why are pastors not preaching on hell [Archive]

View Full Version : why are pastors not preaching on hell

fifi

12th March 2007, 02:37 PM

MARK777

12th March 2007, 03:17 PM

Personally I think that teaching people about the love of God and who he really is and the work of Christ on the Cross, and about the spiritual life is of great importance, teaching people on Hell can have a negative impact on someones view of Christianity, yes it needs to be taught that there is such a place, but scaring people into salvation because of the fear of Hell to me wrong.

Like the bible says, for God so loved the world, God is love, Hell is the end result of being seperated from a loving God, as God respects everyones freewill decision they send themselves there.

you see if God is love, and the only way true love can be exressed is through 100% free will, God shown this to mankind through salvation, and the only way we can recipitate this is by coming to know and love God through our 100% free will decision and understanding on who he is.

Any relationship based on fear can cause problems, mentorship of the Holy spirit after salvation can bear us witness to the awesome power of God, and from this we can learn to fear God in a respectful way, from what I understand from Gods word to this point is that God could have made us robots, but he chose to make us able to be for or against him, if we are for him I am sure he would want it to be out of love and respect rather than fear.

Although for some people they do need a wake up call, be it a disaster or whatever to recognise God and draw them to him, but ultimately God is in control.

tonysma

12th March 2007, 06:10 PM

I believe a church should teach love. About God.

Jessica Lauren

12th March 2007, 06:58 PM

They should teach about hell of course, but only as showing it as a consequence. I do not think it is something that should be pounded into people's heads., but I don't think it is okay to sugar coat it. However, talking about love, heaven, and Jesus is of more importance.

New_Wineskin

12th March 2007, 09:36 PM

I feel that more preacher and pastors need to start talking about hell because they way the church is right now its seems that people are not scared of hell because are actions show otherwise.

give some feed back please.:)

First of all , if anyone tries to *preach at* me , I leave immediately . If one is attempting to *teach* , I will listen . Second of all , Jesus is my God , not Hell . I want to hear about my God . I am not scared of Hell because I have an advocate . And , He just so happens to be Jesus . That's awesome .

BustedFlat

12th March 2007, 10:27 PM

I see nothing wrong with emphasizing the positive aspects of The Word. If your whole doctrine is one of Peace Love Incorporated for all those who seek (Thank you Peter Gabriel) then there is a major problem in that church.
A church that focus on the hellfire and brimstone is in as much trouble. Neither extreme is good for the believers nor for the Body of Christ.

epyon

12th March 2007, 10:28 PM

I feel that more preacher and pastors need to start talking about hell because they way the church is right now its seems that people are not scared of hell because are actions show otherwise.

give some feed back please.:)
You are right but pastor should preach about the god news of Jesus and God. Scaring people by say the "H" word will not work. People have to choose wether they won't to serve God with there heart then to scarethem into do so.

Balance

12th March 2007, 11:47 PM

If Jesus is out example - let's preach about hell as many times as He did in the Gospels.

MikeMcK

12th March 2007, 11:49 PM

First of all , if anyone tries to *preach at* me , I leave immediately.

So then, how do you feel about the Bible's teaching that we're to gather together corporately to hear preaching?

MikeMcK

12th March 2007, 11:53 PM

Hell is the end result of being seperated from a loving God

Nowhere in the Bible do we see that Hell is seperation from God. In fact, it tells us plainly that Hell is an eternal place of fire and punishment for the wicked.

as God respects everyones freewill decision they send themselves there.

Again, this is Unbiblical. The Bible teaches that people don't send themselves to Hell, but that God sends people to Hell upon judging them to be wicked and unrighteous.

Jesus tells us that He will personally send people into everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels.

PaladinGirl

12th March 2007, 11:55 PM

MikeMcK

12th March 2007, 11:55 PM

...

MikeMcK

12th March 2007, 11:57 PM

I believe a church should teach love. About God.

But how can you teach about God's love without teaching Christ's death on the cross and how can you teach about Christ's death on the cross without teaching the reason for His death on the cross, which was so that the unrighteous could be saved from Hell?

Ben12

13th March 2007, 12:01 AM

Bible Translations
Old Testament
New Testament
Total
"Authorized" King James Version
31
23
54
New King James Version
19
13
32
American Standard Version
0
13
13
New American Standard Bible
0
13
13
Revised Standard Version
0
12
12
New Revised Standard Version
0
12
12
Revised English Bible
0
13
13
New Living Translation
0
13
13
Amplified
0
13
13
New International Version (best-selling English Bible)
0
14
14
Darby
0
12
12
New Century Version
0
12
12
Wesley's New Testament (1755)

0
0
Scarlett's N.T. (1798)

0
0
The New Testament in Greek and English (Kneeland, 1823)

0
0
Young's Literal Translation (1891)
0
0
0
Twentieth Century New Testament (1900)

0
0
Rotherham's Emphasized Bible (reprinted, 1902)
0
0
0
Fenton's Holy Bible in Modern English (1903)
0
0
0
Weymouth's New Testament in Modern Speech (1903)

0
0
Jewish Publication Society Bible Old Testament (1917)
0

0
Panin's Numeric English New Testament (1914)

0
0
The People's New Covenant (Overbury, 1925)

0
0
Hanson's New Covenant (1884)

0
0
Western N.T. (1926)

0
0
NT of our Lord and Savior Anointed (Tomanek, 1958)

0
0
Concordant Literal NT (1983)

0
0
The N.T., A Translation (Clementson, 1938)

0
0
Emphatic Diaglott, Greek/English Interlinear (Wilson, 1942)

0
0
New American Bible (1970)
0
0
0
Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible (1976)
0
0
0
Tanakh, The Holy Scriptures, Old Testament (1985)
0

0
The New Testament, A New Translation (Greber, 1980)

0
0
Christian Bible (1991)
0
0
0
World English Bible (in progress)
0
0
0
Original Bible Project (Dr. James Tabor, still in translation)
0
0
0
Zondervan Parallel N.T. in Greek and English (1975)**

0
0
Int. NASB-NIV Parallel N.T. in Greek and English (1993)**

0
0

(* The KJV and the NKJV are the only two of the major translations in the list above to use "Hell" in the Old Testament. Even the NKJV which was only supposed to modernize the English of the traditional "Authorized Version," the KJV, took a dozen Hell references out. (2 Sam 26:6, Job 11:8, Job 26:6, Ps 16:10, Ps 18:5, Ps 26:13, Ps 116:3. Is 5:14, Is 28:15, Is 57:9, Jonah 2:2). It seems even in the King James Tradition, the use of the word "Hell" is decreasing.

Balance

13th March 2007, 12:13 AM

. Jesus preached about Hell and we are to follow His example.

Can you show us where?

whateveristrue

13th March 2007, 03:05 AM

GraceLikeRainFallsDown

13th March 2007, 05:05 AM

Can you show us where?

Quick hell search results:

Jesus's words (red letter)
Matt. 5:22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sistera will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,b’ is answerable to the Sanhedrin. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.

Matt. 5:29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

Matt. 5:30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

Matt. 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matt. 18:9 And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

Matt. 23:15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and then you make that convert twice as much a child of hell as you are.

Matt. 23:33 ¶ “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

Mark 9:43 [44] If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.

Mark 9:45 [46] And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell.

Mark 9:47 And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell,

Luke 12:5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after your body has been killed, has authority to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.

Also:

James 3:6 The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of one’s life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.

2Pet. 2:4 ¶ For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,a putting them in chains of darknessb to be held for judgment;

Nadiine

13th March 2007, 06:35 AM

Pastors should be preaching the Gospel. However, most people don't want to hear it, and will be offended by it. In order to keep people from leaving their church, pastors will preach what people want to here... which is either a watered down version of the Gospel, or something completely different. Because if they lose their congregation... they lose their salary.. and apparently that's the whole reason for their ministry!
Yep, well said. Here's my input on that, are pastors like that even CALLED to the ministry by God?? Are they in God's will if they refuse to teach the entire word of God?

& I'm not talking about banging the pulpit every single week & screaming out the hellfire & brimstone message in anger - but it should be taught somewhere at sometime and in love & sincerety.

Nadiine

13th March 2007, 06:46 AM

I am not scared of Hell because I have an advocate . And , He just so happens to be Jesus . That's awesome .
We have an advocate IF we are indeed "born again". But we also have Mat. 7:21-23 where many who thought they were His, aren't allowed entry into heaven.
So I think it's a message we ALL need to hear & be open to recieving as truth. (whether you think hell is just separation or includes literal fire).

First of all , if anyone tries to *preach at* me , I leave immediately . If one is attempting to *teach* , I will listen
I wonder what consititutes being "preached at"? Is there some way their teaching isn't acceptable? I don't know how "fun" any sermon that has hell included in it doesn't feel like we're being preached AT -- namely if we feel conviction or fear of our spiritual condition.

In my experience, the only time I feel preached "at", is when something hits home to me & I'm guilty of that issue myself. (it's never a comfortable feeling).

MARK777

13th March 2007, 07:12 AM

Nowhere in the Bible do we see that Hell is seperation from God. In fact, it tells us plainly that Hell is an eternal place of fire and punishment for the wicked.

Again, this is Unbiblical. The Bible teaches that people don't send themselves to Hell, but that God sends people to Hell upon judging them to be wicked and unrighteous.

Jesus tells us that He will personally send people into everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels.

I always quote out of the scripture...

Gen 2:16 And Jehovah God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Did they die physically the day they ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil ? God's lfe is spiritual, Adam and Eve died spiritually at this moment, meaning they were seperated from God spiritually.

Gen 3:15 and I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed: he shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

This first prophecised the coming of Christ and what his work will accomplish, to destroy the work of the devil.

Gen 3:22 And Jehovah God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever -
Gen 3:23 therefore Jehovah God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden the Cherubim, and the flame of a sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

From then on in every man born was born spiritually seperated from God, other than our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Eph 2:1 And you did he make alive, when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins,
Eph 2:2 wherein ye once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers of the air, of the spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience;
Eph 2:3 among whom we also all once lived in the lust of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest: -
Eph 2:4 but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved),
Eph 2:6 and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus:

This scripture clearly teches that we were dead, as in spiritually dead, and lived according to our flesh, and God has made us alive again through Christ by his Grace.

Gal 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are contrary the one to the other; that ye may not do the things that ye would.

We are commanded to walk by means of the spirit, everyone who is born again has this power available, the same spiritual life Adam had with God while in fellowship is made available to us throught Christ the last Adam.

1Co 2:9 but as it is written, Things which eye saw not, and ear heard not, And which entered not into the heart of man, Whatsoever things God prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10 But unto us God revealed them through the Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co 2:11 For who among men knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of the man, which is in him? even so the things of God none knoweth, save the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 But we received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is from God; that we might know the things that were freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Spirit teacheth; combining spiritual things with spiritual words.
1Co 2:14 Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged.
1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, and he himself is judged of no man.
1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he should instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Throughout the whole new testament we are instructed that we are to live the spiritual life, this is the life we can live here now in time fellowshipping with God, we only receive this at the moment of salvation, therefore anyone who is not born again is without the spiritual life, ie spiritually dead, if being spiritually dead is living life without God, and the only way a person can receive salvation is throught Christ, and God the holy Spirit does the work to convict all of mankind of their Sin issue and the need for salvation, and they can see and they still reject until death, who sent that person to Hell ??

If God did all he could on his part and they still reject him, some do even when they know him, it is them that made the choice not God.

Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up;
Joh 3:15 that whosoever believeth may in him have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Here it teaches that all who are without Christ are judged already, the only way anyone can get saved is through faith in Christ, hell is the result of rejection.

MikeMcK

13th March 2007, 07:17 AM

I always quote out of the scripture...

Gen 2:16 And Jehovah God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Did they die physically the day they ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil ? God's lfe is spiritual, Adam and Eve died spiritually at this moment, meaning they were seperated from God spiritually.

Gen 3:15 and I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed: he shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

This first prophecised the coming of Christ and what his work will accomplish, to destroy the work of the devil.

Gen 3:22 And Jehovah God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever -
Gen 3:23 therefore Jehovah God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden the Cherubim, and the flame of a sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

From then on in every man born was born spiritually seperated from God, other than our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Eph 2:1 And you did he make alive, when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins,
Eph 2:2 wherein ye once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers of the air, of the spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience;
Eph 2:3 among whom we also all once lived in the lust of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest: -
Eph 2:4 but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved),
Eph 2:6 and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus:

This scripture clearly teches that we were dead, as in spiritually dead, and lived according to our flesh, and God has made us alive again through Christ by his Grace.

Gal 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are contrary the one to the other; that ye may not do the things that ye would.

We are commanded to walk by means of the spirit, everyone who is born again has this power available, the same spiritual life Adam had with God while in fellowship is made available to us throught Christ the last Adam.

1Co 2:9 but as it is written, Things which eye saw not, and ear heard not, And which entered not into the heart of man, Whatsoever things God prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10 But unto us God revealed them through the Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co 2:11 For who among men knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of the man, which is in him? even so the things of God none knoweth, save the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 But we received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is from God; that we might know the things that were freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Spirit teacheth; combining spiritual things with spiritual words.
1Co 2:14 Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged.
1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, and he himself is judged of no man.
1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he should instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Throughout the whole new testament we are instructed that we are to live the spiritual life, this is the life we can live here now in time fellowshipping with God, we only receive this at the moment of salvation, therefore anyone who is not born again is without the spiritual life, ie spiritually dead, if being spiritually dead is living life without God, and the only way a person can receive salvation is throught Christ, and God the holy Spirit does the work to convict all of mankind of their Sin issue and the need for salvation, and they can see and they still reject until death, who sent that person to Hell ??

If God did all he could on his part and they still reject him, some do even when they know him, it is them that made the choice not God.

Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up;
Joh 3:15 that whosoever believeth may in him have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Here it teaches that all who are without Christ are judged already, the only way anyone can get saved is through faith in Christ, hell is the result of rejection.

That's swell, but the idea that Hell is nothing more than "seperation from God" and that we "send ourselves to Hell" is still Unbiblical.

MARK777

13th March 2007, 07:23 AM

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Doesnt this scripture say we send ourselves there ?

he that beleive is not judged.

he that doesnt is judged already.

This is our free will decision isnt it?

Athene

13th March 2007, 08:30 AM

I don't think the problem is lack of teaching on hell, the problem is the way churches potray God and christian life, they teach freedom without responsibility. God's love but not God's discipline.

Nadiine

13th March 2007, 08:34 AM

mysterychristian

13th March 2007, 12:34 PM

I feel that more preacher and pastors need to start talking about hell because they way the church is right now its seems that people are not scared of hell because are actions show otherwise.

give some feed back please.:)
The goodness of God is what leadeth a man to repentance a change of heart... God is love...

Yes there is a word in the bible called hell but most do not understand what it is, and those who think they do try to scare the crap out of people to turn them to God, which is foolish....

If you were God would your rather someone love you because of a freewill decision or Love you becasue of fear or coercion or demand...?

We are to love people into the Fathers arms not scare them into it,, yes scaring may work some of the time but it is not right and it makes Christianity a laughing stock with all these corner fake preachers who are not in their right minds who are really working against God not for God.

My Bible says the goodness of God leadeth not pushes or pressures or forces a man to repentance.

leadeth means someone makes a freewll decision to follow.... Not out of coercion, of course we hold forth the word but not Hell, fire and damnation....... or fear

Release with Boldness

Philippians 2:15-16a
That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
Holding forth the word of life; . . .

II Corinthians 5:18-20
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Clearly God has given us His Word and the ministry to speak it to others. But, God has limited Himself to the free will of man. He gave us His word. He gave us the ministry of that Word. He made us ambassadors. He wants us to hold forth the word of life. But God cannot (and will not) MAKE you speak His Word. He asks. He even begs and beseeches. But He never possesses or controls. If the Word of God is going to be made known, we must rise up and boldly speak it.
Isaiah 6:8
Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.

God is continually asking: "Who can I send?" "Who will speak for Me?" He is just waiting for someone like Isaiah to respond with a willing heart: "Here am I; send me!" Some will respond, "The word of God is available to anyone who wants to hear. With modern technology and the abundance of teaching available anyone who wants to know can know. The Word of God has already gone out throughout and over the whole world. I do not have to speak it." The truth is that there are people who are hungry to hear God's Word that only you can reach.

One believer speaking with a heart of love for God to another person is God's design for the movement of His Word.

Matthew 9:36-38
But when he [Jesus Christ] saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd.
Then saith he unto his disciples, The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few;
Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

There are today, just as there were in Jesus Christ's day, many who want to hear God's Word. The harvest is still plenteous. But God is limited to those who will respond, "Here am I; send me." The labourers are still few. We need to pray that God will send more labourers to speak His Word. But, before we pray for others to speak we need to be ready and willing to go ourselves. God needs you first!
Matthew 5:6
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

We have this promise from God that those who are hungry to be right before God shall be filled. Those who want to know God's Word will be taught it. But God is still limited to those who will speak it for Him.
We have the Word that brings righteousness:
Romans 10:8b-10
. . . that is, the word of faith [believing], which we preach;
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

But those who hunger for righteousness will only hear if someone speaks:
Romans 10:14-15
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

God still asks, "Who shall I send?" When you respond with "Here am I; send me" and you hold forth that Word, God says that you bring glad tidings, you shine as lights in the world; how beautiful it is when we go!

In the first century there was a man who was hungry to know and believe God's Word. He wanted to be righteous before God and He had the zeal and enthusiasm to do whatever it took to live according to the accuracy of God's will. The only problem was he did not know the truth of God's Word and there was no one who was willing to speak for God to him. Why? Because in his zeal to be right before God, Paul (who had profited in the Jews' religion above many his equals in his own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of his fathers) persecuted the believers. He went city to city and captured men and women who believed in Jesus Christ, took them to prison, voted against them and had them executed. There was not a believer walking the Word at that time who was willing to face Paul, let alone share God's Word with him. Yet, here was a man who believed he was doing God's will. A man who hungered and thirsted after righteousness. A man who wanted to be right before God. A man who, once he believed, would take God's Word throughout the known world. A man who would be given the greatest revelation that God every gave to man. So we have a real problem. We have the promise of God that those who hunger will be filled. And we have a man who was hungry. But, we have a man who believed those speaking the truth were wrong and deserved death. And therefore, we did not have a believer willing to speak to this man. This is the only record in the Word where God sent His son Jesus Christ (after his resurrection) to speak face to face to a man. Yet even in this record, as soon as Paul was willing to listen, God sent him to a believer. Not to Peter. Not to James. Not to one of the leaders of the first century church. Why? Again, because they would not have been willing to speak to Paul. God is limited to our willingness to go and speak His Word. A certain disciple - a man named Ananias in Damascus was willing to speak for God. He was reluctant. He was cautious. He was a little afraid of Paul. Yet he was willing. He had that "Here am I; send me" attitude that allowed God to work with him to speak the Word to Paul.

There are other records throughout the book of Acts where believers, because of their Judean background, were unwilling to speak God's Word to the Gentiles. God had to beg. God had to give Peter special revelation (three times) to get him to go to the Gentile household of Cornelius. Lets look at Cornelius.
Acts 10:2
A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

Here was a man who hungered after righteousness. But he was a Gentile. The Judean believers DID believe in speaking the Word of God boldly . . .
Acts 4:13a - Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John . . .

Acts 4:19-20 - But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye. For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.

Acts 4:31b - and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

Acts 5:42 - And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

Acts 8:4 - Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.

But the Judean believers had limited themselves regarding to whom they would speak:
Acts 11:19
Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen traveled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.

It took a lot for God to convince Peter to speak to the Gentile household of Cornelius. And when Peter got back to Jerusalem the believers did not respond with joy. They were not blessed:
Acts 11:2-3
And when Peter was come up to Jerusalem, they that were of the circumcision contended with him,
Saying, Thou wentest in to men uncircumcised, and didst eat with them.

So, God has limited Himself to you and me. He wants His Word made known. There are people who want to hear. But you must be willing to speak. If you are willing to go for God, God will work with you. I have often said that if you want to learn to walk with God and hear His voice as he speaks to you, just start speaking His Word to others. As you are willing to carry out the ministry of His Word, God will make known His Word to you in an even greater way than you have known before.
I Timothy 2:4
[God] Who will have all men to be saved, and come unto the knowledge of the truth.

God's will is for ALL men to be saved AND come unto the knowledge of the truth. When you are willing to speak it, no matter who needs to hear it, God will teach it to you. God is asking: "Who shall I send?" We need to answer, as did Isaiah, "Here am I; send me!"

mysterychristian

13th March 2007, 12:43 PM

Lovingkindness & Truth

Psalm 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

God magnified His word above His name.
God's word makes known God.
Only by knowing His word can we know God, for God declares Himself in His word.
God's name describes God and represents everything that God is toward us.When God "puts His name under His word" He declares with everything that He is that His Word is good. God has signed His name to His word just like signing a check. God backs His word just as funds we have placed in the bank support the checks we might write. The word of God is as good as God.

Two characteristics of God's name (and thus of God Himself) that are "praised" in this verse and are used to back His magnified word are:

Lovingkindness (or Mercy) and Truth.

Lovingkindness is the Hebrew word: checed.
Checed is translated as mercy 137 times, as kindness 38 times, as lovingkindness 26 times, and goodness 12 times.

God's lovingkindness when demonstrated toward man is referred to as goodness or mercy.

When we are in distress God responds with goodness & mercy (http://www.cortright.org/mercy.htm) because the nature of God is Lovingkindness.

Lovingkindness and truth are characteristics of God that go together to describe God and are part of God's Name (http://www.cortright.org/namegod.htm) :

Psalm 57:10 For thy mercy[checed-lovingkindness] is great unto the heavens, and thy truth unto the clouds.

Psalm 108:4 For thy mercy[checed-lovingkindess] is great above the heavens: and thy truth reacheth unto the clouds.

Psalm 86:15 But thou, O Lord, art a God full of compassion, and gracious, longsuffering, and plenteous in mercy[checed-lovingkindness] and truth.

Exodus 34:5-6 And the Lord descended in the cloud, and stood with him [Moses] there, and proclaimed the name of the Lord. And the Lord passed by before him, and proclaimed, The Lord, the Lord God, merciful and gracious, longuffering, and abundant in goodness[checed-lovingkindness] and truth,...
God is abundant in lovingkindness and truth. God is plenteous in lovingkindness and truth. God's lovingkindess and truth reach to the heavens. These are key characteristics of God and are linked together in God's word. Truth without lovingkindness is not really truth!

Psalm 85:10 Mercy[lovingkindness] and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other.

If we are to walk God's word we must never separate God's lovingkindness from the truth of His word we present. When God sends forth His word of truth He always sends it forth with lovingkindness. When we walk the true path of God's word we walk in lovingkindess.

Psalm 57:3b ... God shall send forth his mercy[checed-lovingkindness] and his truth.

Psalm 25:10 All the paths of the Lord are mercy[checed-lovingkindness] and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.

Psalm 40:10b ... I have not concealed thy lovingkindness and thy truth from the great congregation.

God's lovingkindness toward man is very great. He has sent us His word of truth and we must believe it and share it. But we must always remember to deliver His word with the lovingkindness with which He sent it. Only then will the hearts of men turn to God and His wonderful matchless word. ALL the paths of the Lord are lovingkindness and truth. Truth without lovingkindness is not a "path of the Lord."

Proverbs 3:3-4 Let not mercy [checed-lovingkindness] and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart: So shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man.

Proverbs 16:6 By mercy[checed-lovingkindness] and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the Lord men depart from evil.

Hosea 4:1 Hear the word of the Lord, ye children of Israel: for the Lord hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land, because there is no truth, nor mercy[checed-lovingkindness], nor knowledge of God in the land.

The only way that iniquity is purged and a knowledge of God returned to the land is by presenting God's truth in lovingkindness from a heart filled with the same. A knowledge of God's true word is vital. But knowledge without lovingkindness does not purge iniquity. Lovingkindness and truth must always be presented together.

Nadiine

13th March 2007, 12:48 PM

The goodness of God is what leadeth a man to repentance a change of heart... God is love...

Yes there is a word in the bible called hell but most do not understand what it is, and those who think they do try to scare the crap out of people to turn them to God, which is foolish....

If you were God would your rather someone love you because of a freewill decision or Love you becasue of fear or coercion or demand...?

We are to love people into the Fathers arms not scare them into it,, yes scaring may work some of the time but it is not right and it makes Christianity a laughing stock with all these corner fake preachers who are not in their right minds who are really working against God not for God.

My Bible says the goodness of God leadeth not pushes or pressures or forces a man to repentance.

Well, God's GOODNESS didn't bring Israel to repent the several times God sent prophets to warn them of impending judgment for years on end...

God's GOODNESS of grace isn't leading many to repent today; despite not being under penalty of law....

And Jude 22-24 talks about using gentleness with SOME, and using FEAR with others...
Not everyone responds to goodness, and if fear of God and hell are what it takes, then by all means use it.

I loved my parents, but if it weren't for knowing their discipline, I would have disobeyed my parents alot more often than I did when I was younger. We still sin today when we know God's love & goodness.

It's actually fear that got my attn. & keeps my attn.
Hebrews 10:31 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=65&chapter=10&verse=31&version=49&context=verse)
It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

I don't see one means over another; I believe both are to be preached with sincerety & love.

StevenL

13th March 2007, 01:15 PM

Churches and most christians' teachings and beliefs about "hell" are based on bad translations of Hebrew words and upon pre-conceived medieval church ideas arising from paganism.

It's a good thing most preachers don't preach much about "hell" because the huge majority of preachers and believers alike have no idea what they're talking about. Oh, but they think they do. :) It's a shame really.

mysterychristian

13th March 2007, 01:16 PM

Well, God's GOODNESS didn't bring Israel to repent the several times God sent prophets to warn them of impending judgment for years on end...

God's GOODNESS of grace isn't leading many to repent today; despite not being under penalty of law....

And Jude 22-24 talks about using gentleness with SOME, and using FEAR with others...
Not everyone responds to goodness, and if fear of God and hell are what it takes, then by all means use it.

I loved my parents, but if it weren't for knowing their discipline, I would have disobeyed my parents alot more often than I did when I was younger. We still sin today when we know God's love & goodness.

It's actually fear that got my attn. & keeps my attn.
Hebrews 10:31 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=65&chapter=10&verse=31&version=49&context=verse)
It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

I don't see one means over another; I believe both are to be preached with sincerety & love.

No it was ISRAELS unbelief in GOD's Word spoken by the prophets that brought their demise, just like poeple today when they are taught the true word and reject it, they suffer the consequences because of their unbelief.....

Well, nadine I feel for you and the bondage that you are in becasue what brought me to God was the Love that he has for me and the Love and kindness and understanding of those who shared the word with me... I truly and sincerely do not understand How you could or would want to put people in that same bondage that you are in.. fear of God and such, God has nothing to do with fear it is the devil who puts fear in people and guilt and manipulates with those tools.... You are loved of God and if fear is what brought you to God then maybe you should search your heart and get rid of the fear, because God has not given us the spirit of fear, but of love and power and of a sound mind, God loves you and there is nothing that can seperate you from the LOVE of God........PERIOD....

It may have been and is what is keeping you right in your own mind with God but it is not God's will for His child to be afraid of Him at all, if you are a son of God a child of God then God wants to Father you... To love you, to bless you, ,to comfort you, for your to have PEACE, PEACE, PEACE... deep in your heart....!!!!

I harbor no ill will towards you becasue we all come from different backgrounds of learning, but we all have alos the opportunity to change if we want for the better, what would be the best is NO FEAR OF GOD...

I know that poeple see the term fear of the LORD or fear God , but it means respect great reverence and respect not the kind of fear that ties you up in a knot..

Are you a parent? Do you want your children to be afraid of you and to think that they have to earn your goodness and love? I should hope not... I would hope that that you would want them to love you just because you are there mom. God is your Father and He is LOVE that is his nature, and He wants freewill devotion to Him not devotion that is MOTIVATED by FEAR....

You are loved of the Father....

crawfish

13th March 2007, 01:18 PM

I don't think the problem is lack of teaching on hell, the problem is the way churches potray God and christian life, they teach freedom without responsibility. God's love but not God's discipline.
Excellent point.

There is a lot of "God Lite" being taught these days. I'm worried that it leads to making lots of "baby Christians" who never grow up. We MUST be a light in the world; this is not going to happen when we're being taught that God wants us to be prosperous and happy more than anything else.

Jesus' most beloved friends on this earth were imprisoned, tortured and killed. What makes us think we deserve so much more?

Nadiine

13th March 2007, 01:35 PM

No it was ISRAELS unbelief in GOD's Word spoken by the prophets that brought their demise, just like poeple today when they are taught the true word and reject it, they suffer the consequences because of their unbelief.....

Well, nadine I feel for you and the bondage that you are in becasue what brought me to God was the Love that he has for me and the Love and kindness and understanding of those who shared the word with me... I truly and sincerely do not understand How you could or would want to put people in that same bondage that you are in.. fear of God and such, God has nothing to do with fear it is the devil who puts fear in people and guilt and manipulates with those tools.... You are loved of God and if fear is what brought you to God then maybe you should search your heart and get rid of the fear, because God has not given us the spirit of fear, but of love and power and of a sound mind, God loves you and there is nothing that can seperate you from the LOVE of God........PERIOD....

It may have been and is what is keeping you right in your own mind with God but it is not God's will for His child to be afraid of Him at all, if you are a son of God a child of God then God wants to Father you... To love you, to bless you, ,to comfort you, for your to have PEACE, PEACE, PEACE... deep in your heart....!!!!

I harbor no ill will towards you becasue we all come from different backgrounds of learning, but we all have alos the opportunity to change if we want for the better, what would be the best is NO FEAR OF GOD...

I know that poeple see the term fear of the LORD or fear God , but it means respect great reverence and respect not the kind of fear that ties you up in a knot..

Are you a parent? Do you want your children to be afraid of you and to think that they have to earn your goodness and love? I should hope not... I would hope that that you would want them to love you just because you are there mom. God is your Father and He is LOVE that is his nature, and He wants freewill devotion to Him not devotion that is MOTIVATED by FEAR....

You are loved of the Father....
Please don't feel sorry for me, I love my Lord, I just have the proper balance of a healthy, reverant fear of Him, consequences of sin and the goodness of His mercy.

God does Not operate mercifully with ALL people. Romans 9, Hebrews 12.

By the sounds of your argument above, it sounds more like you're trying to prove there's no hell whatsoever than not preaching the balance of it to humanity.
They BOTH exist - God's goodness and hell/eternal condemnation.
Jude is very clear to use different approaches for different types of people.
If it takes fear of the consequence, then use fear of consequence.
Jesus preached hell more than heaven as well. He clearly taught to cut off limbs or take out eyes if they lead you to sin - it's better to enter heaven maimed than not enter.
(sounds like FEAR to me)...

I use all the Bible, not just cherry pick parts out that sound the least threatening or are easiest for me to follow to my liking.
It preaches BOTH, we should teach both as Jesus did; following His examples. :angel:

mysterychristian

13th March 2007, 01:39 PM

Excellent point.

There is a lot of "God Lite" being taught these days. I'm worried that it leads to making lots of "baby Christians" who never grow up. We MUST be a light in the world; this is not going to happen when we're being taught that God wants us to be prosperous and happy more than anything else.

Jesus' most beloved friends on this earth were imprisoned, tortured and killed. What makes us think we deserve so much more?
Are you serious? Beloved I wish ABOVE all THINGS that thou mightest prosper and be in health that is what the word says, also Jesus Christ came that we might have a more than abundant life, and also we have been delivered from the darkness of this present evil world,, by the completed works of Jesus Christ.

mysterychristian

13th March 2007, 01:44 PM

Please don't feel sorry for me, I love my Lord, I just have the proper balance of a healthy, reverant fear of Him, consequences of sin and the goodness of His mercy.

God does Not operate mercifully with ALL people. Romans 9, Hebrews 12.

By the sounds of your argument above, it sounds more like you're trying to prove there's no hell whatsoever than not preaching the balance of it to humanity.
They BOTH exist - God's goodness and hell/eternal condemnation.
Jude is very clear to use different approaches for different types of people.
If it takes fear of the consequence, then use fear of consequence.
Jesus preached hell more than heaven as well. He clearly taught to cut off limbs or take out eyes if they lead you to sin - it's better to enter heaven maimed than not enter.
(sounds like FEAR to me)...

I use all the Bible, not just cherry pick parts out that sound the least threatening or are easiest for me to follow to my liking.
It preaches BOTH, we should teach both as Jesus did; following His examples. :angel:
You are being just like Israel rejecting the simplicity of truth presented to you, I do not feel sorry for you in that way more like in the way that you were taught so wrong and believe a lie, type of sorry. You can be full of fear, the wrong kind if you want too it's your choice God gave you freedom of will but if you reject the goodness and mercy and kindness and love of God that is your own problem. May you enjoy your fear and torment of mind all the days of your life..... But it is not neccessary to be in that mental bondage that religion and false Christianity has the majority of Christians in......................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nadiine

13th March 2007, 01:45 PM

*one note about fear - - what we claim is "fear", I see as Godly warning of a consequence.
What person if they love someone won't warn them of impending danger?
So even what we consider "fear" is warning so that one doesn't end up being hurt or destroyed.

AngelsSword

13th March 2007, 01:51 PM

yes they definately need to preach more on Hell there is too much SWEETNESS and SUGAR in church and in modern christianity!!! christians take the blood of jesus and sit back like fat pigs and do nothing and give nothing ! WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!

Nadiine

13th March 2007, 01:54 PM

You are being just like Israel rejecting the simplicity of truth presented to you, I do not feel sorry for you in that way more like in the way that you were taught so wrong and believe a lie, type of sorry. You can be full of fear, the wrong kind if you want too it's your choice God gave you freedom of will but if you reject the goodness and mercy and kindness and love of God that is your own problem. May you enjoy your fear and torment of mind all the days of your life..... But it is not neccessary to be in that mental bondage that religion and false Christianity has the majority of Christians in......................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Can I asks how I'm REJECTING simplicity when I've accepted the SIMPLE truth of Jesus Christ's salvation thru death on the cross? (and that He is the Messiah)...
That's what Israel rejected along with doing works for salvation/atonement.
What have I rejected?
Do a study on 'fear of the Lord' as well - He isn't still sucking His thumb in His little manger anymore. Rev. 1 is an indicator of His majesty & rulership when He returns to take control.

I'm simply not ignoring facts that exist. Or cherry picking out the parts of the bible that I like best & discarding the rest.
The gospel INCLUDES the teaching of hell/eternal condemnation, and I don't find it plausible to remove parts of the gospel truth.

If JESUS taught on it, why are we to remove it?

MARK777

13th March 2007, 03:11 PM

Hmm mysterychristian you do seem to be missing one rather important aspect of who God our Father actually is, yes his justice has been satisfied with his Son on the cross and we can be recipients of the grace of God, but the reap what you sow principal is still in effect, there is still devine dicipline, it is taught throughout the new testament, as in the refiners fire teaching, God sometimes allows things to happen in our lives to make us stronger, to bring us closer to him, and to rid us of things that get in the way of spiritual growth.

And also if we walk away from him as it says in the scripture he will be a gentleman and allow us to walk away, he will always stay on our side, but he will and can do things to wake us up.

I know the father son analogy has been done many times but I think it works really well with this in mind, if a father spoils a child rotten and gives them everything, and never punishes or executes authority over them, what are the chances of this child growing up to be a respectful, humble loving person.

Some people can be told whats right and whats wrong and learn from the words, other people need to be shown for themselves before they will listen, God will do what he can to bring all of us to his glory and majesty and ultimately winner beleivers, it is much better to receive disapline and be put on the right track rather than left to do what we want and end up loser beleivers.

Without the knowledge that God has the power and will to do these things to beleivers, how can one truthfully respect God if he lets us do anything.

Fear in a respectful manner is a good thing, if I didnt fear getting yelled at by my Dad when I was younger, I would have just gone round doing as I pleased, authority is our friend, it wakes us up, puts us in the right direction, why should the authority of God be any different.

ranyhyn

13th March 2007, 03:26 PM

Why aren't pastors preaching much on hell?... I think it's because too many members of churches have gotten too wrapped up in the whole "prosperity" side of things. It's gotten to the point where people want to hear all the good things God does for believers but not wanting to hear what the consequences are when they don't follow the Word of God.

People like to hear all the good things they are going to get...not the bad stuff. A lot of times people want to say that the good things are still relevant for today but all the bad things are no longer applicable. But that's just my opinion. People don't like getting their toes stepped on. It's uncomfortable...And if the preacher gets to talkin' and their toes get to achin' they want to run the preacher off...

JTLauder

13th March 2007, 04:01 PM

What more needs to be said about Hell than it's some place you really don't want to go?

MikeMcK

13th March 2007, 06:16 PM

Doesnt this scripture say we send ourselves there ?

No.

LittleladyinChrist

13th March 2007, 06:17 PM

...

MikeMcK

13th March 2007, 06:19 PM

And also if we walk away from him as it says in the scripture he will be a gentleman and allow us to walk away, he will always stay on our side, but he will and can do things to wake us up.

LOL...

What Bible is that in? Mine says that God sets Himself against the wicked, never that He is "on their side".

Just out of curiousity, are you into "emergent" theology?

MikeMcK

13th March 2007, 06:22 PM

Churches and most christians' teachings and beliefs about "hell" are based on bad translations of Hebrew words

...which is interesting because none of the Gospels were written in Hebrew in the first place.

LittleladyinChrist

13th March 2007, 06:28 PM

Heres an article about evangelicals who choose to water down the word in exchange for church attendance (aka. money)

TAKING THE FIRE OUT OF HELL

In these days of End Time apostasy it has become commonplace for theologians to question the biblical doctrine of Hell. Doubts about the reality of Hell began in the 1800s and spread rapidly in the 20th century. Charles Haddon Spurgeon observed the growing disbelief in the reality of Hell in his day. In 1865 he said:
“There is a deep‑seated unbelief among Christians just now, about the eternity of future punishment. It is not outspoken in many cases, but it is whispered; and it frequently assumes the shape of a spirit of benevolent desire that the doctrine may be disproved. I fear that at the bottom of this there is a rebellion against the dread sovereignty of God. There is a suspicion that sin is not, after all, so bad a thing as we have dreamed. There is an apology, or a lurking wish to apologize for sinners, who are looked upon rather as objects of pity than as objects of indignation, and really deserving the condign punishment that they have wilfully brought upon themselves. I am afraid it is the old nature in us putting on the specious garb of charity, which thus leads us to discredit a fact which is as certain as the happiness of believers” (Sermons, 10, 670‑1, cited by Iain Murray, The Forgotten Spurgeon, Edinburgh: The Banner of Truth Trust, 1978 edition, p. 13).
Skepticism pertaining to Hell commonly presents itself in three general forms: questioning the nature of Hell’s fire, questioning the reality of Hell as a place, and questioning the length of Hell’s punishment. The doctrine of annihilation and the various forms of the doctrine of universalism all deny the biblical doctrine of Hell.
Another way Hell is denied is by ignoring it. In 1986, Martin Marty, senior editor of the Christian Century, spoke of the “passing of hell from modern consciousness” as “one of the major if still largely undocumented modern trends” (Marty, “Whatever Happened to Hell, The Lutheran, April 2, 1986). That same year, Christianity Today editor Kenneth Kantzer said that he had not heard a sermon on Hell in 30 years! This was confirmed by a survey of pastors of “successful” churches in the U.S., who reported that they almost never preach about hell. It is no wonder that America is no longer a God-fearing nation. A recent poll indicated that only three percent of the people believe they will go to hell.
In its June 19, 2002, edition, the Los Angeles Times published an article entitled “Hold the Fire and Brimstone,” documenting the fact that “mention of hell from pulpits is at an all-time low. Bill Faris, pastor of Crown Valley Vineyard Christian Fellowship, told the Times that though he believes in hell he doesn’t preach on it because, “It isn’t sexy enough.” The Times observed that not only does Faris not preach on hell but “his flock shows little interest in it.”
Harvey Cox Jr., a liberal religious historian and professor at Harvard Divinity School, said, “You can go to a whole lot churches week after week, and you'd be startled even to hear a mention of hell."
Bruce Shelly, professor of church history at Denver Theological Seminary, observed that hell is “just too negative” and that “churches today feel the need to be appealing rather than demanding.”
The Los Angeles Times did a search of Rick Warren’s Saddleback Church’s web site and discovered that though there are hundreds of sermons for sale on all sorts of topics, there is not even one on hell.
A recent example of the denial of Hell came from the lips of POPE JOHN PAUL II this year. He stated that Hell is not a physical place but “the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God.” He denied that Hell is a place of fiery torment and described it rather as “the pain, frustration and emptiness of life without God.” He further claimed that Hell is not a punishment imposed externally by God and that eternal damnation “is not God’s work but is actually our own doing” (Reuters, July 29, 1999).
The Pope is wrong on all counts.
According to the Bible, Hell is a place of fiery torment. Fifteen times in the New Testament, Hell is described in terms of fire. “Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44, 46, 48). Hell is described as “fire” (Mt. 5:22; 18:9), “everlasting fire” (Mt. 18:8; 25:41), “fire unquenchable” (Luke 3:17), “this flame” (Lk. 16:24), “furnace of fire” (Mt. 13:42,50), “eternal fire” (Jude 7), and “fire and brimstone” (Rev. 14:10; 20:10; 21:8).
The Lord Jesus Christ spoke more about Hell than about Heaven, and He always described Hell in terms of fire and physical torment. This is not a matter that is up for debate. As for the idea that Hell is not a punishment imposed externally by God, that is absolute nonsense. While it is man who rejects the light and salvation that God offers, it is God who imposes punishment upon those who reject salvation. Matthew 25:41, Revelation 20:15, and many other passages teach that Hell is a punishment imposed by God upon the Christ-rejecting, unbelieving sinner.
Any man who denies or questions these plain biblical facts about Hell is a dangerous false teacher.
Consider some other examples of how Hell is being denied by Christian leaders in our day.
BILLY GRAHAM: “I think that hell essentially is separation from God forever. And that is the worst hell that I can think of. But I think people have a hard time believing God is going to allow people to burn in literal fire forever. I think the fire that is mentioned in the Bible is a burning thirst for God that can never be quenched” (Graham, Orlando Sentinel, Orlando, Florida, April 10, 1983). “Jesus used three words to describe hell. … The third word that He used is ‘fire.’ Jesus used this symbol over and over. This could be literal fire, as many believe. Or it could be symbolic. God does have fires that do not burn. And also there is the figurative use of fire in the Bible. … I’ve often thought that this fire could possibly be a burning thirst for God that is never quenched. What a terrible fire that would be--never to find satisfaction, joy, or fulfillment!” (Billy Graham, A Biblical Standard for Evangelists, A commentary on the 15 Affirmations made by participants at the International Conference for Itinerant Evangelists in Amsterdam, The Netherlands, July, 1983, pp. 45‑47). “The only thing I could say for sure is that hell means separation from God. We are separated from his light, from his fellowship. That is going to be hell. When it comes to a literal fire, I don’t preach it because I’m not sure about it. When the Scripture uses fire concerning hell, that is possibly an illustration of how terrible it’s going to be--not fire but something worse, a thirst for God that cannot be quenched” (Billy Graham, interview with Richard Ostling, Time magazine, Nov. 15, 1993).
ROBERT SCHULLER: “And what is ‘hell’? It is the loss of pride that naturally follows separation from God--the ultimate and unfailing source of our soul’s sense of self-respect. ‘My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?’ was Christ’s encounter with hell. In that ‘hellish’ death our Lord experienced the ultimate horror—humiliation, shame, and loss of pride as a human being. A PERSON IS IN HELL WHEN HE HAS LOST HIS SELF-ESTEEM. Can you imagine any condition more tragic than to live life and eternity in shame?” (Schuller, Self-Esteem: The New Reformation, 1982, pp. 14-15, 93).
CHRISTIANITY TODAY: Two years after Schuller published Self-Esteem: The New Reformation, the editors of Christianity Today examined his theology and, amazingly, concluded that he is not a heretic. Consider an excerpt from an August 10, 1984, Christianity Today article by Kenneth Kantzer and Paul Fromer: “He believes all the ‘fundamental’ doctrines of traditional fundamentalism. He adheres to every line of the Apostles’ Creed with a tenacity born of deep conviction. ... he avowed belief in a literal hell. He was not sure about its location, and THE FIRE IS TO BE UNDERSTOOD FIGURATIVELY...”
This is remarkable. It is no surprise that when Robert Schuller is questioned about his theology, he says he believes the “fundamental doctrines of the faith.” Most heretics do. What Schuller will not admit is that he redefines the terminology of the faith to produce an entirely different, and false, theology. We do not need a personal interview to clarify the man’s blatant apostasy! He has plainly stated it in his books. Note that the Christianity Today interviewers said Schuller affirmed that Hell is literal, but they turn right around and admit that he believes the fire of Hell is figurative. That means Schuller DOES NOT believe Hell is literal! With spiritual watchmen like Christianity Today editors, churches have no protection. It is obvious that Christianity Today has no problem with the blatant denial of the biblical doctrine of Hell.
GORDON-CONWELL THEOLOGICAL SEMINARY: “Some students and professors at Gordon‑Conwell Theological Seminary question and even deny the historic Christian and biblical doctrine of eternal punishment, an informal discussion disclosed. Gordon‑Conwell is considered to be one of the leading evangelical seminaries in the United States … On March 6‑8, this writer and a friend stayed at a Gordon‑Conwell dormitory during a brief vacation in New England. While dining at the Gordon‑Conwell cafeteria for breakfast between 8 and 9 a.m. on Saturday, March 7, 1987, the question of the nature of the state of life after death came up in conversation. (We had had absolutely no plans to report on the conversation, but a student encouraged us to do so.) About ten people were at the table. Various religious‑affiliated academic institutions were being discussed, and someone mentioned one being run by the Advent Christian Church. Third‑year seminarian Andreas W. Reif, who is a friend of this writer, said that the Advent Christian Church denies that there is eternal punishment in hell. … Gordon‑Conwell seminarian Ed Tayler then argued in the breakfast discussion that there is no eternal torment, although Ed said he believed in heaven and hell. It was pointed out to Ed that Revelation 14:11 speaks of eternal torment. Ed then questioned whether the soul is really immortal, arguing that only God is. Andreas Reif noted that if there is no eternal punishment, there is no eternal life. Reif, however, stated that three Gordon‑Conwell faculty members denied that there is eternal punishment. Upon leaving the cafeteria, Reif related that this writer sometimes writes articles for newspapers” (David Becker, Christian News, March 23, 1987).
CLARK PINNOCK: “Pinnock has enthusiastically praised Edward Fudge’s The Fire That Consumes, a book which denies the scriptural doctrine of everlasting damnation and eternal Hell (Christian News Encyclopedia, p. 1702). The book was published by Verdict and praised by such leading evangelicals as F.F. Bruce and also Seventh Day Adventists. Pinnock writes in the March 20, 1987 Christianity Today: ‘The fire of hell does not torment, but rather consumes the wicked’” (Christian News, March 23, 1987). “Let me say at the outset that I consider the concept of hell as endless torment in body and mind an outrageous doctrine. ... How can Christians possibly project a deity of such cruelty and vindictiveness whose ways include inflicting everlasting torture upon his creatures, however sinful they may have been? Surely, a God who would do such a thing is more nearly like Satan than like God” (Clark Pinnock, Criswell Theological Review, April 2, 1990).
NEIL PUNT: “Neil Punt promotes what he calls ‘biblical universalism’ in the March 20 Christianity Today. He says that ‘Biblical universalism does not deny the scriptural teaching concerning the sin of Adam.’ He argues that ‘many verses in the Bible speak of salvation in terms of all persons.’ The Bible teaches that Jesus Christ died for all men but it also says that all those who die without believing in Christ as their only Savior from sin are lost in eternal Hell. In 1980 Eerdmans released Punt’s Unconditional Good News: Toward an Understanding of Biblical Universalism in which the author encouraged ministers not to warn sinners about the dangers of eternal damnation” (The Christian News, March 23, 1987).
FULLER THEOLOGICAL SEMINARY: “Fuller Theological Seminary’s new doctrinal statement departs from its original position on eternal punishment for believers, simply saying that the wicked shall be separated from God’s presence” (F.E.A. News & Views, Fundamental Evangelistic Association, May/June, 1971).
HERBERT VANDER LUGT, RADIO BIBLE CLASS: “A hell in which all burn in a literal fire does not allow for significant degrees of punishment. … It’s important to remember that the Bible often uses fire as a symbol” (Herbert Vander Lugt, What Does the Bible Say about Hell?, 1990).
MICHAEL VAN HORN, FORMER PROFESSOR GRAND RAPIDS BAPTIST COLLEGE AND SEMINARY, GARBC: “Perhaps this is where Michael Van Horn got his false ideas about hell. According to their 1992‑93 Catalog, he was an Assistant Professor in the Division of Bible, Religion, and Ministries at the Grand Rapids Baptist College and Seminary (GARBC approved). He was not fired, but was permitted to ‘resign’ despite his rank heresy on heaven and hell as well as on other doctrines! Before a room full of twenty‑two Michigan Pastors, Professor Van Horn denied that there was a literal heaven or a literal hell. He especially denied that there was any ‘literal fire’ in hell! Maybe that’s where the Council of Eighteen of the General Association of Regular Baptist Churches (GARBC) and its resolution‑makers got their ideas. They refused to state in their resolution on hell that there was ‘literal fire’ there. Dr. Clay Nuttall was present as a witness. In his written report, he mentioned that when a man suggested ‘literal fire’ be inserted in the GARBC resolution on hell, a Council of Eighteen member said they couldn’t do that because many of the Pastors and people of the GARBC fellowship do not believe there is ‘literal fire’ in hell. Now, if that isn’t the first step in the direction of absolute and total apostasy in the GARBC, I don’t know what is!” (D.A. Waite, Four Reasons for Defending the King James Bible, Bible for Today, 1993, pp. 20,21).

LittleladyinChrist

13th March 2007, 06:29 PM

CHURCH OF ENGLAND: “The Church of England has redefined hell. Rather than a place of eternal suffering, hell is a state of nothingness, the church said. The church said it was concerned that people were terrified into becoming believers and consequently suffered ‘searing psychological scars.’ … Nevertheless, everyone still faces a day of judgment, according to the Anglican document The Mystery of Salvation. Those who fail the test are annihilated. Hell is described as the final ‘choosing of that which is opposed to God so completely and so absolutely that the only end is non‑being’” (National & International Religion Report, Jan. 22, 1996).
BILL PHIPPS, MODERATOR, UNITED CHURCH OF CANADA: “I have no idea if there is a hell. I don’t think Jesus was that concerned about hell. He was concerned about life here on earth ... Is heaven a place? I have no idea” (Ottawa Citizen, Oct. 23, 1997).
RUSH LIMBAUGH: “Rush Limbaugh recently did an interview with The Door, his first with the Christian press. The king of radio talk discussed his personal faith in God. He also discussed his Methodist upbringing and spoke of the influence his ‘deeply religious’ father had on his thinking. He explained that his father did not believe in Hell or the book of Revelation” (The Berea Baptist Banner, Dec. 5, 1993).
AMERICAN BAPTIST CONVENTION: In a survey taken in 1987 by the American Baptist magazine, it was found that only 59.8% agreed that “Hell is just punishment for sinners.” 17.1% disagreed and 23.1% were “not sure.”
DAVID JENKINS, RETIRED ANGLICAN BISHOP OF DURHAM: “I am clear that there can be no hell for eternity‑‑our God could not be so cruel. However, I think for some people who have wasted every opportunity for redemption, there may be extinction” (The Advertiser, Australia, Dec. 15, 1993).

StevenL

13th March 2007, 06:30 PM

Could someone please specify which "hell" we're talking about here? The sheol "hell"...the gehenna "hell"....the hades "hell" or the tartarus "hell". That would really clear things up a bit.

The revelation says that the hades "hell", which is the same as the sheol "hell", will be thrown into the lake of fire (which, by the way is never called "hell" in the Scriptures, only by church people.) If the lake of fire actually is "hell", then the Scriptures say that "hell" will be thrown into "hell". ?? <scratches head> The rich man in the parable, whether literally or not, was in the hades "hell" which will be thrown in the lake of fire. So the rich man is clearly not there for "eternity." Jesus said that God would destroy both body and soul (breathing life) in the Gehenna "hell." The tartarus "hell"? Only angels are there....at least that we can know by the letter of Cephas/Peter.

If we're going to talk about "hell", let's get Scriptural. :) Original Scriptural....not King James Scriptural. That's the only way we can make sense of any discussion about "hell".

LittleladyinChrist

13th March 2007, 06:34 PM

MARK777

13th March 2007, 06:45 PM

LOL...

What Bible is that in? Mine says that God sets Himself against the wicked, never that He is "on their side".

Just out of curiousity, are you into "emergent" theology?

Can we have a fair debate without insults please, if someone is wrong, or you dont agree with their post let them know why you disagree, this is the only way to debate matters in any kind of constructive manner, plus is it Christ like to retaliate rather than disagree and give your reasons..?

We are all told to be imitators of Christ.

The scripture that says this to me, although I admit it doesnt say it exactly is here;

Rom 8:31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us?
Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things?
Rom 8:33 Who shall lay anything to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth;
Rom 8:34 who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 Even as it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
Rom 8:39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

and here.....

1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as man can bear: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation make also the way of escape, that ye may be able to endure it.

and here....

2Th 3:3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall establish you, and guard you from the evil one.
2Th 3:4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command.
2Th 3:5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patience of Christ.

StevenL

13th March 2007, 06:49 PM

...which is interesting because none of the Gospels were written in Hebrew in the first place.
Yet, assuming that He was speaking in Greek to his Jewish people (which He wasn't)Jesus still used the words Gehenna and Sheol ( or hades if you want to believe He used Greek mythological terms) to talk about what we call "hell". He never said the word "hell" ...of course. Going back to the Greek from the word "hell" will always get you sheol, gehenna, hades, or tartarus. It was ridiculous for a "scholar" to translate all these as "hell". Sheol and Gehenna are two different concepts altogether. Hades and tartarus when used as names for places come from Greek mythology.

The Gospels were lived among the Hebrews and spoken among the Hebrews originally. The ideas that we derive from them must be related to Jewish thought and not Western thought. Hades and Tartarus and Hell did not come from Hebrew thought or literature, but Greek and Germanic.

The word "hell" is a mistranslation of the Hebrew ideas for sheol and gehenna.

StevenL

13th March 2007, 06:52 PM

It is a sad thing that you cannot depend on the Bible that you have in English, and you feel that we all have to learn Hebrew and Greek to understand what God says.
Do you grasp the concept that I brought forth in that post? That you cannot translate different words with different meanings into ONE WORD. That's not scolarship. That is deception.

And yes it's sad.....but a reality to be dealt with in many cases. The Scriptures were not written in English.

Tavita

13th March 2007, 06:52 PM

But how can you teach about God's love without teaching Christ's death on the cross and how can you teach about Christ's death on the cross without teaching the reason for His death on the cross, which was so that the unrighteous could be saved from Hell?

Christ died to save us from Sin and Death.

Could someone please specify which "hell" we're talking about here? The sheol "hell"...the gehenna "hell"....the hades "hell" or the tartarus "hell". That would really clear things up a bit.

The revelation says that the hades "hell", which is the same as the sheol "hell", will be thrown into the lake of fire (which, by the way is never called "hell" in the Scriptures, only by church people.) If the lake of fire actually is "hell", then the Scriptures say that "hell" will be thrown into "hell". ?? <scratches head> The rich man in the parable, whether literally or not, was in the hades "hell" which will be thrown in the lake of fire. So the rich man is clearly not there for "eternity." Jesus said that God would destroy both body and soul (breathing life) in the Gehenna "hell." The tartarus "hell"? Only angels are there....at least that we can know by the letter of Cephas/Peter.

If we're going to talk about "hell", let's get Scriptural. :) Original Scriptural....not King James Scriptural. That's the only way we can make sense of any discussion about "hell".

Exactly, StevenL!

whateveristrue

13th March 2007, 07:08 PM

It is also an assumption that those who are already attending church are saved.... therefore, hell does not apply to them. This couldn't be farther from the truth.

crawfish

13th March 2007, 07:29 PM

Are you serious? Beloved I wish ABOVE all THINGS that thou mightest prosper and be in health that is what the word says, also Jesus Christ came that we might have a more than abundant life, and also we have been delivered from the darkness of this present evil world,, by the completed works of Jesus Christ.
"Wish" is the key word there. It is the author, John, wishing his blessings on the recipient. It's not a mandate that God will make him prosperous and healthy.

I have no problem with prosperity, may God bless you as He wills. When we expect it, though, it can lead to disappointment when we find God has other plans for us.

MARK777

13th March 2007, 07:48 PM

I too agree that is very important to go back to the original language, there has been some very poor translations from some of the Greek, it wasnt just chance that God decided to use the Greek language, it is a lot richer in terms of content and word meanings than modern day english and a lot of deep spiritual truths have been lost in translation, Im not saying that you cant learn from ASV or KJV etc, as I know Gods word is alive and powerful as it says in sig, I just think you can get a lot more richer spiritual food from the original language..

Back on topic.. I will just wrap this up for now and say that, yes I beleive there is such a place as Hell (or however we want to label it)

and I know from the scripture that it is a horrid place of torment and pain, the second death.

Although I think it is wise to teach about this place, that there is such a place, the foundational doctrines are of greater importance in my eyes, to me from what I have seen when churches make Hell the primary core teachings to the congregation, people end up like robots, out of fear they dare not do anything because of fear of this place, this to me is putting people into bondage and ensnaring people with fear rather than setting them free, this to me is negative and contrary to Gods nature as a loving merciful God.

He could have made us all robots, and respond to his every command, but he gave us free will, to chose to be for him or against him, if God is love than surely this is how he wants our relationship to be with him, not someone doing something or not doing something because they are scared that they will go to Hell if they dont, thats robot mentality.

Yes Christ taught about Hell, but we as beleivers have conquered death through the work of Christ, we are constantly instructed throughout the new testament to walk by means of the spirit, to be like Chirst, to grow in Gods grace and knowledge, to bear fruit, to bring glory to God and be the light of the world.

So I spose what I am trying to get accross is that Hell is important to be taught and understood, but salvation and regeneration, santification, justification, and all the other foundational doctrines are of greater importance to the beleiver.

kenblaster5000

13th March 2007, 08:29 PM

I feel that more preacher and pastors need to start talking about hell because they way the church is right now its seems that people are not scared of hell because are actions show otherwise.

give some feed back please.:)
I think hell and sin should be addressed in church. Paul addressed these subjects in his gospel. Those who blashemed were handed to satan to teach them not to blaspheme. People were addressed in front of the whole congregation about their sin in order to show the others fear about this sin. Not to sin. Personally, I think alot of us want to have someone we can really trust who we can confess to and be accountable to. Someone who will listen without judgment, and will not go blabbing and backbiting after learning of these things. I know I have been this for people in the past, and I have kept it between the person and I, while pointing out that it is wrong. No condemnation, just a way for people to address and get advice on these things. For, we have all sinned and have fallen short of the Glory of God. So, if people have conquered things by the power of Christ, they can also help others, no? God bless you all, and nice participating with you all.

mysterychristian

13th March 2007, 08:49 PM

Nadiine

13th March 2007, 09:11 PM

It is obvious to me that any of you who believe that preaching hell fire and damnation as a means to out-reach need to learn HOW to hold forth the word of life, not the Words of death. Jesus Christ came to heal the broken hearts and we are to follow His example, we are not to break hearts and put them into fear....! READ THE CHURCH EPISTLES WHICH ARE WRITTEN TO THE BODY OF CHRIST, many of you are stuck with the gospels which most of it is written to the BRIDE of CHRIST, Israel a different body of believers not even Christians and also in a different administration, it was still the LAW administration that wasn't fullfilled yet until Christ fulfilled it.

You all can argue all you want and believe what you want by I can gaurantee you that God does not want to SCARE people in to loving Him and obeying Him, pull all of the old testament and gospel verses you want out, they do not apply to the times you and I are in. The administration of Grace. If you haven't heard of that Administration read the church epistles it is all throughout them, paul came to make know the mystery, the administration of the mystery, the Grace period and the truth that you and I Christians are one body with God and Christ in us and great power and ability to heal the broken hearted and the ability and authority to do the same works as Jesus Christ. Preach hell fire and damnation all you want, you'll end up with people who are doing what they do not becasue they REALLY want to but becuse they feel they BETTER or ELSE, that is not TRUE LOVE or devotion, it is Obedience to God motivated by fear which is bondage, slavery, and that is the opposite of true Christianity and the basic principles of Christianity, like Grace, mercy and Love and freewill, and Goodness.

If you do not understand nor see what I am talking about you do not know enough of the rightly divided Word, which can be remedied if you are meek and humble to receive the truth.

The devil is the one who motivates by fear and guilt and His ministers who disguise themselves as ministers of light are the ones behind this evil doctrine that you all believe in.

Fear is the believers #1 enemy and guilt is #2, both cause you to be less the the best and not to succeed in life!

There are two definitions or more to words in the bible at times, and Fear many times means a great reverence and respect, not the fear that ties you up in knots and makes you scaried.

Show me where it specifically says that we are to preach HELL and I will show you more where it says that we are to LOVE and I do not me be wishy washy or baby love I mean tell the truth according to the word with a word fitly spoken in Love to the listener with the heart that all you want to do is to heal their heart and bring them CLOSER to God not further away from GOD.

HOW close of a relationship do you think you would have of your earthly Father if you were afraid of HIM????

Anyone ever had a real abusive Parent? Ask them and I bet they will say that they did not have a real good relationship with the parent they were afraid of. Relationships are based on TRUST, we are to TRUST GOD our father not fear him, as you believe. RESPECT AND REVERENCE YES but that respect is shown to GOD by our walk of loving obedience to HIS word that is how we show Him respect...
Church isn't ONLY full of the saved... church is also full of the backslidden (who may not even be Christians), and unsaved alike.

The CHURCH is where you go to get the whole counsel of God and be fed truth of God. HELL IS A TRUTH FROM GOD who gave us that information.
Do we ignore His truth? Do we cherry pick & neglect God's warning to people?

I'll quote you some of God's verses on this gospel teaching:

Mat 5:22 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mat/Mat005.html#22) But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Mat 5:29 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mat/Mat005.html#29) And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not [that] thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mar 9:45 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mar/Mar009.html#45) And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Mat 10:28 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mat/Mat010.html#28) And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Mat 11:23 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mat/Mat011.html#23) And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

Mat 23:15 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mat/Mat023.html#15) Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Mat 23:33 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mat/Mat023.html#33) [Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

2Pe 2:4 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/2Pe/2Pe002.html#4) For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Rev 20:13 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Rev/Rev020.html#13) And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Rev 20:14 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Rev/Rev020.html#14) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Now, if you feel hell should be removed from the Bible & all preaching, then that's up to you, I for one refuse to eject it from my bible.

MikeMcK

13th March 2007, 09:12 PM

Jesus Christ came to heal the broken hearts and we are to follow His example, we are not to break hearts and put them into fear....!

That's funny, Jesus said that He came to call sinners to repentance. (Matt 13:9)

Your word against His.

many of you are stuck with the gospels which most of it is written to the BRIDE of CHRIST, Israel a different body of believers not even Christians and also in a different administration, it was still the LAW administration that wasn't fullfilled yet until Christ fulfilled it.

Actually, the Bible tells us that the church is the Bride of Christ, not Israel. (2 Cor 11:2)

READ THE CHURCH EPISTLES

But why the Epistles and not the Gospels? Doesn't 2 Tim 3:16 say that all scripture is profitable?

Or are you just trying to steer us away from Jesus' teaching about Hell?

pull all of the old testament and gospel verses you want out, they do not apply to the times you and I are in.

So then, exactly when was it that God's word became irrelevant?

If you do not understand nor see what I am talking about you do not know enough of the rightly divided Word, which can be remedied if you are meek and humble to receive the truth.

LOL...

Isn't it funny that you, who are here to tell all of us that we don't know the Bible, haven't bothered to offer even one verse of scripture to back up your claims?

If you are able to divide the Bible so well, then why didn't you know that it says that the church is the Bride of Christ, not Israel?

If you're able to rightly divide the word so well, then why didn't you know that Jesus is coming back for the church as His bride and not Israel?

Fear is the believers #1 enemy and guilt is #2, both cause you to be less the the best and not to succeed in life!

Once again, God disagrees with you. Please see

Ps 110:10
Pr 1:7
Pr 9:10

Guilt is not a bad thing. In fact, it is a perfectly reasonable reaction when you're guilty, as all of us are.

Show me where it specifically says that we are to preach HELL and I will show you more where it says that we are to LOVE

If you love someone, then you'll tell them about the eternal consequences of their sin. (i.e. "Hell") Would you be willing to try a little role playing game with me? I'm not trying to bait you or trick you. I'm dead serious.
Are you up for it?

If so, then assume that I'm an unsaved person and try to share the Gospel with me.

Pretty simple, eh? Go ahead. Let's see how you present the Gospel without Hell.

MikeMcK

13th March 2007, 09:20 PM

Can we have a fair debate without insults please

I didn't insult you. I just asked a question.

I'm not interested in debating you. And if you can't even answer such a simple "yes" or "no" question, then I doubt that there would be much of a debate.

is it Christ like to retaliate rather than disagree and give your reasons..?

I see. So then, asking a question is now "retaliating"?

I think it's time for me to let you go your own way.

is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 Even as it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
Rom 8:39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

and here.....

1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as man can bear: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation make also the way of escape, that ye may be able to endure it.

and here....

2Th 3:3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall establish you, and guard you from the evil one.
2Th 3:4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command.
2Th 3:5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patience of Christ.

Not one word of which ever says that God is on the side of the wicked.

MARK777

13th March 2007, 09:31 PM

neither did i say that, brick wall comes to mind.....

New_Wineskin

13th March 2007, 09:36 PM

Nadiine

13th March 2007, 09:39 PM

Well , I usually only hear leaders speak on Hell . It tickles the ears of a lot of people . It is a sadist/masochist relationship . It also pumps up people - I am not going to Hell because I made a decision - everyone else is going to be punished for not being like me . Some of the people are kept in a perpetual state of guilt even though they were forgiven upon salvation and they are a new creation . These keep coming back because they think that they need that particular leader's validation ( like people continually seeking their parents' approval instead of simply leaving the situation ) . The others are pumped up with pride as they like the so-called "hard words" . The thing is , the same "hard words" are spoken over and over and they still think that they need them . Well , there should be another hard word to them that they are not listening .
Why are you attacking or accusing Christians on a subject like this?
IT IS PART OF SCRIPTURE, Jesus taught this principle truth... it's not about how WE take it or view it... it's about what is true & people need to know the entire truth of God.
If we didn't need to know about hell, GOD WOULD HAVE LEFT IT OUT OF THE BIBLE COMPLETELY, along with any type of judging or condemnation.

Amisk

13th March 2007, 10:23 PM

If you look back through the history of the Christian Church it appears that the teaching of God's love was part of every Christian revival that amounted to anything, the dangers of Hell were also a major part of those same services.

I have been in church most of my life or so it seems. I have watched preachers get farther and farther away from teaching anything that deals with punishment for sin. Christians have no fear of Hell. In fact here in North America most Christians can not remember when any passage of scripture talking about Hell (or sin for that matter) has been read in Sunday Morning service. I dare say that if you asked most kids (in what few Sunday Schools that are left in the North America Church) to tell you about Hell, they could not give you a Biblical answer. In fact they are more likely tell you that it is a swear word and that would be as far as most of them could go with it.

Most especially none denominational and Charismatic Churches are more interested in swaying to the emotions of the service than in hearing a sermon that talks about sin, hell or anything else that makes them uncomfortable.

The true Christian Church in North America is a dying breed with no interest in reaching the unsaved. Most new attendees come from some other church denomination. Church members seldom invite their neighbours to church or seldom read the scripture to their children and fail to know what the few Sunday School teachers in their church are teaching. (To many Sunday Schools are merely baby-sitting sessions for the duration of the church service.)

Many Christians have no desire to go to Heaven. They are too comfortable here in this world. The end result of this comfort is a lack of interested in winning the unsaved. Their ministers don't want to rock the boat by preaching about Hell, Heaven or the need for holy living because they are scared to death that they could be left without a congregation and a pay-cheque.

Until minister enter the pulpit to preach the full gospel. A gospel which must included the need for Salvation, including that there is both a Heaven to gain and Hell to shun, that only those washed in the blood of Jesus Christ will walk those golden streets, and it is our duty to reach the unsaved around us we will never have revival. We need ministers who remind us that we are not here just to have a good time by singing chorus for 3\4s of an hour every Sunday morning and listening to a sermon which tickles our ears, and until then revival will never come and the Church will continue in its death throbs as it lies molting in the grave or standing at the judgement seat of Christ.

marke

13th March 2007, 10:45 PM

I feel that more preacher and pastors need to start talking about hell because they way the church is right now its seems that people are not scared of hell because are actions show otherwise.

give some feed back please.:)
I'm with ya brother.

Problem is preachers tell people what they want to hear so they come to the service and perhaps they can talk them out of some $$$. They've sold their soul for mammon. Not all, but look at the things they spend the tithe on. This is how you can tell. Are the poor helped?

Notice they don't often mention divorce either? The seats would go empty. Instead they back people who do unGodly things as defined in the New Testament and get people riled up with issues of the world which are harmful to their soul.

People care so little about their soul that they follow blindly instead of seeking the truth contained in the New Testament.

Note so many preachers spend the tithe not on the less fortunate, but on themselves. Jesus tells us that's how you will know imposters. Problem is, there are so many imposters calling themselves "Christians" the whole church is corrupted.

It's really sad. Jesus is getting a bum rap. He is the Prince of Peace, not lies, deceit, corruption and the killer of innocent people. Yet people calling themselves "Christians" are doing and supporting these very things and it's not correct teaching.

But then again, God knew many would be deceived and lost long before and gave us free choice; to follow His Son or ministers of error.

Poor people. They would rather be told what to believe than do the work (read the New Testament) to seek out the truth themselves. So many will take their places with the transgressors. It's so sad they would rather follow wrong teaching than the teaching of Jesus.

Study the New Testament so you are not among them. I'm glad you brought up the subject.

Best wishes and God Bless.

Oracles

13th March 2007, 11:26 PM

I agree with the majority of the other members here. Teaching the Wrath of God and the reality of hell are a necessity, not an option among those who are ordained by the the Lord to minister his gospel. That precedent was established by Jesus himself, and the apostles whom he afterwards sent out into the world.

One big reason why I think that many pastors avoid the topic is fear of offending members of thier congregations. More members mean more money. Its become quite obvious to me over the years that many pastors have sold out. Of course, many are in denial but the truth can be clearly seen by those who are really searching for it.

fifi

14th March 2007, 04:29 PM

I think that maybe they are afraid they will lose members of their congregation if they preach about Hell. However, preaching about Hell certainly should be done. Jesus preached about Hell and we are to follow His example.

thank you this is what i am trying to say i am not saying that we should scare people but why is it not a topic that preachers teach on. thats what iam saying and you are so right if pastors start really talking about hell then they will lose members but what does that matter if just one person changes from the message.:)

fifi

14th March 2007, 04:30 PM

It is also an assumption that those who are already attending church are saved.... therefore, hell does not apply to them. This couldn't be farther from the truth.

amen.

fifi

14th March 2007, 04:35 PM

Why are you attacking or accusing Christians on a subject like this?
IT IS PART OF SCRIPTURE, Jesus taught this principle truth... it's not about how WE take it or view it... it's about what is true & people need to know the entire truth of God.
If we didn't need to know about hell, GOD WOULD HAVE LEFT IT OUT OF THE BIBLE COMPLETELY, along with any type of judging or condemnation.

This is so true everything that is in the bible is for us to know and to obey.:)

fifi

14th March 2007, 04:40 PM

I'm with ya brother.

Problem is preachers tell people what they want to hear so they come to the service and perhaps they can talk them out of some $$$. They've sold their soul for mammon. Not all, but look at the things they spend the tithe on. This is how you can tell. Are the poor helped?

Notice they don't often mention divorce either? The seats would go empty. Instead they back people who do unGodly things as defined in the New Testament and get people riled up with issues of the world which are harmful to their soul.

People care so little about their soul that they follow blindly instead of seeking the truth contained in the New Testament.

Note so many preachers spend the tithe not on the less fortunate, but on themselves. Jesus tells us that's how you will know imposters. Problem is, there are so many imposters calling themselves "Christians" the whole church is corrupted.

It's really sad. Jesus is getting a bum rap. He is the Prince of Peace, not lies, deceit, corruption and the killer of innocent people. Yet people calling themselves "Christians" are doing and supporting these very things and it's not correct teaching.

But then again, God knew many would be deceived and lost long before and gave us free choice; to follow His Son or ministers of error.

Poor people. They would rather be told what to believe than do the work (read the New Testament) to seek out the truth themselves. So many will take their places with the transgressors. It's so sad they would rather follow wrong teaching than the teaching of Jesus.

Study the New Testament so you are not among them. I'm glad you brought up the subject.

Best wishes and God Bless.

know hard feelings but i am a girl. But you are a 100% right know you are speaking the truth for some reason the church is full of people that are after your money and not to see your soul saved but in the end God will judge them for not speaking the truth. but also we have to stand up for our self and study the word for our self if we are not at a chruch thats speaks on hell well we have a bible so we can study all we want. But you are telling the whole truth.:)

New_Wineskin

16th March 2007, 05:35 PM

I'm with ya brother.

Problem is preachers tell people what they want to hear so they come to the service and perhaps they can talk them