Temporary change

[Jim47]

It really makes me sad to have to ask this, but in light of all the problems that we have in cross posting of conservatives in the ELCA Liberal sub forum, I am asking all conservatives to refrain from posting there. I want to make this clear that it is a request, but also highly recommended.

On the other hand, unless I recieve complaints, the conservative sub forum will continue to allow liberals, but not for debating. Asking questions or fellowship is fine.

Please feel free to offer your comments on this proposal. :)

[porterross]

I'm not trying to be difficult here, however, are we conservative members in turn not allowed to question the imbalance of being moderated by a liberal member?

[DaRev]

I'm not trying to be difficult here, however, are we conservative members in turn not allowed to question the imbalance of being moderated by a liberal member?

I agree.

I remember not long ago that the only staffers we had were of the liberal camp, and it was not pleasant. We lost several members. Jim is a refreshing addition to the staff. I pray that he does not become discouraged.

[Jim47]

I'm not trying to be difficult here, however, are we conservative members in turn not allowed to question the imbalance of being moderated by a liberal member?


The main forum will likely always have a combination of both liberal and conservative members. This is actually for the benefit of all, as each group should be represented. I try my level best to be as un biased as humanly possible, but I also need the perspective of liberals as a teaching aide to me.

Anytime you see something that you feel is wrong, or if you should be reported and feel it is unjust, you can two things.

If it is an infraction they can be appealed, and the consilators will assit you with this.

If its a warning, they actually do not count unless you pile them up. You can also Pm me about these and I will explain best I can.

What I have saud here is for benefit of both liberal and conservatie members. All have equal rights under forum rules.

[porterross]

I appreciate and fully comprehend that position in regard to the combined forum, but within the Conservative sub-forum, I for one do not appreciate being moderated by anyone other than a Conservative Lutheran.

[BelindaP]

It should not matter if the moderator is conservative or liberal. All they are supposed to do is enforce CF rules, not determine whose doctrine is correct.

[C.F.W. Walther]

It should not matter if the moderator is conservative or liberal. All they are supposed to do is enforce CF rules, not determine whose doctrine is correct.
But unfortunately that is not the case. They are biased.

[Jim47]

It should not matter if the moderator is conservative or liberal. All they are supposed to do is enforce CF rules, not determine whose doctrine is correct.


This is actually quite correct. I do understand your fears PorterRoss, but I don't think you have to worry. For one, we can debate each other all we want in our sub forum without a problem, forum rules do still apply though. ;)

[BelindaP]

If you perceive cases of bias, then you can report them or forward all of the relevant posts and PM's to the Conciliators. I'm not sure which synod ProfessorMom is in, but I'm in the LCMS.

[porterross]

It sure shouldn't be, but it remains an issue for us and unless something changes in that area, I will be very scarce here.
It's unfair that we've lost a great many wonderful posters here because of this issue and I wonder at what point it will be tackled instead of shrugged off as our unwillingness to accept the status quo.

[C.F.W. Walther]

The mods don't communicate between each other so why shouold we even bother with reporting anything. It usually doesn't make any difference what we say because somebody allways comes back with "it's the rule here".

I'm getting tired of sneezing wrong and worrying if I'll be baned or posts deleted becasue of it.

[BelindaP]

One of the jobs of the conciliators is to hold moderators accountable. If they aren't communicating with each other or addressing people's concerns, we can do our level best to effect some sort of change.

[porterross]

This is actually quite correct. I do understand your fears PorterRoss, but I don't think you have to worry. For one, we can debate each other all we want in our sub forum without a problem, forum rules do still apply though. ;)


I rarely worry, dear one. ;)

My feathers are getting downright ruffled!!!!! :mad:

Sorry, but I rarely get to use the festering anger emoticon. :sorry: :P

[C.F.W. Walther]

I'll still say any wide open forum with no rules is monitored by the participants themselves. Any adult will in time learn to temper his responces according to the will of ther group. Nobody likes being ostrtacized. Even the irratic.

[DaRev]

If you perceive cases of bias, then you can report them or forward all of the relevant posts and PM's to the Conciliators.

This was tried against the moderator in question some time ago (during my absence, so I had no part in it), but it was fruitless.

[BelindaP]

Try again. ProfessorMom and I are new to the team.

[porterross]

It's too late for many valued members and God bless, DaRev for having the fortitude to come back here and try to address and, God willing correct, these issues.

The others obviously have chosen not to, much to our chagrin. They were knowledgeable and we miss them here on many levels. These fora are the poorer for their being absent and this wrong needs to be corrected if at all possible.

How would you like to not feel welcome to fellowship within your own denomination?

[Edial]

I'll still say any wide open forum with no rules is monitored by the participants themselves. Any adult will in time learn to temper his responces according to the will of ther group. Nobody likes being ostrtacized. Even the irratic.

And if a will of a dominant group prevails, then the weaker one will still be ostracized, the very thing you want to avoid.

However, we are a Christian forum.
There are rules that must be observed and maintained.
The recent explosion certainly testifies to that.

Ed

[C.F.W. Walther]

And if a will of a dominant group prevails, then the weaker one will still be ostracized, the very thing you want to avoid.

However, we are a Christian forum.
There are rules that must be observed and maintained.
The recent explosion certainly testifies to that.

EdWeaker in what?? FAITH???

We are to be bold Christians. If we deny Him on earth He will deny us in heaven.

NO MODS AND NO RULES ! !

[jcj3803]

I am asking all conservatives to refrain from posting there. I want to make this clear that it is a request, but also highly recommended. :)

To be fair you should ban liberals from the conservative forum as well. What's good for the goose...

As I am WELS/LCMS by origin but currently a regular visitor at an ELCA church, am I allowed to post in either? :confused:

[Jim47]

To be fair you should ban liberals from the conservative forum as well. What's good for the goose...

As I am WELS/LCMS by origin but currently a regular visitor at an ELCA church, am I allowed to post in either? :confused:


Yes you can post in both. As for keeping Liberals out of the conservative sub forum, this was discsussed among the conservaties some time ago and it was the gereral concensus that we would allow anyone, even non Lutherans to post there. There were however limitations, such as we had some visitors that our wore their welcome by becoming obnoxious and refusing to give up their rant.

[Jim47]

The mods don't communicate between each other so why shouold we even bother with reporting anything. It usually doesn't make any difference what we say because somebody allways comes back with "it's the rule here".

I'm getting tired of sneezing wrong and worrying if I'll be baned or posts deleted becasue of it.



This partly true, do only to the fact that I have been the only active mod for a long time. However when others have been available, we do communiate, and I also communicated withmy superiors, so yiu are essentialy wrong.

I will address your last thoughts when we can get together and talk privately. Let me know when you are ready, I've been waiting.

[DaRev]

As I am WELS/LCMS by origin but currently a regular visitor at an ELCA church, am I allowed to post in either? :confused:

You are certainly welcome to post there, as far as I'm concerned. But if you post something that is theologically incorrect, expect to be corrected. :preach:

[LilLamb219]

You are certainly welcome to post there, as far as I'm concerned. But if you post something that is theologically incorrect, expect to be corrected. :preach:

I expect to be corrected theologically speaking, no matter where I post :wave:

[jcj3803]

But if you post something that is theologically incorrect, expect to be corrected. :preach:

Well, I could be ornery and ask, "By whose theology?" but I'd admitedly just be baiting you. :P

Seriously, I want to really dig into the theology and I expect to be corrected. Denominational theology is the most important aspect of a church to me, although it might not always appear that way.

[porterross]

Well, I could be ornery and ask, "By whose theology?" but I'd admitedly just be baiting you. :P

Seriously, I want to really dig into the theology and I expect to be corrected. Denominational theology is the most important aspect of a church to me, although it might not always appear that way.
A kindred spirit. I, too, desire to be fed with such knowledge so the more clarification requests you post benefits us all.

[DaRev]

Well, I could be ornery and ask, "By whose theology?" but I'd admitedly just be baiting you. :P

That might be considered a "flame." :P ;)

[Studeclunker]

Originally Posted by DaRev http://www3.christianforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=31727403#post31727403)
But if you post something that is theologically incorrect, expect to be corrected. :preach:


LOL:D oh my yes! Lutherans are an onery lot when it comes to theology!;) This, the liberal branches share, wholeheartedly with the conservative (LOL:D ). Then again, now days when the edges of theology and morality seem to be atomizing (to the conservative Lutheran), a firm stand must be taken. Elsewise, we will '...be blown about by the whims of human reason and crafty teachings...'

[CaliforniaJosiah]

The mods don't communicate between each other so why shouold we even bother with reporting anything. It usually doesn't make any difference what we say because somebody allways comes back with "it's the rule here".

I'm getting tired of sneezing wrong and worrying if I'll be baned or posts deleted becasue of it.


I'm not permitted to discuss staff actions or interactions, but I can share this: Nearly always, Reports are worked by as many staffers as possible, and generally to a consensus. VERY rarely would a Report be worked to action by a single staffer - almost never. We do need to abide by those above us (Jim 'out-ranks' us mods), but generally we discuss it out among us. Here in ET, we are finally getting to where all the forums have more than one or two mods - and when I was a supervisor here, we tried HARD to not only secure such but to provide for a balance in each, since nearly every faith tradition has the same tensions that we do here. (I was the one who twisted Jim's arm to be a mod for exactly that reason). Yes, ABSOLUTELY, we all DO bring our biases, but we're all committed to fairness and the level application of the rules - and we hold eachother accountable in that, and it's Jim's role to be sure we are and to hold our feet to the fire, as it were.

We're all mere mortals. Mistakes DO get made. Sometimes because of biases or frustrations, sometimes just because all these mod functions and roles are large and complex (I'm really struggling to get back into the grove of how all this works - having not been a mod since last April or May). I'd hope a little understanding is issued to the volunteer staff, as staff OFTEN does with posters in Reports (rarely does anyone know when we let something go, only when an official action is taken on them).

I promise to do my best. To place fairness - mixed with generous portions of evangelical grace and mercy - above my own opinions or feelings or friendships or theological biases. My best. Friends, that's all I can offer. Is my best "good enough?" Probably not. For that I seek your forgiveness and patience. But it's all I have to offer. We welcome all to join staff who are willing and will commit the time, learn all the skills, and put up with the PM's, etc. At least the money is good (LOL)!


My $0.01


Pax!


- Josiah

[DaRev]

but we're all committed to fairness and the level application of the rules

I wouldn't say "all."

[porterross]

I wouldn't say "all."
Hear, hear!

[Edial]

Weaker in what?? FAITH???

We are to be bold Christians. If we deny Him on earth He will deny us in heaven.

NO MODS AND NO RULES ! !
But if one is weaker in faith (as you see it), shouldn't the one who is stronger in faith not to condemn him?

RO 14:1 Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. ..... 4 Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

If these verses would be applied, the responsibilities of the mods would become practically unneeded.

Wouldn't you agree?

Ed

[Studeclunker]

On Romans 14:1 alone, Ed, I would have to agree, that's what the verse seems to say. However, it goes on to say that the dietary and festival traditions of the church are to be introduced gently. This, if you will forgive me pointing out, is not the JW sub-forum though. Lutheran doctrine and theology isn't based upon just one verse. Yes, when we bring in a new member into our congregation we are to be kind and understanding. Same here in this forum. If an outsider comes in, we are to be kind and provide them with the information they request without debasing them or their beliefs.

Scripture requires that we defend our faith.

"For there are many... ...who will not recognize authority, who talk nonsense and yet in so doing have managed to decieve men's minds. They must be silenced... "

Now if I wanted to use a line of scripture out of context I could use this one to justify being sharp with an erring brother. By the by, it referrs to Cretins, not our fellow forum members;
"Don't hesitate to reprimand them sharply, for you want them to be sound and healthy Christians, with a proper contempt for Jewish fairy tales and orders issued by men who have forsaken the path of truth."

Another:
"God's spirit specifically tells us that in later days there will be men who abandon the true faith and allow themselves to be spiritually seduced by teachings of demons, teachings given by men who are lying hypocrites, whose consciences are as dead as seared flesh."

Not much has changed in two thousand years, hmmm?