How can we be happy when people we know will go to hell?

[Carriebuk]

I think all the time about my close family members who have died, and those who will die as in the future, who are not Christians. The Bible says they will go to hell. How can we be happy as Christians in that knowledge? Thinking of this torments me daily!

Thank you.

[neilius73]

I don't think this is so. God is just and merciful. We only have a temporal lifespan; eternal damnation, condemnation or judgement is not a just punishment/reward for such.
Just my opinion. A lot of pastors, evangelists will use the 'Hell rap' to scare people into their religion. Be careful who you listen to.

[CrazyforYeshua]

Hell is scriptural, no way around it.
The Word also says there is no sorrow in Heaven. I don't know how that works when it comes to unsaved loved ones, I just know it's true.

[Nadiine]

I think all the time about my close family members who have died, and those who will die as in the future, who are not Christians. The Bible says they will go to hell. How can we be happy as Christians in that knowledge? Thinking of this torments me daily!

I know how you feel. I have thoughts like that too - I'm sure you'll get plenty of posts that deny Hell exists & that God is too loving to send people there forever, etc etc.
All I will say is, IT'S IN THE BIBLE everywhere as a sobering fact.

You know, it's really unproductive if you think about it. There's NOTHING we can do about our loved ones who reject Christ after they've gone...
You can't change anything, so it's pretty futile to continue thinking of it; - it might also be an attack that Satan is bringing against you to get your attn. on something unproductive and possibly destructive...

Aside from that, I don't think we're supposed to dwell on negative things like that becuz it steals our JOY in the Lord and I think it makes us unproductive over time. Those thoughts can really turn against God or truth if you let them... it can build doubt, bitterness, anger, etc.

Be careful where you let mind stay. Guard it.

Here's a verse that might help:
Phil. 4:8
Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.

[Zecryphon]

I think all the time about my close family members who have died, and those who will die as in the future, who are not Christians. The Bible says they will go to hell. How can we be happy as Christians in that knowledge? Thinking of this torments me daily!

Thank you.
If this problem is causing you this level of distress, stop thinking about these people suffering an eternal torment in Hell and do something to change the path that they are on. Witness to them, Biblically, the way Jesus did. Use the law, the Ten Commandments, in your presentation of the gospel message. A great website for witnessing resources is: www.livingwaters.com (http://www.livingwaters.com), www.wayofthemaster.com (http://www.wayofthemaster.com) and www.wayofthemasterradio.com (http://www.wayofthemasterradio.com) A really great book that teaches you how to evangelize using the law, is Hell's Best Kept Secret by Ray Comfort, which can be ordered through any of the above sites or from your local bookstore if they don't have it in stock.

[Siderite]

I think that this is one of the hardest things to come to terms with. Particularly when this involves family members.

Thankfully, we will not know sorrow in heaven.

[Zecryphon]

'I don't think this is so. God is just and merciful."

Let's take a look at that statement shall we? What does God being just mean to you? To me it means that God must punish those who break His laws, the Ten Commandments.

Let's take a look at a hypothetical witness encounter. Let's say I'm witnessing to an unsaved person, using the law in my presentation of the Gospel message. Here's how it has typically played out in the past.

Me: Have you ever stolen anything, irregardless of value?

Unsaved person: Yes.

Me: What does that make you?

Unsaved person: A thief.

Me: Have you ever told a lie?

Unsaved person: Yep.

Me: What does that make you?

Unsaved person: A liar.

Me: Have you ever used God's name as a cuss word, or to express frustration or anger?

Unsaved person: Yes.

Me: This is a very serious offense called blasphemy. You have taken the name of the creator of everything in the universe, of you and me, and used it as a way to express anger and frustration.

Me: Have you ever looked at a woman and had a sexual thought about her?

Unsaved person: Oh yeah.

Me: Jesus said that any man who looks upon a woman with lust has comitted adultery with her alreadyin his heart.
Okay, so by your own admission, you are a thieving, lying, blasphemous, adulterer at heart and you have to stand before a holy and just God on Judgment Day. If God is just and must punish those who break His laws, where do you think you will end up, in Heaven or in Hell?

*Now anybody who is being honest will know that they are going to Hell, if God is just, because they have broken His laws.

Me: But God made a way for us to avoid going to Hell. He showed mercy by sending His son to die on a cross in our place, to take the punishment that we all have earned through our sin. So in order to receive the gift of salvation, you must repent of your sin, that means acknowlege that you are a sinner, confess it to God, tell him that you are sorry for the sin you have comitted, tell him you want to turn from that sin, and put your faith and trust in His son Jesus Christ, and you will be saved from God's wrath.

"We only have a temporal lifespan; eternal damnation, condemnation or judgement is not a just punishment/reward for such."

Yes it is. When you are shown that you have broken the laws of God, Hell is the punishment for breaking those Laws. That is God's standard, 'break my laws, go to Hell'. You earned it, all by yourself. Let's look at it another way. If you were standing before a judge and had been found guilty of breaking some laws in this country and told him in your defense, that you only broke a few laws, and that you were really a good person and your good deeds outweighed your bad deeds, would you really expect a just judge to let you go free? Just because you said you were a good person and you were sorry for what you had done? No! Of course not! Justice would not be served at all, if he just let you go. So why should we expect God to let us off the hook, just because we say we're sorry?

Following your line of thinking, Jesus didn't have to die on the cross to take our punishment. I mean, if God is just going to let us in to Heaven because He's so merciful, we don't need a savior. Because what are we being saved from? Without the law to convict you of your sin and show that you are guilty, the cross doesn't make any sense. If you have plaecd your trust in Jesus, why have you done so, if God is just mercy and love and is going to let you into Heaven regardless of what you've done in opposition to Him?

"Just my opinion. A lot of pastors, evangelists will use the 'Hell rap' to scare people into their religion. Be careful who you listen to."

Based upon your statements, I am going to beg you to reconsider your position on this whole doctrine of Hell. Jesus spoke more about Hell than He did about Heaven. Why do you think that is? Was He just trying to scare people into doing what is right? I don't think so.

[Nadiine]

If this problem is causing you this level of distress, stop thinking about these people suffering an eternal torment in Hell and do something to change the path that they are on. Witness to them, Biblically, the way Jesus did. Use the law, the Ten Commandments, in your presentation of the gospel message. A great website for witnessing resources is: www.livingwaters.com (http://www.livingwaters.com), www.wayofthemaster.com (http://www.wayofthemaster.com) and www.wayofthemasterradio.com (http://www.wayofthemasterradio.com) A really great book that teaches you how to evangelize using the law, is Hell's Best Kept Secret by Ray Comfort, which can be ordered through any of the above sites or from your local bookstore if they don't have it in stock.

K, I have to rep your post here... just the other day I watched "the Way of the Master", and they relayed the new statistics on large groups of people who accepted the Lord in one year.

As it boiled down with the "LOVE ONLY" (lack of witnessing about sin, penalties of sin etc), 90 out of the 100 FELL AWAY from their original committment to Christ.
10 out 100 actually last past one year... that's a horrible stat!
And this is all with the "love only" method of witnessing.

People MUST KNOW what they are being saved FROM in order to appreciate God's precious gift & realize the need for His precious sacrifice for us.

:thumbsup:

[Janester]

I think all the time about my close family members who have died, and those who will die as in the future, who are not Christians. The Bible says they will go to hell. How can we be happy as Christians in that knowledge? Thinking of this torments me daily!

Thank you.
I don't believe you're alone in your sorry for your loved ones who don't know Jesus.

When I'm stuck by this, it leads me to pray that the Lord would open their eyes to the truth so that they would know Him. As well as, praying that He would use me to share and represent Him in the way that would be most effective for them to know Him.

My prayer partner and I get together once a week to pray for our families, all believers and all unbelievers. We pray that the Lord of the Harvest will send out people to cross their path with the Good News of the Gospel and that they will be open to God's love and mercy. For believers, that we would be united in love as Jesus prayed in John 17.

I don't know the method God will use to 'wipe away all tears' but I trust that He will allow us to be released from all sorrow, including those we love who have died without knowing Him.

We have seen amazing answers to prayer on behalf of others and it's exciting to see how God works......most often in a way that we wouldn't have thought of. We also pray to represent Him in a way to them that allows Him to work most effectively in their hearts and minds.

[linssue55]

I think all the time about my close family members who have died, and those who will die as in the future, who are not Christians. The Bible says they will go to hell. How can we be happy as Christians in that knowledge? Thinking of this torments me daily!

Thank you.The Lord DEMANDS our inner happiness, for this is His plan, to have the happiness that He has, and we are to share it regardless of outward circumstances. "Do not live for this world." Of course we are sad, but THEY are the one's that rejected this wonderful, perfect God man. He gave them every opportunity, and they still rejected it. It was NOT HIs or OUR doing.

[Zecryphon]

The Lord DEMANDS our inner happiness, for this is His plan, to have the happiness that He has, and we are to share it regardless of outward circumstances. "Do not live for this world." Of course we are sad, but THEY are the one's that rejected this wonderful, perfect God man. He gave them every opportunity, and they still rejected it. It was NOT HIs or OUR doing.
"Of course we are sad, but THEY are the one's that rejected this wonderful, perfect God man."

It would be good to know some of the reasons for their rejection of Jesus. Maybe they really are just ignorant of Him and all that He has done for them and why He has done these things.

"He gave them every opportunity, and they still rejected it. It was NOT HIs or OUR doing."

I believe that God gives us every opportunity to share the gospel with them. It is our doing if we do not present them with a sound gospel presentation or just rely on bringing them to church as a guest one Sunday and hope the pastor gets through to them. As you know, I believe in using the law to convict a person in their heart. If you present the gospel in this way, the only way I can see someone still rejecting Jesus is if they don't believe the Bible is true. I believe we must try everything we can think of to bring these people to Christ and to never give up on them, especially if they're family. Family members by the way are the hardest people to witness to, because unlike a stranger on the street or a screen name on the internet, you WILL see these people again.

[Zecryphon]

K, I have to rep your post here... just the other day I watched "the Way of the Master", and they relayed the new statistics on large groups of people who accepted the Lord in one year.

As it boiled down with the "LOVE ONLY" (lack of witnessing about sin, penalties of sin etc), 90 out of the 100 FELL AWAY from their original committment to Christ.
10 out 100 actually last past one year... that's a horrible stat!
And this is all with the "love only" method of witnessing.

People MUST KNOW what they are being saved FROM in order to appreciate God's precious gift & realize the need for His precious sacrifice for us.

:thumbsup:
"just the other day I watched "the Way of the Master", and they relayed the new statistics on large groups of people who accepted the Lord in one year."

::does happy dance of joy::

Yay! Another convert! LOL

"As it boiled down with the "LOVE ONLY" (lack of witnessing about sin, penalties of sin etc), 90 out of the 100 FELL AWAY from their original committment to Christ.
10 out 100 actually last past one year... that's a horrible stat!"

Yeah it really is. If you go out and buy Hell's Best Kept Secret you will read all about the stats Ray initially came across in the early 70's when he went looking for information about how many people were truly converted as opposed to those who were only saved for a little while, then became backsliders.

"And this is all with the "love only" method of witnessing."

Without the law, the cross makes no sense.

"People MUST KNOW what they are being saved FROM in order to appreciate God's precious gift & realize the need for His precious sacrifice for us."

Absolutely, because if you give a typical "love only" gospel presentation some obvious questions are just begging to be asked.

When I hear a typical "love only" gospel presenation, I put myself in the position of someone who knows absolutely nothing about Christianity and then some really obvious questions leap to mind. Such as: "what's a sin", "what am I being saved from", "why is God mad at me", "who's Jesus"? There is a major presupposition going on in most evangelical encounters and sermons these days, that it actually hurts the gospel presentation. We leave out the crucial points, because we just assume everybody knows who God is, who Jesus is, what sin is, what the law is and what it states. So for us to go through that stuff again is redundant and a waste of time. The sad thing is, that most people don't know about any of that stuff. That's why we need to tell them when we have the chance and we must also clear up any misconceptions they have about all of those topics too. Now in a witnessing encounter we only have a few minutes of their time, so we have to really have this presentation down to a science. Hell's Best Kept Secret by Ray Comfort gives you a few ways to present the Gospel effectively, within such a short period of time. Remember we're not after decisions for Jesus, but repentence on the part of the sinner we are witnessing to.

[linssue55]

"Of course we are sad, but THEY are the one's that rejected this wonderful, perfect God man."

It would be good to know some of the reasons for their rejection of Jesus. Maybe they really are just ignorant of Him and all that He has done for them and why He has done these things.

"He gave them every opportunity, and they still rejected it. It was NOT HIs or OUR doing."

I believe that God gives us every opportunity to share the gospel with them. It is our doing if we do not present them with a sound gospel presentation or just rely on bringing them to church as a guest one Sunday and hope the pastor gets through to them. As you know, I believe in using the law to convict a person in their heart. If you present the gospel in this way, the only way I can see someone still rejecting Jesus is if they don't believe the Bible is true. I believe we must try everything we can think of to bring these people to Christ and to never give up on them, especially if they're family. Family members by the way are the hardest people to witness to, because unlike a stranger on the street or a screen name on the internet, you WILL see these people again.We do the best we can. People that were FACE to FACE with the Lord still rejected Him.

Hell will be full of people that reject the Lord. There are some that CANNOT and DO NOT want to be saved. Witnessing is what we are to do, but remember some WILL NOT choose for the Lord. God knew this billions of years ago, and ACCEPTED it, and He would want us to accept it to. SOME will never come to Christ. This is life, very sad, but very true.

[Zecryphon]

We do the best we can. People that were FACE to FACE with the Lord still rejected Him.

Hell will be full of people that reject the Lord. There are some that CANNOT and DO NOT want to be saved. Witnessing is what we are to do, but remember some WILL NOT choose for the Lord. God knew this billions of years ago, and ACCEPTED it, and He would want us to accept it to. SOME will never come to Christ. This is life, very sad, but very true.
"Hell will be full of people that reject the Lord."

This is sad, but true.

"There are some that CANNOT and DO NOT want to be saved."

I have not met anyone who does not want to go to Heaven. But I have met talked to a number of people who do not want anything to do with the God of the Bible, so they will not be saved.

"Witnessing is what we are to do, but remember some WILL NOT choose for the Lord."

I'm not looking for a decision when I witness. If they do choose Jesus on the spot, great, but I'm looking for them to be convicted in their heart and show repentence, more than anything else. All I'm really looking to do is plant a seed. As to what happens to that seed, I can not say, but I believe the only things that can happen to it were laid out in the parable of the sower.

"God knew this billions of years ago, and ACCEPTED it,"

Just out of curiosity, do you believe in predestination?

"and He would want us to accept it to.""

I have a hard time doing so, because it sounds too much like a rationalization for not doing everything we can possibly think of to bring people to repentence and faith in Jesus Christ so that they are saved.

"SOME will never come to Christ. This is life, very sad, but very true."

Indeed.

[ivory]

I think all the time about my close family members who have died, and those who will die as in the future, who are not Christians. The Bible says they will go to hell. How can we be happy as Christians in that knowledge? Thinking of this torments me daily!

Thank you.
We do not know if they received salvation or not. Everyone is in the presence of God at death, they may have recieved salvation on there dying bed. Those whom we think made it in might not have, and those who we would never think made it just might have, so use your faith to believe, they recieved salvation on their dying bed. (smile)

[newleaf]

I think all the time about my close family members who have died, and those who will die as in the future, who are not Christians. The Bible says they will go to hell. How can we be happy as Christians in that knowledge? Thinking of this torments me daily!

Thank you.

If this problem is causing you this level of distress, stop thinking about these people suffering an eternal torment in Hell and do something to change the path that they are on. Witness to them, Biblically, the way Jesus did. I agree. What you'll find with many people who totally, always resist the word, is that the're very hostile towards God, as well as to Christians. I see a world that's full of evil crucifyers, who do deserve to go to a place of torment.
On the brighter side of things, God is patient with everyone, and does everything He can to save people. He even gave us His Son, who died a horrible death, so that they would be forgiven, and be with Him. All good comes from God.Without God, there can be no good, at all.

[SanctifiedKitty]

You dont have to be happy about it...I mean this shows you have compassion. Look at Paul and his urgency to reach the people. I actually get very emotional when thinking about people that havent accepted the Truth. Do your part as a christian and witness to them..help plant a seed that may eventually grow. Be joyful in your salvation and mourn for the lost.I'll pray for this.

[linssue55]

"Hell will be full of people that reject the Lord."

This is sad, but true.

"There are some that CANNOT and DO NOT want to be saved."

I have not met anyone who does not want to go to Heaven. But I have met talked to a number of people who do not want anything to do with the God of the Bible, so they will not be saved.

"Witnessing is what we are to do, but remember some WILL NOT choose for the Lord."

I'm not looking for a decision when I witness. If they do choose Jesus on the spot, great, but I'm looking for them to be convicted in their heart and show repentence, more than anything else. All I'm really looking to do is plant a seed. As to what happens to that seed, I can not say, but I believe the only things that can happen to it were laid out in the parable of the sower.

"God knew this billions of years ago, and ACCEPTED it,"

Just out of curiosity, do you believe in predestination?

"and He would want us to accept it to.""

I have a hard time doing so, because it sounds too much like a rationalization for not doing everything we can possibly think of to bring people to repentence and faith in Jesus Christ so that they are saved.

"SOME will never come to Christ. This is life, very sad, but very true."

Indeed.God does NOT interfere with anyone's free will, this is a huge part of Predestination. Let's just say there will always be those that will reject God and/or His word. Let's just leave it at that.

[JonahII]

God makes every effort to keep people from going to hell. He wants everyone to repent, and takes no delight in the death of the wicked.

[MyLifeIsHis]

I really sympathize with the OP.

But we really don't know what our loved ones last thought was before they passed. It could of been of God and sorrow for their sins. When it comes to crunch time in ones life, we think or behave differently. Even if that crunch time in a nanosecond.

don't give up hope and dont dwell on the negative. God judges justly, we leave it in His hands. His wll be done.
His will is our will also, what ever that may be when it comes to loved ones that have died.

[Doer]

'I don't think this is so. God is just and merciful."

Let's take a look at that statement shall we? What does God being just mean to you? To me it means that God must punish those who break His laws, the Ten Commandments.

Let's take a look at a hypothetical witness encounter. Let's say I'm witnessing to an unsaved person, using the law in my presentation of the Gospel message. Here's how it has typically played out in the past.

Me: Have you ever stolen anything, irregardless of value?

Unsaved person: Yes.

Me: What does that make you?

Unsaved person: A thief.

Me: Have you ever told a lie?

Unsaved person: Yep.

Me: What does that make you?

Unsaved person: A liar.

Me: Have you ever used God's name as a cuss word, or to express frustration or anger?

Unsaved person: Yes.

Me: This is a very serious offense called blasphemy. You have taken the name of the creator of everything in the universe, of you and me, and used it as a way to express anger and frustration.

Me: Have you ever looked at a woman and had a sexual thought about her?

Unsaved person: Oh yeah.

Me: Jesus said that any man who looks upon a woman with lust has comitted adultery with her alreadyin his heart.
Okay, so by your own admission, you are a thieving, lying, blasphemous, adulterer at heart and you have to stand before a holy and just God on Judgment Day. If God is just and must punish those who break His laws, where do you think you will end up, in Heaven or in Hell?

*Now anybody who is being honest will know that they are going to Hell, if God is just, because they have broken His laws.

Me: But God made a way for us to avoid going to Hell. He showed mercy by sending His son to die on a cross in our place, to take the punishment that we all have earned through our sin. So in order to receive the gift of salvation, you must repent of your sin, that means acknowlege that you are a sinner, confess it to God, tell him that you are sorry for the sin you have comitted, tell him you want to turn from that sin, and put your faith and trust in His son Jesus Christ, and you will be saved from God's wrath.

"We only have a temporal lifespan; eternal damnation, condemnation or judgement is not a just punishment/reward for such."

Yes it is. When you are shown that you have broken the laws of God, Hell is the punishment for breaking those Laws. That is God's standard, 'break my laws, go to Hell'. You earned it, all by yourself. Let's look at it another way. If you were standing before a judge and had been found guilty of breaking some laws in this country and told him in your defense, that you only broke a few laws, and that you were really a good person and your good deeds outweighed your bad deeds, would you really expect a just judge to let you go free? Just because you said you were a good person and you were sorry for what you had done? No! Of course not! Justice would not be served at all, if he just let you go. So why should we expect God to let us off the hook, just because we say we're sorry?

Following your line of thinking, Jesus didn't have to die on the cross to take our punishment. I mean, if God is just going to let us in to Heaven because He's so merciful, we don't need a savior. Because what are we being saved from? Without the law to convict you of your sin and show that you are guilty, the cross doesn't make any sense. If you have plaecd your trust in Jesus, why have you done so, if God is just mercy and love and is going to let you into Heaven regardless of what you've done in opposition to Him?

"Just my opinion. A lot of pastors, evangelists will use the 'Hell rap' to scare people into their religion. Be careful who you listen to."

Based upon your statements, I am going to beg you to reconsider your position on this whole doctrine of Hell. Jesus spoke more about Hell than He did about Heaven. Why do you think that is? Was He just trying to scare people into doing what is right? I don't think so.

God does not lie, he said we will perish in Hell if we do not accept him as our lord and savior, and repent of our sins.

[Nadiine]

I really sympathize with the OP.

But we really don't know what our loved ones last thought was before they passed. It could of been of God and sorrow for their sins. When it comes to crunch time in ones life, we think or behave differently. Even if that crunch time in a nanosecond.

don't give up hope and dont dwell on the negative. God judges justly, we leave it in His hands. His wll be done.
His will is our will also, what ever that may be when it comes to loved ones that have died.

I definitely agree - we really can't know for sure. We can speculate & assume, but we have no real proof either way.
That's a good point & one that I HOPE would bring some comfort.

One thing is for sure, God doesn't send torment to our minds to keep us remembering terrible things... that is not how God operates.
I have relatives that I believe aren't with God right now too, but I keep in mind that they made a conscious decision & God is only honoring their wishes. (and I refuse to dwell on those things, I'll work all I can to keep others from that place).

[epyon]

Well we should'nt be. We should everthing in our to help them. But it is up to them so save themself.

[Zecryphon]

Well we should'nt be. We should everthing in our to help them. But it is up to them so save themself.
"But it is up to them so save themself."

You realize this contradicts the Bible right? The Bible makes it clear that there is nothing we can do to save ourselves. So how do you justify this comment you have made?

[jasper123]

I think all the time about my close family members who have died, and those who will die as in the future, who are not Christians. The Bible says they will go to hell. How can we be happy as Christians in that knowledge? Thinking of this torments me daily!

Thank you.
Augustine said God is just, if a person is just God will
not refuse him.
Ron

[Athanasian Creed]

K, I have to rep your post here... just the other day I watched "the Way of the Master", and they relayed the new statistics on large groups of people who accepted the Lord in one year.

As it boiled down with the "LOVE ONLY" (lack of witnessing about sin, penalties of sin etc), 90 out of the 100 FELL AWAY from their original committment to Christ.
10 out 100 actually last past one year... that's a horrible stat!
And this is all with the "love only" method of witnessing.

People MUST KNOW what they are being saved FROM in order to appreciate God's precious gift & realize the need for His precious sacrifice for us.

:thumbsup:


Here's something everyone should do - check the book of Acts and notice how little (if ever) God's love is emphasized. Then, check how many times the word "repent" comes up.

Those that over emphasis the love of God and under emphasis the fact that God calls every man to repent and change his ways will be shocked! ;)



Ray :wave:

[Athanasian Creed]

Augustine said God is just, if a person is just God will not refuse him. Ron

Chapter and verse please??! :eek:

The Bible clearly says that we are saved only by God's grace through our faith in Him. It is only in the name of Jesus and faith in His name that salvation is found...not if a person is just or not. Being 'just' doesn't save anyone! ;)



Ray :wave:

[Nadiine]

Chapter and verse please??! :eek:

The Bible clearly says that we are saved only by God's grace through our faith in Him. It is only in the name of Jesus and faith in His name that salvation is found...not if a person is just or not. Being 'just' doesn't save anyone! ;)


:thumbsup: Hopefully that's what Jasper meant by 'just'.

But I can't agree more, there is 1 way to God the Father, & it's thru Jesus Christ alone via faith.

His blood removes sin, nothing else. :angel:

[Athanasian Creed]

I think all the time about my close family members who have died, and those who will die as in the future, who are not Christians. The Bible says they will go to hell. How can we be happy as Christians in that knowledge? Thinking of this torments me daily!

Thank you.

The Word of God is quite clear that those who die outside of the Father's forgiveness through the sacrifice of Jesus His Son will spend eternity (forever AND ever) in the fiery Lake of Fire, tormented day and night without end! This is an undisputable fact!

Knowing this fact, it should spur all of us who profess Christ as Lord and Saviour to be the best witnesses for Him we can be so that those we know and love will not have to spend eternity in a place described in the Bible where "the worm dieth not nor is the fire quenched!" :eek:

I pity those who believe hell will be a place to party (if there is such a person who really, in their heart of hearts believes this)

May God use us in these last days to be bold ambassadors of "our great God and Saviour" Jesus Christ! :thumbsup:



Ray :wave:

[ranyhyn]

I pity those who believe hell will be a place to party (if there is such a person who really, in their heart of hearts believes this)


Whenever I think about this kind of thing here it reminds me of the joke about the guy who goes to hell and he is shown everything he likes to indulge in. Golf, partying, women, etc. He then goes to heaven and it's all dull...just people with wings and harps. He chooses to go to hell. When he gets back all he sees is death, destruction, trash, etc.

He asks the devil what happened...and the answer is

"Yesterday you saw the campaign...today you voted"

As for the OP...we certainly cannot be happy knowing that others are going to hell. Especially when some of those could be our family members. But remember that not everyone will be saved and go to heaven. God's gift is given to all of us but not everyone will accept that gift. The fact that some will reject it should give us pause and make us work that much harder to build the kingdom of heaven. We should try to take as many with us as we can.

Rest assured that at some point in time every tongue shall confess and every knee shall bow and know that Jesus is Lord. Every day we have here is another opportunity for us to minister to someone. Pray that God would send someone across your path that you might minister the Word of God to. You may not witness that person getting saved but you may very well plant the seed and someone else will reap the harvest. Either way the job is done. Someone else may plant the seed that you may one day harvest...we're all in this together ...

[VCViking]

I know how you feel. I have thoughts like that too - I'm sure you'll get plenty of posts that deny Hell exists & that God is too loving to send people there forever, etc etc.
All I will say is, IT'S IN THE BIBLE everywhere as a sobering fact.

You know, it's really unproductive if you think about it. There's NOTHING we can do about our loved ones who reject Christ after they've gone...
You can't change anything, so it's pretty futile to continue thinking of it; - it might also be an attack that Satan is bringing against you to get your attn. on something unproductive and possibly destructive...

Aside from that, I don't think we're supposed to dwell on negative things like that becuz it steals our JOY in the Lord and I think it makes us unproductive over time. Those thoughts can really turn against God or truth if you let them... it can build doubt, bitterness, anger, etc.

Be careful where you let mind stay. Guard it.

Here's a verse that might help:
Phil. 4:8
Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.




:thumbsup: :amen:

[VCViking]

Ray Comfort And Kirk Cameon are awesome! Great ministry.

[Athanasian Creed]

Ray Comfort And Kirk Cameon are awesome! Great ministry.

I second your sentiment - no fluff in the Gospel they present. Every time i hear KK being interviewed, the more impressed i am of his committment to Christ and the truth of God's Word. He puts alot of emphasis on sound doctrine, which is always a joy to my heart! :thumbsup:



Ray :wave:

[Svt4Him]

Ray Comfort does talk about this in an excellent way, and my Bible teacher once said that the reason people don't witness more is because we don't really believe in hell like we should. It breaks my heart to think about what will happen, and I hope one day it will break it enough that I move out of my self-serving comfort zone and be a witness to get people off that path.

This is an excerpt of an e-mail to Ray from an atheist.
"You are really convinced that you've got all the answers. You've really got yourself tricked into believing that you're 100% right. Well, let me tell you just one thing. Do you consider yourself to be compassionate of other humans? If you're right, as you say you are, and you believe that, then how can you sleep at night? When you speak with me, you are speaking with someone who you believe is walking directly into eternal damnation, into an endless onslaught of horrendous pain which your 'loving' god created, yet you stand by and do nothing.
If you believed one bit that thousands every day were falling into an eternal and unchangeable fate, you should be running the streets mad with rage at their blindness. That's equivalent to standing on a street corner and watching every person that passes you walk blindly directly into the path of a bus and die, yet you stand idly by and do nothing. You're just twiddling your thumbs, happy in the knowledge that one day that 'walk' signal will shine your way across the road.
Think about it. Imagine the horrors Hell must have in store if the Bible is true. You're just going to allow that to happen and not care about saving anyone but yourself? If you're right then you're an uncaring, unemotional and purely selfish (expletive) that has no right to talk about subjects such as love and caring."



Quoted with permission from Livingwaters.com

[LightDancer]

I don't believe we can know for sure who will go to Hell or not... so just keep trusting The Lord, live a good life and continue to be an example to all you come in contact with.

Jesus came to give us peace in our life and to share that with others.

[Nadiine]

Ray Comfort does talk about this in an excellent way, and my Bible teacher once said that the reason people don't witness more is because we don't really believe in hell like we should. It breaks my heart to think about what will happen, and I hope one day it will break it enough that I move out of my self-serving comfort zone and be a witness to get people off that path.

This is an excerpt of an e-mail to Ray from an atheist.
"You are really convinced that you've got all the answers. You've really got yourself tricked into believing that you're 100% right. Well, let me tell you just one thing. Do you consider yourself to be compassionate of other humans? If you're right, as you say you are, and you believe that, then how can you sleep at night? When you speak with me, you are speaking with someone who you believe is walking directly into eternal damnation, into an endless onslaught of horrendous pain which your 'loving' god created, yet you stand by and do nothing.
If you believed one bit that thousands every day were falling into an eternal and unchangeable fate, you should be running the streets mad with rage at their blindness. That's equivalent to standing on a street corner and watching every person that passes you walk blindly directly into the path of a bus and die, yet you stand idly by and do nothing. You're just twiddling your thumbs, happy in the knowledge that one day that 'walk' signal will shine your way across the road.
Think about it. Imagine the horrors Hell must have in store if the Bible is true. You're just going to allow that to happen and not care about saving anyone but yourself? If you're right then you're an uncaring, unemotional and purely selfish (expletive) that has no right to talk about subjects such as love and caring."

Quoted with permission from Livingwaters.com

Well, that type of letter as I percieve it is purely Satanic in seeking to push GUILT onto a Christian. God Saves Souls, we do not.
As if we're called to run out & go ahead of God just to feel like we're DOING something to 'save' people.
GOD sends us out where we will be used.

I also remember Jesus when He told the Father that his mission was over.
Jesus left this earth with MANY unsaved, and many that He didn't even speak with (ie. gentile nations etc).

Jesus knows more than all of us what hell is about & like -- He created the place. Why didn't JESUS scramble around flustered & panicked about the lost souls He couldn't reach?

God will reach every soul THAT WILL RESPOND TO HIS CALL for salvation. (& if you're a calvanist, there's really nothing to get paranoid about becuz only the saved WILL respond to God!).

I think this atheist should read John 17, Jesus' prayer in the Garden to the Father.

[neilius73]

'I don't think this is so. God is just and merciful."

Let's take a look at that statement shall we? What does God being just mean to you? To me it means that God must punish those who break His laws, the Ten Commandments.

Let's take a look at a hypothetical witness encounter. Let's say I'm witnessing to an unsaved person, using the law in my presentation of the Gospel message. Here's how it has typically played out in the past.

Me: Have you ever stolen anything, irregardless of value?

Unsaved person: Yes.

Me: What does that make you?

Unsaved person: A thief.

Me: Have you ever told a lie?

Unsaved person: Yep.

Me: What does that make you?

Unsaved person: A liar.

Me: Have you ever used God's name as a cuss word, or to express frustration or anger?

Unsaved person: Yes.

Me: This is a very serious offense called blasphemy. You have taken the name of the creator of everything in the universe, of you and me, and used it as a way to express anger and frustration.

Me: Have you ever looked at a woman and had a sexual thought about her?

Unsaved person: Oh yeah.

Me: Jesus said that any man who looks upon a woman with lust has comitted adultery with her alreadyin his heart.
Okay, so by your own admission, you are a thieving, lying, blasphemous, adulterer at heart and you have to stand before a holy and just God on Judgment Day. If God is just and must punish those who break His laws, where do you think you will end up, in Heaven or in Hell?

*Now anybody who is being honest will know that they are going to Hell, if God is just, because they have broken His laws.

Me: But God made a way for us to avoid going to Hell. He showed mercy by sending His son to die on a cross in our place, to take the punishment that we all have earned through our sin. So in order to receive the gift of salvation, you must repent of your sin, that means acknowlege that you are a sinner, confess it to God, tell him that you are sorry for the sin you have comitted, tell him you want to turn from that sin, and put your faith and trust in His son Jesus Christ, and you will be saved from God's wrath.

"We only have a temporal lifespan; eternal damnation, condemnation or judgement is not a just punishment/reward for such."

Yes it is. When you are shown that you have broken the laws of God, Hell is the punishment for breaking those Laws. That is God's standard, 'break my laws, go to Hell'. You earned it, all by yourself. Let's look at it another way. If you were standing before a judge and had been found guilty of breaking some laws in this country and told him in your defense, that you only broke a few laws, and that you were really a good person and your good deeds outweighed your bad deeds, would you really expect a just judge to let you go free? Just because you said you were a good person and you were sorry for what you had done? No! Of course not! Justice would not be served at all, if he just let you go. So why should we expect God to let us off the hook, just because we say we're sorry?

Following your line of thinking, Jesus didn't have to die on the cross to take our punishment. I mean, if God is just going to let us in to Heaven because He's so merciful, we don't need a savior. Because what are we being saved from? Without the law to convict you of your sin and show that you are guilty, the cross doesn't make any sense. If you have plaecd your trust in Jesus, why have you done so, if God is just mercy and love and is going to let you into Heaven regardless of what you've done in opposition to Him?

"Just my opinion. A lot of pastors, evangelists will use the 'Hell rap' to scare people into their religion. Be careful who you listen to."

Based upon your statements, I am going to beg you to reconsider your position on this whole doctrine of Hell. Jesus spoke more about Hell than He did about Heaven. Why do you think that is? Was He just trying to scare people into doing what is right? I don't think so.


We make our own afterlife. You'll see! Everyone gets saved in the end.

[Zecryphon]

We make our own afterlife. You'll see! Everyone gets saved in the end.
For us to even have an afterlife we need to repent of our sin and and put our faith and trust in Jesus Christ. The Bible is clear on this. Your statement suggests that it is by works that we earn an afterlife, which is a teaching that totally contradicts scripture.

[Nadiine]

We make our own afterlife. You'll see! Everyone gets saved in the end.
The bible doesn't teach universal salvation.
Mat 25:41 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mat/Mat025.html#41) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:46 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mat/Mat025.html#46) And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Rev 20:14 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Rev/Rev020.html#14) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Rev 21:8 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Rev/Rev021.html#8) But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Rev 19:20 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Rev/Rev019.html#20) And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet (human) that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Rev 20:10 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Rev/Rev020.html#10) And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Rev. 20:10 And the devil who decived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also (humans); and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Rev 20:15 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Rev/Rev020.html#15) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

John 17 Jesus says Judas was 'the son of perdition' and was LOST.

If we ALL end up saved, we have zero reason or incentive to OBEY God in this life when we make it to heaven despite our lifestyles.

[flyingsum0]

God's will is whats going to happen...it's as simplas that...we just need to have faith in Him and knwo in our hearts that He loves us and will ensure that Heaven is a place of Joy and Happiness not sorrow and grief.

[neilius73]

For us to even have an afterlife we need to repent of our sin and and put our faith and trust in Jesus Christ. The Bible is clear on this. Your statement suggests that it is by works that we earn an afterlife, which is a teaching that totally contradicts scripture.
I've read a lot of accounts of near death experiences, and it seems that the heaven and hell scenario is real. However, those that are lost or in 'hell' are there by misunderstandings or shame of going into the 'light', the fear originating from religious and very very wrong teachings about judgements et al.
What awaits us on the other side, i admit, we only get a glimpse of from such accounts as NDE's, but the same goes with the scriptures. Hell is a place without God, as im sure you agree; but isnt this life or this Earth a place without God?

[Nadiine]

I've read a lot of accounts of near death experiences, and it seems that the heaven and hell scenario is real. However, those that are lost or in 'hell' are there by misunderstandings or shame of going into the 'light', the fear originating from religious and very very wrong teachings about judgements et al.
What awaits us on the other side, i admit, we only get a glimpse of from such accounts as NDE's, but the same goes with the scriptures. Hell is a place without God, as im sure you agree; but isnt this life or this Earth a place without God?
I know a man right now who had a NDE, he said God told him the Bible was a lie. He's also into the occult.

So do I believe the Unsaved people's accounts of what happens after death? NO I do not.
I do not because of 1 thing, those NOT of God are susceptible to SATAN'S LIES and can be decieved by Satan in this vulnerable time of unconsciousness; being open to the spirit realm directly.
I do believe that God can intercept in this time, but He doesn't always do that.

I fully believe people do have contacts with the spiritul world & that there is an eternal life after death; but I Don't trust what they're shown/told/given when they're not born again thru Jesus Christ.

ANYTHING THAT DOESN'T LINE UP WITH GOD'S WORD, I THROW OUT AND REJECT. Always.

[Zecryphon]

"I've read a lot of accounts of near death experiences,"

Why?

"and it seems that the heaven and hell scenario is real."

Very real.

"However, those that are lost or in 'hell' are there by misunderstandings or shame of going into the 'light',"

Perhaps because the fear the judgment of God?

"the fear originating from religious and very very wrong teachings about judgements et al."

What is a wrong teaching about judgment?

"What awaits us on the other side, i admit, we only get a glimpse of from such accounts as NDE's, but the same goes with the scriptures."

What awaits me in Heaven will be all the more fascinating because it is somewhat hidden from us in the scriptures. But to even get there first, we have to repent of our sin and put our faith and trust in Jesus Christ. There is no other way. The scriptures are clear on that.

"Hell is a place without God, as im sure you agree;"

Hell is a place that exists because of God. A place where people will be separated from God. It's my understanding that the people in Heaven will be able to see the people in Hell and vice versa. See the story about the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:20-25.

"but isnt this life or this Earth a place without God?"

No because the earth itself is proof of God's existence. The Bible says "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

[neilius73]

"I've read a lot of accounts of near death experiences,"

Why?

"and it seems that the heaven and hell scenario is real."

Very real.

"However, those that are lost or in 'hell' are there by misunderstandings or shame of going into the 'light',"

Perhaps because the fear the judgment of God?

"the fear originating from religious and very very wrong teachings about judgements et al."

What is a wrong teaching about judgment?

"What awaits us on the other side, i admit, we only get a glimpse of from such accounts as NDE's, but the same goes with the scriptures."

What awaits me in Heaven will be all the more fascinating because it is somewhat hidden from us in the scriptures. But to even get there first, we have to repent of our sin and put our faith and trust in Jesus Christ. There is no other way. The scriptures are clear on that.

"Hell is a place without God, as im sure you agree;"

Hell is a place that exists because of God. A place where people will be separated from God. It's my understanding that the people in Heaven will be able to see the people in Hell and vice versa. See the story about the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:20-25.

"but isnt this life or this Earth a place without God?"

No because the earth itself is proof of God's existence. The Bible says "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."
People in Heaven can see people in hell?
For masochistic purposes or Sadistic?

It doesnt make sense at all.
I have read accounts that say the same about the bible(that it is a lie), but ive also read that (in nde accounts) that ALL religions contain some truths to them. Just Google Howard Storm, and read his account; An atheist in the extreme, that became Christian after his nde.
NDE's are not from the imaginary being called Satan.

[Nadiine]

People in Heaven can see people in hell?
For masochistic purposes or Sadistic?

It doesnt make sense at all.
I have read accounts that say the same about the bible(that it is a lie), but ive also read that (in nde accounts) that ALL religions contain some truths to them. Just Google Howard Storm, and read his account; An atheist in the extreme, that became Christian after his nde.
NDE's are not from the imaginary being called Satan.
Yep. Well, Satan tempted Jesus with scripture - he used some truth, but twisted another part of it to make it ultimately False. Some truth doesn't make anything completely True.

As far as seeing those people in hell, I think that's taken from Luke 16:19- the Rich man & Lazarus after death.

I believe that since Jesus' crucifixion, the believers of God no longer go to that same place they were kept after death.
I believe that now, they go to be WITH the Lord (absent from body, present with the Lord) - not that temporary holding place before the crucifixion.

But either way, I don't accept non Christian's 'ad' experiences as 'truth' because Satan is a liar & deciever and can very easily be lying to them in this unconscious state to make them THINK life is wonderul & beautiful after death -- when it indeed is NOT according to GOD.

I believe they DO see & hear these things, but that they're being lied to. When they recover, they'll be thinking their future life will be blissful & wonderful & there's nothing to fear after death when they haven't accepted Jesus Christ as their Saviour. :doh:

[Zecryphon]

People in Heaven can see people in hell?
For masochistic purposes or Sadistic?

It doesnt make sense at all.
I have read accounts that say the same about the bible(that it is a lie), but ive also read that (in nde accounts) that ALL religions contain some truths to them. Just Google Howard Storm, and read his account; An atheist in the extreme, that became Christian after his nde.
NDE's are not from the imaginary being called Satan.
"People in Heaven can see people in hell?"

Yes as related in those passages I refered you to.

"For masochistic purposes or Sadistic?"

You'll have to ask God that.

"It doesnt make sense at all."

Why not? Because you've always believed that Heaven is up and Hell is down? Did you read that in the Bible or hear that in a church? I believe the Bible more than I believe a person on the street or a pastor in the church.

"I have read accounts that say the same about the bible(that it is a lie), but ive also read that (in nde accounts) that ALL religions contain some truths to them."

The only truth is God and His plan as laid out in the Bible.

"Just Google Howard Storm, and read his account; An atheist in the extreme, that became Christian after his nde."

I know of a couple former atheists that became Christians, not necessarily after an NDE, but after trying to disprove the Bible. C.S. Lewis and Josh McDowell are two such examples.

"NDE's are not from the imaginary being called Satan."

No one has said they are and since it's been awhile since I've been fishing, thanks for the red herring. But now that you bring it up, why do you think Satan is an imaginary being?

[Tishri1]

For those who have just changed Icons, I realize it takes some time to get use to that and alter posting to fit CF rules but please begin to do that now...(PM me with any questions about that)
And also for those who have a Denominational Icon and didnt know this, we have restrictions for you, not to be mean but to create a place for ND's that is alittle more personal, like a fellowship hall or homegroup at any ND church. All the congregational forums are exactly the same in this area of CF. Here is where you can read about how to post in ND and any of the areas in this part of CF if you dont hold that congregation's Icon or attend one of their Churches

http://www.christianforums.com/t2936040-please-read-before-posting-.html

I would add, if you like the discussion enough to start a thread in GT and post a link to that thread here, we will join you over there where all of us can post freely

PM Me or Olive or SVT, if you have any questions about Icons and posting privileges, thanks people.....

[Scorcher505]

We can be happy because we know that we are loved by God and we are going to heaven. Yes we should be upset by other people not being saved and not going to Heaven, but you should not let it get you down.

[tonysma]

I do not dwell on this subject...I am confident that my family will be in heaven with me...that all of Gods people will make it back to him...My daily prayers include family and friends....After I thought about what you had said, I thought, true we wont know about their torment...but they will be aware of us..as usual my post is a ramble....lol