[open]Do you believe you can lose your salvation? [open] [Archive]

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christianmomof3

13th January 2007, 03:11 PM

I have been studying the different group's beliefs on this board.
I still have yet to understand Messianic.
I thought I might be one since I am Jewish and am a born again Christian, but it appears that by ya'lls definition I am not Messianic.
I have several questions:
I was trying to figure out the difference between Messianic beliefs and SDA.
It seems that SDA believes that they are saved by faith, but after that if they don't observe the Sabbath, among other things, they will lose their salvation.
So, do Messianics believe that they can lose their salvation?

And, I understand once again that there is not really a cohesive set of rules as to what Messianics all believe, but, what do ya'll think it means to be saved?

What do ya'll think it means to be born-again?

Do you practice infant baptism or believer's baptism?

I probably have more questions, but this is a start if ya'll don't mind answering them. Thank you :)

Shimshon

13th January 2007, 05:51 PM

What do ya'll think it means to be born-again?This is an awesome question. Can we start with what the apostles had to say about the subject?

Mt 3:11 I baptize you with water for repentance. But the One who is coming after me is more powerful than I; I am not worthy to take off His sandals. He Himself will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Mt 10:20 because you are not speaking, but the Spirit of your Father is speaking in you.

Mt 12:28 If I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come to you.

Mt 12:31 Because of this, I tell you, people will be forgiven every sin and blasphemy, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

Mt 26:41 Stay awake and pray, so that you won't enter into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.

Mr 1:8 I have baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.

Mr 13:11 So when they arrest you and hand you over, don't worry beforehand what you will say. On the contrary, whatever is given to you in that hour--say it. For it isn't you who are speaking, but the Holy Spirit.

Lu 3:16 John answered them all, I baptize you with water. But One is coming who is more powerful than I. I am not worthy to untie the strap of His sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Lu 3:22 and the Holy Spirit descended on Him in a physical appearance like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: You are My beloved Son. I take delight in You!

Lu 11:13 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?

Lu 12:12 For the Holy Spirit will teach you at that very hour what must be said.

Joh 1:33I didn't know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water told me, 'The One on whom you see the Spirit descending and resting--He is the One baptizing with the Holy Spirit.'

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, I assure you: Unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:8 The wind blows where it pleases, and you hear its sound, but you don't know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.

Joh 6:63 The Spirit is the One who gives life. The flesh doesn't help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

Joh 14:17 He is the Spirit of truth, whom the world is unable to receive because it doesn't see Him or know Him. But you do know Him, because He remains with you and will be in you.

Joh 14:26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, will teach you all things and remind you of everything I have told you.

Joh 15:26 When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father--the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father--He will testify about Me.

Joh 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all the truth. For He will not speak on His own, but He will speak whatever He hears. He will also declare to you what is to come.

Ac 1:5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.

Ac 1:8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.

Ac 2:33 Therefore, since He has been exalted to the right hand of God and has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit, He has poured out what you both see and hear.

Ac 2:38 Repent, Peter said to them, and be baptized, each of you, in the name of Jesus the Messiah for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Ac 6:3 Therefore, brothers, select from among you seven men of good reputation, full of the Spirit and wisdom, whom we can appoint to this duty.

Ac 9:17So Ananias left and entered the house. Then he placed his hands on him and said, Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road you were traveling, has sent me so you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.

Ac 10:19 While Peter was thinking about the vision, the Spirit told him, Three men are here looking for you.

Ac 11:16 Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.' 5 But some of the believers from the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, It is necessary to circumcise them and to command them to keep the law of Moses!

Ac 15:15 And the words of the prophets agree with this, as it is written: 16 After these things I will return and will rebuild David's tent, which has fallen down. I will rebuild its ruins and will set it up again, 17 so that those who are left of mankind may seek the Lord-- even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, says the Lord who does these things, 18 which have been known from long ago. 19 Therefore, in my judgment, we should not cause difficulties for those who turn to God from among the Gentiles,

Ac 15:28 For it was the Holy Spirit's decision--and ours--to put no greater burden on you than these necessary things:

Ac 19:2 and asked them, Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed? No, they told him, we haven't even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.

Ac 20:28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among whom the Holy Spirit has appointed you as overseers, to shepherd the church of God, which He purchased with His own blood.

Ro 1:9 For God, whom I serve with my spirit in telling the good news about His Son, is my witness that I constantly mention you,

Ro 8:2 because the Spirit's law of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

Ro 8:9 You, however, are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, since the Spirit of God lives in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

Ro 8:10 Now if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Ro 8:11 And if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead lives in you, then He who raised Christ from the dead will also bring your mortal bodies to life through His Spirit who lives in you.

Ro 8:13 for if you live according to the flesh, you are going to die. But if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Ro 8:15 For you did not receive a spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption, by whom we cry out, Abba , Father!

Ro 15:13 Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.

1Co 3:16 Don't you know that you are God's sanctuary and that the Spirit of God lives in you?

1Co 6:19 Do you not know that your body is a sanctuary of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God? You are not your own,

1Co 12:1 About matters of the spirit: brothers, I do not want you to be unaware. The Lord’s message, the truth that is good news is that the Kingdom of God is among us and is entered and seen by being born in the Spirit. This was the covenant made to David.' 'The Davidic Covenant',

Ps 89:3 I have made a covenant with My chosen; I have sworn to David My servant,

Isa 55:3 Incline your ear and come to Me. Listen, that you may live; And I will make an everlasting covenant with you, {According to} the faithful mercies shown to David.

Isa 16:5A throne will even be established in lovingkindness, And a judge will sit on it in faithfulness in the tent of David; Moreover, he will seek justice And be prompt in righteousness.

Acts 15:10 So why are you putting God to the test now by placing a yoke on the neck of the talmidim which neither our fathers nor we have had the strength to bear? 11 No, it is through the love and kindness of the Lord Yeshua that we trust and are delivered-and it's the same with them. 12 Then the whole assembly kept still as they listened to Bar-Nabba and Sha'ul tell what signs and miracles God had done through them among the Gentiles. 13 Ya'akov broke the silence to reply. Brothers, he said, hear what I have to say. 14 Shim'on has told in detail what God did when he first began to show his concern for taking from among the Goyim a people to bear his name. 15 And the words of the Prophets are in complete harmony with this for it is written, 16 'After this, I will return; and I will rebuild the fallen tent of David. I will rebuild its ruins, I will restore it, 17 so that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord, that is, all the Goyim who have been called by my name, 18 says ADONAI, who is doing these things.' All this has been known for ages. 19 Therefore, my opinion is that we should not put obstacles in the way of the Goyim who are turning to GodTo this messianic, being born in the Spirt is the foundation of the message. The message given by the apostles was one of defining being born of God. Becoming a son of God. One of his children. At least this is what my God is speaking to me. He came to bring life to the dead. Both now and in eternity. Being Born of the Spirit is the proof we have, it's our seal. WE are sealed by the Spirit who births within us the life of God. That's what he's taught me.:)

visionary

13th January 2007, 06:04 PM

It seems that SDA believes that they are saved by faith, but after that if they don't observe the Sabbath, among other things, they will lose their salvation.Salvation is a personal matter between you and the Lord. Since we here should not discuss what SDA believe as they can not defend themselves, we will approach the subject as if you never mentioned them.

"Keeping sabbath or lose salvation"... now that is the bare bones of the question. Is this something like "Keep Sunday or you can not be called a christian"" would be my response back. What ever you choose to respond to the reason sunday is tied to your salvation, I can say the same for the sabbath. So that mean we should probably leave the sabbath /sunday part out of the equation and focus in on the salvation part.

Salvation is based upon your personal relationship with Christ your savior. Salvation is based upon our personal relationship with Yeshua our Messiah, which I believe you can see we are saying the same thing.

Hope that helps.

christianmomof3

13th January 2007, 06:51 PM

Salvation is a personal matter between you and the Lord. Since we here should not discuss what SDA believe as they can not defend themselves, we will approach the subject as if you never mentioned them.

I asked about it in their forum and that is what they told me. :)

"Keeping sabbath or lose salvation"... now that is the bare bones of the question. Is this something like "Keep Sunday or you can not be called a christian"" would be my response back. What ever you choose to respond to the reason sunday is tied to your salvation, I can say the same for the sabbath. So that mean we should probably leave the sabbath /sunday part out of the equation and focus in on the salvation part.

No, I actually want to know if there is the OSAS or NOSAS belief in the Messianic movement or whatever Messianic is. (Is it a movement, denomination, group, set of beliefs or what would it be called anyway?)

I do not believe that Sunday is the Sabbath, nor do I believe that it is tied to salvation. But, the SDA and some other groups believe that salvation can be lost either by not observing the Sabbath or by other things.
And since Messianic also are Sabbath observers, I wondered if they shared that view.

Salvation is based upon your personal relationship with Christ your savior. Salvation is based upon our personal relationship with Yeshua our Messiah, which I believe you can see we are saying the same thing.

Hope that helps.

That is good, but does not say if you feel that salvation can be lost or what salvation means to your group. I have found on this board that not all groups share the same definitions which leads to many misunderstandings so I am trying to learn what salvation means to each group.

I believe that when we are born-again, Christ Himself enters into our human spirit to be our life.
At the same time, He promises never to leave us, thus our eternal salvation is secure.
However, that is not all there is to salvation.
I believe that salvation includes the process of transformation that we undergo throughout our entire lives as we allow Christ to spread from our spirit to our soul, thus making His home in our hearts.
I do not see OSAS as meaning "I said the magic words and I bought my ticket to heaven (some old neighbors of mine used those words "ticket to heaven") so now I can do as I please and it does not matter.
I do believe that we must pursue Christ for our entire lifetime in order to receive a dispensational reward and in order to enjoy His presence in our lives day by day and moment by moment.

Henaynei

13th January 2007, 07:05 PM

So, do Messianics believe that they can lose their salvation?

One can't lose their salvation as one might lose their keys or glasses. However, a believer/follower/saved person CAN chose to turn their back and walk away from salvation. It is not something that one misstep, failure or act can accomplish. It is a fully cognitive and deliberate decision.

What do ya'll think it means to be saved?

It means that the debt I owed due to my failure to obey G-d's commandments was/is paid by the Sacrifice of Yeshua, if I chose to submit to His will and grace. (Justification) After that it is a matter of working and walking it out and seeking with my whole heart to obey Him in every way as best as I am able, seeking to be more able with every passing day. (Sanctification)

What do ya'll think it means to be born-again?

I was born of my mother, in sin, incomplete because my spirit was dead. I lived in sin rebelling in my own will and ways - I was dead to the reality and will of HaShem.

When I surrendered to His will and grace my spirit was born anew. With a spirit born of the spirit my soul is renewed and refreshed, cleansed from the dross and mire of a self-filled, self-led life. And I have the precious gift of communication and relationship with HaShem. Through this cleansing and relationship I also have access, upon my bodily death, to live in His presence.

Do you practice infant baptism or believer's baptism?

Believer's immersion

b'Shalom
Henaynei

Torah

13th January 2007, 08:06 PM

MattyJames

14th January 2007, 12:37 AM

This is very well said Henaynei, I agree.

Bar-choo Hashem

And I second the compliments!

regards,

Matt James

StormSeeker

14th January 2007, 02:45 AM

Can you lose your salvation?

I believe you can- absolutely.

Deuteronomy 9:13 Furthermore the LORD spake unto me, saying, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:
14 Let me alone, that I may destroy them, and blot out their name from under heaven: and I will make of thee a nation mightier and greater than they.

In those verses you see God ready to take away the salvation of those He just delivered from Egypt.

Then there is King Shaul (Saul) who lost his salvation after crossing the Lord only once. Whereas King David commited some of the most agregious sins and he was pardoned. This to me is a classic illustration that good people do not go to heaven. King David for all intents and purposes was not good- but he loved God and He loved Torah- God I would say loved David's passion despite his sins. But King Shaul he cut off just like that and even sent evil spirits upon him.

Psalms 119:155 ¶Salvation is far from the wicked: for they seek not thy statutes.

Here in Psalms it shows the wicked have no salvation- despite what some say about the law in relationship to Yeshua's ressurection- even the most religious among us can be wicked if they do things against God's laws.

2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Shaul says here that godly sorrow works towards repentance. Which can work the other way- to live your life without repeantance after the knowledge of Yeshua can cause you to lose your salvation.

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Shaul here tells us that our salvation must be worked out with fear and trembling. First- if our salvation cannot be lost- then why do we have to work it. And secondly- why do we work it with fear and trembling- precisely because we can lose our salvation- none of us know the mind of this great and mighty God we serve.

We see on one hand cutting off King Shaul over one sin that didn't harm anyone, and then we see King David's sins caused alot of real harm. But yet David was counted as the beloved of God and his throne preserved to usher the birth of our Messiah.

Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

The immortal words of Yeshua that I think few people really reflect on. Many are called- in other words God gives most of the world a chance to find him and accept him- be it before or after Yeshua's ressurection on earth. But few are chosen- of all those billions of people called from the beginning of time to the end- only a tithe will make it to salvation.

To suggest that you cannot loose your salvation is to me to make Yeshua's words untrue about the few chosen. The book of revelations describes a multitude of people who are saved- but that multitude is all of humanity from beginning to end that was actually saved.

As an example of my thoughts on this- Many Catholic Priests committed pedophilia with innocent children. And many other bishops and priests overlooked the rampant sexual abuse of who knows how many children. I am not God nor am I a judge of salvation- but I have a hard time believing those pedophiles who believed in Jesus will have kept their salvation. They might have genuinely accept Yeshua in innocence and love and lived earnestly according to what they thought was right living. But then they go evil and abuse children- ruining them and their families- I cannot see their salvation- again I am not God.

I hope this makes sense.

Shalom.

Yovel

14th January 2007, 03:06 AM

I agree totally with what Henaynei said, you can't loose your salvation but you can make the decision to turn your back on salvation.

I have seen a lot of people who believe "once saved always saved" and live like the world during the week and look so pious on Sunday. They are only fooling themselves.

Great post Henaynei.

Torah

14th January 2007, 08:10 AM

LadyGarnetRose

14th January 2007, 10:15 AM

So, do Messianics believe that they can lose their salvation?

No, I do not believe a person can lose their salvation, but as stated one can turn their back on God. But, I also believe a person can find their error in this and return to God again.

And, I understand once again that there is not really a cohesive set of rules as to what Messianics all believe, but, what do ya'll think it means to be saved?

There is a wonderful set of rules... The Torah. We don't all agree on what it says at times, but we all agree the rules are there, and very well laid out for us.

To be saved one must embrace Messiah. Everything else comes with it after the embrace of Him into us. Everything else being works. Works do not prove a man's faith nor salvation.

What do ya'll think it means to be born-again?

I've never been crazy about the term born-again because of the connotation that goes with it. While we are born in sin, we were all born right the first time by our mother. When we embrace Messiah, we aren't born again, we are cleansed, sanctified, empowered with the ability to better ourselves in the eyes of our Lord.

Do you practice infant baptism or believer's baptism?

Believer's immersion as well. I have the faith that once one becomes of age, and they have the ability to reason right and wrong, and embrace Messiah, then can the make the worldly ritual of mikvah to cleanse the taint that we are all born with.

StormSeeker

14th January 2007, 02:01 PM

I also agree with StormSeeker, I believe StormSeeker & Henaynei are saying the same thing but in different ways. Great post both of you. :thumbsup:
Shalom

Nice to see you Matt. Did you have a good Shabbat. :wave:

Almost the same thing :thumbsup:

In my view- you don't even have to turn your back to God. King Shaul sinned against God but still wanted to serve God after God cut him off. Ultimately we are probably on the same page- it is still a concious decision on your part to do something you know God detests and you take a chance on the mercy and grace He will extend to.

Revelations mentions any person taking the mark of the beast will be cut off. The text does not even mention a way back- almost like another unpardonable sin. I will bet a lot of desperate or well-intentioned believers will accept that mark but still love God- just not as much as God wants us to love Him.

These leads me in another direction about keeping Torah- I have been learning and keeping Torah for the last 7 years. It is such a part of my life I cannot let it go- it would be like voluntarily cutting my right arm off to let it go. Torah is really a lifestyle- until doing it- I was tryuing to understand why the Hebrews of the past were so willing to die for God and Torah- God and Torah were so ingrained in them they could not separate it from themselves- it would be like dying anyways to give the lifestyle of Torah up.

Whereas those who do not believe we have to keep those specific commandments will be much more prone to giving up what they believe because there is nothing in their physical life to connect themselves to God- all they have is their prayers and what they percieve grace to be.

Every commandment that we keep has a spiritual parrallel that helps bring understanding and remembrance. To honor your mother and your father is to honor your Father who is in Heaven.

Kosher eating is also like this- it was only kosher animals that were sacrificed in the temple- keeping kosher ourselves points to the fact that we are each a temple that God wants to occupy- the grey matter between the temples. Food affects thoughts and dreams- God wants us to have a clean heart (mind) with a clean body.

Shalom.

Henaynei

14th January 2007, 02:07 PM

Almost the same thing :thumbsup:

In my view- you don't even have to turn your back to God. King Shaul sinned against God but still wanted to serve God after God cut him off. Ultimately we are probably on the same page- it is still a concious decision on your part to do something you know God detests and you take a chance on the mercy and grace He will extend to.

Revelations mentions any person taking the mark of the beast will be cut off. The text does not even mention a way back- almost like another unpardonable sin. I will bet a lot of desperate or well-intentioned believers will accept that mark but still love God- just not as much as God wants us to love Him.

These leads me in another direction about keeping Torah- I have been learning and keeping Torah for the last 7 years. It is such a part of my life I cannot let it go- it would be like voluntarily cutting my right arm off to let it go. Torah is really a lifestyle- until doing it- I was tryuing to understand why the Hebrews of the past were so willing to die for God and Torah- God and Torah were so ingrained in them they could not separate it from themselves- it would be like dying anyways to give the lifestyle of Torah up.

Whereas those who do not believe we have to keep those specific commandments will be much more prone to giving up what they believe because there is nothing in their physical life to connect themselves to God- all they have is their prayers and what they percieve grace to be.

Every commandment that we keep has a spiritual parrallel that helps bring understanding and remembrance. To honor your mother and your father is to honor your Father who is in Heaven.

Kosher eating is also like this- it was only kosher animals that were sacrificed in the temple- keeping kosher ourselves points to the fact that we are each a temple that God wants to occupy- the grey matter between the temples. Food affects thoughts and dreams- God wants us to have a clean heart (mind) with a clean body.

Shalom.good post StormSeeker :)

visionary

14th January 2007, 03:27 PM

Salvation is like the birthright, only this time by adoption and it too can be lost.Hebrews 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.Salvation is based upon true repentence and transformation... if there is neither of these occuring, I do not think it matters what one may think... I will go with what God thinks of the unrepentent believer or non believer Jeremiah 20:16 And let that man be as the cities which the LORD overthrew, and repented not: and let him hear the cry in the morning, and the shouting at noontide;Who do you think the warning are for ... the believer or the unbeliever or both? Ezekiel 18:30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.Salvation is not OSAO Matthew 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.I would say this quote is for the believer Romans 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?Remeber 2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Yovel

14th January 2007, 10:34 PM

Mat 13:3 And he spake to them many things in parables, saying, Behold, the sower went forth to sow;
4 and as he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the birds came and devoured them:
5 and others fell upon the rocky places, where they had not much earth: and straightway they sprang up, because they had no deepness of earth:
:6 and when the sun was risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
7 And others fell upon the thorns; and the thorns grew up and choked them:
8 and others fell upon the good ground, and yielded fruit, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Below is Yeshua's interpretation of the parable above.

Mat 13:18 Hear then ye the parable of the sower.
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the evil one, and snatcheth away that which hath been sown in his heart. This is he that was sown by the way side.
:20 And he that was sown upon the rocky places, this is he that heareth the word, and straightway with joy receiveth it;
21 yet hath he not root in himself, but endureth for a while; and when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, straightway he stumbleth.
22 And he that was sown among the thorns, this is he that heareth the word; and the care of the world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23 And he that was sown upon the good ground, this is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; who verily beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Verses 21 and 22 show why some people don't stay 'Saved'. They don't stay in the WORD so they can grow and take on the trials and temptations that come into our lives.

If your are in the WORD and having fellowship with like minded believers then you don't need to worry about losing your Salvation = Yeshua.

Henaynei

15th January 2007, 05:03 AM

"work out your salvation in fear and trembling" Phil 2:12

what is it that you are to fear that causes you to trembling?

debi b

15th January 2007, 08:33 PM

When I made the commitment to follow Messiah all I really accomplished was to begin (I have not finished).

1 Cor 9:24
Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain.

Paul is talking to people who have made the commitment to follow.

9:27 But I discipline my body and bring into subjection, lest when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

10:12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.

Now if we have accomplished something what motivation do we have to "deny ourselves, pick up our cross (which speaks of our death in this life) and follow Him? It quickly falls into the catagory of "a good idear" and how circumspect are we - really?

Phil 3:10-12
that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His suffering, being conformed to His death, if , by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

NOT THAT I HAVE ALREADY ATTAINED, OR AM ALREADY PERFECTED; BUT I PRESS ON...

If I restrain myself on the outside but burn in my heart with "how dare you" (no matter what that is about) how would you ever know? And if I don't know that dying to my concept of "how dare you" is something I should be doing - will I do it?

visionary

15th January 2007, 10:30 PM

Paul is talking to people who have made the commitment to follow.

9:27 But I discipline my body and bring into subjection, lest when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

10:12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.Excellent verses worth repeating. :thumbsup:

LadyGarnetRose

16th January 2007, 02:03 AM

"work out your salvation in fear and trembling" Phil 2:12

what is it that you are to fear that causes you to trembling?
Sometimes you look to the Lord, and wonder how He can forgive you. And the awe of it, the splendor of the knowledge that God loves you and will keep you and will cherish you and cleanse you of your sins as He does all others no matter your sin, is a humbling, trembling, fearful moment in many who are now in Grace.

Tishri1

16th January 2007, 02:57 AM

Heres how I see it...

I think if we could actually see our sin on Yeshua's beatten and battered body, we would do all we could to keep our lives set apart , on the other hand can we ever make our lives so pure as to erase even one stripe off his back.......

If our posture is one of eternal gratitude for what he did and what we could never deserve,

Then Salvation is when I hold on to Yeshua with all my mind, heart and strength...When I have nothing else to hold on to.

Can I lose it?...... not unless I'm willing to deny what He did and let go...

that is unimaginable:bow: