Constantine wrote Matt 28:19

[Fireinfolding]

Constantine Wrote Matt 28:19 (http://www.israelofgod.org/Constantine.htm)

I found this very interesting I thought you guys might find this the same.

Peace

Fireinfolding




(This thread contains a Mod Hat post (http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=31758612&postcount=33) of caution from a CF moderator)

[WesWoodell]

Don't believe it.

P.S. - here's another article by the same author predicting that the world will end in 2031 A.D.

http://www.israelofgod.org/jubilee.htm

Come on. :doh:

[Fireinfolding]

Don't believe it.

P.S. - here's another article by the same author predicting that the world will end in 2031 A.D.

http://www.israelofgod.org/jubilee.htm

Come on. :doh:

What on earth are you talking about???

Its heavily documented.

I could care less about any mans THOUGHTS anyone can be a hairbrain.

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

The author of that site is a heretic. He is a oneness (unitarian) believer and nothing he asserts comes from the foundation of truth. As well he is a Judaizer. Nothing from his site should be taken with any seriousness by Christans.

http://www.israelofgod.org/genesis1.htm - Proof of the author's oneness beliefs

His agenda in the OP's link is a oneness agenda and not at all something any Christian should take seriously. He denies the Trinity and as such his wiritings, musings, and prophecy are all from somewhere other than God.

[WesWoodell]

What on earth are you talking about???

Its heavily documented.

I could care less about any mans THOUGHTS anyone can be a hairbrain.

lol

Well to be honest I didn't really read it. I've never heard that before, and when I saw some of the other things the author had written I felt like reading his material would probably be a waste of time.

Maybe I'll look at it later. Don't get your feathers ruffled. :P

[Fireinfolding]

The author of that site is a heretic.

How does scripture define a heretic? and howso do you find this man a heretic?

He is a oneness (unitarian) believer

Im not up on mens words or labels given to men, I know only a follower of Jesus Christ or not a follower of Jesus Christ.

Im ignorant and theres apparently some evil being seen in "oneness" Did not our Lord say, "The Lord our God is ONE GOD? Did our Lord not pray that WE would be one as He and the Father are one? Is oneness a "bad word" Im not up on? Is this the evil your alluding to or is it some other? Oneness isnt always a bad thing just like apples you got good ones and you got bad ones but not all are bad.

and nothing he asserts comes from the foundation of truth.

Thats not true as scripture is posted and because its scripture its the truth. How he comes to the understanding he does is not my concern. I dont read everymans stuff and as long as hes not sticking his stuff down my thoat Im kool with that.

I was simply sharing a well documented article founded on many witness not just one nut. I'm not interested in digging through his personal underwear drawer to discredit one thing out of another. I'm not interested in slandering the man to distract from the article at hand containing many other witnesses.

Im considering the account and the witnesses only.

Theres alot of hot air everywhere, none are exempt from being full of it.

I might trust the FBI or CIA investigator concerning "evidences" containing witnesses, but I could care less what his personal beliefs are because I have "my own".

His beliefs might be weird and as I glanced over I indeed find some of his weird. I "might" find alot of peoples beliefs to be weird.

Theres a thousand denomonations (and within those splinter groups). This among millions, this shows we all think something is weird (or "not measuring up" in our own minds over anothers) concerning what another believes right?

As well he is a Judaizer. Nothing from his site should be taken with any seriousness by Christans.

Because he has a ~days~ "hang up" possibly, Im not sure. I dont follow the guy. I saw it posted and found it interesting. Its a "no brainer" to do a google search get crap on the guy to discredit him but we got the "others" to do a google search on then dont we? It gets ridiculous honestly as no two christians agree among themselves and finding fault is easy with anyone, including myself.

Lets put it this way. The FBI blows a case wide open (having many witnesses with written testimonies) of the account. This account contains (besides the writer) investigations, documentation, critical witnesses and scriptural comparisons right? Would we excuse the case (witnesses and proofs) as having no merit because the one who simply wrote the inclusive parts of a "documented" account was a cross dresser? That is obviously not the case here. Just because the man might be considered "weird" does that invalidate the witnesses that testified, do these now come to mean nothing simply because the wrong man put it together (naming the sources in the article)?

See what I mean?


http://www.israelofgod.org/genesis1.htm (http://www.israelofgod.org/genesis1.htm) - Proof of the author's oneness beliefs

Like I said, I dont know why "oneness" is a badword its scriptural, can you be more specific for the ignorant such as myself concerning the new meaning of "oneness" I might not be hip to?

His agenda in the OP's link is a oneness agenda and not at all something any Christian should take seriously.

This "oneness" agenda must be soomething else huh? Jesus had a oneness agenda when it came to his disciples being one, Im sure you'll inform me of this awful oneness deal, you got me curious now...

He denies the Trinity and as such his wiritings, musings, and prophecy are all from somewhere other than God.


Wow... you seem to have alot to say, Im into "testing all things" for myself personally though I appreciate the extra push off the edge toward the negative side of the boat lol.

I dont get those "terms" you use as Im not familiar with mens doctrines myself or their words. I just like to use pure scripture it takes the "guessing work out" if you know what I mean. Then theres no need to run to men to find out how they define all the new words one can find in script (becoming bad) and words you cant find in script becoming elevated "above script". Strange world we live in, so forgive my ignorance since I dont ascribe to mens words. I have come to realize that there seems to carry a heavy penalty in not taking mens words upon oneself. I have witnesses others cast out on the "basis of them", God forgive them. I certainly cant "keep up" as many who use them change them so often then (the many who use them) contradict their own explanations as well as eac other. Im sure you understand my dilema and how I could be confused amen? They often do that after they explain saying, "It is a mystery you can explain it (and neither can I) but if you cant "get it" get out ... that sorta thing, That makes no sense whatsoever.

Its written that He that HATH "the SON" hath the Father (not the otherway around) for we believe Gods record of His Son and no one can say Jesus is Lord save by the Holy Spirit. He does not deny this as I understood it.


I would not judge or cast accusations on any man who brings many of the witnesses are listed below to our attention of something.

Among the few mentioned involved with this is more then one man heres a few listed in the article, shall we knock them dead on a google search too?

A. Ploughman of Birmingham, England
Biblical historian Dr. C. R. Gregory
F.C. Conybeare

Evidence from the following men

Eusebius of Caesurae known as Eusebius Pamphili
Origen
Clement of Alexandria
Justin Martyr
Macedonius
Eunomius
Aphraates

Ludwig Knupfer, the editor of the Christadelphian Monatshefte

Some of the Distinguished scholars
Alfred Loisy, J
. Wellhausen,
Eberhard Nestle,
Adolf Harnack

<DIV>"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) In this verse, the Greek word translated as “prove” is dokimazo, and it means, “to test, examine, prove, scrutinize (to see whether a thing is genuine or not), to recognize as genuine after examination, to approve, deem worthy.<I>”

[Fireinfolding]

lol

Well to be honest I didn't really read it. I've never heard that before, and when I saw some of the other things the author had written I felt like reading his material would probably be a waste of time.

Maybe I'll look at it later. Don't get your feathers ruffled. :P


My feathers are in place;)

I dont blame you for not reading it I avoid most mens stuff altogether. It was an inward leading to check this one out due to another reason I will keep to myself.

The other sources within the article are mentioned and anyone of us can judge whether it be worth a look.

Its neither here nor there with me personally. I have my own beliefs and what others believe is between them and God.

Its been interesting participating on a Christian forum. Take care

Peace

Fireinfolding

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

How does scripture define a heretic? and howso do you find this man a heretic?
In this case one who denies the Trinity. One who denies the Godhead is three persons as defined in scripture.

Im not up on mens words or labels given to men, I know only a follower of Jesus Christ or not a follower of Jesus Christ.
If someone claims to follow Christ and does not believe that he is separate from the Father, simply a mode in which God reveals himself, then they follow a different Christ.

Im ignorant and theres apparently some evil being seen in "oneness" Did not our Lord say, "The Lord our God is ONE GOD? Did our Lord not pray that WE would be one as He and the Father are one? Is oneness a "bad word" Im not up on? Is this the evil your alluding to or is it some other? Oneness isnt always a bad thing just like apples you got good ones and you got bad ones but not all are bad.[/quiote]
Oneness is always wrong. It denies that God is three persons. This the doctrine espoused by the person who wrote that site. It is also known as modalism.

[quote]Thats not true as scripture is posted and because its scripture its the truth. How he comes to the understanding he does is not my concern. I dont read everymans stuff and as long as hes not sticking his stuff down my thoat Im kool with that.
Anyone can twist scriupture however they like. Look at Fred Phelps, David Koresh, and so on. They all quote scripture. Scripture taken out of context is no longer the truth as it has been perverted for man's use and is no longer what God intended for it to be.

I was simply sharing a well documented article founded on many witness not just one nut. I'm not interested in digging through his personal underwear drawer to discredit one thing out of another. I'm not interested in slandering the man to distract from the article at hand containing many other witnesses.
From a man who denies the very basis for Christianity. Atheism is confirmed by many witnesses and it is not the truth.

Im considering the account and the witnesses only.
And what is the point of the article? It is a denial of one of the basic doctrines of Christianity. Regardless of how many witnesses there are it is still wrong.

Theres alot of hot air everywhere, none are exempt from being full of it.
And when one denies basic doctrines then nothing they say comes from a foundation of truth.

My whole point, which doesn't require me to address each point, is that since this writer denies the Trinity then nothing he says comes from a foundation of truth. He can speak of God all day but when he utters the word God he does not refer to the same God that is the God of Christianity. He refers to a God of his own creation essentially. It is not the God found in scripture and as such nothing he says can be true about God.

[Fireinfolding]

In this case one who denies the Trinity. One who denies the Godhead is three persons as defined in scripture.

He acknowledges the Son. His point was Jesus name, how can you say otherwise?

If we stick to scripture wherein we are justified and consent to wholesome words it actually says this.

1John 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the SAME hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

1Cr 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is THE LORD, BUT by the Holy Ghost.

Where has this man been found guilty of the things scripture defines. It would be adding to scripture to say that He denies a "trinity". John is making clear that in acknowledging the SON one hath the Father (to know this) and by reason He confesses Jesus As Lord is by the the Holy ghost. Scripture dont support the accusation.


If someone claims to follow Christ and does not believe that he is separate from the Father, simply a mode in which God reveals himself, then they follow a different Christ.

So Jesus is wrong?

John 10:30 I and my Father are ONE

Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knooweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will REVEAL him

You seem to have a problem with what Jesus spoke here, how do they follow a different Christ according to those accusations?



Oneness is always wrong. It denies that God is three persons. This the doctrine espoused by the person who wrote that site. It is also known as modalism.

I dont care what MEN call anything, labeling others and calling what God has NOT called evil evil is ones own judgment.

Jesus said

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The FIRST of ALL the COMMANDMENTS IS , (((( HEAR; O' ISRAEL ))) The Lord our God is ONE LORD

One is wrong?

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, they may BE ONE, as WE ARE.

One is wrong?

1Cr 8:6 But UNTO US there is ONE GOD, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and ONE LORD Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.

John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may BE ONE, even as WE ARE ONE:

John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they be made perfect IN ONE .

Wheres the problem??


Anyone can twist scriupture however they like.

I just wish those who judge and condemn others GIVE A SCRIIPTURE and would ANSWER to SCRIPTURE ALONE. Is that too much to ask?

Look at Fred Phelps, David Koresh, and so on.

Everyones got some weird thing and everyone THINKS they right, that dont negate the fact we are to abide in his words and be rooted and grounded in love which our faith actually works by. I dont follow men. If the blind lead the blind both will fall in the pit. If the BLIND dont KNOW they are blind ASKING, "What? Are WE BLIND TOO"? shows they havent a CLUE to their own blindness. It would be plainlly stupid to follow any man, if your blind too how on earth can you telll the hand your reaching out for (to guide you) sees anything better then oneself?


They all quote scripture. Scripture taken out of context is no longer the truth as it has been perverted for man's use and is no longer what God intended for it to be.

Satan quotes scripture, he can say say say anything (agreed) but he cant obey Christs command to walk in love. Hes a murderer and our Lord and both John agree that he who HATES (or loveth not) His brother IS a MURDERER and a Liar by biblical definition is one who SAYS ~ "I love GOD " but HATES His brother and IS a LIAR (the very same as the one who is BOTH a liar and a murderer. He cannot OBEY the commandments the two GREATEST upon which the whole law and the prophets hang.


From a man who denies the very basis for Christianity. Atheism is confirmed by many witnesses and it is not the truth.

How does he deny the BASIS for Christianity? You fail to show it PER script only after men who disobedientlly ADD words to scripture. GOD (not "me") Says ADD NOT to HIS WORDS or HE will reprove you and prove you a LIAR. In TWO ways I see it as one who ADDS to HIS WORDS hath ELEVATED what HE says OVER what God says and uses those words to CONDEMN THEIR BRETHREN by this being diobedient in both adding to Gods words and disobedient to CHRISTS command "CONDEMN NOT" they prove themselves a LIAR by NOT consenting to HIS WHOLESOME WORDS.

Athiests deny God, this man hath not denied Christ who hath the Father on the basis of that biblical truth alone.


And what is the point of the article? It is a denial of one of the basic doctrines of Christianity. Regardless of how many witnesses there are it is still wrong.

You still havent answered HOW defending Jesus Christ name only is DENYING the Son of God "by which" one HATH THE FATHER. Nor have you shown how stating Jesus Christ is Lord DENIES even the Holy Ghost if one cannot even SAY "Jesus is Lord" EXCEPT by him.

The argument is even manmade and not even rooted in scripture itself as scripture shows contrary.


And when one denies basic doctrines then nothing they say comes from a foundation of truth.

Foundation? There is NO OTHER foundation that has been laid save the ONE that hath been laid and thats Jesus Christ (thats SCRIPTURE) you still fail to show how this man denies Jesus Christ (who IS the foundation).

My whole point, which doesn't require me to address each point, is that since this writer denies the Trinity then nothing he says comes from a foundation of truth.

Scripture please...John does not say that neither does Jesus.

He can speak of God all day but when he utters the word God he does not refer to the same God that is the God of Christianity.

Thats true of all men who say they love God but HATE their brother, its only words not in DEED and IN TRUTH. Heck one can indeed PROFESS they know God (as scripture shows that) but DENY HIM by THEIR DEEDS

He refers to a God of his own creation essentially. It is not the God found in scripture and as such nothing he says can be true about God.

How has he recreated God in that article? You have redefined what John and Jesus said concerning being ONE and ONE GOD calling it some sort of heresy. Jesus never says anything that lends any credibility to such accusations based on SCRIPTURE alone not "mens imaginations" or "words".

He quotes more scripture then you have. In fact the whole ariticle in the end shows a careful investigation into scripture by comparison.

You havent given one scripture to to back up His denial of Jesus Christ.

Peace

Fireinfolding

[Splayd]

Jesus said

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The FIRST of ALL the COMMANDMENTS IS , (((( HEAR; O' ISRAEL ))) The Lord our God is ONE LORD

One is wrong?

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, they may BE ONE, as WE ARE.

One is wrong?

1Cr 8:6 But UNTO US there is ONE GOD, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and ONE LORD Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.

John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may BE ONE, even as WE ARE ONE:

John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they be made perfect IN ONE .

Wheres the problem??




I just wish those who judge and condemn others GIVE A SCRIIPTURE and would ANSWER to SCRIPTURE ALONE. Is that too much to ask?In the first verse Jesus quotes a fundamental of Judaism, something they repeat every day. It was true then and it's just as true today...

BUT if we examine the language, we find that the word used for "one" in that verse is "echad" which more specifically means "a compound unity". Jesus, the Father and the Holy Spirit comprise that compound unity. Were they all the same person, they'd hardly be compound. Likewise, were they altogether seperate, they'd hardly be united. Rather we serve a God who is indeed echad.

Through NT scripture that understanding is amplified that we can more specifically recognise the fullness of God: three persons - one God :)

[Fireinfolding]

In the first verse Jesus quotes a fundamental of Judaism, something they repeat every day. It was true then and it's just as true today...

BUT if we examine the language, we find that the word used for "one" in that verse is "echad" which more specifically means "a compound unity". Jesus, the Father and the Holy Spirit comprise that compound unity. Were they all the same person, they'd hardly be compound. Likewise, were they altogether seperate, they'd hardly be united. Rather we serve a God who is indeed echad.

Through NT scripture that understanding is amplified that we can more specifically recognise the fullness of God: three persons - one God :)

No one is doubting that God the Father and the Son are not unified they are ONE, and He prayed that WE would be ONE coming to the UNITY of THE FAITH.

Jesus said he would send them another comforter... yet he said ~I~ will COME TO YOU. I will not leave you comfortless ~I~ will COME TO YOU. He will testify of ~Me~ that was KEY in Jesus words that APPEAR contradictory but are not, Christ said John 8:18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and The Father that sent me bear witness of me. Believing the Fathers record is that he hath given us eternal life and this life is in His Son. 1John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record GOD gave of His Son. 2Cr 3:17 Now THE LORD is ~THAT~ Spirit: and where the Spirit of THE LORD is, there [is] Liberty. ~I~ will COME and manifest ~MYSELF~ to him. I am the ~Morning Star~ I shall GIVE him the ~Morning Star~... My reward is ~WITH ME~ My FATHER is ~with me~ I and my Father ARE ONE. ~WE~ will COME and SUP etc. etc.


"One" = heis {hice}

Ephes 4:6 ONE GOD and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

1Titus 2:5 For there is ONE GOD, and ONE mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1Cr 8:6 But to us there is but ONE GOD, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and ONE Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.

Romans 3:3 Seeing it is ONE GOD, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

John 10:30 I and My Father are ONE.

Mark 12:29 The Lord our God is ONE in greek is heis {hice}


Duet 6:4 The Lord our God is ONE in in hebrew 'echad {ekh-awd'} 1) one (number) a) one (number) b) each, every c) a certain d) an (indefinite article) e) only, once, once for all f) one...another, the one...the other, one after another, one by one g) first h) eleven (in combination), eleventh (ordinal) <--- Hows THAT factor in? This used in combination with `asar {aw-sawr'} Now run the tons of word "equivilents" in the hebrew concerning "echad"

Yet the "primitive" root word the "echad" is derived from is 'achad {aw-khad'} 1) (Hithpael) to go one way or another, to be sharp example fround in Ezek 21:16 The Hebrew lexicon adds... "to UNITE, to JOIN ONESELF TOGETHER to COLLECT.

Unity is shown here...

Ephes 4:13 Till WE ALL come to the UNITY of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Ephes 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the UNITY of THE Spirit

Ephes 4:4 There is ONE body, and ONE SPIRIT

Phil 1:7 ...that ye STAND FAST in ONE SPIRIT, with ONE MIND striving together for the faith of the gospel;

1Cr 12:13 and have been all made to drink INTO ONE SPIRIT.

1Cr 6:17 he that is joined unto the Lord is ONE SPIRIT.

John 10:30 I and my Father are ONE.

John 14:7 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.


John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself.

John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me.

He that hath the SON hath the Father and no one can even say Jesus is LORD but BY the Holy Spirit. Its how its worded not as men word it.

How is God three PERSONS? God cannot be THREE PERSONS Persons are THREE HUMANS BEINGS.

He is NOT A MAN that He should LIE.

THINK about this very carefully for just a second.

MAN and BEAST was created on the SIXTH day. Will one calculate or count THREE MEN (or a BEAST) "TOGETHER" into the EQUATION of God??

The NUMBER of A MAN THREEFOLD???

I only desire script as I would not deny script. But manmade words (added to scripture) being forced upon others I CANT BUY.

Peace

Fireinfolding

[Splayd]

How is God three PERSONS? God cannot be THREE PERSONS Persons are THREE HUMANS BEINGS.
:D No I don't believe that the Father and the Spirit are human beings... but therein lies the truth of the matter because Jesus DID come as a human, while the Father and the Holy Spirit are certainly not men :)

Peace

[angelmom01]

Excellent post, Fire!!

The number of A MAN threefold? That was GOOD!! :D :D

Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Is it the number of "a" man, "men", man(kind)? Aren't men BEASTS also?

Interesting "Tid bit" in case you never thought about it... all life on Earth is carbon-based, do you know what the atomic number is for carbon? :D :D

Ok, back ON TOPIC :o

Isn't Matt 28:19 the only place that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all mentioned together? We know what it is that distinguished the Father (Spirit) from the Son (flesh) but what is it that distinguished the Holy Spirit from the other two "persons" of the trinity?

angelmom

[Splayd]

Thanks for bringing up the issue of 666 again. I forgot to address it.

It may seem like a small distinction to some, but the number of the beast is NOT "six, six, six". It's "six hundred and sixty six". There's actually a world of difference between the two.

Peace

[Fireinfolding]

:D No I don't believe that the Father and the Spirit are human beings... but therein lies the truth of the matter because Jesus DID come as a human, while the Father and the Holy Spirit are certainly not men :)

Peace


Hi Splayd:D Therein lies the problem. Something that MENS words FAIL to explain appropriately.

Their words are not sufficient nor perfect. They often make matters worse. Theres some sort of allegiance to FORCE those words (imperfect as they are) UPON those who believe in Jesus Christ and confess Him as Lord. Not only have they ADDED to Gods words (ignoring His warning against such) but now they EXALT their WORDS over and ABOVE HIS and are use them to JUDGE and to CAST out the brethren.

To Jesus Christ belongs the PREEMINENCE not to THEM to do such things. Scripture validates those (who confess his name) who they cast out. It crept in unawares and has become very common place but scripture contradicts those that do this. Yet its they who have gone too far because they CONSENT NOT to the WHOLESOME WORDS of Christ. John validates those who stand wrongly condemned.

So not only do they "judge" and wrongly so (disobediently) but they "add" to His words (again disobediently). They proceed to "condemn" brethren as heretics (those who both believe and confess Him as Lord). These (bless their hearts) chose to obey the Lord, holding fast to HIS WORDS by which script says THEY ARE JUSTIFIED. They are obeying GOD rather then men even within our OWN RANKS. Many are getting unjustly put out over words God never uses in relation to Himself only what has been put into words by men (commonly accepted). This is why it bothers me.

Peace

Fireinfolding

[angelmom01]

Thanks for bringing up the issue of 666 again. I forgot to address it.

It may seem like a small distinction to some, but the number of the beast is NOT "six, six, six". It's "six hundred and sixty six". There's actually a world of difference between the two.

Peace
How so, what is the difference.

Strongs has this:

G5516
χξς
chi xi stigma
khee xee stig'-ma
The 22nd, 14th and an obsolete letter (G4742 as a cross) of the Greek alphabet (intermediate between the 5th and 6th), used as numbers; denoting respectively 600, 60 and 6; 666 as a numeral: - six hundred threescore and six.

If you write six hundred and sixty six "numerically" it ~is~ 666.

[Splayd]

I understand and generally agree with that point (post #15). I often make the point myself that it's not so much the words you use that matters, but what you mean by them.

To that extent, I have some issues with the "trinity". Nonetheless, I recognise the truth in the intent of the word's use. Furthermore - while I don't have an issue with someone using other words to express the same biblical truths, I do take issue with those who would express something that is false as if it were a scriptural truth. Suggesting that Jesus IS God the Father (completely and identically) isn't entirely true from a biblical perspective.

[angelmom01]

I understand and generally agree with that point. I often make the point myself that it's not so much the words you use that matters, but what you mean by them.

To that extent, I have some issues with the "trinity". Nonetheless, I recognise the truth in the intent of the word's use. Furthermore - while I don't have an issue with someone using other words to express the same biblical truths, I do take issue with those who would express something that is false as if it were a scriptural truth. Suggesting that Jesus IS God the Father (completely and identically) isn't entirely true from a biblical perspective.
:amen: :thumbsup:

[Splayd]

How so, what is the difference.

Strongs has this:

G5516
χξς
chi xi stigma
khee xee stig'-ma
The 22nd, 14th and an obsolete letter (G4742 as a cross) of the Greek alphabet (intermediate between the 5th and 6th), used as numbers; denoting respectively 600, 60 and 6; 666 as a numeral: - six hundred threescore and six.

If you write six hundred and sixty six "numerically" it ~is~ 666.
Yes I know. It certainly seems subtle and maybe even pedantic to us today because we are SO familiar with our numerical system that it seems absurd to even consider it any other way. Truth is - "666" is one specific number. It's only represented as three 6's in our numerical system. Look again at the original text. Is it the same digit repeated three times? Nope. Would it be the same digit repeated 3 times to the Romans that next interpreted it? Nope. Would it be the digit "6" repeated three times in any numerical system apart from our modern decimal system? Nope.

"six", "six", "six" might be the way we represent the number χξς... but it's not what it means. It means "six-hundred, sixty and six".

I hope that explains it and you can recognise the difference.

Peace

[angelmom01]

Yes I know. It certainly seems subtle and maybe even pedantic to us today because we are SO familiar with our numerical system that it seems absurd to even consider it any other way. Truth is - "666" is one specific number. It's only represented as three 6's in our numerical system. Look again at the original text. Is it the same digit repeated three times? Nope. Would it be the same digit repeated 3 times to the Romans that next interpreted it? Nope. Would it be the digit "6" repeated three times in any numerical system apart from our modern decimal system? Nope.

"six", "six", "six" might be the way we represent the number χξς... but it's not what it means. It means "six-hundred, sixty and six".

I hope that explains it and you can recognise the difference.

Peace
I do recognize the difference between the numerical value and the fact that it not one number repeated three times.... just not sure why it's so significant that you said it makes "a world of difference".

I would assume (because I don't know so that might be dangerous) that if it was written out "numerically" in any language that it would be the same?

angelmom

[Splayd]

I don't think it's necessarily dangerous as such :)
... BUT I do recognise the trend in Christian circles to make a great fuss about the number "6" in their interpretaion of this verse. Interpretations such as the concept that it's "the number of man - threefold" make no sense in other numerical systems and let's face it - it wasn't written in our numerical system.

If we'd gone with a binary numerical system it would've been written in our bibles as: 1010011010. Many of the current interpretations of what the number means would be null and void then. Meanwhile, if we'd stuck with the Roman numerals it would have been written like this: DCLXVI. Once again, it wouldn't make sense. The number "6" isn't even evident in any of these. Comparative thought would be looking for interpretations involving the digits 1 and 0 or the Roman digits for 500, 100, 50, 10, 5 and 1.

All of the "triple-six" interpretations only really make sense to modern cultures. I won't discount the possibility that it was written for us specifically, but recognising it as the specific number as written (beit interpreted as χξς or 666 or DCLXVI or 1010011010) compared to recognising it specifically within our modern representation of that number applies across all cultures throughout all time.

Peace

[angelmom01]

I don't think it's necessarily dangerous as such :)
... BUT I do recognise the trend in Christian circles to make a great fuss about the number "6" in their interpretaion of this verse. Interpretations such as the concept that it's "the number of man - threefold" make no sense in other numerical systems and let's face it - it wasn't written in our numerical system.

If we'd gone with a binary numerical system it would've been written in our bibles as: 1010011010. Many of the current interpretations of what the number means would be null and void then. Meanwhile, if we'd stuck with the Roman numerals it would have been written like this: DCLXVI. Once again, it wouldn't make sense. The number "6" isn't even evident in any of these. Comparative thought would be looking for interpretations involving the digits 1 and 0 or the Roman digits for 500, 100, 50, 10, 5 and 1.

All of the "triple-six" interpretations only really make sense to modern cultures. I won't discount the possibility that it was written for us specifically, but recognising it as the specific number as written (beit interpreted as χξς or 666 or DCLXVI or 1010011010) compared to recognising it specifically within our modern representation of that number applies across all cultures throughout all time.

Peace
Point taken! ;)

You're just trying to ruin the "punchline" of my joke aren't you? :D

I don't go for all those "anti-Christ" theories where people are always trying to figure out which "man's" number adds up to 666, though they can be quite entertaining.

angelmom

[Fireinfolding]

Excellent post, Fire!!

The number of A MAN threefold? That was GOOD!! :D

Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Is it the number of "a" man, "men", man(kind)? Aren't men BEASTS also?

Interesting "Tid bit" in case you never thought about it... all life on Earth is carbon-based, do you know what the atomic number is for carbon? :D

Ok, back ON TOPIC :o

Isn't Matt 28:19 the only place that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all mentioned together? We know what it is that distinguished the Father (Spirit) from the Son (flesh) but what is it that distinguished the Holy Spirit from the other two "persons" of the trinity?

angelmom


I suppose its off topic a tad but I brought it up ^_^ Well heres what, to me it goes a bit deeper then that in regards to the number.

Thats what I see that God manifests men that they can see they are like the beasts, both made on the sixth day. Yet this number repeats itself and is place in the context of wisdom that which can contrast between two used who are symbolic of wisdom in scripture. One Solomon and the other Christ. One from a perspective of UNDER the Sun and the other that which is from ABOVE. BUY the TRUTH and do not SELL IT. The words dance around the same things. They change the truth of God for A LIE worshipping and CREATURE more then the Creator. The Wisdom of Solomon (UNDER the Sun) verses ONE GREATER then Solomon is here CHRIST the Wisdom of God (the Wisdom which is from ABOVE)

The SON of God IS COME to GIVE understanding. In Rev it speaks of him who "HATH understanding"... Or HERE is "wisdom" OR "the Mind of Wisdom"....which would be "the Mind of the Lord" the COUNT and the WEIGHT are equal in regards to GOLD, MAN, and BEAST

Look here

1King 10:14 Now the weight of GOLD that "CAME TO" Solomon in ONE YEAR was six hundred threescore and six talents of gold,

Rev 13:18 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&passage=Rev+13:18&version=KJV) Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the BEAST: for it is the number of a MAN; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Not only so but heres ANOTHER sum that came to Solomon in gold (staying consitent with the gold) which number is very significant to a MAN as well here...

2Cr 9:9 And she gave the king an hundred and twenty talents of gold

It began here...

Gen 6:3 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&passage=Gen+6:3&version=KJV) My spirit shall not always strive with MAN, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years .

Those years are symbolically summed up in Moses (the law) here...

Duet 34:7 And MOSES was an hundred and twenty years when he died (We know Christ is the END of the law so hes significant to the picture). To hold the truth in unrighteousness has me thinking, of lying against the truth in our hearts as through the law comes the "knowledge of sin" he that says he hath not sin we then make God a liar and the truth we are to buy of Him (true gold refined by the fire) is not in us.


It plays into much not written down here much is signified. Just as The Queen of Sheba (whose name means "Seven") finds representation in revelation as does Mary magdeline OUT OF WHOM he cast out Seven devils, if he casts OUT devils by the finger of God the Kingdom of God has come upon you (the accuser cast down is also connected to Moses who as the Lord says is the ONE who accuseth you. This pertains to the good conscience not to be cast off as some hath made their faith shiwrecked in doing. These are beautiful symbols everywhere.

But in short since I touched on it I'm seeing this as MANS truth, his GOLD. Brute BEASTS as every man is BRUTISH in his KNOWLEDGE confounded by the MOLTEN image. The FALSE prophet and all this (to me and much more) is wrapped up in a MANMADE religious system which consent not to His wholesome words. ADDING to Gods words, plagues etc.

Peace

Fireinfolding

[angelmom01]

Good post fire!

I see a relationship between the BEAST and the FALSE PROPHET, seeing that they both reside "in men". The BEAST rises up out of the "sea" and the "earth". Lots of connections there to "that man of sin" and "the son of perdition" as well. But I guess that's really another topic still and not relevant to the OP. :o

angelmom

[Fireinfolding]

Interesting "Tid bit" in case you never thought about it... all life on Earth is carbon-based, do you know what the atomic number is for carbon? :D :D

ROFL!! ^_^ Cute weird huh?

Atomic Number: 6
Number of Protons/Electrons: 6
Number of Neutrons: 6

Want to try to SQUEEZE that in? ^_^ (Im kidding)

By the way I agree with Splayd (if your hearing me splayd) I figured why answer twice since yall are holding a conversation why Im posting lol I thought I would not post again to the same thing. I wasnt really deriving to it in that simplistic form promise.

Peace to you both

Fireinfolding

[Fireinfolding]

I understand and generally agree with that point (post #15). I often make the point myself that it's not so much the words you use that matters, but what you mean by them.

To that extent, I have some issues with the "trinity". Nonetheless, I recognise the truth in the intent of the word's use. Furthermore - while I don't have an issue with someone using other words to express the same biblical truths, I do take issue with those who would express something that is false as if it were a scriptural truth. Suggesting that Jesus IS God the Father (completely and identically) isn't entirely true from a biblical perspective.

I AGREE (especially HOW you worded that) Jesus said I and the Father are ONE . If we have seen Him we have seen the Father. He is the image of the invisible God even the firstborn of every creature. Jesus said the Father is GREATER then I and GREATER then ALL. John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and My Father will love him, and WE will come unto him, and make OUR abode with him.



The reason Im a bit upset about it is because brothers and sisters are being slandered simply because they feel its wrong to add to Gods words in relation to Himself.

Now do I care if anyone uses the word? Not at all, I CAN ALLOW ROOM for freedom regarding others to do this. I dont want it to become a "point of contention" or grounds of banishment for "another". There are some "innocent others" on the otherside of the issue who are gracious enough to allow the same (for them I am thankful).

But SOME are just awful about it slandering their brethren and accusing them and casting them out etc. THATS WRONG. Specially if what they DO unto the LEAST OF THESE MY BRETHREN (who both believe and confess Him as Lord)

THEY are most likely thinking they are casting out who they regard as devils in His name but are doing it to HIS OWN.

I take issue when someone else is being hurt, specially brothers and sisters and shutting up because I fear men is being a coward and betraying both my conscience and his children. It would be "unjust" in having no regard for my fellow brethren or God in saying nothing (showing no concern whatsoever).

I mean afterall we would wrest and KILL each other over a WORD but we could TRY to lay down our lives for one another and defend the faith in a GOOD WAY for ONCE. Sounds reasonable to me, most are scared to do it (as I see it). Sounds more like that guy John wrote about who loved "preeminence" (which should be Jesus Christs place).

He was casting out of the church and did not receive the brethren, not content with that but prating maliciously against them. When others WOULD receive them (as John acknowledged their right doing) this guy stood in the way forbiding them who would even. Seems we have MORE of THESE then of the others (at least to me it seems so). After witnessing (what I would call) such nasty "inquisitions" shows theres something obviously wrong with this picture. No one seems bothered by it, like its "the norm" or something? Thats sorta eerie.

Unless they are just not saying so? Just chalk it up to "religion" again I suppose?:sigh:

Peace

Fireinfolding

[Lpe04]

Thank you so much for this Fireinfolding!!!! God bless you mightily in the wonderful name of Jesus Christ!

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

I AGREE (especially HOW you worded that) Jesus said I and the Father are ONE . If we have seen Him we have seen the Father. He is the image of the invisible God even the firstborn of every creature. Jesus said the Father is GREATER then I and GREATER then ALL. John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and My Father will love him, and WE will come unto him, and make OUR abode with him.
The Father and Son being separate is what the writer that is linked in the OP espouses. This is false doctrine. The reason I say he cannot speak truth is due to the fact that when he reference Christ he is not referencing the separate and distinct Son of God but rather a different entity that is entirely not scriptural.

The reason Im a bit upset about it is because brothers and sisters are being slandered simply because they feel its wrong to add to Gods words in relation to Himself.
That is not why I have posted against the words of this person. That is a misrepresentation of the arguments presented. The person in question does not refuse to add to God's words he denies them. The Word was WITH God as well as the Word was God. The Word (Christ) and God are separate and distinct. To say otherwise is to teach a different Christ and a departure from the truth.

Now do I care if anyone uses the word? Not at all, I CAN ALLOW ROOM for freedom regarding others to do this. I dont want it to become a "point of contention" or grounds of banishment for "another". There are some "innocent others" on the otherside of the issue who are gracious enough to allow the same (for them I am thankful).
There is no room for the denial of the Trinity. There is no room for the denial of the separation of Christ and the Father. Anyone claiming they are not separate but rather modes in which God has revealed himself is participating in the ancient heresy of modalism, a doctrine that has been condemned from the very foundations of the church. This doctrine is false and should be spoken against whenever and wherever it rears its ugly head.

But SOME are just awful about it slandering their brethren and accusing them and casting them out etc. THATS WRONG. Specially if what they DO unto the LEAST OF THESE MY BRETHREN (who both believe and confess Him as Lord)
The man who wrote the articles in question does not worship the same Christ as I worship. He worships a God that is not described in scripture and he denies basic truths about the God of the Bible. If you want to quote scripture should we get into being ready in season and out of season to...reprove and correct? Or perhaps rightly dividing the word of truth? This is an issue of salvation and this man is espousing a false Christ. Every means should be used to disprove the lies he spreads about our Lord and Saviour.

THEY are most likely thinking they are casting out who they regard as devils in His name but are doing it to HIS OWN.
When a doctrine as damaging as modalism is espoused then I will always speak against it. I will speak against it if it is the last breath in my body. I will never accept anything less than the truth about Christ and when someone teaches a different God then we should speak against it.

I take issue when someone else is being hurt, specially brothers and sisters and shutting up because I fear men is being a coward and betraying both my conscience and his children. It would be "unjust" in having no regard for my fellow brethren or God in saying nothing (showing no concern whatsoever).
Unless a person acknowledges Christ then they are not my brother or sister in Christ. If they deny that Christ is separate from the Father then they are espousing false doctrine and I will never stand silent and allow false doctrine to be unanswered.

I mean afterall we would wrest and KILL each other over a WORD but we could TRY to lay down our lives for one another and defend the faith in a GOOD WAY for ONCE. Sounds reasonable to me, most are scared to do it (as I see it). Sounds more like that guy John wrote about who loved "preeminence" (which should be Jesus Christs place).
This is not about a word. This is about a basic truth of Christianity. The very creed you agree with upon signing up for this site in order to post in the Christian section spells out this truth. It was written in part to combat the specific heresy that is being espoused still today by this person and others. It is spelled in scripture and to deny it is to deny Christ Himself.

[JDIBe]

ROFL!! ^_^ Cute weird huh?

Atomic Number: 6
Number of Protons/Electrons: 6
Number of Neutrons: 6

Want to try to SQUEEZE that in? ^_^ (Im kidding)

By the way I agree with Splayd (if your hearing me splayd) I figured why answer twice since yall are holding a conversation why Im posting lol I thought I would not post again to the same thing. I wasnt really deriving to it in that simplistic form promise.

Peace to you both

Fireinfolding
666 Number of the beast
668 Neighbor of the beast
660 Approximate number of the beast
DCLXVI Roman numeral of the beast
666.0000 Number of the high-precision beast
0.666 Number of the millibeast
666i Imaginary number of the beast
1010011010 Binary number of the beast
29A Hexidecimal number of the beast
-666 Negative number of the beast
00666 Zip code of the beast
$665.95 Retail price of the beast
$699.25 Price of the beast plus 5% state sales tax
$769.95 Price of the beast with all accessories and replacements
$656.66 Wal-Mart price of the beast
$646.66 Next week's Wal-Mart price of the beast
$333.88 After-Christmas sale price of the beast
Phillips 666 Gasoline of the beast
Route 666 Way of the beast
666 F Oven temperature for cooking roast beast
666k Retirement plan of the beast
666 mg Recommended minimum daily requirement of the beast
999 Australian number of the beast
IAM 666 License plate number of the beast
Formula 666 All-purpose cleaner of the beast
969 Dyslexic number of the beast
WD-666 Spray lubricant of the beast
66.6 MHz FM radio station of the beast
666 KHz AM radio station of the beast
Chanel No. 666 The beast's favorite perfume
666% What the beast gives in his game

[Fireinfolding]

The Father and Son being separate is what the writer that is linked in the OP espouses. This is false doctrine. The reason I say he cannot speak truth is due to the fact that when he reference Christ he is not referencing the separate and distinct Son of God but rather a different entity that is entirely not scriptural.

Thats double speak for which I can find no biblical validation for. Not only that you are answering a post to Splade which was speaking "in general" about a very common mentality. That post is not directed to you.

You have ignored the post directed to you.

I will not take how you perceive something and call it something I see no scriptural basis for. Any man can speak anything and even some truths therein. Satan can quote scripture. He simply cannot bear fruit.

Its walking in the truth such ones cannot do. Because walking in the truth requires walking in obedience to his comandments. Walking in love is what "no murderer" (one that HATETH his brother) or "liar" (one who PROFESSES they "love God" but LOVETH NOT their brethren) can do.

Walking verses talking, its those who profess (lip service) that they know God but its by their DEEDS (not just their lips) they deny him.

What do these things have to do with the pure and undefiled religion God accepts?

Then you wrote this...
That is not why I have posted against the words of this person. That is a misrepresentation of the arguments presented. The person in question does not refuse to add to God's words he denies them. The Word was WITH God as well as the Word was God. The Word (Christ) and God are separate and distinct. To say otherwise is to teach a different Christ and a departure from the truth.

Jesus said I and the Father are ONE, please show me scripture where Jesus says the Father is separate from Him if as the Father has life in himself he also giveth the Son to have life in himself. In Him we live move and have OUR VERY BEING.

The FULNESS of the Godhead BODILY was in Jesus Christ to say he was "separate" from the Father is (to some) to deny the WORKS as He and the Father are one and it is the Father who doeth the works.

Adding to Gods words (might seem acceptable) even make things (to these) crystal clear on their end. In reality however, there are other ways (that in so doing) seem to deny Him (in other ways) to "others". His words speak of the relationship of the Father and the Son perfectly.

Secondly you are harping on this particular man (of whom I have no interest). One who put together the "proofs" and "credible witnesses" contained therein. You have said nothing in regards to the other witnesses.

Those witnesses are regarded as the Church Fathers. These need to be dealt with as well, so I ask are they lying too??

These include...

Clement of Alexandria
Eusebius of Caesurae known as Eusebius Pamphili
Origen
Justin Martyr
Macedonius
Eunomius
Aphraates


The words "separate and distinct" are never used by Christ in relationship to his Father, He says I and the Father are one, though they are a WE.

There is no room for the denial of the Trinity.

I know no christian if straightly asked who would not ackknowledge the Son (by whom John said they had the Father) . Neither would they deny that they could not even SAY He is the Lord EXCEPT by the Holy Spirit. Who do you know that would deny this absolute truth?

If anyones pushing "words" which are not in scripture and are going TOO FAR and not consenting to WHOLESOME WORDS its not THESE.

SOME do object to MANMADE WORDS. In my personal opinion (derived from a multitude of scripts I will post if you'd like) they have justification to object to adding to His words (as God Himself warns against).

I dont think the WORD is nessesary when you can confess whats plainly written in scripture as is. Its become a ridiculous point of contention (strifes of words) and spiritual bloodshed (as mens words lie in wait for blood).

There is no room for the denial of the separation of Christ and the Father.

This is exactly what I mean by pure confusion and contradiction.

YOU just said in the first quote
The Father and Son being separate is what the writer that is linked in the OP espouses. This is false doctrine.

Can you make up your mind here?

Anyone claiming they are not separate but rather modes in which God has revealed himself is participating in the ancient heresy of modalism, a doctrine that has been condemned from the very foundations of the church. This doctrine is false and should be spoken against whenever and wherever it rears its ugly head.

Please provide scripture for correction and reproof as that is what its there for.

Whether one says "persons" meaning to me God is three men (which to me God rebukes because HE SAYS HE IS NOT a MAN that he should LIE). This would certainly conflict with the nature of the Holy Spirit who is THE TRUTH and NO LIE.

So others can indeed be offended by mens words which make desparate attempts in their desire for intellectual greatness to explain what they inevitably say (in the end) is a "mystery".

So whats wrong with sticking with scripture? If we did so it would alleviate the constant strife and contention over words. But what happens is we defend the manmade words condemning others who simply are not "getting" what they fail to explain adequately.

So moduism is supposedly "three modes" ( mens words AGAIN rising up against others MENS words). Im nuetral between MENS words as I think they are imperfect (in and of themselves). To me, "Isms" ( are mans vain attempts to explain God in their own words).

I see believers in Jesus Christ being FORCED to accept which ISM they will give allegiance to. Though its as ALL ISMS confess "A mystery" and truly unexplainable. Yet each ISM as guilty as the rest JUDGE and CONDEMN brethren for not swearing allegiance to it.

Take ~OUR WORDS~ FOR IT is what it becomes in the final estimation. Most of the innocent ones who have been drawn to Christ simply turn to the one which makes the MOST SENSE. All of them fall short on their explanations. They turn to whichever one makes most sense out of a fear of MEN (who through their double speak) confuse the younger (by their words) into thinking they are denying their Lord. Thus it becomes their standard to measure judgment and condemnation to others. The sins of the Fathers begin to repeat and become the sins of the children through traditions and teachings of men.

Regarding Christ revealing... Do you mean the REVELATION of Jesus Christ spoken of in many ways throughout scripture?

Is that now become an "evil thing"?

No one comes to the Father but by Christ. Christ says no man knoweth the Father but the Son and that HE reveals the Father to whom He will. Is that evil?
Its in and through and by Christ we can even have eternal life (which by Christ's definition IS ~to KNOW THEE~) If that is true as I believe Christs words to be true then HE REVEALS the FATHER. Its by Him that we might lay hold of eternal life (to know God) and comprehend with all the saints the "love of God" in Christ Jesus (to which we are called). Its by Him we are made HIERS of eternal life, as God has spoken to us in His Son. Now If you see that as heresy I'm honestly speechless. As Christ said he that loveth him will obey his commands and that HE would manifest himself to that one. Its Christ who said He revealeth the Father. Its Christ to Philip who said if you seen me you seen the Father. Its Paul who spoke of the knowledge of the God in the face of Jesus Christ. The whole thing is about the revelation (revealing) of Christ and Paul who spoke of Christ in us our hope of Glory and to lay hold of eternal life (to KNOW GOD) in His Son Jesus Christ (which is the RECORD that if you do not believe you have made GOD a LIAR). There are so many scriptures to this spoken in so many ways it becomes a post in itself to contain them all. If this is seen as evil I truly have no words for anyone of this particular mentality.

I will stick with what the apostle John said, he says he that acknowledges THE SON ~ HATH ~ THE FATHER thats HOW John worded it. Elsewhere he says, No one can SAY Jesus is THE LORD except by the Holy Spirit. Those are WHOLESOME WORDS by which we are JUSTIFIED and to which I CONSENT.

Where are the words divided used in relation to Christ and the Father? Where are the words "separate" used by Jesus Christ in relation to Himself and the Father? Fogive my love for scriptures but when we are judged we are to let everyman be a liar and God be true being justified by HIS SAYINGS.

The man who wrote the articles in question does not worship the same Christ as I worship. He worships a God that is not described in scripture and he denies basic truths about the God of the Bible. If you want to quote scripture should we get into being ready in season and out of season to...reprove and correct? Or perhaps rightly dividing the word of truth? This is an issue of salvation and this man is espousing a false Christ. Every means should be used to disprove the lies he spreads about our Lord and Saviour.

Do you know whether he helps the widow, or careth for orphans? Have you been in His life long enough to know He walks in love. Can you judge this mans heart over a word? Will judging others be reduced to some mysterious mathematical figure no one can explain which has nothing to do with the faith that works by love? What has this to do with the pure religion Gods accepts? What has this to do with ones pure devotion to Jesus Christ and walking in obedience to His commandments? What excuse will we make to justify our own reasons to judge and condemn others for things he does not judge or condemn them for?

Im not seeing it. I blow off words anyway as worshipping God in Spirit and in truth is WALKING IN IT (in DEED and in TRUTH) not simply TALKING ABOUT the truth.

When a doctrine as damaging as modalism is espoused then I will always speak against it. I will speak against it if it is the last breath in my body. I will never accept anything less than the truth about Christ and when someone teaches a different God then we should speak against it.

What are these terrible evils this "modulism" thing does as I havent a CLUE to these strange manmade words. Truth is Jesus Christ

Unless a person acknowledges Christ then they are not my brother or sister in Christ. If they deny that Christ is separate from the Father then they are espousing false doctrine and I will never stand silent and allow false doctrine to be unanswered.

He acknowledges Jesus Christ, the article is in DEFENSE of our Lords Name not the denial of Him. You fail to show me scripture which states any words Jesus uses in truth that he is separate from the Father, He says He and the Father are one. Im not seeing great evil in this sorry. If mens concepts regarding the "mathematics" of God is become such a source of spiritual bloodshed, Why not simply HEAR what Jesus says, why not HEAR that HE and the Father are ONE? Why not hear the first and foremost commandment (we neglect to keep in mind) that the Lord our God is ONE LORD. Whats so utterly difficult about that? Its PAUL who said nothing but unto US there is ONE GOD and ONE LORD, can we just stay there? The simplicity in Christ and the pureness of devotion and the Faith that works by love is completely distorted beyond reccognition over the strifes born over a WORD and none can see the FRUIT of these things?

This is not about a word.

This has everything to do with a WORD. There is not ONE SCRIPTURE I will ever deny as HIS WORDS are TRUTH by which we are TO CONSENT (or be disobedient and NOT CONSENT to His wholesome words). Neither will I ADD to HIS WORDS by which we are JUSTIFIED. We are to obey GOD rather then MEN in this.

This is about a basic truth of Christianity.

Jesus Christ is THE Truth of Christ -tianity


The very creed you agree with upon signing up for this site in order to post in the Christian section spells out this truth.

Yes so? Its okay for others to show where a word was adding into scriptures by translators, or what verses did not exist in earlier manuscripts but this one becomes untouchable?
Neither have I denied Jesus Christ THE LORD by whom I have the Father. I (by biblical definition) cannot even say He is so except by the Holy Spirit.

It was written in part to combat the specific heresy that is being espoused still today by this person and others. It is spelled in scripture

Name the specific heresy by defining the scriptural definition of heresy, and the great evil (according to scripture) concerning this heresy. Then please spell-it-out by using scripture (given for our correction and reproof).

and to deny it is to deny Christ Himself.

Scripture please, I see DEEDS denying Him and not confessing Him before men or not acknowledging the Son as denying Him. You need specifics bringing such charges against others and feeling no RESTRAINT in doing that. Its so typical now and these things dance completely around words and doctrines of men.

There is not one "word" in scripture to justify what one MUST NEED GO both beyond it in order to justify "ourselves" (in the condemning of others) forsaking the command of Christ to the contrary (in relation to these things).

Personally, Im not seeing it, and we WILL bear our own judgments and be measured to accordingly as God is true we most certainly will.

Peace

Fireinfolding

[Fireinfolding]

666 Number of the beast
668 Neighbor of the beast
660 Approximate number of the beast
DCLXVI Roman numeral of the beast
666.0000 Number of the high-precision beast
0.666 Number of the millibeast
666i Imaginary number of the beast
1010011010 Binary number of the beast
29A Hexidecimal number of the beast
-666 Negative number of the beast
00666 Zip code of the beast
$665.95 Retail price of the beast
$699.25 Price of the beast plus 5% state sales tax
$769.95 Price of the beast with all accessories and replacements
$656.66 Wal-Mart price of the beast
$646.66 Next week's Wal-Mart price of the beast
$333.88 After-Christmas sale price of the beast
Phillips 666 Gasoline of the beast
Route 666 Way of the beast
666 F Oven temperature for cooking roast beast
666k Retirement plan of the beast
666 mg Recommended minimum daily requirement of the beast
999 Australian number of the beast
IAM 666 License plate number of the beast
Formula 666 All-purpose cleaner of the beast
969 Dyslexic number of the beast
WD-666 Spray lubricant of the beast
66.6 MHz FM radio station of the beast
666 KHz AM radio station of the beast
Chanel No. 666 The beast's favorite perfume
666% What the beast gives in his game

Yeah if you go outside scripture like most men you get weird stuff like this, its balony as the numbers are in scripture in accordance with spiritual truths.

Two minds, Carnal and Spiritual. Image is as beholding ones natural face in a MIRROR. Being deceived is as deceiving oneself. Hearing Christs words but not obeying Him. Overcoming ones own natural face is more like the down to earth truth, it certainly wont make holywood.

Offering The "Righthand" (agreement) of fellowship is by the grace of God. Buying and selling is in relation to "the truth". Buy the truth and sell it not. Buying goods are shown in relation to the Rich man (spiritually speaking) who increased in goods, Paul borrows "wretched" to himself in regards to what things were "gained to him" (spiritually speaking). Its not about the sci-fi stories I heard expressed.

Though we all believe what we will believe, only God gives understanding and its also God who sends the powerful delusion that they believe a lie who receive not a love for the truth. No use even going there, as He keeps watch over knowledge.

Thats my thoughts about it in it in a nutshell

Peace

Fireinfolding

[Fireinfolding]

Thank you so much for this Fireinfolding!!!! God bless you mightily in the wonderful name of Jesus Christ!

Hey! God richly bless you in our most precious Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!!

To HIM who purchased us with His own blood and TO HIM belongeth "the preeminence" in the churches:clap:

That we may be one. Known and read of all men having love for one another:thumbsup:

Peace

Fireinfolding

[hopperace]

This is just a gentle reminder for now and is not intended to intimidate or disrupt fellowship among adherents to the Restoration Movement, nor interrupt debate between members of the Restoration Movement. This thread continues to be under review, of valuable insight, and I hope respect and good fellowship can be maintained.
I would, in the meantime, remind all to be aware of the Sticky Notes qualifying this forum:
All Read Before Posting Here (http://www.christianforums.com/t2979790-all-read-before-posting-here-5-25-06.html)
What Is The Restoration Movement (http://www.christianforums.com/t2931162-what-is-the-restoration-movement.html)
And I would remind all that even though this is a No Creed But Christ forum, participation in it is still also qualified by adherence to the Nicene Creed (http://www.christianforums.com/faq.php?faq=rules#faq_rule_1), not that it has yet been determined that any of these bounds have been crossed.

Thank you for some delightful reading; even if caution may be warranted.

- kib