Non-Gospel Songs

[Adriana]

Does your pastor prevent you from listening to non-gospel songs?

[mlqurgw]

Do your pastor prevent you from listening to non-gospel songs?
Music of all kinds is to be enjoyed, only be ccareful that you don't get caught up in worldliness through it.

BYW, I love Brazil. My son-in-law is from Brazil. I had the opportunity to visit there a few years ago and fell in love with the people there. My son-in-law's brother is a pastor in Sao Paulo. Sometime I may tell you the story of how I came to visit Brazil. It truly is a story of God's amazing grace. :wave:

[psalm511013]

Do your pastor prevent you from listening to non-gospel songs?But we should be careful to honor God no matter who is looking. If the music we listen to is the antithesis of God -- in other words, worldly in nature by its lyric content and perhaps even the character of the rhythm of the music -- it would be best if we voluntarily forego listening to it.

[arunma]

Do your pastor prevent you from listening to non-gospel songs?

No...why would any pastor do that? Such a person sounds more like a tyrant than a minister of God to me.

By choice I don't personally listen to any secular music. Not that I'm against secular music, I just don't enjoy it. But any church which controls its congregants choice of music would likely have some serious issues.

[MrJim]

No...why would any pastor do that? Such a person sounds more like a tyrant than a minister of God to me.

By choice I don't personally listen to any secular music. Not that I'm against secular music, I just don't enjoy it. But any church which controls its congregants choice of music would likely have some serious issues.

Nothing wrong with a pastor or leadership board making strong recommendations against particular music that's out there and forbidding particular kinds of music to be played in a service.

[arunma]

Nothing wrong with a pastor or leadership board making strong recommendations against particular music that's out there and forbidding particular kinds of music to be played in a service.

Of course. But I think she's referring to personal choice of music rather than the music used in corporate worship.

[MrJim]

Of course. But I think she's referring to personal choice of music rather than the music used in corporate worship.

Me too--that's what I meant about the strong recommendations. There's a lot of stuff out there kids shouldn't be listening to. A minister has a place to say if something is not good.

Unless a pastor is just a guy on Sunday that says generic religious platitudes and lets his flock meander about just sorta doing their best to avoid landmines.

A pastor should tackle other issues too-and say "don't go to this kind of movie" or "watch this kind of tv show"...I'd like to hear more of this kind of preaching myself--(maybe I wouldn't have gone to see "Ghost Rider" this weekend;) )

Yeah, if unchecked it can lead to legalism, but the antinomianism in the other direction is just as bad.

[Abbadon]

I actually had a preacher go through some of the lyrics of a few non-gospel song in church a few times... To explain the Christian meaning in the songs.

[rainbowpromises]

I actually had a preacher go through some of the lyrics of a few non-gospel song in church a few times... To explain the Christian meaning in the songs.
My grandpa tried to pull that one. It did not wash with me.
Music reflects a mood. When I listen to certain types of music I become aggitated, weepy or even tense.

In answer to the OP, I make my own choices as to the music I listen to.

[arunma]

Me too--that's what I meant about the strong recommendations. There's a lot of stuff out there kids shouldn't be listening to. A minister has a place to say if something is not good.

Unless a pastor is just a guy on Sunday that says generic religious platitudes and lets his flock meander about just sorta doing their best to avoid landmines.

A pastor should tackle other issues too-and say "don't go to this kind of movie" or "watch this kind of tv show"...I'd like to hear more of this kind of preaching myself--(maybe I wouldn't have gone to see "Ghost Rider" this weekend;) )

Yeah, if unchecked it can lead to legalism, but the antinomianism in the other direction is just as bad.

I see what you mean, and I agree. But I think the OP was referring to fundamentalist pastors who preach that all rock music (regardless of lyrics) is evil. It's the legalism that I'm referring to. But without doubt, antinomianism isn't any better. Christians do live by certain rules, and we ought not to compromise on these.

[mlqurgw]

I see what you mean, and I agree. But I think the OP was referring to fundamentalist pastors who preach that all rock music (regardless of lyrics) is evil. It's the legalism that I'm referring to. But without doubt, antinomianism isn't any better. Christians do live by certain rules, and we ought not to compromise on these.Which rules are those? Christians live by faith and walk in love for Christ and one another. Love is a much better motivator than law.

[arunma]

Which rules are those? Christians live by faith and walk in love for Christ and one another. Love is a much better motivator than law.

Yes I agree, which is why I use the term "rules" rather than laws. What I mean to say is that while there are certain issues on which Christians are governed by conscience (for example, the meat-eating issue in the Biblical church at Rome), there are also specific instructions that God has given us. As we can see, the Bible speaks of keeping certain traditions:
Now I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I delivered them to you. (1 Corinthians 11:2)
For example, God has told us that he doesn't wish to be worshiped through idolatry. He has also told us that we should not commit acts of adultery, homosexuality, or fornication. These are instances of rules that God has given us to live by. But God has also given us the reason for these rules. They are not for our salvation or even our sanctification, but for our good, as it says:
And now, Israel, what does the LORD your God require of you, but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, to love him, to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, and to keep the commandments and statutes of the LORD, which I am commanding you today for your good? (Deuteronomy 10:12-13)
What I mean to say, somewhat crudely, is that though we are under grace and not the Law, it seems that God has given us an effective set of "no nos" as well. But I'm certainly open to correction if you think that this isn't an appropriate line of reasoning.

[mlqurgw]

Yes I agree, which is why I use the term "rules" rather than laws. What I mean to say is that while there are certain issues on which Christians are governed by conscience (for example, the meat-eating issue in the Biblical church at Rome), there are also specific instructions that God has given us. As we can see, the Bible speaks of keeping certain traditions:Now I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I delivered them to you. (1 Corinthians 11:2)

For example, God has told us that he doesn't wish to be worshiped through idolatry. He has also told us that we should not commit acts of adultery, homosexuality, or fornication. These are instances of rules that God has given us to live by. But God has also given us the reason for these rules. They are not for our salvation or even our sanctification, but for our good, as it says:And now, Israel, what does the LORD your God require of you, but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, to love him, to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, and to keep the commandments and statutes of the LORD, which I am commanding you today for your good? (Deuteronomy 10:12-13)
What I mean to say, somewhat crudely, is that though we are under grace and not the Law, it seems that God has given us an effective set of "no nos" as well. But I'm certainly open to correction if you think that this isn't an appropriate line of reasoning. This should probably be another thread but...
Speaking of rules and laws is a distinction without a difference. To give someone a rule to live by is the same as giving them a law. Both have a negative consequence. That doesn't mean we don't have any revelation of what is right and what is wrong. The difference is that giving a set of rules involves compulsion. It is designed to either keep from doing by a negative consequence or to coerce by a negative result. Love is altogether different. We know what is right by the precepts taught and do what is right not because we fear the consequence but because we long to please our Lord. Fear may motivate but it does so with resentment. Love is a much greater motivator in that it is pleasurable.

[mlqurgw]

Let me illustrate what I am saying:
I love my wife and desire to please her. Now she can write up a set of rules for me that I can obey and things will go well. But I will resent her because she has made me do things I really didn't want to do.
Now on the other hand she can tell me what pleases her and I can do those things because I want to please her. I want to please her because I love her not because I have to for things to go well.
See the difference?

[arunma]

This should probably be another thread but...
Speaking of rules and laws is a distinction without a difference. To give someone a rule to live by is the same as giving them a law. Both have a negative consequence. That doesn't mean we don't have any revelation of what is right and what is wrong. The difference is that giving a set of rules involves compulsion. It is designed to either keep from doing by a negative consequence or to coerce by a negative result. Love is altogether different. We know what is right by the precepts taught and do what is right not because we fear the consequence but because we long to please our Lord. Fear may motivate but it does so with resentment. Love is a much greater motivator in that it is pleasurable.

I see your point completely. Thanks for explaining.

[MrJim]

Let me illustrate what I am saying:
I love my wife and desire to please her. Now she can write up a set of rules for me that I can obey and things will go well. But I will resent her because she has made me do things I really didn't want to do.
Now on the other hand she can tell me what pleases her and I can do those things because I want to please her. I want to please her because I love her not because I have to for things to go well.
See the difference?

...:scratch: looks like the problem in your example is more with you than your wife. If you resent you need to examine yourself instead of blaming your resentment on someone else. I know it's just an illustration, but following rules is something we all do all the time. Resentment needs to be examined in a person's heart instead of blaming someone else. I was pulled over by the police for speeding today (really I was). They have a rule posted that 25 mph is the limit through a certain section of town and even though I was less than 1/4 mile from the 40 mph sign he got me. Was I resentful for their rule? Shouldn't they allow love to lead in this? He let me off with a warning (bless his heart). But had he given me the ticket I had no one to blame but my self...those rules were set by the town and county--their standards.

And if a congregation decides to set standards then they are within their right to do so. I'm familiar with a number of mennonite congregations that do that sort of thing. Now the problem comes when they say that their standards are for everyone even outside of their congregation-then we have legalism. But if it's agreed upon by the congregation to dictate some standards then good for them. And if I don't want to be part of it I don't have to be.

This swings back to what I said earlier-antinomianism vs. legalism-it goes bad both ways and the path lies in the middle somewhere.

[mlqurgw]

...:scratch: looks like the problem in your example is more with you than your wife. If you resent you need to examine yourself instead of blaming your resentment on someone else. I know it's just an illustration, but following rules is something we all do all the time. Resentment needs to be examined in a person's heart instead of blaming someone else. I was pulled over by the police for speeding today (really I was). They have a rule posted that 25 mph is the limit through a certain section of town and even though I was less than 1/4 mile from the 40 mph sign he got me. Was I resentful for their rule? Shouldn't they allow love to lead in this? He let me off with a warning (bless his heart). But had he given me the ticket I had no one to blame but my self...those rules were set by the town and county--their standards.

And if a congregation decides to set standards then they are within their right to do so. I'm familiar with a number of mennonite congregations that do that sort of thing. Now the problem comes when they say that their standards are for everyone even outside of their congregation-then we have legalism. But if it's agreed upon by the congregation to dictate some standards then good for them. And if I don't want to be part of it I don't have to be.

This swings back to what I said earlier-antinomianism vs. legalism-it goes bad both ways and the path lies in the middle somewhere.
The part I bolded is my point. We are sinners even after we are saved and act like it. The only thing rules do is to bring guilt because you didn't keep them. More than that most who make rules don't keep them themselves. That was Paul's point to the Jews in Rom. 2:17-23. Rather than giving believers a set of rules to live by tell them about the Savior so they can more and more fall in love with Him. A person who truly loves will not need rules to know how to act in a pleasing manner. Nor will they need them to motivate them to it.

I have been called an antinomians many times before because of my stance on the Law. It bounces off. ;)

Edit: I just realized I didn't comment on your point about the laws that govern our land.
For the good of society in general laws are necessary. The fact that most men in society are not moral and will do whatever they can get away with requires that laws be made for the purpose of a deterrent and for the punishment of offences. Other wise we end up with anarchy and chaos. I am reminded of the closing words of Judges: every man did that which was right in his own eyes. Still the analogy doesn't apply to believers. We no longer need rules that demand obedience nor the threat of punishment to do what is right. We have both the Spirit of God directing us and the whole of Scripture to guide us. Of course that doesn't mean there is no standard. Christ is our standard not rules or law.

[onlinemissionary]

our youth pastor just tells us to watch out for secular (I'm a really bad speller so if that's wring my bad) music. And we have a chart in the back of the room that shows you what bands sound alot alike. We call it the SEC to Christian translator. It's a really neat tool. I'll see if I can find a post of it tonight at church.

[LittleladyinChrist]

http://www.av1611.org/ccm5.gif Amy Grant or Joni Mitchell?
Joni Mitchell, who is deeply involved in the satanic New-age, tells Time magazine of an intimate relationship with a male muse (a demon spirit) named Art, even roaming through the woods nude with Art! Time magazine, (December, 16, 1974, p.63) writes of Joni, "She deeply believes in a male muse named Art, who lends her his key to what she airly calls 'the shrine of creativity.' Her relationship with him is easily the most serious and enduring thing in her life. 'I feel like I'm married to this guy named Art,' she whispers. 'I'm responsible to my Art above all else.'" Joni Mitchell wrote the new-age theme "Woodstock" and has such blaspehmous songs as "God Must be a Boogie Man".

Certainly, there is a clear DIFFERENCE between "Christian" Amy Grant and "new-age" devotee Joni Mitchell. Question 1. Is the following "new-age environmental" lyrics from "Christian" Amy Grant's "House of Love" or "new-age" Joni Mitchell's "Ladies of the Canyon"? They took all the trees and put 'em in a tree museum
And then they charged all the poeple twenty-five bucks just to see 'em
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got till it's gone
They paved paradise and put up a parking lot

Hey farmer, farmer, put away your DDT now
Give me spots on my apples but leave me the birds and the bees, please
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got till it's gone
They paved paradise and put up a parking lot
YOUR ANSWER:
Amy Grant Joni Mitchell

Petra or KISS?
The group Kiss leaped on stage as rock'n roll demons — puking blood, breathing fire and screaming — "God of rock and roll, we'll rob you of your virgin soul!" There is no mistaking the "god" of KISS, a glance at the lyrics from "Unholy" on their album "Revenge" show their "god":
I am the incubus/ I lay the egg in you
The worm that burrows/ Through your brain
But you are the beast/ That calls me by my name
Unholy
I was created by man, yeah I'm the Lord of the flies,
you know I'm Unholy
From the left hand of power comes the father of lies
Unholy - Unholy!
Surely, there is a clear SEPARATION between "Christian" Petra and "satanic" KISS.
Question 2. Is the following lyrics from the "Christian" group Petra's album "Petra Means Rock" or satanic KISS's "Revenge" (along with the above "Unholy")? God gave rock and roll to you, gave rock and roll to you
Gave rock and roll to everyone
God gave rock and roll to you, gave rock and roll to you
Put it in the soul of everyone
YOUR ANSWER:
Petra KISS

Point of Grace or Earth, Wind and Fire?
There's no mistaking the new age/satanic influence of the group Earth, Wind and Fire. They blatantly flaunt occult symbolism, such as the all-seeing eye of Horus, zodiac signs, pyramids, hexagrams, the Egyptian ankh, and many more on their albums. To show the ultimate blasphemy, they even name one of their albums "I AM" -- a name reserved for God! The album "I AM" has a cross of Christ in the center with an embryo and an old man in the center with a temple in the foreground. Their song "Serpentine Fire" is based on the new age teachings found in Shah Kriza Yogi Meditation Cult.
There should be a clear SEPARATION between "Christian" Point of Grace and "new age/occultic" Earth, Wind and Fire.
Question 3. Is the following lyrics from the "Christian" group Point of Grace's album "Life, Love and Other Mysteries" or occultic Earth, Wind and Fire's "Gratitude" (along with "Sun Goddess")? If you sing a song a day
You will make a better way
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. . .
Sing a song
Sing a song. . .
YOUR ANSWER:
Point of Grace Earth, Wind and Fire

[LittleladyinChrist]

Jars of Clay or Ozzy Osbourne?
One of the most openly satanic rock stars, Ozzy Osbourne is known for outlandish acts such as biting the head off a bat. Ozzy says, "I don't know if I'm a medium for some outside force or not. Frankly, what ever it is I hope it's not what I think it is, Satan" (Hit Parader, Feb. 1978, p.24) Ozzy's song "Suicide Solution" has been linked to several teenage suicides, as Ozzy sings, "Suicide is the only way out."
Surely, there is a clear SEPARATION between "Christian" Jars of Clay and "satanic" Ozzy Osbourne.
Question 4. Did the "Christian" group Jars of Clay sing the following lyrics in their concerts or are the lyrics from Ozzy Osbourne's "Blizzard of Oz" album? Crazy, but that's how it goes. . .
I'm going off the rails on a crazy train
I've listened to preachers
I've listened to fools. . .
Crazy, I just cannot bear
I'm living with something that just isn't fair
Mental wounds not healing
Who and what's to blame
I'm going off the rails on a crazy train
YOUR ANSWER:
Jars of Clay Ozzy Osbourne

Rez Band or Jefferson Airplane?
To show her contempt for God, Jefferson Airplane (a.k.a. Jefferson Starship), singer Grace Slick named her illegitimate child "god". Jefferson Airplane's song "The Son of Jesus" spews their hatred and blasphemy of the Lord Jesus Christ, they sing, Jesus was involved in the occult, had illegitmate children by Mary Magdalene, and that God the Father was sexually attracted to Jesus' daughter.: Jesus could walk on the water, the man could dance on the sea of Galilee
But don't try breathing the water, miracles go only so far you see

So you think young Jesus Christ never a lady, and you think young Mary
Never saw him smile wide & free, You won't read it in the Bible but if you look you're liable
To come across the truth about the man from Galilee

The man upon the water, they had a son, they had a daughter she hid them
From the slaughter in the deep Black Sea
God loved the son of Jesus Ol' God got off on the spaklin' daughter too
Surely, there is a clear DIFFERENCE between "Christian" Rez Band (a.k.a Ressurection Band) and "blasphemous" Jefferson Airplane. Question 5. Is the following lyrics from the album "Civil Rites" by "Christian" Rez Band or "Surrealistic Pillow " by Jefferson Airplane? When the truth is found to be lies
And all the joys within you dies. . .
When the garden flowers baby are dead
And your mind is full of red. . .
Your eyes, I say your eyes may look like his
But in your head baby I'm afraid you don't know where it is
YOUR ANSWER:
Rez Band Jefferson Airplane

Deliverance or Black Sabbath?
The group Black Sabbath have actually given invitations during their concerts for young people to receive Satan. Their "live" album is titled "Live Evil". One of their albums, is truthfully titled, "We Sold Our Soul for Rock'n Roll". Their song N.I.B. (Nativity In Black) is one of the most openly satanic songs ever recorded. It is a love-song from Lucifer, in which Lucifer invites the listener to "please take my hand": Some people say MY LOVE cannot be true
Please believe me, MY LOVE, and I'll show you
I will give you those things you thought unreal . . .
YOUR LOVE FOR ME has just got to be real . . .
Look into my eyes, you will see who I am
MY NAME IS LUCIFER, PLEASE TAKE MY HAND! Now surely, there is a huge DIFFERENCE between the "Christian" group Deliverance and "satan-rockers" Black Sabbath.
Question 6. Is the following lyrics from the album "What A Joke" by Deliverance or "Masters of Reality" by Black Sabbath? When you think about death do you lose
your breath or do you keep your cool?
Would you like to see the Pope on the end
of a rope - do you think he's a fool?YOUR ANSWER:
Deliverance Black Sabbath

[LittleladyinChrist]

77's or Led Zeppelin?
The song "Stairway to Heaven" by the group Led Zeppelin is the most popular song in rock history. One line of the song, says, "you know sometimes words have TWO MEANINGS." They should know — the song is drenched in satanic backmasking! One part when played forward, says: "Yes, their are two paths you can go by, but in the long run there's still time to change the road you're on." But when played backwards, you clearly hear: "IT'S MY SWEET SATAN . . . Oh I will sing because I live with Satan." Jimmy Page of Led Zeppelin is a devout follower of satanist, Aliester Crowley. Page went so far as purchase Crowley's old mansion. Let there be no doubt who Zeppelin's master is — on their song "Houses of the Holy", they sing, "Let the music be YOUR MASTER/ Will you heed the master's call/ Oh, Satan . . ."
Now surely, there is a vast DIFFERENCE between the "Christian" group 77 and "satanic" Led Zeppelin.
Question 7. Is the following lyrics from the album "Drowning With Land in Sight" by 77's or "Presence" by Led Zeppelin? Nobody's fault but mine
Trying to save my soul to light. . .
Devil he told me to roll
How to roll the line tonight. . .
Somebody show me the door?
Somebody show me the ding dong ding dong
I will get down rolling tonight
Oh, it's nobody's fault but mine
YOUR ANSWER:
77's Led Zeppelin

DC Talk or Doobie Brothers?
The Doobie Brothers were named after a "doobie" — a marijuana joint! On their album "What Were Once Vices are Now Habits", — the band is seen in hell with thousands of fans!
Now surely, there is a big DIFFERENCE between the "Christian" group DC Talk and "dope-named" the Doobie Brothers.
Question 8. Is the following lyrics from the album "Free At Last" by DC Talk or "Toulouse Street" by the Doobie Brothers? I don't care what they may say
I don't care what they may do
I don't care what they may say
Jesus is . . . alright
*NOTE* Webster defines "all right" as 1) well enough 2) satisfactory (Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary, 1977 p. 31) To a REAL Christian, Jesus Christ is not "alright". Jesus Christ is the Lord of Lords and the King of Kings! This is sacrilege at best and no REAL born-again Christian would say Jesus Christ is "alright"! YOUR ANSWER:
DC Talk Doobie Brothers

Johnny Cash or Danzig?
The group Danzig, led by Glenn Danzig, is one of the most openly satanic in rock. Glenn Danzig, spewing his hatred for the Lord Jesus Christ, proudly designed a logo for the band — a demon strangling Jesus Christ with blood gushing from Jesus's eyes! One of Danzig's song is "Serpent Jesus, Snakes of Christ". On the inside of their album, "Danzig II - Lucifuge", Glenn Danzig is wearing the demonic upside-down cross, with the words of John 8:44 brazenly above him, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do."
Johnny Cash (along with Amy Grant) recently (Dec. 1996) appeared on the Billy Graham Christmas Special. Now surely, there is a tremendous DIFFERENCE between "Christian" Johnny Cash and "satanic" Danzig.
Question 9. Is the following lyrics from the album "Unchained" by "Christian" Johnny Cash or is it a song written by "satanic" Glenn Danzig? Bad luck wind been blowing at my back
I was born to bring trouble to wherever I'm at
Got the number thirteen tattooed on my neck
When the ink starts to itch, then the black will turn to red
I was born in the soul of misery
Never had me a name
They just gave me the number when I was young
Got a long line of heartache I carry it well
The list of lives I've broken reach from here to hell
Back luck been blowing at my back
I pray you don't look at me, I pray I don't look back
YOUR ANSWER:
Johnny Cash Glenn Danzig

Audio Adrenaline or Edgar Winter?
One of Edgar Winter's album was titled "White Trash". The cover of their album, "They Only Come Out at Night", shows Edgar Winter with makeup as a homosexual "drag-queen". Question 10. Is the following lyrics from the album "Bloom" by the "Christian" group Audio Adrenaline or from Edgar Winter's "drag-queen" "They Only Come Out at Night"? All over the country, I've seen it the same
Nobody's winning at this type of game
They got to do better, they got to take aim
All of the answers, will come from within
Come on and take a free ride
Come on and get by my side
YOUR ANSWER:
Audio Adrenaline Edgar Winter

[LittleladyinChrist]

visit the website to give your answers and see the results http://www.av1611.org/crocktst.html

[MikeMcK]

Certainly, there is a clear DIFFERENCE between "Christian" Amy Grant and "new-age" devotee Joni Mitchell. Question 1. Is the following "new-age environmental" lyrics from "Christian" Amy Grant's "House of Love" or "new-age" Joni Mitchell's "Ladies of the Canyon"? They took all the trees and put 'em in a tree museumAnd then they charged all the poeple twenty-five bucks just to see 'emDon't it always seem to goThat you don't know what you've got till it's goneThey paved paradise and put up a parking lot

Hey farmer, farmer, put away your DDT nowGive me spots on my apples but leave me the birds and the bees, pleaseDon't it always seem to goThat you don't know what you've got till it's goneThey paved paradise and put up a parking lotYOUR ANSWER:
Amy Grant Joni Mitchell


OK. First of all, I own that album, as I do most of Joni Mitchell's albums. Would you mind please explaining what is "New Age" about that particular song? Or why the fact that Joni Mitchell sang it makes Amy Grant a bad person?


Petra or KISS?




The group Kiss leaped on stage as rock'n roll demons — puking blood, breathing fire and screaming — "God of rock and roll, we'll rob you of your virgin soul!" There is no mistaking the "god" of KISS, a glance at the lyrics from "Unholy" on their album "Revenge" show their "god": I am the incubus/ I lay the egg in youThe worm that burrows/ Through your brainBut you are the beast/ That calls me by my nameUnholyI was created by man, yeah I'm the Lord of the flies,you know I'm UnholyFrom the left hand of power comes the father of liesUnholy - Unholy!Surely, there is a clear SEPARATION between "Christian" Petra and "satanic" KISS.

So then, basically what you're trying to do is to create a sense of guilt by association.

If you have a problem with this song, then your argument lies with KISS, not with Petra.

Petra had nothing to do with the song.




Question 2. Is the following lyrics from the "Christian" group Petra's album "Petra Means Rock" or satanic KISS's "Revenge" (along with the above "Unholy")? God gave rock and roll to you, gave rock and roll to youGave rock and roll to everyoneGod gave rock and roll to you, gave rock and roll to youPut it in the soul of everyoneYOUR ANSWER:
Petra KISS


Actually, the song was originally written and performed by Rod Argent, not KISS, so your point is moot.

Point of Grace or Earth, Wind and Fire?
There's no mistaking the new age/satanic influence of the group Earth, Wind and Fire. They blatantly flaunt occult symbolism, such as the all-seeing eye of Horus, zodiac signs, pyramids, hexagrams, the Egyptian ankh, and many more on their albums. To show the ultimate blasphemy, they even name one of their albums "I AM" -- a name reserved for God! The album "I AM" has a cross of Christ in the center with an embryo and an old man in the center with a temple in the foreground. Their song "Serpentine Fire" is based on the new age teachings found in Shah Kriza Yogi Meditation Cult.
There should be a clear SEPARATION between "Christian" Point of Grace and "new age/occultic" Earth, Wind and Fire.

Once again, so what? You're still just trying to demonize Point of Grace based on something that somebody else did.





Question 3. Is the following lyrics from the "Christian" group Point of Grace's album "Life, Love and Other Mysteries" or occultic Earth, Wind and Fire's "Gratitude" (along with "Sun Goddess")? If you sing a song a dayYou will make a better wayYeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. . .Sing a songSing a song. . .YOUR ANSWER:
Point of Grace Earth, Wind and Fire

So, what exactly is wrong with this song?

77's or Led Zeppelin?
The song "Stairway to Heaven" by the group Led Zeppelin is the most popular song in rock history. One line of the song, says, "you know sometimes words have TWO MEANINGS." They should know — the song is drenched in satanic backmasking! One part when played forward, says: "Yes, their are two paths you can go by, but in the long run there's still time to change the road you're on." But when played backwards, you clearly hear: "IT'S MY SWEET SATAN . . . Oh I will sing because I live with Satan." Jimmy Page of Led Zeppelin is a devout follower of satanist, Aliester Crowley. Page went so far as purchase Crowley's old mansion. Let there be no doubt who Zeppelin's master is — on their song "Houses of the Holy", they sing, "Let the music be YOUR MASTER/ Will you heed the master's call/ Oh, Satan . . ."
Now surely, there is a vast DIFFERENCE between the "Christian" group 77 and "satanic" Led Zeppelin.



Question 7. Is the following lyrics from the album "Drowning With Land in Sight" by 77's or "Presence" by Led Zeppelin? Nobody's fault but mineTrying to save my soul to light. . .Devil he told me to rollHow to roll the line tonight. . .Somebody show me the door?Somebody show me the ding dong ding dongI will get down rolling tonightOh, it's nobody's fault but mineYOUR ANSWER:
77's Led Zeppelin


Once again, neither. It was written and made popular by the legendary Gospel music writer and performer, Thomas A. Dorsey.

Now, if performing a song that Led Zeppelin also happens to have recorded makes the 77's not Christian, then does performing Thomas A. Dorsey's famous Gospel song make Led Zeppelin Christian?
If not, why not?

DC Talk or Doobie Brothers?
The Doobie Brothers were named after a "doobie" — a marijuana joint! On their album "What Were Once Vices are Now Habits", — the band is seen in hell with thousands of fans!
Now surely, there is a big DIFFERENCE between the "Christian" group DC Talk and "dope-named" the Doobie Brothers.



Question 8. Is the following lyrics from the album "Free At Last" by DC Talk or "Toulouse Street" by the Doobie Brothers? I don't care what they may sayI don't care what they may doI don't care what they may sayJesus is . . . alright*NOTE* Webster defines "all right" as 1) well enough 2) satisfactory (Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary, 1977 p. 31) To a REAL Christian, Jesus Christ is not "alright". Jesus Christ is the Lord of Lords and the King of Kings! This is sacrilege at best and no REAL born-again Christian would say Jesus Christ is "alright"! YOUR ANSWER:
DC Talk Doobie Brothers



El wrongo, once again. It's neither.

It's co-written by Gram Parsons, who was very well known for his Gospel material and sung by the Byrds, with alternate takes with Gram Parsons and Roger McGuinn on lead vocals.

They made the song popular long before the Doobies ever sang it.

Johnny Cash or Danzig?
The group Danzig, led by Glenn Danzig, is one of the most openly satanic in rock. Glenn Danzig, spewing his hatred for the Lord Jesus Christ, proudly designed a logo for the band — a demon strangling Jesus Christ with blood gushing from Jesus's eyes! One of Danzig's song is "Serpent Jesus, Snakes of Christ". On the inside of their album, "Danzig II - Lucifuge", Glenn Danzig is wearing the demonic upside-down cross, with the words of John 8:44 brazenly above him, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do."
Johnny Cash (along with Amy Grant) recently (Dec. 1996) appeared on the Billy Graham Christmas Special. Now surely, there is a tremendous DIFFERENCE between "Christian" Johnny Cash and "satanic" Danzig.



Question 9. Is the following lyrics from the album "Unchained" by "Christian" Johnny Cash or is it a song written by "satanic" Glenn Danzig? Bad luck wind been blowing at my backI was born to bring trouble to wherever I'm atGot the number thirteen tattooed on my neckWhen the ink starts to itch, then the black will turn to redI was born in the soul of miseryNever had me a nameThey just gave me the number when I was youngGot a long line of heartache I carry it wellThe list of lives I've broken reach from here to hellBack luck been blowing at my backI pray you don't look at me, I pray I don't look backYOUR ANSWER:
Johnny Cash Glenn Danzig


OK. So what? What's bad about this song?

Audio Adrenaline or Edgar Winter?
One of Edgar Winter's album was titled "White Trash". The cover of their album, "They Only Come Out at Night", shows Edgar Winter with makeup as a homosexual "drag-queen".

Actually, this is just silly. The cover of that album is just Edgar Winter without a shirt on. There's nothing that that can reasonably be interpreted to be a "drag queen".

If these people have to resort to this sort of trash to try to make rock music look bad, then they have no credibility with me. I post quite a bit on Baptistboard.com and we've debunked so much of what they say that it's just a joke now.

[IronWill]

Do your pastor prevent you from listening to non-gospel songs?
What is he going to do? Come do random radio checks at my house and car?

[mlqurgw]

What is he going to do? Come do random radio checks at my house and car?
I have known some pastors who have done exactly that. They love to come and surprise you in order to find out if you living according to the standards.

[IronWill]

I have known some pastors who have done exactly that. They love to come and surprise you in order to find out if you living according to the standards.
Unfortunately, I've known them too. But they'd have a hard time trying to mess with me like that.

[TwistTim]

visit the website to give your answers and see the results http://www.av1611.org/crocktst.html
that link says it in the title... av1611.org is a crock.... it's one man's jelously over his failed attempt at success coming down and condeming all Christian Musicians that ever have exisited since then....

I have been though there, and looked at his so called "evidence" so don't tell I don't know what I'm talking about.....

it's clear what his real motives are if you read the whole thing.

to get this off the junk of av1611 and back on track

No, My Pastor doesn't "banish" any music for people, though he does suggest they make wise choices and choose Christan Music.... In fact he once gave me 2 dvd's both Secular movies... The Count of Monte Cristo (Latest Version) and Catch Me If You Can.... neither are Christian in nature, though there is the Priest in Monte Cristo, who warns of not sinning the sin they condemned you for..... and Catch Me does have the theme of Sin and Punishment....

I did have one Youth Minister do the surprise Visit thing.... fortuinatly for me, my room was clean, some youth were not so lucky and had pictures of their private clothing articles and other various items taken....including magazines, cd's, posters.....

I do listen to some Secular music, but not much, and usually movie theme stuff...... and it's like 1 song to 100 Christian songs or so.....
and with the advent of Podcasts, I listen to those more....

[MikeMcK]

that link says it in the title... av1611.org is a crock.... it's one man's jelously over his failed attempt at success coming down and condeming all Christian Musicians that ever have exisited since then....

I have been though there, and looked at his so called "evidence" so don't tell I don't know what I'm talking about.....

We used to discuss this av1611 and their rantings over on BaptistBoard.com all the time. We've gone over them with a pretty fine toothed comb and it's clear that those people just can't be trusted.

Their whole shtick is based on guilt by association. "Person 'A' recorded a song. Person 'B' also recorded that song. We don't like person 'A'. Therefore, person 'B' is bad.

Most of the time, their information isn't even correct, such as with the above examples.

Other times, it's based on outright deception.

For example, they were talking about a tour featuring DC Talk and Carman and they quoted Toby McKeehan out of context.

They quoted McKeehan as saying, "it was all about the money", in order to make him appear to be talking about the tour and saying that they were just touring for money, and not because they had any interest in ministry.

Turns out, not only was the quote taken from an article that appeared before the tour even took place, it didn't have anything to do with touring or with Carman. He was explaining why they turned down a mainstream label deal because they believed they were in it for ministry, and the record label only cared about how much money they could make.

I think my favorite thing they do is to say "so and so died at age ___. Therefore, all rock musicians are living immoral lifestyles". And they always paint it to look as though the artist died doing some terrible thing, such as a drug overdose. In nearly every case, the artist died either from some illness or some perfectly acceptable activity.

They never tell you about artists who live long, productive lives, or those who don't drink or do drugs or any of those things.

I also get a kick out of it when they try to warn kids about some band from the 70's that no teenager has ever even heard of. I once saw them warning teenagers against England Dan and John Ford Coley. It's true.

Way to stay on the cutting edge, av1661. What's next? A Bay City Rollers expose?

[TwistTim]

City Rollers.... hmmm Holy Rollers

notice how both are four letter first names, ending in y, and both claim to be rollers, like those Vegas High Rollers.... therefore Holy Rollers are gamblers who Roller blade though Cities.

Thats how av1611 gets their points... no logic to it...

I wish I were kidding, I am not... as MikeMcK up there pointed out, everything has been debunked and its either misquoted or its a bold face lie based on a bad presupposition.....

[BigChrisfilm]

If you are looking for God honoring music, that is not a hymnal, than let me know what kind of music you like, because I have been going through the process of cleaning this part of my life up. I think we should only listen to music that glorifys God, now, although I didn't always think it mattered. But I have some great alternatives, and they are just as good as the ones you listen to know. Rock, Rap, hit me up, and I will post them for you.

[Adriana]

Well, I've been through an interview before my baptism and the pastor asked me if I liked secular music. I said yes. So he explained that though it's not a sin, we Christians should avoid it and always search for gospel songs. I took his advice as an indirect prohibition.

Of course I love worship music, but I don't intend to stop listening to other genres.

You have helped me a lot!

Thanx