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Splayd
11th February 2007, 01:56 AM
Have you ever become distracted for a period of time and lost focus of the truth? Things you saw clear and true take a back seat while your attention is diverted. I just got back from there. :)

For me - recognising that some cults could trace their roots back to the RM, coupled with the realisation that some that still associate themselves with the RM are really messed up... led me to a serious time of questioning and soul searching. THANKS for your patience and prayers while I went through that :)

I reached a point where I just wanted to distance myself from the RM altogether. The problem is - there's not a perfect denomination out there and I didn't really want to be associated with any particular brand. It's not meant to be about brands. THE Church - founded in and by Christ in AD33 didn't have a brandname. It didn't have a sign out the front that said "Catholic" or "Orthodox" or "Protestant". It was just His church. The divisions developed along the way. I don't have a major issue with people meeting with others of similiar persuasions and convictions and/or attaching another label to that... but it certainly seems unnecessarily divisive to me. Why not JUST be christian? SO that's what I decided to do - forget being a part of the Reformation or the Restoration or the (insert label here) and just focus on being His!

The next problem becomes - if we're not associated with any particular tradition... what practices can I trust? I might be able to accomodate some of the Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant traditions. I might be able to recognise how they might be OK... but some of them are competing with others, SO unless I see evidence for them in scripture, I can't be certain that they're right. While I'll recognise their freedom in Christ and won't necessarily shoot down each and every thing that's not evident in scripture... I'll also opt to stick to those things of which I can be certain and avoid the confusing trimmings as potential distractions. Why complicate matters? I'll just be a Christian and simply obey scripture.

Here's the funny thing though - that brings me right back to the Church of Christ... but now with a fuller appreciation of what it really is :)

I'd forgotten that "Church of Christ" isn't a brand. It's what's left when you remove them. We're not saying that we alone are the Church of Christ. We're saying that we are a part of the Church of Christ only (even if our congregation's name differs). YES - that church that was founded in 33AD. That's what we're identifying with and as. We're not saying that those of us who carry the sign are that self same church at the exclusion of the others... We're just recognising that ANY christian is already a part of that church. It's comprised of Baptists, Presbyterians, Catholics, Orthodox etc... who are sincerely found in Christ. The only difference with us, is that we've opted to consider that common unity in Christ to be the only affiliation that ultimately matters and ditched the other brandnames. We're not the only Christians, but we are Christians only. We're what's left when the labels get ripped off :)

Sure - some get messed up along the way. Some have turned it all around and upside-down so that it's all about the signs and brandnames again... but that's their problem because they lost sight of the truth. I'm not going to let their distraction also distract me any further. I've come through this time with a new found appreciation for the simple truths and thank God for it.

Peace

Fireinfolding
11th February 2007, 08:30 PM
I think thats beatifully put. I agree Splade.

Simply, follow Jesus Christ unencumbered and unspotted by the world.

Dont be encumbered by the traditions and commandments of men which turn from the truth.

There is such a simplicity in our pure devotion to Him. He's the Vine we are the branches. As we abide in Him (hear Him and obey Him) we are made partakers of His divine nature having our fruit unto God by Him. The doctrine of Christ is "after godliness" not a "form of it" which denies the very power that God has given us to us TO BECOME "the Sons of God".

There are so many "mountain trails" as I call them. Things which (as you rightly said) are distractions which turn from Him.

The Spirit will tell us (no matter how good sounding or how fair worded a speech is) that theres something "way off" in it. That "the argument" (which might manifest itself) has lost sight of the simplicity, pure devotion to Jesus Christ.

I too must keep in mind this question... "What has this to do with the faith of Christ which works by love?"

The Carnal mind (which is great hatred) will always find its own reasons to "divide". Its being true to its own mindset.

When Paul asks, "Are ye not Carnal"? This question is asked and directly related to the "divisions" which is common to that mindset.

To be "spiritually minded" is life and peace, these definately "manifest themselves"

Those (whose faith) expresses itself in love (being "peacemakers") speak volumes (to me) simply by their example. There just seems to be so few labourers truly laboring in the love of God. I see more slandering, accusations, finger pointing, contentions, strifes, etc. and (to me) manifests its own self contradictions.

Faith expressing itself by love and the simplicity of devotion to Christ alone where its at.

Great post!

Peace

Fireinfolding

AJB4
12th February 2007, 12:28 AM
Have you ever become distracted for a period of time and lost focus of the truth? Things you saw clear and true take a back seat while your attention is diverted. I just got back from there. :)

For me - recognising that some cults could trace their roots back to the RM, coupled with the realisation that some that still associate themselves with the RM are really messed up... led me to a serious time of questioning and soul searching. THANKS for your patience and prayers while I went through that :)

I reached a point where I just wanted to distance myself from the RM altogether. The problem is - there's not a perfect denomination out there and I didn't really want to be associated with any particular brand. It's not meant to be about brands. THE Church - founded in and by Christ in AD33 didn't have a brandname. It didn't have a sign out the front that said "Catholic" or "Orthodox" or "Protestant". It was just His church. The divisions developed along the way. I don't have a major issue with people meeting with others of similiar persuasions and convictions and/or attaching another label to that... but it certainly seems unnecessarily divisive to me. Why not JUST be christian? SO that's what I decided to do - forget being a part of the Reformation or the Restoration or the (insert label here) and just focus on being His!

The next problem becomes - if we're not associated with any particular tradition... what practices can I trust? I might be able to accomodate some of the Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant traditions. I might be able to recognise how they might be OK... but some of them are competing with others, SO unless I see evidence for them in scripture, I can't be certain that they're right. While I'll recognise their freedom in Christ and won't necessarily shoot down each and every thing that's not evident in scripture... I'll also opt to stick to those things of which I can be certain and avoid the confusing trimmings as potential distractions. Why complicate matters? I'll just be a Christian and simply obey scripture.

Here's the funny thing though - that brings me right back to the Church of Christ... but now with a fuller appreciation of what it really is :)

I'd forgotten that "Church of Christ" isn't a brand. It's what's left when you remove them. We're not saying that we alone are the Church of Christ. We're saying that we are a part of the Church of Christ only (even if our congregation's name differs). YES - that church that was founded in 33AD. That's what we're identifying with and as. We're not saying that those of us who carry the sign are that self same church at the exclusion of the others... We're just recognising that ANY christian is already a part of that church. It's comprised of Baptists, Presbyterians, Catholics, Orthodox etc... who are sincerely found in Christ. The only difference with us, is that we've opted to consider that common unity in Christ to be the only affiliation that ultimately matters and ditched the other brandnames. We're not the only Christians, but we are Christians only. We're what's left when the labels get ripped off :)

Sure - some get messed up along the way. Some have turned it all around and upside-down so that it's all about the signs and brandnames again... but that's their problem because they lost sight of the truth. I'm not going to let their distraction also distract me any further. I've come through this time with a new found appreciation for the simple truths and thank God for it.

Peace
Not badly put.

Splayd, how many churches did Jesus promise to build? (Matt 16:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2016:18&version=9), Eph 1:22-23 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Eph%201:22-23;&version=9;), Eph 4:4-6 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Eph%204:4-6;&version=9;)) :D Nah, I'm just kidding.

Bottom line, if you choose to believe that your particular belief system is the only right one, then hey, you're divided. But only because you choose to be.

To unite Christians was the intent of Campbell and the RM. Not to unite Christians into a particular sect which would choose to divide itself from all other Christians because it thinks that it's particular belief system is the only correct one. The hard-line CoC's claim unity, yet they deliberately separate themselves from all others who profess faith in Jesus Christ, because they don't have the same belief system as they do. They're the ones who are separated. The denominations who get over themselves enough to get together and pray about stuff, and rather than squabbling about doctrines, actually try and concentrate on Jesus: They're the ones who are truly united. The hard-line CoC's however, I don't think that they choose to have what I believe Jesus wants them to have: unity with other Christians. They claim unity, yet they are deliberately divided. It's called irony.

It's also funny, because the one passage they always use to bolster their 'we're the one and only church' theory, 1 Corinthians 1:10-13 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%201:10-13;&version=9;), is extremely misapplied, for the basic reason that it addressed only a certain problem that particular church had with baptising members into the name of the Apostles. Do you find many churches today that baptise it's members into the name of Paul, Cephas, or Apollos? I think not. It also asked them if they thought that they were baptised into the name of Paul or if Paul died for them. Would you find many churches today that said that someone else except Jesus Christ died for them? I think not. Notice also that he said 'beseech', which means to appeal to someone. If it had been a command, it would have said, "I command you". That verse does not address 'denominationalism'. That verse indicates to me that if you baptise into the name of Jesus and believe that Jesus is your Lord and Saviour, then you aren't divided, unless of course you choose to be.