Baptism

[firestar]

Thanks Eirene for sparking this question (from the WD thread) ;)

I am aware that they baptised in the OT but what did it entail and why did they do it? I guess I'm interested to understand:

*has "mainstream" Christianity twisted the meaning of baptism?

*from a Messianic pov, what role does baptism play in the life of the believer?

I come from the school of thought that teaches that baptism is an outward action or declaration of dying to our sins/flesh, and being resurrected a new creation and signifies your commitment to God.

[HadassahSukkot]

This should help some: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikvah

http://jesus-messiah.com/html/mikveh.html
http://sg.geocities.com/shenlan.geo/mikveh.html
http://www.bethemunah.org/lifecycles.htm
http://www.sci.brooklyn.cuny.edu/~mtwersky/immer.htm

[HadassahSukkot]

Mikveh is something very important. Something done each time you are ritually unclean; after a mourning period (such as death); for holidays and Shabbat.. but also in Conversion to the faith.

Generally (from my understanding) women and men are immersed seperately; and the conversion mikveh is vastly different from that of ritual uncleanness.

Here is some information on prayers traditionally said:

http://www.beliefnet.com/prayeroftheday/more_prayers.asp?paid=25&faid=5


For conversion (i'm unsure how old this is, but the records I have found, are pretty old...)

O God, you are the Fountain of Life! I enter this Mikveh as an expression of my commitment to immerse myself in the faith of Israel and in the waters of Torah. Even as our ancestors crossed the sea on their pilgrimage to Sinai, may my Tevilah (immersion) nurture my resolve to take shelter under the wings of the Shekhina and seal my devotion to a life of Torah. Avodah and Gemilut Hasadim (learning, worship and deeds of justice and kindness).


For normal use:


Take a few moments for silent personal reflection before continuing and entering the Mikveh.

"With pure waters will I purify you, that your life be pure and blameless. A new heart will I give you, and a new spirit I will place within you. I will direct you in my teachings. and you shall keep my statutes. You shall be my people, and I will be your God. " (Ezekiel 36:25-28)

Enter Mikveh, take deep breath, immerse completely and remain under water for a few moments.
Stand, take a breath. And say the blessing:

Barukh atah Adonai Eloheinu melekh Ha'olam, asher Kidshanu b'mitzvotav v'tzivanu al ha-tvilah.

Blessed are you, Eternal God, ruler of the universe, who sanctifies us through mitzvot and has enjoined us concerning immersion.

Dunk a second time!
Stand, take a breath. And say the blessing:

Barukh atah Adonai, Eloheinu melekh Ha'olam, sheh-hecheyanu, v'kiy'manu, v'higianu, la-zman ha-zeh.
Blessed is the Eternal, the God of all creation, who has blessed me with life, sustained me, and enabled me to reach this moment.

Dunk a third time!
Stand, take a breath, and recite:

Shema Yisrael, Adonal Eloheynu, Adonai echad.

HEAR O ISRAEL, THE ETERNAL OUR GOD, THE ETERNAL IS ONE!

[firestar]

Very interesting... thanks for the links! The only one I didn't read was the last one- the link didn't work.

[HadassahSukkot]

hm, strange that one didn't work. It mainly consisted of the prayers but also has links to other things about prayers and the mikveh.

Maybe if you try going in directly to the area of Judaism: http://www.beliefnet.com/index/index_10005.html

[firestar]

LOL... that's what I get for being lazy and not clarifying... I meant this link http://www.sci.brooklyn.cuny.edu/~mtwersky/immer.htm

The beliefnet one I hadn't even seen yet when I posted what I did. ^_^

[HadassahSukkot]

aha.

well that one is strange. I thought you could mean that one.. but weird.

Maybe it will work better if I copy/paste here from this snippet:

Immersion and Washing

Each day, before the Kohanim could enter the Azarah (http://www.sci.brooklyn.cuny.edu/~mtwersky/mik3.htm), they were required to immerse themselves in a Mikveh. Then they did Kiddush Yadayim V'Raglayim. This involved the washing of the hands and feet with water from the Kiyor. The Kiyor was a copper vessel with ten spouts. Standing next to the spouts, the Kohain would place his hands on his feet and while the water was flowing, he would gently rub his feet with his hands. Optionally, the Kohain could use a vessel containing water from the Kiyor. This was the method used by the Kohain Gadol on Yom Kippur.

On Yom Kippur, the Kohain Gadol washed his hands and feet (Kiddush) before each time he removed one set of garments and after he donned another set. He changed his garments five times during the day. Thus, he washed his hands and feet ten times during the day. He also immersed himself in a Mikveh during each change of garments for a total of five Tevillos.

source: http://www.sci.brooklyn.cuny.edu/~mtwersky/immer.htm

[firestar]

aha.

well that one is strange. I thought you could mean that one.. but weird.

Maybe it will work better if I copy/paste here from this snippet:

source: http://www.sci.brooklyn.cuny.edu/~mtwersky/immer.htm

Thanks!

As for the part where it says:

On Yom Kippur, the Kohain Gadol washed his hands and feet (Kiddush) before each time he removed one set of garments and after he donned another set. He changed his garments five times during the day. Thus, he washed his hands and feet ten times during the day. He also immersed himself in a Mikveh during each change of garments for a total of five Tevillos.

Isn't Kiddush the cup that you drink the wine from?? Maybe it's a spelling/pronunciation thing, but here at work on Shabbat eve when I serve dinner I have to give one gentlement the kiddush cup, and he prays over it. So is kiddush here a different word altogether?

[firestar]

Oh and I wanted to comment that I LOVED what I read about the water needing to be "Living Water"! God is so good :)

[firestar]

ooopss... another question (sorry :sorry: )

I remember reading somewhere in the OT that the waters of purification needed to have special ingredients, among which one was hyssop. Now I am big into natural health, and I know that hyssop contains thymol and carvacrol which is antibacterial, antiviral, antiparasitical and antifungal... so it makes wonderful sense that God would instruct His people to use it for cleansing. So my question is this... was the water of purification only used by priests or would it not have been used for cleansing for touching a dead body etc... for anyone aka... the hyssop added to the mikveh? Why is the fresh/living water alone used for mikveh today?

[Athaliamum]

The process for the mikvah comes from here:

Num. 19:1-10
"And YHVH spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying, This is the ordinance of the Torah which YHVH hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke: And ye shall give her unto Eleazar the kohein, that he may bring her forth without the camp, and one shall slay her before his face: And Eleazar the kohein shall take of her blood with his finger, and sprinkle of her blood directly before the tabernacle of the congregation seven times: And one shall burn the heifer in his sight; her skin, and her flesh, and her blood, with her dung, shall he burn: And the kohein shall take cedar wood, and hyssop, and scarlet, and cast it into the midst of the burning of the heifer. Then the kohein shall wash his clothes, and he shall bathe his flesh in water, and afterward he shall come into the camp, and the kohein shall be unclean until the even. And he that burneth her shall wash his clothes in water, and bathe his flesh in water, and shall be unclean until the even. And a man that is clean shall gather up the ashes of the heifer, and lay them up without the camp in a clean place, and it shall be kept for the congregation of the children of Israel for a water of separation: it is a purification for sin. And he that gathereth the ashes of the heifer shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even: and it shall be unto the children of Israel, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among them, for a statute for ever."

Cedar was the wood used in the construction of the House of Solomon and the Temple (1 Kings 4:1 - 7:12). Cedar could be said to symbolize the dwelling place of Adonai as He resides among the Israelites.

Hyssop was used to apply the blood of the Passover lamb to the doorframes (Exodus 12:22). It became a tool by which the blood of forgiveness was applied for the people of Adonai. This idea is found throughout scripture as we read David speaking of hyssop being used in association with forgiveness (Psalm 51:7). Hyssop was also used at the crucifixion of Yeshua (see John 19:29).

Scarlet is more accurately defined as scarlet wool (see Hebrews 9:19). A piece of scarlet wool or thread was tied to the Temple door when the scapegoat was sent into the wilderness (Isaiah 1:18). "Crimson yarn called 'tola'at shani,' literally 'red dyed wool,' refers to the dye extracted from a 'crimson worm,' the kermes bilicus, and used in the weaving of the sacred garments of the Kohein Gadol and the inner curtains of the Tabernacle (Exodus 36:8, 35, 37; 39:1,2).

These three items -- cedar wood, hyssop, and scarlet -- are also used in the purification ritual for the disease of tzara’at. It is interesting that this is the only other time that this combination of "ingredients" are used.

To sum up: Hyssop was included in the red heifer sacrifice to symbolize the act of purification through the blood sacrifice. The red wool symbolized the intercession of the Kohein Gadol (who had red wool in his garment) before Adonai in the Tabernacle. The curtain that separated the Holy Place from the Holy of Holies contained red wool. Thus, the red wool is symbolic of intercession. Finally, the cedar wood was a major component in the Temple structure and symbolizes rulership in Adonai’s House.

To go through the complexities of the red heifer itself, which is the main and most important "ingredient", would take a little longer to explain.

[HadassahSukkot]

ooopss... another question (sorry :sorry: )

I remember reading somewhere in the OT that the waters of purification needed to have special ingredients, among which one was hyssop. Now I am big into natural health, and I know that hyssop contains thymol and carvacrol which is antibacterial, antiviral, antiparasitical and antifungal... so it makes wonderful sense that God would instruct His people to use it for cleansing. So my question is this... was the water of purification only used by priests or would it not have been used for cleansing for touching a dead body etc... for anyone aka... the hyssop added to the mikveh? Why is the fresh/living water alone used for mikveh today?
I missed the latter part of your post.

Ritual purification may be a reason one mikvehs, as well as the spiritual aspect of it.

It is said that the disciples of Y'shua were of the sect of Pharisees that immersed twice daily, In the morning and in the evening hours. (not in accordance with how we reckon days, but in accordance with the Bible/Judaism.)


Several things one would need to be purified from:

Leprosy
Skin lesions that aren't leprosy
Illnesses that involve "issues" (blood or other bodily fluids)
Death (people, animals)
menstruation
sexual activities
childbirth

Among others that I can't think of off hand.

An interesting thing many people miss, but I found "by accident" one time looking for something else...

Jer 17:13 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Jer/Jer017.html#13) O YHVH, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, [and] they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken YHVH, the fountain of living waters.


Now I was looking for a correlation to the passage where Y'shua writes in the dust in the story about the woman caught in adultery (the crux of the issue is not that Y'shua abrogated the commandment; but that the teachers sought to catch him doing so, and in so doing they negated bringing the MAN who was also caught. (plus, what were they doing watching!?))...

Their names were written in the dust...

But also in this passage something that is completely hidden by the english in the first part of the verse.


Where it says "hope of all Israel" - the Hebrew actually says MIKVEH of all Israel. Check behind me with E-sword, a Tanakh or Blueletterbible, I don't mind. :)

The strong's number is [04723] (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/words.pl?book=Jer&chapter=17&verse=13&strongs=04723&page=) <-- clicky de link :)

and where it says "they have forsaken YHVH" -- the Hebrew has something VERY interesting..

Et-YHVH (aleph, tav (hyphen) yud, hey, vav, hey).

Et-YHVH is none other than Y'shua; just as "Et" (aleph tav/alpha Omega) is YHVH Y'shua!


So, now; with that knowledge, are we so suprised at the passage with the woman at the well.. or mentions of the Ruach HaKodesh & Baptism...?

[HadassahSukkot]

Another really cool one I found (recently) was in Ezra 10:2. Now in english it isn't impressive at all and people would be like "you're totally reading into that! Faker!" or something like that ;)

But if you check the Hebrew (and the OJB translation has this awesomely done) - it says:

And Shechanyah ben Yechiel, of the Bnai Elam, answered and said to Ezra, "We have been unfaithful to Eloheynu, have married foreign am ha'aretz women; yet now there is mikveh for Yisroel in spite of this..."

There is hope yet for redemption and cleansing from this unrighteousness and ritual impurity.

A new covenant was cut with G-d and the women were seperated from their husbands; and as tradition has it, only those who chose G-d that day, stayed.


Another good Passage is Jeremiah 14:8
Jer 14:8 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Jer&chapter=14&verse=8&version=kjv#8)O the hope [Mikveh] of Israel, the Saviour [Yesha] thereof in time of trouble, why shouldest thou be as a stranger in the land, and as a wayfaring man [that] turneth aside to tarry for a night?


There are others, and more strong's numbers to the word Mikveh, so I usually will look it up by the Hebrew with E-sword and work from there. ;)

[plum]

Thanks!

As for the part where it says:

On Yom Kippur, the Kohain Gadol washed his hands and feet (Kiddush) before each time he removed one set of garments and after he donned another set. He changed his garments five times during the day. Thus, he washed his hands and feet ten times during the day. He also immersed himself in a Mikveh during each change of garments for a total of five Tevillos.

Isn't Kiddush the cup that you drink the wine from?? Maybe it's a spelling/pronunciation thing, but here at work on Shabbat eve when I serve dinner I have to give one gentlement the kiddush cup, and he prays over it. So is kiddush here a different word altogether?
I understand Kiddush to be the blessing said over the wine. Not sure why it's in parentheses at the point of ritual washing...

[HadassahSukkot]

Aha, found it...

"al pi kiddush haShem" (for the sanctification of G-d's Holy Name)