Been a long time, but need help with a paper

[Music4Hym777]

Hey everyone,

I have been very busy this semester and lots of last semester too. No, I did not wind up getting married and am actually currently single. The engagement did end in April and while my ex-fiance and I are still extremely close I do not think that God has marriage planned for us. We are great together as friends and partners in God's ministry, but we were not good when it came to being a couple.

Anyways now that the update is over here is where I could use help, for one of my major courses that is going to be a precursor to my master's thesis I need to get some evidence of the relationship between church and state in the time that Luther was alive. Any ideas where to go other than the Augsburg Confession and his letter to Pope Leo X?

Thanks,
Monica

[Studeclunker]

What exactly are you looking for, in regards to the 'relationship between church and state'?

At that time, the state was largely an aristocratic hierarhical society. This consisted of emperors, kings, and lesser princes. Then came the dukes, marquises, and so on of the lesser aristocracy. All of this was supervised by the Papal authority.
It could be said that the state was soverign over the people and lands but was subject to the Church. As such, it could be argued that the Church was the state. For example, a king had to have the Pope's approval to wage war. Otherwise, he could find himself deposed. They also had to have the Popes approval in succession, and marriage. You might want to look into texts on the Holy Roman Empire, Charlemaigne, and etc...

At the time of Martin Luther, the Roman Catholic Church was at it's height of authority. His percieved challenging of this authority in the 95 thesis, was seen as extremely dangerous by the Papal head. It was also during this period that the King of England, Henry VIII, challenged the authority of the Pope and separated the Church of England. But still the Church remained part of the British government.
Any text dealing with the fifteenth and sixteenth century rulers and or governments will reveal details on the relationship of the state to the church. I would suggest looking for older texts as the newer ones have begun watering down the facts in this area.

By the way, this relationship is exactly why this phrase was placed in the US constitution:
Congress shall not establish a national congregation.

This doesn't translate to separation of church and state. Rather it simply states that we have no national, or state, church. The founding fathers recognized that the worst thing for the Church is the state. The constitution is very careful to protect the Church from the state. However, it is very interesting that a careful study of the Constitution will reveal no such protection of the state from the church. Sorry, that Constitution thing was a bit of a rabbit trail.

[synger]

A book from the library that I've been reading that really opened my eyes to some of the conflicts between church and state in Luther's time is "Luther: Man between God and the Devil (http://www.amazon.com/Luther-Man-Between-God-Devil/dp/0300103131/sr=8-6/qid=1170423081/ref=sr_1_6/104-6322659-2643915?ie=UTF8&s=books)". It's been helping me understand more of the medieval mindset, especially as has to do with the duties of "Christian Princes" and the tensions between the burgeoning national identity movement and the Papacy. Sounds like it might be helpful for you.

[IowaLutheran]

Here's another book to look at which specifically deals with Lutheran perspectives on church/state:

http://www.amazon.com/Church-State-Perspectives-John-Stumme/dp/080063604X/sr=1-1/qid=1170423974/ref=sr_1_1/102-1780856-3585764?ie=UTF8&s=books

[Music4Hym777]

Thanks for the info ya'll, it should help me out some, plus I have some texts for other classes that should be able to help me out.