When grandmas go to jail for witnessing

[C.F.W. Walther]

"Arrested for sharing the Gospel? An expected outcome in North Korea, China or any Muslim country on the globe. But in Pennsylvania? Yep. Arlene Elshinnawy, a 75-year-old grandmother of three, and Lynda Beckman, a 70-year-old grandmother of 10 (along with nine others), were arrested for sharing their faith on the public sidewalk in Philadelphia, Pa., USA. They faced 47 years (the rest of their lives) in jail for spreading the Gospel because of a Pennsylvania "hate crimes" law that is nearly identical to H.R. 254 – the "hate crimes" bill reintroduced in Congress and said to be on the "fast track" in the House Judiciary Committee. This is the same bill that previously passed both the House and Senate and was killed only because of Republican leadership opposition in conference – something we no longer have. Don't believe hate crimes will silence your freedom of speech and freedom of religion? Think again."

http://f2a.org:80/NewsStory.cfm?Story_ID=2216

[LilLamb219]

As much as I find it horrible that someone is in trouble for sharing the Gospel, I can also smile in a way remembering how it would have been nice if the local Baptists who trapped me and my friends in a telephone booth at the age of 12 and wouldn't let us out until we said we'd pray the sinner's prayer with them would have gone to jail. Oh yeah, some people think they're spreading the Gospel...but in reality they're being a nuisance. I'm not saying this grandma did that...but this story just triggered a very bad memory.

BTW, we did NOT say the prayer, we chose to run screaming down to the custard shop instead when they released us.

[QuiltAngel]

Oh my. We are becoming what we are fighting against. So much for tolerance. One thing I have noticed is that those who preach tolerance really don't want tolerance, but for everyone to think and believe like them. Guess we need to be in a letter writing mode to our representatives. Thanks for the info Rad.

I wonder what the women were doing that got them arrested. Were they acting in a way that was unacceptable. I am thinking outloud here as when I hear things like this, I wonder what we don't know about a situation. Off to check this out I go.

LilLamb, your story is wonderful and at the same time scarey for 12 year olds. It reminds me of the time a friend and I were in a Mcdonalds and were approached by members of The Way that was active in Indiana at the time. As soon as they learned our husbands were Seminary students, they were anxious to take their leave from us. No, this was not the first thing we told them either.

[Edial]

"Arrested for sharing the Gospel? An expected outcome in North Korea, China or any Muslim country on the globe. But in Pennsylvania? Yep. Arlene Elshinnawy, a 75-year-old grandmother of three, and Lynda Beckman, a 70-year-old grandmother of 10 (along with nine others), were arrested for sharing their faith on the public sidewalk in Philadelphia, Pa., USA. They faced 47 years (the rest of their lives) in jail for spreading the Gospel because of a Pennsylvania "hate crimes" law that is nearly identical to H.R. 254 – the "hate crimes" bill reintroduced in Congress and said to be on the "fast track" in the House Judiciary Committee. This is the same bill that previously passed both the House and Senate and was killed only because of Republican leadership opposition in conference – something we no longer have. Don't believe hate crimes will silence your freedom of speech and freedom of religion? Think again."

http://f2a.org:80/NewsStory.cfm?Story_ID=2216
Sorry man, but I do not believe that story.

I am not saying that these old ladies are a figment of imagination, but the spin on that story is there by not disclosing what these little old ladies did outside of "spreading the gospel" so they face the 47 years.

What if they were screaming in the most insane ways that people are going to hell, ... or like the extremists that were protesting the the funeral of that Amish girl ... or like the ones that say that 9/11 and soldiers dying in Iraq is a judgement of God and that the dead are deserving to burn in hell?

We see those extremists on TV all the time.

And I would gladly send them to jail for hate crimes if they are one of these extremists.

Besides, the author of that article is selling a book.
She appears to have made a very slick presentation.

Thanks,
Ed

[C.F.W. Walther]

It isn't about intolerance or screaming or little old ladies or hate crimes or if anyone believes the article.

It's about freedom of speech.:doh:

[Studeclunker]

According to many of these laws, simply telling people that their soul is in danger of hell is intimidation. To say that homosexuality is wrong is intimidation. To say that it is wrong to kill one's unborn child is intimidation. To say that Jesus is the way the truth, and the light, that there is no way to the Father but through him, is intimidation. You can go to jail for reading out of Romans in public. Indeed, for all of the above, you can now go to jail. Should these bills pass the US Congress and state legislatures. Freedom of speech? Not if you're a conservative Christian.

The 'let's all get along together' folks are going to find their church bells silenced and their pastor's message has been censored. Then again, many of them will never notice the difference. They may even welcome the message that never challenges them on their sins. We will find people sitting in our churches that are not members, but people put there to make sure we are not saying anything that the STATE does not approve of.

The long summer of freedom that Christianity has enjoyed is coming to an end. If we don't fight this, we won't have the right to publicly worship. Unless of course, we adhere to the state approved, watered down, version of our religion.

Gee... Separation of church and state, squashing the Christian message, limits on freedom of speech, all of this sounds so much like Natzi Germany... is history repeating itself on a new stage?:help:

[BelindaP]

I remember a corner preacher saying that instead of killing babies (a reference to abortion), people should be going out and killing homosexuals instead. I would call that hate speech.

So, what were these innocent old ladies really saying?

[QuiltAngel]

From my searching this afternoon I have found quite a bit. It looks like these people were cleared of all charges and that this case is being used to push the issue on the Pennsylvania law. It is spearheaded by a group called Repent America.

You can go to repentamerica.com and see what they are about and there is quite an article on wikipedia. This is the group that says God caused the hurrican in New Orleans beause they tolerated things such as homosexuality. Also the case mentioned here in this thread happened in 2004.

I don't know, this group is radical and is right up there with the group that protests as our service personnel's funerals. Their basic message may be good, but their methods are something else.

[Edial]

According to many of these laws, simply telling people that their soul is in danger of hell is intimidation. To say that homosexuality is wrong is intimidation. To say that it is wrong to kill one's unborn child is intimidation. To say that Jesus is the way the truth, and the light, that there is no way to the Father but through him, is intimidation. You can go to jail for reading out of Romans in public. Indeed, for all of the above, you can now go to jail. Should these bills pass the US Congress and state legislatures. Freedom of speech? Not if you're a conservative Christian.

The 'let's all get along together' folks are going to find their church bells silenced and their pastor's message has been censored. Then again, many of them will never notice the difference. They may even welcome the message that never challenges them on their sins. We will find people sitting in our churches that are not members, but people put there to make sure we are not saying anything that the STATE does not approve of.

The long summer of freedom that Christianity has enjoyed is coming to an end. If we don't fight this, we won't have the right to publicly worship. Unless of course, we adhere to the state approved, watered down, version of our religion.

Gee... Separation of church and state, squashing the Christian message, limits on freedom of speech, all of this sounds so much like Natzi Germany... is history repeating itself on a new stage?:help:
Agree.

But concerning that specific post and that the ladies faced 47 years in jail, doesn't it seem improbable that they just read the Romans in public?

Tolerance of blatant disobedience to God's word is wrong. It destroys the church.
However, the incorrect presentation of the Gospel does the same thing.

If people that claim to be Christians (and some are) protest at the funeral of a 12-year Amish girl with large signs while we observe the horse and buggies passing by of the mourners on TV, what kind of a testimony is that?

Yes. I am kind of excited about this topic. :)

But we are Lutherans, right? :)

Thanks,
Ed

[Edial]

It isn't about intolerance or screaming or little old ladies or hate crimes or if anyone believes the article.

It's about freedom of speech.:doh:
OK. Maybe I misread. :)

But it also may be that I personally do not have a strong need for freedom of speech in a personal context.

To me (as to a Christian) freedom of speech is expressed primarily in speaking the Gospel.

But if someone personally tell me to "shut up" in discussing whatever political, social issues might be there, I would probably "shut up". :)
Maybe the fact that I was brought up in Soviet Union (came here when 16) had some effect in my upbringing. :)

But concerning the Gospel - freedom of speech MUST be there, but as long as that "freedom" does not diminish that very Gospel.

Thanks,:)
Ed