What should happen with the common Lutheran forum

[BelindaP]

For background please read here (http://www.christianforums.com/t4775296-concerns-about-our-forum-and-maybe-some-answers.html).

Because of some of the unpleasantness of late, people are discussing the fate of the common Lutheran forum. I am posting this poll to find out what the general Lutheran population thinks on the issue. Please pick a choice and post in the thread about what you think.

[ProfessorMom]

What about a choice for

Leave things as they are?

[Melethiel]

What about a choice for

Leave things as they are?
Seconded.

[BelindaP]

Rats, I forgot that one. I'm planning on keeping a tally in the OP, so if everyone who has that view posts in this thread, I can add up those and include those.

[Melethiel]

What about a choice for

Leave things as they are?
There's an option now. :P

[C.F.W. Walther]

I think a "knock down ,drag out" forum with NO mods.

Mods are like the federal government. The more rules they enforce the more liberties we lose and are taken away.

[BelindaP]

To whomever fixed my poll--thanks. I couldn't figure out how to modify it.

[DaRev]

What about a choice for

Leave things as they are?

Seconded.

Forgive me if I ruffle any feathers, but both of these votes are from people who don't regularly post here and thus are not affected by the continuous problems that have plagued this forum.

I realize that this is an open poll and anyone can vote. But please keep this in mind when making a determination.

[Melethiel]

Keep in mind that I was a regular poster in this forum for over a year. My current lack of activity is a personal issue.

[C.F.W. Walther]

You're personal issue, as you call it, was made public in your posts when you left and it WAS a public issue as you so stated yourself Mel.

[BelindaP]

Perhaps we stayed away because of the problems. We might just hang around now that we're here.

[BelindaP]

Easy there, tiger. We are trying to keep this civil. If you want to tear into her, please do it via PM. Or better yet, just let the past rest and don't tear into her at all.

[porterross]

Will the results of this poll determine an outcome or is it merely being conducted to get a feel for everyone's position?

[DaRev]

Perhaps we stayed away because of the problems. We might just hang around now that we're here.

But if the problems are not resolved, you two might be the only ones left.

[BelindaP]

As a conciliator, I have no power to change anything. I'm hoping that it will serve as a way to let the powers-that-be know what people are thinking. Everyone can be heard, and not just the loud few.

[BelindaP]

Well, that's what I'm here for. I would like to help (in whatever small way I can) to get the problems resolved.

[Melethiel]

You're personal issue, as you call it, was made public in your posts when you left and it WAS a public issue as you so stated yourself Mel.
That incident, which I regret, was what caused me to leave.
The reason I stay away now is for personal reasons which I do not wish to share at the moment.

[dinkime]

keep the main luther forum for fellowship, add an additional SUBforum here for inter-Lutheran debate -- if you feel the need to dicuss/debate some of the more controversial topics, it is done in one of the subforums (either your "camp" or the debate one)

outsiders may ask questions in the general lutheran forum, but all answers must contain a reference to the repliers church body (i.e. someone asks about communion, i would post that "i am a member of a WELS church, in the WELS we...") that way outsiders still learn and are able to ask, and they get the answers they want -- if it turns into debate, it is closed automatically/posts are deleted or moved to the debate area

clear as mud??

[LilLamb219]

I haven't posted anything until now about all this because I just did not know what sounded best for everyone.

But, I really, REALLY like dinkime's suggestion. I think that stating our affiliation instead of just saying I'm Lutheran (in our responses) will really lessen some of the strife around here.

I also like the idea of a separate Lutheran Debate forum....but I KNOW that can get out of hand very quickly and as much as some people don't like over-moderating, it is one place that would definitely need a firm hand.

[Jim47]

keep the main luther forum for fellowship, add an additional SUBforum here for inter-Lutheran debate -- if you feel the need to dicuss/debate some of the more controversial topics, it is done in one of the subforums (either your "camp" or the debate one)

outsiders may ask questions in the general lutheran forum, but all answers must contain a reference to the repliers church body (i.e. someone asks about communion, i would post that "i am a member of a WELS church, in the WELS we...") that way outsiders still learn and are able to ask, and they get the answers they want -- if it turns into debate, it is closed automatically/posts are deleted or moved to the debate area

clear as mud??



This is a good idea. I don't have the authority to put it into place, but I will check into it.

May I also suggest that everyone states somewhere what church affiliation that they belong to? You can use the CF customizer to put this under your name, or put it in your signature or in your avatar. Again, a request, not a demand ;)

[DaRev]

keep the main luther forum for fellowship, add an additional SUBforum here for inter-Lutheran debate -- if you feel the need to dicuss/debate some of the more controversial topics, it is done in one of the subforums (either your "camp" or the debate one)

outsiders may ask questions in the general lutheran forum, but all answers must contain a reference to the repliers church body (i.e. someone asks about communion, i would post that "i am a member of a WELS church, in the WELS we...") that way outsiders still learn and are able to ask, and they get the answers they want -- if it turns into debate, it is closed automatically/posts are deleted or moved to the debate area

clear as mud??

This is good, except there are already debate forums on CF. There could simply be a link to one of them. If a thread turns into a debate, the thread can be relocated to the debate forum, follwing the rules there, and that thread can be linked. This happens in other forums at CF. Threads can and have been moved to other forums in order to comply with the rules in place, with a link from the originating forum thread.

The TCL main forum should be for fellowship only and not theological debate.

[LilLamb219]

DaRev, I personally don't like going to the other CF debate areas...they just are not beneficial to my spiritual health ;) But having a sub-forum for Lutheran debate would be not only unique, but would help satisfy some of our own needs in wanting to debate.

[DaRev]

DaRev, I personally don't like going to the other CF debate areas...they just are not beneficial to my spiritual health ;) But having a sub-forum for Lutheran debate would be not only unique, but would help satisfy some of our own needs in wanting to debate.

Perhaps. And such a sub-forum would need very strict rules and strict enforcement. It would most likely require its own moderation team.

[LilLamb219]

Perhaps. And such a sub-forum would need very strict rules and strict enforcement. It would most likely require its own moderation team.

I agree.

If it had its own team, there would be a need for a mod from each synod (at least the top 3) to be fair to all.

[QuiltAngel]

Keep the subforums for those particular synods allowing others to ask questions of those. General forum for the general discussion as it is now and a debate forum for Lutheran debate and only Lutherans.

I am like LilLamb in that I find going to the general theology sections tend to not be good for me.

[Studeclunker]

Capital Idea!:thumbsup: There's nothing a Lutheran loves to do more than fi.. um, arg... ah, debate. Yeah, that's it, debate!(LOL):D

Seriously, I think a Lutheran debate area is an excellent idea. We would need parlementarian rules to keep the 'claws' at bay. Still, we need a venue for this kind of thing as Lutherans are really at their best (and I must sadly admit, worst:o ) in this area.

[Confess]

I am new and got slapped in the face right off the bat not having read the rules first.

I have to admit. The intolerance for my views shook me up a bit. I saw an interesting question that seemed like a cross-lutheran question and I attempted to answer it as nicely as I could and received toxic posts in return.

I felt unwelcomed (funny as that sounds considering the forum) :)

But ... as I thought about it. I think sometimes we do need an area where we can "preach to the choir" without worrying about those who might come against our views.

With that said, it would be a very dull board if that were the only people to talk to.

People need to learn to communicate in all areas of life, whether they agree or disagree. We need to learn to speak in love (which I am having such a hard time with on the "denominational debate forum":mad: ) even when we do not agree. Be happy with putting out the facts and stop using ad hominem attacks. Stop getting upset when someone has an observation about your church doing something wrong, just address the issue and if you can, prove it wrong.

Getting emotional never helps and only makes us all miserable.

I think most all the people I have met since coming here have been wonderful people who have good questions and insight. I have been having fun reading and posting and hope that it doesn't change.

[ricg]

I favor abolishing the main forum and leaving the subfora. I agree with DeRev's initial assessment that denominational forums exist for a purpose, and the fact is, we are not a single denomination. Dinkime's solution, tagging our denomination, is exactly why there are separate denominational fora -- so everyone knows the perspective of the poster. It's another way of accomplishing the same thing, but why not just stick to the convention of having separate fora for separate denominations. That said, I'd back-up her idea as the next best thing.

I don't know about the idea of a Lutheran debate forum. I don't think "debate" is the problem. The problem is hurt feelings because some folks -- most folks -- begin to feel defensive when their denomination is attacked. Again, that is what the denominational forum is for. To be among like-minded people, and to know that if non-affiliates want to debate, they are the "turf" of the denomination at hand and must be respectful of its specific beliefs. That's what keeps the peace.

Frankly, denominational differences inform this very debate. The "liberals" are happy to be in a big tent and not worry about "the little things that divide us." The "conservatives" don't see these as little things, so they feel a need to make clear what the "true" teaching is, which sounds "judgmental" to the former . . . .

I don't post that much, nor am I easily offended and I hope I don't offend much. I do try to fairly mention the alternative belief when I am aware that another synod teaches differently, but e-communication isn't as simple as one thinks sometimes.

[Jim47]

Confess



People need to learn to communicate in all areas of life, whether they agree or disagree. We need to learn to speak in love (which I am having such a hard time with on the "denominational debate forum":mad: ) even when we do not agree. Be happy with putting out the facts and stop using ad hominem attacks. Stop getting upset when someone has an observation about your church doing something wrong, just address the issue and if you can, prove it wrong.






Suerely you jest! Why, why, why thats not even possible! ;)


Please excuse my humor, at least it was funny to me :P and I need that to relieve stress. This is actually a very good post and I much appreciate your honesty. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[DaRev]

I am new and got slapped in the face right off the bat not having read the rules first.

I have to admit. The intolerance for my views shook me up a bit. I saw an interesting question that seemed like a cross-lutheran question and I attempted to answer it as nicely as I could and received toxic posts in return.

I felt unwelcomed (funny as that sounds considering the forum) :)

But ... as I thought about it. I think sometimes we do need an area where we can "preach to the choir" without worrying about those who might come against our views.

With that said, it would be a very dull board if that were the only people to talk to.

People need to learn to communicate in all areas of life, whether they agree or disagree. We need to learn to speak in love (which I am having such a hard time with on the "denominational debate forum":mad: ) even when we do not agree. Be happy with putting out the facts and stop using ad hominem attacks. Stop getting upset when someone has an observation about your church doing something wrong, just address the issue and if you can, prove it wrong.

Getting emotional never helps and only makes us all miserable.

I think most all the people I have met since coming here have been wonderful people who have good questions and insight. I have been having fun reading and posting and hope that it doesn't change.

So, what you are suggesting is that we stop being Lutherans...:eek:


Seriously, the problem as I have said before, is that we are extremely different theologically. Either the debate needs to be seperated from the general "Lutheran" forum, or the general "Lutheran" forum needs to be dissolved in favor of two seperate fora for "Liberal Lutherans" and "Confessional Lutherans." They are, afterall, different "denominations" just like Methodists and Eastern Orthodox are different.

[ProfessorMom]

DaRev, may I ask you a question? Are you an ordained minister with LCMS?

[Confess]

So, what you are suggesting is that we stop being Lutherans...:eek:


Seriously, the problem as I have said before, is that we are extremely different theologically. Either the debate needs to be seperated from the general "Lutheran" forum, or the general "Lutheran" forum needs to be dissolved in favor of two seperate fora for "Liberal Lutherans" and "Confessional Lutherans." They are, afterall, different "denominations" just like Methodists and Eastern Orthodox are different.
I understand what you are saying.

I mean once the Bible can be interpretated in various ways, then there is no basis for debate that will prove helpful.

I find that I can have a more fruitful debate with a Bible believing Baptist than anyone who interprets the Bible as they wish (mainline liberal denominations).

I have to admit that my impression of those on the liberal forum has increasingly gotten worse now that they have disallowed me from posting and forced me to delete the one post that I made when I was a newbie. And now they are talking about me behind my back on their forum.

How low is that?

But, that is our sinful nature. How do you purpose getting around it?

I mean, sure we can make more and more subforums until we find a tiny few that believe everything we believe, but that is boring. I don't learn much of anything from people who are like minded. I learn from those who oppose me and challenge me to prove to them why I stand where I stand.

[Jim47]

I understand what you are saying.

I mean once the Bible can be interpretated in various ways, then there is no basis for debate that will prove helpful.

I find that I can have a more fruitful debate with a Bible believing Baptist than anyone who interprets the Bible as they wish (mainline liberal denominations).

I have to admit that my impression of those on the liberal forum has increasingly gotten worse now that they have disallowed me from posting and forced me to delete the one post that I made when I was a newbie. And now they are talking about me behind my back on their forum.

How low is that?

But, that is our sinful nature. How do you purpose getting around it?

I mean, sure we can make more and more subforums until we find a tiny few that believe everything we believe, but that is boring. I don't learn much of anything from people who are like minded. I learn from those who oppose me and challenge me to prove to them why I stand where I stand.


One thing for sure, if you keep posting in there you will get pleanty of challanges ;)

Yes, I too miss the in depth discussions we used to have. We had some great minds here and still have some. We just seem to have trouble getting a good discussion/debate going. Got any ideas? :)

[ProfessorMom]

I understand what you are saying.

I mean once the Bible can be interpretated in various ways, then there is no basis for debate that will prove helpful.

I find that I can have a more fruitful debate with a Bible believing Baptist than anyone who interprets the Bible as they wish (mainline liberal denominations).

I have to admit that my impression of those on the liberal forum has increasingly gotten worse now that they have disallowed me from posting and forced me to delete the one post that I made when I was a newbie. And now they are talking about me behind my back on their forum.

How low is that?

But, that is our sinful nature. How do you purpose getting around it?

I mean, sure we can make more and more subforums until we find a tiny few that believe everything we believe, but that is boring. I don't learn much of anything from people who are like minded. I learn from those who oppose me and challenge me to prove to them why I stand where I stand. :cry:

[Confess]

:cry:
Would you care to expand?

Or do you want to put up your dukes?

[Confess]

One thing for sure, if you keep posting in there you will get pleanty of challanges ;)

Yes, I too miss the in depth discussions we used to have. We had some great minds here and still have some. We just seem to have trouble getting a good discussion/debate going. Got any ideas? :)
How about making a Lutheran debate forum?

All threads stay the same and if one gets heated into a debate, then the mods can move it to the debate forum.

Let there be clear definitions of debate (one better then the rules on the denominational debate forum).

What say you?

[ProfessorMom]

One thing for sure, if you keep posting in there you will get pleanty of challanges ;)
It was one of my posts that needed editing.

But I wasn't trying to challenge. Here is the reference. (http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=31716604&postcount=14) Thanks again Confess. I think Confess and I are okay now - I hope. :prayer:

[Jim47]

How about making a Lutheran debate forum?

All threads stay the same and if one gets heated into a debate, then the mods can move it to the debate forum.

Let there be clear definitions of debate (one better then the rules on the denominational debate forum).

What say you?



This is being discussed, but may take some time. I hope it does go through, it would really liven up this place again. We used to have some great debates here, but then everybody started wearing their hearts on their shirt sleeves and instead of debating just started reporting posts :sigh:

The whole trick is to keep the posts constructive and not make personal attacks. I think your posting is great. Just start a discussion and see where it goes. We do allow and encourage debate in the main forum, we just can't challange the others guys faith and beliefs in a persoanl manner. Instead of saying the other guy is wrong, just say according to scripture this is what The Lord says, and of course show your scripture verse. Sound good? Do it :)

[Confess]

It was one of my posts that needed editing.

But I wasn't trying to challenge. Here is the reference. (http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=31716604&postcount=14) Thanks again Confess. I think Confess and I are okay now - I hope. :prayer:
I'm fine. You fine? I think we are all fine?

LOL! ;)

[Confess]

This is being discussed, but may take some time. I hope it does go through, it would really liven up this place again. We used to have some great debates here, but then everybody started wearing their hearts on their shirt sleeves and instead of debating just started reporting posts :sigh:

The whole trick is to keep the posts constructive and not make personal attacks. I think your posting is great. Just start a discussion and see where it goes. We do allow and encourage debate in the main forum, we just can't challange the others guys faith and beliefs in a persoanl manner. Instead of saying the other guy is wrong, just say according to scripture this is what The Lord says, and of course show your scripture verse. Sound good? Do it :)
That sounds great!

A warning would bode well for those involved before moving a thread into the debate forum (that is IF you saw it was heading that way).

I hope that rules of ad hominem attacks would be addressed and a stress of proving your point with Scripture be clear as well.

Prokoving others to anger would be a good thing to address as well (although one man's provoking CAN be another man's playfulness).

[seajoy]

DaRev, may I ask you a question? Are you an ordained minister with LCMS?
I guess you are new here, to this part of the forum :).

Although I've never seen DaRev's credentials :) , he has spoken of his congregation now and then, and is fantastic at describing the bible and theology. Yes, he is a pastor.

Why do you ask?

[DaSeminarian]

I guess you are new here, to this part of the forum :).

Although I've never seen DaRev's credentials :) , he has spoken of his congregation now and then, and is fantastic at describing the bible and theology. Yes, he is a pastor.

Why do you ask?


Yes, DaRev is an ordained minister in the LCMS.

He is a graduate of Concordia St. Louis.

[DaSeminarian]

For background please read here (http://www.christianforums.com/t4775296-concerns-about-our-forum-and-maybe-some-answers.html).

Because of some of the unpleasantness of late, people are discussing the fate of the common Lutheran forum. I am posting this poll to find out what the general Lutheran population thinks on the issue. Please pick a choice and post in the thread about what you think.

As someone who has frequented this board for the past three years (ok, this is my second handle here) but I have seen it get nasty and times and I have made it nasty myself at times. I feel you should leave it be. We all get under each others skin now and again, but for the most part we realize that we are all sinners in need of a savior.

Just because I don't agree with women's ordination (because it isn't scriptural) doesn't mean that I think anyone who goes to a church where a woman is a pastor has lost their salvation because of it.

Just leave us alone. If you change it again I won't ever come back.

[seajoy]

I voted other, because I can't make up my mind which one of the list best describes what I'd like to see here.
I'm sitting between 'leave it as is' or 'subforums become primary forums'.

As has been stated before, there is a huge canyon between ELCA and WELS, LCMS etc...
Although this canyon may not be as wide between individuals, it is very wide at the synod/governing body level. This is where the contention comes from, and those of us from the more conservative branches look to when viewing ELCA's stances.

It's hard to set the two aside in discussions, even though there may be some very conservative ELCA folks here.

Sorry if this makes no sense, but that's my take on it. :prayer:

[KEPLER]

As someone who has frequented this board for the past three years (ok, this is my second handle here) but I have seen it get nasty and times and I have made it nasty myself at times. I feel you should leave it be. We all get under each others skin now and again, but for the most part we realize that we are all sinners in need of a savior.

Just because I don't agree with women's ordination (because it isn't scriptural) doesn't mean that I think anyone who goes to a church where a woman is a pastor has lost their salvation because of it.

Just leave us alone. If you change it again I won't ever come back.
Yep. What Scott said. (Especially the "made it nasty myself" part.)

[C.F.W. Walther]

We have more issues with the monitoring and deleting of our posts in the last 6 months than we have had with each others arguments, heated or otherwise. Do you see the direction this is going?

We've allways had differances of opinions and even though it sometimes goes overboard it allways comes back to center. Someone who gets belegerent or hostile on TCL has usually been corraled and set straight without help from the mods. The main forum shouold be left alone with the subforums as safe havens. The only thing that should be changed is that the members themselves should police there own ranks with minimal intererance from the mods. Otherwise it will be so stiffeling in here that everyone will be afraid to post because they think they will be corected by the mods or have their post deleted.

If you want protection and can't stand the heat then go to the subforums and like daRev said make them liberal and conservative. Also I think that the groups that call themselves Lutheran and are Lutheran in name only should call themselves something else so that other people that visit our forum don't get the wrong impression. People spreading heresy under the name of Lutheran will have a double judgement when they have to account for their actions before the Lord.

"If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them"
II Peter 2:20-21

[UberLutheran]

.

[Edial]

I voted to keep things as they are.

ELCA as well as LCMS have liberal and conservative churches within their own ranks.

Looking at the historical pattern, the splits within each group will probably continue and new groups will appear.

Therefore, we MUST have a common ground (forum), since we have MUCH in common within the respective groups.
That commonality is what is called "Lutheran".

And that commonality also has the salvation message for all that listen.

And concerning having debates.
Debates are one of the necessities of being a Lutheran, since Lutheranism is practically founded on challenges.

RC, EO do not have debates.
When there is one, they immediately are told to ask a Priest and the question is squelched.

Now there are constructive debates and destructive debates. That is another matter.

Some of us might get tired and frustrated in defending own points.
So we could bow out for a little while or to visit our own sub-forums or the fellowship thread that we have where theological debates are not allowed.

A Lutheran must have that spark of debating in him.
And that spark must be cultivated and directed in a healthy way.

Thanks, :)
Ed

[DaSeminarian]

Post Deleted by Luther1521

[Confess]

I think it's been more than adequately demonstrated in the common Lutheran forum that people are not going to "play nice" and agree to disagree, agreeably.

Close it down, lock it up, and throw away the key!
How does one "agree to disagree"?

That resolves nothing.

[DaRev]

It looks as though the overwhelming opinion of those who answered the poll is to leave things as they are.

I am curious as to how many who voted actually post here regularly. I know of a few who do not, and I don't believe that the poll acurately reflects the views of the regulars here.

I hope and pray that something does indeed change here, otherwise it will become a very lonely place... at least as far as the Confessionals go.

[BigNorsk]

I was under the impression that the Confessionals were the largest group here, but maybe after the defections east that is no longer true.

I think I'll start a topic to see.

Marv

[Edial]

It looks as though the overwhelming opinion of those who answered the poll is to leave things as they are.

I am curious as to how many who voted actually post here regularly. I know of a few who do not, and I don't believe that the poll acurately reflects the views of the regulars here.

I hope and pray that something does indeed change here, otherwise it will become a very lonely place... at least as far as the Confessionals go.
I do not think that the validity of the poll should be dependant primarily on the views of regular posters.

Even if some do not post regularly they do have a right to have a gathering place where they could post whenever they wish or have time.

Besides, some that are not regulars could eventually become regulars.

Thanks,
Ed

[porterross]

Besides, some that are not regulars could eventually become regulars.



Depending on how they're treated by some here with an unreasonable, territorial posture. :sigh:

[DaRev]

I do not think that the validity of the poll should be dependant primarily on the views of regular posters.

Even if some do not post regularly they do have a right to have a gathering place where they could post whenever they wish or have time.

Besides, some that are not regulars could eventually become regulars.

Thanks,
Ed

The vast majority of them are not regular posters BECAUSE of the current condition of things here.

[Edial]

Depending on how they're treated by some here with an unreasonable, territorial posture. :sigh:
I see the main forum as a place where Lutherans develop their "gifts". :)

Luther's "Table Talk" ala Cirque de Soleil ... :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cirque_du_Soleil

Cirque de Soleil
It has been described as the modern circus, and focuses upon a storyline as well as amazing performances. It has several resident and touring troupes and draws heavily from the circus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circus_%28performing_art%29) tradition. Emphasizing the use of humans as performers, Cirque du Soleil does not make use of animals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal). Instead, its performances combine elements of street performances and busking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Busking), circus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circus_%28performing_art%29), opera (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera), ballet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballet), and rock music (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_music). Acts include contortionists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contortion), jugglers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juggling), feats of strength (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strongman_%28strength_athlete%29), clowning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clown), and trapeze artists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trapeze). Their costumes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costume) are very colorful. Cirque shows traditionally do not use pre-recorded music; with some exceptions all music is played live, and in many performances the spoken parts are done in Cirquish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cirquish), an imaginary language invented by the company.
Cirque shows begin as a creative concept, usually with elements of a central story line, a design concept and the selection of a composer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composer) for the music. These elements remain relatively constant throughout the production run of a given show.
However, the shows also include both "house" and "guest" acts. House acts are performed by the full-time cast members, some whom may be involved in several routines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Routines). Not all prepared routines are presented in every performance. Guest acts rotate in and out over the run of the show (clowns are typically guest acts). As a result, Cirque shows can vary somewhat performance to performance, and shows tend to evolve over time. Cirque creators borrow from some of circus's earliest forms (for example, banquine (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:List_of_protologisms#B) and teeterboard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teeterboard) acts) but also regularly introduce new apparatus. For example, Cirque introduced the use of bungee cords to aerial acts and created a modified tumbling trampoline (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trampoline) called a Power Track, both of which have since been adopted by other circuses.
Cirque du Soleil recruits acts from different world circuses, including from China (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China) and Russia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia), blending them into their own style.
Among veteran circus performers, Cirque is regarded as one of the world's best circuses, due to higher than normal pay scales and benefits.
...

:)

[Edial]

The vast majority of them are not regular posters BECAUSE of the current condition of things here.
Good point.
So if we make them feel welcome by projecting positive attitudes, perhabs they'll stay.

Oh, they'll get their share of agreements and disagreements - this they can count on.
But they should also count on fellowship while having disagreements.

I find Lutheranism fascinating. :)

Thanks,
Ed

[Flipper]

I think a lot of people have unreal expectations of what this forum should be.

I got hurt bad by some here when I posted my sadness and anger at the loss of a child I was close to in December, and all I seemed to get was yelled at because of what I was feeling at the time. I was just looking for a hug and for someone to tell me everything was going to be ok. That wasn't what I got from most people - or rather it certainly didn't feel that way.

I quickly learned this is not the place for that sort of thing. This is the place to talk about being Lutheran. If I have a personal problem, or if I need a "friend", I take it to another forum, or probably handle it in a more healthy manner and talk to a "live" friend.

It's nothing to get mad it - this forum is what it is, I shouldn't waste my time trying to make it what it isn't.

Think about what this forum is, and what you realistically want out of it. Can that mesh? If it can't, you either adapt, or you find something else? I guess I chose to adapt.

[seajoy]

I remember that happening to you, Flipper. Sorry there wasn't more comfort for you here.

I have really found most folks to be quite helpful here, when I'm down.

[porterross]

Wow! That's awful, Flipper.

I wish I had looked in when you shared that. I'm sorry, for everything.

[Flipper]

No, I was looking for a pity party then, and it was made abundantly clear that is not what this forum is. It's nothing to be upset or sorry about.

[seajoy]

No, I was looking for a pity party then, and it was made abundantly clear that is not what this forum is. It's nothing to be upset or sorry about.
Never mind, then.

[porterross]

I see the main forum as a place where Lutherans develop their "gifts". :)

Luther's "Table Talk" ala Cirque de Soleil ... :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cirque_du_Soleil

Cirque de Soleil
It has been described as the modern circus, and focuses upon a storyline as well as amazing performances. It has several resident and touring troupes and draws heavily from the circus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circus_%28performing_art%29) tradition. Emphasizing the use of humans as performers, Cirque du Soleil does not make use of animals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal). Instead, its performances combine elements of street performances and busking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Busking), circus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circus_%28performing_art%29), opera (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera), ballet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballet), and rock music (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_music). Acts include contortionists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contortion), jugglers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juggling), feats of strength (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strongman_%28strength_athlete%29), clowning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clown), and trapeze artists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trapeze). Their costumes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costume) are very colorful. Cirque shows traditionally do not use pre-recorded music; with some exceptions all music is played live, and in many performances the spoken parts are done in Cirquish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cirquish), an imaginary language invented by the company.
Cirque shows begin as a creative concept, usually with elements of a central story line, a design concept and the selection of a composer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composer) for the music. These elements remain relatively constant throughout the production run of a given show.
However, the shows also include both "house" and "guest" acts. House acts are performed by the full-time cast members, some whom may be involved in several routines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Routines). Not all prepared routines are presented in every performance. Guest acts rotate in and out over the run of the show (clowns are typically guest acts). As a result, Cirque shows can vary somewhat performance to performance, and shows tend to evolve over time. Cirque creators borrow from some of circus's earliest forms (for example, banquine (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:List_of_protologisms#B) and teeterboard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teeterboard) acts) but also regularly introduce new apparatus. For example, Cirque introduced the use of bungee cords to aerial acts and created a modified tumbling trampoline (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trampoline) called a Power Track, both of which have since been adopted by other circuses.
Cirque du Soleil recruits acts from different world circuses, including from China (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China) and Russia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia), blending them into their own style.
Among veteran circus performers, Cirque is regarded as one of the world's best circuses, due to higher than normal pay scales and benefits.
...

:)


Interesting analogy, Ed, but if someone gets out of line, they need to be prepared to be transported to the hospital to have something removed:

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k101/pocolocogal/clownshoe.gif

:)