Utility of Holy Spirit Baptism [Archive]

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nikolai_42

8th July 2003, 07:52 PM

Andrew

8th July 2003, 09:45 PM

I do not believe that one must be baptised in the Holy Spirit to operate in the 9 supernatural gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Smith Wigglesworth, for example, already had a powerful miraculous ministry going on for many years b4 he received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

But he did become even 'mightier' for God after that. One significant change his wife noticed was his preaching.

My wife received Word of Knowledge in the form of visions many times even b4 she received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues. She has only recently (last week in fact) begun to speak in tongues, after several years of resistence to it.

That said, I do believe that the 'norm' or 'facilitator' into the supernatural usu starts with the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, and wld encourage all believers to seek the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

:)

nikolai_42

13th July 2003, 05:59 PM

Andrew

14th July 2003, 10:40 AM

Okay, then what would you say is (bottom line) the main purpose for the baptism of the Holy Spirit?

I'd still say it is for empowerment for ministry, esp evangelising.

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

It has also been said that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit helps the Christian understand the Bible better or makes the Bible come alive, more real to them. This can be attributed to:

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

A third point is that one becomes closer and more familiar with the Holy Spirit -- no longer an "it" to them but truly the third PERSON of the trinity. They become more open and sensitive to the moves of the Spirit too, His operations, powers etc. In short, they enter into the realm of the supernatural.

Contrast this to the life of the traditional Christian who doesn't believe in tongues, the gifts/moves of the Spirit etc, or who even if he does, does not want anything to do with them, either out of fear or just indifference.

:cool:

nikolai_42

14th July 2003, 03:33 PM

I'd still say it is for empowerment for ministry, esp evangelising.

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

It has also been said that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit helps the Christian understand the Bible better or makes the Bible come alive, more real to them. This can be attributed to:

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

A third point is that one becomes closer and more familiar with the Holy Spirit -- no longer an "it" to them but truly the third PERSON of the trinity. They become more open and sensitive to the moves of the Spirit too, His operations, powers etc. In short, they enter into the realm of the supernatural.

Contrast this to the life of the traditional Christian who doesn't believe in tongues, the gifts/moves of the Spirit etc, or who even if he does, does not want anything to do with them, either out of fear or just indifference.

:cool:

Thank you, Andrew. That has got to be the best description I've heard on any board of the role of the Holy Spirit in our lives. I'm kinda surprised that there aren't more responding the same way (or with other ideas, even!).

Andrew

15th July 2003, 12:51 AM

Thank you, Andrew. That has got to be the best description I've heard on any board of the role of the Holy Spirit in our lives. I'm kinda surprised that there aren't more responding the same way (or with other ideas, even!).

thanks. :) what I shared is not unique. Its the usual things said about hte Holy Spirit in charismatics books, circles, friends, sermons, etc.

But that said, there are three foundational ministries of the Holy Spirit that every believer should be familiar with even b4 they start looking for the spectacular and supernatural.

These must be established in the heart of the believer first b4 he can be more sensitive to the Holy Spirit's direction.

I need to go out now so I'll elaborate on this when I return.
:wave:

SpiritPsalmist

15th July 2003, 11:31 AM

I think that many people do not have a very thorough understanding of the Holy Spirit. I'm not saying that I have all the understanding there is but I'm learning. God is so vast though I think we will spend eternity learning Him.

I pretty much much agree with Andrew.

The job of the Holy Spirit is to point to Jesus and in my life He is continuously pointing me to Jesus. When I allow Him to pray through me He is praying for my inner man. . .the bottom line of me. . .and I am changed as a result. I'm being molded day by day into more of a reflection and image of Him. . . the author and finisher of my faith.

Yes, we can pray for ourselves but if we only pray according to what we understand. . .in our own language then we only pray what we understand. . .which in my opinion is not enough. But, that's just my opinion. :)

Andrew

15th July 2003, 10:11 PM

Ok as I promised:

What does "bear witness" mean? When we go to court and tell the judge: "I didn't kick the dog." and we have a witness. The witness then "bears witness" with our statement or action, and either says "Yes that's true" or "No that's not true".

So, what are the 3 main things the Holy Spirit "bears witness" with our spirit?

1. That we have eternal life in Christ the Son of God.

1 John 5
10Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

Many Christians are still wondering if they have eternal life. Some think it only comes after they die -- and if they make it to heaven!

If the Holy Spirit is indeed in them, He will bear witness with Truth No 1, and the believer ought to sense that in his spirit.

2. That we are children of God.

Romans 8
15For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." 16The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.

This is the 2nd witness of the Spirit. Sadly, some Christians do not even know they are a child of God. They hesitate to call themself a "child of God" becos they believe in lies like OSNAS. They are not really sure they have eternal life yet (Truth No 1) so they can't really call themselves "child of God". Some even say that all humans are "children of God" (humanism). There is no diff between them and the world. But child of God means more also -- it points to that very close and intimate Father/Abba/Daddy-God relationship we have. But some Christians even think it sacrilegious to call God "Daddy-God". Jesus came to reveal the name "Father" to us, not El Shaddai or Jehovah Jireh.

3. That our sins are no longer remembered or recorded!

Hebrews 10
15The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this...
16*"Their sins and lawless acts
*******I will remember no more."

The Holy Spirit does not remind us of our sins and condemn or judge us for them. The voices in our head making us feel lousy and condemned when we fail is the devil not the Holy Spirit. However, many Christians think the Spirit's role is to point out their faults or that of others. Many believers still think that God keeps an account of their sins, hence the need for confessions, sacraments etc to re-clean themselves! Or the belief that only their past sins were borne in the body of Christ.
:)

hal weeks

16th July 2003, 02:47 PM

I am so blessed to find this forum where there are so many posts that seem to be reading my mind.
I can only add my exerience of when I received the baptism in the Holy Spirit. It is too lengthy to post here but can be read at:
http://home.san.rr.com/healing/mystory.hrm

Heinrich

16th July 2003, 06:04 PM

When you are born again you are baptized in the holy spirit.
Before this you do not have the holy spirit living in you. And you are not a christian.

All the gifts are manifestations of the holy spirit as he pleases..
So how can somebody do these works if he does not have the spirit in him?

But.. What most of the times happen is. We get born again but them nothing really happens.. Then later on when we ask the spirit he comes and "fills" us.

Like when you get born again it's like drinking a glass off water.. you're not thirsty anymore and it feels great.. But it's only enought water.
Then when you ask the spirit (or just let him) he throws you in a river :-)

This is what I believe.

You do not have to be baptized in water before you can have the gifts.. Although it helps. (O yes I believe in full immersion with understanding and repentince not baby sprinkling...)

Heinrich2

17th July 2003, 01:50 PM

As things go I read Acts 8:14-17 just after making that post.
I'm sorry.
So it seems you don't recieve the Holy Spirit directly after becoming reborn?

Andrew

17th July 2003, 10:09 PM

Yes you do! When you are saved, the Holy Spirit certainly comes in and resides in you -- and the Bible says forever!

John 14
16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever--
17***Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

But when one is Baptised in the Holy Spirit, the Spirit is not just resident but president over you. ie He has more of you.

I believe the disciples were "born again" when Jesus breathed on them and said "Receive ye the Holy Spirit" after his resurrection. But they were soaked into the Spirit on Pentecost.

Debi

17th July 2003, 10:18 PM

Debi

18th July 2003, 10:27 PM

/what the Holy Spirit "brings":

Purpose of the baptism of the Holy Spirit

I cor 12:13

Eph 4:3-6

Eph 4:30

Acts 2:43

debi

hal weeks

19th July 2003, 12:42 PM

In my case, when I was baptized in the Holy Spirit I received three prizes. The first prize was going from knowing about Jesus to knowing Him personally. The second prize was deliverance from spirits of fear and doubt. The third prize was being healed of terminal cancer without medical help. See for details: http://home.san.rr.com/healing/mystory.htm

hal weeks

21st July 2003, 03:27 PM

The disciples, who were already filled with the Holy Spirit needed Pentecost or Jesus would have told them what to do to get. Peter went from a winp to a tiger for the gospel.

admtaylor

9th August 2003, 11:16 PM

Ok, I'm battling this right now. Trying to come to an understanding of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. The one thing that concerns me is there are only a handful of verses concerning this and most of them refer to the Day of Pentecost. How come this isn't mentioned more often after that time? If this is needed to give the Holy Spirit control of your life, why isn't it mentioned more heavily throughout the NT? Wouldn't God want everyone to have this so that The Word would spread?

I don't want to make the wrong decision on this because I fear the ramifications of that. I read what's written on the subject on both sides and both sides make sense. But, like I said, the side for it seems to have very little scriptural evidence of it. Yes I believe in the Holy Spirit and his role in my life, but I don't know if I believe that I need to do another thing to ask Him to control my life. Get it?

didaskalos

10th August 2003, 12:31 AM

Do you believe one MUST have been baptized by/in the Holy Spirit to heal, cast out demons etc...? What do you believe the utility of the baptism is?

If you believe it is necessary to have the baptism to do the above works, could you explain why using scripture. If not, could you explain why. Also, explain what you believe the Holy Spirit brings (in the baptism).

There are two "baptisms" which are involved here. One is the Baptism into Christ, the other is the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.

The baptism into Christ is when you are born again. You partake of the death burial and ressurection of Jesus from the dead. Being born again you are now a partaker of the devine nature and are one with Jesus. It is this baptism that enables you to have a prayer language and it is the faith of this new spirit in you that enables you to cast out devils and prophesy. Romans 6, 2 Cor 5, 1 Cor 14, Mark 16

The baptism with the Holy Spirit is the enduement of power. Here you receive a spiritual gift such as Gifts of Healings or Diversities of Tongues. This is different from the above baptism into Christ and is intended to mature and build up the spirit of Christ in you.
1 Cor 12

Debi

10th August 2003, 06:51 AM

Eph 4::4 The is one body,and one Spirit,even as ye are callled in one hope of your calling; v5 one Lord, one hope, ONE BAPTISM

There are two "baptisms" which are involved here. One is the Baptism into Christ, the other is the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.

The baptism into Christ is when you are born again. You partake of the death burial and ressurection of Jesus from the dead. Being born again you are now a partaker of the devine nature and are one with Jesus. It is this baptism that enables you to have a prayer language and it is the faith of this new spirit in you that enables you to cast out devils and prophesy. Romans 6, 2 Cor 5, 1 Cor 14, Mark 16

The baptism with the Holy Spirit is the enduement of power. Here you receive a spiritual gift such as Gifts of Healings or Diversities of Tongues. This is different from the above baptism into Christ and is intended to mature and build up the spirit of Christ in you.
1 Cor 12

didaskalos

10th August 2003, 08:25 AM

Eph 4::4 The is one body,and one Spirit,even as ye are callled in one hope of your calling; v5 one Lord, one hope, ONE BAPTISM

Hi Debbie.
I love Ephesians!
There are numerous baptisms discussed in scripture.

Heb 6:2 And we shouldn't need to keep teaching about baptisms or about the laying on of hands or about people being raised from death and the future judgment.

Which baptism was Jesus talking about here?
Mar 10:38 But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?
Luk 12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

The point is this. The term "baptism" is just a generic term. It simple means to be submerged into something whether it be water, spirit, or Holy spirit. Eph 4:4 is referring more to the single instance of what is commonly called Christian baptism or baptism into water that all believers (gentile and jew) partake of.

There are actually 3 baptisms we deal with:
In Water
Into Christ
With the Holy Spirit

What about this one?
Luk 3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

It appears that the baptism of John is only one of the baptisms:
Act 18:25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.

This guys needed more:
Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

They needed to be baptized into Christ by believing into His death burial and ressurection. (Rom 6)

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Debi

10th August 2003, 01:54 PM

Hi Debbie.
I love Ephesians!
There are numerous baptisms discussed in scripture.

Heb 6:2 And we shouldn't need to keep teaching about baptisms or about the laying on of hands or about people being raised from death and the future judgment.

Which baptism was Jesus talking about here?
Mar 10:38 But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?
Luk 12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

The point is this. The term "baptism" is just a generic term. It simple means to be submerged into something whether it be water, spirit, or Holy spirit. Eph 4:4 is referring more to the single instance of what is commonly called Christian baptism or baptism into water that all believers (gentile and jew) partake of.

There are actually 3 baptisms we deal with:
In Water
Into Christ
With the Holy Spirit

What about this one?
Luk 3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

It appears that the baptism of John is only one of the baptisms:
Act 18:25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.

This guys needed more:
Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

They needed to be baptized into Christ by believing into His death burial and ressurection. (Rom 6)

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
there is only two baptism mentioned in the bible. before the holy spirit, there was water baptism, the baptism of John, for repentance. For the church, there is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, Water is just an outward sign. See I or II pt. Spiritual Baptism or the baptism of the holy ghost/spirit but us into the body of Christ/Saved.

Debi

10th August 2003, 02:00 PM

Hi Debbie.
I love Ephesians!
There are numerous baptisms discussed in scripture.

Heb 6:2 And we shouldn't need to keep teaching about baptisms or about the laying on of hands or about people being raised from death and the future judgment.

Which baptism was Jesus talking about here?
Mar 10:38 But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? Spiritual baptism/holy Ghost or Holy Spriit
Luk 12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! Same here

The point is this. The term "baptism" is just a generic term. It simple means to be submerged into something whether it be water, spirit, or Holy spirit. Eph 4:4 is referring more to the single instance of what is commonly called Christian baptism or baptism into water that all believers (gentile and jew) partake of.

There are actually 3 baptisms we deal with:
In Water
Into Christ
With the Holy Spirit

What about this one?
Luk 3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins; Water baptism, before the baptism/infilling of the holy spirit

It appears that the baptism of John is only one of the baptisms:
Act 18:25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.

This guys needed more:
Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. This is at the time the gospel of grace began and water baptism was not longer needed rather Spiritual baptism. These gentile/jews were baptist with water but needed Spiritual baptism for salvation into the kingdom of God.. This was a transitional period between the preaching of the gospel of the kingdom and the gospel of grace
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

They needed to be baptized into Christ by believing into His death burial and ressurection. (Rom 6)

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Once again this is speaking of Spiritual baptism. That is how we are baptized into Christ.
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

PastorJoe

17th October 2003, 06:27 PM

Smith Wigglesworth, for example, already had a powerful miraculous ministry going on for many years b4 he received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.I have had a discusion about Smith Wigglesworth going on elsewhere, but saw your post and thought I would aks a question.

My brother, it is the double cure you want. It is saving and cleansing and the baptism of the Holy Ghost till the old man shall never rise anymore; till you are absolutely dead unto sin and alive unto God by His Spirit, and know that the old things have pased away. When the Holy Ghost gets possession, there is a new man entirely -- the whole being becomes saturated with divine power. We become a habitation of Him who is all light, revelation, all power, and ll love, Yea, God the Holy Ghose is so manifest within us that it is glorious.
So, then would you agree with SW that we do not experience the resurrection power of Jesus until a second experience of BHS?