack another to promote your straw man. Give it a break. I know my patience is wearing thin and suspect it is true of others as well.
Ron,

I'm not trying to hijack another thread, I'm simply trying get people's theology right... Actually, let me put it this way: People who believe in absolute Predestination ought to apply this radical idea to every aspect of their theology, no?

Also, Ron, you said you have shown me before where I'm wrong. Honestly, I'm only 18 years old, so when I see some amount of truth in what someone says I explore, you however have shown no amount of truth thus, I have ceased from going about finding the truth from you.

Really Ron, can you not answer my questions? Do not simply show me a verse and tell me I'm wrong. Show me where I'm wrong, apply it logically, and I'll pray about it.

To all others who may be disgruntled at my questions:

What better thing to do than to attack people when they are unarmed? Some of the people here seem to believe in a purpose yet, they also believe that no matter what, God has already chosen who will enter the Kingdom of God and who will burn in an everlasting fire. Hey, that's great and all, but I want to see them apply this radical idea to every part of their theology. Sorry if it seems that I am hijacking this thread. I actually think it's a great thread because, as you can see, people of different denominations are answering the question. But, what I find funny is, some can answer this question without considering what else they believe. How do the two not contradict? Speaking of course of absolute Predestination and the purpose of the Church, or anything else really.

I really like Todd's answer because it conforms his belief in the Church with his belief in absolute Predestination. Good job Todd! :thumbsup:

Yet, how contradictory is it that the purpose of the Church would be to reach out to the "elect" when Christ says to reach out to all! Every creature should be preached to with the Gospel of Christ.

...I have to go now, I'm getting a new car ;). I'll finish this later.

[Phileoeklogos]

Ron,

I'm not trying to hijack another thread, I'm simply trying get people's theology right... Actually, let me put it this way: People who believe in absolute Predestination ought to apply this radical idea to every aspect of their theology, no?

Also, Ron, you said you have shown me before where I'm wrong. Honestly, I'm only 18 years old, so when I see some amount of truth in what someone says I explore, you however have shown no amount of truth thus, I have ceased from going about finding the truth from you.

Really Ron, can you not answer my questions? Do not simply show me a verse and tell me I'm wrong. Show me where I'm wrong, apply it logically, and I'll pray about it.

To all others who may be disgruntled at my questions:

What better thing to do than to attack people when they are unarmed? Some of the people here seem to believe in a purpose yet, they also believe that no matter what, God has already chosen who will enter the Kingdom of God and who will burn in an everlasting fire. Hey, that's great and all, but I want to see them apply this radical idea to every part of their theology. Sorry if it seems that I am hijacking this thread. I actually think it's a great thread because, as you can see, people of different denominations are answering the question. But, what I find funny is, some can answer this question without considering what else they believe. How do the two not contradict? Speaking of course of absolute Predestination and the purpose of the Church, or anything else really.

I really like Todd's answer because it conforms his belief in the Church with his belief in absolute Predestination. Good job Todd! :thumbsup:

Yet, how contradictory is it that the purpose of the Church would be to reach out to the "elect" when Christ says to reach out to all! Every creature should be preached to with the Gospel of Christ.

...I have to go now, I'm getting a new car ;). I'll finish this later.




Before you get our theology right you may want to examine your prescient view, apply some critical thinking and discover why you keep contradicting your own view, after that take some time to examine our view, find out what it is, make sure you understand what it really is, because it is obvious that you do not understand it, strawman arguements refute nothing.

[MikeMcK]

You are so right on this thread. The church is to be a place where we come together and build each other up and learn how to reach people outside the church. The last thing Jesus told Christians to do was tell the world.
People in my old church will say they don't know what to say to people. You tell people what Jesus has done for you, and what you have because of His sacrifice.
I've heard numbers that only about 2% to 10% of so called Christians witness to people. In John 15 its says if we do not produce fruit we will be cut off and thrown in the lake of fire.
Your right people don't want to hear the truth in church they want their ears tickled.

God Bless

A lot of you know the story behind my church. We broke off from another church last year because we didn't feel we could Biblically justify some of the things they were doing.

It had become little more than a social club with the pastor nothing more than a motivational speaker, trying to convince the unsaved that Christianity is just a better philosophy than whatever they're following.

All of this started because they wanted to get more unsaved people in the doors.

Now, there's nothing at all wrong with the lost coming to a church service or even being invited to a church service by a Christian. In fact, Paul tells us in his second letter to the Corinthians that we should welcome them when they come so that they might hear God's word preached and be convicted.

I have no doubt that the folks at the old church had nothing but the best intentions, but they way they went about it was Unbiblical and the church paid the price for it.

They got so caught up in making church an inviting place for the unsaved, they neglected to see that the church was fulfilling God's purposes for it. They ended up being a lot more influenced by the world than the world was influenced by the church.

Rather than being a place where the unsaved could hear God's word preached and be convicted, it became a place where they could come and listen to a rock band and be told how to "appropriate the promises of God" to live a better life.

If you're unsaved, then God only makes one promise to you and that is that you're going to stand in His courts and be tried for your sins.

But of course, they were never told this. I still can't help but wonder how many unsaved people God sent to this church, who are going to end up in Hell because they didn't preach the Gospel when they had the opportunity.

When we founded the new church, we made three committments:

1. An open door policy where any member can approach any of us in the leadership with questions or concerns about the doctrines or practices of the church and our promise that we will take those concerns seriously.

2. Accountability and transparency. We are accountable one to another and that includes the leadership. And we also make it clear that the Bible says that we're held to a higher level of accountability and ask the church to hold our feet to the fire when necessary.

3. ((And most important to this thread)) We have made a committment that no one will ever leave our church without hearing the Gospel. Man is a sinner in need of a Savior and God has provided that Savior in the person and atoning work of Jesus Christ.

If we end up sharing the Gospel with those who've already received it, that's fine. Our philosophy is that it's better to preach the Gospel to a man who's already saved than to not preach the Gospel to a man who faces an eternity in Hell.

[JPPT1974]

It is about getting out of our comfort zone
And preaching and helping non-believers hoping
That they can convert even if we are ridiculed
But remember, that is what Jesus would do.

[edb19]

Though we do help the poor we are not a welfare agency. Though we proclaim the whole council of God we are not a counseling center. Though we may affect politics we are not a political organization.

A big AMEN to this (especially the not being a political organization):thumbsup::amen::thumbsup:

edie

[Hagios17]

Mmmm... an interestingly interesting thread. Shall be on it ASAP, during the holidays or sooner

[TwistTim]

I am glad to see this thread, after my comments on the PDL thread apearantly(sp) sparked this.

I believe as many of you have said, the Church is for the believers, not the seekers, that Christians should go out and preach, and yes the gospel should be preached in church because a stranger may wander in, but don't ever water down the message for the believers, or make it seeker sensitive...

things like a potty evangelism room or playing sick games for youth, or coffee from starbucks for the college aged folks are all wrong, wrong wrong....

I wish I was making those up.... I'm not.....

http://www.oldtruth.com/blog.cfm/id.2.pid.626 <--- the potty driven Church

http://www.funattic.com/game_youthgroup.htm <--- sick youth games, and not so sick ones, also suggestive ones

http://www.gpch.org/College/ <--- a Church that sends starbucks gift cards to College members that register for it....

The Bible calls the Church "The Assembling Together of Yourselves" Hebrews 10:12 (who is yourselves? believers)


And the New Testament church in Acts met to grow together in Christ, in doctrine, fellowship, communion, and added to themselves (i read that as something that happened because they were faithful)


ACTS 2:42-47 KJV


42And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. 43And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
44And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
45And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
46And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
47Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

[holyrokker]

Ephesians 4:11 - 13 "It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ."

Acts 2:42 "They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer."

Hebrews 3:12-13 "See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness."

Hebrews 10:24-25 "And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching."

I think these basically summarize the purpose of "church" - a gathering together to encourage one another, to become mature.

[Hagios17]

2 Timothy 2:24-26 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

[Hagios17]

Time and time again, God has stressed throughout the Holy scriptures what he really wants us to do is to proclaim the Gospel in godliness and singleness of mind. Preach the Gospel. Simple. This should be a believer's top priority, to give an account of the message of truth. Comforting, exhorting eachother in Christ, etc. that is also a priority, but it is not the top one. God wants us to go out into all the world preaching the message of his blood, in meekness... peace and grace.

[TwistTim]

That is that we go out there and preach the gospel to all creatures, hagios17, not let them all wander in to the church, it should be a function of the church to equip the saints for sharing the faith, but it should not be the be all, end all function.... seeker sensative is making a church friendly to outsiders by sacking the truth of scriptures. That is just wrong.

[Hagios17]

I never said a Christian's only priority is to proclaim the Gospel, I said it was the most important. And as for the church equipping us with the ability to preach, that is not true. We are equipped by the Word and Spirit. I am not sacking the truth here. Rick Warren's movement is, which is a cult, this relationship obsession sickens me. That is what saps truth. And emergent church... all that movement is about is foreign spirituality and relative truth... i.e. we all are right and are going to try and work together with all our premises to reach Christ. These foolish programs and vain philosophies, they sap truth. And men devise these foolish things because they are worldly and don't like the Spirit of God. A christian must not be so dependant on a Church. We bear one anothers burdens and share in on the Glory but God is our "Counsiler". God asks and chides us, come to me. We go to eachother, and do profit indeed, but what Christ wants is for us to come to him together and understand that Christ is who we seek and gain from.

[Hagios17]

We are so bussy and so programmed. Instead of going to God for help, we get the second best or even third or fifteenth best. Man... go to God!

Jesus didn't die so that you could depend on humans he died so that you could depend on him. This is not to say that we forsake fellowship, etc. its just a form of rebuke to those that over proportionalise church. Jesus is our Saviour, not Rick Warren or Jack Sprat.

[Hagios17]

Grace, peace, love, faith dont come from the church, they come from Christ. Understand how important Jesus is, and how small we tend to make him with our stupid programs. All these movements are a wearing to the bones. We need to encourage young believers in reading God's word, and praying to Jesus by the Spirit, teaching and instructing in meekness. The words of the fourrty fifth person are by no means more essential than the words of Christ. We, as a body, even though bearing one another's burdens and being peacable and kind, exhorting, we make sure Jesus is rightfully exalted.

[jsimms615]

Piggybacking on the thread which focusses on the PDL book by Rick Warren, I wanted to get others thoughts on why and what we come to church for. What is our "Purpose" since Mr. Warren so greatly wants us to discover that?

Well, if we go to the book of Acts we would find the believers coming together for fellowship and teaching together, AS believers. In fact Paul strongly chastised both the Corinthian church, and the audience of Hebrews for not being able to deal with, or not dealing with the deeper things. They were still on elementary issues and that was seen as bad.

In the Bible, in the NT church, in Acts, the people WENT out evangelizing. We are sent OUT into the world. Evangelising has nothing to do with making an unbeliever feel like he enjoys the Sunday service, and in fact if he does, then something is probably wrong. We are told that the Gospel is a stumbling block, and an affront to the world.

Now I'm not talking about music - I love Praise and Worship music. But the general forms of preaching and services have been altered to try and make lost people comfortable in church, sermons have been dumbed down, the whole Gospel doesn't get preached anylonger.

It's a sad day. I long for the church to be the church, and stop trying to befriend the world.
I agree that the whole Word does not get preached anymore. Many pastors are too afraid of offending the wrong people. Still others have become burned out and don't have their heart in it anymore. But, at the same time, I see a lot of people who go to a church,but during the week don't act like it.
I think we as the church still have a purpose to share Christ, disciple others, worship and care for each other

[holyrokker]

I agree that the whole Word does not get preached anymore. Many pastors are too afraid of offending the wrong people. Still others have become burned out and don't have their heart in it anymore. But, at the same time, I see a lot of people who go to a church,but during the week don't act like it.
I think we as the church still have a purpose to share Christ, disciple others, worship and care for each other

To add on to what you said:
It seems like a lot of people think it is the job of the pastor to "preach the Word. Doesn't that apply to more than the pastor?

Also: 2 Timothy 4:3 says, "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."

It isn't that "the whole Word" isn't being preached. It's that people refuse to hear the Word, and seek out false doctrine.

[DeaconDean]

Doesn't that apply to more than the pastor?

Yes it does. Are we not taught:

"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:" -1 Pet. 3:15 (KJV)

God Bless

Till all are one.

[NeedingPrayersDaily]

Well, I can say that I think above all else, the church must be a good example. Being a light to the world will work better in a community and world than any attempts at evangelism or outreach ministry ever will. For what good are those things if the group behind them is less than desirable.

That would be the best thing for the church to do, IMHO

IF anyone knows of a place like this, too, then let me know because I am about through looking.

[Hagios17]

Its everyone who is in Christ's duty to preach the word. Don't be ashamed or affraid. Just as we are to come to the throne of grace with boldness, so must we preach the Gospel. Not in wisdom of man's words but in the power of the holy spirit.

We come bringing a message. Some say this is a message that promotes relationship, others a concept of relativism such as in the emergent church, others that salvation is a work of man (Romish teaching), but beyond all of our folly there is only one message we come preaching and that is the message of Christ and his shed blood. Anything else, anything else you think is our purpose in this world, I think is folly. We are the salt... don't loose your flavour.