Have you all ever heard of this? Interesting stuff.

[tall73]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_East_&_Abroad

A selection from it:


The believers state that they depend upon their scriptures, traditions, revelations and the magisterium of the Church for their faith, morals, practices and customs. They believe it is their duty to guard over the original faith of Jerusalem and have created an organization known as Guardians of Jerusalem, e.g., they observe both Sunday and the Sabbath (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbath), the Kosher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosher) food and Torah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torah) observance. They claim to be the original church, and refer to nominal Christian churches by the name Klal Kristiani (i.e. all of anti-Semitic Christian groups), which they teach is corrupted, westernized, paganized and anti-Semitic.

I have no idea what to make of these claims. But I would say from a messianic standpoint it would be well worth looking into. This may be the historical continuity claim.

[plum]

wow I've never heard of them at all actually... thank you for perking up my interest!

[AbiYah]

I have never heard of these people.. sounds.. interesting and strange

[HadassahSukkot]

hm, I just found a website about them:
http://www.nestorian.net/guardians/index.php

Looks like it might be very interesting...

[Victrixa]

Hmmm sounds like a Christian Orthodox church.... Have you posted this in TAW (The Ancient Way - Orthodox Christians) forum as well to see what they know about this particular group? :)

[HadassahSukkot]

The more I read it does look Orthodox Christian, but then again not...

The key thing that tipped me off to it "not" being that way was the following:


Avoid the Services of Klal Kristiana
It is the duty of a Guardian to avoid the assemblies of the ungodly, of the heathen, of Klal Kristiana and of the rest of the heretics, lest by uniting ourselves to them we bring snares upon our own souls; that we may not by joining in their feasts, which are celebrated in honor of demons, be partakers with them in their impiety. You are also to avoid their public meetings, and those sports that are celebrated in them. For a Guardian ought not to go to any of those public meetings. Abstain from all of their public meetings, spectacles and all shows belonging to demons.
source: http://www.nestorian.net/guardians/rule.php


And


That we are to Avoid Discourse, Dialogue and Fellowship with Klal Kristiana
and False Brethren While they Continue in their Wickedness
If any one who calls themselves a brother or sister is seduced by the evil one, and acts wickedness, and is convicted and condemned to death as an adulterer, or a murderer, depart from him, that you may be secure, and none of you may be suspected as a partner in such an abominable practice; and that no evil report may be spread abroad, as if all Mshikhanim took a pleasure in unlawful actions. Wherefore keep far from them. But assist with all diligence those that for the sake of Mshikha are abused by the ungodly and shut up in prison, or who are given over to death, or bonds, or banishment, in order to deliver your fellow-members from wicked hands. And if any one who accompanies with them is caught, and falls into misfortune, they are blessed, because they are partakers with the martyr, and is one that imitates the sufferings of Mshikha; for we ourselves also, when we oftentimes received stripes from Caiaphas, and Alexander, and Annas, for Mshikha's sake, "went out rejoicing that we were counted worthy to suffer such things for our Savior." Do you also rejoice when you suffer such things, because you shall be blessed in that day.

and


That we Keep all the True Feasts of the Lord and the Holy Church of Yerushalayim,
and Abstain from the False Observances of Klal Kristiana
Shunning their Practice as Pagan Fabrications to the True Faith
The Guardians hold to the observance of the ancient Apostolic and Semitic Church of Yerushalayim. This is why we observe the Mitzvoth as given to Mosha, whey we follow the Halakha of Mshikha, why we observe Shabbat. It is why we keep the fasts and feast of the ancient Semitic Church and not the Roman creation. Guardians do not observe the fasts and feasts of Klal Kristiana, and openly preach the correct dates and practices of the Holy Church of Yerushalayim.


The "Kalal Kristiani" are the "Christian Churches"... I am aware of some Aramaic and some things I am reading on the rules page is sending up red-flags to me....

It does remind me in some ways of the WWCoG (World Wide Church of G-d) In that one must be subject to all rules and regulations and not deviate... yadda yadda... or they will be excommunicated etc.

I was looking and looking and thought "yay they keep the feasts, at least that's an upswing!" and saw that they are also taking Sunday as shabbat.


Guardians will Observe the Lord's Day as a Day of Instruction and Catechesis
Where the Shabbat is the day of Holy Observance, the day of rest as prescribed by the The Holy Peshitta, and is the day of worship, the 1st day, called the Lord 's Day...


Of all the highs and lows, that was the least thing I expected to see after all the talk about not being pro- this and pro- that which most Messianics do agree with.

It seems this group is a kind of schism in and of itself.

It does merit more investigation though, these were the things I saw and went "eek" over. Your mileage may vary. ;)

[Victrixa]

Sounds like they're a variety of things, then.... :)

[praiseyhvh]

I have not heard of this group either but I think it is worth me looking into.

[plum]

am I allowed to say ti seems a bit cultish? :)

[HadassahSukkot]

I was dancing around that myself... :P

[Sephania]

Never heard of them , but a quick perusal through stuff posted here leads me to think firstly , the Sect at Qumran, then similarly separated themselves from those in Jerusalem, pretty much assigning the same 'attributes' to them as well.

[Sephania]

am I allowed to say ti seems a bit cultish? :)
This seems to look that way:

The believers state that they depend upon their scriptures, traditions, revelations and the
magisterium of the Church for their faith, morals, practices and customs


mageisterium=
Magisterium (from the Latin magister, "teacher") is a technical ecclesiastical term in Catholicism referring to the teaching ability and authority of the Pope and those Bishops who are in union with him. According to Catholic doctrine, the Magisterium is able to teach or interpret the truths of the Faith, and it does so infallibly within the Sacred Magisterium.

Mine would be the Holy Spirit I wonder whose theirs is? :scratch:

[tall73]

It is certainly true that in many ways they are similar to, and claim common descent from the
Assyrian Church of the East.

Of course, some of the St. Thomas Christian churches kept the Sabbath for centuries too. But this looks like they keep even more than that, and even if they have some things that disagree with MJ teaching, it does show that there are apostolic groups who have held to these tenets from the beginning. If I understand it correctly, they are in an unbroken chain of those who have kept Torah, Sabbath, the feasts, etc. ever since the time of the apostles. That is huge,. That is something that many say is non-existant.

[HadassahSukkot]

True, it is something that some claim is non-existant.. it's the variant itself that would really disqualify it from being "Messianic" due their teachings.

I'm not sure it would really fall into "Hebrew Christian" either; probably better under the Syriac Church/Orthodoxy...?


Traditionally, Messianic Judaism holds the Scriptures as True; but also the biblical observances of those things therein the scriptures. (Torah Observance/Obedience for simplicity)...

You tend to find things more along the old (really old) Nazarenes hold something closer to what we do..