View Full Version : Why Theotokos?
contriteheart
8th January 2007, 12:27 AM
Given Orthodoxy's penchant for having liturgies in the local language (for the most part), why do you retain the Greek title 'Theotokos' in your liturgy, etc. Why not translate it?
-Grace
Oblio
8th January 2007, 12:32 AM
Simply because it can't be translated accurately into English.
c.f. Amen, Alleluia, Hosanna
Ilian
8th January 2007, 12:37 AM
We do not use the Greek term.
zebu
8th January 2007, 12:44 AM
Because God-bearer sounds a bit awkward. Besides, Ilian is right, lots of people do translate it. In Russian it "Bogoroditsa" is used, for example.
Eusebios
8th January 2007, 02:03 AM
In the Romanian Archdiocese PArish that I attend occasionally, it is often translated "Birthgiver of God". I personally find this a bit awkward. There is no confusion with the term Theotokos, just as Oblio points out with Amen, etc.
In p,
Eusebios
:bow:
repentant
8th January 2007, 02:29 AM
I think it's because it's more like a name given to her, as opposed to just a title. I don't know though. Like if your name is Ahmed, how would you tranlate that? In English, you would just be called Ahmed.
choirfiend
8th January 2007, 02:34 AM
At one monastery close by, they say it in English and full English written on their icons instead of ICXC or MPOV. It is a little awkward to sing, though. I think we just know what it means and use it, like Greeks refer to her as Panagia most often.
Dewi Sant
8th January 2007, 03:00 AM
Theotokos means (roughly)
Theo - God
Tokos - Bearer
It is a title given to Mary to emphasize the divinity of Jesus the Christ.
buzuxi02
8th January 2007, 03:33 AM
In the Greek Orthodox book of the holy week services which has greek and english side by side. Many times Theotokos is translated as Mother of God, they should leave it untranslated.
Ioan cel Nou
8th January 2007, 05:01 AM
In the Romanian Archdiocese PArish that I attend occasionally, it is often translated "Birthgiver of God". I personally find this a bit awkward. There is no confusion with the term Theotokos, just as Oblio points out with Amen, etc.
In p,
Eusebios
:bow:
That's because they're clearly doing a direct translation from Romanian. We always say Nascatoare de Dumnezeu, which is exactly 'Birthgiver of God' (actually, I think 'She who gave birth to God' would be better but that's even more unwieldy). When we refer to her in English, however (we do some of the Liturgy in English), we call her Theotokos because, as you say, 'Birthgiver of God' sounds odd in English, even if it is far more accurate than 'Mother of God' - a phrase I think we are best avoiding when talking to heterodox as many of them take it to mean something other than what it does.
Nascatoare de Dumnezeu, whilst it might look long and unwieldy to an English speaker really isn't for a Romanian. It's always going to be relatively easy to say when the word for always in your languge is intotdeauna. The Coke signs were an eye opener when I first started learning Romanian!
James
nikolayalexandroff
8th January 2007, 06:21 AM
Because God-bearer sounds a bit awkward. Besides, Ilian is right, lots of people do translate it. In Russian it "Bogoroditsa" is used, for example.
As far as I know, nearly all Church Liturgical and Theological terms in Church Slavonic were invented by our Byzantine Enlighteners St Cyrillos and Methodios and their disciples. This is a serious problem nowadays, because Church Slavonic is difficult to understand for many people, but translated in modern language, texts of Divine Services look very awkward indeed.
rusmeister
8th January 2007, 06:46 AM
I have an old Orthodox prayer book, circa 1947, that uses "Mother of God". That's the version of "Bogoroditsa Deva" that I use ("Hail, Mary, Mother of God...") I don't see a problem with it as long as you're clear what exactly "Mother of God" means - which is also necessary with the Greek word.
Ioan cel Nou
8th January 2007, 07:24 AM
I have an old Orthodox prayer book, circa 1947, that uses "Mother of God". That's the version of "Bogoroditsa Deva" that I use ("Hail, Mary, Mother of God...") I don't see a problem with it as long as you're clear what exactly "Mother of God" means - which is also necessary with the Greek word.
I don't have a problem with using it in your prayers or with other Orthodox Christians, either (though I don't use it myself, as I always say Nascatoare de Dumnezeu or Theotokos, as appropriate), because we all know what we mean by it. The problem comes when you use it when talking to certain heterodox who will often wilfully misunderstand it as a title aggrandising the Theotokos to the point of divinity rather than the Christological statement it actually is. Personally, I just think that the term is best avoided in such, often hostile, circumstances.
James
Knowledge3
8th January 2007, 10:24 AM
I thank God for the English language of NKJV and olde English.
I don't like modern or contemporary english.
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