Rejection of the Rapture

[ConservativeChristian97]

Okay, having previously been Baptist and Pentecostal, I'm slightly confused. Why does the CofC reject the rapture? I was led to believe its Biblical, but could be wrong as I don't remember ever actually seeing it... Anyways, just curious. :D
God bless,
Dawn

[WesWoodell]

I don't think its very biblical.

Very little Scripture is used to back up the theory that Christians will just disappear one day while the rest of the world has seven years to repent.

My Bible doesn't say that to me when I read it. Why, does yours?

[crawfish]

I don't want to get into a discussion of the various "millennial"-isms out there, but most in the CofC are postmillennialists or amillenniasts. Look up these terms on Wikipedia.org for more information.

Personally, I think the whole dispensationalist view is built on shaky theological terms.

[JDIBe]

Most CoC people tend to be Amillenialists as Crawfish and Wes have said. They tend to take an "A.D. 70" view of Matt. 24 and consider the language in Rev. 20 symbolic. They believe the Kingdom is not earthly in any sense of the word, and consider the Church to be the Spiritual Kingdom on earth which was established at Pentecost.

They don't believe in the Rapture either. But, if you show up for church one Sunday morning and no one but you is there.........











....you might want to do a little soul-searching and self-evaluation.........

[ConservativeChristian97]

I don't want to get into a discussion of the various "millennial"-isms out there, but most in the CofC are postmillennialists or amillenniasts. Look up these terms on Wikipedia.org for more information.

Personally, I think the whole dispensationalist view is built on shaky theological terms.

Ahh, nice big words. :thumbsup: I'll look those up, as at the moment I'm kinda :scratch: , as I think you knew I would be. ;) Thank you for telling me where to find those, it'll save me a million hours of searching and confusion.

My Bible doesn't say that to me when I read it. Why, does yours?

As I said, I've never seen it in the Bible and wasn't sure if it was. Really, I've only heard it in SBC and Pentecostal churches, which I left both for being Biblically unsound. :D So, that's why I asked.

They don't believe in the Rapture either. But, if you show up for church one Sunday morning and no one but you is there.........

...you might want to do a little soul-searching and self-evaluation.........

lol Fair enough. ;)

Thank you all for your help and input, it is greatly appreciated.

God bless you all,
Dawn

[Frame1520]

Panmillenialism = It will all pan out.

Jdibe, I concur with yourself, crawfish & Wes.

[OldChurchGuy]

Okay, having previously been Baptist and Pentecostal, I'm slightly confused. Why does the CofC reject the rapture? I was led to believe its Biblical, but could be wrong as I don't remember ever actually seeing it... Anyways, just curious. :D
God bless,
Dawn


The primary scripture for the rapture is in 1 Thessolonians 4:13-18. The NIV reads as follows:Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming the Lord, will certainly not preced those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage each other with these words.
It had been held for many centuries that Paul was anticipating an imminent return of Jesus and that the church in Thessolonica was thinking that only the living would be able to participate in the second coming.

Around 1830, a minister in Ireland, John Darby, took this passage and concluded that those who were true Christians would be caught up with Jesus prior to all the calamaties described in Revelation.

The word "Rapture" comes from the Latin word "Rapare" which means to take away or to snatch out.

As you can imagine, different denominations have differing views on the rapture and how it applies, if at all, to the end times.

Why the CofC rejects it, I do not know. Why others accept Darby's interpretation, I do not know.

If you want to read more about it, I would recommend the following link: http://www.religioustolerance.org/rapture.htm

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy

[ConservativeChristian97]

Cool, thank you! My friend also sent me some scriptures which back up the rapture of the church. I asked cause I couldn't remember seeing it, but I should have as I used to hear one particular scripture preached often in the Pentecostal church.

"It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed. On that day no one who is on the roof of his house, with his goods inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. Remember Lot's wife! Whoever tries to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left." (Luke 17:30-35)

God bless you all,
Dawn

[luv4HIM]

Cool, thank you! My friend also sent me some scriptures which back up the rapture of the church. I asked cause I couldn't remember seeing it, but I should have as I used to hear one particular scripture preached often in the Pentecostal church.

"It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed. On that day no one who is on the roof of his house, with his goods inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. Remember Lot's wife! Whoever tries to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left." (Luke 17:30-35)

God bless you all,
Dawn
that was the the scripture I was looking for to post!!you beat me to it:)

[santadechicago]

"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field;one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day the Lord will come. "
Matthew 24:36-41

"And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."
Matthew 24:31

I hope these verses help you out. Anyway, if you are still looking for an answer just pray out and God will surely answer you.
God Bless...

[setmeonfire]

the way i see it its the timing of the rapture that seems to be misconstrued. 2 thess. ch.2 does mention the "taking up" but most people think it will happen before the coming of the antichrist and pre-tribulation. But 2 thess. ch.2 is clear insaying that day of christs coming a taking up the church wont come til the "man of lawlessness" sits in the temple (naos) of God. I dont reject the rapture just the timing people are being taught.

[constance]

It postdates our doctrine, which was pretty well established before dispensationalism took off. Alexander Campbell knew the guy who invented it, and thus knew it was not a feature of the first century church.

We are Amillenialists, the historically protestant view, although postmilleniallism was Campbell's view.

[Gifdude]

It postdates our doctrine, which was pretty well established before dispensationalism took off. Alexander Campbell knew the guy who invented it, and thus knew it was not a feature of the first century church.

We are Amillenialists, the historically protestant view, although postmilleniallism was Campbell's view.
What is the definition of Amillenialists?

[bwstone]

I don't think one can define the whole of the RM as any stance on the rapture. It is not an essential doctrine in any real sense. It could be mere analogy or allegory. I am a panmillenialist. I will see how it all pans out. I know that in every CC I have attended every stripe of eschatology would have been welcome at the Lord's table. That is all I think we need to be honest. I will gladly take communion with a preterist or a pre-millenialist or heck with one of each on either side of me. Believe in the rapture if it makes you comfortable. Believe in it will happen before the tribulation if you like. Just don't attempt to say that we should all believe one way or another. I personally do not think that any generation on the face of the planet right now will see the events if they are to happen. I look forward to meeting my svaiour upon my demise and nothing more. If I suffer through seven years of trials and tirublations I pray I will be able to count it all joy as we are instructed in scripture and if I perish before that happens then I will meet my Saviour with joy in my heart.

[stranger]

Why not try reading the whole scripture AS A WHOLE ONE TRUTH of God and understanding it by means of prayer and meditation as did the prophets and saints and Jesus... then you can see through the mistakes that sinners made in setting up 'creeds' in the denominational DIVIDED 'churches' of men's false tradions [false relative to scripture AS A WHOLE] ... then you would not be so confused and divided of mind and realise that ONLY the few [144,00] are translated to spirit at Jesus' return, and they are the FIRST fruits only because God gets His ministers ready first as SAINTS in this earth , perfecting their love NOW so that they can sERVE the MANY saved AFTERWARD [Rev 7:9-10] in the righteous new earth kingdom of God COME on earth... but not come on tHIS earth :-

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Not everyone can be kings and priests ,obviously, and God must get the kings and priests ready NOW for His kingdom in the new earth... thus the MANY are saved after deatyh and the second resurrection, and have no need ,nor are offered, any 'rapture'...

Rather EVERYONE MUST follow Jesus' way eventually, but only the few CAN be first since God needs only a few as kings and priests and LONG AGO promised who they would be :-

Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Israel did NOT succeed under their old covenant and were rejected by god, BUT they have a NEW covenant through Jesus for a REMNANT few of IOsrael's two houses to be the firstfruits BY GRACE, not earned -Heb 8:3-13 ... thus they are unconditionally accepted, chosen by God because of His promise, NOT because of themselves :-

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God:

The other thing that taking the scipture as a whole shows , as ONE integrated truth ,OT and NT as one, is to see that the obviously corrupted divided chritsianity of modern times is NECESSARY to God's plan, it HAD to occur [Rev 13:3-7 , 2 Thessalonians 2]

Thus one is ignoring the scripture of God to just chooose at random one of the countless divided[thus false] stories told by sinners dressed up in frocks and following other sinners, not the holy spirit's ONE truth of scripture

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

[Izdaari]

Panmillenialism = It will all pan out.

Jdibe, I concur with yourself, crawfish & Wes.

^_^ Panmillenialist! I like that. That's my position too. God will take to Heaven whomever He wants, whenever He wants. I'll just trust God to handle it.

As C.S. Lewis observed:
There are questions at issue between Christians to which I do not think we have been told the answer. There are some to which I may never know the answer: if I asked them, even in a better world, I might (for all I know) be answered as a far greater questioner was answered: 'What is that to thee? Follow thou Me.' http://www.philosophyforlife.com/mc00.htm

I think this is one of those questions, at least until we actually see it happen.

[DanielRB]

Peace, BWStone :wave:

I don't think one can define the whole of the RM as any stance on the rapture. It is not an essential doctrine in any real sense. It could be mere analogy or allegory. I am a panmillenialist. I will see how it all pans out. I know that in every CC I have attended every stripe of eschatology would have been welcome at the Lord's table. That is all I think we need to be honest. I will gladly take communion with a preterist or a pre-millenialist or heck with one of each on either side of me. Believe in the rapture if it makes you comfortable. Believe in it will happen before the tribulation if you like. Just don't attempt to say that we should all believe one way or another. I personally do not think that any generation on the face of the planet right now will see the events if they are to happen. I look forward to meeting my svaiour upon my demise and nothing more. If I suffer through seven years of trials and tirublations I pray I will be able to count it all joy as we are instructed in scripture and if I perish before that happens then I will meet my Saviour with joy in my heart.

That has been my experience in the RM as well, although most have been amillenial.

I think that the idea of the "rapture" before a seven-year tribulation is just the tip of the dispensational iceberg that most people are familiar with. Many people accept parts of the dispensational framework, without accepting (or even knowing) the whole interpretive method.

In my opinion, the dispensational theological framework is not true. HOWEVER, I will glady sup with someone who accepts it, as long as he or she holds to what is clear from Scripture.

In Christ,

Daniel

[Frame1520]

^_^ Panmillenialist! I like that. That's my position too. God will take to Heaven whomever He wants, whenever He wants. I'll just trust God to handle it.


Glad you enjoyed that :D

[annie1speed]

Hey Stranger,

I agree with much of your post, but I have a question. If we can't all be kings, why do we get crowns?? :D

Annie

[annie1speed]

Hey Stranger,

I agree with much of your post, but I do have a question. If we can't all be Kings, then why do we get crowns?

[lorddog]

After reading the whole bible, if you pay attention you can see all prophecys point to a new covent which is Jesus. Jesus fullfills all prophecy and does away with the old covent and ushers in a new one. several things were going on.
1) jews had to keep blood lines (cannot cross tribe marry and had to keep records)
2) old system was physical and in many ways pointed to the new system.
3) alot of prophecys about the messaih.

now when Christ came he did away with the old covent (old law) and started the new one. by 70 AD with the total destruction of the temple, disbersment of the Jews and the finalizing of the new testiment we see that all prophecy has been fullfilled. the new testiment is all spiritual and not physical based. the new kingdom is all spiritual and not physical based. When you look at all the new commandments they are based on how we think and how we treat others. we are no longer under the 10 commandments but in the new testiment we have 9 of those commandments renewed for us. we are no longer under the old law of sacrifices but as the ultimate sacrifice (which they pointed to) has come.

The Jews were looking for a messaih to come and set up a physical kingdom and kick all the butts of their enemies. They did not understand that Christs kindom was spiritual. Most of revelations has happened and christians now reign with Christ in his new kingdom. basically being a christian is it. your in his kingdom. we do look forward to heavan but for here and now we should be happy to be a christian and want to do His will now.

When Christ comes again thats it, there isnt going to be any second chance for anyone. Also, noone will ever know when that is. When people say "no you can know the signs of the times" that was really talking about the end of the mosaic era and the ushering in of the new era. It does say the End of Days but End of an Era. In the old testiment there are many references to End of Days that were explained alittle later to mean the end of that event. when 70 AD happened it finalized the end of the mosaic system. The people at that time started to see the signs of the times like the roman legons destroying everything there.

Just remember everything in the old and new testiments have meanings and together they make the whole picture. Also, noone, I am sure is 100% correct so it really helps to see many points of view and make your decisions by how they stand up to scriptures.

Lorddog

[scottSTANLEY]

There is an excellent study on the rapture / antichrist at DTGministries.org

[BigRichard]

Help end Atheism! Go to www.jeebusnation.com and tell those atheists that they are wrong about God in their forums. They are out to become e-celebrities with their filth! Stand up and defend God from another atheist website. They have forums and let's go people! Christians need to take charge! Post on their forums!