Newt has an affair while bashing Clinton over Monica - And he wants your vote!!!

[marke]

How did divorce become such a little thing to modern Christianity?

More words are written about adultery than most other moral subjects, and yet many on these boards can't see the moral sickness and will vote for him anyway.

[Thomas74053]

Prov 6:16-19 NKJ

These six things the Lord hates, Yes seven are an abomination to Him:
A proud look,
A lying tongue,
Hands that shed innocent blood,
A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that are swift in running to evil,
A false witness who speaks lies,

And one who sows discord among brethren.

[GraceLikeRainFallsDown]

Newt has admitted this himself. He knows he was wrong. He is not denying anything. (unlike Clinton. . . what does "it" mean again ;) ) We all make mistakes. This mistake will probably cost him any chance of being President. Whether or not he repented and asked God for forgiveness is between him and God.

For the record, it was not adultry that Newt sought to impeach Clinton for. It was lying under oath. It does not matter what he lied about. It is breaking the law. I always find it fascinating how people forget why he was impeached for an illegal offense. I believe he was also fined heavily and disbarred as well for breaking the law. Yet, some how he is still adored by many. :scratch:

[New_Wineskin]

Newt has admitted this himself. He knows he was wrong. He is not denying anything.

He most certainly *is* denying that he was wrong . He insists that he should not be viewed as a hypocrite .

[GraceLikeRainFallsDown]

He most certainly *is* denying that he was wrong . He insists that he should not be viewed as a hypocrite .

My understanding was he is saying what he did (adultry) was wrong.

What he was after Clinton for was lying under oath. He was not after him because of his affair with Monica. That is the difference. He lead the charge to impeach Clinton for breaking the law not his affair.

They are two different issues, but people tend to just lump them together.

It does not matter what Clinton lied about. It was the fact that he lied under oath at all. It was not for national security but to save his own hide.

So, since Newt did not lie under oath that I am aware of, he was not a hypocrite.

Do you think that the Speaker of the House should ignore that the President of the United States broke the law while in office because he is having an affai? Unfortunately, adultry is not against the law that I know of in the USA. To bad, I wish it was. Two different issues.

I am in no way defending his adultry. It is a major strike against him running for office in my mind. Though it is sad that it does not seem to matter much nowadays.

[New_Wineskin]

My understanding was he is saying what he did (adultry) was wrong.

What he was after Clinton for was lying under oath. He was not after him because of his affair with Monica. That is the difference. He lead the charge to impeach Clinton for breaking the law not his affair.

They are two different issues, but people tend to just lump them together.


I wasn't . I didn't say that he was a hypocrite for going after Clinton . Gingrich is a hypocrite for expousing family values while having none , himself . Attempting to lynch Clinton is not the point . Putting himself as a spokesman for family and then not seeing any use for it in his own life is the point .



Do you think that the Speaker of the House should ignore that the President of the United States broke the law while in office because he is having an affai?


Of course , you exclude the idea of not ignoring the one while ignoring the other , yourself . Keeping silent on his own wrongs while making it seem like he upholds the truth is lie upon lie . He was to do both and not only one .



Unfortunately, adultry is not against the law that I know of in the USA. To bad, I wish it was. Two different issues.


Not in this case . The perjury was about adultry . Gingrich was initially going after Clinton for the adultry . After that , he was going after him for the perjury .



I am in no way defending his adultry. It is a major strike against him running for office in my mind. Though it is sad that it does not seem to matter much nowadays.

Government should not be involved in marraiges in any way . The constitution forbids the government to intrude on religious matters and marraige is completely religious . Now , breaking a contract is something that the government should care about and does to one extent or the other .

[GraceLikeRainFallsDown]

They should be lumped together since the lie was about the affair . Splitting hairs is essence of legalistic mindsets that want to crucify some for what they do but keep themselves from punishment for what they do themselves .



I do not think they should be lumped together. If Clinton had lied to his buddy or wife, it would have been different. Then he is just an immoral jerk but not doing anything illegal.

By lying to the courts, he committed a crime and that should not be ignored. It is not splitting hairs. Perjury is perjury. Adultry is adultry. One thing is illegal the other not. It is actually quite clear.

We will just agree to disagree on this point.

[New_Wineskin]

I do not think they should be lumped together. If Clinton had lied to his buddy or wife, it would have been different. Then he is just an immoral jerk but not doing anything illegal.

By lying to the courts, he committed a crime and that should not be ignored. It is not splitting hairs. Perjury is perjury. Adultry is adultry. One thing is illegal the other not. It is actually quite clear.

We will just agree to disagree on this point.

You were responding while I was editing my post .

Clinton has nothing to do with Gingrich desiring to be a hypocrite .

[GraceLikeRainFallsDown]

Gingrich is a hypocrite for expousing family values while having none , himself . Putting himself as a spokesman for family and then not seeing any use for it in his own life is the point .




I agree with you on this point if he considers himself a spokesperson for family values. I do NOT consider him a spokesperson for values of any kind.

[New_Wineskin]

okie dokieWe agree in part , then . :)

[JDIBe]

Quick question Marke: Did you vote for Clinton?

[Merciel]

Personally, I think they're both adulterous hypocrites.

[thunderbyrd]

i heard gingrich being interviewed on the Dobson radio program the other night. 3 times i heard him use the phrase "the magic of america".

if you really want to know gingrich's orientation, go to Constance Cumbey's blog and look in the archive for october 2006.

[twistedsketch]

Gingrich isn't good for Christian family values. He is good for policies such as spending and national security.

[Artificial Intelligence]

How did divorce become such a little thing to modern Christianity?

More words are written about adultery than most other moral subjects, and yet many on these boards can't see the moral sickness and will vote for him anyway.

It's really sad the republicans are considered the Jesus party when nothing they do even comes close to the teachings of Jesus. Yes, adultery is wrong, divorce is wrong, a lot of wrong things we can throw stones at, but for Clinton it was about lying under oath which is a serious charge in a US court of law. Lie under oath and no matter who you are you go to prison, just ask Martha Stuart she would have walked if she didn't lie. But in Clinton's case it had only shown how much he had bent the system into corruption. Anyway, whom are you saying is a Christian party here, The Democrats?(since you seem to be defending Clinton)
Both parties imo have the blood of the murdered unborn on their hands as far as I'm concerned.

[seekthetruth909]

I wasn't . I didn't say that he was a hypocrite for going after Clinton . Gingrich is a hypocrite for expousing family values while having none , himself . Attempting to lynch Clinton is not the point . Putting himself as a spokesman for family and then not seeing any use for it in his own life is the point .
Not in this case . The perjury was about adultry . Gingrich was initially going after Clinton for the adultry . After that , he was going after him for the perjury .

.

Good points! Why do people always condemn one wrong but defend another because of what political party the wrongdoer belongs to. They were both in the wrong.

Seek

[VCViking]

Quick question Marke: Did you vote for Clinton?


You mean vote for someone who supports and spearheaded KILLING BABIES like the Clintons and liberals do? Now that would be supporting "people who constantly do things that are not anything close to the teachings of Jesus..."

[Artificial Intelligence]

You mean vote for someone who supports and spearheaded KILLING BABIES like the Clintons and liberals do? Now that would be supporting "people who constantly do things that are not anything close to the teachings of Jesus..."Yet neither party, including the Republicans, have saved one single unborn baby. Yes we know how the Dems stand on the issue in full support of the slaughter (1 in 3 people murdered), but for Reps it is a nod, nod, wink, wink for the vote while people are blatantly misled to think that something is being done (or more like doing things to make sure abortion stays legal).

Reps have done nothing, they made their proposals, went through a few actions to make it look on the level but when the battle came they put their tails between their legs and ran like the wind to find a place to hide from the legal battles. Not a single baby has been saved. Meanwhile they appoint judges that support abortion!? The question is what is provoking this delusion, why do people think the Rep party is doing something that they are not… and not believing that they in fact are in favor of abortion. Certainly the last days approach, a delusion will come so that people will worship the AC, we are already seeing the prevailing edge of that delusion sweep the land in the case for the US.

[VCViking]

I agree. Neither party is perfect. The Reps haven't done enough about abortion and it makes me sick. But I will not support a party that openly supports abortion and partial birth abortion along with other ant-christian values. There are many conservative republicans who are trying.

My christian views align more with the republicans than they do with the democrats. I vote conservative, not liberal and liberal is aligned with the dems. Liberals and dems are the biggest haters of Christianity, constantly attacking it. So why would a Christian vote for them?

But I'm not on a soap box here defending reps and creating threads bashing the dems. I also never claimed the republicans to be the Christian party either. But I can say the liberal dems are anti-christian.

[Artificial Intelligence]

I agree. Neither party is perfect. The Reps haven't done enough about abortion and it makes me sick. Neither party is perfect? Which party isn’t down right evil between the two? There may be a few that are trying, but they have been put in their place long ago. Meanwhile this administration appoints pro-death judges and tries to pass legislation to overturn abortion but amazingly drops the effort just as they start then claims a great victory while not saving a single baby. If the republican party was pro-life, it would be, but it is definitely not, it is certainly pro-death in fact. It's not about not doing enough, if they did more there would be forced abortion here like in China... and the voters will buy that too with enough spin.

[VCViking]

Meanwhile this administration appoints pro-death judges and tries to pass legislation to overturn abortion but amazingly drops the effort just as they start then claims a great victory while not saving a single baby. If the republican party was pro-life, it would be, but it is definitely not,


Comparing the execution of cold blooded killers to innocent babies. Give me a break. The reason babies are not being saved by the republicans is because of the liberal democrats. They are the ones blocking and fighting legislation.

Could you imagine the public outcry if Roe vs Wade was overturned. If you and others want to align yourselves with them, then go ahead. As for me and my house, we shall serve the Lord.

[VCViking]

.

[Artificial Intelligence]

Comparing the execution of cold blooded killers to innocent babies. Give me a break. Huh? I don't quite understand what that comment is saying. I'm not sure what it is saying nor where the comparison was originated from.


The reason babies are not being saved by the republicans is because of the liberal democrats. They are the ones blocking and fighting legislation. You should actually research what you just wrote. There was no fighting, the Republicans never fought it but threw up their hands before the battle even started. A judge said you cant do that and Bush said "All righty!" That is not a fight. And again, Bush appoints judges that are pro-choice/death. Do you understand the meaning of "walk the talk!"?

Could you imagine the public outcry if Roe vs Wade was overturned. If you and others want to align yourselves with them, then go ahead. As for me and my house, we shall serve the Lord. uhh yeah that's right, I'm pro-life... I don't want to imagine, I want it to happen. Should I worry what some people may think? You summed it up there though, you are not pro-life and I also doubt most Reps are as well, some may say they are but when the conversation is drawn out the true colors start to bleed through. Not all of them, but many that I've seen that are still in the party.

[djconklin]

Good points! Why do people always condemn one wrong but defend another because of what political party the wrongdoer belongs to. They were both in the wrong.


AMEN! It's about time for Bible-believing Christians to stand up for what God said and stop listening to politicians! Christians are neither "liberal" nor "conservative." We should walk the walk of Our Lord and Savior and stopping expecting sinful men and women of either political party (and sometime seven the pastors!) to solve the sin problem. Either walk the talk or stop calling yoursrelf what you are not.

[Nadiine]

here's my vote - JUDGE NOT LEST YOU BE JUDGED. (since so many love to toss that around).

THIS IS MANY YEARS PAST. Get over it bud.:eek:

Did Newt LIE TO THE GRAND JURY UNDER OATH?
NOPE.

You need to get over this seeming anger or hatred (or whatever it is) against republicans..... seriously!
You need to do some introspection & check to make sure you do'nt have hatred or unforgiveness or bitterness lurking around in there.
You'r posts are almost ALL politically hostile against republicans - in attack mode - trying to find or air dirty laundry - as if Dems have none? :swoon: :help:


It's kinda creepy to me. :help: (unsubscribing) :wave:

[BustedFlat]

I find it very informative that you start this thread with a deception, then attempt to have us draw a misguided conclusion from your deception. You misrepresent the events of history much as the snake did to Eve in the garden:


Gen 3:1 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Gen&chapter=3&verse=1&version=kjv#1)¶Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 2 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Gen&chapter=3&verse=2&version=kjv#2)And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Gen&chapter=3&verse=3&version=kjv#3)But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Gen&chapter=3&verse=4&version=kjv#4)And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Gen&chapter=3&verse=5&version=kjv#5)For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.


notice the pattern, ½ truth, lie, deception, then the missguided conclusion ,,, ye shall be as gods.


How did divorce become such a little thing to modern Christianity?

More words are written about adultery than most other moral subjects, and yet many on these boards can't see the moral sickness and will vote for him anyway.

It's really sad the republicans are considered the Jesus party when nothing they do even comes close to the teachings of Jesus.

And to set the record straight I do not recall anyone bashing Clinton over his improper sexual acts, outside his marrage, with an intern placed in the care and protection of the offices of his government for her education. The impeachment and political fallout was all around his asking said intern to lie about herself in the trial to hear the charges brought by Paula Jones and to get her friend Linda Trip to lie about it as well. Trip made tapes of Miss Lewinsky's attempts and turned them over to Ken Star. The continued perjury about the whole affair in the Ken Star grand jury is what brought the impeachment. Team Clinton chose a scorched earth policy in which anyone who deviated from the party line was roasted in the press to the point of their almost complete personal destruction.


On the other hand Newt Gingrich is on his third wife. When you compare that to Solomon's record it does not come off as very much, I guess he needs to try harder.
Newt has never publicly lied about the divorces, or the affair that led to the second, nor denied them. He has acknowledged that he is not proud of his domestic record and feels he has failed to live to the standards he would like to achieve for himself. I can sympathize with him in that I find that daily I have failed to live up to the standards that Jesus asks me to strive for, although I continue to strive.


@page { size: 8.5in 11in; margin: 0.79in } P { margin-bottom: 0.08in } --> As to Republicans being “The Jesus Party”. I would consider it be blasphemy if they claimed it for themselves. It is hung on them by their political rivals who's goal is to scare off the secular voter.


A search of the Republican party platform shows Jesus is not used even once and God is used 3 times, once in the preamble: “May God bless Ronald Reagan and the country he loved.” and twice in the body.


The Democratic Platform cite God 7 times in the body.



Moral sickness in an individual is an issue that the individual needs to work out for themselves, the first part being accepting there is a problem there (confession) and the asking of forgiveness.
Moral sickness as an institution is not so easy to deal with. It is ingrained in the very fiber of the institution.


From the 2004 Democratic Party Platform (http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:CWAErzmeKfAJ:a9.g.akamai.net/7/9/8082/v002/www.democrats.org/pdfs/2004platform.pdf+democratic+party+platform&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a):
Because we believe in the privacy and equality of women, we stand proudly for a woman's right to choose, consistent with Roe v. Wade, and regardless of her ability to pay. We stand firmly against Republican efforts to undermine that right. At the same time, we strongly support family planning and adoption incentives. Abortion should be safe, legal, and rare. From the 2004 Republican Party Platform (http://www.gop.com/media/2004platform.pdf):

Promote adoption & abstinence, not abortion clinic referrals
We support the President's strong efforts to promote adoption through increased tax incentives and bonuses to states that place older children in permanent family homes, as well as his efforts to promote foster care by increasing the allocation of funds for preventive and family services.
Each year more than three million American teenagers contract sexually transmitted diseases, causing emotional harm and serious health consequences, even death. We support efforts to educate teens and parents about the health risks associated with early sexual activity and provide the tools needed to help teens make healthy choices. Abstinence from sexual activity is the only protection that is 100 percent effective against out-of-wedlock pregnancies and sexually transmitted diseases, including sexually transmitted HIV/AIDS. Therefore, we support doubling abstinence education funding. We oppose school-based clinics that provide referrals, counseling, and related services for contraception and abortion.
Source: 2004 Republican Party Platform, p. 82-83
Human Life Amendment to the Constitution
We must keep our pledge to the first guarantee of the Declaration of Independence. That is why we say the unborn child has a fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed. We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and we endorse legislation to make it clear that the 14th Amendment's protections apply to unborn children. Our purpose is to have legislative and judicial protection of that right against those who perform abortions. We oppose using public revenues for abortion and will not fund organizations which advocate it. We support the appointment of judges who respect traditional family values and the sanctity of innocent human life.
We oppose abortion, but our pro-life agenda does not include punitive action against women who have an abortion. We salute those who provide alternatives to abortion and offer adoption services, and we commend Congressional Republicans for expanding assistance to adopting families and for removing racial barriers to adoption.
Source: 2004 Republican Party Platform, p. 86
Would I vote for Newt if he runs? I am not sure, there is much yet to be reaveled between now and next year when the primarys will be held.


Would I vote for anyone who allows the above Democratic platform to stand? No!


How did supporting a political party and their agenda become a lesser problem than the domestic problems of an individual.
To spell it out for you, one is systemic, the other a single individuals problem.

In Jesus




BustedFlat

[djconklin]

Did Newt LIE TO THE GRAND JURY UNDER OATH?
NOPE.

No, he lied to you. He claimed to be what he was not.

Scooter Libby lied to a grand jury when he was under oath too.

[VCViking]

Originally Posted by VCViking http://www3.christianforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=32655758#post32655758)
Comparing the execution of cold blooded killers to innocent babies.


Huh? I don't quite understand what that comment is saying. I'm not sure what it is saying nor where the comparison was originated from.


I got that from you. You posted about "pro-death judges" and I only assumed you meant those judges that support the death penalty.

[VCViking]

You should actually research what you just wrote. There was no fighting, the Republicans never fought it but threw up their hands before the battle even started. A judge said you cant do that and Bush said "All righty!" That is not a fight. And again, Bush appoints judges that are pro-choice/death. Do you understand the meaning of "walk the talk!"?


You're kidding, right? So the dems weren't blocking and filibustering all his pro-life choices?:sigh:
</IMG>

[VCViking]

You summed it up there though, you are not pro-life...


Ummm...where do you get that I'm not pro-life? No where in my statement do I suggest that I'm not pro-life.


Originally Posted by VCViking http://www3.christianforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=32655758#post32655758)
Could you imagine the public outcry if Roe vs Wade was overturned. If you and others want to align yourselves with them, then go ahead. As for me and my house, we shall serve the Lord.

The "them" I was refering to are the ones that would create the "public outcry", the liberals, not the ones trying to overturn Roe vs Wade.

[VCViking]

Excellent posts by Nadiine and BustedFlat.

[Artificial Intelligence]

Ummm...where do you get that I'm not pro-life? No where in my statement do I suggest that I'm not pro-life.You said “if you and others want to align yourself with them” meaning those that want to put a stop to abortion. Your argument was that ending abortion would “cause an outcry”. You may say you are pro-life but your statement clearly contradicts that. Pro-life is a term only pertaining to the stop to all abortion, nothing else.

As for choosing a judge that is for the death penalty has no baring. Abortion is the issue and there are plenty of judges that support the death penalty as well as having a solid pro-life stance, this does in no way contradict. So no, that statement makes no sense .

The dems had no power, the meager partial birth abortion bill went through and was going into law, the dems had a judge rule that it was unconstitutional and the reps dropped the ball and left it at that. It is not unconstitutional, many judges and layers agree that it is perfectly legal. The reps knew this, they did nothing about it, they had no intention of it EVER being law. If that was their intention than they would have fought, but they did absolutely nothing at all… but the deception made them look good since most were eager to support their party no matter what. Read that article I posted (the link), maybe it will all click for you.

[VCViking]

You said “if you and others want to align yourself with them” meaning those that want to put a stop to abortion. Your argument was that ending abortion would “cause an outcry”. You may say you are pro-life but your statement clearly contradicts that. Pro-life is a term only pertaining to the stop to all abortion, nothing else.


And that's what I'm for, stopping all abortion. The outcry would be by the left, the liberal dems, not by me. The "them" are the liberal democrats. I explained that in my post #34. Talk about twisting someone's statement. I'm done discussing this topic because your statements show you read what you want to, not what some is actually saying.

[Artificial Intelligence]

And that's what I'm for, stopping all abortion. The outcry would be by the left, the liberal dems, not by me. The "them" are the liberal democrats. I explained that in my post #34. Talk about twisting someone's statement. I'm done discussing this topic because your statements show you read what you want to, not what some is actually saying.

And again, why is this thread not in politics.Well that becomes even more confusing. If you were saying "them" as pro-choice group, why would you suggest I "align" with them?


Could you imagine the public outcry if Roe vs Wade was overturned. If you and others want to align yourselves with them, then go ahead. As for me and my house, we shall serve the Lord.Why would I align myself with "them" that are among the outcry when Roe V.s Wade is overturned? Where did I ever say that I was pro-choice in my posts to lead you to say that? I'm not a liberal democrat (i.e Liberal Democrat= socialists, communists etc...), fully the other side of the tracks, even most of the Reps are far to liberal for me, many of them are no different than the dems especially on the issue of abortion.
Maybe you can rephrase that sentence to be more clear concerning what you really mean if it is different than what others perceive it to say?

Why is this thread not in politics? Because this thread is directed at non-denomination posters/readers. There is no reason that non-denoms cannot discuss most any issue here amongst ourselves. Among many of the non-denom churches this is an issue (not just abortion but the thread in general). Repeating every post calling for it's trmoval will not help, it's just one of the many issues we have talked about here for years and not going to change any time soon regarding what we can or cannot discuss.

[Cris413]

I'm not a liberal democrat (i.e Liberal Democrat= socialists, communists etc...), fully the other side of the tracks, even most of the Reps are far to liberal for me, many of them are no different than the dems especially on the issue of abortion.

I have several questions for you that I ask in all sincerity:

1) Why is it that no matter what the Thread Topic is...it always comes to this one issue for you?

2) What is this ultra-conservative party you belong to and when do you estimate they will come to power in Washington..... any time soon?

3) Who have you voted for and what have they done to resolve this issue?

4) What is your solution to the abortion problem?

5) What programs are you actively participating in to stop abortion? How much time to give to these programs?

6) Do you really consider that if abortion were illegal it would actually stop abortions?

Before you ask...let me be perfectly clear...

I AM PRO-LIFE.

I do not think for one moment any true believer would be anything but pro-life. I simply cannot understand the discord this issue causes among believers. I think it's pretty clear we are all on the same side of the fence here.

Ahhhh....here's the kicker....whom do we vote for? Whom do we waste our vote on? Or do we sit at home on election day?

Somehow it always comes back to this...Dems vs Reps and lets toss in some powerless 3rd party that would solve all the issues if only they could!

Each of us, who have submitted our lives to the Lord should do as we are called by Him. That may very well mean some are called to dedicate their lives to eradicating abortion. Some may be called simply to remain in prayer. Or some to volunteer at a pregnancy crisis center and such.

We are all called to LOVE. I can do all of these things but if I do not love....

All of us standing before the throne want to hear "Well done good and faithful servant!"

Now please keep this in mind as we all decide who's a better christian based on who we vote for.

I believe in my heart there are wonderful brothers and sisters out there that have devoted their lives to Christ. Each seeking His will and answering as He calls them into service for the Kingdom business and who glorify God.

I feel it is the heart of many who participate in this forum... I have been touched by many posts and have admired the commitment to God, the passion and the intellect of many...including you.

You might ask..how do I live up to the standard? I personally fail miserably in some way each and every day. Praise God...each and every day is a new day full of grace and mercy and He who began a good work in me will see it to completion.

God bless

[marke]

Prov 6:16-19 NKJ

These six things the Lord hates, Yes seven are an abomination to Him:
A proud look,
A lying tongue,
Hands that shed innocent blood,
A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that are swift in running to evil,
A false witness who speaks lies,

And one who sows discord among brethren.
Funny, that sounds like the Bush Administration doesn't it?

[marke]

Newt has admitted this himself. He knows he was wrong. He is not denying anything. (unlike Clinton. . . what does "it" mean again ;) ) We all make mistakes. This mistake will probably cost him any chance of being President. Whether or not he repented and asked God for forgiveness is between him and God.

For the record, it was not adultry that Newt sought to impeach Clinton for. It was lying under oath. It does not matter what he lied about. It is breaking the law. I always find it fascinating how people forget why he was impeached for an illegal offense. I believe he was also fined heavily and disbarred as well for breaking the law. Yet, some how he is still adored by many. :scratch:
Kind of like "W" huh?

[marke]

.

[marke]

I do not think they should be lumped together. If Clinton had lied to his buddy or wife, it would have been different. Then he is just an immoral jerk but not doing anything illegal.

By lying to the courts, he committed a crime and that should not be ignored. It is not splitting hairs. Perjury is perjury. Adultry is adultry. One thing is illegal the other not. It is actually quite clear.

We will just agree to disagree on this point.
NO -- Let's not agree to disagree.

You are talking about worldly things and we are talking about spiritual things. Spiritual corruption.

The OB asked how did divorce become such a non-issue. You've turned it into defending Newts actions.

He sets himself up as having the moral fiber to judge others and we discover, as Jesus tells us, his actions betray him.

I just don't understand why you defend one side of the coin and go for the throat on the other side.

Frankly, if I did something as stupid as Clinton, admitting it to the world would not be my first choice either. At least the only ones harmed were not innocent.

God Bless.

[marke]

I agree with you on this point if he considers himself a spokesperson for family values. I do NOT consider him a spokesperson for values of any kind.
Good, I was concerned for a moment.

God Bless.

[marke]

Quick question Marke: Did you vote for Clinton?
What does the bible tell you about getting involved in issues of the world?

Cost you your soul it tells you.

Think politics qualifies? I do.

[marke]

Gingrich isn't good for Christian family values. He is good for policies such as spending and national security.
I get my security from God.

Would you vote for the anti-christ out of fear too? Not me.

If you ignore the things Jesus tells us to watch for to know who serves whom, you know don't you, that birds of a feather flock together.

If things like this don't turn your stomach that might be something to think about.

Jesus came to free us from fear. Trust God, not people who tell you one thing and do the other.

God bless.

[marke]

Don't you recall? We are to be of "One Mind". Not one mind that says it's OK to discard the teachings of Jesus and do as you want and another mind that actually tries to conform to the teaching of Jesus. ONE MIND.

Discord. The only discord on these forums are those who don't want to conform themselves to the Word and would rather make up things they DO want to believe and shout down those who use the New Testament as their reference as to which actions are Christian and which actions are not. That's the only discord I see.

Remember the thread "Where exactly did Jesus give His followers permission to kill?"

Not a SINGLE LINE OF SCRIPTURE was presented to support a Christian killing or harming another person and yet SO MANY defended their right to take a human life and cause harm to another human. The thread got thousands of views and NOT ONE LINE OF SCRIPTURE supported the people who wanted to believe a Christian can harm another person. Those who wanted to go against scripture fought tooth and nail and in the end, they STILL believed what they wanted to believe. You've got to feel sorry for them.

The Lord says "Many are called, but few are chosen". The reason is the evil one want to cheat us using lies and deceit to giving up our salvation and many will be lost to these lies and deceit.

Yes, discord is good concerning wrong teaching and there is a lot of it on these forums.

Yes, I do believe those calling themselves "Christians" should act like it. Wouldn't you think?

I mean after all, the person we profess as our Lord said it Himself. "Don't be deceived, many will come in my name, but you will know them by their fruits". Get it. ACT LIKE IT.

If a person calls themselves a "Christian", but the actions are those you would associate with anti-Christ actions, according to the Lord Jesus, is this person actually a Christian or something else?

Discord is good. It keeps people from following blindly. Hopefully, one day evil will be seen as evil and we will all be of one mind and there will be no discord.

Good luck and God Bless.

[marke]

Actually, this is a moral issue. Something like the kettle calling the pot black and those who want to ignore it.

Jesus tells us to watch actions. This person has a lot of support here and what is the reason for it? Why are so many defending him? Isn't wrong wrong anymore? Why are we even having this conversation. Shouldn't we all be in agreement instead of discord?

Do you recall the OP? How did divorce and adultery become so unimportant? That was the OP?

It's those defending wrong actions which make this political. If wrong was wrong there would be no discord and you wouldn't be calling this political, but instead a spade a spade and that would be that.

That's the problem with POP Christianity. Everyone wants to believe what they want to believe and what's in the New Testament doesn't count.

Your actions DO count. "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood..." And what's the rest? Powers....

"Many are called, but few are chosen". Isn't it time we start focusing on what it takes to be among the chosen rather than focusing on issues of the world?

God bless.

[cac]

The truth of the matter is that this type of stuff doesn't cross party lines, there is crookedness in all the partys. Nobody has a monopoly on it. Remember to that Jesus is no part of this world and not conected with any of our worldly govenment system's.

I personally do my best not to get involved in the politics of this world, when you get right to it, all fall short of the glory of God. I also belive we are saved through faith alone, not works. I believe that all that belive in God and his precious son Jesus Christ and want to learn to do there will, will be saved. Lets face it none of us are perfect.

I myself have many vices, I smoke cigars, I even have the habbit of watching adult films. These are weaknesses I have carried most of my life, but I also believe that God can save me and cure me of my weaknesses when the proper time comes. I do also deal with Bipolar disorder, depression and anxiety and alot of the times low self asteam. But I do my best not to complain about it and live one day at a time.

[Cris413]

Don't you recall? We are to be of "One Mind". Not one mind that says it's OK to discard the teachings of Jesus and do as you want and another mind that actually tries to conform to the teaching of Jesus. ONE MIND.

Discord. The only discord on these forums are those who don't want to conform themselves to the Word and would rather make up things they DO want to believe and shout down those who use the New Testament as their reference as to which actions are Christian and which actions are not. That's the only discord I see.

Remember the thread "Where exactly did Jesus give His followers permission to kill?"

Not a SINGLE LINE OF SCRIPTURE was presented to support a Christian killing or harming another person and yet SO MANY defended their right to take a human life and cause harm to another human. The thread got thousands of views and NOT ONE LINE OF SCRIPTURE supported the people who wanted to believe a Christian can harm another person. Those who wanted to go against scripture fought tooth and nail and in the end, they STILL believed what they wanted to believe. You've got to feel sorry for them.

The Lord says "Many are called, but few are chosen". The reason is the evil one want to cheat us using lies and deceit to giving up our salvation and many will be lost to these lies and deceit.

Yes, discord is good concerning wrong teaching and there is a lot of it on these forums.

Yes, I do believe those calling themselves "Christians" should act like it. Wouldn't you think?

I mean after all, the person we profess as our Lord said it Himself. "Don't be deceived, many will come in my name, but you will know them by their fruits". Get it. ACT LIKE IT.

If a person calls themselves a "Christian", but the actions are those you would associate with anti-Christ actions, according to the Lord Jesus, is this person actually a Christian or something else?

Discord is good. It keeps people from following blindly. Hopefully, one day evil will be seen as evil and we will all be of one mind and there will be no discord.

Good luck and God Bless.
Yes...You will know a tree by the fruit it bears. That also being the fruits of deception, lying and distortion along with the seeds of discord. No...discord is not good.

I have a tendency to be a bit more open to one's viewpoint when it is given in love and truth with the intention of rightful correction and edification.

[Cris413]

Funny, that sounds like the Bush Administration doesn't it?
Look up hypocrisy in the dictionary...please

[marke]

Comparing the execution of cold blooded killers to innocent babies. Give me a break. The reason babies are not being saved by the republicans is because of the liberal democrats. They are the ones blocking and fighting legislation.

Could you imagine the public outcry if Roe vs Wade was overturned. If you and others want to align yourselves with them, then go ahead. As for me and my house, we shall serve the Lord.
You seem to have no concern for the children who are loved and wanted. Either that or you have tunnel vision and don't want to see anything but what you want to see.

Where exactly in the New Testament are you told to stand up for the unwanted and unborn. NOWHERE. You are told however that God controls everything and this world and the things in it are his department, not yours. Remember, not a sparrow falls without His consent. Not your consent, but Gods concent.

Let God run His world and you'll discover Jesus told the truth, the Kingdom of Heaven is within.

God considers lies and deceit sins too you know. You're ignoring a multitude of sins by those you support because of the one issue they mouth support for that you think is your concern. There is a bigger picture.

Haven't you noticed, the Bush Administration has destroyed more families by their policies than all the abortions in this country in the last century.

If you are going to stand against the killing of innocent people, shouldn't you be advocating impeachment instead of support for the policies of the Bush Administration to remove the greatest harm to humanity?

This is way off the OP, but it needs to be said. How is it you support one and condemn the other. If one is wrong, shouldn't the other be as well?

Good luck and God Bless.

[Cris413]

.

[marke]

In case you didn't notice. The republicans controlled all segments of government until the last election. They had the opportunity to push through bills to do as you want and they didn't. Their actions betray them. The drug companies profited. The credit card companies profited. The war machine profited from their actions. It's just the people of America that didn't. Just like they didn't give $8 billion a year to christian causes after they conned you into voting for them. You know them by their actions, not their words. Why ignore it.

Wrong is wrong no matter how many times we are told it is not. God's commandments are written in our hearts. That's why so many are sick. They support wrong things against their soul and God tries to get their attention. They take a pill instead and wonder why they are still sick. It's sad.

Good luck and God bless

[marke]

AMEN! It's about time for Bible-believing Christians to stand up for what God said and stop listening to politicians! Christians are neither "liberal" nor "conservative." We should walk the walk of Our Lord and Savior and stopping expecting sinful men and women of either political party (and sometime seven the pastors!) to solve the sin problem. Either walk the talk or stop calling yoursrelf what you are not.
BROTHER. THANK YOU. That needed to be said.

God bless

[twistedsketch]

Haven't you noticed, the Bush Administration has destroyed more families by their policies than all the abortions in this country in the last century.
Oh yes, because those tax cuts take so much money out of families and cause divorces. :scratch:

[twistedsketch]

I get my security from God.

Would you vote for the anti-christ out of fear too? Not me.

If you ignore the things Jesus tells us to watch for to know who serves whom, you know don't you, that birds of a feather flock together.

If things like this don't turn your stomach that might be something to think about.

Jesus came to free us from fear. Trust God, not people who tell you one thing and do the other.

God bless.
Sounds like you're very afraid of conservative policies. And it sounds like you are very quick to label someone an anti-christ, particularly someone who just doesn't fit the bill. The anti-christ has no regard for the first amendment, which contains the freedom to worship God without government harassment. Gingrich loves it as much as anybody. You sound very afraid of conservative bogeymen.

[marke]

Yes...You will know a tree by the fruit it bears. That also being the fruits of deception, lying and distortion along with the seeds of discord. No...discord is not good.

I have a tendency to be a bit more open to one's viewpoint when it is given in love and truth with the intention of rightful correction and edification.
Thank you Cris413.

I note your kindness and appreciate your reminder.

God bless.

[marke]

Oh yes, because those tax cuts take so much money out of families and cause divorces. :scratch:
The innocent families in Iraq who didn't attack us might qualify.

The 80 percent + divorce rate in the US officers corps might qualify.

The 1 in 3 vets who come back with mental problems might qualify.

The 71,000 brain injured vets might qualify.

All the marriages that can't survive a loved one gone to war for a year and a half might qualify.

All the children whose lives are harmed by a parent gone when they need them most might qualify.

All the people harmed by Katrina who are ignored by both government and Churches might qualify.

I guess it really doesn't matter anyway. God opens the eyes of whom He wishes.

God Bless.

[twistedsketch]

So Bush sent people to war with the intent of destroying families? Pathetic.

Think of what he wanted to prevent by making the call to go into Iraq. On 9/11, nearly 3,000 families were destroyed on a single morning due to a single attack alone. There was intelligence that three countries had which implied that a dictator with a chip on his shoulder was obtaining nuclear weapons - the first of which destroyed 140,000 families. Put those two together, and you have a major concern for the safety of hundreds of thousands of more families. And yet, you're telling me that Bush is out to destroy families? Pathetic. Truly pathetic.

[Cris413]

Thank you Cris413.

I note your kindness and appreciate your reminder.

God bless.

I note the above empty words.

Yes...I try to have a right heart and speak in kindness when discussing thoughts, viewpoints and my beliefs.

I try my best to follow the example of Jesus and His commandment to love one another.

This is why my heart is so heavy over these threads and posts.

Understand, marke, I do not judge you because your opinion differs from mine. Let God decide between me and thee...what I do judge is the use of deception, advocating lying, spreading the seeds of discord, a haughty spirit, a lack of respect and most of all spewing hatred while claiming the love of Jesus Christ...hypocrisy.

These posts, on several occasions, have actually brought me to tears when this war is called murder and our President a murderer. Can we not see, for even a moment, not only how hate-filled these words are but that it is insult and disrespects every soldier who has died and them that lay their lives on the line each and every day to keep us safe and free!

I lost any possibility of being open-minded to your views when you use deception to get people to read your threads and you actually advocated lying to get one's self out of trouble...

Listen, friend, The "other guy" knows the Bible inside and out. The "other guy" is the Father of all lies. The "other guy" is the master of deception. The "other guy's weapons also include distortion, distraction, twisting the truth and the seeds of discord...

Proverbs 13:3 He who guards his mouth preserves his life, but he who opens wide his lips shall have destruction.

Proverbs 13:5 A righteous man hates lying. But a wicked man is loathsome and comes to shame

Proverbs 13:17 A wicked messenger falls into trouble, But a faithful ambassador brings health (NKJV)


:prayer:
Cris

[Izdaari]

Odd to find a political thread here, but ok...

What I'm looking for in a President isn't a national pastor or even a spokesman for 'family values' using the 'bully pulpit', but someone to execute public policy. And for the most part, I very much like Newt's policies. OTOH, I don't believe he could win the general election (based on the Rasmussen polls), so I don't think nominating him is a very practical idea. But if he's nominated, he'll have my vote, and with enthusiasm.

[cac]

I normally don't get involved in politics but i will say this much, for quite some time the republicans have had the presidency and control of both the house and senate, but yet they have still done nothing for the poor and middle class, they could have done something without the democrats because they had control. when it would become time to pass legislation there votes would have out numbered the democrats. On top of this one of there own members, and i forget who it was, said they only worked part time. For the money they were being paid they should have been working full time and maybe overtime to boot.

Another thing i seem to notice is that the republican part y definately favors the rich. Especially when it comes to tax breaks. The poor and middle class deserve much more of the percentage they pay in back, instead the ones who need it the least get a higher percentage of what they paid in back. Hardly fair.

In the end though all partys have problems, when it comes to problems within partys nobody really truthfully has a monopoly. I really believe we should follow Jesus advice, by being his followers we should be no part of the world just as he is no part of the world. In real truthfulness, and i admit that even i am not the best at following this. All of our worldly governments are currently under the influence of satan the Devil. Im not saying that there aren't any good people mixed within our government, there are good people and evil people mixed, it's like that in all groups though. As far as war, I don't suport war, I blame war though on crooked world leaders, not our troops. I suport our troops in the sence that I wish them a safe return home.

In the end though we all fall short many times in life, none of us are perfect. Another thing too, people on here who are accused of lying more than likely aren't trying to lie. It's just that we all have a way of taking bible verses differently and not all are correct. Therefore more than likely there are many misunderstandings, even though anything that is not correct is also a lie I don't belive that most on here are deliberate. I personally though have better things to do than to throw accusations at individual people. I do my best to speak in general only. The things that I say on different subjects is simply the way I understand them, Peace be with you all.:crossrc:

[Artificial Intelligence]

I have several questions for you that I ask in all sincerity:

1) Why is it that no matter what the Thread Topic is...it always comes to this one issue for you?

2) What is this ultra-conservative party you belong to and when do you estimate they will come to power in Washington..... any time soon?

3) Who have you voted for and what have they done to resolve this issue?

4) What is your solution to the abortion problem?

5) What programs are you actively participating in to stop abortion? How much time to give to these programs?

6) Do you really consider that if abortion were illegal it would actually stop abortions?How so? I’ve been posting here for over three years now (have an older account I lost track of and haven’t used it in years), and in all that time I have maybe participated in five topics in the non-denom forum concerning abortion. I’ve also posted a few times in other forums here a few times such as in the current events forum and the political forums, though abortion for me is not a political issue but a moral one.

What’s my party? It’s displayed on my party icon. I have belonged to it since I was 18 years old. Well at least on the state level until they managed to grow nationally… and are still growing faster than other parties are.

From the site www.constitutionparty.com (http://www.constitutionparty.com)
The mission of the Constitution Party is to secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity through the election, at all levels of government, of Constitution Party candidates who will uphold the principles of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States. It is our goal to limit the federal government to its delegated, enumerated, Constitutional functions and to restore American jurisprudence to its original Biblical common-law foundations.

“and when do you estimate they will come to power in Washington..... any time soon?” I’m not sure what you are getting at there. I feel that this statement is intended to ridicule perhaps? I don’t vote for winners (to thus become a winner) or vote for the underdog, I vote my conscience regardless of the temporal outcome. If I vote Rep or Dem to be a winner or looser, it is the same outcome regardless of which party I vote for; it’s the same party from what their actions show. So I vote for the ones that are aligned with what I desire to be accomplished, and my vote certainly does count.

Who have I voted for? On for what seat of Government? The Presidency? Last one I supported was Michael Peroutka. I am hoping that Jim Gilchrist may be taking up the CP nomination this time around, I’m uncertain if this will happen at present but we should know pretty soon.

Solution is obvious, end abortion. I remember where I was the day that abortion was legalized just as I remember where I was when the twin towers fell. If the twin towers 9/11/01 was a great abortion, compared to the abortion rate we would loose those towers daily, year end and year out since back when abortion was legalized.

What programs? Yes I’ve signed petitions, attended conferences, voted for pro-life candidates, belong to a pro-life only political party etc…

Yes, I do believe that if abortion was illegal once again that it would stop abortions. Maybe not all abortions, but enough. I also believe that it would stop the government from funding/promoting the abortion mills and stop the export of these abortion mills to other countries. I simple cannot support a party that allows this to happen, it is a wicked thing, indeed.

It’s all about saving the children from being murdered, not about how I look in regards to whom I say I voted for or what not. To speak of the issue raises awareness for those not consumed in their own circumstances or at least may be informed enough to realize what they are doing or supporting is wrong thus sparking true repentance. I really don’t care what Newt, Bush or Clinton does on their personal time, but when they make action to govern this nation and blatantly contradict what the bible teaches about such things as “you shall not murder” then it is apparent that they are not the right person for that position. Actions always speak louder than words, the book of James is a good read regarding this.

[VCViking]

You seem to have no concern for the children who are loved and wanted. Either that or you have tunnel vision and don't want to see anything but what you want to see.

Where exactly in the New Testament are you told to stand up for the unwanted and unborn. NOWHERE.

Good luck and God Bless.


Please make some sense.

And I don't do "luck". I'm not into superstition.

[VCViking]

You are told however that God controls everything and this world and the things in it are his department, not yours. Remember, not a sparrow falls without His consent. Not your consent, but Gods concent.

Let God run His world and you'll discover Jesus told the truth, the Kingdom of Heaven is within.




Try following your own advice and let go of the republican/conservative bashing. Don't worry about their issues and all the problems. Sit back and relax. God is in control. No need for you to get involved. That's what you said about abortion, right?

"shakes head in disgust"

[Cris413]

How so? I’ve been posting here for over three years now (have an older account I lost track of and haven’t used it in years), and in all that time I have maybe participated in five topics in the non-denom forum concerning abortion. I’ve also posted a few times in other forums here a few times such as in the current events forum and the political forums, though abortion for me is not a political issue but a moral one..
I haven't been on this forum long, but again...it seems this is such an issue and I rarely see you comment on anything else. Which, by the way, I would love to read your thoughts on other issues..

But again, I question, if you feel abortion is a moral issue and not a political issue...why all the political argument?

It breaks my heart to see this much argument over a subject that really should not be a point of contention among believers...again...it seems to be more the politics of the thing than the actual biblical principle in discussion...of which there is no argument

What’s my party? It’s displayed on my party icon. I have belonged to it since I was 18 years old. Well at least on the state level until they managed to grow nationally… and are still growing faster than other parties are.

From the site www.constitutionparty.com (http://www.constitutionparty.com/)

The mission of the Constitution Party is to secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity through the election, at all levels of government, of Constitution Party candidates who will uphold the principles of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States. It is our goal to limit the federal government to its delegated, enumerated, Constitutional functions and to restore American jurisprudence to its original Biblical common-law foundations.
Thank you for the link. I'll check it out.
I looked at your icon and still had no clue...so I asked.

“and when do you estimate they will come to power in Washington..... any time soon?” I’m not sure what you are getting at there. I feel that this statement is intended to ridicule perhaps?
I meant no ridicule. I have no idea what this party is about. Who belongs to it. What they've accomplished. The United States is a 2 party system. When will this up and coming 3rd party have any power? Will it be anytime soon? Simple question.
I don’t vote for winners (to thus become a winner) or vote for the underdog, I vote my conscience regardless of the temporal outcome. If I vote Rep or Dem to be a winner or looser, it is the same outcome regardless of which party I vote for; it’s the same party from what their actions show. So I vote for the ones that are aligned with what I desire to be accomplished, and my vote certainly does count. This is a noble statement...but to what effect? Yes your vote counts..but realisticly what does it accomplish in a two party system? Other than to say..I voted for the really good guy who had absolutely no chance of winning.

Of course you have noted that I am Republican. Not so much because of the politicians, but the platform. Yes...many would say that this is nothing more than lip service and nothing gets done...but again I do the best I can with what is available in a two party system (by design of our Founding Fathers)...I certainly am not going to support a platform that openly and staunchly supports abortion, gay marriage and who's agenda is keep the down trodden down. My fear is that to cast a vote (and believe me I have considered it) for a 3rd party candidate would in fact be placing a vote for the larger of 2 evils and I simply cannot take that chance.

Who have I voted for? On for what seat of Government? The Presidency? Last one I supported was Michael Peroutka. I am hoping that Jim Gilchrist may be taking up the CP nomination this time around, I’m uncertain if this will happen at present but we should know pretty soon.
I have no idea who these gentlemen are. What they've accomplished or the strides they've made toward seeing their platform come to fruition. If I knew who they are..and what they've done..perhaps I could be more supportive of them.

Solution is obvious, end abortion. I remember where I was the day that abortion was legalized just as I remember where I was when the twin towers fell. If the twin towers 9/11/01 was a great abortion, compared to the abortion rate we would loose those towers daily, year end and year out since back when abortion was legalized.Are you talking about where you were when Roe v Wade was decided January 22, 1973? You were like 4 years old? How cool if you were that politically aware at age 4. I was 13 and yes...I remember the impact and the conversations, but I was not quite that policitally aware then. When I did become "aware" I was very active in the Right to Life Org for many years.

"End abortion" is not a solution...it's the end result. The solution is the means by which the the end result is accomplished.

Abortion, terrorist attacks, murder, decaying morality an such are acts of the evil one. The best any of us can do, including leadership, is lead our lives according to God's Word, in the example of Jesus always striving to be more pleasing to God today than we were yesterday. And pray, pray and then pray some more. We are not of the world but we are called to participate in it.

What programs? Yes I’ve signed petitions, attended conferences, voted for pro-life candidates, belong to a pro-life only political party etc… The point I was trying to make with this question was to convey the importance of not only stating what we feel is right but also the actions we take toward our beliefs. Putting feet to faith. It's pretty easy to sit at our keyboards and spout all the wrongs we see...but quite another to actually do something about it.

Yes, I do believe that if abortion was illegal once again that it would stop abortions. Maybe not all abortions, but enough. I also believe that it would stop the government from funding/promoting the abortion mills and stop the export of these abortion mills to other countries. I simple cannot support a party that allows this to happen, it is a wicked thing, indeed.What is "enough"?? One abortion is one too many as far as I'm concerned. I agree government funding/promoting abortion mills is absolutely evil. Again, this is why I have to be careful with my vote...to not take even the slightest chance that a party that openly endorses these agendas be voted into office. So yes...this is a very big issue for me. Such an issue... that I refuse to consider what is "noble" and useless over what is effective in the cold, harsh reality of our political system.

It’s all about saving the children from being murdered, not about how I look in regards to whom I say I voted for or what not. To speak of the issue raises awareness for those not consumed in their own circumstances or at least may be informed enough to realize what they are doing or supporting is wrong thus sparking true repentance. I really don’t care what Newt, Bush or Clinton does on their personal time, but when they make action to govern this nation and blatantly contradict what the bible teaches about such things as “you shall not murder” then it is apparent that they are not the right person for that position. Actions always speak louder than words, the book of James is a good read regarding this I agree and would I love to see an ultra-conservative party bring the country about and return to the biblical foundations with which our Founding Fathers intended---ABSOLUTELY--but I don't think it's going to happen--sadly. So we do what we can with what the world hands us. Keeping our eyes on the prize, putting feet to faith and praying for the swift return of our Lord. In the meantime - I think we should all focus a little more on the Christian agenda and less on the political agenda.

Believe me when I say I have learned my lesson regarding approaching political issues in this forum. Didn't take me too long to come to the understanding it is more destructive than it is beneficial.

Sadly...that just may mean that my participation in CF may be quite limited from here on.

God bless

[Artificial Intelligence]

Securing the borders is a political issue, voting for politicians that are against abortion and actually follow through with their words to stop it is a moral issue. Euthanasia is a moral issue. Keeping serial murderers and habitual pedophiles in prison is a moral issue. These are all issues that are dealt with within the confines of state and federal self government which was established in this land. As a Christian it is my duty to approve or disapprove of a politician which represents the people through the power of the vote. You may think it is a two party system but I only see one actual party; the Democrat and Republican party is the same party, they both head in the same direction: enact the same policies.

I don’t go along with the idea of accepting what the world hands me, when life hands me lemons and they say “make lemonade” I chuck the lemons back.

Oh and yes, I have memories back to diaper changes… pretty embarrassing :sick:

[twistedsketch]

I normally don't get involved in politics but i will say this much, for quite some time the republicans have had the presidency and control of both the house and senate, but yet they have still done nothing for the poor and middle class, they could have done something without the democrats because they had control. when it would become time to pass legislation there votes would have out numbered the democrats. On top of this one of there own members, and i forget who it was, said they only worked part time. For the money they were being paid they should have been working full time and maybe overtime to boot.

Another thing i seem to notice is that the republican part y definately favors the rich. Especially when it comes to tax breaks. The poor and middle class deserve much more of the percentage they pay in back, instead the ones who need it the least get a higher percentage of what they paid in back. Hardly fair.
Well, what you're seeing there is the party platform. Conservatives believe the best way to help the poor and the middle class is not through the government, but through the market. The only thing the government does/can do if you're going to follow that philosophy is cut taxes. Now, in 2001 the Republicans cut taxes across the board. Now, you will say that the rich got higher cuts, and there is definitely a bad side to that. Part of that comes with inherent corruption in Congress, since everyone in Congress is rich anyway and whether you are a Republican or a Democrat you will protect your own wallet when considering appropriations and tax laws. But if you're a good conservative, you will also recognize and hope that when a rich man receives a tax cut, he does good things for the economy with that money, such as invest it to start a new business. This brings in more jobs, and with more jobs, you have less people on the streets. When you have a recession as the US did as Bush began his presidency, he did very sensible things for getting the economy out of the tank: He cut taxes and he didn't touch entitlement spending. Granted, this is an emergency procedure and he didn't bring in small government reforms that I would like to have seen after the national economy picked back up, but that's a move that did a lot more for the poor and the middle class than you are giving him credit for.

As a conservative, I would rather see my money go directly to a Christian charity rather than to a Washington bureaucrat. More of my money will go to the cause I donated to, and that private charity will do a much better job of carrying out the work. So I say the smaller the government, the better.


All of our worldly governments are currently under the influence of satan the Devil. Im not saying that there aren't any good people mixed within our government, there are good people and evil people mixed, it's like that in all groups though.
I'm not entirely sure that the devil is the primary influence there. He's going to tempt a lot of people up there sure, but your basic assumption seems to go flat against Romans 13:1-7 and pretty much every vision in the book of Daniel. God is ultimately in charge of who takes power where, and every leader is supposed to be an agent of His justice. If they are not, like many have not been, He will chastise or judge them accordingly.

[Artificial Intelligence]

Well, what you're seeing there is the party platform. Conservatives believe the best way to help the poor and the middle class is not through the government, but through the market. The only thing the government does/can do if you're going to follow that philosophy is cut taxes. Now, in 2001 the Republicans cut taxes across the board. Now, you will say that the rich got higher cuts, and there is definitely a bad side to that. Part of that comes with inherent corruption in Congress, since everyone in Congress is rich anyway and whether you are a Republican or a Democrat you will protect your own wallet when considering appropriations and tax laws. But if you're a good conservative, you will also recognize and hope that when a rich man receives a tax cut, he does good things for the economy with that money, such as invest it to start a new business. This brings in more jobs, and with more jobs, you have less people on the streets. When you have a recession as the US did as Bush began his presidency, he did very sensible things for getting the economy out of the tank: He cut taxes and he didn't touch entitlement spending. Granted, this is an emergency procedure and he didn't bring in small government reforms that I would like to have seen after the national economy picked back up, but that's a move that did a lot more for the poor and the middle class than you are giving him credit for. Actually it’s all a cross between Reaganomics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaganomics and the typical Democrat form of tax and spend policy with big government and out of control spending… more so than when the Democrats were in control. The problem is there really is not enough money with the tax cuts to support the bloated government and mad spending so they print money like mad which is more so based on oil rather than gold as it once was.

The problem with that, with printing money, is that the bubble will in fact burst at some point, but it is obvious that Bush is a Globalist so that just means the US is headed for government consolidation with surrounding countries such as happened in Europe but maybe to a greater degree in North America’s case. It may or may not happen while Bush is in office, but his successor will undoubtedly be in on the game plan be he Democrat or Republican. I just wonder who is really in control… funny how both Kerry and Bush were both members of Skull and Crossbone.

[Cris413]

Securing the borders is a political issue, voting for politicians that are against abortion and actually follow through with their words to stop it is a moral issue. Euthanasia is a moral issue. Keeping serial murderers and habitual pedophiles in prison is a moral issue. These are all issues that are dealt with within the confines of state and federal self government which was established in this land. As a Christian it is my duty to approve or disapprove of a politician which represents the people through the power of the vote. You may think it is a two party system but I only see one actual party; the Democrat and Republican party is the same party, they both head in the same direction: enact the same policies.

I don’t go along with the idea of accepting what the world hands me, when life hands me lemons and they say “make lemonade” I chuck the lemons back.

Oh and yes, I have memories back to diaper changes… pretty embarrassing :sick:

There are A LOT of important issues on the table. Evil will wax worse and worse. It's kind of a mixed blessing. The increase in evil is heartbreaking. Prophesy will be fulfilled and each day we are a step closer to our Lord returning.

I don't believe I said we "accept" the world but the world is what it is and we can only work with what we have to work with...Again. Pray, pray and then pray some more.

You remember diapers? Wow!

I have no doubt you are an intelligent man, that you are well taught and that you love the Lord. This is why, I personally, would like to see more from you on a spiritual level rather than a political level. I believe it would be of great benefit to many!
;)
God bless
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[Nadiine]

(whisper) Pssssssssssssssssssst: we're in 2007 now ;)

[twistedsketch]

Actually it’s all a cross between Reaganomics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaganomics and the typical Democrat form of tax and spend policy with big government and out of control spending… more so than when the Democrats were in control. The problem is there really is not enough money with the tax cuts to support the bloated government and mad spending so they print money like mad which is more so based on oil rather than gold as it once was.

The problem with that, with printing money, is that the bubble will in fact burst at some point, but it is obvious that Bush is a Globalist so that just means the US is headed for government consolidation with surrounding countries such as happened in Europe but maybe to a greater degree in North America’s case. It may or may not happen while Bush is in office, but his successor will undoubtedly be in on the game plan be he Democrat or Republican. I just wonder who is really in control… funny how both Kerry and Bush were both members of Skull and Crossbone.
Again, his economic solution, like many, was only patchwork and he should have cut spending after the national economy recovered.

[oliveplants]

Closed for staff review.

[oliveplants]

This thread is to remain closed, but the OP has been reposted in Ethics and Morallity. http://www.christianforums.com/t5100217-newt-has-an-affair-while-bashing-clinton-over-monica-and-he-wants-your-vote.html#post33544807
If you'd care to discuss the topic further, click on the above link.

God bless,
Olive