About Rick Warren

[ConservativeChristian97]

I got this in an e-mail this morning and it really uplifted me a good bit to see how this family is serving God. Now, I'm still on the fence with all I've read about him and I don't agree with The Purpose Driven Church as I believe the only books that belong in church are the Bible and the hymnal. I just felt I should share this as it may help someone else, too.

About Rick Warren (REMEMBER HE WROTE-The PURPOSE DRIVEN LIFE)

You will enjoy the new insights that Rick Warren has, with his wife now having cancer and him having "wealth" from the book sales. This is an absolutely incredible short interview with Rick Warren, "Purpose Driven Life " author and pastor of Saddleback Church in California.

In the interview by Paul Bradshaw with Rick Warren, Rick said: People ask me, What is the purpose of life? And I respond: In a nutshell, life is preparation for eternity. We were made to last forever, and God wants us to be with Him in Heaven.

One day my heart is going to stop, and that will be the end of my body-- but not the end of me. I may live 60 to 100 years on earth, but I am going to spend trillions of years in eternity. This is the warm-up act; the dress rehearsal. God wants us to practice on earth what we will do forever in eternity.

We were made by God and for God, and until you figure that out, life isn't going to make sense.

Life is a series of problems: Either you are in one now, you're just coming out of one, or you're getting ready to go into another one. The reason for this is that God is more interested in your character than your comfort. God is more interested in making your life holy than He is in making your life happy. We can be reasonably happy here on earth, but that's not the goal of life. The goal is to grow in character, in Christ likeness.

This past year has been the greatest year of my life but also the toughest, with my wife, Kay, getting cancer. I used to think that life was hills and valleys - you go through a dark time, then you go to the mountaintop, back and forth. I don't believe that anymore.

Rather than life being hills and valleys, I believe that it's kind of like two rails on a railroad track, and at all times you have something good and something bad in your life.
No matter how good things are in your life, there is always something bad that needs to be worked on. And no matter how bad things are in your life, there is always some thing good you can thank God for. You can focus on your purposes, or you can focus on your problems.

If you focus on your problems, you're going into self-centeredness, "which is my problem, my issues, my pain." But one of the easiest ways to get rid of pain is to get your focus off yourself and onto God and others.

We discovered quickly that in spite of the prayers of hundreds of thousands of people, God was not going to heal Kay or make it easy for her. It has been very difficult for her, and yet God has strengthened her character, given her a ministry of helping other people, given her a testimony, drawn her closer to Him and to people. You have to learn to deal with both the good and the bad of life.

Actually, sometimes learning to deal with the good is harder. For instance, this past year, all of a sudden, when the book sold 15 million copies, it made me instantly very wealthy . It also brought a lot of notoriety that I had never had to deal with before. I don't think God gives you money or notoriety for your own ego or for you to live a life of ease. So I began to ask God what He wanted me to do with this money, notoriety and influence. He gave me two different passages that helped me decide what to do, II Corinthians 9 and Psalm 72.

First, in spite of all the money coming in, we would not change our lifestyle one bit. We made no major purchases. Second, about midway through last year, I stopped taking a salary from the church. Third, we set up foundations to fund an initiative we call The Peace Plan to plant churches, equip leaders, assist the poor, care for the sick, and educate the next generation. Fourth, I added up all that the church had paid me in the 24 years since I started the church, and I gave it all back. It was liberating to be able to serve God for free.

We need to ask ourselves: Am I going to live for possessions? Popularity? Am I going to be driven by pressures? Guilt? Bitterness? Materialism? Or am I going to be driven by God's purposes (for my life)?

When I get up in the morning, I sit on the side of my bed and say, God, if I don't get anything else done today, I want to know You more and love You better. God didn't put me on earth just to fulfill a to-do list. He's more interested in what I am than what I do. That's why we're called human beings, not human doings.

Happy moments, PRAISE GOD. Difficult moments, SEEK GOD. Quiet moments, WORSHIP GOD. Painful, moments, TRUST GOD. Every moment, THANK GOD.

This is beautiful and food for the soul. A friend sent it to me, and I would like to share it with you.

[fireman1173005]

Thanks for the post, Rick Warren always writes great stuff. As for the purpose driven church I would like to ask you what you don't like about it. I have read it and don't remember anything about it replacing the Bible or hymnal or even being used in church except for the principles in the book that can be applied. Just wanted your point of view if you don't mind.

Thanks,
Brian

[JimfromOhio]

I believe Rick Warren inspires carnal Christians to change their lives and turned many to Christ through his books. However, he is not my main source of author who I would read for biblical edification.

[KarrieTex]

I got this in an e-mail this morning and it really uplifted me a good bit to see how this family is serving God. Now, I'm still on the fence with all I've read about him and I don't agree with The Purpose Driven Church as I believe the only books that belong in church are the Bible and the hymnal. I just felt I should share this as it may help someone else, too.

About Rick Warren (REMEMBER HE WROTE-The PURPOSE DRIVEN LIFE)

You will enjoy the new insights that Rick Warren has, with his wife now having cancer and him having "wealth" from the book sales. This is an absolutely incredible short interview with Rick Warren, "Purpose Driven Life " author and pastor of Saddleback Church in California.

In the interview by Paul Bradshaw with Rick Warren, Rick said: People ask me, What is the purpose of life? And I respond: In a nutshell, life is preparation for eternity. We were made to last forever, and God wants us to be with Him in Heaven.

One day my heart is going to stop, and that will be the end of my body-- but not the end of me. I may live 60 to 100 years on earth, but I am going to spend trillions of years in eternity. This is the warm-up act; the dress rehearsal. God wants us to practice on earth what we will do forever in eternity.

We were made by God and for God, and until you figure that out, life isn't going to make sense.

Life is a series of problems: Either you are in one now, you're just coming out of one, or you're getting ready to go into another one. The reason for this is that God is more interested in your character than your comfort. God is more interested in making your life holy than He is in making your life happy. We can be reasonably happy here on earth, but that's not the goal of life. The goal is to grow in character, in Christ likeness.

This past year has been the greatest year of my life but also the toughest, with my wife, Kay, getting cancer. I used to think that life was hills and valleys - you go through a dark time, then you go to the mountaintop, back and forth. I don't believe that anymore.

Rather than life being hills and valleys, I believe that it's kind of like two rails on a railroad track, and at all times you have something good and something bad in your life.
No matter how good things are in your life, there is always something bad that needs to be worked on. And no matter how bad things are in your life, there is always some thing good you can thank God for. You can focus on your purposes, or you can focus on your problems.

If you focus on your problems, you're going into self-centeredness, "which is my problem, my issues, my pain." But one of the easiest ways to get rid of pain is to get your focus off yourself and onto God and others.

We discovered quickly that in spite of the prayers of hundreds of thousands of people, God was not going to heal Kay or make it easy for her. It has been very difficult for her, and yet God has strengthened her character, given her a ministry of helping other people, given her a testimony, drawn her closer to Him and to people. You have to learn to deal with both the good and the bad of life.

Actually, sometimes learning to deal with the good is harder. For instance, this past year, all of a sudden, when the book sold 15 million copies, it made me instantly very wealthy . It also brought a lot of notoriety that I had never had to deal with before. I don't think God gives you money or notoriety for your own ego or for you to live a life of ease. So I began to ask God what He wanted me to do with this money, notoriety and influence. He gave me two different passages that helped me decide what to do, II Corinthians 9 and Psalm 72.

First, in spite of all the money coming in, we would not change our lifestyle one bit. We made no major purchases. Second, about midway through last year, I stopped taking a salary from the church. Third, we set up foundations to fund an initiative we call The Peace Plan to plant churches, equip leaders, assist the poor, care for the sick, and educate the next generation. Fourth, I added up all that the church had paid me in the 24 years since I started the church, and I gave it all back. It was liberating to be able to serve God for free.

We need to ask ourselves: Am I going to live for possessions? Popularity? Am I going to be driven by pressures? Guilt? Bitterness? Materialism? Or am I going to be driven by God's purposes (for my life)?

When I get up in the morning, I sit on the side of my bed and say, God, if I don't get anything else done today, I want to know You more and love You better. God didn't put me on earth just to fulfill a to-do list. He's more interested in what I am than what I do. That's why we're called human beings, not human doings.

Happy moments, PRAISE GOD. Difficult moments, SEEK GOD. Quiet moments, WORSHIP GOD. Painful, moments, TRUST GOD. Every moment, THANK GOD.

This is beautiful and food for the soul. A friend sent it to me, and I would like to share it with you.
Have you read A Purpose Driven Life?

[ConservativeChristian97]

Thanks for the post, Rick Warren always writes great stuff. As for the purpose driven church I would like to ask you what you don't like about it. I have read it and don't remember anything about it replacing the Bible or hymnal or even being used in church except for the principles in the book that can be applied. Just wanted your point of view if you don't mind.

Thanks,
Brian
More or less it was my FIL (a former pastor) who did this and I figured if he's doing it then some other pastors are probably doing the same thing. It just sends up red flags for me.

I have read part of A Purpose Driven Life, not the whole thing because my dog ate it. lol I know that's gotta remind some of their time in high school (maybe even college ;) ), but he really did.

[fireman1173005]

The Purpose Driven Life is by far one of the best books I've read. The Purpose Driven Church was written primarily for pastors, not that anyone can't read it, but it tells a pastor how to impliment it. I have also read several sermons by Pastor Rick and I have been very impressed with him and his writtings. I am also thinking about going to a Seminary for my masters called Rockbridge Seminary that is based on the Purpose Driven Church concept.

Brian

[KarrieTex]

A Purpose Driven Life was a GREAT study. For me it was no different than any other bibical study...save for the fact it was communicated in an inspiring way.

There was nothing in the book that was not Bibical.

As for not having truly read it then how can you pass judgement?

[FallingWaters]

...this past year, all of a sudden, when the book sold 15 million copies, it made me instantly very wealthy. ...So I began to ask God what He wanted me to do with this money, notoriety and influence. He gave me two different passages that helped me decide what to do, II Corinthians 9 and Psalm 72.
...
Fourth, I added up all that the church had paid me in the 24 years since I started the church, and I gave it all back. It was liberating to be able to serve God for free.
I have heard snippets of Rick Warren over the past several years.
I always felt his message way extremely watered-down,
and more attractive to worldly thinking people.
I didn't really respect his message.

But the fact that he has given back his salary of the last 24 years
improves my opinion of him.

[Iosias]

Thanks for the post, Rick Warren always writes great stuff.

I cannot think of one good book he has written!

[ConservativeChristian97]

A Purpose Driven Life was a GREAT study. For me it was no different than any other bibical study...save for the fact it was communicated in an inspiring way.

There was nothing in the book that was not Bibical.

As for not having truly read it then how can you pass judgement?
How did I pass judgement on it? I said read about him and not read by him. I believe you are trying to stir up things a bit.

[KarrieTex]

How did I pass judgement on it? I said read about him and not read by him. I believe you are trying to stir up things a bit.
I have read part of A Purpose Driven Life, not the whole thing because my dog ate it.

You said you read PART of it not the entire book.

I don't agree with The Purpose Driven Church

And here you say you are not in agreement with RW.

Putting 2 and 2 together, I surmised that due to not reading the book you passed a judgement on it. Thus my question is and was how can you pass judgement on a PDL without reading it?

As for believing I am stiring things up, it is a free country and you can believe whatever you want. No matter if you are completely off base.

[TheCosmicGospel]

RW is not that bad if you are going to fall for something. Might as well be PDL.

You could have gone with:

1) Al Gore and the planet is melting.

2) Michael Moore rants.

3) G*y marriage.

4) Why not elect a female as president, nothing else has worked.

5) Dogs and trees have rights too.

Cheers,
Cosmic

[LittleladyinChrist]

The following is excerpted from the blog Full Court Press Against Modernism and is entitled Megachurch Pastor Accuses Some Congregation Members of Being Duped, January 29, 2007. It was prepared with the assistance of research by the Southwest Radio Church of Bethany, Oklahoma: In the past ten years a lot of churches in America and in other countries have changed from a traditional New Testament church model to a contemporary Purpose Driven model, most with sorrowful pitiful results. Thousands of churches have split, closed, or had significant reductions in attendance. Most churches, after having a brief upsurge in growth, either reverted back to their original size or suffered church trauma by introducing the PDC model in their congregation. It is important that EVERY church member know if their church is targeted for a PURPOSE DRIVEN CHURCH (PDC) takeover. Initially a small clique of church staff including the pastor plans the change without telling the rest of the church membership. Church Transitions (a PDC training arm) trains the clique initiating the change in eight steps. The church is not to be informed of the transitions until the fourth step. After the sixth step if there are some members in the church who voice concerns the following is suggested: #1- Identify those who are resisting the changes. #2- Assess the effectiveness of their opposition. #3- Befriend those who are undecided about changes. #4- Marginalize more persistent resisters or questioners. #5- Vilify those who stay and fight. #6- Establish new rules that will silence all resistance. Then the members either accept the changes or leave the church. Rick Warren, author and director of the PDC movement, says, When you reveal the vision to the church the old pillars are going to leave. But let them leave ... they only hold things up. So what are the signs that your church is targeted for a PDC change? #1- Change in music to a contemporary rock style. #2- Removal of hymn books...often words on a screen. #3- Eliminating the choir or introducing a choral entertainment type singing group. Repetitive praise lyrics are used. #4- Replacing the organ/piano with rock music type instruments. #5- Dressing down to casual informal attire. #8- A repetitive 40 day PDC study program stressing psychological relationships with each other, the community and the world. #10- Sunday morning, evening, and/or Wednesday prayer meetings are changed to other times, named differently or eliminated. #14- New versions of the Bible are used. #16- The decor may be changed to eliminate any resemblance to the former church. #17- The name church is often removed and may be called a campus. Denominational names are often removed. #18- An emphasis on more fun and party times for the youth. #19- Elimination of altar calls or salvation invitations. #20- The elimination of such words as unsaved, lost, hell, and sodomy. #21- Reclassification of the saved and lost to thechurched and unchurched #22- The marginalizing or ostracizing of all who are not avid promoters of the new PDC program.

[ConservativeChristian97]

I have read part of A Purpose Driven Life, not the whole thing because my dog ate it.

You said you read PART of it not the entire book.

I don't agree with The Purpose Driven Church

And here you say you are not in agreement with RW.

Putting 2 and 2 together, I surmised that due to not reading the book you passed a judgement on it. Thus my question is and was how can you pass judgement on a PDL without reading it?

As for believing I am stiring things up, it is a free country and you can believe whatever you want. No matter if you are completely off base.

See, I disagreed with The Purpose Driven Church, not The Purpose Driven Life. Also, I said in my OP that I wasn't sure I agreed with him as a person, not with his writings. Honestly, I didn't pick up a new copy because of some things I had read about his personal life, after reading this article I realize I may have been wrong. If you would like to discuss it further please PM me as I feel its getting blown a bit out of proportion here.

God bless you,
Dawn

[BereanTodd]

PDL is a below average book that takes a great number of verses completely out of context and often relys upon extremely loose/poor translations of passages in order to get them to say things they are not saying. That does not say that no good comes from the book, but sadly it is an example of post-modernism creeping into the church.

PDC is a slightly better book which does have some good ideas and principles, though one must absolutely pick the meat from the bones.

I have served on staff at a PDC, I have seen these seeker friendly churches from the inside, and I have a big issue with them. Again, like I said above, I do not discount the good that they do, but they water down the preaching, the discipleship is very poor, they promote terrible translations, take verses WAY out of context, do not preach the full council of God, and have many more issues to boot.

Do they do some good? Sure, they are reaching some unchurched folks - though the question must be asked reaching them with what? - They also promote good works in the community, which is good.

But Rick Warren is more of a symptom of a problem within the church in my mind, than he is the answer to one.

[KarrieTex]

PDL is a below average book that takes a great number of verses completely out of context and often relys upon extremely loose/poor translations of passages in order to get them to say things they are not saying. That does not say that no good comes from the book, but sadly it is an example of post-modernism creeping into the church.

PDC is a slightly better book which does have some good ideas and principles, though one must absolutely pick the meat from the bones.

I have served on staff at a PDC, I have seen these seeker friendly churches from the inside, and I have a big issue with them. Again, like I said above, I do not discount the good that they do, but they water down the preaching, the discipleship is very poor, they promote terrible translations, take verses WAY out of context, do not preach the full council of God, and have many more issues to boot.

Do they do some good? Sure, they are reaching some unchurched folks - though the question must be asked reaching them with what? - They also promote good works in the community, which is good.

But Rick Warren is more of a symptom of a problem within the church in my mind, than he is the answer to one.
I completely disagree with you about PDL. I have read it several times and taught it a few times and it is not a watered down out of context book.

[BereanTodd]

I completely disagree with you about PDL. I have read it several times and taught it a few times and it is not a watered down out of context book.


No offense, but that shows that you lack some Bible study skills. The principles he teaches are mostly biblical, but he constanty:

a. takes passages out of context and makes them say things they do not say, and ...
b. resorts to extremely loose versions in order to get a verse to say something it is not really saying.

Here is an extremely fair and even-handed review of the book I challenge you to read. My thoughts on the book are much harsher than this reviewer, but he points out some issues in it:

http://www.hixson.org/docs/Review%20of%20The%20Purpose%20Drive%20Life.pdf

[Rep Daddy]

GARAGE SALE ANALOGY

When I go to a garage sale, I have no intention of bringing home everything I see and put it in my home. In fact, if I find one or two useful items I consider it a sucessful day.

The PDL & the ANALOGY

I did not expect to read PDL and make it my Life Counselor. Like a garage sale, I was looking for items and ideas that I believe can be profitable while maintaining my own biblical convictions.

And with that view, reading it was worth my time and dime.

Steve

[BereanTodd]

The PDL & the ANALOGY

I did not expect to read PDL and make it my Life Counselor. Like a garage sale, I was looking for items and ideas that I believe can be profitable while maintaining my own biblical convictions.

And with that view, reading it was worth my time and dime.

Steve

The problem is that it promotes an extremely post-modern view of Bible study, and post-modernism is inherantly anti-Christian world view. We need to reach the post-modern world around us. but without adopting post-modern reasoning and thinking and study.

The above is just in reference to PDL, if you wanted to get into PDC and PDC-model churches the problems would go far beyond that ...

[Rep Daddy]

The problem is that it promotes an extremely post-modern view of Bible study, and post-modernism is inherantly anti-Christian world view. We need to reach the post-modern world around us. but without adopting post-modern reasoning and thinking and study.

The above is just in reference to PDL, if you wanted to get into PDC and PDC-model churches the problems would go far beyond that ...

I do not see how your point invalidates my post and response to PDL (ditto for PDC). And as a geezer I certainly am no post-modern type although I am a pastor on a major university campus and interact with post-modern thought and disciples regularly.

[BereanTodd]

I do not see how your point invalidates my post and response to PDL (ditto for PDC). And as a geezer I certainly am no post-modern type although I am a pastor on a major university campus and interact with post-modern thought and disciples regularly.

My point is that while the principles in the book are mostly Biblical, a great many, if not a majority of the verses are ripped out of context or made to say things that they don't in order to support his theories and based on that I don't think it is a good book in any way, shape of fashion.

A parralell would be for instance I am a dispensationalist but I can find a lot of good in the writtings of many covenental theologians, I just must pick the meat from the bones. But when someone shows no care for the Scriptures at all as does Warren ... that is someone I think it best to avoid altogether.

[KarrieTex]

No offense, but that shows that you lack some Bible study skills. The principles he teaches are mostly biblical, but he constanty:

a. takes passages out of context and makes them say things they do not say, and ...
b. resorts to extremely loose versions in order to get a verse to say something it is not really saying.

Here is an extremely fair and even-handed review of the book I challenge you to read. My thoughts on the book are much harsher than this reviewer, but he points out some issues in it:

http://www.hixson.org/docs/Review%20of%20The%20Purpose%20Drive%20Life.pdf
No offense? Excuse me who are you to decide on my knowledge. Pompous I would say.

No, it means I don't agree with you rather narrow minded synopsis of PDL.

Oh and YOUR view is not the end all point about bibical study or thought. Your arrogance is rather open in it's contempt.

[KarrieTex]

My point is that while the principles in the book are mostly Biblical, a great many, if not a majority of the verses are ripped out of context or made to say things that they don't in order to support his theories and based on that I don't think it is a good book in any way, shape of fashion.

A parralell would be for instance I am a dispensationalist but I can find a lot of good in the writtings of many covenental theologians, I just must pick the meat from the bones. But when someone shows no care for the Scriptures at all as does Warren ... that is someone I think it best to avoid altogether.
Getting tired of this.

Prove it.

[fireman1173005]

I have heard snippets of Rick Warren over the past several years.
I always felt his message way extremely watered-down,
and more attractive to worldly thinking people.
I didn't really respect his message.



Well the Purpose Driven Life was written for Christians as well as non-Christians. As for his sermons, most of them are written for his "seeker services" in which members invite their lost friends. There is no need for any preacher to talk over the congregations heads. If you can't understand what he is talking about, then what good is it doing you. Just my opinion.

Brian

[TwistTim]

There is nothing wrong with adding some praise music to a worship service, after all hymns at one time were new.... now removing all hymns in favor of praise music would be wrong.

A church should never be "seeker sensetive" and I don't care if the Potty Driven Church book says otherwise (There is a church that has an evangelic men's room)... The Bible says that We are not to Forsake the Assembling Together of Ourselves(Meaning Believers... there is nothing that says the Church is for winning converts, that's what Christians are for, they are to go out.... to Jersualem, Judea, Samria and the Ends of the World.... or to a non-Jew "Share your Faith with Your Home Town(and your family), Your Neighbors, Your Enemies, and everybody else"

As for driving people out, that's Roman Catholic, not Biblical...

So if that's what the PDC is about, then I don't want anything to do with it.

[FallingWaters]

The Bible says that We are not to Forsake the Assembling Together of Ourselves(Meaning Believers... there is nothing that says the Church is for winning converts, that's what Christians are for, they are to go out.... to Jersualem, Judea, Samria and the Ends of the World.... or to a non-Jew "Share your Faith with Your Home Town(and your family), Your Neighbors, Your Enemies, and everybody else"And that's exactly the point.
The Church is a body of believers.
The American pastor has been given the job of evangelizing
because the rest of us are too lazy or too chicken.

[BereanTodd]

Getting tired of this.

Prove it.

I allready provided a link, did you bother to read it. The well respected theologian at that link is much kinder to Warren than I am, but shows clearly some of the examples.

[BereanTodd]

Oh and YOUR view is not the end all point about bibical study or thought. Your arrogance is rather open in it's contempt.

Sorry, but the Bible does NOT mean whatever you want it to mean. There is ONE meaning, ONE intent in the Bible. There may be many applications of that, but the Bible is NOT some post-modern doccument. Warren repeatedly rips verses OUT of their context.

[KarrieTex]

Sorry, but the Bible does NOT mean whatever you want it to mean. There is ONE meaning, ONE intent in the Bible. There may be many applications of that, but the Bible is NOT some post-modern doccument. Warren repeatedly rips verses OUT of their context.
In my experience I have yet to see that. So prove it. Show me an example. Give me the page number so I can find it quickly and read it and find my corresponding notes. I read it....but you are going by what ANOTHER person is saying. YOU prove it.

Again this is your view about what RW is doing.

[BereanTodd]

In my experience I have yet to see that. So prove it. Show me an example. Give me the page number so I can find it quickly and read it and find my corresponding notes. I read it....but you are going by what ANOTHER person is saying. YOU prove it.

Again this is your view about what RW is doing.

I provided a footboted link that includes at least a dozen such instances of him doing just that. It includes page numbers, look them up yourself.

[KarrieTex]

I provided a footboted link that includes at least a dozen such instances of him doing just that. It includes page numbers, look them up yourself.
dusting my shoes off

[BereanTodd]

Since looking at a link is apparantly too difficult for you Karrie, he misrepresents or twists aronud verses such as:

1 Cor 2:7 (pg 20), Ps 138:8 (p 22), Is 46:3-4 (p25), Jer 29:11 (p 31, 78), Matthew 25:34 (p 39), Isa 43:7 (p 55), Hosea 6:6 (p 70), Jer. 9:24 (p 87), Isa 8:17 (p 107), Malachi 3:10 (p. 243), Deut 14:23 (p 243), Luke 16:9 (p 302), Lamentations 3:40 (p 308).

In particular, he repeatedly interprets OT passages that apply directly to Israel or some specific OT figure as being directly applicable to believers today. He also fails to contextualize the Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24-25 in several citations.