Hypocrites

[ivory]

Unfortunately the words “sinner” and “hypocrite” are being confused. The confusion is between what one is and what one does. Sinner is the generic term of what "is." Scripture says all people are found in this category, both in and outside the Church. Everyone falls short of the perfection of God which makes them a sinner. Being a Hypocrite is specifically what one does. Since hypocrisy is a sin, we can say, All hypocrites are sinners. But not all sinners are hypocrites.

Who are these people? Why are they in the body of Christ ?(the church) Can the true christians identify them?

[tapero]

Unfortunately the words “sinner” and “hypocrite” are being confused. The confusion is between what one is and what one does. Sinner is the generic term of what "is." Scripture says all people are found in this category, both in and outside the Church. Everyone falls short of the perfection of God which makes them a sinner. Being a Hypocrite is specifically what one does. Since hypocrisy is a sin, we can say, All hypocrites are sinners. But not all sinners are hypocrites.

Who are these people? Why are they in the body of Christ ?(the church) Can the true christians identify them?

We are all hypocrites as Christians as we fail all the time. Hypocrisy can be on the inside and not known to others. We are hypocritical. What Jesus wanted us to watch for is those who teach and yet do not practice what they teach.

The false teaching is, which many Christians struggle with, is that many try to change the outside of people, when God says it is the inward man that needs change. The hypocrites Jesus spoke of were clean on the outside (in appearance to men, as many Christians appear to others, myself included) but dirty on the inside (myself included.)

We will always be working on things, or should I say God will always be helping us to grow in our walk with him. We all sin and fall short of the glory of God.

It is the work of the Holy Spirit that changes us in our hearts, and then there is an outward change perhaps, if there was something being done outwardly.

Jesus said:
22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

I believe these people are the religious teachers who lead others astray.

God bless,
Tapero
ETA: I know that God has made me clean though Christ's sacrfice for my sin.

[Nadiine]

Hypocrisy is one of my BIGGEST pet peeves. It makes me ill... I work very hard not to be guilty of the very thing I get so frustrated at when I see it done by others.
But, I STILL DO IT even tho I'm consciously working not to. I catch myself doing it sometimes and I cringe.
I only PRAY that I don't do it much when I'm so self-conscious of it.

I agree with Tapero, we're unfortunately all hypocrites at one time or another... and some alot more than others! & there's different reasons for it too. It can stem from [spiritual] rebellion/sin, doublemindedness, hatred, spiritual blindness, bitterness, partiality, and ignorance.

The issue is, what we do about it when it's confronted & revealed to us (by God and/or others who spotted it - & God often works thru people to confront us); THAT'S the test of who we are.
Will we apologize? Repent? Or harden? :angel:

[ivory]

We are all hypocrites as Christians as we fail all the time. Hypocrisy can be on the inside and not known to others. We are hypocritical. What Jesus wanted us to watch for is those who teach and yet do not practice what they teach.

The false teaching is, which many Christians struggle with, is that many try to change the outside of people, when God says it is the inward man that needs change. The hypocrites Jesus spoke of were clean on the outside (in appearance to men, as many Christians appear to others, myself included) but dirty on the inside (myself included.)

We will always be working on things, or should I say God will always be helping us to grow in our walk with him. We all sin and fall short of the glory of God.

It is the work of the Holy Spirit that changes us in our hearts, and then there is an outward change perhaps, if there was something being done outwardly.

Jesus said:


I believe these people are the religious teachers who lead others astray.

God bless,
Tapero
ETA: I know that God has made me clean though Christ's sacrfice for my sin.
We are not all hypocrites, we are sinners saved by grace, and yes we do fall because of that sinful nature.
A hypocrite is one who "pretends" to be a christian. They do this for the purpose of trying to fool the children of God and to lead them away for God. If you Love God, there is no way possible you can be a hypocrite, a sinner, YES.

[ivory]

Hypocrisy is one of my BIGGEST pet peeves. It makes me ill... I work very hard not to be guilty of the very thing I get so frustrated at when I see it done by others.
But, I STILL DO IT even tho I'm consciously working not to. I catch myself doing it sometimes and I cringe.
I only PRAY that I don't do it much when I'm so self-conscious of it.

I agree with Tapero, we're unfortunately all hypocrites at one time or another... and some alot more than others! & there's different reasons for it too. It can stem from [spiritual] rebellion/sin, doublemindedness, hatred, spiritual blindness, bitterness, partiality, and ignorance.

The issue is, what we do about it when it's confronted & revealed to us (by God and/or others who spotted it - & God often works thru people to confront us); THAT'S the test of who we are.
Will we apologize? Repent? Or harden? :angel:
A hypocrite's job is to fool the child of God's, this comand comes from Satan. Is this what you do? I don't think so. Do you love the Lord? Do you try, in your humanly power to please God? If your answers is YES, Then how can you ever be a hypocrite? A hypocrite "PRETENDS to love God.

[tapero]

We are not all hypocrites, we are sinners saved by grace, and yes we do fall because of that sinful nature.
A hypocrite is one who "pretends" to be a christian. They do this for the purpose of trying to fool the children of God and to lead them away for God. If you Love God, there is no way possible you can be a hypocrite, a sinner, YES.

Hi, I shouldn't have said all. A hypocrite isn't one who pretends to be a Christian. A hypocrite is someone who says one things and does another, hence the pharisee's. I'm glad you don't fall prey to that, but in general, every Christian falls short and is hypocritical.

God bless,
Tapero

[ivory]

Hi, I shouldn't have said all. A hypocrite isn't one who pretends to be a Christian. A hypocrite is someone who says one things and does another, hence the pharisee's. I'm glad you don't fall prey to that, but in general, every Christian falls short and is hypocritical.

God bless,
Tapero
This is a topic you need to study more.

God Bless!

[tapero]

I did a search on the word hypocrite in the NIV.

Came up with 2 hits:

You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.


How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.


He is talking to believers here. We all struggle.

[ivory]

I did a search on the word hypocrite in the NIV.

Came up with 2 hits:




He is talking to believers here. We all struggle.
His is talking to those who are claming to be believers.

[ivory]

His is talking to those who are claming to be believers.
Because you stuggle, does not make you a hypocrite

[Zecryphon]

"Unfortunately the words “sinner” and “hypocrite” are being confused. The confusion is between what one is and what one does."

I don't see how there could be any confusion between the two, because they're pretty self-explanatory. We are declared sinners when compared to the Law. A hypocrite is someone who says they don't do something and then turn around and do it. A hypocrite could also be someone who says they no longer sin, and then turn around and commit a sin.

"Sinner is the generic term of what "is." Scripture says all people are found in this category, both in and outside the Church. Everyone falls short of the perfection of God which makes them a sinner."

Yep.

"Being a Hypocrite is specifically what one does. Since hypocrisy is a sin, we can say, All hypocrites are sinners. But not all sinners are hypocrites."

I disagree with this. I think all hypocrites are sinners and likewise all sinners are hypocrites because there is not one person that I have talked to or have heard interviewed, when asked, 'are you a good person', has said 'no, I'm not.' It's only after they've been shown how they are a bad person that they will admit that they are in fact not good.

"Who are these people?"

They're everybody. They're you and me. Yes, I too have been a hypocrite at times.

"Why are they in the body of Christ ?(the church)"

Why are you in the body of Christ? Christ is looking for the sinners, hypocrites, liars, fornicators, blasphemers, thieves, murderers etc. I believe the Holy Spirit uses us to bring these people to church, but more importantly to repentence and faith in Christ Himself. You don't need a church to do that, because salvation exists outside the church, though not outside of Christ.

"Can the true christians identify them?"

Before we tackle the task of identifying them, we have to first define what a true Christian is. What are the criteria for defining a "true" Christian? And why does it have to be an us vs. them situation here? If you're looking for backsliders and carnal Christians, look to 90% of the church body on earth. Most people who call themselvs Christians, are not what you would classify as being a Christian at all, when you examine their behavior.

[Nadiine]

A hypocrite's job is to fool the child of God's, this comand comes from Satan. Is this what you do? I don't think so. Do you love the Lord? Do you try, in your humanly power to please God? If your answers is YES, Then how can you ever be a hypocrite? A hypocrite "PRETENDS to love God.

A hypcrite isn't limited to this definition. People can be hypocritical in many issues; not just 'posing' as a Christian.
In fact, many think they ARE Christians (Mat. 7:21-23) - it doesn't mean they're a hypocrite if they truly believe they are one, does it?

[ivory]

"Unfortunately the words “sinner” and “hypocrite” are being confused. The confusion is between what one is and what one does."

I don't see how there could be any confusion between the two, because they're pretty self-explanatory. We are declared sinners when compared to the Law. A hypocrite is someone who says they don't do something and then turn around and do it. A hypocrite could also be someone who says they no longer sin, and then turn around and commit a sin.

"Sinner is the generic term of what "is." Scripture says all people are found in this category, both in and outside the Church. Everyone falls short of the perfection of God which makes them a sinner."

Yep.

"Being a Hypocrite is specifically what one does. Since hypocrisy is a sin, we can say, All hypocrites are sinners. But not all sinners are hypocrites."

I disagree with this. I think all hypocrites are sinners and likewise all sinners are hypocrites because there is not one person that I have talked to or have heard interviewed, when asked, 'are you a good person', has said 'no, I'm not.' It's only after they've been shown how they are a bad person that they will admit that they are in fact not good.

"Who are these people?"

They're everybody. They're you and me. Yes, I too have been a hypocrite at times.

"Why are they in the body of Christ ?(the church)"

Why are you in the body of Christ? Christ is looking for the sinners, hypocrites, liars, fornicators, blasphemers, thieves, murderers etc. I believe the Holy Spirit uses us to bring these people to church, but more importantly to repentence and faith in Christ Himself. You don't need a church to do that, because salvation exists outside the church, though not outside of Christ.

"Can the true christians identify them?"

Before we tackle the task of identifying them, we have to first define what a true Christian is. What are the criteria for defining a "true" Christian? And why does it have to be an us vs. them situation here? If you're looking for backsliders and carnal Christians, look to 90% of the church body on earth. Most people who call themselvs Christians, are not what you would classify as being a Christian at all, when you examine their behavior.
Satan can do more damage from inside the church then outside which is why he plants the tares there. These hypocrites that are planted by Satan are not believers, and christians need to be able to spot them. You are not a hyopcrite if you are a child of God. His blood says so. Yes we all say things a don't do them or do the opposite of what we say we will do, but that does not make you a hypocrite. Hypocrites God dislikes, sinners God loves.

[Zecryphon]

"His is talking to those who are claming to be believers."

How do you make this disctinction based upon the text?

[tapero]

His is talking to those who are claming to be believers.

If that scipture doesn't apply to believers then we are in trouble. We are to search ourselves before we go to someone and tell them their error.

I shouldn't have limited my search. Do you not know that some of our works will be burned up for we had the wrong motives:

Here is more scripture on hypocrites:


So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.



Do you think a Christian can be guilty of doing this. I do.


And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.



Regardless that he is talking of Jews, we are also guilty of this too.


When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show men they are fasting. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.


I've never fasted before, but I've been convicted by this scripture. And I'm not talking about being convicted about fasting.


Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean


Many Christians, true Christians are like this. Looking great on the outside, but inside, at home, they are different people.

Sorry, most Christians are hypocritical, because we are sinners. We fail, we sin, we hide, we are different with one person than another.

I'm not saying this in a negative way at all. I'm just tyring to say we should recognize that we suffer from these things as well. I'm not saying in a harsh judgemental way that Christians are hypocrites. I'm saying that we all fall short. I believe if we want to reach others for Christ, we need to be real, and honest with who we are.

Some people are afraid to smoke around other Christians for fear of being judged. Some Christians hide that they drink for fear of being judged. Some Christians do terrible things to people. David had a man murdered. We all struggle and need to be honest if we are to show Christ to the world. In my opinion.

I didn't mean to talk about hypocrisy and Christians in a negative way. I am saying we all suffer from it. Our heart is desperately wicked, though we have been made righteous with Christ, and now have a new heart.

[ivory]

A hypcrite isn't limited to this definition. People can be hypocritical in many issues; not just 'posing' as a Christian.
In fact, many think they ARE Christians (Mat. 7:21-23) - it doesn't mean they're a hypocrite if they truly believe they are one, does it?
My post is about hypocrites in the church

[ivory]

The parable, Wheat and the Tares

[Zecryphon]

"Satan can do more damage from inside the church then outside which is why he plants the tares there."

Oh so we're gonna blame the devil for our shortcomings as people now? When you can't admit imperfection, blame the devil.

"These hypocrites that are planted by Satan are not believers, and christians need to be able to spot them."

Good, now how do you propose we spot them? Since we exhibit the same behavior from time to time as these "evil hypocrites who are on Satan's roster" do?

"You are not a hyopcrite if you are a child of God."

Children of God, still fall in their walk with Him. That means they sin, even though they profess that sinful behavior is against God and they don't do it. That is hypocritical. I will not tell you I don't lie anymore, I won't tell you I don't have hateful thoughts towards people who can't drive, I won't tell you I don't have the passing lustful thought, because I do all these things. If I said I didn't do them and continued doing them in secret, I would be a hypocrite.

"His blood says so."

I wasn't aware blood could speak.

"Yes we all say things a don't do them or do the opposite of what we say we will do, but that does not make you a hypocrite."

Yes it does. You might want to consult a dictionary of the English language, you seem to be having some problems understanding what a certain word means.

"Hypocrites God dislikes, sinners God loves."

Actually God hates sinners and can not tolerate them at all. In order for God to be able to tolerate sinners, He had to send His son to die for the sinners, so they could be reconciled to Him. If God had no problem with sinners as you suggest Jesus would not have needed to die on the cross, because God just loves as we are, in our sinful state, and would welcome us gladly into Heaven as we are.

[ivory]

"Satan can do more damage from inside the church then outside which is why he plants the tares there."

Oh so we're gonna blame the devil for our shortcomings as people now? When you can't admit imperfection, blame the devil.

"These hypocrites that are planted by Satan are not believers, and christians need to be able to spot them."

Good, now how do you propose we spot them? Since we exhibit the same behavior from time to time as these "evil hypocrites who are on Satan's roster" do?

"You are not a hyopcrite if you are a child of God."

Children of God, still fall in their walk with Him. That means they sin, even though they profess that sinful behavior is against God and they don't do it. That is hypocritical. I will not tell you I don't lie anymore, I won't tell you I don't have hateful thoughts towards people who can't drive, I won't tell you I don't have the passing lustful thought, because I do all these things. If I said I didn't do them and continued doing them in secret, I would be a hypocrite.

"His blood says so."

I wasn't aware blood could speak.

"Yes we all say things a don't do them or do the opposite of what we say we will do, but that does not make you a hypocrite."

Yes it does. You might want to consult a dictionary of the English language, you seem to be having some problems understanding what a certain word means.

"Hypocrites God dislikes, sinners God loves."

Actually God hates sinners and can not tolerate them at all. In order for God to be able to tolerate sinners, He had to send His son to die for the sinners, so they could be reconciled to Him. If God had no problem with sinners as you suggest Jesus would not have needed to die on the cross, because God just loves as we are, in oru sinful state, and would welcome us gladly into Heaven as we are.
Wheat and Tare
Matthew 13:24-30
24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather themup?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

[Zecryphon]

Do you really think that the tares in this parable knew they were tares? Were they there with the sole purpose to deceive the wheat? I mean Peter demonstrated some behavior, denying Christ three times, that could classify him as a tare. Or could they be likened to the seed that fell among rocky soil or grew up with the thorns, as in the parable of the sower?

[ivory]

Just can't give an answer can you? That worries me.
God Loves the sinner and hates the sin

[tapero]

Hi Ivory,

If you will or want to can you see my post, which is post 15, and give me your thoughts?

Thanks.

[ivory]

If that scipture doesn't apply to believers then we are in trouble. We are to search ourselves before we go to someone and tell them their error.

I shouldn't have limited my search. Do you not know that some of our works will be burned up for we had the wrong motives:

Here is more scripture on hypocrites:


Do you think a Christian can be guilty of doing this. I do.



Regardless that he is talking of Jews, we are also guilty of this too.


I've never fasted before, but I've been convicted by this scripture. And I'm not talking about being convicted about fasting.


Many Christians, true Christians are like this. Looking great on the outside, but inside, at home, they are different people.

Sorry, most Christians are hypocritical, because we are sinners. We fail, we sin, we hide, we are different with one person than another.

I'm not saying this in a negative way at all. I'm just tyring to say we should recognize that we suffer from these things as well. I'm not saying in a harsh judgemental way that Christians are hypocrites. I'm saying that we all fall short. I believe if we want to reach others for Christ, we need to be real, and honest with who we are.

Some people are afraid to smoke around other Christians for fear of being judged. Some Christians hide that they drink for fear of being judged. Some Christians do terrible things to people. David had a man murdered. We all struggle and need to be honest if we are to show Christ to the world. In my opinion.

I didn't mean to talk about hypocrisy and Christians in a negative way. I am saying we all suffer from it. Our heart is desperately wicked, though we have been made righteous with Christ, and now have a new heart.
Many Christians, true Christians are like this. Looking great on the outside, but inside, at home, they are different people.

And how do you know who is a true christian, only God know this

[tapero]

Many Christians, true Christians are like this. Looking great on the outside, but inside, at home, they are different people.

And how do you know who is a true christian, only God know this

Because I'm one

[ivory]

Because I'm one
I believe you are, if you say so, but you do not know others relationship with God.

[tapero]

I believe you are, if you say so, but you do not know others relationship with God.
No, you're right, but we are all in the same boat and we are sinners. I know part of my heart, and I know I'm no different than my brothers and sisters in Christ.

Here is one place where I believe church hypocrisy will meet it's doom: I believe these are the religious leaders that lead people astray, tv evangelists and the like. People who do not believe in Christ, never did, as Jesus says I never knew you.

This may be the type of hypocrisy you've been trying to point out.

Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Blessings,
Tapero

[ivory]

When Jesus went to the cross, He covered ALL our sins, past present, and future, those who have accepted Christ as there Lord and Savior, so God no longer see us as sinner, we are saints, children of God's, even though we still sin sometimes.

[tapero]

When Jesus went to the cross, He covered ALL our sins, past present, and future, those who have accepted Christ as there Lord and Savior, so God no longer see us as sinner, we are saints, children of God's, even though we still sin sometimes.
I agree.

[gier12]

Hi I was looking in Matt 7:1-6 where Jesus speaks to 2 brothers one judging the other. A hypocrite is quick to judge but fails to see that he has the same attribute in his own life. I know judging someone is a sin, but as said before you can be a sinner and not a hypocrite, since we are all sinner in our inperfections.

Jon

[Nadiine]

Hi I was looking in Matt 7:1-6 where Jesus speaks to 2 brothers one judging the other. A hypocrite is quick to judge but fails to see that he has the same attribute in his own life. I know judging someone is a sin, but as said before you can be a sinner and not a hypocrite, since we are all sinner in our inperfections.

Jon

Well, judging people isn't a "sin"... wrongful judging & condemnation would be.
1 Cor 5 says we're to judge those inside the church (not outside)...
We judge fruit not outward appearance.

[Nadiine]

When Jesus went to the cross, He covered ALL our sins, past present, and future, those who have accepted Christ as there Lord and Savior, so God no longer see us as sinner, we are saints, children of God's, even though we still sin sometimes.
I like to say that technically we're all sinners becuz we still sin.
Positionally, Christ has covered us with His righteousness to pardon our sin thru His blood.

So technically we are sinners (which is why we continue to repent)... we just have a new spiritual position in Christ.
:)

[ivory]

Well, judging people isn't a "sin"... wrongful judging & condemnation would be.
1 Cor 5 says we're to judge those inside the church (not outside)...
We judge fruit not outward appearance.
Hi, I agree, we are only to judge those inside the church with righteous judgement. This is what I am doing, judging those who confess to be christians (a child of God) inside the body of Christ, and are not. God calls them hypocrites.

[ivory]

Hi I was looking in Matt 7:1-6 where Jesus speaks to 2 brothers one judging the other. A hypocrite is quick to judge but fails to see that he has the same attribute in his own life. I know judging someone is a sin, but as said before you can be a sinner and not a hypocrite, since we are all sinner in our inperfections.

Jon
I agree!

[Nadiine]

Hi, I agree, we are only to judge those inside the church with righteous judgement. This is what I am doing, judging those who confess to be christians (a child of God) inside the body of Christ, and are not. God calls them hypocrites.

I don't quite see where you make this leap that we're to judge their salvations?
Notice Paul in Corinthians - those new converts were committing incest & all kinds of sexual immorality.
Yet Paul called them brothers.
we judge sin/fruit, not who's of God & who isn't.

That's some dangerous territory - and it's God's job to judge their hearts (if saved or not).
I judge doctrinal messages only. And even then, the tares remain until GOD removes them.

[ivory]

I don't quite see where you make this leap that we're to judge their salvations?
Notice Paul in Corinthians - those new converts were committing incest & all kinds of sexual immorality.
Yet Paul called them brothers.
we judge sin/fruit, not who's of God & who isn't.

That's some dangerous territory - and it's God's job to judge their hearts (if saved or not).
I judge doctrinal messages only. And even then, the tares remain until GOD removes them.
I am not judging their salvation. Salvation is not mine to give or take away. The bible speaks of hypocrites in the chuch, the bible is the word of God, and if the bible say it, then I believe it, so don't get mad with me for somthing you don't understand, pray for wisdom.

God Bless!

[Zecryphon]

"The bible speaks of hypocrites in the chuch,"

Yes it does.

"the bible is the word of God, and if the bible say it, then I believe it," so don't get mad with me for somthing you don't understand, pray for wisdom."

Why do you think she doesn't understand this issue of hypocrisy? Because she disagrees with you? I thought the Bible was your standard for what is true, since if the Bible says it you believe it. Nadiine, understands this issue just fine. I think you're the one that needs to be praying for a little compassion and understanding towards those who disagree with you. You and condemnation seem to be getting along really well today.

[ivory]

"The bible speaks of hypocrites in the chuch,"

Yes it does.

"the bible is the word of God, and if the bible say it, then I believe it," so don't get mad with me for somthing you don't understand, pray for wisdom."

Why do you think she doesn't understand this issue of hypocrisy? Because she disagrees with you? I thought the Bible was your standard for what is true, since if the Bible says it you believe it. Nadiine, understands this issue just fine. I think you're the one that needs to be praying for a little compassion and understanding towards those who disagree with you. You and condemnation seem to be getting along really well today.
I am not condemming anyone, if you would read the posts correctly, I have tried to explain that we are not hypocrites, now, if you wish to call yourself that, then so be it. I have stated over and over that a child of God's is not a hypocrite, yes we sometimes fall short but that does not mean we are hypocrites. If you wish to read into this differently, that is your choice, and as far as praying for wisdom, we ALL need to pray for God's wisdom, this wasn't something I was saying to hurt her feelings and if I have, I am very sorry. You speak very angery, I have read some of your posts and you seem to be an angry person. Why is that?

[Nadiine]

I am not judging their salvation. Salvation is not mine to give or take away. The bible speaks of hypocrites in the chuch, the bible is the word of God, and if the bible say it, then I believe it, so don't get mad with me for somthing you don't understand, pray for wisdom.

God Bless!
This was your earlier post:
Originally Posted by ivory http://www3.christianforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=30700800#post30700800)
Hi, I agree, we are only to judge those inside the church with righteous judgement. This is what I am doing, judging those who confess to be christians (a child of God) inside the body of Christ, and are not. God calls them hypocrites.


You said you are judging those who confess to being Christians (inside the body of Christ) and are NOT.

That means you are judging IF THEY ARE CHRISTIAN'S or not. doesn't it? Maybe you meant that another way, I don't know? :scratch:

Hypocrites aren't ONLY those who claim to be Christian but are not.
Hypocrites are also Christians who do hypocritical things... such as, telling you lying is a sin then they turn around and lie to someone etc. It isn't solely limited to your use of it pertaining to genuine Christianity here.

I'm more than willing to pray for added wisdom & understanding from the Lord, but in this subject, I don't think I'm confused.
:angel:

[Zecryphon]

I am not condemming anyone, if you would read the posts correctly, I have tried to explain that we are not hypocrites, now, if you wish to call yourself that, then so be it. I have stated over and over that a child of God's is not a hypocrite, yes we sometimes fall short but that does not mean we are hypocrites. If you wish to read into this differently, that is your choice, and as far as praying for wisdom, we ALL need to pray for God's wisdom, this wasn't something I was saying to hurt her feelings and if I have, I am very sorry. You speak very angery, I have read some of your posts and you seem to be an angry person. Why is that?
"I am not condemming anyone,"

Maybe you need to look up the definition of condemn along with the definition of hypocrite.

"if you would read the posts correctly,"

There is only one way to read a post and that is to read it literally. It says what is says. I don't see a lot of metaphors or symbolism in posts in general, so it's isn't like there's some deeper meaning in a post online.

"I have tried to explain that we are not hypocrites, now, if you wish to call yourself that, then so be it."

Anybody can be a hypocrite. For some reason you just refuse to believe that.

"I have stated over and over that a child of God's is not a hypocrite, yes we sometimes fall short but that does not mean we are hypocrites."

No, falling short of God's standard means you have committed a sin. To be a hypocrite means to say one thing and do another. Being a Christian does not automatically cure you of being able to be a hypocrite.

"If you wish to read into this differently, that is your choice, and as far as praying for wisdom, we ALL need to pray for God's wisdom, this wasn't something I was saying to hurt her feelings and if I have, I am very sorry."

Yeah, your comment did come off that way.

"You speak very angery, I have read some of your posts and you seem to be an angry person. Why is that?"

I'm German, as a people we are about as subtle as a freight train or a sharp stick in the eye. LOL We don't beat around the bush. I'm very analytical in my posts and responses, and I favor a line by line breakdown of a post. I used to be a mod of an online forum like this one and you learn to speak in a different way. A way that conveys what you want to say in a direct manner so there is no chance of being misunderstood. This is offputting to some people and some people think I'm angry, when I'm not. Plus you have to remember that since this is a message board, we subconciously attach a "voice" to the messages we read here.

[ivory]

"I am not condemming anyone,"

Maybe you need to look up the definition of condemn along with the definition of hypocrite.

"if you would read the posts correctly,"

There is only one way to read a post and that is to read it literally. It says what is says. I don't see a lot of metaphors or symbolism in posts in general, so it's isn't like there's some deeper meaning in a post online.

"I have tried to explain that we are not hypocrites, now, if you wish to call yourself that, then so be it."

Anybody can be a hypocrite. For some reason you just refuse to believe that.

"I have stated over and over that a child of God's is not a hypocrite, yes we sometimes fall short but that does not mean we are hypocrites."

No, falling short of God's standard means you have committed a sin. To be a hypocrite means to say one thing and do another. Being a Christian does not automatically cure you of being able to be a hypocrite.

"If you wish to read into this differently, that is your choice, and as far as praying for wisdom, we ALL need to pray for God's wisdom, this wasn't something I was saying to hurt her feelings and if I have, I am very sorry."

Yeah, your comment did come off that way.

"You speak very angery, I have read some of your posts and you seem to be an angry person. Why is that?"

I'm German, as a people we are about as subtle as a freight train or a sharp stick in the eye. LOL We don't beat around the bush. I'm very analytical in my posts and responses, and I favor a line by line breakdown of a post. I used to be a mod of an online forum like this one and you learn to speak in a different way. A way that conveys what you want to say in a direct manner so there is no chance of being misunderstood. This is offputting to some people and some people think I'm angry, when I'm not. Plus you have to remember that since this is a message board, we subconciously attach a "voice" to the messages we read here.
Yes anyone can be a hypocrite, but what I am refering to is the church only, but I see, no matter what I say you will debate, you are a debater, I'm not so we will agree to disagree and leave it at that. You are a christian, you need to lighten up abit, you can get your point across without a debate or anger. (smile)

God Bless!

[Nadiine]

Yes anyone can be a hypocrite, but what I am refering to is the church only, but I see, no matter what I say you will debate, you are a debater, I'm not so we will agree to disagree and leave it at that. You are a christian, you need to lighten up abit, you can get your point across without a debate or anger. (smile)


This isn't to Ivory directly - and this is what I keep seeing, different people have different characters & communication quirks.
Instead of forcing everyone like Zech. to bend to OUR STYLE, we should also be accepting of other's less "coddly, fluffy, syrupy" styles of debate & communication.

Zech. doesn't have to conform to your idea of proper communication; whether you're right or not.
IF we really want to see that change, then let's ASK GOD to change that in Zech. directly.

I empathize with him in this subject, becuz I have a similar style of debate style - I'm not being rude, hateful or mean - this is my style.
We shouldn't force people to be like US - I find fluffy and overly syrupy sounding posts rather IRRITATING at times! lol
I don't berrate or ask them to change for me.

AGain this isn't AT Ivory , it's at the subject I've seen posted a few times at CF in general.
I think we should give GRACE to others who aren't like us & are more direct.
:angel:

[ivory]

This isn't to Ivory directly - and this is what I keep seeing, different people have different characters & communication quirks.
Instead of forcing everyone like Zech. to bend to OUR STYLE, we should also be accepting of other's less "coddly, fluffy, syrupy" styles of debate & communication.

Zech. doesn't have to conform to your idea of proper communication; whether you're right or not.
IF we really want to see that change, then let's ASK GOD to change that in Zech. directly.

I empathize with him in this subject, becuz I have a similar style of debate style - I'm not being rude, hateful or mean - this is my style.
We shouldn't force people to be like US - I find fluffy and overly syrupy sounding posts rather IRRITATING at times! lol
I don't berrate or ask them to change for me.

AGain this isn't AT Ivory , it's at the subject I've seen posted a few times at CF in general.
I think we should give GRACE to others who aren't like us & are more direct.
:angel:
Yes I agree, and he should do the same

Peace!