CrossMovement
1st August 2003, 02:12 AM
It is a privilege and an honor for both gqaggie04 and myself to be able to take part in this debate with Knight and Drotar. We hope that everyone who takes part in and reads these posts will benefit from and learn the will of God more perfectly through study of His word. We stand ready to affirm with the word of God that the statement “baptism for the remission of sins is necessary for our salvation”. We will begin with a few definitions, the points we are going to cover, and a brief introductory argument.
To baptize – βαπτίζω, baptizo, primarily a frequentative form of bapto, “to dip”, used to signify the dyeing of a garment, or drawing water by dipping a vessel into another.
Baptism – βάπτισμα, baptisma, consisting of the process of immersion, or submersion, and emergence. This baptism must be done in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19). This is done for – or unto, in order to, or with a view to – the remission of sins (Acts 2:38) for those who are penitent believers.
salvation – (for purposes of this discussion) the point at which your sins are removed.
Point 1:
Major Premise- salvation by the grace of God is conditional
Minor Premise – Baptism is a condition of receiving God’s grace
Conclusion – Baptism is required for our salvation
Point 2:
Baptism is for the remission of sins
Point 3:
Baptism is how we are connected to the death and resurrection of Christ, through the working of God
Point 4:
Baptism is the point at which we are born again and become children of God
Point 5:
Baptism is the contact point where man receives God’s grace.
As one reads throughout the Scriptures to learn about the salvation that God has offered to man, there are conditions that must be met. Let’s look at a very popular verse that illustrates this point:
John 3:16 KJV
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
In this instance salvation is conditioned upon belief in Christ. This is something that must be done by an individual before they might receive salvation.
Act 3:19 KJV
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
In this verse repentance must precede salvation, and therefore is a condition of salvation. Does this mean that belief is no longer necessary? No, but rather repentance and belief have both been laid out, by God as conditions to receiving salvation through the grace of God.
Does the existence of these conditions lessen, or nullify, the fact that salvation is through God’s grace? No, of course not.
Luke 17:7-10 KJV
But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat? (8) And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink? (9) Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I think not. (10) So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.
When we do the things that God has told us to do, this is nothing to boast about; there is nothing laudable, or commendable – but rather we are unprofitable servants who rest solely upon the grace of our Lord and Master.
Having thus provided proof for the major premise, now it must be shown through Scriptures that baptism is a condition of our salvation.
Mark 16:16 KJV
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be condemned.
By removing the dependent clause, the first part of this verse can be broken down to its simplest form of “He shall be saved.” But which ‘he’? There are conditions that are included within that clause, connected together with the conjunction and – belief and baptism. Does this verse say that he who believeth only shall be saved? No. Does this verse say that he who is baptized only shall be saved? No, but rather, he who believeth and is baptized shall be saved. These are words that Christ Himself actually spoke, and it would certainly seem, according to Him, that both belief and baptism are necessary conditions placed upon our salvation.
Based upon this proof for the minor premise, we are lead to our conclusion that baptism is a necessary condition placed upon our salvation.
Mat 7:21-23 KJV
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Again, another very straightforward verse: if we don’t do the things that God has told us to then we are workers of iniquity. If we don’t meet the conditions that God has placed upon salvation, then we shall not enter the kingdom of heaven.
This is proof that all of the conditions that God has laid out for our salvation must be met, and because baptism has been shown to be one of those conditions, it must also be met.
(5,650 characters including Scriptures references)
Can We debate now or we got to Wait ??
To baptize – βαπτίζω, baptizo, primarily a frequentative form of bapto, “to dip”, used to signify the dyeing of a garment, or drawing water by dipping a vessel into another.
Baptism – βάπτισμα, baptisma, consisting of the process of immersion, or submersion, and emergence. This baptism must be done in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19). This is done for – or unto, in order to, or with a view to – the remission of sins (Acts 2:38) for those who are penitent believers.
salvation – (for purposes of this discussion) the point at which your sins are removed.
Point 1:
Major Premise- salvation by the grace of God is conditional
Minor Premise – Baptism is a condition of receiving God’s grace
Conclusion – Baptism is required for our salvation
Point 2:
Baptism is for the remission of sins
Point 3:
Baptism is how we are connected to the death and resurrection of Christ, through the working of God
Point 4:
Baptism is the point at which we are born again and become children of God
Point 5:
Baptism is the contact point where man receives God’s grace.
As one reads throughout the Scriptures to learn about the salvation that God has offered to man, there are conditions that must be met. Let’s look at a very popular verse that illustrates this point:
John 3:16 KJV
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
In this instance salvation is conditioned upon belief in Christ. This is something that must be done by an individual before they might receive salvation.
Act 3:19 KJV
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
In this verse repentance must precede salvation, and therefore is a condition of salvation. Does this mean that belief is no longer necessary? No, but rather repentance and belief have both been laid out, by God as conditions to receiving salvation through the grace of God.
Does the existence of these conditions lessen, or nullify, the fact that salvation is through God’s grace? No, of course not.
Luke 17:7-10 KJV
But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat? (8) And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink? (9) Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I think not. (10) So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.
When we do the things that God has told us to do, this is nothing to boast about; there is nothing laudable, or commendable – but rather we are unprofitable servants who rest solely upon the grace of our Lord and Master.
Having thus provided proof for the major premise, now it must be shown through Scriptures that baptism is a condition of our salvation.
Mark 16:16 KJV
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be condemned.
By removing the dependent clause, the first part of this verse can be broken down to its simplest form of “He shall be saved.” But which ‘he’? There are conditions that are included within that clause, connected together with the conjunction and – belief and baptism. Does this verse say that he who believeth only shall be saved? No. Does this verse say that he who is baptized only shall be saved? No, but rather, he who believeth and is baptized shall be saved. These are words that Christ Himself actually spoke, and it would certainly seem, according to Him, that both belief and baptism are necessary conditions placed upon our salvation.
Based upon this proof for the minor premise, we are lead to our conclusion that baptism is a necessary condition placed upon our salvation.
Mat 7:21-23 KJV
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Again, another very straightforward verse: if we don’t do the things that God has told us to then we are workers of iniquity. If we don’t meet the conditions that God has placed upon salvation, then we shall not enter the kingdom of heaven.
This is proof that all of the conditions that God has laid out for our salvation must be met, and because baptism has been shown to be one of those conditions, it must also be met.
(5,650 characters including Scriptures references)
Can We debate now or we got to Wait ??