What Does The Bible Plainly And Really Say About This/That?

[BlueJay180]

Are there women angels? None whatsoever. I was watching "Touched By An Angel" years ago and I knew something was definitely wrong with this show, which is based out of scripture. So, one day, I talked to my preacher about this and asked him if there are any women angels? He said that angels have no sex but they do appear male/masculine. Every passage in the Bible where they mention angels, every angel is male. Read God's Word and see for yourselves. I will have more later on other subjects and issues.

[AJB4]

Are there women angels? None whatsoever. I was watching "Touched By An Angel" years ago and I knew something was definitely wrong with this show, which is based out of scripture. So, one day, I talked to my preacher about this and asked him if there are any women angels? He said that angels have no sex but they do appear male/masculine. Every passage in the Bible where they mention angels, every angel is male. Read God's Word and see for yourselves. I will have more later on other subjects and issues.
Yes. There are woman angels. Have you seen Constantine? :D In that movie, Gabriel became Gabrielle.

[HeyHomie]

I'm unclear on how this matters in any way, shape or form. :scratch:

You are aware that Touched by an Angel is fiction, right?

[JDIBe]

Well, first of all "Touched by an Angel" is not based on Scripture. It is based on Hollywood's perception of Scripture, with entertaining embelishments thrown in. Big difference.

Secondly, we simply do not know, and cannot know, whether or not there are women angels. Perhaps angels took the form of a man in the past, because men had a dominant role in the society and were more likely to be taken serious. We don't know. There are some things that God has just decided that we just don't need to know. I think this is one of them. You can discuss it if you wish, but it will quickly degenerate into one of those "angels on the head of a pin" type posts very quickly.

Sorry to be such a killjoy......

[AJB4]

*Deleted*:D

[BlueJay180]

I read the Bible and I know very well that there are no women angels. Angels have no sex but they do appear male/masculine. As I had said before, every passage in God's Word mentions about the angels, there are none that mention there are women angels. They all appeared male. Again, read the Bible and see for yourselves. See if I'm right. I will have more later on other subjects and issues from God's Word, Lord willing.

[BlueJay180]

What does the Bible really say about women preachers/ministers/evangelists? Plenty. There shouldn't be any preaching from the pulpit at all. Only men should do that because Paul said through God by the Holy Spirit in 1 Timothy 2:12 that "I do not allow them (women) to teach (preach) or to have authority over men; they must keep quiet." It is okay if a woman is supervisor, chairman, president or CEO of a company/corporation, principal, doctor, governor, Congresswoman, delegate, senator, Secretary of State (or any Secretary), queen, princess, prime minister, or even President of The United States. But she is not allowed to preach God's Word in the church or anywhere. She is also not allowed to be an elder (pastor) or a deacon either. It is entirely unscriptual. She can be a Sunday school teacher as long she doesn't teach men. She can teach other women and children as well. Feel free to leave comments...I'll have more later, Lord willing.

[HeyHomie]

Is this thread going to be a deposit box for your random thoughts about women? :scratch:

[WesWoodell]

Touched By An Angel is a good show. It certainly has a better message than just about everything else on television.

[cremi]

What does the Bible really say about women preachers/ministers/evangelists? Plenty. There shouldn't be any preaching from the pulpit at all. Only men should do that because Paul said through God by the Holy Spirit in 1 Timothy 2:12 that "I do not allow them (women) to teach (preach) or to have authority over men; they must keep quiet." It is okay if a woman is supervisor, chairman, president or CEO of a company/corporation, principal, doctor, governor, Congresswoman, delegate, senator, Secretary of State (or any Secretary), queen, princess, prime minister, or even President of The United States. But she is not allowed to preach God's Word in the church or anywhere. She is also not allowed to be an elder (pastor) or a deacon either. It is entirely unscriptual. She can be a Sunday school teacher as long she doesn't teach men. She can teach other women and children as well. Feel free to leave comments...I'll have more later, Lord willing.
ugh...

I better not say anything...I'm a woman.:eek:

[Fireinfolding]

There is one woman in scripture who is shown as a Deacons (below) the word used in relation to her by Paul is "servant" but that word is defined "deacon".

"Pastors" where the word is used only once in the NT but moreso in the OT (Pastor) is the same word as shepherd (even in the OT) . Now in the OT under the defintion is included the word "Shepherdess" but the word itself is not used in scripture.

For example

Jermiah 3:15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall FEED you with knowledge and understanding. (Feed my sheep?)

The word "pastors" is ra`ah {raw-aw'} here
1) to pasture, tend, graze, feed a) (Qal) 1) to tend, pasture a) to shepherd b) of ruler, teacher (fig) c) of people as flock (fig) d) shepherd, herdsman (subst) 2) to feed, graze a) of cows, sheep etc (literal) b) of idolater, Israel as flock (fig) b) (Hiphil) shepherd, shepherdess 2) to associate with, be a friend of (meaning probable) a) (Qal) to associate with b) (Hithpael) to be companions 3) (Piel) to be a special friend


This brought me to thinking about Deacons, as it seems to show here only men can be (keep reading)

1Titus 3:12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

Deacon "diakoneo"

1)) to be a servant, attendant, domestic, to serve, wait upon a) to minister to one, render ministering offices to 1) to be served, ministered unto b) to wait at a table and offer food and drink to the guests, 1) of women??? preparing food c) to minister i.e. supply food and necessities of life 1) to relieve one's necessities (e.g. by collecting alms), to provide take care of, distribute, the things necessary to sustain life 2) to take care of the poor and the sick, who administer the office of a deacon 3) in Christian churches to serve as deacons d) to minister 1) to attend to anything, that may serve another's interests 2) to minister a thing to one, to serve one or by supplying any thing

Same word Deacon "diakoneo" means "minister" or "minster unto" check the word in the verses

Mat 25:55 And many women were there beholding afar off, which followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering unto him: (more examples of this word found in the above definition even "minister" which is synonomous with deacon and others connect)

Again here (Just so you can see if not only in part give it a look yourself)

1Cr 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

The word "ministers" here is diakonos {dee-ak'-on-os}

1) one who executes the commands of another, esp. of a master, a servant, attendant, minister a) the servant of a king b) a deacon ( above shows a woman as well) one who, by virtue of the office assigned to him by the church, cares for the poor and has charge of and distributes the money collected for their use c) a waitor, one who serves food and drink ( if serving food is synonomous with those who serve tables its not assigned just to women see seven men are chosen Acts 6:3)For Synonyms see entry 5834

The best example is Phebe

Look at the word "servant" in this verse is "diakonos" {dee-ak'-on-os}


Romans 16:1-2 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant (Deacon)of the church which is at Cenchrea:That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a Succourer of MANY, and of myself also.(and Romans 16:27 as well)


Succourer
1) a woman set over others 2) a female guardian, protectress, patroness, caring for the affairs of others and aiding them with her resources


So it does show that a deacon can be a woman and set over others, being a "protectress" shes much like a "shepherdess" in that regard as a shepherd not only lays down ones life for the sheep but "protects" and cares for them.

In regards to being able to a woman teaching... rather then dive into why the Lord said ye suffereth that woman *Jezebel* to teach, and Paul who said HE suffer NOT a woman to teach, lets take it straight on.

If a woman would TEACH then she would be a TEACHER, the scripture then puts a "difference" between "pastors" and "teachers" correct? Theres only one word in the NT for "pastors" it means "shepherds" but in the OT the definition allows for shepherdess ra`ah {raw-aw'}


They were allowed to prophesy and shows the woman prayeth or "prophesieth" propheteuo {prof-ate-yoo'-o} then when you look at the definition it does have something to do with "speaking". It says your "Daughters" shall "prophesy" Acts 2:17 one had four daughters which did prophesy Acts 21:9 One who prophesieth simply "edifieth the church". Now, if women cannot speak (in order to edify the church) its a pretty useless gift for women, but they had it. What good is having a gift to simply edify the church you cant speak in it? I'm pretty sure as I have heard some think "edifying others" (which is what prophesying is) has passed away? Im not sure, I guess it depends on which camp I suppose? Now "where" a woman could prophesy seems to be the issue. How can she edify the church when a woman cannot supposedly speak in the church?

Pastors and teachers

Ephes 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Only one word for "pastors" synonomous for "shepherd"


Ephes 4:11 Pastors poimen {poy-mane'}1) a herdsman, esp. a shepherd a) in the parable, he to whose care and control OTHERS have committed themselves TO, and whose precepts they follow 2) metaph. a) the presiding officer, manager, director, of any assembly: so of Christ the Head of the church 1) of the overseers of the Christian assemblies 2) of kings and princes

The tasks of a Near Eastern shepherd were:

- to watch for enemies trying to attack the sheep
- to defend the sheep from attackers
- to heal the wounded and sick sheep
- to find and save lost or trapped sheep
- to love them, sharing their lives and so earning their trust.

This is short but I wonder if we understand all the roles correctly. Though to be servant of all in Christ would not need collars, papers, position, title or recognition. Man or woman if the Spirit of my Lord quickens something in me through you I would hear.

Just because Jim Jones (and many like him) are a men no more makes him worth the listen, heeding or correct (as I see it).

But Im with her ^ Im a woman, I dont know squat either. Though, I know when Zachariah was told he was to be dumb and not able to speak, he asked for something to "write with" ... He seemed to understand the "order" to be silent did not include writing^_^

Typing ok? ;)

Peace

Fireinfolding

[BlueJay180]

Homie, I don't hate women at all. I love women regardless of who and what they believe in and their viewpoints and opinions on all things. I'm definitely NOT going to use this thread to go against women...I'm just using this thread to show you all what the Bible really says about a lot of things, including what we know and what we believe in.

[BlueJay180]

I was reading 1 John 1:8-10 earler today (02/18/2007) and this passage of scripture tells us in verse 8 that if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and there is no truth in us. Verse 9 says "But if we confess our sins to God, He will keep His promise and do what is right: He will forgive us our sins and purify us from all our wrongdoing." Many denominations and other churches use verse 9 and teach that as on how to get saved (that is, salvation). That is not true and it does not tell us how to get saved. What I am saying is this and what verse 9 really says/means is that all Christians sin and we, believers in Jesus Christ, have to confess our sins to God (if and when we commit them) and ask Him for forgiveness. He will indeed forgive us for our sins and wrongdoings and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. That's what it is really all about here. Verse 10 clearly says that "If we say that we have not sinned, we make a liar out of God, and His Word is not in us." All of us sin; saints and sinners alike. I know I have sinned, and have asked God to forgive me of my sins. If you have sinned against God, ask Him to forgive you of the sin(s) you have commited against Him and He will do it, cleansing you from your unrighteousness. I will have more later, Lord willing.

[Wordgazer]

When talking about what the Bible plainly and really says, it's important to read very carefully and accurately, to read everything that is being said, and not to read into it things that are not being said.

My reading of the passages on angels tells me only two actual things: that they "neither marry nor are given in marriage," and that whenever an angel has appeared to a human, the angel has appeared to that human to be male. Everything else is just inference.

As far as this passage on women teaching is concerned, notice the important word "I." Paul uses that word "I" when he is referring to his own practice as opposed to something the Lord actually commands. So Paul does not allow women to teach in the church at that point in history. That's all that passage actually says.

[cremi]

Homie, I don't hate women at all. I love women regardless of who and what they believe in and their viewpoints and opinions on all things. I'm definitely NOT going to use this thread to go against women...I'm just using this thread to show you all what the Bible really says about a lot of things, including what we know and what we believe in.Good! I'm glad you aren't using this thread for that purpose. I've had to deal with far too much woman bashing to suit me for a lifetime.

As far as what the bible really says though, I think we all need to be careful when reading the bible. It's easy to read any portion of the bible and read into it what we see with our own version of how we see things. IOW, if we have a preset notion of what we believe, then it's easy to find scripture to support our own POV.

The very topic you've brought to light is a perfect example. Your preset notion was that there were no women angels and you've tried to support that with scripture. To you, it's crystal clear. To me, not so much.

Now, I wouldn't say you are wrong. You may in fact be right. Where I would differ with you though, is that I don't see how clearly you can draw your conclusion solely through scirpture.

Perhaps it would be better to say, "From how I read the scriptures and from the examples I've seen in the bible of who angels are, I've drawn the conclusion that there are no women angels."

The difference is that we now know it's your opinion, rather than the inferred idea that the rest of us, who may not agree with you, don't know how to read the bible properly.

[BlueJay180]

In Matthew 7:6, Jesus says (in the TEV/Good News Translation): "Do not give what is holy to dogs--they will only turn and attack you. Do not throw your pearls in front of pigs--they will only trample them underfoot." What is Jesus saying here? He says to us do not shove the Bible/His teachings down anyone's throat if they don't want to hear God's Word/the truth. Go ahead and tell them about God, Jesus, the Bible, and the truth if they are interested. If they don't want to hear them, then don't press; don't even push it, and respect their wishes. Tell them you will pray for them so that they will hear the truth and all about God, Jesus, and His Word someday before they leave this world. Remember what Jesus said in Matthew 7:6 and you will do all right. I will have more later, Lord willing...

[holo]

I will have more later, Lord willing...Heywaitaminute.

Do you mean that whenever you post something, it's the will of God?

[JDIBe]

Heywaitaminute.

Do you mean that whenever you post something, it's the will of God?
I think he means this...

James 4:13-15

13 Come now, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go into this or that town and spend a year there and do business and make a profit.”
14 You do not know about tomorrow. What is your life like? For you are a puff of smoke that appears for a short time and then vanishes.
15 You ought to say instead, “If the Lord is willing, then we will live and do this or that.”

[BlueJay180]

That is exactly what I meant, JDIBe...what I actually and really meant is/was that if I have any more subjects from God's Word and what His Word really says about it/them, I will post for you later, Lord willing.

[DanielRB]

Peace, BlueJay :wave:

Are there women angels? None whatsoever. I was watching "Touched By An Angel" years ago and I knew something was definitely wrong with this show, which is based out of scripture. So, one day, I talked to my preacher about this and asked him if there are any women angels? He said that angels have no sex but they do appear male/masculine. Every passage in the Bible where they mention angels, every angel is male. Read God's Word and see for yourselves. I will have more later on other subjects and issues.

This issue seems to be dangerously close to the supposed mideval obsession with "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"

Yes, the Bible no where states that when an Angel appeared it was female. Of course, some angelic beings appeared in the form of a lion, an ox and an eagle, and I'm not sure if it specifically states if these creatures were feminine or masculine (perhaps I should look it up.)

But arguments from silence are not particularly compelling to me. There's no particular reason to assume that Angels would never appear in feminine form. But frankly, I really don't see why this matters at all. If someone claims to have seen an angel, I'd probably be skeptical, no matter if it appeared as a male, female, ox, lion or eagle. I'd be more concerned with what they claim the "angel" said (Gal 1:8).

In Christ,

Daniel

[Loveaboveall]

What does the Bible really say about women preachers/ministers/evangelists? Plenty. There shouldn't be any preaching from the pulpit at all. Only men should do that because Paul said through God by the Holy Spirit in 1 Timothy 2:12 that "I do not allow them (women) to teach (preach) or to have authority over men; they must keep quiet." It is okay if a woman is supervisor, chairman, president or CEO of a company/corporation, principal, doctor, governor, Congresswoman, delegate, senator, Secretary of State (or any Secretary), queen, princess, prime minister, or even President of The United States. But she is not allowed to preach God's Word in the church or anywhere. She is also not allowed to be an elder (pastor) or a deacon either. It is entirely unscriptual. She can be a Sunday school teacher as long she doesn't teach men. She can teach other women and children as well. Feel free to leave comments...I'll have more later, Lord willing.
My friend... I know that there are many women that have a very deep understanding of biblical things that God has bestowed to them through the Holy Spirit's teahcing. To say that these women cannot teach a man these things is, well, ridiculous. Do you still require a woman to cover her head when she prays? Do women in your church wear pearls. Why would God give a woman the gift of prophecy to just keep what God has shown her to herself? All gifts are for the edification of the church are they not? How is a woman with the gift of prophecy to edify the church if she is not allowed to speak? I would dare say friend that there are many women in the Lord's church who have a much richer understanding of God and His word than you and could teach you many things if only you would listen!

[The Princess Bride]

Are there women angels? None whatsoever. I was watching "Touched By An Angel" years ago and I knew something was definitely wrong with this show, which is based out of scripture. So, one day, I talked to my preacher about this and asked him if there are any women angels? He said that angels have no sex but they do appear male/masculine. Every passage in the Bible where they mention angels, every angel is male. Read God's Word and see for yourselves. I will have more later on other subjects and issues.
Angels dont have "genders" so I am sure their features can either be clearly masculine/feminine or a blend.

[BlueJay180]

Do we really have to pay taxes? Jesus said we have to do it, and He said so in Matthew 22:15-22. He said to the Pharisees, their disciples, and everyone else "Pay to Caesar/the Emperor what belongs to Caesar/the Emperor, and pay to God what belongs to God." What that means is we have to pay Washington/the IRS and our state government what belongs to Washington/the IRS and our state government, and we have to pay to God what belongs to God (in tithes and offerings - Malachi 3:10). We have to pay our taxes even if our taxes are sky high. Think about it. Use your money in God's glory.

[BlueJay180]

You have either a liberal view or a denominational view on women in worship and in church. Only God will have the last word on this. We will see who is right!

[DanielRB]

Peace, All :wave:

One thing I did this past weekend, because it was mother's day, was to look in the Scripture about mothers.

While the OP is correct that Angels in the Bible were never described as female, sometimes feminine imagry is used about God himself. That's right, God himself (though I'm not sure about saying "God herself").

For example:

Deuteronomy 32:18 (ESV)
18 You were unmindful of the Rock that bore you, and you forgot the God who gave you birth.

Psalm 131:1-3 (ESV)
1 O Lord, my heart is not lifted up; my eyes are not raised too high; I do not occupy myself with things too great and too marvelous for me.
2 But I have calmed and quieted my soul, like a weaned child with its mother; like a weaned child is my soul within me.
3 O Israel, hope in the Lord from this time forth and forevermore.

Isaiah 42:14-16 (ESV)
14 For a long time I have held my peace; I have kept still and restrained myself; now I will cry out like a woman in labor; I will gasp and pant.
15 I will lay waste mountains and hills, and dry up all their vegetation; I will turn the rivers into islands, and dry up the pools.
16 And I will lead the blind in a way that they do not know, in paths that they have not known I will guide them. I will turn the darkness before them into light, the rough places into level ground. These are the things I do, and I do not forsake them.

Isaiah 49:14-15 (ESV)
14 But Zion said, “The Lord has forsaken me; my Lord has forgotten me.”
15 “Can a woman forget her nursing child, that she should have no compassion on the son of her womb? Even these may forget, yet I will not forget you.

Isaiah 66:12-14 (ESV)
12 For thus says the Lord: “Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the nations like an overflowing stream; and you shall nurse, you shall be carried upon her hip, and bounced upon her knees.
13 As one whom his mother comforts, so I will comfort you; you shall be comforted in Jerusalem.
14 You shall see, and your heart shall rejoice; your bones shall flourish like the grass; and the hand of the Lord shall be known to his servants, and he shall show his indignation against his enemies.

Hosea 13:8 (ESV)
8 I will fall upon them like a bear robbed of her cubs; I will tear open their breast, and there I will devour them like a lion, as a wild beast would rip them open.

Matthew 23:37 (ESV)
37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not!

Note that this also uses the images of a female bear and female chicken. However, I don't think anyone would literally say that God is a giant cosmic chicken or bear. Likewise, it would be foolish anthropomorphizing to make God into some giant cosmic human man or woman.

In Christ,

Daniel

[BlueJay180]

Jesus said in Matthew 7:6 "Do not give what is holy to dogs -- they will only turn and attack you. Do not throw your pearls in front of pigs -- they will only trample them underfoot." So, what does that mean? It means we should never be a holier-than-thou and we should never shove God's Word down anyone's throat. If anyone does not want to listen to the Truth (God's Word), respect their wishes and don't do it. Don't push it and don't press. Pray for them that someday before they leave this world they would finally know the truth that will set them free. I will have more later, Lord willing...

[BlueJay180]

What does God's Word say about tatoos? You can find that passage of scripture in Leviticus 19:28 which says "You will not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you. I am the LORD." - NKJV. A paraphrased version would say this as well "(Do not) tatoo yourselves or cut gashes in your body to mourn for the dead. I am the LORD." - TEV. I have seen a report on The 700 Club/CBN News that our brothers and sisters in Christ are getting tatoos with biblical, religious, and spiritual designs. What God said in that scripture is right. We should never get any tatoos at all no matter what it looks like and God means it. If you don't believe me, read that scripture in His Word. I will have more later on this thread, Lord willing...

[annie1speed]

Hmmm. I'm curious. Is this prohibition carried over to the New Testament and part of the new covenant/law? Do you believe all the prohibitions of the Old Testament are still in effect?

[BlueJay180]

To Annie, yes and yes. The same goes for the Ten Commandments.

[Splayd]

We should never get any tatoos at all no matter what it looks like and God means it. If you don't believe me, read that scripture in His Word. I will have more later on this thread, Lord willing...Hey BlueJay :wave:
I'm a big fan of the OT law... but I'm not sure about that. Let's examine that scripture again:
Leviticus 19:28 which says "You will not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you. I am the LORD." - NKJV. A paraphrased version would say this as well "(Do not) tatoo yourselves or cut gashes in your body to mourn for the dead. I am the LORD."Notice the parts I bolded. The verse doesn't say we shouldn't get tattoos. It says we shouldn't get them to mourn the dead.

Let's also consider that verse in context. The verse before it says this:
Lev 19:27 "You shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shall you mar the corners of your beard." - NKJV. The Message says this "Don't cut the hair on the sides of your head or trim your beard."I trust you approach that verse the same way as the next.

OK - Let's consider what's really going on. Is it really that we can't get tattoos, trim our beards or shave our heads? I'd suggest not. The real issue as I understand it is that they were being told not to imitate the pagan religious practices of the day. Is the message relevant today? Absolutely! But the practices would probably be different.

Peace

[rrguy]

What does God's Word say about tatoos? You can find that passage of scripture in Leviticus 19:28 which says "You will not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you. I am the LORD." - NKJV. A paraphrased version would say this as well "(Do not) tatoo yourselves or cut gashes in your body to mourn for the dead. I am the LORD." - TEV. I have seen a report on The 700 Club/CBN News that our brothers and sisters in Christ are getting tatoos with biblical, religious, and spiritual designs. What God said in that scripture is right. We should never get any tatoos at all no matter what it looks like and God means it. If you don't believe me, read that scripture in His Word. I will have more later on this thread, Lord willing...

I caught that on the 700 club also. Leviticus 19 Yahweh was speaking to Moses "(Do not) tattoo yourselves or cut gashes in your body to mourn for the dead". Was he not referring to those worshiping false Gods, sacrificing, & involved in witchcraft?
26 "You will eat nothing with blood in it. You will not practise divination or magic.
27 "You will not round off your hair at the edges or trim the edges of your beard.
28 You will not gash your bodies when someone dies, and you will not tattoo yourselves. I am Yahweh.
29 "Do not profane your daughter by making her a prostitute, or the country itself will become prostituted and filled with incest.
30 "You will keep my Sabbaths and revere my sanctuary. I am Yahweh.
31 "Do not have recourse to the spirits of the dead or to magicians; they will defile you. I, Yahweh, am your God.
32 "You will stand up in the presence of grey hair, you will honour the person of the aged and fear your God. I am Yahweh.

[BlueJay180]

If you ever get angry or have a dispute with your brother or sister in Christ, please don't ever call him or her a fool even a worthless fool. Jesus warned us in Matthew 5:22 that if we call our brother (or sister) a worthless fool will be in danger of going to the fire of Hell. Please don't ever call anyone a fool. You may never know if that person may be your brother or sister in Jesus Christ. Please watch what you are saying. I'll have more on this thread later, Lord willing...

[BlueJay180]

rrguy, He was referring to everyone including those who are worshipping false gods, sacrificing, and involved in withcraft. Thanks for your response and for the scriptures you posted here from Leviticus 19:26-32. God bless!

[BlueJay180]

We know that many preachers, ministers, and evangelists are called Reverend. They should never be called reverend because only God should be called that name. If you don't believe me on this, please read Psalm 111:9 and that scripture tells it exactly as it is. David says (in NKJV or MKJV) in this scripture "He sent redemption to His people; He has commanded His covenant for ever: holy and reverend is His name." Don't ever call your preacher a reverend. Call him your brother in Jesus Christ. I'll have more on this thread later, Lord willing...

[BlueJay180]

What does the Bible really say about baptism and is baptism essential to and for salvation? Let's take a look...

Jesus commanded baptism and He commanded it in Matthew 28:18-20, Mark 16:16, and John 3:5

Let's look further...

Start at Ephesians 4:4-6 - "There is one body and one Spirit, just as there is one hope to which God has called you. There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism; there is one God and Father of all mankind, who is Lord of all, works through all, and is in all."

"One baptism"? The Greeks have a word for immerse (baptizo), one for sprinkle (rantizo), and one for pour (cheo), and one for any one of the above (hundriano). The only word used in the Bible to describe Christian baptism is "baptizo (immerse)".

Baptism is by immersion and you will find out the truth about it in Acts 8:32-40, Acts 18:7-8, and Romans 6:1-5.

Sprinkling and pouring became a substitute for immersion in 753 AD (over 700 years after the first Church was started and the first 3,000 Christians were immersed). Pope Stephen II allowed the monks of Cressy in Brittany to sprinkle the head in the case of necessity. By the year 1311 AD, the Roman Catholic Church held a Council at Revenna and legalized sprinkling or pouring as a substitution for immersion (Edinburgh Encyclopedia).

In Matthew 15:9, Jesus said "It is no use for them to worship Me, because they teach man-made rules as though they were My laws! (TEV)"
In the NIV, Jesus said "They worship Me in vain, their teachings are but rules made by men."

Even top religious leaders and founders of different denominations knew the Truth:
John Calvin (Presbyterian) said: "The word 'baptize' signifies to immerse. It is certain that immersion was the practice of the primitive church."
Martin Luther (Lutheran) said: "Baptism is a Greek word, and may be translated 'immerse'. I would have those who are to be baptized be altogether dipped."
John Wesley (Methodist) said: "Buried with him by baptism - alluding to the ancient manner of baptizing by immersion."

Which baptism (sprinkle, pour, or immerse) requires the following seven (7) points:
1) water - Acts 8:36
2) much water - John 3:23
3) going down into the water - Acts 8:38
4) coming up out of the water - Matthew 3:16
Baptism is also symbolic of the following:
5) Rebirth - John 3:5, 22-26
6) Death, burial, and resurrection - Romans 6:3-11
7) Washing away of sins - Acts 22:10-16 (In 2 Kings 5, remember the story of how Naaman was cleansed of his leprosy when he obeyed Elisha and dipped (immersed) seven (7) times in the Jordan River? Would he have been healed if he refused?

Baptism started with John the Baptist
1) Commanded by God first to the Jews (Luke 7:29-30)
2) It required water (John 1:31)
3) It was for the forgiveness of sins if the person was repentant (Luke 3:3)
4) It took the place of circumcision - it was the seal of a new Covenant (Colossians 2:9-15)
5) It was symbolic of a rebirth (John 3:3-5) in order to get into God's kingdom
6) Jesus was baptized (Mark 1:9) and also baptized (John 3:22) more than John (John 4:1)
7) Then after Jesus died on the cross and rose again, He commanded everyone of every nation (Jews and Gentiles) to be baptized in order to be a disciple (Matthew 28:18-20). He promised they would then receive forgiveness of sins and the Holy Spirit, and the first 3,000 people to become Christians obeyed and were baptized (Acts 2:38)
8) Those who wanted the Holy Spirit and had only been baptized by John's baptism, were rebaptized (Acts 19:1-5) to become part of Christ (Galatians 3:26-28)
9) Some say Gentiles didn't need the water they were baptized with the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:44-48)

Baptism is part of the Plan of Salvation
Mark 16:16 - "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned."
Now, if we can read between the lines of this scripture, Jesus would say in addition to what He said: "Whoever says they believe but have not been baptized is not saved and is still condemned." and this is true.
1 Peter 3:21 (NIV) "And this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also - not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

Baptism is a command from Jesus in order to be His disciple (Matthew 28:18-20); and it was a command that the first 3,000 Christians obeyed (Acts 2:38).
Acts 22:16 - "And now, why wait any longer? Get up and be baptized and have your sins washed away by praying to Him."
2 Corinthians 5:17 - "When anyone is joined to Christ, he is a new being; the old is gone, the new has come."

What about all those people throughout history that never were baptized by immersion because they never heard or read the command?
John 12:47-48 (49-50) - "If anyone hears My message and does not obey it, I will not judge him. I came, not to judge the world, but to save it. Whoever rejects Me and does not accept My message has One who will judge him. The words I have spoken will be his judge on the last day!"
John 15:22 (23-24) - "They would not have been guilty of sin if I had not come and spoken to them; as it is, they no longer have any excuse for their sin.
John 9:41 - Jesus answered "If you were blind, then you would not be guilty; but since you claim that you can see, this means that you are still guilty."
Hebrews 10:26-27 - "For there is no longer any sacrifice that will take away sins if we purposely go on sinning after the Truth has been made known to us. Instead, all that is left is to wait in fear for the coming Judgment and the fierce fire which will destory those who oppose God!"
Romans 2:14-16 - "The Gentiles do not have the Law; but whenever they do by instinct what the Law commands, they are their own law, even though they do not have the Law. Their conduct shows that what the Law commands is written in their hearts. Their consciences also show that this is true, since their thoughts sometimes defend them. And so, according to the Good News I preach, this is how it will be on that Day when God through Jesus Christ will judge the secret thoughts of all."

Remember, baptism will not save you. Only the blood of Jesus Christ will save you. The water (anywhere including the baptistery) is the symbolism of and for His blood. Therefore, baptism is indeed essential to and for salvation. If you are not saved, then do exactly as Jesus and the apostles have commanded you in God's Word (and this post) to do to get saved. If you have not been baptized, please get baptized immediately if you want to enter God's kingdom of Heaven. Also remember this: you cannot be baptized just to join a church. It doesn't work that way and it never will. There is absolutely nothing in the Scriptures that says that and teaches that. Read the Scriptures and find out for yourself that baptism is indeed essential to salvation. Baptism is not only a decision but it is also a must. I hope you learned very much from this about baptism. I'll have more on this thread later, Lord willing...

[artogis]

I fail to understand why this of any importance. Hollywood's version of God's plan and God's plan have always been at odds.

I don't think there are many people walking around thinking that the drama on "Touched By An Angel" was in any way inspired by God...but then again...God does work in mysterious ways.

Just looking for something to debate about?

[BlueJay180]

No, Artogis. I'm NOT looking for something to debate about. I'm just showing you what God, Jesus, the prophets, and the apostles really said about what is in the Scriptures/God's Word and I'm telling you the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Everyone including you and I must follow the true sound doctrine of Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 4:13-16, 2 Timothy 3:16-17), and not follow false teachings. I will have more on this thread later, Lord willing...

[mrconstance]

Angels are not men, any more than God is.

Alan

[BlueJay180]

Like I had said before on a previous post about angels, Pastor Alan, angels have no sex but they do appear male/masculine.