2 Chronicles 7: 14-16

[DiscipleOfIAm]

While studying the OT last night, I came across this section in 2 Chronicles. Is it possible that this can be misinterpreted as meaning that the Jewish people can be saved without Christ? If their sin is forgiven, then is that not the same?

14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. 15 Now mine eyes shall be open, and mine ears attent unto the prayer that is made in this place. 16 For now have I chosen and sanctified this house, that my name may be there for ever: and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually. 2Chron 7:14-16

Any thoughts? I've been discussing some issues with a Jewish man via an online forum. This came up.

God Bless!

[ncsugrad]

This was written before Christ walked this earth. That's basically what the Jews needed to do at that time to be in favor with God. After the crucifixion of Jesus, all bets are off on salvation by these means. Now you MUST accept Christ as the Savior. Hence John 14:6.

[DiscipleOfIAm]

However, their argument, not mine, is that God states "forever". Not until Messiah comes and changes it all.

The OP was asking if this verse is misinterpreted, which it obviously is.

[arunma]

This was written before Christ walked this earth. That's basically what the Jews needed to do at that time to be in favor with God. After the crucifixion of Jesus, all bets are off on salvation by these means. Now you MUST accept Christ as the Savior. Hence John 14:6.

With the greatest respect, I would like to humbly disagree with this assessment. The Bible shows us that Jesus Christ was present with man since the beginning of creation. Humans have always had access to God the Son, and thus salvation has never been by any means except faith in Jesus Christ. Consider this: the Gospel is meant to be a good news. If Christ came to add an additional requirement to salvation (faith in himself), then this would not be good news at all. While the New Covenant has been fully revealed with the advent of Christ, salvation has never been possible without faith in him.


Now with regard to the Scripture in question, it's important to ask whether the Chronicler is teaching an absolute doctrinal statement, or not. As it says about the Law,Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins. (Hebrews 9:22)

So here we are told that forgiveness was by the shedding of blood rather than prayer. The point here is not that the Bible contradicts itself. Rather the point is that it is easy to take a Scripture out of context, and form an incorrect doctrine on that basis. Here is an example from the New Testament:If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:9)
Much like the text from 2 Chronicles, one might asssume here that the forgiveness of sin, and indeed justification, requires only prayer and forgiveness of sin. Therefore I propose an alternate interpretation. We can note that the forgiveness of sin is directly tied to the healing of Israel's land. It's important to remember that in the Old Testament, theological terms like repentence, forgiveness, salvation, etc., are often tied directly to economic and military victories. Only later did these terms come to take on an added spiritual significance. If one reads the list of blessings and curses in the book of Deuteronomy, one will find that obeying the Law causes material blessing, while disobedience brings physical calamity. No mention of salvation is made, and this is why the Law cannot save. In this text, the forgiveness of sin involves national repentence from idolatry and injustice, which will result in the physical blessing of good farming conditions. Seeing as how elsewhere God requires the sacrifice of animals, it clearly would not be appropriate to say that God requires only prayer and personal repentence for salvation (these are necessary but not sufficient conditions for salvation). Unfortunately, this is precisely the stance that modern Judaism has taken.


There are two responses that I would give to your Jewish friend. In the text, God uses the word "forever" only in his promise that the Temple will always stand. If we take this verse literally, then where is the Temple right now? We Christians know that God's promise applies to a heavenly Jerusalem, which Christ has bought at the price of his own blood. But Jews take the Bible literally when it is not meant to be taken literally, and here this clearly makes God out to be incorrect. The second response I would give to your friend is to ask how he deals with this commandment:"Cursed be anyone who does not confirm the words of this law by doing them." And all the people shall say, "Amen." (Deuteronomy 27:26)
The Law requires a good deal more than prayer and repentence. Why would the Chronicler make a statement that contradicts the Law of Moses? It seems that the Jewish interpretation of the text doesn't work. In fact the Apostle Paul specifically quoted this same Scripture to show that the Law is not of faith. This is why salvation is by faith, and apart from works of the Law.

[DiscipleOfIAm]

Thank you! Exactly why I brought this up. It becomes easy to take Scripture out of context, which in this case is what my Jewish friend is doing.

[jasper123]

It seems me that verse is alluding to the future. Alot
of the old testament is revealed in the new.

For example you said alot of people say its about Jews
being saved without Christ. We we know this is wrong.

Look at isiah he said though the children of Isreal
be as the sand of the sea, a remnant will return.
I hear it over and over again that it mean The Jews
will return to a chuck of land in the mediterian.
Paul quotes this verse and says, though the children
of Isreal be as the sand of the sea a remnant will
be saved.

Ron

[arunma]

For example you said alot of people say its about Jews
being saved without Christ. We we know this is wrong.

I'm glad there's a Catholic around, because it gives me a chance to ask a question on this matter. I've always understood that the Catholic Church teaches that non-Christians (especially Jews) can be saved apart from faith in Jesus Christ. I'm referring specifically to the pieces of text around paragraph 840 in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Could you comment on this? Thanks.

[IisJustMe]

Christ was, is, and shall be the only Name by which one may be saved. That was the case from the very beginning. In Genesis 3:15, God reveals His plan of salvation.

"And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her seed;
He shall bruise you on the head,
And you shall bruise him on the heel."

God revealed Christ in this verse, and from this point forward, the plan of salvation was by faith, even when the patriarchs of Israel did not know specifically in Whom that faith was to be placed. They knew God was sending Messiah (The Anointed One) and that was good enough for them. Abram (later Abraham) believed God and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. Moses knew of Messiah. David was promised that his throne would be occupied by Him. There is no other name that saves, even if that name is not known. The patriarchs of Israel believed God had a plan, and that was enough for them. And by faith, they were saved, through grace, and that not of themselves, it was a gift of God, that none should boast. Yes, that's Ephesian 2:8, 9, a NT passage, but true for OT believers as well. There never was "another plan" -- it is Christ, and Christ alone. The OT points to Christ. The NT reveals Him.

[Lisa0315]

While studying the OT last night, I came across this section in 2 Chronicles. Is it possible that this can be misinterpreted as meaning that the Jewish people can be saved without Christ? If their sin is forgiven, then is that not the same?

14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. 15 Now mine eyes shall be open, and mine ears attent unto the prayer that is made in this place. 16 For now have I chosen and sanctified this house, that my name may be there for ever: and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually. 2Chron 7:14-16

Any thoughts? I've been discussing some issues with a Jewish man via an online forum. This came up.

God Bless!

I have always believed that the Jews were special cases. Not that all will be saved or any universal nonsense, but God will judge. Remember that God purposefully blinded the Jews to their Messiah so that we Gentiles could be grafted in.

Lisa

[IisJustMe]

Remember that God purposefully blinded the Jews to their Messiah so that we Gentiles could be grafted in. ... He is not done with them, and their salvation still comes through Christ. Their promises are different than ours. The Abrahamic Covenant (The Land, The Seed, The Blessing) is still in effect, and will be realized by Israel after the Tribulation. As I said earlier in this thread, salvation is through Christ alone, for all men. Israel is no different. But the promises made to them are different than those made to the Church (Body of Christ).

[Lisa0315]

... He is not done with them, and their salvation still comes through Christ. Their promises are different than ours. The Abrahamic Covenant (The Land, The Seed, The Blessing) is still in effect, and will be realized by Israel after the Tribulation. As I said earlier in this thread, salvation is through Christ alone, for all men. Israel is no different. But the promises made to them are different than those made to the Church (Body of Christ).

Yes, yes, and yes. Much better said than me. There will be a national conversion. THAT was what I was trying to get to. In the meantime, Jews will be judged according to the law, yes?

Lisa

[IisJustMe]

In the meantime, Jews will be judged according to the law, yes?As Jesus is the only Name by which one may be saved, the Jews are judged on their faith -- or lack thereof -- in Christ, just as the rest of us are. It is not as though they have not had the truth. They were the bearers of truth until Christ's earthly ministry, His rejection by Israel, and their mantle of evangelism taken from them and laid upon the Church. They must proclaim Christ, or perish. Only those who have never heard the gospel, those Paul writes of in Romans 2:14-16, those who instinctively do the things of the Law -- and let's not forget, the things of the Law boil down not to works, but faith alone -- will be judged separately. All others have heard and are without excuse.

[arunma]

Yes, yes, and yes. Much better said than me. There will be a national conversion. THAT was what I was trying to get to. In the meantime, Jews will be judged according to the law, yes?

Lisa

I think this largely depends on what one means by judgment. Technically Jews are judged by the Law, as is everyone else. As it says, "the letter [of the Law] kills" (2 Corinthians 3:6). Judgment according to the Law always results in condemnation, since only one human being (namely Jesus) has ever kept the Law perfectly.

Whatever our various theological positions on the issue (dispensationalism, convenant theology, etc.) there is one important point to stress. In specific, no Jew can be saved by being Jewish. Any Jew who believes in Jesus Christ will be saved, and any Jew who does not believe in Jesus will be condemned to hell. This is my understanding of the Bible, anyway.

[DiscipleOfIAm]

What about Romans 11:26? All means all and that's all all means.

Does it mean in the Tribulation, in the future, now, ????

[JPPT1974]

We can't go to heaven unless we
Have a saving faith in Jesus Christ as
Our Savior & Lord and admit that we are
Sinners and repent of our sins.