More ethics probes for republicans??? No, can't be not these fine "christian" people

[marke]

The first paragraph reads:

WASHINGTON - Republicans could face ethics investigations for contacting U.S. attorneys about pending cases, a jarring political development only four months after ethical lapses helped cost the GOP control of Congress.

Read the whole story at:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070307/ap_on_go_co/congress_prosecutors

How did the republicans become the "christian" party? There seems to be some confusion in what is Christian and what is not.

FYI - Torture, lies, deceit have nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus. Don't be deceived.

God bless.

[Nadiine]

The first paragraph reads:

WASHINGTON - Republicans could face ethics investigations for contacting U.S. attorneys about pending cases, a jarring political development only four months after ethical lapses helped cost the GOP control of Congress.

Read the whole story at:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070307/ap_on_go_co/congress_prosecutors

How did the republicans become the "christian" party? There seems to be some confusion in what is Christian and what is not.

FYI - Torture, lies, deceit have nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus. Don't be deceived.

God bless.
Hmmm, last I checked in America, people are INNOCENT BEFORE PROVEN GUILTY.:scratch:

I had no idea that an allegation in a report PRIOR to an investigation rendered people guilty. I thought you of all people would be more aware of our rights & freedoms as Americans Marke... :doh::eek: tsk tsk

[Eusebios]

marke,
We all have ethics problems man, it's called sin and none of us are exempt. Although, as I stated in another thread, I tend to agree with you on these issues, it is in large part unproductive to keep making these types of posts as they seem to designed to provoke.
Please take a look at the prayer of St. Ephraim in my signature.
Peace,
Don

[Kelly]

Sheesh, somebody's on a soap box. ;)

I vote republican for one reason only. Their stance (at least as stated) on abortion. Could abortion also be lowered through helping the poor out of their situation (it's perceived that dems are pro-poor, right), perhaps, but that looks just as difficult a battle.

[Nadiine]

Sheesh, somebody's on a soap box. ;)

I vote republican for one reason only. Their stance (at least as stated) on abortion. Could abortion also be lowered through helping the poor out of their situation (it's perceived that dems are pro-poor, right), perhaps, but that looks just as difficult a battle.
Ya, I agree w/ you - for me it's a little more than only abortion... I genally consider it a 'lesser of 2 evils"...
The alternative is so far against my spiritual beliefs, I can't vote any other way unless someone closer to my Christian values runs for office. (I don't see that happening anytime soon).

I think what happens is, people can falsely run & tell the public what they want to hear, then when they get into office, corruption & greed/power kick in & they end up turning out like the rest - I think it's a majority; not minority. (that & practically ALL politicians are completely out of touch with COMMON PEOPLE.):sigh:
They're upper class-elitists then we wonder why they don't get it? lol :doh:

I don't trust that govt. (any party) can FIX the mess that's taken this long to accumulate w/ the division getting worse.
It's at gridlock and I expect nothing to get done anymore.

GOD is our hope! And it will take Him to set everything right.
People need to be more in prayer than attacking Govt. officials w/ personal agendas. That's a Christian's duty.

[andross77]

The first paragraph reads:

WASHINGTON - Republicans could face ethics investigations for contacting U.S. attorneys about pending cases, a jarring political development only four months after ethical lapses helped cost the GOP control of Congress.

Read the whole story at:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070307/ap_on_go_co/congress_prosecutors

How did the republicans become the "christian" party? There seems to be some confusion in what is Christian and what is not.

FYI - Torture, lies, deceit have nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus. Don't be deceived.

God bless.
So, you don't like Republicans...

I don't know the historical reasons why the republicans became the "Christian" party, but today i would assume it's because they are generally conservative whereas democrats are generally liberal.

For example, democrats typically support the murder of innocent children (otherwise known as "abortion" to be less offensive) and same-sex marriages or rights. Both of these go against Scripture and would be considered "un-Christian".

Is that the explanation you were seeking? And i agree with an earlier poster that said we are all sinners. We are all fallen before God and make stupid decisions all the time. So you think just b/c some Republicans are being investigated for wrong-doing that makes all Republicans bad or non-Christian? Or you think b/c of this Republicans are guilty of more sin than Democrats? I don't understand where you are going with this post :scratch:

Republicans and Democrats are equally sinful people. Neither is more sinful than the other and neither is inherintly more Christian than the other. There can be unbelieving Republicans and Saved Democrats....

[VCViking]

Both parties have ethical problems. Give it a rest. :sigh:

[VCViking]

How did the republicans become the "christian" party? .


Because baby-killing liberal democrats don't fit the bill.

[Nadiine]

So, you don't like Republicans...

ya think? :P

I love how people try to point out the evils of the party - as if their own are donning shiny halo's. lol NEITHER PARTY is clean; they never have been, they never will be.

But notice how they stuck up for Clinton's lying & other wrongs... the point is, wrong is wrong on both sides.
Maybe more time on our knees w/ our hands folded would keep our fingers from being pointing at others?

Good advice for all of us.

[elsbeth]

I vote republican for one reason only. Their stance (at least as stated) on abortion. Could abortion also be lowered through helping the poor out of their situation (it's perceived that dems are pro-poor, right), perhaps, but that looks just as difficult a battle.
This is how the Republicans became the "Christian" party. People decide their votes on one (or few) issues on which the Republicans have learned to say the right things. They didn't do anything to try and reverse Roe v. Wade did they? But lots of people still vote on this issue, instead of voting on what politicians actually DO. I vote Democratic because I think that what they actually Do hurts fewer people, and may actually help a few. I don't vote for anyone on what they say, alone.

[Nadiine]

This is how the Republicans became the "Christian" party. People decide their votes on one (or few) issues on which the Republicans have learned to say the right things. They didn't do anything to try and reverse Roe v. Wade did they? But lots of people still vote on this issue, instead of voting on what politicians actually DO. I vote Democratic because I think that what they actually Do hurts fewer people, and may actually help a few. I don't vote for anyone on what they say, alone.
One of the very first things Bush did when he hit office was sign a bill to stop abortions for oversees military (something to that effect), and he signed a bill to stop partial birth abortion.
Do they bother telling you those 2 facts?

It was LIBERAL women's groups that worked fast & furiously to get that bill halted tho. So partial births aren't banned still even tho he signed a bill.

It was Clinton that passed partial birth which imo is an abomination. Billy Graham pleaded w/ him not to pass that as I hear the story of it...?

It isn't something you just hop in & undo - it takes alot more work than that from lower levels & we know it.

Democrats are the ones pushing church & state separations that weren't there in our country's beginnings... I'm at a loss as to how that's doing more GOOD for the country as God's slowly removed even from Christmas & Easter? Remove God from a nation & expect it not to fall into depravity? (I know, define depravity; our opinions will be very different.. however, I do base mine on scripture).
The ACLU's track history is proven and I won't ever vote democratic due to who supports them.

It's not democrats anymore that are in office, IT'S EXTREME LIBERALS. I'd actual WELCOME a real democrat - one like Kennedy was.
Today, you vote democrat, & you put hardcore liberals into office. NO WAY will I be a part of that.

[elsbeth]

Partial birth abortions is probably the ONLY thing I agree with that our President has done. My point was that politicians have learned how to say the right buzz words to get CHristians to vote for them, and that it doesn't really matter what they say, it's what they do that should matter.

[Kelly]

it doesn't really matter what they say, it's what they do that should matter.

Well, what have dems done towards halting abortions?

Exactly.

I'm picking the lesser of two evils in this regard - it's clear that most democrat politicians are pro-choice at the least, others blatantly pushing state paid abortions.

[elsbeth]

Well, what have dems done towards halting abortions?

Exactly.

I'm picking the lesser of two evils in this regard - it's clear that most democrat politicians are pro-choice at the least, others blatantly pushing state paid abortions.
The Democrats haven't done anything about it. But they didn't claim (or insinuate) that they were going to do so. That's my point: why vote for someone because they say the right words, even if they aren't going to do anything about it?

[Kelly]

That's my point: why vote for someone because they say the right words, even if they aren't going to do anything about it?

Because I can't give my vote to someone who is pro-abortion as a part of their platform.

[Nadiine]

The Democrats haven't done anything about it. But they didn't claim (or insinuate) that they were going to do so. That's my point: why vote for someone because they say the right words, even if they aren't going to do anything about it?
People who are PRO abortion are alot more apt to make further laws that are supportive of other things, like Kerry said he was - during Kerry's campaign, he said he wanted to make abortions FREE for the poor....
that means I pay for others abortions becuz they cant' afford it.

I will not vote for a President in support of abortion unless that's the only candidate I have to vote for at all. (again a lesser of 2 evils which is happening more & more these days)...

The issue isn't if they don't do anything, it's that they're more apt to change or do something against it than someone who's blatantly FOR it.

[fishon]

Well, what have dems done towards halting abortions?

Exactly.

I'm picking the lesser of two evils in this regard - it's clear that most democrat politicians are pro-choice at the least, others blatantly pushing state paid abortions.

If you vote for the "lesser of two evils," you're still voting for evil.

I am a 60 yr. old Ronald Regan Republican, and I have never missed a vote. This may very well be the first time I will not vote for anyone for President.
fishon

[Nadiine]

If you vote for the "lesser of two evils," you're still voting for evil.

I am a 60 yr. old Ronald Regan Republican, and I have never missed a vote. This may very well be the first time I will not vote for anyone for President.
fishon
I've actually thought about that very thing myself. But I HAVE TO vote in this election - do you want the WORSE evil in??? I dont! I'm gonna vote & the Lord will know what my motive was.
Turn this around too, God could easily say, you knew who the worse person was, yet you did NOTHING to halt them.

We have to realize that God knows our hearts & we can only do the best we can with what we have. My JOB as a believer is to work against the enemy & that's what I'll do. What's worrysome to me is that I'm afraid our selections for leaders have become so poor.

I don't like much of any candidates of either party! But Dems have a worse selection than we do imo! - a media created nobody who's done absolutely NOTHING & covered up a muslim background, "Osama" & Hillary. (no comments other than I think she could run for Prison Warden & stand a good chance of winning):help:

Imo, either side that wins should worry this country! :swoon: :help:
:groupray: :groupray: :crossrc: :prayer: :groupray: :bow:

[Kelly]

If you vote for the "lesser of two evils," you're still voting for evil.

I am a 60 yr. old Ronald Regan Republican, and I have never missed a vote. This may very well be the first time I will not vote for anyone for President.
fishon

But not voting, or throwing your vote away on a third party candidate (like I did TWICE for Perot) is like giving a vote to those who don't at least profess to stand for something.

[Nadiine]

But not voting, or throwing your vote away on a third party candidate (like I did TWICE for Perot) is like giving a vote to those who don't at least profess to stand for something.
exactly, I've already had to vote this way in an election in my state.
Being in Cal., I had to vote for Arnold Schwartzenager becuz the other alternative was also pro choice and worse for the job.
Besides, Calif. is NOT going to be the first state to ban abortion!! Imo, that issue wasn't even at play here... others became the central issue.

I'm actually glad I did vote for him now, there was a bill that came before him for gay marriage and he veto'd it, saying 'the majority of the people are not for this'.
So... who knows what might of happened if the other guy had won!???
But just for that, it made me feel alot better about my vote.

In the end, I don't see how man can fix the messes we're in anymore. All we can do is plug up the holes to prolong our floating in the boat we're in.
I think God is the only solution - thru PRAYER. :groupray:

[elsbeth]

So because the Republicans say the right buzz words you vote for people who don't do anything about the issues they "buzzed about, who have morals problems themselves, who are very pro Big Business and the wealthy to the detriment of poorer people and programs to help them, and who got us into starting a war? Yeah, makes real sense.

[Merciel]

So because the Republicans say the right buzz words you vote for people who don't do anything about the issues they "buzzed about, who have morals problems themselves, who are very pro Big Business and the wealthy to the detriment of poorer people and programs to help them, and who got us into starting a war? Yeah, makes real sense.

I would honestly be surprised if the Democrats were also not pro Big Business. Of course, perhaps nothing they say is only said to win votes. I'm a pessimist though who thinks both parties are more interested in votes than anything else (and those in both parties who really want to make a difference have to deal with lots of bureaucracy and opposition that will make them unable to uphold their promises to their voters).

[jcsforme]

republicans are much better than democrats. democrats have no faith in God. they only claim to be christian to scramble for our votes.

[fishon]

[quote=Nadiine;32607053]I've actually thought about that very thing myself. But I HAVE TO vote in this election - do you want the WORSE evil in??? I dont! I'm gonna vote & the Lord will know what my motive was.
Turn this around too, God could easily say, you knew who the worse person was, yet you did NOTHING to halt them.

We have to realize that God knows our hearts & we can only do the best we can with what we have. My JOB as a believer is to work against the enemy & that's what I'll do. What's worrysome to me is that I'm afraid our selections for leaders have become so poor.

I don't like much of any candidates of either party! But Dems have a worse selection than we do imo! - a media created nobody who's done absolutely NOTHING & covered up a muslim background, "Osama" & Hillary. (no comments other than I think she could run for Prison Warden & stand a good chance of winning):help:

Imo, either side that wins should worry this country!

Nadine,
First, MAKE IT a great worship day.

I use to think that it was my God given duty to vote. But that just isn't true. Men and Women have died in many wars, so that I can have the privilege of voting, but Jesus didn't die so I could vote. And Jesus certainly didn't die on that awful cross so I could vote for the "lesser of two evils."

Nadine, you wrote: do you want the WORSE evil in???
Let's look and decide what evil is, in the context of the candidates and the issues.

1. Is the enviormental issues and the stances any candidates take on them evil?

2. Is more taxes verses less taxes really an evil issue?

3. Is when we get out of Iraq a matter of evil?

4. Is whether we have opened or closed borders really a matter of evil?

5. Should we or should we not talk to Iran because to not to or do is evil?
Well, you get the idea.

1. Is abortion evil [sin]?

2. Is practicing homosexuality evil [sin]?

3. Is gay marriage evil [sin]?

Here is my point. The first 5 questions above, to me are not about evil. They are about differences of opinion.

However, the last 3 are by biblical definition sin.

The first 5 are for the most part differences between the Dems. and the Reps., but not evil issues. So, take your pick.

The last 3 are evil [sin] issues, and let's say, you have to vote for Rudy--the only difference between Rudy and Hillary is the first 5--and they are not evil. However, Rudy and Hillary are the same on the last 3 [sin]. So how would Rudy be less evil than Hillary? Hillary and Rudy disagree on opinion issues, but not on evil [sin] issues. And we haven't even addressed Rudy's adultry. And as far as I know, Hillary is not an adultress?

And now we have Newt screaming that he is not a hypocrite. WAIT. Wasn't there a little hypocrisy done to the 1st and 2nd wives?

I probably won't vote for the first time in my life.

I guess I will just depend on Jesus to take care of me and my family--whoever is in the Whitehouse.

fishon

[Nadiine]

[quote=Nadiine;32607053]I've actually thought about that very thing myself. But I HAVE TO vote in this election - do you want the WORSE evil in??? I dont! I'm gonna vote & the Lord will know what my motive was.
Turn this around too, God could easily say, you knew who the worse person was, yet you did NOTHING to halt them.

We have to realize that God knows our hearts & we can only do the best we can with what we have. My JOB as a believer is to work against the enemy & that's what I'll do. What's worrysome to me is that I'm afraid our selections for leaders have become so poor.

I don't like much of any candidates of either party! But Dems have a worse selection than we do imo! - a media created nobody who's done absolutely NOTHING & covered up a muslim background, "Osama" & Hillary. (no comments other than I think she could run for Prison Warden & stand a good chance of winning):help:

Imo, either side that wins should worry this country!

Nadine,
First, MAKE IT a great worship day.

I use to think that it was my God given duty to vote. But that just isn't true. Men and Women have died in many wars, so that I can have the privilege of voting, but Jesus didn't die so I could vote. And Jesus certainly didn't die on that awful cross so I could vote for the "lesser of two evils."

Nadine, you wrote: do you want the WORSE evil in???
Let's look and decide what evil is, in the context of the candidates and the issues.

1. Is the enviormental issues and the stances any candidates take on them evil?

2. Is more taxes verses less taxes really an evil issue?

3. Is when we get out of Iraq a matter of evil?

4. Is whether we have opened or closed borders really a matter of evil?

5. Should we or should we not talk to Iran because to not to or do is evil?
Well, you get the idea.

1. Is abortion evil [sin]?

2. Is practicing homosexuality evil [sin]?

3. Is gay marriage evil [sin]?

Here is my point. The first 5 questions above, to me are not about evil. They are about differences of opinion.

However, the last 3 are by biblical definition sin.

The first 5 are for the most part differences between the Dems. and the Reps., but not evil issues. So, take your pick.

The last 3 are evil [sin] issues, and let's say, you have to vote for Rudy--the only difference between Rudy and Hillary is the first 5--and they are not evil. However, Rudy and Hillary are the same on the last 3 [sin]. So how would Rudy be less evil than Hillary? Hillary and Rudy disagree on opinion issues, but not on evil [sin] issues. And we haven't even addressed Rudy's adultry. And as far as I know, Hillary is not an adultress?

And now we have Newt screaming that he is not a hypocrite. WAIT. Wasn't there a little hypocrisy done to the 1st and 2nd wives?

I probably won't vote for the first time in my life.

I guess I will just depend on Jesus to take care of me and my family--whoever is in the Whitehouse.

First off, fishon... WHY ARE THEY DRUDGING UP HISTORY FROM YEARS AGO? This whole issue of adultery is long past gone - bringing it up imo is STUPID & redundant.
THEY ALL COMMIT sins & bads... I don't give a rip about Newt's past issue, he apologized & stepped down. It should be OVER with now.

It IS my duty fishon - sitting silent when you have some [God-given] power to help steer things imo, isn't being a good Soldier on this earth as God puts us here as His "hands and feet". (just as God used Israel to fight His battles).

The Evil is not just in THOSE ISSUES tho; it's the entire far left liberal worldview in general.
It isn't just the issues you raise, it's their propensity to gravitate towards being against most all biblical principles we [conservative Christians] accept as truth.
I have no hatred towards anyone personally; I don't know them & some of my own friends are democrat - we won't go into political/religious subjects.

So, even if it were a race of Rudy vs. Hillary, you best believe I'm voting Rudy. Yes, even if it's only for his stance on "non evil" issues.
I have ALWAYS hated the "robin hood" policies of the left - TAKE FROM THE 'NASTY' WEALTHY PERSON (who works hard & makes a success of themselves) & GIVE THEIR PROFIT TO THE MANY WHO REFUSE TO WORK OR TO OTHERS THEY SHOULDN'T BE RESPONSIBLE TO PAY FOR IN LIFE.
Penalizing people who work hard & reap the rewards of that labor. That's just the tip of the iceburg w/ what I find repulsive in their worldviews.

I respect your right to carry your opinion, I just don't share it even with your eloquent argument. This democratic party has turned LIBERAL, not democratic.
And liberals overall are working furiously against the principles I believe are taught in our bibles.
That's still a huge difference from the Repub. party that may be having some meltdown issues according to your view of them. (ie. Newt).

Again, we won't have perfection, BUT THE REPUBS AREN'T OFFENSIVELY WORKING AGAINST BIBLICAL PRINCIPLES (that we understand them as) & OUR AMERICAN HERITAGE WE ONCE HELD.

For that, I will continue doing all I can to work against the liberal party who is taking our rights & righteousness (imo) out of this country.
It's the ACLU that's fighting furiously to silence churches from speaking the truth about sin that might "offend" gays etc.
If that's what you're comfy with, by all means, sit on your hands. Enjoy the result when it happens & be sure not to complain about it.

Sorry, I just can't agree w/ your position or reasoning for it - not when I see that party aggressively undermining what shreds of morals & rights we still do have.
& all I have to say here are about POSITIONS - I have said nothing personally hateful of individuals. I have equal right to my positions & equal right to vote against what I find harmful to the country & will continue to do so. :angel:

[Cris413]

If you vote for the "lesser of two evils," you're still voting for evil.

I am a 60 yr. old Ronald Regan Republican, and I have never missed a vote. This may very well be the first time I will not vote for anyone for President.
fishon
I totally understand what you're saying. The thought has crossed my mind as well....that there might not be any candidate worth voting for.

My concern in not voting is that it would be in effect the same as casting a vote for the greater evil.

Please vote.

As always....:prayer: :prayer: :prayer:... for this next election and our political leaders.

God bless


</IMG></IMG></IMG>

[Cris413]

This is how the Republicans became the "Christian" party. People decide their votes on one (or few) issues on which the Republicans have learned to say the right things. They didn't do anything to try and reverse Roe v. Wade did they? But lots of people still vote on this issue, instead of voting on what politicians actually DO. I vote Democratic because I think that what they actually Do hurts fewer people, and may actually help a few. I don't vote for anyone on what they say, alone.

This brings to mind, all issues aside, the basic message of the two parties as I heard all through the speeches and debates last election.

Dems - hand-out
Reps - hand-up

I found it interesting that Kerry likened himself to JFK...but it seems JFK's immortal words "Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country" has been lost to this party.

My entire family has been Dem for as far back as I know of. My heart breaks that they still believe in the party values of years ago that simply no longer exist...just ask Zel Miller.

I also find the concept interesting that the more enabled the voting public is to stay down ..the larger the Dem voting base. (except Hollywood of course...hmmm...I wonder where they fall into the evil rich category?)
:scratch:
</IMG>

[Cris413]

GOD is our hope! And it will take Him to set everything right.
People need to be more in prayer than attacking Govt. officials w/ personal agendas. That's a Christian's duty.

:thumbsup: Worth a repeat!

[seekthetruth909]

Double post

[Nadiine]

This brings to mind, all issues aside, the basic message of the two parties as I heard all through the speeches and debates last election.

Dems - hand-out
Reps - hand-up

I found it interesting that Kerry likened himself to JFK...but it seems JFK's immortal words "Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country" has been lost to this party.

This is worth repeat too. Exactly my issue. The sad fact is that the hand-OUT is coming from extremely hard working people who have made some success in their businesses.

What's missed is, if you just hand it out to people who don't reinvest & capitalize on it to make MORE, economy grows sluggish & people BECOME DEPENDANT - IT'S A CYCLE. it also promotes socialism - there's no incentive to work HARDER when your $$ is syphened out & thrown to others.
This country gives people the RIGHT to make good money, it's not a Right to have other's money. :mad: :sick: :doh:

[Cris413]

I would honestly be surprised if the Democrats were also not pro Big Business. Of course, perhaps nothing they say is only said to win votes. I'm a pessimist though who thinks both parties are more interested in votes than anything else ).
What really burns my toast is that people seem to miss the concept that business...big or small... creates jobs.

Who would I rather see get a break...the man who signs our paychecks so he can continue to sign our paychecks so we can continue to pay the taxes that support the down trodden...

(and those in both parties who really want to make a difference have to deal with lots of bureaucracy and opposition that will make them unable to uphold their promises to their voters).
I agree...this is a huge problem. So much valuable time is wasted in attack and defense...nothing gets accomplished.

However, it does seem to me the Dems do waste more time attacking causing the Reps to waste more time defending.

What I would love to see this election is more focus on each parties agenda and less attacking of the other parties values.

Unfortunately, the Spin Doctors realize there is much more media attention given to bloody politics.
:doh:
</IMG>

[seekthetruth909]

[quote=fishon;32632905]
First off, fishon... WHY ARE THEY DRUDGING UP HISTORY FROM YEARS AGO? This whole issue of adultery is long past gone - bringing it up imo is STUPID & redundant.
THEY ALL COMMIT sins & bads... I don't give a rip about Newt's past issue, he apologized & stepped down. It should be OVER with now.

It IS my duty fishon - sitting silent when you have some [God-given] power to help steer things imo, isn't being a good Soldier on this earth as God puts us here as His "hands and feet". (just as God used Israel to fight His battles).

The Evil is not just in THOSE ISSUES tho; it's the entire far left liberal worldview in general.
It isn't just the issues you raise, it's their propensity to gravitate towards being against most all biblical principles we [conservative Christians] accept as truth.
I have no hatred towards anyone personally; I don't know them & some of my own friends are democrat - we won't go into political/religious subjects.

So, even if it were a race of Rudy vs. Hillary, you best believe I'm voting Rudy. Yes, even if it's only for his stance on "non evil" issues.
I have ALWAYS hated the "robin hood" policies of the left - TAKE FROM THE 'NASTY' WEALTHY PERSON (who works hard & makes a success of themselves) & GIVE THEIR PROFIT TO THE MANY WHO REFUSE TO WORK OR TO OTHERS THEY SHOULDN'T BE RESPONSIBLE TO PAY FOR IN LIFE.
Penalizing people who work hard & reap the rewards of that labor. That's just the tip of the iceburg w/ what I find repulsive in their worldviews.

I respect your right to carry your opinion, I just don't share it even with your eloquent argument. This democratic party has turned LIBERAL, not democratic.
And liberals overall are working furiously against the principles I believe are taught in our bibles.
That's still a huge difference from the Repub. party that may be having some meltdown issues according to your view of them. (ie. Newt).

Again, we won't have perfection, BUT THE REPUBS AREN'T OFFENSIVELY WORKING AGAINST BIBLICAL PRINCIPLES (that we understand them as) & OUR AMERICAN HERITAGE WE ONCE HELD.

For that, I will continue doing all I can to work against the liberal party who is taking our rights & righteousness (imo) out of this country.
It's the ACLU that's fighting furiously to silence churches from speaking the truth about sin that might "offend" gays etc.
If that's what you're comfy with, by all means, sit on your hands. Enjoy the result when it happens & be sure not to complain about it.

Sorry, I just can't agree w/ your position or reasoning for it - not when I see that party aggressively undermining what shreds of morals & rights we still do have.
& all I have to say here are about POSITIONS - I have said nothing personally hateful of individuals. I have equal right to my positions & equal right to vote against what I find harmful to the country & will continue to do so. :angel:

Would you would rather vote for adulterer that is a Republican than a non-adulterer who is a Democrat? I bet if the Republican were a self-confessed homosexual you would never vote for them. Why is adultery different? As a Christian we should vote for the person with the highest moral and ethical standards regardless of whether they are for or against issues like the environment. Christian and family values should be our number 1 priority! There is always the third option independent.

Seek

[Nadiine]

[quote=Nadiine;32638148]

Would you would rather vote for adulterer that is a Republican than a non-adulterer who is a Democrat? I bet if the Republican were a self-confessed homosexual you would never vote for them. Why is adultery different? As a Christian we should vote for the person with the highest moral and ethical standards regardless of whether they are for or against issues like the environment. Christian and family values should be our number 1 priority! There is always the third option independent.
I've been very specific, you aren't voting for democrats anymore, YOU'RE VOTING FOR FAR LEFT LIBERALS today.
The democratic party is far from what it has always been.
My post also said that it's their entire worldview that imo is set against biblical teachings/principles that I believe in.

The issue is their propensity to removing the shreds of morality & standards & rights we do have left.

I cannot help that someone LIES or covers up an immoral problem they have (when repub.), BUT I CAN HELP VOTING FOR SOMEONE WHO SUPPORTS LIBERAL AGENDAS that are working to undermine the structure we have.
That's the difference. What they do personally isn't my issue - it's their worldview & the propensity to seek to push that thru laws later.

& lastly, just becuz one is republican, doesn't mean they're all "Christians". (I get tired of that stereotype). Rudy Gulliani is a perfect example. He's a moderate [if not morally liberal] repub. he isn't conservative. Repub. doesn't mean they automatically claim to be Monks in a monastary.
Hope that clarifies. :angel:

[BustedFlat]

I find it enlightening that the left side of the isle howls about personal attacks when ever you discuss their policy then turn around and ignore the policies of the right and attack the person.
There appears to be no problem digging and throwing dirt at anyone Republican for any reason. The attacks are never about the policy but about the person.
In the political field that is allowed, I guess, but I have a hard time pulling the lever for anyone who uses those tactics.


As Christians I think we are called to different standards :


Jhn 8:7 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Jhn&chapter=8&verse=7&version=kjv#7)So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.




In Jesus


BustedFlat

[elsbeth]

As a Christian we should vote for the person with the highest moral and ethical standards regardless of whether they are for or against issues like the environment. Christian and family values should be our number 1 priority!

Seek
In my opinion we ahould vote for the politician who does tha least harm to the most people. Politicians have learned to say the right words about family values in order to get votes. How do we know they really mean what they say? On the other hand issues like the environment can have HUGE impacts on uour lives.

[seekthetruth909]

[quote=seekthetruth909;32641263]
I've been very specific, you aren't voting for democrats anymore, YOU'RE VOTING FOR FAR LEFT LIBERALS today.
The democratic party is far from what it has always been.
My post also said that it's their entire worldview that imo is set against biblical teachings/principles that I believe in.

The issue is their propensity to removing the shreds of morality & standards & rights we do have left.

I cannot help that someone LIES or covers up an immoral problem they have (when repub.), BUT I CAN HELP VOTING FOR SOMEONE WHO SUPPORTS LIBERAL AGENDAS that are working to undermine the structure we have.
That's the difference. What they do personally isn't my issue - it's their worldview & the propensity to seek to push that thru laws later.

& lastly, just becuz one is republican, doesn't mean they're all "Christians". (I get tired of that stereotype). Rudy Gulliani is a perfect example. He's a moderate [if not morally liberal] repub. he isn't conservative. Repub. doesn't mean they automatically claim to be Monks in a monastary.
Hope that clarifies. :angel:

Just because a Republician is not a Christians does not mean they are free to commit adultery without Christians questioning their character.Does that mean an atheist adulterer is better than a Christian one.They both have 2 strikes against them. One is an atheist and an adulterer the other one may be a hypocrite and an adulterer. They would both show a lack of poor character and although people should forgive them I don't think they should be running the country since family values is one of the main concerns in America.

Question: Would you rather vote for a Republican non believer than a Democrat believer?

Not all Democrats are liberal.There are conservative and moderate Democrats. There are moderate and slightly liberal Republicans also.

As christians we should vote for the individual rather than the party.


WASHINGTON - For all the policy blueprints churned out by presidential campaigns, there is this indisputable fact: People care less about issues than they do about a candidate’s character.
A new Associated Press-Ipsos poll says 55 percent of those surveyed consider honesty, integrity and other values of character the most important qualities they look for in a presidential candidate. MSNBC NEWS

[djconklin]

Jesus told Pilate "My kingdom is not of this world." Kind of hard to get it plainer, don't you think?

I'd really like to know what some pastors are teaching in their churches and what God is going to say to them on the judgment day.

[fishon]

[quote=Nadiine;32638148]

Would you would rather vote for adulterer that is a Republican than a non-adulterer who is a Democrat? I bet if the Republican were a self-confessed homosexual you would never vote for them. Why is adultery different? As a Christian we should vote for the person with the highest moral and ethical standards regardless of whether they are for or against issues like the environment. Christian and family values should be our number 1 priority! There is always the third option independent.

Seek

seekthetruth,
You asked: I bet if the Republican were a self-confessed homosexual you would never vote for them. Why is adultery different?

Great question. I anixiously await an answer.
fishon

[fishon]

[quote=fishon;32632905]
First off, fishon... WHY ARE THEY DRUDGING UP HISTORY FROM YEARS AGO? This whole issue of adultery is long past gone - bringing it up imo is STUPID & redundant.
THEY ALL COMMIT sins & bads... I don't give a rip about Newt's past issue, he apologized & stepped down. It should be OVER with now.

It IS my duty fishon - sitting silent when you have some [God-given] power to help steer things imo, isn't being a good Soldier on this earth as God puts us here as His "hands and feet". (just as God used Israel to fight His battles).

The Evil is not just in THOSE ISSUES tho; it's the entire far left liberal worldview in general.
It isn't just the issues you raise, it's their propensity to gravitate towards being against most all biblical principles we [conservative Christians] accept as truth.
I have no hatred towards anyone personally; I don't know them & some of my own friends are democrat - we won't go into political/religious subjects.

So, even if it were a race of Rudy vs. Hillary, you best believe I'm voting Rudy. Yes, even if it's only for his stance on "non evil" issues.
I have ALWAYS hated the "robin hood" policies of the left - TAKE FROM THE 'NASTY' WEALTHY PERSON (who works hard & makes a success of themselves) & GIVE THEIR PROFIT TO THE MANY WHO REFUSE TO WORK OR TO OTHERS THEY SHOULDN'T BE RESPONSIBLE TO PAY FOR IN LIFE.
Penalizing people who work hard & reap the rewards of that labor. That's just the tip of the iceburg w/ what I find repulsive in their worldviews.

I respect your right to carry your opinion, I just don't share it even with your eloquent argument. This democratic party has turned LIBERAL, not democratic.
And liberals overall are working furiously against the principles I believe are taught in our bibles.
That's still a huge difference from the Repub. party that may be having some meltdown issues according to your view of them. (ie. Newt).

Again, we won't have perfection, BUT THE REPUBS AREN'T OFFENSIVELY WORKING AGAINST BIBLICAL PRINCIPLES (that we understand them as) & OUR AMERICAN HERITAGE WE ONCE HELD.

For that, I will continue doing all I can to work against the liberal party who is taking our rights & righteousness (imo) out of this country.
It's the ACLU that's fighting furiously to silence churches from speaking the truth about sin that might "offend" gays etc.
If that's what you're comfy with, by all means, sit on your hands. Enjoy the result when it happens & be sure not to complain about it.

Sorry, I just can't agree w/ your position or reasoning for it - not when I see that party aggressively undermining what shreds of morals & rights we still do have.
& all I have to say here are about POSITIONS - I have said nothing personally hateful of individuals. I have equal right to my positions & equal right to vote against what I find harmful to the country & will continue to do so. :angel:

Nadiine,
You asked: First off, fishon... WHY ARE THEY DRUDGING UP HISTORY FROM YEARS AGO? This whole issue of adultery is long past gone - bringing it up imo is STUPID & redundant. History matters. It can tell us a lot about a person's ethics and character. And the saying goes:::?Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."

And Nadiine, I believe that adultry says a lot about a man, and if he can be trusted. If he commits adultry against his wife and family; the wife that has every right to trust him, and he still deceives her, HE WILL DECIEVE ME. If a man can't be trusted with the good, and welfare of his wife and family, what would stop him from cheating and lieing to me, just another vote. He doesn't love me, but he is suppose to love his wife and family, and he cheats on them, then I am suppose to believe he has my best interest at heart, when he wouldn't keep the best interest of his wife and family at heart?

As I think I said in my other post, I am a Ronald Regan Republican. But that party is long gone. Empty promises have been the norm. The morals, ethics, and principles I believe in certainly are not that of the Dems. However, it seems that several of the Reps. talk a good talk, but then live their lives totally against what I believe.

As long as Christians keep voting for Reps. that do NOT keep their word and campaign promises to us, they will just keep taking us for granted like the Dems. do the Blacks.

The only way I have of keeping a Rep. accountable is to not give him/her my vote if they advocate evil [abortion--gay marriage]. I base my believe on the issue at hand on 2 Corinthians 6:14-18.

I guess we will just disagree.
MAKE IT a great tomorrow.
fishon

[Artificial Intelligence]

and he signed a bill to stop partial birth abortion.
Wow, even though you know the truth of the matter (posted this before) you are still posting that misleading argument?

http://www.constitutionparty.com/news.php?aid=59

When Christian conservatives attempt to defend G.W. Bush, they usually point to his signing a partial birth abortion bill as some great accomplishment which sets him apart from pro-abortion Democrats. But does it, really? I think not.


In the first place, the ink had not even dried on the paper when a federal judge struck down the partial birth abortion bill as "unconstitutional." Has anyone heard anything about it since? Has President Bush used his bully pulpit to protest the court's decision? Has he petitioned Congress to impeach the judge or to at least exercise their constitutional authority under Article II, Section 2, to limit the court's jurisdiction in this matter? No.


Does anyone believe that President Bush and the Republican members of Congress who supported the partial birth abortion bill really believe that a federal court would not declare it to be "unconstitutional?" They expected it, and they planned to do nothing about it. Therefore, the net result is, not one single baby has been saved because President Bush signed a partial birth abortion bill.

[djconklin]

http://www.constitutionparty.com/news.php?aid=59 (http://www.constitutionparty.com/news.php?aid=59)

I liked the bit about Nero vs. Caligula. But, for a Christian pastor to then run contrary to Scripture and embrace a political party when Christ explicitly said "My kingdom is not of this world" really takes the cake! It's like he made a great point and then didn't learn his own lesson! The Bible is found to be true once again: "To the law and to the testimony, if they speak NOT according to this word it is because there is NO light in them."

[Artificial Intelligence]

I liked the bit about Nero vs. Caligula. But, for a Christian pastor to then run contrary to Scripture and embrace a political party when Christ explicitly said "My kingdom is not of this world" really takes the cake! It's like he made a great point and then didn't learn his own lesson! The Bible is found to be true once again: "To the law and to the testimony, if they speak NOT according to this word it is because there is NO light in them." Huh? Contrary to scripture? Sorry but that is far from true. That passage you vaguely mentioned has nothing to do with pulling away from politics and hiding from the world. What happened to being the light of the world? So basically you are saying do nothing and let evil do its thing? That I believe many Christians have put themselves to, so now we have roughly one third of all conceptions in the US being aborted. You see, once the salt looses its flavor, what worth is it?

If My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

[djconklin]

Contrary to scripture? Sorry but that is far from true. That passage you vaguely mentioned has nothing to do with pulling away from politics and hiding from the world. What happened to being the light of the world? So basically you are saying do nothing and let evil do its thing? That I believe many Christians have put themselves to, so now we have roughly one third of all conceptions in the US being aborted. You see, once the salt looses its flavor, what worth is it?


I was too concise for you I guess and you mixed alot of stuff together.

1) When Christ said "My kingdom is not of this world" I take Him at His word and do not follow the teachings of man.
2) I said absolutley NOTHING about "hiding" from the world.
3) I agree with the Bible that we are to be the light of the world. I have been with people who noticed that I don't swear, drink or smoke, or use drugs. They notice the difference between me and others around us. I didn't need to label myself as a democrat, republican or any other political party to be a light.
4) Some people (mentioned above) asked about my non-habits and I explained that I believe that our bodies are the Temple of The Holy Ghost, that we have been bought and paid for at a very high price and so I abstain from anything that would impair the use of my God-given body and mind. Some of those agreed that was a good idea and they have quit drinking and smoking, etc.. So, no we don't do nothing. We live as God intended us to live. Like Peter who let himself be trapped when Jesus was being tried and they recognized that his speech was different and so he broke out in swearing. You follow Christ and Him alone and all those who wish to be like Him will follow.
5) Babies were being aborted long before Roe vs. Wade. Back in the old days it was called infanticide, where they'd leave the little one's out to be exposed to the elements and wild animals. There will always be sinners amongst us. Did you come out against the repeal of the amendment against alcohol. Did you propose an amendment against smoking? Do you know why many Christians won't do that?
6) The only way spiritual salt can lose its flavor is when people become wrapped up in the things of this world and takes their eyes off of Jesus. I look to Him, not the world and the world knows it too.

[Artificial Intelligence]

4) Some people (mentioned above) asked about my non-habits and I explained that I believe that our bodies are the Temple of The Holy Ghost, that we have been bought and paid for at a very high price and so I abstain from anything that would impair the use of my God-given body and mind. Some of those agreed that was a good idea and they have quit drinking and smoking, etc.. So, no we don't do nothing. We live as God intended us to live. Like Peter who let himself be trapped when Jesus was being tried and they recognized that his speech was different and so he broke out in swearing. You follow Christ and Him alone and all those who wish to be like Him will follow.
5) Babies were being aborted long before Roe vs. Wade. Back in the old days it was called infanticide, where they'd leave the little one's out to be exposed to the elements and wild animals. There will always be sinners amongst us. Did you come out against the repeal of the amendment against alcohol. Did you propose an amendment against smoking? Do you know why many Christians won't do that?
Yeah I know why, because alcohol is not sin. The bible flat out teaches that alcohol is good if not abused. The reason people would try to ban alcohol is not because the bible says it is wrong, which it does not, but because they rely on traditions over the word of God. The same can apply to tobacco, it is not a sin if not abused. Health issues arise if it is abused; if one chain smokes excessively they can damage their health.

Actually you are using the old idiom “throw the baby out with the bath water”. So, because abortion happened before or during it was criminalized then there is no need to try to end it again now but allow any to have access to it legally. This is a terrible flaw, because not only now it is available to anyone, not only are the abortion mills exported to other countries by planned parenthood(big business), but you are paying for it by your taxes. Well one would say “Pay to Caesar what belongs to Caesar” but in the US we HAVE NO Caesar, we have “by the people and for the people“. In this process we self govern, but if we choose not to self govern as you suggest than we allow others to govern us. This is not about trying to set up the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth, it’s about self government. If we choose to not self govern than we choose to be governed by the will of this world system, that is the choice you are making.

[djconklin]

The bible flat out teaches that alcohol is good if not abused.

"Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging" (and their alcohol percentage wasn't very great back then) "and whoever is decieved thereby is not wise."

The same can apply to tobacco, it is not a sin if not abused.

Craig Ferguson had a bit about that one night. "Abuse" is if you light them up and inhale.

Actually you are using the old idiom “throw the baby out with the bath water”. So, because abortion happened before or during it was criminalized then there is no need to try to end it again now but allow any to have access to it legally.

No, that was not my point at all. To be very blunt: I DO NOT BELIEVE IN ABORTION!

not only are the abortion mills exported to other countries by planned parenthood(big business),

As if these countries weren't practicing abortion before?

but you are paying for it by your taxes.

That is the flaw we can use on those who propose it. If they want to pay for it that's therir business but they should not be FORCING us to pay for it too. They are cramming THEIR moral values DOWN OUR THROAT, which they keep claiming we are doing to them when we oppose abortion.

If we choose to not self govern than we choose to be governed by the will of this world system, that is the choice you are making.

No, I recognize that no matter who you put in office they will NOT be standing up for Christ. We've had plenty of experiences already with pastors and televangelists cheating on their wife, abusing their children, stealing from the church and living high off the hog at our expense. Its all a question of who or what do you serve: is it Christ or do you follow the advice of Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Jerry Falwell, Benny Hinn, Oral Roberts, Jimmy Swaggert, etc. and seek power so you can force other people to live the way you want them to.

[Artificial Intelligence]

"Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging" (and their alcohol percentage wasn't very great back then) "and whoever is decieved thereby is not wise."

Temperance is, unfortunately, one of those words that has changed its meaning. It now usually means teetotalism… [In the past,] temperance referred not specially to drink, but to all pleasures; and it meant not abstaining, but going the right length and no further. It is a mistake to think that Christians ought all to be teetotalers; Mohammedanism, not Christianity, is the teetotal religion.

Of course it may be the duty of a particular Christian, or of any Christian, at a particular time, to abstain from strong drink, either because he is the sort of man who cannot drink at all without drinking too much, or because he is with people who are inclined to drunkenness and must not encourage them by drinking himself. But the whole point is that he is abstaining, for a good reason, from something which he does not condemn and which he likes to see other people enjoying. One of the marks of a certain type of bad man is that he cannot give up a thing himself without wanting every one else to give it up. That is not the Christian way. An individual Christian may see fit to give up all sorts of things for special reasons—marriage, or meat, or beer, or the cinema; but the moment he starts saying the things are bad in themselves, or looking down his nose at other people who use them, he has taken the wrong turning.

—C.S. Lewis. Mere Christianity, p. 78-79



Genesis 14:18 Melchizedek offering wine to Abram
Nehemiah 2:1 refers to the king drinking wine (Nehemiah was required to taste it first to make sure it was not poisoned)
Esther 5:6; 7:1-2 speaks of wine that Esther (the godly Jewess) drank with the king
Job 1:13 refers to righteous Job’s family drinking wine
Daniel 10:3 drinking wine as a blessing after fasting
1 Tim 5:23 Paul tells Timothy to drink some wine for his stomach’s sake
Deut 14:26 implies that it is a good thing to drink wine and strong drink to the Lord
Psalm 4:7 compares joy in the Lord to the abundance of wine
Psalm 104:14-15 credits God as the creator of wine that “makes a man’s heart glad”
Prov 3:10 blessings of abundant stores of wine
Isa 25:6 The Lord prepares a banquet with “well-aged wines... and fine, well-aged wines” for his people
And Matthew 11:19 Implies that Jesus drank alcohol



No, that was not my point at all. To be very blunt: I DO NOT BELIEVE IN ABORTION! Vague. I don't believe in aliens from the planet Mars. Some don’t believe that the holocaust ever happened.



As if these countries weren't practicing abortion before? No, not on the scale our government has introduced to them.

That is the flaw we can use on those who propose it. If they want to pay for it that's therir business but they should not be FORCING us to pay for it too. They are cramming THEIR moral values DOWN OUR THROAT, which they keep claiming we are doing to them when we oppose abortion.
It's not all about them though, it's about you and I. If we do nothing, it only gets worse. What you said was do nothing, but we have a system of self government so in part our inaction is in part the fault with what is wrong. If your kid reached for a pot of boiling water and you did nothing, is it fully the kids fault if they got burnt while you say by and did nothing and watched it happen? Maybe you and I can't stop it per say (united we stand but divided we fall), but if every Christian got out and voted then this would/could not be an issue... but many stand by and look on. That is a fine example of the salt loosing it’s flavor if I ever seen it.

No, I recognize that no matter who you put in office they will NOT be standing up for Christ. Well then you really need to suck up to a history book or two (un-revised), even some of the founding fathers were ministers. This country was suppose to be a haven for Christians to be free from the crown that was linked directly to the Church which often had power from a single seat. Separation of Church and state, its true meaning, was to make it so such a thing as had happened in Europe never happened here, but layers are reading it all wrong and in fact inserting their own religious structure which is called evolutionism or Darwinism (it simply is a religion).

If Christians did what they are suppose to be doing in this nation as had been structured into our form of government from the start, then there would be a fantastic Christian president for this country as well as many in other parts of government. But as I see it, many Christians need to repent first and allow God to heal this land that was once dedicated to him. What has happened is the porridge is being given for what we should have had which is a birthright for a Godly nation.

Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Jerry Falwell, Benny Hinn, Oral Roberts, Jimmy Swaggert, etc. And is this just a general bash against Christians? How about Oliver North, or Dan Quayle? I would support either one of them if they were on the rep ticket (or ANY ticket!). Those are two absolutely fantastic devout Christians that are certainly pro-life to the core and very active in the cause. Oliver recently even compared abortion to an act of terrorism (compared it to 9-11-01 even) while Dan and his wife have been plugging along for the cause for years. But... the track record of the reps say they would never put one of these heroes forward, what a crying shame! Reps and Dems really don’t care what the Christians want, but why should they when the Christians don’t CARE what they want? To bait, hook and pacify seems to work well enough for them.

[No Sale]


:wave: Found an audio of Oliver North for those that wanna hear... who have ears http://www.missourinet.com/mp3/ollie1.mp3

[marke]

Hmmm, last I checked in America, people are INNOCENT BEFORE PROVEN GUILTY.:scratch:

I had no idea that an allegation in a report PRIOR to an investigation rendered people guilty. I thought you of all people would be more aware of our rights & freedoms as Americans Marke... :doh::eek: tsk tsk

Tell that to Jose Padilla. A US citizen who has been held without lawyers, without trial and tortured for years all based on what??? They won't present the evidence against him and they won't give him a trial to defend himself. Perhaps you need to open a paper and see that people are not innocent before proven guilty since the Bush Administration has taken power.

This isn't right, Nadiine. Kind of creepy really that it doesn't seem to matter what is done by these people who call themselves "Christians". You'll support them regardless what the Bible says Christians should be acting like.

Did you hear the latest news. It has been discovered that "W" had a hand in this mess after congress was assured the White House had nothing to do with it. More lies and deceit. I feel sorry for you.

Good luck and God bless

[marke]

marke,
We all have ethics problems man, it's called sin and none of us are exempt. Although, as I stated in another thread, I tend to agree with you on these issues, it is in large part unproductive to keep making these types of posts as they seem to designed to provoke.
Please take a look at the prayer of St. Ephraim in my signature.
Peace,
Don
Problem is brother, many here don't recognize these as wrong actions. Yes, I hope to provoke someone to question whether they are following the teachings of Jesus or the fairy tales of man.

Some preacher the other day told me he thought a certain person was "Godly". The question has to be whose God. Whose God is answered by ACTIONS, not words.

Anyone can call themselves a Christian, but their actions betray them. Christians wouldn't be doing these things and yet here we have one after another defending wrong actions on these forums that go against the teachings of Jesus.

When wrong becomes right something needs to change.

Jesus is getting a bum rap. Non belivers say "Those are the actions of a Christian!!??. No, they are not the actions of a Christian and instead of bringing people to Jesus, they are put off by this ingenious behavior.

People who don't know that a Christian wouldn't act in a manor such as our current government run from Jesus instead of want to know Jesus.

Jesus wouldn't torture anyone. It's against the most basic principle.

These are the things Jesus tells us to watch for so that we are not deceived. Not actions to embrace and defend which many on these forums do.

What really concerns me most is the lack of understanding on these forums of what is right and what is wrong according to the New Testament.

Popular opinion doesn't cut it. The truth does.

I really did like your prayer. But tell me. What is wrong with standing up for Jesus? If you say the sun is blue, I know you have a problem of some sort because as we all know, the sun is a different color. That isn't judging, that's observing.

I observe there is a problem discerning right from wrong in the church and it is my duty to stand up for Jesus and say "hey wait just a darn minute" just as it is yours.

We are supposed to be Christians first, not democrats or republicans. Truth is truth, lies are lies. The proof is in the pudding. Have the actions of the Bush Administration been following the teachings of Jesus? No. Lies, deceit are tools of the other guy like it or not.

I didn't write the Bible, but I have bothered to take the time to read the teachings of the faith I profess and those teachings say there is something very wrong about people who say one thing and act another.

Discernment is a gift of the spirit. I wish everyone had it.

Good luck and God Bless.

[marke]

So, you don't like Republicans...

I don't know the historical reasons why the republicans became the "Christian" party, but today i would assume it's because they are generally conservative whereas democrats are generally liberal.

For example, democrats typically support the murder of innocent children (otherwise known as "abortion" to be less offensive) and same-sex marriages or rights. Both of these go against Scripture and would be considered "un-Christian".

Is that the explanation you were seeking? And i agree with an earlier poster that said we are all sinners. We are all fallen before God and make stupid decisions all the time. So you think just b/c some Republicans are being investigated for wrong-doing that makes all Republicans bad or non-Christian? Or you think b/c of this Republicans are guilty of more sin than Democrats? I don't understand where you are going with this post :scratch:

Republicans and Democrats are equally sinful people. Neither is more sinful than the other and neither is inherintly more Christian than the other. There can be unbelieving Republicans and Saved Democrats....
Love your last line. Excellent point.

But isn't it time we were Christians first? Seriously, we are supposed to be in the world, but not of the world and here we are arguing about issues of the world instead of getting out and serving humanity and bringing people to Jesus.

Up until thirty or so years ago Christians were not encouraged to enter into politics because we let God control His world. Then came along ministers of error telling their followers to forget what the New Testament tells us in the parable of the seeds and many other places about involvement in the world and do as they say, hate who they tell you to hate, oppose those things they tell you to oppose. This is where the problem comes from. Ministers of error encouraging people to read their books and listen to their tapes (for a price of course) instead of the New Testament.

This is wrong and it's getting worse by the day. Forget democrats and republicans. Put Jesus first and don't let His name be associated with unGodly acts by people whose actions prove them to be something other than a follower of Jesus. Stand up for Jesus, not those whose actions stand against Him.

Remember this is not my soap box. Jesus tells us Himself "it is by their actions that you will know my followers". Following blindly everyone falls into the ditch.

Good luck and God bless.

[marke]

Both parties have ethical problems. Give it a rest. :sigh:
So do a lot of people on these forums.

We are to conform ourselves to the teachings of Jesus and His teachings don't include associating yourself with those whose actions are contrary or opposite His teachings.

Why is it so many stand in line to stand up for those doing things Jesus says are the very things to watch for so not to be deceived into losing your salvation, and no one is standing up for Jesus?

That really bothers me.

Good luck and God Bless

[marke]

One of the very first things Bush did when he hit office was sign a bill to stop abortions for oversees military (something to that effect), and he signed a bill to stop partial birth abortion.
Do they bother telling you those 2 facts?

It was LIBERAL women's groups that worked fast & furiously to get that bill halted tho. So partial births aren't banned still even tho he signed a bill.

It was Clinton that passed partial birth which imo is an abomination. Billy Graham pleaded w/ him not to pass that as I hear the story of it...?

It isn't something you just hop in & undo - it takes alot more work than that from lower levels & we know it.

Democrats are the ones pushing church & state separations that weren't there in our country's beginnings... I'm at a loss as to how that's doing more GOOD for the country as God's slowly removed even from Christmas & Easter? Remove God from a nation & expect it not to fall into depravity? (I know, define depravity; our opinions will be very different.. however, I do base mine on scripture).
The ACLU's track history is proven and I won't ever vote democratic due to who supports them.

It's not democrats anymore that are in office, IT'S EXTREME LIBERALS. I'd actual WELCOME a real democrat - one like Kennedy was.
Today, you vote democrat, & you put hardcore liberals into office. NO WAY will I be a part of that.
How come you never defend the children who have been born into the world wanted and who are loved?

You get on your high horse and talk about killing innocent, unborn, unwanted and unloved children whose future God is in control of and ignore all the death and destruction going on in Iraq caused by the Bush Administration.

Iraq never attacked us which means we are killing innocent people, wanted children on both side which God considers an abomination and is hateful to His soul. I never hear you mention that.

Instead you defend those actions that are hateful to Gods soul on one hand and rant and rave about killing the unborn, unloved and unwanted on the other. Which is it? Do you stand against killing innocent people or not. You can't have it both ways. Killing is killing.

War is abortion of the wanted children. Your compassion seems a little ingenious and one sided.

Shouldn't you be concerned about all killing of innocent people, not just those who are unborn, unloved and unwanted whose future is in the hands of God?

Not a sparrow falls without the will of God. Let Him run His world. You get to try and stay out of it.

If you will not Hear the truth. No one can tell you

Good luck and God Bless.

[marke]

The Democrats haven't done anything about it. But they didn't claim (or insinuate) that they were going to do so. That's my point: why vote for someone because they say the right words, even if they aren't going to do anything about it?
How do you spell D E C E I T.

[marke]

If you vote for the "lesser of two evils," you're still voting for evil.

I am a 60 yr. old Ronald Regan Republican, and I have never missed a vote. This may very well be the first time I will not vote for anyone for President.
fishon
Thank you fishon.

People don't seem to realize they are voting for evil even if it is the lessor evil.

I don't vote. I let God run His world. As many have pointed out here, both sides have ethical problems. Only the democrats don't make a pretense about something they are not. The republicans tell you one thing and discard you when they are done with you. Lies, deceit whatever it takes to win is their motto.

The Bible tells us we will be despicably used and ole "W" and the republicans proved it. Still waiting for that $8 billion a year "W" promised for the Christian vote six years ago. Can't believe they were deceived twice.

It's so sad.

God bless.

[marke]

Because I can't give my vote to someone who is pro-abortion as a part of their platform.
Where is the fruit?

[marke]

I've actually thought about that very thing myself. But I HAVE TO vote in this election - do you want the WORSE evil in??? I dont! I'm gonna vote & the Lord will know what my motive was.
Turn this around too, God could easily say, you knew who the worse person was, yet you did NOTHING to halt them.

We have to realize that God knows our hearts & we can only do the best we can with what we have. My JOB as a believer is to work against the enemy & that's what I'll do. What's worrysome to me is that I'm afraid our selections for leaders have become so poor.

I don't like much of any candidates of either party! But Dems have a worse selection than we do imo! - a media created nobody who's done absolutely NOTHING & covered up a muslim background, "Osama" & Hillary. (no comments other than I think she could run for Prison Warden & stand a good chance of winning):help:

Imo, either side that wins should worry this country!

Why don't you let God run His world instead.

Evil is evil. You've heard you are what you eat? Well, you don't want to be supporting evil of any kind.

Better to let go and let God run His world so not to corrupt you own soul.

Good luck and God Bless

[SteelDisciple]

Maybe people will finally realize that God doesn't exist in politics. :) Or at least in the heart of politicians.

[elsbeth]

Forget democrats and republicans. Put Jesus first and don't let His name be associated with unGodly acts by people whose actions prove them to be something other than a follower of Jesus. Stand up for Jesus, not those whose actions stand against Him.


Amen to that.

[Kelly]

Where is the fruit?

The fruit of saving babies from abortion certainly doesn't sprout from the Democratic party tree.

At least Bush managed to get two Supreme Court Judges in there who may make a difference.

[Kelly]

edit - work has made me grumpy today. please ignore

[Cris413]

Why don't you let God run His world instead.

Evil is evil. You've heard you are what you eat? Well, you don't want to be supporting evil of any kind.

Better to let go and let God run His world so not to corrupt you own soul.

Good luck and God Bless
marke, I just have to ask...is there another beside yourself using this user name? Or have you simply forgotten what you've written in other threads/posts?....because I certainly haven't. You seem to be quite the contradiction.

Were you not just praising Clinton and making excuses for and advocating his lying about adultery not too long ago? Have you not been on a major soapbox for the liberal political agenda from day one?

I suggest, friend, you consider very prayerfully and consistently regarding what you speak. Might I also suggest you read Proverbs 15:1-10...at least.

[pgp_protector]

marke,
We all have ethics problems man, it's called sin and none of us are exempt. Although, as I stated in another thread, I tend to agree with you on these issues, it is in large part unproductive to keep making these types of posts as they seem to designed to provoke.
Please take a look at the prayer of St. Ephraim in my signature.
Peace,
Don
I like that prayer.

Think I'll make a small poster for my wall / office based on that.