Slightly Baffled

[Marycita]

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this post, but I'm going to post it anyway.

I'm a fairly new Christian, and I recently decided to read the Bible from beginning to end so I know the whole story. But, some things that I have read strike me as odd. I'm not saying I'm doubting my faith, and I am certain that God has reasons for everything, but I just don't understand all the violence and killing. I'm currently reading the book of Joshua, and it just strikes me as incredibly contradictory to have so much killing, even if it is during a war. Does anyone else ever think this way?

~V

[whatfor]

I understand what you are saying, I am probably in the same position as you, being a new Christian reading the bible for the first time.

I tried to view it as being to do with the time and location that the story is set, it seemed rough they killed all including women and children.

[DLMoody]

This shows the effects of sin in this world and what it causes. I have struggled with the same thing but we must keep in mind that God is not the author of evil. This is the natural result of sin. The Bible records history and sometimes we have to view it as just that.
I'm not 100% though if this would be the correct answer but I think it is somewhere along those lines.

[Scorcher505]

In the Old Testamant God was a lot more judgemental than he is in the New Testament because the perfect sacrifice had not been made yet.

[Athanasian Creed]

In the Old Testamant God was a lot more judgemental than he is in the New Testament because the perfect sacrifice had not been made yet.

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

And the times of this ignorance. The long period when men were ignorant of the true God, and when they worshipped stocks and stones. Paul here refers to the times preceding the gospel.

God winked at. Overlooked, connived at; did not come forth to punish. In Ac 14:16, it is expressed thus: "Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways." The sense is, he passed over those times without punishing them, as if he did not see them. For wise purposes he suffered them to walk in ignorance, and to make the fair experiment to show what men would do; and how much necessity there was for a revelation to instruct them in the true knowledge of God. We are not to suppose that God regarded idolatry as innocent, or the crimes and vices to which idolatry led as of no importance; but their ignorance was a mitigating circumstance, and he suffered the nations to live without coming forth in direct judgment against them. (Barnes)


Ray :wave:

[prophecystudent]

There was so much evil, so widespread, in the old testament (kind of like today) that God instructed the people of Israel to take various actions. In some cases He told them to kill every living creature. In other cases He told them to do something less drastic.

As I recall, there is an explanation in the bible. It states (loosely quoted) that the evil was so intense that the only way to cleanse it was to destroy everyone in the town. The purpose was to stop the spread of evil so it would not infect the people of Israel. Kind of like drastic surgery to remove a cancer to keep it from spreading.

Hope this helps.

A word of advice? If you want to read the entire bible see if you can find a chronological bible. It has the various books of the bible in the historical sequence. It helps to understand. Also, I suggest you get a good study bible with explanations and comments.

The best one I have heard of is the Scofield Bible, but get the new one as it corrects some issues from an earlier copy.

I am in process of finding one for myself. Try Amazon.com as a start.

Fred

[DLMoody]

In the Old Testamant God was a lot more judgemental than he is in the New Testament because the perfect sacrifice had not been made yet.
There are a few mistakes in this statement...
1. God does not change. He does not become more or less anything.
2. God overlooked Israel's sin repeatedly time after time after time. If anything, God was too lenient in the O.T.
But He obviously wasn't. God is perfect and his attributes are immutable.

FOR THE ORIGINAL POSTER:
I recommend getting the Life Application NLT or NIV. It gives an overview of the History and each books topics, main characters, etc. I would also recommend you start readig the Gosepl of Mark. Best of Luck and God Bless!
-Greg

[Marycita]

I have a life application study Bible NLT actually...and I am still confused. Maybe I just don't understand how Jesus could come to earth and tell us all to be peaceful and loving and everything to everyone, when in the Old Testament, the opposite seemed to be accepted. Even from God...sorry to say, but He did kill a lot of people.

~V

[DLMoody]

I understand. This is a hard concept to grasp. Keep in mind though tha ultimately, with or without answer, God is sovereign over all His creation. We have to trust Him in everything.
How did you coe to knw Christ? Are you in a church?
Thanks for posting your questions!
In Christ,
Greg

[prophecystudent]

I have a life application study Bible NLT actually...and I am still confused. Maybe I just don't understand how Jesus could come to earth and tell us all to be peaceful and loving and everything to everyone, when in the Old Testament, the opposite seemed to be accepted. Even from God...sorry to say, but He did kill a lot of people.

~V


I understand your confusion. However, There was a long time span between when God was speaking to Israel thru Moses and other prophets and when Christ came to earth.

Christ came to fulfill the prophecies in the Old Testament, and to fulfill God's promises.

God sent His Son to pay the price for our sins and to draw us nearer to Him.

Different times, different requirements. That is about the only explanation there is.

God is perfect in His knowledge and in His plans. He knew what He was doing then, just as He knows what He is doing now.

Keep up with your studies, but I would suggest you start your reading with the New Testament, and remember that the bible, as arranged in most texts, is not written in chronological form. This can cause a lot of confusion to the reader, especially one new to the faith.

As others have recommended, start reading the 4 gospels then Acts and Romans.


Fred

[Marycita]

I have read the four gospels and I don't think reading them first would help me. I much rather read the Bible from beginning to end...and how could it be out of order chronologically...what was the point to that?

[Marycita]

D L Moody :
That story is an incredibly long one. And I am still looking for a church I feel at home in...try a new one every couple of weeks.

Forgive me for the double post...I am still trying to figure this out.

[DLMoody]

When they (the early Church fathers) were putting together the canon (the Bible) they decided to arange the books of the Bible in their appropriate groups. The Law, Poetry, The Prophets: Major; minor, the Gospels, etc.

[kenrapoza]

Hi there! :wave:

I think we all have felt the same as you when reading through the Old Testament. I may not have the best answer for you, but I will share with you the perspective that helped me. First let's take a couple quotes directly from the Old Testament that help to remind us about God Himself in the midst of the bloody history:

Ezek. 18:21-23:

"But if a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die. None of the offenses he has committed will be remembered against him. Because of the righteous things he has done, he will live. Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?" (NIV)

Ezek. 18:32:

"For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!" (NIV)

2 Chron. 16:9:

"For the eyes of the LORD range throughout the earth to strengthen those whose hearts are fully committed to him. You have done a foolish thing, and from now on you will be at war."

So we can see that despite the history recorded in the Old Testament, God was still looking for reasons to show mercy to people. So given the fact that God commanded certain acts to be committed I think the real question is this: What does this say about those people? Why were those people judged by God through Israel and not everyone? I don't think the question should be: What does this say about God?

To reconcile this altogether it helps to keep a couple things in mind. Recall the historical setting we are talking about. Many of the pagan societies that Israel fought against were so evil and barbaric that it is hard for us to imagine today. They offered child sacrifices to their idols. They practiced male and female prostitution in their temples as idol worship. The spread of evil was so pervasive that it could not be allowed to infect the nation of Israel. Evil spreads (and you will see many examples of how Israel got infected with it as you read through the Old Testament) and judgement had to be rendered, lest God's holy people are destroyed. Remember that God is the author and giver of life, He is justified in taking it when necessary because He is the one who gives it.

There were reasons for the violence in the Old Testament, it was not just wanton killing. Also, God was fulfilling a purpose with the nation of Israel and bringing them into the Promised Land.

God Bless! :)

[Marycita]

So how do I find out which order they would be in chronologically?

[DLMoody]

Some of that is debated by scholars but with that aside, you can pick up a Chronological Bible. I guess you can just get one at your local Christian bookstore. I don't personally have one but I would like to get one.

[Marycita]

Kenrapoza:
If people were killed because of sin, then shouldn't the people who killed them be punished as well (this is also why I am not a proponent of the death penalty.) If the Lord took no pleasure in the death of anyone, then why would anyone be killed, or die at all for that matter?

[DLMoody]

that's up for debate but I would say because of Genesis 9:6, "Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed; For in the image of God He made man."
I dunno if that helps...

[kogseeker]

I would say that there is a progressive revelation of God and his character in the bible. It is not that God changed over the years of history, but mankind's view of him that changed. These changes occurred until the coming of Jesus who, according to the scriptures, is the exact representation of God and his character -- of what God is really like.

I remember an incident that happened when I was in bible school. A young lady approached me one day and told me that she had prayed and God had told her that I was the man that she was to marry. God had told me no such thing, and I wasn't at all interested in her in that way. But she insisted that God spoke to her about me. Did he? Should I have accepted her opinion as "a word from the Lord" just because she was sure, just because she claimed to have had a revelation of God's will? Did she have an accurate understanding of God's will just because she claimed to?

The ancient Israelites believed in God to the best of their ability, according to the amount of revelation of him that they had at the time. But there is no denying that the Israelites came out of pagan cultures that involved blood sacrifices to appease the wrath of the gods. These pagan cultures also had wars with other tribes who had different gods than their own. "May the true god win!" Do we think that all of these ideas immediately fell away just because they became convinced that Yahweh was the true God?

I think it is much more reasonable to believe that though they tried to understand God as much as they could before Jesus brought the truest picture of him, they often got him wrong. I don't believe that God told them to kill anyone. Jesus never did. I don't believe that God told them to offer blood sacrifices. Jesus put an end to those. I don't believe that God gave them 613 laws to keep. Jesus said that loving God and loving others is enough. I don't believe God told them to kill their enemies. Jesus said to love one's enemies. Why the difference? Did God change when he became incarnate? Or did Jesus simply give us the clearest revelations of God known to mankind?

I believe that the ancient Jews simply misunderstood what God wanted during much of the OT period, just as my young lady friend misunderstood God's will for my life. But they had to attribute their fallible, human beliefs to some authority figure and God was convenient. The church did much the same when it once believed that slavery, witch-burning, and evil governments were "God-sanctioned." Turn on the tube and see how many "men of God" tell you exactly what God wants you to do or what God wants them to do for you. But don't believe them just because they have a "word from the Lord".

There is God...and then there is OUR UNDERSTANDING of God. The first is infallible. The second is not. And that is precisely why Jesus came -- to clear up much of the misunderstands of what God is like and what he really desires. "You have heard it said...but I tell you..."

If Jesus is the fullest revelation of God, as many christians claim him to be, then all other revelations of God must be compared to Christ and his teachings, not compared to Moses, David, Isaiah, or even the apostle Paul. None of these other folks are considered to be "God incarnate". Jesus, not Moses, is God's Word to mankind.

[pletho]

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this post, but I'm going to post it anyway.

I'm a fairly new Christian, and I recently decided to read the Bible from beginning to end so I know the whole story. But, some things that I have read strike me as odd. I'm not saying I'm doubting my faith, and I am certain that God has reasons for everything, but I just don't understand all the violence and killing. I'm currently reading the book of Joshua, and it just strikes me as incredibly contradictory to have so much killing, even if it is during a war. Does anyone else ever think this way?

~V
As a new believer i wondered also but as you may know in the new testament that it says God is light and in him is no darkness at all, that God is love, ect.. which seems to be contradictory but it's not. God in Genesis 3:15 speaking to the serpent (the adversary, the devil) that deceived eve and thus caused the fall of man by tricking them into disobeying God's specific commandment and let sin in the World. God in Gen 3:15
told the serpent the the woman would have a child and the child would bruise his the serpents head, the child they are speaking of is the Christ, the promised seed, the savior of the world who would eventually bring everything back in to order that adam messed up, by obeying God instead of what adam did disobeying God. Any way God is not a man that he should lie, he keeps his promises, the christ line genetically was promised to abraham, and to King david, so God in order to keep his promise defended the believers in him and the Christ line. See what we think of as love not always love as God would call love, in the new testament God is called a Father, any Father would defend any one attacking his family, or at least teach train, ect.. to defend themselves, old test believers were not Christians, but the devil was constatnly trying to stomp out the Christ line genetically and God Was protecting it in whatever way possible which was loving, God defines love not man that's where the problem, lives, in our understanding of what's loving. Bless, Steve

[Telrunya]

Well on the matter of killing I have to throw in that killing is not a sin, Murder is. God has sanctioned killing in the past. There were no prisons or jails in the mobile camp of the Israelites. They had to deal with people they couldn't let roam free. God decreed how these people were to be dealt with and though it may seem harsh on the person who commited the crime it was the best thing for the community. Also you must take into concideration what is happening there today. God commanded the Israelites to drive these people from the land and they didn't. See:

Exodus 23:31-33 "I will establish your borders from the Red Sea to the Sea of the Philistines, and from the desert to the River. I will hand over to you the people who live in the land and you will drive them out before you. Do not make a covenant with them or with their gods. Do not let them live in your land, or they will cause you to sin against me, because the worship of their gods will certainly be a snare to you."

[synger]

Another thing to keep in mind when reading the Old Testament is that the overall "story" is of God's relationship with His people. It is of His revealed will for them.

And, over and over, we see them fall away and have to be chastized before they repent and come back to him. They lived in a violent land, among violent people, and were violent themselves. It is part of our fallen nature that sin rules us like it does. Just as God speaks to us in ways we understand, He spoke to them in ways they could understand. They understood promise, and a land of their own, and settlement, and being fruitful and multiplying to become a great nation. And He was with them through every stumbling, toddler step of the way.

God brought them order, certainly, and that helped mold them into the people they became. But He also brought them relationship. If you look at other religions of the time, their deities were to be worshipped and feared... but also kept at arm's distance. God came down among His people. It was unheard of among ancient peoples.
Yes, it was all in preparation for the Messiah. But it was not without its own merit. God took one, obedient nomadic family and entered into covenant with them... and helped them grow (with many human stumblings along the way) into a mighty nation in which, in the fullness of time, Christ could be born.

That is one of the overarching themes of the Old Testament. Please do not allow the blood and violence of the history of God's stiff-necked people blind you to His love and revelation in guiding and teaching them.

[Marycita]

I just don't understand how there could be a commandment "Thou shalt not kill." And then sometimes it's okay...it should be all or nothing, yeah?

[kenrapoza]

I just don't understand how there could be a commandment "Thou shalt not kill." And then sometimes it's okay...it should be all or nothing, yeah?
The sixth commandment is not "You shall not kill" but "You shall not murder". There is a distinction between the two in the Hebrew and translations like the NIV render it properly in that fashion.

Recall Gen. 9:6 "Whoever sheds the blood of man,
by man shall his blood be shed;
for in the image of God
has God made man."

This was not a prophecy, it was a decree. The New Testament corroborates this.

Rom. 13:3-4 "For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

The Bible makes clear distinctions between capital punishment, unintentional manslaughter, and murder. Also, do you not have the right to defend yourself? If someone broke into your house and was going to hurt or kill your children and the only way you could stop them was to actually kill that person, would you just stand by or would you protect them?

I apologize if any of this sounds confrontational, it is not intended to. God Bless!!

[Marycita]

I am extremely sorry to keep bugging you fine people...I truly appreciate all your responses. Maybe I am having a hard time with this because I don't see a difference between killing and murder. Anywho - I really appreciate it! Thank you and I hope you all have a blessed day!

[synger]

Maybe I am having a hard time with this because I don't see a difference between killing and murder.

There is no need to apologize. You are in fine company. There is a whole branch of the Christian faith, the Anabaptists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabaptist), who traditionally has had non-violence as one of their doctrinal points. There are others among the Peace Churches (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_Churches). There are many Christians in all traditions who would agree as well. I'm a Presbyterian-raised, Lutheran-leaning Christian who would have to declare myself a conscientious objector (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscientious_objector) if I were called to serve as a soldier.

Others believe that the God-given authority of the government extends to capital punishment, but they draw the line at things like abortion.

It is not a new question. It is one of the age-old questions that Christians have always asked. It comes of our calling to serve others and to focus on God, while still living in (and to some extent participating in) a sinful, fallen world.

No matter where we fall on this question, however, we must not lose sight of the fact that God is sovereign, and that He loves us. The Bible, Old Testament and New, is full to overflowing with examples of God's love and mercy toward the fallen world. He loves even those He allows to be killed, though He may hate their sin.

I'm sorry that I cannot tell you, in a way that will satisfy your disquiet, why God told the Hebrews to rampage through the ancient Middle East as they did. But I do know that God is shown as merciful and just FAR more than He is shown as wrathful. God does not just stand idly by as His people suffer... He suffers, too. His wrath, when it does show, is almost always poured out as a reaction to violence begun by men. He does not delight in it.

He works in and through His people to redeem them. He bring them out of Egypt.. and that is how He is remembered by the Jews, not as wrathful. All the prophets, when they talk about the ideal, talk about peace, about beating swords into plowshares, etc.

I don't mean to preach. It's not my calling. But I wanted to encourage you that you are asking perfectly normal questions. And please do not let the trees blind you to the majesty and love of the forest.

[kenrapoza]

I am extremely sorry to keep bugging you fine people...I truly appreciate all your responses. Maybe I am having a hard time with this because I don't see a difference between killing and murder. Anywho - I really appreciate it! Thank you and I hope you all have a blessed day!
No, thank you for initiating the fine discussion! One more thing that comes to mind:

We may feel uneasy about God seemingly "ordering" the death of people in the administration of justice, but this is also the God who voluntarily submitted Himself to an unjust death at the hands of the Roman government when He had every right and every power to stop it. He truly identifies with all our suffering.

[BigNorsk]

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this post, but I'm going to post it anyway.

I'm a fairly new Christian, and I recently decided to read the Bible from beginning to end so I know the whole story. But, some things that I have read strike me as odd. I'm not saying I'm doubting my faith, and I am certain that God has reasons for everything, but I just don't understand all the violence and killing. I'm currently reading the book of Joshua, and it just strikes me as incredibly contradictory to have so much killing, even if it is during a war. Does anyone else ever think this way?

~V

Well what you have to remember is that the Old Testament is telling us the things that are more clearly revealed in the New Testament.

In Joshua, you have God's chosen people, the nation of Israel, about to receive the promised land. They receive purely through the power of God, not because they are strong or anything, it is God's work, received through their faith in Him.

Other's, those who are not God's people, have no place in the promised land. And so we see the killing of them all.

Now a couple of points. They were already dead having rejected God, and those who acted in faith, even in those who seemed to be condemned were actually saved by faith. I would use the example of Rahab who saved herself and her family by believing in God.

All this is a foreshadowing, we as Christians have a promised land, we call it heaven. And only God's people are going to receive it, not because they are so strong or good or anything but because of God's work they receive it through faith. We would call God's chosen people today the church.

And it is not that the door is closed, even those people who seem to be against God can still be saved even at the last moment as Rahab was saved.

And those who do not believe will experience the second death being cast in the lake of fire.

And just as people complain that it is not fair or right or just of God to have given the promised land to his people Israel. So too people complain that it is not right for God to give heaven to his people the church.

But note again Rahab, those people in the Promised land, they all knew about the Isrealites and they knew the stories and such and yet instead of trusting in God they trusted in their cities and their walls and their armies and their strength, just as people make the same mistake today.

It was all to show people how strong God is, how he keeps his promises and indeed to shut their mouths for they cannot really deny that there is a God and that the God of the Bible is He.

And so it is all a story to call people to repentance to put their trust in God and to receive his blessings.

Many will reject him, laugh really at those who do, and yet they will complain it is not fair when they condemn themselves.

Hope that helps you understand.

Marv

[Marycita]

I suppose I understand a little better now, and I think I am beginning to see the difference between killing and murder, but I don't agree that one is okay and one is not, but hey. (How's that for a run on sentence for ya,sorry.)

I really appreciate all your responses. I am glad to know I am not the only one who at some point had these questions and had to think about them.

God Bless you all!!

[epyon]

I also feel the came way and have been a chirstian

longer. So just say this doing in that history frame there

was alot of killing. The God has called fr the killing of

the enemy, animal, and also women and children. So say

to myself he alway have a plan that is far more complex

than what w humen think that is right and wrong.

[kenrapoza]

I suppose I understand a little better now, and I think I am beginning to see the difference between killing and murder, but I don't agree that one is okay and one is not, but hey. (How's that for a run on sentence for ya,sorry.)

I really appreciate all your responses. I am glad to know I am not the only one who at some point had these questions and had to think about them.

God Bless you all!!
Any honest person will have the same struggles, but we take comfort in that it is Jesus, the second person of the Trinity, that reveals the most to us about the charater of God. And who can't love a King who volutarily gives up his life so that you could know him for all eternity! God bless you in your walk.

[New_Wineskin]

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this post, but I'm going to post it anyway.

I'm a fairly new Christian, and I recently decided to read the Bible from beginning to end so I know the whole story. But, some things that I have read strike me as odd. I'm not saying I'm doubting my faith, and I am certain that God has reasons for everything, but I just don't understand all the violence and killing. I'm currently reading the book of Joshua, and it just strikes me as incredibly contradictory to have so much killing, even if it is during a war. Does anyone else ever think this way?

~V

This can happen when people focus on the "bible" instead of having a one-on-one relationship with the Lord . The Law kills - the Spirit gives life . That is in the Scriptures , as well .

[Janester]

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this post, but I'm going to post it anyway.

I'm a fairly new Christian, and I recently decided to read the Bible from beginning to end so I know the whole story. But, some things that I have read strike me as odd. I'm not saying I'm doubting my faith, and I am certain that God has reasons for everything, but I just don't understand all the violence and killing. I'm currently reading the book of Joshua, and it just strikes me as incredibly contradictory to have so much killing, even if it is during a war. Does anyone else ever think this way?

~V
I don't believe you're alone. It's hard for many to wrap their minds around the violence of war....whether in the OT or today.

I was listening to teaching by Greg Boyd where he stated that no matter what he reads in the Bible, it's always through the 'lens' that God is love and full of grace and mercy.

God's character doesn't change so at times, I'm simply left saying....I don't know what all that was about but I know Your character and I trust that. I'm never going to understand everything unless God chooses to reveal it to me (after death?) but what He has revealed is His character through the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus.

[linssue55]

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this post, but I'm going to post it anyway.

I'm a fairly new Christian, and I recently decided to read the Bible from beginning to end so I know the whole story. But, some things that I have read strike me as odd. I'm not saying I'm doubting my faith, and I am certain that God has reasons for everything, but I just don't understand all the violence and killing. I'm currently reading the book of Joshua, and it just strikes me as incredibly contradictory to have so much killing, even if it is during a war. Does anyone else ever think this way?

~V

"There will be wars and rumors of wars until I come again." IF it were up to God there NEVER would be wars, killings, or murders.

OUR Old Sin Nature is at fault, and God gave ALL of us free will, AND the devil is the ruler of this world. There is reasons for everything, you are a new baby in Christ, just remember when you don't understand some of the word, is because the Lord wants you to learn, to grow more first. Just KNOW that the Lord has a plan and the plan MUST follow through, and ALWAYS accept the word.

Your understanding will come more and more as you grow more teeth to take it in. The child is born with no teeth, as he ages, and with more understanding from the teaching of the parent, he grow's. When the teeth comes out the parent gives the child samll portions of meat to chew on. They first lay there, ......then crawl, then scoot, then make attempts ts to get up, and eventually walk. In time they become stronger and can take on more LEARNING that the parents provide.

But with the child, the parents do not give them the keys to drive the family car, for this is WAY ABOVE their skills to understand and do. So does the Lord. We ALL start out as babies. BUT as we grow, we TOTALLY put our trust in our parents to provide and take care of us, and TRUST them to provide what we need WHEN the time comes, when they know we have the mental and physical ability's to handle it. So the Lord does the same.

TRUST in the Lord, HE know's what He is doing, and He will provide at the right time. So in the meantime, we TRUST our parent, and BELIEVE that "Everything works together for good for them that trust in HIM."

RELAX.......History MUST play out, the Lord know's all, and is in control of the situation, His REASONS are JUST, and PERFECT. ALWAYS, ALWAYS know there is a reason for all He does or allows. Don't get stuck on any certain subject (this halts growth), WHEN you are ready the Lord will GIVE you the understanding you seek. Until then, just keep growing. You are doing fine, we ALL start out the same way. TRUST in the Lord, He IS our parent.

[Marycita]

This can happen when people focus on the "bible" instead of having a one-on-one relationship with the Lord . The Law kills - the Spirit gives life . That is in the Scriptures , as well .
I wouldn't say that I am focusing on the Bible rather than a relationship with Jesus, I just know that the Bible is a way to get closer to Him, and so I read it. And, I can't not read it.

[ranyhyn]

I think it's quite natural for us to be unable to grasp the fullness of God's plans for man. We were created by God for His enjoyment. The whole precept of our creation was so we could commune with God forever. But even in the earliest parts of the Old Testament we have deceit and such. The fall of man starts the cascade.

Long before the Ten Commandments were given to Moses there was a murder and lying and such. Cain murdered his own brother. Family disputes erupted because of lying and deceit. At the time of Noah man had become so wicked that the only way God saw fit to continue on was to rid the world of that wickedness.

And what happened after that? More of the same. The Israelites were enslaved by the Egyptians and eventually set free. But because they didn't fully trust God they had to wander around for 40 years. They were given the Promised Land but they had to take possession of it. At God's commands they crossed over and took control of the land. They constantly disobeyed God and He would back off and let them have their just rewards. Then a Judge / deliverer would be sent. Things would improve for a while and degenerate back to hostility and such.

Throughout history man has fought man and that continues even today. We are told that all life is precious. But we are not to question God's plan. If we are directed to do something as being "God's will" we are to obey. It's better to obey than to sacrifice. God gets no delight out of watching man kill man. That's why we're commanded not to kill one another.

I've never had the qualm over how God could tell us not to kill and yet direct a war where hundreds of thousands of people get killed. So in that regard I can't say that I know where you're coming from. I have been a supporter of the death penalty ever since I can remember but in a way I'm starting to lean away from it. I haven't changed my mind at this point but I've had some serious questions arise in my thought process that have to do with whether it's right or wrong.

The most important thing is for us to trust that the Lord's plan is the right plan for us. He's in control and as said above we just have to let things play themselves out. Dark days are to come again but once our Lord returns the second time we'll all get to sing in heaven and worship in His glory and grace. After our Lord's return we won't have to worry about killing, murder, pain, etc ever again. And that's what we should be looking forward to...His return and our trip Home...

[Nadiine]

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this post, but I'm going to post it anyway.

I'm a fairly new Christian, and I recently decided to read the Bible from beginning to end so I know the whole story. But, some things that I have read strike me as odd. I'm not saying I'm doubting my faith, and I am certain that God has reasons for everything, but I just don't understand all the violence and killing. I'm currently reading the book of Joshua, and it just strikes me as incredibly contradictory to have so much killing, even if it is during a war. Does anyone else ever think this way?


It doesn't strike me funny at all - WELCOME TO THE FALLEN WORLD.

THIS is the result of rebellion against God! What you read is the horrible result.
IF Adam & Eve had only abided in the Lord's love and 1 simple command NOT to eat of 1 tree in that garden, THIS CONSEQUENCE WOULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED.

But don't forget the bloody, violent and hateful treatment JESUS received when He came (in His love of all humanity) to save us.

What makes me MORE upset is the sacrifice and harm that came to all the many animals becuz of man's sin & man's inhumanity to them.

This is exactly why I look so forward to God returning to rule when sin is put away and He's ruling over everything.
NO MORE DEATH or suffering or sorrow, or pain or tears.

I long for the day! :angel: :holy: :bow: