Joel Osteen

[I'mHis]

What do you guys know about him? I have heard his name, but I haven't really heard him speak or read his books. I overheard someone talking about him, but I don't know much about him, so I couldn't really join the discussion.

[The Princess Bride]

I dont know much about him either, but as with any televised preacher, I wonder if the intent is truly to spread Gods Word and not just draw in crowds for the money and publiciy. :sorry:

[I'mHis]

That's always my fear with televised preachers too. Although there ARE some good ones out there, I am always wary.

[Kelly]

He is EXTREMELY popular, and his mega church is a stadium that packs several services. I've watched him on TV from time to time and his message is milky to the point of being pure fluff. I couldn't imagine fighting those crowds/parking to hear such a weak message. Hopefully they have good small groups

I don't think I've ever heard him quote scripture or put scripture references up for what he's saying. On an interview with Larry King he was asked if Jesus was the only way to heaven and his reply was "I don't know".

`Nuff said.

[andross77]

He is EXTREMELY popular, and his mega church is a stadium that packs several services. I've watched him on TV from time to time and his message is milky to the point of being pure fluff. I couldn't imagine fighting those crowds/parking to hear such a weak message. Hopefully they have good small groups

I don't think I've ever heard him quote scripture or put scripture references up for what he's saying. On an interview with Larry King he was asked if Jesus was the only way to heaven and his reply was "I don't know".

`Nuff said.

Guess i won't be buying any of his books anytime soon. Now Rick Warren, i've heard some good stories about him relating to his new found wealth b/c of his mega-success, "The Purpose Driven Life" and all it's variations.

I never saw that interview but to say you don't know if Jesus is the ONLY way to the Father means he is more lost than Ted Haggert with his sexual sins.

[Kelly]

Now Rick Warren, i've heard some good stories about him relating to his new found wealth b/c of his mega-success, "The Purpose Driven Life" and all it's variations.

At least Rick backs up everything he says with scripture. PDL has extensive footnotes.

[Cris413]

His church is not too far from our home. I would never, ever go there.

[flyingsum0]

I watch him every Sunday night at midnight. He's actually a very inspriational speaker, I feel he is spirit filled.

You can check out his website here: http://joelosteen.lakewood.cc/site/PageServer?pagename=JOM_homepage

[GraceLikeRainFallsDown]

I was in leadership in my last church (recently moved - need new church home). We were warned by the leaders of the church about Joel Osteen. Other leaders at the meeting had not nice things to say about his teaching.

So, I watched his broadcast (or part of it - got bored). I did not see him read from the Bible once only wave it around. I do not remember any quoting of Scripture from memory.

The main issue with him seems to be he does not teach the entire Gospel. He only focuses on the good things or blessings. He does not teach any warnings. I have heard others say he teaches from the "church of prosperity".

Of course he is popular if he only tells you about all the good things. But, that is deceptive to me. A leader needs to help their flock learn about the traps in life. How to deal with sin in their lives. About Hell and consequences.

He may be inspirational to listen to once in a while, but I would be leary of him being my main preacher. If he is not teaching the entire Bible, then to me he is a deceptive teacher.

This is just my opinion and the opinion of others I have talked too.

[hollystar20]

Go to Joel Osteen.com hes a great pastor very incuraging.

[rosiecotton]

I've only really listened to him once. And it was kind of funny, because I've learned that when God wants me to learn something or is trying to get something through to me, I'll start reading and hearing the same thing over and over. Like, I'll read something in the Bible pertaining to that topic, then something will come in my email dealing with that, or I may read something in a magazine or hear it on the radio.
So, awhile back, there was this one topic that for some reason God wanted me to 'grasp'. And I kept coming across it in everything. I came home from work one day and turned on the tv. It just happened to be on whatever channel Joel was on and he was talking about that very topic!!
So, I believe that God can use him. I've heard many people say he preaches fluff, doesn't preach the whole gospel, etc. and maybe he doesn't. I can't pass that judgment since I've not really listened to him. But, that doesn't mean that someone isn't helped by something he says.

[I'mHis]

I definitely agree. God does that in my life too. I'm finally like "Okay God, guess you REALLY want me to get this one!" lol

[Kelly]

So, I believe that God can use him. I've heard many people say he preaches fluff, doesn't preach the whole gospel, etc. and maybe he doesn't. I can't pass that judgment since I've not really listened to him. But, that doesn't mean that someone isn't helped by something he says.

First of all, Rosie, I totally agree with your concept of God talking to you by exposing you to the same message through different, unrelated sources, I get the same thing all the time.

And definitely, anyone can be used by God for His greater glory - look at Pharaoh, for example. I just wouldn't want to be a member of Joel's flock if that was the end all be all of the sermons and teachings I received. I also am concerned for those in his TV audience who get nothing else but his messages weekly.

[GraceLikeRainFallsDown]

I definitely agree. God does that in my life too. I'm finally like "Okay God, guess you REALLY want me to get this one!" lol

He talks to me like this as well. :wave:

[luv4HIM]

i have seen his 'show'. i don't understand the whole "this is my Bible, I am what it says I am, I can be what it says I can be...". while I agree I am what it says, how come thay don't open them and see what the Bible says. When he was on The View last year, he admitted that he has never gone to seminary and is not ordained. Lakewood church was his dads congregation and he took over when his dad passed away( he used to run sound/lights or something like that). And his refusal to answer that JESUS is the only way to salvation did it for me. He seems more worried about about being PC than the souls of the millions he reaches being saved!! Yes his messages are very uplifting, but going to church isn't just about feeling good.

[Kelly]

His This is my bible thing reminds me of the marine chant from Full Metal Jacket

"Marines: [chanting] This is my rifle. There are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. Without me, my rifle is useless. Without my rifle I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy, who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will. Before God I swear this creed: my rifle and myself are defenders of my country, we are the masters of my enemy, we are the saviors of my life. So be it, until there is no enemy, but peace. Amen. "

[GregoryTurner]

Wow!!!! I did not see Joel on Larry King. Did he really answer that he did not know if Jesus was the only way to Heaven? That is REALLY disturbing if he did answer in that manner.

As fas as if he has ever been to seminary or if he is ordained I think is not really a big issue. There are MANY street preachers that introduce alot ofpeople to Jesus and they have no seminary training and are not ordained. I really do not believe that a person "must" have seminary or be ordained to pastor or assoc. pastora church, though many people do.

[marke]

Guess i won't be buying any of his books anytime soon. Now Rick Warren, i've heard some good stories about him relating to his new found wealth b/c of his mega-success, "The Purpose Driven Life" and all it's variations.

I never saw that interview but to say you don't know if Jesus is the ONLY way to the Father means he is more lost than Ted Haggert with his sexual sins.
Try reading the New Testament. That's the book you should be reading. That's the one that contains the word.

[dpadre]

What do you guys know about him? I have heard his name, but I haven't really heard him speak or read his books. I overheard someone talking about him, but I don't know much about him, so I couldn't really join the discussion.
I haven't walked in his shoes, sorry I can't help you. I've gotta go, I've got a plank stuck in my eye. Christ-B-With-U!

[marke]

I was in leadership in my last church (recently moved - need new church home). We were warned by the leaders of the church about Joel Osteen. Other leaders at the meeting had not nice things to say about his teaching.

So, I watched his broadcast (or part of it - got bored). I did not see him read from the Bible once only wave it around. I do not remember any quoting of Scripture from memory.

The main issue with him seems to be he does not teach the entire Gospel. He only focuses on the good things or blessings. He does not teach any warnings. I have heard others say he teaches from the "church of prosperity".

Of course he is popular if he only tells you about all the good things. But, that is deceptive to me. A leader needs to help their flock learn about the traps in life. How to deal with sin in their lives. About Hell and consequences.

He may be inspirational to listen to once in a while, but I would be leary of him being my main preacher. If he is not teaching the entire Bible, then to me he is a deceptive teacher.

This is just my opinion and the opinion of others I have talked too.
I'm sorry, but your comments almost make me sick.

Our job as Christians is to spread the word. If a single person comes to Jesus as a result of Joel Olsteen's actions that will be one more person saved regardless of how Joel Olsteen presents his message. From there it is up to each of us to educate ourselves in the Word of the Lord and not follow blindly.

How did your comments just contribute to the kingdom of God? Did you say you saw the program once and that gives you freedom to trash him because his style didn't appeal to you? I think not.

The Word contained in the New Testament should be your main teacher, none other. Whatever works to inspire anyone to follow or come to the teachings of Jesus is helpful to the kingdom.

Your comments are not. Perhaps if you took some time to listen to Joel Olsteen you'll see that he does quote from the Bible.

He did a real good show once on what Jesus meant when He said it's what comes out of your mouth that makes you unclean. Kind of clarified what Mom said about not saying anything if you didn't have anything to say. Or have no idea of what you are talking about.

Joel shows people how to use the teachings of Jesus to improve their everyday lives. Nothing wrong with that.
Must be working. A lot of people attend his service and even more watch the program on TV for inspiration.

Join us and then if you still feel the need to trash him, go for it. At least you'll have a better idea of what you are talking about.

I think you'll find his teachings refreshing.

God Bless.

[johnthreesixteen]

If a single person comes to Jesus as a result of Joel Olsteen's actions that will be...
A modern miracle!

[GraceLikeRainFallsDown]

I'm sorry, but your comments almost make me sick.

Our job as Christians is to spread the word. If a single person comes to Jesus as a result of Joel Olsteen's actions that will be one more person saved regardless of how Joel Olsteen presents his message. From there it is up to each of us to educate ourselves in the Word of the Lord and not follow blindly.

How did your comments just contribute to the kingdom of God? Did you say you saw the program once and that gives you freedom to trash him because his style didn't appeal to you? I think not.

The Word contained in the New Testament should be your main teacher, none other. Whatever works to inspire anyone to follow or come to the teachings of Jesus is helpful to the kingdom.

Your comments are not. Perhaps if you took some time to listen to Joel Olsteen you'll see that he does quote from the Bible.

He did a real good show once on what Jesus meant when He said it's what comes out of your mouth that makes you unclean. Kind of clarified what Mom said about not saying anything if you didn't have anything to say. Or have no idea of what you are talking about.

Joel shows people how to use the teachings of Jesus to improve their everyday lives. Nothing wrong with that.
Must be working. A lot of people attend his service and even more watch the program on TV for inspiration.

Join us and then if you still feel the need to trash him, go for it. At least you'll have a better idea of what you are talking about.

I think you'll find his teachings refreshing.

God Bless.

I am sorry you were not feeling well after you read my opinion. I hope you feel better now. :)

I did not imply that I had a great amount of knowledge regarding Mr. Olsteen. I merely stated my opinion on what I have heard from him directly on his program and others that have read his book that I know. I know of one person (I respect) that bought his book and actually threw it away after a couple of chapters.

I completely agree that the New Testament should be our main teacher. ALL the words not just selective ones that make people feel good.

I am not saying that everything he says is false. From the parts of his show I have seen, I can not think of anything that is false. I just worry that people that faithfully follow his teaching weekly will miss PART of the message in the New Testament.

He does not come across as strong in the Truth of the Bible that Jesus is the way to salvation. He says he believes the Bible but just can't say that those that do not believe that Jesus is their savior will not be saved. I agree with him that only God can judge. But, God gave us guidelines in the Bible that are very clear on certain issues. Jesus as the way to salvation is a clear point. He just kind of leaves it open for non-Christians.

I do worry about a teacher with so many followers that may get the impression that Jesus is not NECESSARY for salvation. He says I don't know a couple of times on this issue. A man in his position should know.

from cnn.com (Larry King Interview)

KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong, aren't they?

OSTEEN: Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God with judge a person's heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus.

Actually, I will watch his show again next time I come across it. I will count how many times he quotes scripture and how many times he opens that Bible he waves around. I will count how many times he warns his flock about sin and its consequences.

I have no problem with someone listening to him for encouragement now and again. My concern is for those who read or listen to nothing else and miss a big part of the Lords message to us.

I do not doubt he is inspirational. He was on the parts of his show I have seen. I would be fine with it if he were an inspirational speaker. But, I think a Pastor has more responsibility then an inspirational speaker.

Just my opinion . . .

[marke]

First of all, Rosie, I totally agree with your concept of God talking to you by exposing you to the same message through different, unrelated sources, I get the same thing all the time.

And definitely, anyone can be used by God for His greater glory - look at Pharaoh, for example. I just wouldn't want to be a member of Joel's flock if that was the end all be all of the sermons and teachings I received. I also am concerned for those in his TV audience who get nothing else but his messages weekly.
God is also using "W" for His greater glory. He is separating the wheat from the chaff in the body of Christ.

Those who can discern wrong actions of this administration and those that can't.

Time to ask yourself if your political affiliation is more important than your spiritual affiliation.

How republicans stole the title as the "Christian" party is beyond me. Surely God works is strange ways.

[marke]

A modern miracle!
Perhaps John 3:19 would be more appropriate.

[marke]

i have seen his 'show'. i don't understand the whole "this is my Bible, I am what it says I am, I can be what it says I can be...". while I agree I am what it says, how come thay don't open them and see what the Bible says. When he was on The View last year, he admitted that he has never gone to seminary and is not ordained. Lakewood church was his dads congregation and he took over when his dad passed away( he used to run sound/lights or something like that). And his refusal to answer that JESUS is the only way to salvation did it for me. He seems more worried about about being PC than the souls of the millions he reaches being saved!! Yes his messages are very uplifting, but going to church isn't just about feeling good.
Perhaps a review of Romans 2 might be in order.

[Pasat_14]

Oh man, there is so much I could say about this Joel Osteen guy. I was given his book about 7 steps to living to your full potential and it is full of self help. I've checked out his reference of verses and he always referrs to verses that refer to heaven. Yet Joel uses them to say that God wants us to have this 'abundant life' on earth. He twists the verses, that's when he actually uses scripture.
I've been going through his book with post-it notes and I find a minumum of two things I don't like on each double spread.
I've also listened to one of his sermons on the internet and he doesn't mention Jesus. The Bible tells us that no one can come to God except through Jesus...He doesn't preach anything to do with a relationship with Jesus. He says that we should be expecting more simply because we're Christians. Doesn't the Bible tell us that we will get more trials as Christians?
He also makes the listener feel good and I agree with the person who said going to church isn't all about feeling good. You're there to praise God and learn.
Joel also doesn't talk about sin. Which would you rather, feeling good about yourself or feeling guilt because you've gone against your Father in Heaven? I would rather feel the guilt, it means we can then get put right and please Him even more. That should be one of our ultimate aims, to please our Father, not the other way around. From what I've read from Joel's book so far he seems to have the opinion of "what can Christianity do for me?" rather than "what can I do for Christ?"
Anyways, I know I someone may not agree with what I've said and that's cool. I believe if Joel is helping you then that's good for you, he just doesn't help me.
God bless!

[johnthreesixteen]

Perhaps John 3:19 would be more appropriate.
No member of the Profit Driven Church is fooling God.
Sadly they fool people.
If you can't accept that some people are of the opinion that JO and co. are just after $alvation, then tough.
'Want salvation? Buy my book!'
Enjoy yourself.
My money goes to charity, not to the multi-millionaire televangelists.

[Cris413]

I'm sorry, but your comments almost make me sick.

Our job as Christians is to spread the word. If a single person comes to Jesus as a result of Joel Olsteen's actions that will be one more person saved regardless of how Joel Olsteen presents his message. From there it is up to each of us to educate ourselves in the Word of the Lord and not follow blindly.

How did your comments just contribute to the kingdom of God? Did you say you saw the program once and that gives you freedom to trash him because his style didn't appeal to you? I think not.

The Word contained in the New Testament should be your main teacher, none other. Whatever works to inspire anyone to follow or come to the teachings of Jesus is helpful to the kingdom.

Your comments are not. Perhaps if you took some time to listen to Joel Olsteen you'll see that he does quote from the Bible.

He did a real good show once on what Jesus meant when He said it's what comes out of your mouth that makes you unclean. Kind of clarified what Mom said about not saying anything if you didn't have anything to say. Or have no idea of what you are talking about.

Joel shows people how to use the teachings of Jesus to improve their everyday lives. Nothing wrong with that.
Must be working. A lot of people attend his service and even more watch the program on TV for inspiration.

Join us and then if you still feel the need to trash him, go for it. At least you'll have a better idea of what you are talking about.

I think you'll find his teachings refreshing.

God Bless.
Well, this certainly sheds a lot of light on the use of deception and advocation of lying in your other posts. (As long as no one dies of course.)

[Nadiine]

What do you guys know about him? I have heard his name, but I haven't really heard him speak or read his books. I overheard someone talking about him, but I don't know much about him, so I couldn't really join the discussion.
Due to lack of time, here's what I have to say for now:

:help::help: :help: :help: :help: :help: :help:

[Kelly]

There is nothing wrong with questioning the teachings of a pastor, especially in what many consider near end-times. We know what people will gather around, it tells us in scripture.

Hey, if I need a feel good, self-help boost, I might watch him. All I'm saying is that I wouldn't fight those crowds for that message.

[Cris413]

I am sorry you were not feeling well after you read my opinion. I hope you feel better now. :)

I did not imply that I had a great amount of knowledge regarding Mr. Olsteen. I merely stated my opinion on what I have heard from him directly on his program and others that have read his book that I know. I know of one person (I respect) that bought his book and actually threw it away after a couple of chapters.

I completely agree that the New Testament should be our main teacher. ALL the words not just selective ones that make people feel good.

I am not saying that everything he says is false. From the parts of his show I have seen, I can not think of anything that is false. I just worry that people that faithfully follow his teaching weekly will miss PART of the message in the New Testament.

He does not come across as strong in the Truth of the Bible that Jesus is the way to salvation. He says he believes the Bible but just can't say that those that do not believe that Jesus is their savior will not be saved. I agree with him that only God can judge. But, God gave us guidelines in the Bible that are very clear on certain issues. Jesus as the way to salvation is a clear point. He just kind of leaves it open for non-Christians.

I do worry about a teacher with so many followers that may get the impression that Jesus is not NECESSARY for salvation. He says I don't know a couple of times on this issue. A man in his position should know.

from cnn.com (Larry King Interview)

KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong, aren't they?

OSTEEN: Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God with judge a person's heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus.

Actually, I will watch his show again next time I come across it. I will count how many times he quotes scripture and how many times he opens that Bible he waves around. I will count how many times he warns his flock about sin and its consequences.

I have no problem with someone listening to him for encouragement now and again. My concern is for those who read or listen to nothing else and miss a big part of the Lords message to us.

I do not doubt he is inspirational. He was on the parts of his show I have seen. I would be fine with it if he were an inspirational speaker. But, I think a Pastor has more responsibility then an inspirational speaker.

Just my opinion . . .
I agree Grace, I think a big point here is Mr Osteen would be taxed as an inspirational speaker...but under the guise of a church...he's tax exempt. (Hmmm...thoughts to ponder)

I think there is a problem when people confuse opinion with judgment. (As marke so lovingly noted in the heart of brotherly love to you)

Yes, my opinion of JO is not great. Actually I think the man is harmful to the point of leading people into a false sense of spirituality. Everyone can walk away from his message feeling all warm and fuzzy about themselves with no real need for repentance. No wonder the masses flock to his message.

Yes, I judge that as wrong. It's called spiritual discernment. People get so caught up in not judging others...and tend to forget as believers we are called to judge matters of the spirit.

1 Corinthians 2:15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.

I think Chapter 3 is interesting as well and I would like to type it in it's entirety but I would like to mention:

v 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ

v 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,

v 13 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is.

Now, if Mr Osteen's is not sure the foundation is Jesus Christ, I'm confident it will not stand the revelation of fire and he will be accountable. Not only for himself but the people of his flock as well.

Yes...I judge feel-good watered down doctrine as harmful.

I do not believe I judge the man...Mr Osteen...how am I to know if he has or will come to salvation. Again, if he is not sure if Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation...then he indeed is in need of our prayers. Not only for himself but for his flock as well. I do believe he is held to a higher accountability.

v 15 If anyone's works are burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire

God bless you Grace

Note to whomever it pertains to: perhaps we might want to check the condition of our hearts before we whip out our poison keyboards.

[Cris413]

Also note worthy, I think, is the importance of an anointed Pastor-Teacher who in giving the message straight from the Bible so that the ones who hear the message walk away with both encouragement and conviction.

When the message is straight from the Bible, I can be certain it's God talking....not the opinion of some speaker.

The messages that were most edifying to me were the messages that convicted my heart....and strengthened my understanding of grace and mercy. Not only for me but also the importance of bringing others to that grace and mercy.

Conviction in the areas of your life where sin exists and encouragement that there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. Also in the example of our Lord to correct those areas of sin.

I have a huge problem with any doctrine or inspirational teaching where the focus is on "self". Jesus teaches us to deny our selves and pick up our cross daily.

The focus of any christian walk/teaching in my opinion should be of service....not self.

God bless

[Nadiine]

This is for the OP & anyone that doesn't know about J Osteen's public interview w/ Larry King on CNN.
I strongly urge anyone who's supporting this man to read this & notice the STARTLING statements made (and lack of statements) that come from a "Christian evangelist".
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/20/lkl.01.html

To close, I read 1 person's post about how if just ONE person is saved thru his ministry, it's good.him being in ministry.... I say this, HOW MANY ARE HARMED & LOST SO THAT ONE IS SAVED?

& he doesn't quote much at all from the scriptures, and my brother who is a Pastor listens to his teachings & has found many of the verses he does use are taken out of their context & mistaught.

If that's the ONLY diet people are going to be spiritually fed, I highly suggest they get a good dentist - becuz eating only sweets will end up rotting your teeth out.

*other links: what Osteen is charging when he travels to speak: (this is true, my husband saw his ticket sales in Calif. here just a few mos. ago and they were at $100 a ticket)
- disclaimer: I haven't thoroughly searched these sites - just these pages I got from the search engine.

http://www.apprising.org/archives/2005/10/whats_that_you.html
http://www.letusreason.org/Popteac29.htm

[CelineDion]

Anyone whose ever read any of my posts know I very much stand up for tv preachers...being the product of my fathers media ministry but I have to agree that Pastor Joel...though a very very nice man does not stand very firmly for the standard of Christ. He has had SO SO many opportunitys to be an influence but has in a way let the Christian world down by not using these oppurtunities. Im not saying He's not a christian but I do feel he should start standing up for whats right and not what makes people feel hunky dory all the time.

[VCViking]

Why would anyone listen to a pastor who says this:




KING: What if you're Jewish or Muslim, you don't accept Christ at all?

OSTEEN: You know, I'm very careful about saying who would and wouldn't go to heaven. I don't know ...

KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong, aren't they?

OSTEEN: Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God with judge a person's heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus.

from CNN LARRY KING LIVE Interview With Joel Osteen
Aired June 20, 2005

[Nadiine]

Why would anyone listen to a pastor who says this:

KING: What if you're Jewish or Muslim, you don't accept Christ at all?

OSTEEN: You know, I'm very careful about saying who would and wouldn't go to heaven. I don't know ...

KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong, aren't they?

OSTEEN: Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God with judge a person's heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus.

from CNN LARRY KING LIVE Interview With Joel Osteen
Aired June 20, 2005
Yes, "wrong" is a PC buzzword, we can't use that evil word. (it offends people) :help:

That's why I posted the link to the full CNN interview, he also couldn't say that Jesus was the ONLY way to God (salvation).....
That was the one that did it for me. Imagine, a pastor that can't tell the world JESUS CHRIST IS THE ONLY WAY to God. good grief.

You have to wonder what "good" he's doing to save people.. who are they be saved to?? :confused:

[Nadiine]

Anyone whose ever read any of my posts know I very much stand up for tv preachers...being the product of my fathers media ministry but I have to agree that Pastor Joel...though a very very nice man does not stand very firmly for the standard of Christ. He has had SO SO many opportunitys to be an influence but has in a way let the Christian world down by not using these oppurtunities. Im not saying He's not a christian but I do feel he should start standing up for whats right and not what makes people feel hunky dory all the time.
First of all, I got Celine Dion's perfume for Christmas (the purple box? lol). I really LUV LUV it!!! :thumbsup: :cool:

Anyhoo, I'm like you, I don't like the attacks of every pastor on Christian tv. I like some of them & think they're very good.
& I feel the same as you about the troubles w/ Joel. Maybe God will change him - I should be :groupray: for him.
:angel:

[Cris413]

Anyone whose ever read any of my posts know I very much stand up for tv preachers...being the product of my fathers media ministry but I have to agree that Pastor Joel...though a very very nice man does not stand very firmly for the standard of Christ. He has had SO SO many opportunitys to be an influence but has in a way let the Christian world down by not using these oppurtunities. Im not saying He's not a christian but I do feel he should start standing up for whats right and not what makes people feel hunky dory all the time.

Yes...there are wonderful ministries on television. I for one am very happy my Pastor has a television ministry. I've really been blessed by a lot of television ministries.

Again it comes back to discernment. You know good teaching from bad teaching be it on television or the church down the street.

I know a lot of folks that go to Lakewood. Everyone says the same thing....I love his inspirational message. He only talks about the good stuff....and people really love it. The moment I try to share my concerns...they don't want to talk about it anymore.

So Lakewood to me isn't just a television ministry....it's the church down the street....misdirecting A LOT of people from the Word of God.

God bless

[Kelly]

larry king forces every single Christian guest to answer the "is Jesus is the only way to heaven?" question. It's an attempt to turn the non-Christian public against the guest.

[GraceLikeRainFallsDown]

larry king forces every single Christian guest to answer the "is Jesus is the only way to heaven?" question. It's an attempt to turn the non-Christian public against the guest.

Even if it is an attempt to create bias against a guest because they are Christian, a Pastor has an obligation to get the Truth out. Pastors know that the Word of God will offend some, but they are still supposed to claim it as truth. All Chrisitans, Pastors or not, should stand firm in their faith.

Mark 13:13 Everyone will hate you because of me, but those who stand firm to the end will be saved.

[Jesusloevsu]

http://www.christianforums.com/http://www.christianforums.com/YAY http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/5471/loljesusqv8.jpg

[Kelly]

Even if it is an attempt to create bias against a guest because they are Christian, a Pastor has an obligation to get the Truth out.

I know, I was just making the additional point. Other guests have remained true to the Word.

[NewChildofGod]

I am a member of Lakewood Church where Joel preaches. He is an awesome preacher! I would highly recommend anyone and everyone to either visit the church when you are in Houston! Or of course watch on television or podcast. You can visit www.lakewood.cc (http://www.lakewood.cc) or www.joelosteen.com (http://www.joelosteen.com). Also read his book, it is great!
I love Lakewood! You are welcomed with open arms!

[NewChildofGod]

I was in leadership in my last church (recently moved - need new church home). We were warned by the leaders of the church about Joel Osteen. Other leaders at the meeting had not nice things to say about his teaching.

So, I watched his broadcast (or part of it - got bored). I did not see him read from the Bible once only wave it around. I do not remember any quoting of Scripture from memory.

The main issue with him seems to be he does not teach the entire Gospel. He only focuses on the good things or blessings. He does not teach any warnings. I have heard others say he teaches from the "church of prosperity".

Of course he is popular if he only tells you about all the good things. But, that is deceptive to me. A leader needs to help their flock learn about the traps in life. How to deal with sin in their lives. About Hell and consequences.

He may be inspirational to listen to once in a while, but I would be leary of him being my main preacher. If he is not teaching the entire Bible, then to me he is a deceptive teacher.

This is just my opinion and the opinion of others I have talked too.
Sister why would you talk about another Christian like this? This is just what the enemy wants!
Even if I wasn't a member of Lakewood, which I am, it still upsets me when one Christian is talking about another.

Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

Proverbs 10:18 He that hideth hatred with lying lips, and he that uttereth a slander, is a fool.

Proverbs 10:19 In the multitude of words there wanteth not sin: but he that refraineth his lips is wise.

Proverbs 11:9 An hypocrite with his mouth destroyeth his neighbour: but through knowledge shall the just be delivered.

Proverbs 12:19 The lip of truth shall be established for ever: but a lying tongue is but for a moment.

Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven

James 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

James 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.

[NewChildofGod]

How many of you that are judging and talking about Joel Osteen have actually been to the church or to one of his events? How many of you have ever talked to the man? I do believe that we should question teachings or messages we hear, but some of you are judging matters you know nothing about. When you walk in his shoes, then tell me what you think of him and his followers. God bless all of you.
Here is what our church believes:

WE BELIEVE…the entire Bible is inspired by God, without error and the authority on which we base our faith, conduct and doctrine.
WE BELIEVE…in one God who exists in three distinct persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God who came to this earth as Savior of the world.
WE BELIEVE…Jesus died on the cross and shed His blood for our sins. We believe Jesus rose from the dead and is coming again. We believe that eternal salvation is found only by placing our faith in Jesus Christ and what He did for us on the cross.
WE BELIEVE…water baptism is a symbol of the cleansing power of the blood of Christ and an outward testimony to our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
WE BELIEVE…in the regular taking of Communion as an act of remembering what the Lord Jesus did for us on the cross.
WE BELIEVE…every believer should be in a growing relationship with Jesus by obeying God’s Word, yielding to the Holy Spirit and by being conformed to the image of Christ.
WE BELIEVE…as children of God, we are overcomers and more than conquerors and God intends for each of us to experience the abundant life He has in store for us.

[NewChildofGod]

Yes...there are wonderful ministries on television. I for one am very happy my Pastor has a television ministry. I've really been blessed by a lot of television ministries.

Again it comes back to discernment. You know good teaching from bad teaching be it on television or the church down the street.

I know a lot of folks that go to Lakeside. Everyone says the same thing....I love his inspirational message. He only talks about the good stuff....and people really love it. The moment I try to share my concerns...they don't want to talk about it anymore.

So Lakeside to me isn't just a television ministry....it's the church down the street....misdirecting A LOT of people from the Word of God.

God bless
It is Lakewood, not Lakeside. I am a member and I would love to talk with you about your concerns.
I may not be back on here until Monday so if you do post something and I don't respond right away that is why. Talk to you soon.

[Kelly]

God bless all of you.
Here is what our church believes:

Awesome, I'm really glad someone from his church is here. I have a few questions:

1)Is the message seen on his weekly TV show different from what you folks get each sunday?

2) What's it like going to a church so big. How do you connect with the body? Are there lots of home or small groups?

3) Do other pastors ever teach or is it always Joel?

4) Do you have midweek services or any communal services for deeper study?

Thanks in advance!

[Nadiine]

How many of you that are judging and talking about Joel Osteen have actually been to the church or to one of his events? How many of you have ever talked to the man? I do believe that we should question teachings or messages we hear, but some of you are judging matters you know nothing about. When you walk in his shoes, then tell me what you think of him and his followers. God bless all of you.
Here is what our church believes:

WE BELIEVE…the entire Bible is inspired by God, without error and the authority on which we base our faith, conduct and doctrine.
WE BELIEVE…in one God who exists in three distinct persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God who came to this earth as Savior of the world.
WE BELIEVE…Jesus died on the cross and shed His blood for our sins. We believe Jesus rose from the dead and is coming again. We believe that eternal salvation is found only by placing our faith in Jesus Christ and what He did for us on the cross.
WE BELIEVE…water baptism is a symbol of the cleansing power of the blood of Christ and an outward testimony to our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
WE BELIEVE…in the regular taking of Communion as an act of remembering what the Lord Jesus did for us on the cross.
WE BELIEVE…every believer should be in a growing relationship with Jesus by obeying God’s Word, yielding to the Holy Spirit and by being conformed to the image of Christ.
WE BELIEVE…as children of God, we are overcomers and more than conquerors and God intends for each of us to experience the abundant life He has in store for us.
Hi :wave:

I'm not here to attack you or your church members, or your Pastor.

I am here however, to shine a bright light on the message being given... statement of beliefs are just that. Belief alone isn't salvation tho - genuine placed FAITH is.

When Larry King asked Joel these probing & important questions concerning the gospel truth, quite frankly, he failed miserably.
When a man can't even claim that Islam is WRONG... & that he doesn't know if Muslims won't enter heaven, and when an evangelist can't even claim that JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY TO GOD (salvation), we should all take great pause & be alarmed!
(& those weren't the only problematic answers he gave either).

If that were my pastor, I would have immediately left that church without 1 reservation... being fed a steady diet of modern psychology & positive thinking isn't the gospel we're called to bring.

Here's what else heavily bothered me.. when speaking about his new book... he talked about how yes, he DID include bible verses in it, BUT HE STUCK THE VERSES IN THE BACK OF THE BOOK.
He wanted his book to be a message of HOPE, so the verses got jammed in the BACK if they cared to look at those, they could be found in that area... AS IF HIS POSITIVE WORDS ARE MORE POWERFUL HOPE THAN SCRIPTURE TRUTH?
God's word IS the POWER that changes hearts - not man's motivational speakings.
That spoke volumes to me when I heard him say that! :eek: :doh: :swoon:

THE GOSPEL IS THE HOPE. He's trying to give "hope" by telling folks "just hang in there, God will eventually bless you". "Be a GOOD person" "love". It's not about "just hang in there till the blessings get showered on you".
Most of what he offers, a NON Christian can preach & agree with!
It's basically a starvation diet. Just think good, happy thoughts till payday arrives. Be good, be happy, help others & think loving thoughts all day.

I don't need to go to your church to know his message, he's on tv daily... that's more than enough to get the message he's sending.

One other note I'd like to add, I don't watch him much at all anymore - but I do tune in periodically just to see if he's changed his message any.
What frightens me is this, I could actually preach his message at this point. I'm shocked people don't leave of boredom becuz he repeats the SAME MESSAGE nearly every service!
I almost know it verbatim. It's the same themes & messages, sprinkled with a few (very few) scriptures or stories....
How does a growing & strong Christian live off that type of spiritual food? (I PRAY people are doing their own personal bible study!) It's so shallow & superficial, it's scary!
WHERE'S THE MEAT OF THE WORD being given? It isn't meat, it's dessert.
And due to just those issues alone, I would RUN from his shepherding. People need more to grow by than pep talks & positive affirmations.

None of this is personal against you or your members, I'm only telling you that there is valid reason for the many criticisms that are being raised against his preaching since 2005.
btw, I used to watch his father regularly on tv and that man impressed me! He was teaching the true & FULL gospel.
:angel:

[Cris413]

It is Lakewood, not Lakeside. I am a member and I would love to talk with you about your concerns.
I may not be back on here until Monday so if you do post something and I don't respond right away that is why. Talk to you soon.

I knew I made the mistake when I went to bed last night. And had full intention of correcting it this morning...

I did read your post regarding Lakewood's mission statement and my prayer has always been that not all his flock are spirit starved.

I have to agree with Nadiine's reply. Mr Osteen simply does not stand to the test. I'm not saying he's a horrible man....he's just not a good Paster-Teacher and I'm concerned....especially in these times....he does more harm than good.

Concerning the Larry King interview, I can say with most certainty that had Larry King asked that question of Billy Graham, or Chuck Smith or Chuck Missler or Bob Coy or Ed Gaines or Tony Evans (the list could go on and on) he would have never gotten "I don't know" as an answer.

I am very concerned for Mr Osteen on many levels...but the man had opportunity to speak for Jesus and did everything but outright deny Him on Larry King.

I won't go on and on...but Mr Osteen has a huge responsibility that he is not living up to. God bless you sister if you are growing in spite of what you're being fed.

Ephesians 5:6 Let no one deceive you with empty words for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. (NKJV)

I would love Mr Osteen to do a teaching on Ephesians Chapter 5 or any teaching out of the Word for that matter. It would be awesome if this man...with the charisma and the following he has... actually taught the Word.

Thank you again for pointing out I typed Lakeside instead of Lakewood.

God bless

[CelineDion]

You know heres my thing...God is a God of Grace and mercy and I thank Him and praise HIm for that. He is the Lover of our soul and wonderful beyond imagination but He also has a standard of holiness that I am yet to hear pastor Joel preach on and I never ever ever form an opinion against someone unless I've read one of thier books and watched 2 or more episodes of there show...but everything is the same with him...it's all " Live your best life" ...What about living righteous and living holy and the fact that you cant live any way you want and yes he touches a bit on it but not like it should be touched on...I feel it's crucial to be specific and say " You cannot have sex outside of marriage, you cant listen to any music you want, you cant watch any movie you want, you cant hang out with anyone you want...there is a standard of holy living that needs to be upheld by the people of God." ...Christ didnt just focus on the good...that's just not how it's supposed to be done ...because it's NOT all good. Im sure he's a great person and you know what the fact that he has money and a show is AWESOME but I just think he should use it to preach the whole gospel and not just the sugary sweet part.

[VCViking]

We are to correct and judge brothers and sisters in the Lord without hypocrisy.

Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven.


This forbids hypocrisy and a condemining spirit from self righteousness.

[GraceLikeRainFallsDown]

Sister why would you talk about another Christian like this? This is just what the enemy wants!
Even if I wasn't a member of Lakewood, which I am, it still upsets me when one Christian is talking about another.



I am sorry I upset you with my opinion. I have nothing against the members of his church. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ. :)

I do not feel it is judging him to point out where his preaching is lacking (in my opinion). Only God has the right to judge him.

Any Chritian Pastor that will not preach the entire Truth of the Gospels (ex - Jesus is the only Way to the Father) I must be leary of since it contradicts the Bible. A Leader for God must stand firm in the Truth, even if it is not popular for the viewing TV audience.

I was glad to see you posted your Statement of Faith. I noticed that this is part of it:

WE BELIEVE…Jesus died on the cross and shed His blood for our sins. We believe Jesus rose from the dead and is coming again. We believe that eternal salvation is found ONLY by placing our faith in Jesus Christ and what He did for us on the cross.

If you look at the transcript of the Larry King interview. Joel may not necessarily believe that Jesus is the ONLY way to salvation. It appears from his own words that though he choses to have a relationship with Jesus, he just does not know. It scares me that he did not have the faith to say, "Yes, Larry, the Bible is very clear. Jesus is the only way of salvation."

If the Leader of the church is not willing to fully stand behind their Statement of Faith, they need to re-evaluate a few things. (just my opinion)

I do think he is a very nice person. I can see why many love him. He is a very good inspirational speaker. But, a Pastor has a huge obligation to God when leading a flock of any size. God is the one who will hold him ultimately accountable for his preaching. It really is between God and Joel.



God Bless.

[VCViking]

James 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.


Speaking evil is to slander or defame. James does not forbid confronting those in sin, which is commanded elsewhere in scripture: MATT. 18:15-17; ACTS 20:31; 1 COR. 4:14; COL. 1:28; TITUS 1:13, 2:15, 3:10.

Rather he condems careless, derogatory, critical, slanderous accusations.





KING: What if you're Jewish or Muslim, you don't accept Christ at all?

OSTEEN: You know, I'm very careful about saying who would and wouldn't go to heaven. I don't know ...

KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong, aren't they?

OSTEEN: Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong.




Why would you follow a pastor who denied Jesus to millions, if not billions, of people on national t.v.?

Matthew 10:33 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=10&verse=33&version=9&context=verse)
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

[Nadiine]

I am sorry I upset you with my opinion. I have nothing against the members of his church. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ. :)

I do not feel it is judging him to point out where his preaching is lacking (in my opinion). Only God has the right to judge him.

Any Chritian Pastor that will not preach the entire Truth of the Gospels (ex - Jesus is the only Way to the Father) I must be leary of since it contradicts the Bible. A Leader for God must stand firm in the Truth, even if it is not popular for the viewing TV audience.

I was glad to see you posted your Statement of Faith. I noticed that this is part of it:

WE BELIEVE…Jesus died on the cross and shed His blood for our sins. We believe Jesus rose from the dead and is coming again. We believe that eternal salvation is found ONLY by placing our faith in Jesus Christ and what He did for us on the cross.

If you look at the transcript of the Larry King interview. Joel may not necessarily believe that Jesus is the ONLY way to salvation. It appears from his own words that though he choses to have a relationship with Jesus, he just does not know. It scares me that he did not have the faith to say, "Yes, Larry, the Bible is very clear. Jesus is the only way of salvation."

If the Leader of the church is not willing to fully stand behind their Statement of Faith, they need to re-evaluate a few things. (just my opinion)

I do think he is a very nice person. I can see why many love him. He is a very good inspirational speaker. But, a Pastor has a huge obligation to God when leading a flock of any size. God is the one who will hold him ultimately accountable for his preaching. It really is between God and Joel. God Bless.
Exactly. That IS the issue directly. & there were even other problematic statements in the transcript... those 2 were huge tho.

I agree, this is nothing against the members that go there- my concern is, I HOPE they're getting spiritually fed in some other way from other teachers and/or personal devotional time (anything).

I have nothing against him personally, I don't know him. & I also agree w/ VCViking, this hasn't been slander, this is Christians using factual statements he's made that should concern them about his messages & teachings.

That's not personal attack or judging. We ARE called to judge what people teach tho. If we can't judge what we're being taught, then we're all in for some real trouble as we accept every other false teaching under the sun. :help: :swoon:

[Maiseyjo]

Occasionally I have watched Joel on TV. His message is not deep but I thought encouraging. Not what I would ever want a steady diet of but I didn't see much wrong with what he preached.

After what I read here, I went back and found the transcripts of what he said about Jesus not being the only way on Larry King. That dissapointed me so much. I truly think he DOES believe Jesus is the only way...but didn't want to say that on TV. While I understand the uncomfortableness of it...He still should not have wimped out. I'm sad.:sigh:

[Nadiine]

[quote=Nadiine;32545910]This is for the OP & anyone that doesn't know about J Osteen's public interview w/ Larry King on CNN.
I strongly urge anyone who's supporting this man to read this & notice the STARTLING statements made (and lack of statements) that come from a "Christian evangelist".
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/20/lkl.01.html

To close, I read 1 person's post about how if just ONE person is saved thru his ministry, it's good.him being in ministry.... I say this, HOW MANY ARE HARMED & LOST SO THAT ONE IS SAVED?

& he doesn't quote much at all from the scriptures, and my brother who is a Pastor listens to his teachings & has found many of the verses he does use are taken out of their context & mistaught.

If that's the ONLY diet people are going to be spiritually fed, I highly suggest they get a good dentist - becuz eating only sweets will end up rotting your teeth out.

*other links: what Osteen is charging when he travels to speak: (this is true, my husband saw his ticket sales in Calif. here just a few mos. ago and they were at $100 a ticket)
- disclaimer: I haven't thoroughly searched these sites - just these pages I got from the search engine.

http://www.apprising.org/archives/2005/10/whats_that_you.html
http://www.letusreason.org/Popteac29.htm

[NewChildofGod]

Awesome, I'm really glad someone from his church is here. I have a few questions:

1)Is the message seen on his weekly TV show different from what you folks get each sunday?

2) What's it like going to a church so big. How do you connect with the body? Are there lots of home or small groups?

3) Do other pastors ever teach or is it always Joel?

4) Do you have midweek services or any communal services for deeper study?

Thanks in advance!
The message is slight different because for time purposes, they may have to edit some parts to make it fit in the time slot.
It is not hard to connect with other people because we do have home groups, plus many many resources at the church. I love it and travel about 30 minutes to get there and fight some traffic. We have Saturday and Sunday services to accommodate the amount of people that go to the church.
We do have other pastors that teach and special guests, also on Wednesday nights his brother or sister usually preaches.
I am really glad you wanted to ask questions because I LOVE this church. I would fight traffic for 5 hours to attend Lakewood. The praise and worship there is also sooo wonderful.
If you want to ask anything else, ask away.

[NewChildofGod]

Hi :wave:

I'm not here to attack you or your church members, or your Pastor.

I am here however, to shine a bright light on the message being given... statement of beliefs are just that. Belief alone isn't salvation tho - genuine placed FAITH is.

When Larry King asked Joel these probing & important questions concerning the gospel truth, quite frankly, he failed miserably.
When a man can't even claim that Islam is WRONG... & that he doesn't know if Muslims won't enter heaven, and when an evangelist can't even claim that JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY TO GOD (salvation), we should all take great pause & be alarmed!
(& those weren't the only problematic answers he gave either).

If that were my pastor, I would have immediately left that church without 1 reservation... being fed a steady diet of modern psychology & positive thinking isn't the gospel we're called to bring.

Here's what else heavily bothered me.. when speaking about his new book... he talked about how yes, he DID include bible verses in it, BUT HE STUCK THE VERSES IN THE BACK OF THE BOOK.
He wanted his book to be a message of HOPE, so the verses got jammed in the BACK if they cared to look at those, they could be found in that area... AS IF HIS POSITIVE WORDS ARE MORE POWERFUL HOPE THAN SCRIPTURE TRUTH?
God's word IS the POWER that changes hearts - not man's motivational speakings.
That spoke volumes to me when I heard him say that! :eek: :doh: :swoon:

THE GOSPEL IS THE HOPE. He's trying to give "hope" by telling folks "just hang in there, God will eventually bless you". "Be a GOOD person" "love". It's not about "just hang in there till the blessings get showered on you".
Most of what he offers, a NON Christian can preach & agree with!
It's basically a starvation diet. Just think good, happy thoughts till payday arrives. Be good, be happy, help others & think loving thoughts all day.

I don't need to go to your church to know his message, he's on tv daily... that's more than enough to get the message he's sending.

One other note I'd like to add, I don't watch him much at all anymore - but I do tune in periodically just to see if he's changed his message any.
What frightens me is this, I could actually preach his message at this point. I'm shocked people don't leave of boredom becuz he repeats the SAME MESSAGE nearly every service!
I almost know it verbatim. It's the same themes & messages, sprinkled with a few (very few) scriptures or stories....
How does a growing & strong Christian live off that type of spiritual food? (I PRAY people are doing their own personal bible study!) It's so shallow & superficial, it's scary!
WHERE'S THE MEAT OF THE WORD being given? It isn't meat, it's dessert.
And due to just those issues alone, I would RUN from his shepherding. People need more to grow by than pep talks & positive affirmations.

None of this is personal against you or your members, I'm only telling you that there is valid reason for the many criticisms that are being raised against his preaching since 2005.
btw, I used to watch his father regularly on tv and that man impressed me! He was teaching the true & FULL gospel.
:angel:
You have to understand that Joel is called to be an encourager...he would be the first one to say that. He does preach from the Bible at every service.
I hear so many people that are non-Christians RUN from preachers or Christians because they want to "shove" the Bible or scriptures down there throat! I have heard that soo many times, including coming from my mouth before I was saved. Joel's way of talking to others and preaching really made me want to learn more about why he was always happy and joyful. Whatever he had, I wanted it! And I found out because I started going to Lakewood. I learned that the way to get this was to have a relationship with our Father, to accept the Lord as my Savior, to read and study the Bible, and to fellowship with others. Believe me, I would have NEVER gotten the message from anyone else. I would have never stopped to listen to someone that was "shoving" the Bible down my throat. And people have tried! People tried to get my attention by telling me that I was going to hell, that how I lived was wrong, and I was wrong. All those people made me do was run the other way and RUN fast!
I am just saddened because I have heard non-Christians in the media talk about Joel and Lakewood, but when it comes from "Christians" in a harsh and judging way, it makes my heart cry.
God Bless!

[NewChildofGod]

I knew I made the mistake when I went to bed last night. And had full intention of correcting it this morning...

I did read your post regarding Lakewood's mission statement and my prayer has always been that not all his flock are spirit starved.

I have to agree with Nadiine's reply. Mr Osteen simply does not stand to the test. I'm not saying he's a horrible man....he's just not a good Paster-Teacher and I'm concerned....especially in these times....he does more harm than good.

Concerning the Larry King interview, I can say with most certainty that had Larry King asked that question of Billy Graham, or Chuck Smith or Chuck Missler or Bob Coy or Ed Gaines or Tony Evans (the list could go on and on) he would have never gotten "I don't know" as an answer.

I am very concerned for Mr Osteen on many levels...but the man had opportunity to speak for Jesus and did everything but outright deny Him on Larry King.

I won't go on and on...but Mr Osteen has a huge responsibility that he is not living up to. God bless you sister if you are growing in spite of what you're being fed.

Ephesians 5:6 Let no one deceive you with empty words for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. (NKJV)

I would love Mr Osteen to do a teaching on Ephesians Chapter 5 or any teaching out of the Word for that matter. It would be awesome if this man...with the charisma and the following he has... actually taught the Word.

Thank you again for pointing out I typed Lakeside instead of Lakewood.

God bless
Hi Cris413! About Joel actually teaching the Word, he does and at every sermon. :)

[NewChildofGod]

There will always be someone that judges or criticizes every one of us, especially someone that is doing so well. Also when a church has grown like it has in 7 or 8 years, all the judges and critics come out.
I know that Lakewood and Pastor Joel is for me, may not be for you, but it is for me. And I thank any of you that are praying for us, because I also pray for the pastors and leaders of this world. It is much appreciated.

[Nadiine]

There will always be someone that judges or criticizes every one of us, especially someone that is doing so well. Also when a church has grown like it has in 7 or 8 years, all the judges and critics come out.
I know that Lakewood and Pastor Joel is for me, may not be for you, but it is for me. And I thank any of you that are praying for us, because I also pray for the pastors and leaders of this world. It is much appreciated.
I was hoping you wouldn't see people judging HIM as a person, or any members there. None of us know people's spiritual conditions - only God knows that.

Church growth actually does not prove that a church is spiritually healthy; in fact sometimes it can be quite the contrary! Never monitor a church's health just by that.

Some of us have shown you valid proof as to why we take issue w/ his teaching... that isn't wrongful judging or judging only becuz the church is growing & now we're coming out of the woodwork in attack.
We WANT churches to grow & thrive - just that we want them to grow becuz the FULL TRUTH of the gospel is being promoted... not mostly segments of fluff.

I'm glad you enjoy your church... the question would be would you enjoy it if he DID preach on sin issues? on condemnation/God's justice? etc?
How many might leave that huge church if he preached on other things that are taught in scripture?
Who knows... we may never know if he doesn't choose to preach the whole counsel of God.
peace :angel:

[Nadiine]

You have to understand that Joel is called to be an encourager...he would be the first one to say that. He does preach from the Bible at every service.
But NewChild, an "encourager" is NOT A SHEPHERD! OR PASTOR. An encourager isn't an evangelist & shouldn't be pastoring & overseeing over a church.
He should then be an ASST. pastor, who brings that to people separately.
Pastor/shepherds give God's full counsel to members to spiritually feed them.
Encouraging & self esteem are not pastoral positions.

I hear so many people that are non-Christians RUN from preachers or Christians because they want to "shove" the Bible or scriptures down there throat!

Then guess what, THEY DON'T WANT GOD! Let them GO then! Did Jesus ever change His message that offended the people so much just becuz they didn't wanna hear His verses?
Never.
When they attacked him for his truth, did he apologize & tell them he'll stop saying it? Stop quoting it? No.
If people are so repulsed by the Bible, then they do not want the Lord either. THat's fine then. Those who come to church need to hear truth.. if that makes them leave, let them go.
There are TONS of churches that thrive (incl. the one I go to) that preach straight out of the bible, chapter by chapter in a whole study series... how is it we thrive & grow??

Watering down or not giving the entire truth leads people to being ignorant of truth. What happens when they DO find out God condemns people eternally? Or what sins God forbids etc.?
We don't change our message for people's comfort. We give the truth IN LOVE and kindness.

[LittleladyinChrist]

I say this with all love, because I pray people will turn away from false teaching and love the Bible and its truth. (with sometimes hurts)

POPULAR CHARISMATIC SPEAKER REFUSES TO SAY THOSE OUTSIDE OF CHRIST GO TO HELL. Friday Church News Notes, July 8, 2005 (Fundamental Baptist Information Service, www.wayoflife.org fbns@wayoflife.org, 866-295-4143) – In a June 20th interview on the international cable television program Larry King Live, the pastor of one of America’s largest churches said that he does not know who goes to heaven or who goes to hell. When asked if atheists go to heaven, Joel Osteen of Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas, replied, “I’m going to let God be the judge of who goes to heaven and hell” (Charismanow.com (http://www.charismanow.com/), June 30). When asked where Jews or Muslims go if they don’t accept Jesus Christ, Osteen replied, “You know, I’m very careful about saying who would and wouldn’t go to heaven; I don’t know.” In a letter posted to his web site, Osteen later apologized for being “unclear on the very thing in which I have dedicated my life.” He said: “In my desire not to alienate the people that Jesus came to save, I did not clearly communicate the convictions that I hold so precious.” In fact, in his statements on Larry King Live Osteen was indeed communicating the core conviction of his church-growth philosophy, which is to preach “positive truth.” He has not drawn a crowd of tens of thousands by preaching clearly on eternal Hell as the Lord Jesus Christ did, and even in his “apology” Osteen did not plainly state that those outside of Christ go to an eternal fiery Hell. When Osteen packed out the Coliseum in Charlotte, North Carolina, in March of this year, a local news reporter enthused, “Osteen doesn’t rail against gays or thump a Bible, like so many others do” (“Evangelist: Don’t Worry, Be Happy,” The Charlotte Observer, March 8, p. E1). Osteen’s message was, “Make a decision before you leave this place, you’re going to get happy where you are.” This is a direct fulfillment of 2 Timothy 4:3-4: “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears, and they shall turn away their ears from the truth and shall be turned unto fables.” Beware of ear tickling preachers who are willing to give a wicked, apostate generation a soft, new kind of Christianity that we do not see in Scripture.

[GraceLikeRainFallsDown]

" 2 Timothy 4:3-4: “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears, and they shall turn away their ears from the truth and shall be turned unto fables.” Beware of ear tickling preachers who are willing to give a wicked, apostate generation a soft, new kind of Christianity that we do not see in Scripture"

Thank you for posting that article LittleladyinChrist. :wave:

I think that the end of the article and 2 Timothy 4:3-4 sum it all up.

[allhart]

What do you guys know about him? I have heard his name, but I haven't really heard him speak or read his books. I overheard someone talking about him, but I don't know much about him, so I couldn't really join the discussion.

One of my friend went to one of his senimars weekend talks and show all class.He walks a thin line on Christian beliefs and ethics. He supporting that you make things happen almost like more than GOD. Like GOD isn't in control as much as you are in your LIFE . He pushes the envelope way to far and to much for me.

[Pasat_14]

I have a question about Joels church.

How often does he encourage a relationship with Jesus Christ? I've read his book and heard some of his sermons but he never mentions a relationship with Christ. Our spiritual life is way more important than our one on earth. Our relationship with Christ lasts for eternity but the things here on earth on last as long as we are on here.

This is only from my experience with him, I'm just wondering if he's any different when he's preaching at church. I'm not trying to attack him or anything as I know people who have been encouraged and helped by him!

[Cris413]

Hi Cris413! About Joel actually teaching the Word, he does and at every sermon. :)
Hi NewChildofGod,

I totally understand defending Mr Osteen. I would defend Pastor Bob with my dying breath.

I would very much like to encourage you to check out Pastor Bob Coy's teachings. And I will make a commitment to check out Mr Osteen. I have never made it past the first several minutes...but I will watch again and with a sincere open mind.

But I would like a commitment from you as well to check out Pastor Bob Coy. You can catch him on television here in Houston on KLTJ channel 22 at 12:30 CDT on Sundays. If you have cable he's also on Daystar Network same time slot.

Or you can see videocast at www.activeword.org (http://www.activeword.org/). All of his teachings are archived so you could literally go straight through the bible with Him from Genesis 1 through Revelation 22. That might take some time though. ;)

I promise you sister....you will be amazed at how quickly you will grow in the Spirit with a steady and balanced diet of OT and NT teaching.

Pastor Bob is an excellent Pastor-Teacher and his practical application of teaching gets me through every facet of my life.

Some do criticize him sometimes for the humor he injects into his teaching (no holy laughter just plain humor)...but trust me he can also be very very serious when Scripture directs it.

When I first started going to Calvary Chapel Ft Lauderdale...about 15 years ago...we had about 3,000 people crammed into a warehouse....Now CC Ft Lauderdale serves about 22,000 brothers and sisters...all this growth from a church that doesn't even ask for an offering. We consider your finances are between you and God ...not between you and the church. So IMO this is a church God built...not man. (Oh how I miss this church) I haven't found a home church here in Houston yet...CC Ft Laud and Pastor Bob set my standards pretty high :blush: but I praise God I can still get the Bible Studies on line and on TV.

I'm suggesting Pastor Bob because I'm so familiar with him and I know without any doubt or any hesitation he is truly an anointed man of God. I grew more there in 4 years than I did in the 10years before finding CC FT Laud.

I'm not suggesting you not go to Lakewood...fellowship and worship are important too...but I will be praying you will include hanging with Pastor Bob for awhile and see what a healthy diet of God's Word does for your spiritual growth.

As you study with Pastor Bob...keep your Bible handy...you will surely need it. Keep markers where the different books are so you can quickly move to them with the teaching... 'cause believe me...you will be going through the Bible...not just hitting on a few verses. He mainly uses NKJV but often refers to other translations as well as the original language. Also have a notebook and pen ready...he usually gives notes as well.

It will be AWESOME!

I'll be praying for you sister and looking forward to what you have to say about Pastor Bob's teachings.

God bless!

[PassionateOne]

One of my friend went to one of his senimars weekend talks and show all class.He walks a thin line on Christian beliefs and ethics. He supporting that you make things happen almost like more than GOD. Like GOD isn't in control as much as you are in your LIFE . He pushes the envelope way to far and to much for me.

Sorry, that's not true, here's some chapters in his book:

Chapter3: God has more on store!
Chpt 19: Let God bring justice into your life.
Chpt 22: Trusting God's timing.
Chpt 24:Trusting God when life doesn't make sense.

Mostly his whole book, even if it doesn't have "God" in the titles of his chapters, teaches you to turn your life and trust over to God.

I have a question about Joels church.

How often does he encourage a relationship with Jesus Christ? I've read his book and heard some of his sermons but he never mentions a relationship with Christ. Our spiritual life is way more important than our one on earth. Our relationship with Christ lasts for eternity but the things here on earth on last as long as we are on here.

This is only from my experience with him, I'm just wondering if he's any different when he's preaching at church. I'm not trying to attack him or anything as I know people who have been encouraged and helped by him!

Here's an ending statement from his book:

"Each week, I close our international TV broadcast by giving the audience an opportunity to make Jesus the Lord of their lives. I'd like to extend that same opportunity to you.
Are you at peace with God? A void exists in every persons heart that only God can fill. Will you pray with me today? Just say, 'Lord Jesus, I repent of my sins. I ask You come into my heart. I make You my Lord and Savior."

Hmmmnnnn....interesting, AND he quotes bible scriptures allll thru his book.

[VCViking]

But NewChild, an "encourager" is NOT A SHEPHERD! OR PASTOR. An encourager isn't an evangelist & shouldn't be pastoring & overseeing over a church.


:thumbsup:

[VCViking]

Here's an ending statement from his book:

"Each week, I close our international TV broadcast by giving the audience an opportunity to make Jesus the Lord of their lives. I'd like to extend that same opportunity to you.
Are you at peace with God? A void exists in every persons heart that only God can fill. Will you pray with me today? Just say, 'Lord Jesus, I repent of my sins. I ask You come into my heart. I make You my Lord and Savior."

Hmmmnnnn....interesting, AND he quotes bible scriptures allll thru his book.




He should of did that on Larry King.

[Pasat_14]

He should of did that on Larry King.

I agree!:thumbsup:



Here's an ending statement from his book:

"Each week, I close our international TV broadcast by giving the audience an opportunity to make Jesus the Lord of their lives. I'd like to extend that same opportunity to you.
Are you at peace with God? A void exists in every persons heart that only God can fill. Will you pray with me today? Just say, 'Lord Jesus, I repent of my sins. I ask You come into my heart. I make You my Lord and Savior."

Hmmmnnnn....interesting, AND he quotes bible scriptures allll thru his book.

Yes, this is the first step to having a relationship with Christ. But does he ever preach the importance of having Christ as your best friend? Like not just a paragraph, but a whole sermon or something.

Also, I have his book and have been reading it. I'm up to chapter 11 now. I've noticed that when he quotes the Bible a lot of the time he won't put the references in..which can get annoying, but more importantly I feel he takes the verses out of context. A lot of them are referring to Heaven but Joel makes it seem as though they're refferring to earth.

[StrongxxInxxHim]

Ive lived in Houston my entire life so ive seen him many times as well as his father before him.

I have also met him a few times.

He has a very sweet spirit. Very gentle. Soft spoken. Not harsh.
His father was kind of harsh and loud but still a nice man.

I love Joel. Hes amazing. His wife Victoria is also wonderful although ive never met her in person I have heard her speak at Lakewood many times.

[Nadiine]

I have a question about Joels church.

How often does he encourage a relationship with Jesus Christ? I've read his book and heard some of his sermons but he never mentions a relationship with Christ. Our spiritual life is way more important than our one on earth. Our relationship with Christ lasts for eternity but the things here on earth on last as long as we are on here.
Better, how often does he teach WHO GOD IS... other than a heavenly genie up there waiting to shower blessings on you if only you'll "hang in there" and WAIT a little bit longer for your motherload to come in.

Most of the deeper teachings of scripture are ignored. Serious issues & information we need.

Just yesterday I watched a tv sermon by Bayless Conner? It was what causes people to fall away from God (steps to apostacy)... He gave scripture backup & listed how these things creep in our lives & steal us away from where we once were.
& since I took notes, I'll share them:

1) false teaching -1 Tim 4:1-2
2) disobeying your conscience 1 Tim. 4:3
3) persecution Mt. 10:34, Mt 24:9-10 (turning into a coward upon attacks and shrinking back from service)
4) love of the world (Lot's wife looking back) 2 Tim 4:9-10, 1 John 2:15-17

Now, THAT was a helpful sermon; warning us of the pitfalls - how we can start to stumble & fall away from God. THAT IS MEAT of the word. That is teaching to grow by.

Encouraging isn't enough, what good is encouraging if you're starting to crumble in any of the above conditions?
Just HANG IN THERE, it'll get better? People NEED meat of the Word to KEEP FROM the problems or how to recognize the problems and/or symptoms.

That is what a true Shepherd will bring his flock on a continual basis.

[indagroove]

Originally Posted by marke http://www3.christianforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=32529983#post32529983)
If a single person comes to Jesus as a result of Joel Olsteen's actions that will be...


A modern miracle!

I work with many Hindu's and saw a Joel Olsten book on the desk of one of my Hindu friends. I asked about it and he said He and His wife saw Olsten on TV, and it made them want to know more about Jesus. They on the verge of acceptng Jesus. They are deeply spiritual in their Hindu culture, so it is no small step. I am picturing them converting, and then spreading the Gospel to the entrie Hindu community around here. Now wouldn't that bring Glory to God.


Joel took over when his father died. It won't do much for you if you are looking for a hard hitting bible teaching sermon. Lakewood Church is more of a "Lukewarm" Laodicean church.

This ministry did not start out as the mega televangelist that it appears. The church was founded by John Olsten in 1959 in a converted feed store.

I would like to see him dive into scripture, but I guess for a 30 minute segment, he just caters to the seekers.

[Nadiine]

I work with many Hindu's and saw a Joel Olsten book on the desk of one of my Hindu friends. I asked about it and he said He and His wife saw Olsten on TV, and it made them want to know more about Jesus. They on the verge of acceptng Jesus. They are deeply spiritual in their Hindu culture, so it is no small step. I am picturing them converting, and then spreading the Gospel to the entrie Hindu community around here. Now wouldn't that bring Glory to God.

Joel took over when his father died. It won't do much for you if you are looking for a hard hitting bible teaching sermon. Lakewood Church is more of a "Lukewarm" Laodicean church.

This ministry did not start out as the mega televangelist that it appears. The church was founded by John Olsten in 1959 in a converted feed store.

I would like to see him dive into scripture, but I guess for a 30 minute segment, he just caters to the seekers.
(not directed at this post) -
I think we should get one fact straight, GOD CAN USE THE SAVED & LOST, GOOD AND BAD to reach people.

Just becuz God can use something to draw you to Himself doesn't mean it's a GODLY person, ministry, group, org., or anything else.
God uses everything for His purposes, dark or light.

We need to stop thinking things like, "well, this can't be bad, becuz people found the Lord thru it". Or, "this helped so & so, therefore, it MUST be annointed by God.
That's totally false.

God used Pharaoh's hard heart to show Israel His power & goodness. God sent lying spirits to work on someone to lead them to do His purpose.
God can use good or bad to reach & draw people to Himself, we cannot just leap to the assumption that it then must be TRUE and righteous.

I agree w/ this post, in that I believe it is one of the churches spoken of in Rev. as in trouble... it's basically led by a Tony Robbin's motivational type speaker who uses some scripture within the message.
I say that becuz anytime preachers of substance preach the Whole truth/counsel of God's word today, they get attacked for using 'hateful' or 'harsh' words... that they aren't "positive enough" or "gentle"... Joel's type of teaching promotes that PC agenda.
So anyone preaching the MEAT of God's word is attacked for being too fundamental or harsh... when it's the gospel message.

Just becuz someone says "GOD" in their sermon doesn't mean they're Shepherds of God or annointed by Him to teach/lead. I'm not judging the man's salvation; that's not my place, but I DO challenge his position in leading a church & his watered down, motivational, pop-psychology messages.

[Kelly]

I read a thing were many converts in India do not grasp (or haven't been properly explained) that Jesus is the only way. I guess it's not uncommon to see a picture of Jesus, next to pictures of Vishnu and Ganesh on the mantle in people's homes. Introducing them to Christ through a ministry that won't step out in faith and claim Christ is the only true pathway to salvation just compounds this sort of thing.

[PassionateOne]

People may not like him or say he doesn't follow the scripture of the bible or whatever you may say......but all I know is he has taught me to have a closer RL with God and when things in my life has started getting out of control......Joel Osteen has taught me to put all my faith in God and trust in Him that everything is working out the way He intends it.
So, for ME, it was a blessing that I came across his book at a time when I really needed it!

Again, I think it's sad when people focus on the Larry King interview. Okay, so he 'waffled' a bit when he was asked what people should believe......no, that wasn't great, but again he was trying to appeal to the 'masses'.....are you trying to tell me he is the only person that has ever done this?!

[Nadiine]

People may not like him or say he doesn't follow the scripture of the bible or whatever you may say......but all I know is he has taught me to have a closer RL with God and when things in my life has started getting out of control......Joel Osteen has taught me to put all my faith in God and trust in Him that everything is working out the way He intends it.
So, for ME, it was a blessing that I came across his book at a time when I really needed it!

Again, I think it's sad when people focus on the Larry King interview. Okay, so he 'waffled' a bit when he was asked what people should believe......no, that wasn't great, but again he was trying to appeal to the 'masses'.....are you trying to tell me he is the only person that has ever done this?!
On national tv? NO. But it wasnt' ONLY tv... his messages don't relay the answers he was asked by Larry King.
He doesnt' bother preaching on ANY topics that are exlusivistic to Jesus Christ being the ONLY way to God, or Christ being GOD (for that matter)... or to repent, or how to steer away from sin, what sins are, that you can't have any gods (thing) above God... or anything else.
It's just Tony Robbins plus some verses.

He doesn't waffle becuz no one puts the real issues to him to force him to answer; he JUST AVOIDS THEM ALL.

Encouragers aren't PASTORS. Pastors Feed their sheep, not motivationally keep them inspired alone - which is my biggest peeve w/ his preaching (which I could literally rehearse for you, I know it all by heart).

Help doesn't mean they're in the right position - a quick read of Rev. 2 will show you that there are many Shepherds & churches, but not that they're all in the will of God.

[GregoryTurner]

I would just like to put $0.001 in. If everyone would take a look around and see what is happening in the world, all people need to hear and/or be reminded that Jesus is the ONLY way to salvation and there are reprocussions for those who choose not to believe. I do not watch Joel Osteen. I have a few times and have even read the book. I think it is great that he motivates people towards the promises that God has for them. That is a good thing but sheep in any fold also need to be motivated as to what could and will happen to many if they do not know Jesus. Even in Rev. somewhere Jesus says, "Not everyone who says Lord, Lord..."

A pastor once told me that God places great responsibility on pastors because it is a pastor's job to feed His sheep... I do not know if Osteen is "feeding" his sheep or "scratching" their ears... God has a purpose for Osteen, let Him handle it. If he does not work for you or you do not follow his teaching, move on to someone else. He is reaching someone for the Kingdom, I hope; and if not, the blood of the flock will be on the hands of the shepherd/pastor if God's people are not fed correctly...

g

I guess I will have to see for myself if Osteen's teachings are biblical or not. He may be a motivational kind of person. Thequestion that comes to mind right now for me is,"Is Joel teaching milk or meat?"

[GregoryTurner]

Lakewood Church is more of a "Lukewarm" Laodicean church.


That statement is a scary one...

Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth


If that statement is a true statement, I will be sure to keep my distance from Lakewood, its teachings, and give my book of "best life" away to a new believer...

g

[GregoryTurner]

Please excuse my ramblings here but I read a post above that talked about John Osteen being harsh.

Sometimes, with God's direction, harshness is the only way that some will listen. Do you think that Jesus' Sermon on the Mount was hush, hush quiet talking? How many peolpe were there to hear? They did not have microphones and amps and pa systems, etc... Jesus was a loud preacher! Very bold and yet very loving at the same time. I am compelled to go and re-read Matthew 5... I thank you:)

[CelineDion]

I just want to know from the person who attends Lakewood ...Does Joel ever preach on holiness ( what's right and wrong specifically) and living righteous before the Lord?

[Izdaari]

I wouldn't say that what he teaches in his half-hour TV sermons is complete, and it's true that he doesn't open his Bible that often on the show... but it is all good stuff and all based on Biblical principles. I don't know how well his flock at Lakewood is doing, but I know listening to Joel sometimes does me a lot of good.

[arielette]

He seems to be a feel good pastor. Usually starting out with a joke and basically telling everyone to have a good attitude because God is with us. I don't believe I have ever learned anything from him.

[marke]

I wouldn't say that what he teaches in his half-hour TV sermons is complete, and it's true that he doesn't open his Bible that often on the show... but it is all good stuff and all based on Biblical principles. I don't know how well his flock at Lakewood is doing, but I know listening to Joel sometimes does me a lot of good.
Me too. His message was excellent last week.

[marke]

He seems to be a feel good pastor. Usually starting out with a joke and basically telling everyone to have a good attitude because God is with us. I don't believe I have ever learned anything from him.
That's so sad.

Perhaps you will the next time.

God bless.

[marke]

I agree!:thumbsup:



Yes, this is the first step to having a relationship with Christ. But does he ever preach the importance of having Christ as your best friend? Like not just a paragraph, but a whole sermon or something.

Also, I have his book and have been reading it. I'm up to chapter 11 now. I've noticed that when he quotes the Bible a lot of the time he won't put the references in..which can get annoying, but more importantly I feel he takes the verses out of context. A lot of them are referring to Heaven but Joel makes it seem as though they're refferring to earth.
The kingdom of heaven is within according to Jesus.

You too can find it. Open your heart and experience the joy of the Lord.

God Bless.

[marke]

Better, how often does he teach WHO GOD IS... other than a heavenly genie up there waiting to shower blessings on you if only you'll "hang in there" and WAIT a little bit longer for your motherload to come in.

Most of the deeper teachings of scripture are ignored. Serious issues & information we need.

Just yesterday I watched a tv sermon by Bayless Conner? It was what causes people to fall away from God (steps to apostacy)... He gave scripture backup & listed how these things creep in our lives & steal us away from where we once were.
& since I took notes, I'll share them:

1) false teaching -1 Tim 4:1-2
2) disobeying your conscience 1 Tim. 4:3
3) persecution Mt. 10:34, Mt 24:9-10 (turning into a coward upon attacks and shrinking back from service)
4) love of the world (Lot's wife looking back) 2 Tim 4:9-10, 1 John 2:15-17

Now, THAT was a helpful sermon; warning us of the pitfalls - how we can start to stumble & fall away from God. THAT IS MEAT of the word. That is teaching to grow by.

Encouraging isn't enough, what good is encouraging if you're starting to crumble in any of the above conditions?
Just HANG IN THERE, it'll get better? People NEED meat of the Word to KEEP FROM the problems or how to recognize the problems and/or symptoms.

That is what a true Shepherd will bring his flock on a continual basis.

If you will not Hear the truth, No one can tell you.

[marke]

I work with many Hindu's and saw a Joel Olsten book on the desk of one of my Hindu friends. I asked about it and he said He and His wife saw Olsten on TV, and it made them want to know more about Jesus. They on the verge of acceptng Jesus. They are deeply spiritual in their Hindu culture, so it is no small step. I am picturing them converting, and then spreading the Gospel to the entrie Hindu community around here. Now wouldn't that bring Glory to God.


Joel took over when his father died. It won't do much for you if you are looking for a hard hitting bible teaching sermon. Lakewood Church is more of a "Lukewarm" Laodicean church.

This ministry did not start out as the mega televangelist that it appears. The church was founded by John Olsten in 1959 in a converted feed store.

I would like to see him dive into scripture, but I guess for a 30 minute segment, he just caters to the seekers.
I hope the Hindu folks will be saved.

I feel so sorry for those who are trashing Joel. God put him in that position just as God put "W" in his job. I note many defend the actions of "W" and trash Joel for his actions. Man, I wouldn't like to be them on the day of Judgement.

Sad, sad, sad.

God bless and thank you for the encouraging word about the Hindu folks.

[marke]

(not directed at this post) -
I think we should get one fact straight, GOD CAN USE THE SAVED & LOST, GOOD AND BAD to reach people.

Just becuz God can use something to draw you to Himself doesn't mean it's a GODLY person, ministry, group, org., or anything else.
God uses everything for His purposes, dark or light.

We need to stop thinking things like, "well, this can't be bad, becuz people found the Lord thru it". Or, "this helped so & so, therefore, it MUST be annointed by God.
That's totally false.

God used Pharaoh's hard heart to show Israel His power & goodness. God sent lying spirits to work on someone to lead them to do His purpose.
God can use good or bad to reach & draw people to Himself, we cannot just leap to the assumption that it then must be TRUE and righteous.

I agree w/ this post, in that I believe it is one of the churches spoken of in Rev. as in trouble... it's basically led by a Tony Robbin's motivational type speaker who uses some scripture within the message.
I say that becuz anytime preachers of substance preach the Whole truth/counsel of God's word today, they get attacked for using 'hateful' or 'harsh' words... that they aren't "positive enough" or "gentle"... Joel's type of teaching promotes that PC agenda.
So anyone preaching the MEAT of God's word is attacked for being too fundamental or harsh... when it's the gospel message.

Just becuz someone says "GOD" in their sermon doesn't mean they're Shepherds of God or annointed by Him to teach/lead. I'm not judging the man's salvation; that's not my place, but I DO challenge his position in leading a church & his watered down, motivational, pop-psychology messages.

If you will not Hear the truth, No one can tell you.
I just feel so sorry for what you are doing to yourself.

[marke]

I would just like to put $0.001 in. If everyone would take a look around and see what is happening in the world, all people need to hear and/or be reminded that Jesus is the ONLY way to salvation and there are reprocussions for those who choose not to believe. I do not watch Joel Osteen. I have a few times and have even read the book. I think it is great that he motivates people towards the promises that God has for them. That is a good thing but sheep in any fold also need to be motivated as to what could and will happen to many if they do not know Jesus. Even in Rev. somewhere Jesus says, "Not everyone who says Lord, Lord..."

A pastor once told me that God places great responsibility on pastors because it is a pastor's job to feed His sheep... I do not know if Osteen is "feeding" his sheep or "scratching" their ears... God has a purpose for Osteen, let Him handle it. If he does not work for you or you do not follow his teaching, move on to someone else. He is reaching someone for the Kingdom, I hope; and if not, the blood of the flock will be on the hands of the shepherd/pastor if God's people are not fed correctly...

g

I guess I will have to see for myself if Osteen's teachings are biblical or not. He may be a motivational kind of person. Thequestion that comes to mind right now for me is,"Is Joel teaching milk or meat?"
Good, no, excellent points that need to be said. It seems like some here just can't wait to condemn themselves as per Romans 2.

This thread is SO UNREAL. How can these people trash someone they may or may not have even watched who is helping people to find their way to God? It's UNREAL. No, more like a nightmare.

I feel so sorry for these people. My stomach turns to see what they are doing to themselves trashing this person who is bringing people to Jesus.

Thank you for your excellent post. To bad many will ignore it and condemn themselves further. You got to let go and let God, but I sure wouldn't want to be them come Judgement Day.

God Bless.

[marke]

That statement is a scary one...

Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth


If that statement is a true statement, I will be sure to keep my distance from Lakewood, its teachings, and give my book of "best life" away to a new believer...

g

So you are just going to take the word of some person.

How about using your own brain? Your own discernment. Your own Bible.

Do you know and respect this person whose comments and opinions you are afraid of? Or is this person just someone, somewhere in the world who made a comment that could or could not be correct.

Read the book, watch the program and make up your own mind. Blind people following blind people all fall into a ditch. Discover for yourself if these people are blind or not concerning this man. God gave you that gray matter for a reason. Use it!

If you will not Hear the truth, No one can tell you

God Bless.

[marke]

He should of did that on Larry King.
You who are without sin, step up and cast the first rock.

And please don't forget you get what you give.

God Bless.

[Nadiine]

You who are without sin, step up and cast the first rock.

And please don't forget you get what you give.

God Bless.
That sounds more like Karma than grace & mercy to me, doesn't it marke?

And the truth is this, his message hasn't changed any since this interview... it's not just something he made a mistake & choked on & now he's back to where he should be. His messages continue to lack the message of Jesus Christ & proper spiritual diet for Christians to grow on.

I said this before & I say it again, if Osteen was a drill sargeant in the Military - to oversee new trainees to prep them for an ongoing war in Iraq, I can assure you his motivational sermons would render some of the most Ill equipt soldiers on the face of the earth.
& that's about the condition his congregation will be on when placed on this continual diet of fluff and modern philosophy sprinkled with some encouragement.

Read this excerpt from that interview about why he stuck the bible verses in the BACK of his book:

KING: There's a lot of books about improving yourself.

OSTEEN: Yeah. I don't know. I think coming from the Christian base, and I think the fact that I don't know, it's a book of encouragement and inspiration. And to me it seems like there's so much pulling us down in our society today. There's so much negative. Most of my book is about how you can live a good life today in spite of all that. So I think that had a big part of it.

KING: But it doesn't quote a lot of biblical passages until the back of the book, right?

OSTEEN: It doesn't do a whole lot of it. My message, I wanted to reach the mainstream. We've reached the church audience. So I just try to, what I do is just try to teach practical principles. I may not bring the scripture in until the end of my sermon and i might feel bad about that. Here's the thought. I talked yesterday about living to give. That's what a life should be about. I brought in at the end about some of the scriptures that talk about that. But same principal in the book.
----------------------------
That says it all right there - this wasn't just some SLIP UP we should get over. This reveals a mindset & worldview of his belief that HIS message is the one that contains HOPE, the bible is just secondary to that.
As if his words are more powerful & helpful to people?

He wants to reach the mainstream so lets not use verses thru the book, shove them in back if they want to take separate time to look them up later.
So even if they don't take that time out, they at least got HIS MESSAGE on how to live a better life ---
health, wealth & prosperity using some moral principles.
I'd say the only way to truly have an abundant life is in Jesus Christ & in obedience to His commands whereby you enjoy His favor! (just for starters).

It's alot more than just this 1 interview he choked on - his whole ministry continues this lack of focus on GOD & the MEAT of His word.

[pdfiddler]

When I think of Mr. Joel & wife the story of Ananias & Sapphira comes to mind.

[Kelly]

but I sure wouldn't want to be them come Judgement Day.

You just judged. Welcome to the club.

[pdfiddler]

Gregory Turner -"Is Joel teaching milk or meat?"
It would be wonderful if he did!

[PraiseTheLord84]

Like someone else said, we do not know Pastor Osteen personally, so I can not judge him. However, from having watched his t.v. service for the past few years, and having read his book, I don't see anything wrong with him or his way of teaching. Looking over this thread, some were saying that Osteen doesn't tell people they need Jesus, but I disagree. He has an invitation for salvation at the end of every weekly service. People label him as the "happy preacher," but I feel that having a mixture of different T.V. pastors is good. Whether they are happy, prophetic, last days, etc. it doesn't matter to me. As long as they are telling people how to get saved.

[Nadiine]

Like someone else said, we do not know Pastor Osteen personally, so I can not judge him. However, from having watched his t.v. service for the past few years, and having read his book, I don't see anything wrong with him or his way of teaching. Looking over this thread, some were saying that Osteen doesn't tell people they need Jesus, but I disagree. He has an invitation for salvation at the end of every weekly service. People label him as the "happy preacher," but I feel that having a mixture of different T.V. pastors is good. Whether they are happy, prophetic, last days, etc. it doesn't matter to me. As long as they are telling people how to get saved.
Ok, they get saved- THEN WHAT? How is he teaching them in depth studies about God's word??
He teaches the SAME crap over & over & over. I can rehearse one of his sermons for you, I know the same points by heart now.

What does he teach about Israel? What does he teach about the Jewish system? Principles of fasting? principles of sin? The lists go on in what he doesn't teach.

If he were training people to equip them to go onto the battlefield ready to fight in the military, their platoons would be the first killed.
They aren't given proper biblical knowledge - they get "how to wait longer for God to bless you". Just HANG IN THERE.... don't lose faith, don't lose patience.....
ad nauseum.
It's not YOUR fault.... don't think negatively...... :yawn: :sleep:

That is'nt raising people properly. that's the problem AFTER they first get saved.

[flyingsum0]

Pesonally I like the dude...I'll admit I haavent read this whole thread though...

OKOK yeah I know Im reading now...

[PassionateOne]

Pesonally I like the