Christian or legal views wanted

[C.F.W. Walther]

I fell a little leary about asking this because it is very personal but I'm at my wits end on what to do.

This is part of an e-mail I sent my wife who wants a divorce. I think she is getting her papers form internet sites that sell divorce papers in a package deal. Anyway I wonder if my stance will backfire on me and if I am going the right route.

I am firm in my beliefs though.

Pleas pray for guidance.

"In good conscience I can not sign any papers for a divorce. You will just have to find another way.

God hates divorce and the Bible is explicite about not getting a divorce unless the partner has commited adultery. Ask Pastor XXXXXX if you want to know what Lutherans teach about divorce. I have allready commited a sin by getting divorced once and I will not commit another sin by doing it again. I was forgiven for that sin but I will not flaunt it in front of God again and test His mercy and grace........or wrath."

[Jim47]

I can't give you any legal advice, have you talked to a lawyer?

I have to agree that God hates divorce but I really suggest getting your advice on this from your Pastor, or from one of the Pastors here. :)

[C.F.W. Walther]

Well I figure that if I sign the divorce papers then I am going against God's commands. But if I don't sign I might forfeit any decision the judge makes on the settlement of the estate according to a post I found. Sounds like I'm screwed.

"When a default judgment is entered, the non-responding party loses their option for amending or contesting the action and issues (such as custody, property rights, etc) unless they can prove they were not properly served in accordance with the state laws."

[seajoy]

Rad, i don't know much, if anything about lawyer stuff, but please know i am praying for you. what you did, sounds God-pleasing to me.

what a large weight you are bearing. remember, she left you, if the divorce is emminant, no matter what...it may be alright for you to sign.

seajoy:hug: :prayer:

[ricg]

I like the response from the Christian perspective. As a lawyer (but not a family law lawyer), I can only advise you to see a lawyer -- a divorce has serious legal consequences that usually justify the expense. The challenge is finding a good lawyer. Perhaps the best way to find one is to ask lawyer friends in the local area who they'd recommend. One can also call the local bar association, but who knows what criteria they base their advice on. In any event, I wouldn't sign anything without having an attorney examine it and advise me.

The advice will likely depend on what you're signing. It may only be an acknowledgement that you've been served, in which case your response doesn't really make sense.

I pray things will workout. Seems like I'm hearing a lot about marriages in trouble lately. Guess I'll redouble my efforts on my own.

God bless

[IowaLutheran]

I do some family law. I echo ricg in that you should immediately talk to a lawyer in your state.

Here's what can happen to you in general if you ignore the paperwork.

If she has formally served you with a Petition for Dissolution of Marriage, you will be given a certain period of time to file an Answer. (In Iowa, it is 20 days). If you do not file a response, she will most likely be able to see a judge and have the divorce decree say whatever she wants it to say without your input.

You may be able to file a response which preserves your position based on your beliefs. For example, you may be able to file a response which says that you believe that there are no irreconciliable differences which support the dissolution of the marriage. As a practical matter, the divorce will most likely go through anyway (most states are no-fault divorce states, which essentially means that if one party wants out of a marriage, they can get out - again, this is why you need to consult with a lawyer in your state to find out exactly where you stand on this). Even though the divorce would probably go through anyway, you've done two things: (1) You've set forth your position based on your beliefs so you can sleep at night. (2) By filing a response, you've preserved your ability to provide input on how the issues should be resolved, including how property should be divided.

[jcj3803]

Get a lawyer now!

Whether you believe divorce is allowed or not, the court is secular and you must play by their commandments or risk substantial financial loss and unfavorable custody arrangements if children are involved.

My divorce was amicable, but not all are.

[DaRev]

Rad,

I am going to ask a personal question. It may sound like a stupid one, so forgive me.

Do you still love your wife?

[Flipper]

Regardless whether or not you go through a divorce or even a legal separation, do what most everyone is recommending and HIRE A LAWYER!!!!!

Even if you don't want to go through with it, and even if she's doing a "Divorce-in-a-Box," you need to have your rights and assets protected.

Listen to IowaLutheran. Here's an example why. A good friend of mine in Nixa is going through a nasty divorce right now. The first thing the wife did was file a restraining order against my friend, and got an ex parte order saying he wasn't allowed in the house. What she failed to mention in the papers was that the house is in his name only. He didn't have a lawyer at the time, so she could do anything she wanted. Now, he finally hired a lawyer and got it straightened out, but he couldn't understand why she got away with it in the beginning. She made a civil claim, so he has the burdon of proof. He didn't want the divorce either, but she got him kicked out of his own house.

I just can't stress it enough - GET A LAWYER NOW!!!!!

All that being said, Missouri does allow for a Legal Separation whereas it is handled like a divorce, but you are still considered legally married. It's just one of a lot of options out there. Missouri also allows for mediation in lieu of divorce with one lawyer handling it for both of you. I don't know how any of this works, and if I did, telling you so comes very close to giving legal advice which I can't do, but a lawyer can tell you everything that's available.

[C.F.W. Walther]

Rad,

I am going to ask a personal question. It may sound like a stupid one, so forgive me.

Do you still love your wife?
Yes I do DaRev.

[Studeclunker]

As has been said, the courts are secular. Often, they are neutral towards the church, and your beliefs. It all depends on the judge.

Your wife is suing YOU for divorce. Not vice-versa. Yes, this is a mistake you made in the past. There are, of course, two sides to every divorce. Still, we live in a broken world. Divorce happens. There is no way you can stop this process if your wife is determined to carry it through.

Go home Rad. Spend some time with your pastor, with your friends. You will need them. Contact and acquire a good attorney. If your wife is serving you with papers for divorce, SHE is divorcing you. Not vice-versa. You don't have to cooperate, you do have to protect yourself.

Just because your wife has started divorce proceedings, doesn't necessairily mean that a divorce will happen. That's usually the case though, so protect yourself.
Go see your Pastor. Schedule some time, a few days a week, for counselling. You are going to need it. There is no need to throw yourself to the lions.

Part of protecting yourself is to return home. As my wife liked to quote, "Sometimes you just have to take the bull by the tail and face the situation..."

I'll keep praying for you and your wife. Perhaps there will be an amicable settlement between you two. Just remember, there is no shame in leaning on your Christian brothers and sisters for support. Go home Rad. You need to be there to take care of this, whatever happens. Spend some time on your knees, it's always the best course of action.:crossrc:

God bless and keep you both.

[C.F.W. Walther]

Regardless whether or not you go through a divorce or even a legal separation, do what most everyone is recommending and HIRE A LAWYER!!!!!

Even if you don't want to go through with it, and even if she's doing a "Divorce-in-a-Box," you need to have your rights and assets protected.

Listen to IowaLutheran. Here's an example why. A good friend of mine in Nixa is going through a nasty divorce right now. The first thing the wife did was file a restraining order against my friend, and got an ex parte order saying he wasn't allowed in the house. What she failed to mention in the papers was that the house is in his name only. He didn't have a lawyer at the time, so she could do anything she wanted. Now, he finally hired a lawyer and got it straightened out, but he couldn't understand why she got away with it in the beginning. She made a civil claim, so he has the burdon of proof. He didn't want the divorce either, but she got him kicked out of his own house.

I just can't stress it enough - GET A LAWYER NOW!!!!!

All that being said, Missouri does allow for a Legal Separation whereas it is handled like a divorce, but you are still considered legally married. It's just one of a lot of options out there. Missouri also allows for mediation in lieu of divorce with one lawyer handling it for both of you. I don't know how any of this works, and if I did, telling you so comes very close to giving legal advice which I can't do, but a lawyer can tell you everything that's available.


That's exactly what happend to my son and he was the one filing for divorce. He on the other hand got evicted from his house by an ex parte and his lawyer said that she (the lawyer) couldn't do anything about it.

[Flipper]

That's exactly what happend to my son and he was the one filing for divorce. He on the other hand got evicted from his house by an ex parte and his lawyer said that she (the lawyer) couldn't do anything about it.


I know this sounds like a cliche, but every situation is different. Getting a lawyer doesn't mean you'll get your way on everything, but it does give you a heck of a lot more protection than you would have otherwise. Courts eat Pro Se people alive.

[pastorjimg]

Two kingdoms at work here.

Left hand kingdom: Secular- divorce is allowed, encouraged and even celebrated.

Right hand kindgom: God's realm- as you have said, God hates divorce.

What is the Christian to do? Live in both kingdoms. Get a lawyer (left hand) and fight for your marriage (right hand)

One objection could be that you don't want to sacrifice your right hand kingdom beliefs for left hand kingdom issues. However, this is the challenge of living in the two kingdoms. The divorce will happen whether you want it to or not. God knows the heart and knows you will do anything in your power to prevent this divorce. However, as someone has already stated- this is being done to you not by you.


I can understand why you don't want to go into the details of the situation at hand so I will offer the generalities and I am almost certain that you have done these or tried to do these:

* Get counseling for the two of you.
* Ask your wife how you can change.
* Pray together.
* Apologize for any wrongs you have committed.
* Show her she is making a mistake by loving her too much.
* Have her go and talk to a pastor alone- either your pastor or another pastor is she is too embarrasses to talk your pastor.


I hope this is somewhat helpful!
I have prayed for you!!!:crossrc:

Jim

[Flipper]

Two kingdoms at work here.

Left hand kingdom: Secular- divorce is allowed, encouraged and even celebrated.

Right hand kindgom: God's realm- as you have said, God hates divorce.

What is the Christian to do? Live in both kingdoms. Get a lawyer (left hand) and fight for your marriage (right hand)

One objection could be that you don't want to sacrifice your right hand kingdom beliefs for left hand kingdom issues. However, this is the challenge of living in the two kingdoms. The divorce will happen whether you want it to or not. God knows the heart and knows you will do anything in your power to prevent this divorce. However, as someone has already stated- this is being done to you not by you.


I can understand why you don't want to go into the details of the situation at hand so I will offer the generalities and I am almost certain that you have done these or tried to do these:

* Get counseling for the two of you.
* Ask your wife how you can change.
* Pray together.
* Apologize for any wrongs you have committed.
* Show her she is making a mistake by loving her too much.
* Have her go and talk to a pastor alone- either your pastor or another pastor is she is too embarrasses to talk your pastor.


I hope this is somewhat helpful!
I have prayed for you!!!:crossrc:

Jim

Very sound advice - Rad, no one is telling you that you should get a divorce or allow for a divorce. You just need to protect yourself.

[C.F.W. Walther]

I want to thank everyone for their input. It has been very instructional.

[Edial]

1CO 7:15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace.

Does this verse fit your situation?

[C.F.W. Walther]

1CO 7:15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace.

Does this verse fit your situation?She went to church and was confirmed in the Lutheran faith some 38 years ago so I'm assuming she is a believer. I dn't know Ed.....I can't judge her heart.

[Jim47]

Rad, i don't know much, if anything about lawyer stuff, but please know i am praying for you. what you did, sounds God-pleasing to me.

what a large weight you are bearing. remember, she left you, if the divorce is emminant, no matter what...it may be alright for you to sign.

seajoy:hug: :prayer:


I can tell you this without a doubt. There are 2 biblical reasons to divorce someone, unfaithfulness and disertion, which is also unfaithfulness. Unfaithfulness can take many different forms, for instance to withold love from someone, abuse them, failure to support them etc. We just studied this in bible class with my Pastor.

I feel really bad for you John. I hope somehow you can find peace in all this. :prayer:

Give me a call if you need to talk to omeone.

God Bless

[C.F.W. Walther]

If this "desertion" thing is true then I am free to divorce?

She also says she doesn't love me and did withold love from me the last 6 months of marriage. I'm not talking about sex I'm talking about love.

[DaRev]

Yes I do DaRev.

Wonderful!

Make sure she knows that.

...and then tell her again.


You just follow your heart, my friend.


:crossrc: Praying for you, my friend. I know what it's like. I've been through it myself.

[Edial]

If this "desertion" thing is true then I am free to divorce?

She also says she doesn't love me and did withold love from me the last 6 months of marriage. I'm not talking about sex I'm talking about love.
If someone wants to leave, one let's her go.

It is her choice.

And concerning God hating divorce, this is true.

However, He also served the certificate of divorce to Israel.

JER 3:6 During the reign of King Josiah, the LORD said to me, "Have you seen what faithless Israel has done? She has gone up on every high hill and under every spreading tree and has committed adultery there. 7 I thought that after she had done all this she would return to me but she did not, and her unfaithful sister Judah saw it. 8 I gave faithless Israel her certificate of divorce and sent her away because of all her adulteries.

Now, I'm not saying that your wife does adulteries.

What I am saying is that divorce is a thing to hate, but sometimes one does such things while hating it.

Thanks,
Ed